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Title: Good and Bad at the same time - Mega entities hold $ 14 billions in Bitcoin Post by: Flexystar on August 28, 2023, 02:59:56 PM Reading through the coin desk's newsletter today I came across news about Robin Hood and it's holding analysis. Apparently the HOOD company has reached Top #3 in the list of who holds the most Bitcoin in the world.
Current stats: Binance : ~ $6.3 billion Bitfinex : ~ $4.3 billion Hood : ~ $ 3.0 billion That's a lot of money under one roof of each entity mentioned above. It should make us think whether this is good or bad to Bitcoin economy? Since these much Bitcoin are under their custody they have full control of it and we have already seen what happens when such entities get hacked for their data leak. The case of FTX is the biggest lesson for us. However, having that much significant amount can also be good for bitcoin economy since it is in holding for long terms. It is like having that much less Bitcoin in the circulation. It may or may not have an effect on the demand and supply but I wanna ask, does it have any? Quote Robinhood Revealed to be Third-Largest Bitcoin Holder With $3B in BTC Source: Robinhood Revealed to be Third-Largest Bitcoin Holder With $3B in BTC (https://www.coindesk.com/markets/2023/08/28/robinhood-revealed-to-be-third-largest-bitcoin-holder-with-3b-in-btc/)Robinhood transferred some 118,300 bitcoin to the wallet from several other smaller wallets over a three-month period. Investing and trading platform Robinhood (HOOD) holds over $3 billion in bitcoin (BTC) in a single wallet that attracted the holdings over several months, wallet data from Arkham Intelligence shows. This makes it the third-largest bitcoin holder behind crypto exchanges Binance and Bitfinex, which hold $6.4 billion and $4.3 billion worth of tokens on single wallets respectively. The wallet previously gained notoriety among market watchers in the past few months as the identity of its owners sparked conversations and concerns about who the mysterious owner of such a large amount of bitcoin could be. As of Monday, Robinhood has not publically commented on these holdings. The transfers sparked speculations ranging from the bitcoin holdings belonging to financial behemoth BlackRock, which filed for a Bitcoin ETF earlier this year, to crypto exchange Gemini shifting its users’ holdings to a wallet. Robinhood transferred some 118,300 bitcoin to the wallet from several other smaller wallets over a three-month period, data shows. These tokens are custodied by crypto trading firm Jump Trading, Arkham representatives confirmed to CoinDesk in a Telegram message. All of these holdings are held on the Bitcoin blockchain. The first transactions were made on March 8, after which huge amounts of bitcoin were transferred until July 14, data from BitInfoCharts show. Meanwhile, the holdings shed light on the extent of Robinhood’s bitcoin exposure despite low crypto trading volumes on its platform. Title: Re: Good and Bad at the same time - Mega entities hold $ 14 billions in Bitcoin Post by: avikz on August 28, 2023, 04:01:38 PM Very valid statement it is! But I see more bad in that compared to the good. It's like the real world wealth distribution inequality. That shouldn't have happened with Bitcoin at least. With such large holdings of Bitcoin, these entities do hold the power to manipulate the market at any point of time.
Even the government can step in and cease their holdings if any time the government wants to disrupt the crypto market. Really concerning! Title: Re: Good and Bad at the same time - Mega entities hold $ 14 billions in Bitcoin Post by: dimonstration on August 28, 2023, 04:10:42 PM I think it’s more on bad side since the distribution of supply is prone to manipulation. This company is holding Bitcoin for personal gain while the market will be heavily affected in case something bad happened to them just like what you stated or if they started to take profit.
It's really nice to see whales have confidence to accumulate Bitcoin but not this level that it controls massive coin that can affect the market badly. Is there any data available on when they start accumulating and if they use exchange to slowly purchase their holdings? Title: Re: Good and Bad at the same time - Mega entities hold $ 14 billions in Bitcoin Post by: Faisal2202 on August 28, 2023, 04:25:41 PM Dear you said, what will happen if these three companies got hacked and then used the example of FTX. I think you are mistaken as FTX was not hacked or anything else instead it was bankrupted due to less liquidity or some other types of scams.
And it does not really mean that these amounts are not in circulation because these amounts are in the liquidity pools from which traders are making there trades. I hope you do understand that the assets they have are in circulation and not in there holdings. But you can say that, the inflow and outflow almost remain equilibrium. And to be honest if we look at the bad side then the impact will be a lot more than the FTX but still market is open for everyone and any exchange or any entity if have the potential to buy a lot of BTC then no one could actually stop them. But still there are pros and cons to everything but con here is for temporary time so chill and observe them. Title: Re: Good and Bad at the same time - Mega entities hold $ 14 billions in Bitcoin Post by: ZAINmalik75 on August 28, 2023, 05:43:14 PM That's a lot of money they are holding, but the overall market value of BTC is around 509 billion dollars, and compared to that, these $14 billion dollars are nothing. But the thing that puts some pressure on the community is the bankruptcy and downfall of these three exchanges. As a lot of people are using these exchanges. The trading volume of these exchanges is huge, and their downfall could put the market in the hands of manipulators.
One more thing: can we really say for sure that these entities are the biggest BTC holders because there are people who are totally under the radar and no one knows about them? I think it’s more on bad side since the distribution of supply is prone to manipulation. This company is holding Bitcoin for personal gain while the market will be heavily affected in case something bad happened to them just like what you stated or if they started to take profit. Having more BTC in a few people's hands does generate manipulation, but the market is open to everyone, and they have the full authority to sell and buy BTC. But in my opinion, these BTC they are holding are the golden eggs or Gloden Goose, and why would they kill the golden goose? While they could get golden eggs from it. If they lose the BTC, then they are the dumbest people, but they could also buy it again.Title: Re: Good and Bad at the same time - Mega entities hold $ 14 billions in Bitcoin Post by: Fiatless on August 28, 2023, 06:25:23 PM That's a lot of money under one roof of each entity mentioned above. It should make us think whether this is good or bad to Bitcoin economy? Since these much Bitcoin are under their custody they have full control of it and we have already seen what happens when such entities get hacked for their data leak. The case of FTX is the biggest lesson for us. FTX went bankrupt because of mismanagement by Sam Bankman-Fried' and this problem led to FUD that affected the price of Bitcoin and altcoins. But the price of bitcoin recovered after a few months. My prediction will still be the same, if anything happens to any or all of these top investors, the price will drop and recover after some time. And it does not really mean that these amounts are not in circulation because these amounts are in the liquidity pools from which traders are making there trades. I hope you do understand that the assets they have are in circulation and not in there holdings. But you can say that, the inflow and outflow almost remain equilibrium. I don't get your explanation that the coins are not in the custody of these exchanges. Any circulation of bitcoin between or within any centralized is in the custody of these exchanges. Although you have access to assets these exchanges are the holders or custodians. Any coin that is in circulation outside a decentralized wallet cannot be said to be in circulation.Title: Re: Good and Bad at the same time - Mega entities hold $ 14 billions in Bitcoin Post by: Yatsan on August 28, 2023, 06:47:10 PM That's a lot of money under one roof of each entity mentioned above. It should make us think whether this is good or bad to Bitcoin economy? Since these much Bitcoin are under their custody they have full control of it and we have already seen what happens when such entities get hacked for their data leak. The case of FTX is the biggest lesson for us. FTX went bankrupt because of mismanagement by Sam Bankman-Fried' and this problem led to FUD that affected the price of Bitcoin and altcoins. But the price of bitcoin recovered after a few months. My prediction will still be the same, if anything happens to any or all of these top investors, the price will drop and recover after some time. And it does not really mean that these amounts are not in circulation because these amounts are in the liquidity pools from which traders are making there trades. I hope you do understand that the assets they have are in circulation and not in there holdings. But you can say that, the inflow and outflow almost remain equilibrium. I don't get your explanation that the coins are not in the custody of these exchanges. Any circulation of bitcoin between or within any centralized is in the custody of these exchanges. Although you have access to assets these exchanges are the holders or custodians. Any coin that is in circulation outside a decentralized wallet cannot be said to be in circulation.Title: Re: Good and Bad at the same time - Mega entities hold $ 14 billions in Bitcoin Post by: TimeTeller on August 28, 2023, 06:47:33 PM That's a lot of money they are holding, but the overall market value of BTC is around 509 billion dollars, and compared to that, these $14 billion dollars are nothing. But the thing that puts some pressure on the community is the bankruptcy and downfall of these three exchanges. As a lot of people are using these exchanges. The trading volume of these exchanges is huge, and their downfall could put the market in the hands of manipulators. One more thing: can we really say for sure that these entities are the biggest BTC holders because there are people who are totally under the radar and no one knows about them? I think it’s more on bad side since the distribution of supply is prone to manipulation. This company is holding Bitcoin for personal gain while the market will be heavily affected in case something bad happened to them just like what you stated or if they started to take profit. Having more BTC in a few people's hands does generate manipulation, but the market is open to everyone, and they have the full authority to sell and buy BTC. But in my opinion, these BTC they are holding are the golden eggs or Gloden Goose, and why would they kill the golden goose? While they could get golden eggs from it. If they lose the BTC, then they are the dumbest people, but they could also buy it again.Such amount from these top holders are indeed small as compared to the overall market value of BTC. However, as you said, any bankruptcy from any of these big companies will surely put some wave on the market. It may not be long lasting but at such point, it will make a mark. And will give some disturbance for such time. We have seen a lot of ups and downs in this market, and yet, btc always come back to where it was, and still growing stronger. It may be owed to the fact that the existence of this market is not dictated by any big company, or any government or authority. Hence, it can stand independently from all these entities surrounding this market. No any group can topple this market. Title: Re: Good and Bad at the same time - Mega entities hold $ 14 billions in Bitcoin Post by: livingfree on August 28, 2023, 07:29:18 PM 50:50 on it.
50 like it's good for mass adoption and there's really no way to increase the adoption but through these bigger financial corporations. 50 as it's worrying if they dump continuously. They may not be able to dump all at once or have a single blow but they'll surely be able to find ways to dump if they have to. Title: Re: Good and Bad at the same time - Mega entities hold $ 14 billions in Bitcoin Post by: arwin100 on August 28, 2023, 09:53:27 PM Very valid statement it is! But I see more bad in that compared to the good. It's like the real world wealth distribution inequality. That shouldn't have happened with Bitcoin at least. With such large holdings of Bitcoin, these entities do hold the power to manipulate the market at any point of time. Even the government can step in and cease their holdings if any time the government wants to disrupt the crypto market. Really concerning! For having that statistic maybe we can say that its more alarming to see that they have the volume acquired since if anything happens to them automatically it can affect the market. But we cannot do anything with it as those entities are big companies and the only thing we can do is atleast they remain safe from possible attacks or thinking that they will not do any crazy things like running away since they can create big impact negatively to the price of bitcoin. Title: Re: Good and Bad at the same time - Mega entities hold $ 14 billions in Bitcoin Post by: carlfebz2 on August 28, 2023, 09:59:26 PM Very valid statement it is! But I see more bad in that compared to the good. It's like the real world wealth distribution inequality. That shouldn't have happened with Bitcoin at least. With such large holdings of Bitcoin, these entities do hold the power to manipulate the market at any point of time. Just as expected on which on the time that these big players/institutions/companies/government would be able to realize that holding Bitcoin would be worth then they would be no doubt on using up their financialEven the government can step in and cease their holdings if any time the government wants to disrupt the crypto market. Really concerning! capability to take over or the advantage in the entire market which it isnt really that a shocking move or actions that they are doing.It might seems that they dont care but they are actually accumulating in silent. Sooner or later if these big companies and institutions would be starting on accumulation because it do really symbolizes that having more would be having that greater power and dominance then for sure it would be making out that huge impact when they do start on trying to hype on everything specially if they do decide with those Bitcoin ETF's approval. Therefore, for us shrimps or retail traders or investors then its better to go with the flow and accumulate while they are really that still accumulating because anytime soon those positive bullish news would just come out unexpectedly which it is really that a casual buy high sell low with these companies or simply entities. Title: Re: Good and Bad at the same time - Mega entities hold $ 14 billions in Bitcoin Post by: hatshepsut93 on August 28, 2023, 10:16:11 PM That's a lot of money under one roof of each entity mentioned above. That's not a lot, it's actually surprisingly low. 14B is less than 3% of total supply. And they control it but don't own it, since it belongs to their customers. Even if you add Microstrategy, Coinbase and other giants, it seems that the majority of all coins is held in private wallets, as they should be. Title: Re: Good and Bad at the same time - Mega entities hold $ 14 billions in Bitcoin Post by: Don Pedro Dinero on August 29, 2023, 04:43:32 AM Anyone complaining that these mega-entities have too much bitcoin should also complain about the price. And I don't mean complaining because it is now low for our expectations, but because without these entities the price would be much lower. Apart from entities like MicroStrategy that buy bitcoin to hold it by reducing the supply, the likes of Binance provide a liquidity and ease of exchange that without them the price would probably be below $1,000. Apart from the fact that I don't know how the price could be reliably calculated if the exchanges were basically P2P.
Title: Re: Good and Bad at the same time - Mega entities hold $ 14 billions in Bitcoin Post by: inthelongrun on August 29, 2023, 05:12:16 AM Yes, a total of $14 billion bitcoin in just 3 exchanges is very huge. But then again, the market capitalization of bitcoin right now is more than $500 billion. So that $14 billion is like 2% of the current bitcoin valuation. These big exchanges may influence the price of bitcoin but probably only in the short term period.
This information tells us that the crypto market is still too young and low. The largest stock brokers in the world right now are the Vanguard Group and Charles Schwab with $8 trillion each while Fidelity Investments at #3 has $4.5 trillion. Title: Re: Good and Bad at the same time - Mega entities hold $ 14 billions in Bitcoin Post by: Yamane_Keto on August 29, 2023, 07:33:17 AM What is the point of mentioning the numbers in dollars, the price of bitcoin changes almost daily, which makes the difference in thousands of dollars, but if we assume that they own 118,300 bitcoins, then when $LUNA collapsed 98%, they had more than 80,000 bitcoin, and the Robinhood platform has investments in more fields than bitcoin.
Luna Foundation Guard (LFG), the non-profit organization holding Terra’s bitcoin reserves, confirmed on Monday morning that it had sold over 80,000 BTC over the past week to acquire TerraUSD (UST) in an attempt to defend its crumbling U.S. dollar peg. I have read this quote elsewhere At the end of June, Robinhood's customers owned about $4.2 billion in Bitcoin, along with another $7.3 billion in other cryptocurrencies such as Ether and Dogecoin, the company said in its earnings report earlier this month. They have $4.2 billion in Bitcoin versus $7.3 billion in other cryptocurrencies, which means if something bad happens to Robinhood, the impact on Ether and Dogecoin will be very catastrophic. Title: Re: Good and Bad at the same time - Mega entities hold $ 14 billions in Bitcoin Post by: passwordnow on August 29, 2023, 09:48:00 AM Anyone complaining that these mega-entities have too much bitcoin should also complain about the price. And I don't mean complaining because it is now low for our expectations, but because without these entities the price would be much lower. Apart from entities like MicroStrategy that buy bitcoin to hold it by reducing the supply, the likes of Binance provide a liquidity and ease of exchange that without them the price would probably be below $1,000. Apart from the fact that I don't know how the price could be reliably calculated if the exchanges were basically P2P. That's the hard reality without them the market wouldn't grow vastly. We have to embrace this reality that's happening that no matter how decentralized is the goal of Bitcoin, we can't stop these entities from holding large amounts because they're able to. Thus, this is for everybody, and them is part of everybody. If we're just able to invest billions like them, why not let this market alone circulate into individuals without them being part of it. But, that's not how it goes and whether we like it or not, these big corporations are always gonna be part of the revolution and innovation of the crypto market.Title: Re: Good and Bad at the same time - Mega entities hold $ 14 billions in Bitcoin Post by: Lucius on August 29, 2023, 10:55:07 AM That's not a lot, it's actually surprisingly low. 14B is less than 3% of total supply. And they control it but don't own it, since it belongs to their customers. Even if you add Microstrategy, Coinbase and other giants, it seems that the majority of all coins is held in private wallets, as they should be. Exactly, these are the funds of their clients that are there because they trade with them, but there are probably also those who use these companies as banks, which is definitely not recommended. However, if you were to add up all the BTC that are in custodial wallets, you still get millions of coins that are at risk of being hacked or seized at any time. It would be ideal for everyone to use non-custodial wallets, and to trade via DEX, but that is something that is hard to expect considering that people mostly choose simplicity at the expense of privacy and security. Title: Re: Good and Bad at the same time - Mega entities hold $ 14 billions in Bitcoin Post by: davis196 on August 29, 2023, 11:01:13 AM I really can't understand some Bitcoiners.
On one hand, many Bitcoiners want big companies, investment funds and banks to buy more BTC and pump the Bitcoin price. On the other hand, there are Bitcoiners, who are bitching and complaining that "the big whales are manipulating the market" and "Bitcoin is under the control of a few big corporations". What do you people want? Mass adoption(including from the big corporations) or less adoption? Two of biggest centralized crypto exchanges are holding Bitcoins worth billions USD. Is this supposed to be big news? Is this supposed to be bad news? To be honest, I don't care. Holding 6 billion USD in Bitcoins isn't such a big deal. The BTC market cap and trading volume are way bigger. Yes, those crypto exchanges might collapse like FTX. And so what? I never used them. The people, who are using them do this at their own risk. Title: Re: Good and Bad at the same time - Mega entities hold $ 14 billions in Bitcoin Post by: Yamane_Keto on August 29, 2023, 11:02:11 AM We have to embrace this reality that's happening that no matter how decentralized is the goal of Bitcoin, we can't stop these entities from holding large amounts because they're able to. The extent of bitcoin distribution among users will not harm the decentralization of the network, so no one can force you to sell bitcoin, even if the supply in the market decreases, the price will inevitably increase.Imagine that out of a total of 21 million bitcoins, 12 million of them are in the hands of central parties. It is true that they can influence the price if they suddenly decide to sell bitcoins, but the presence of bitcoins with them will cause an increase in the price of bitcoins as long as they have diamond hands. Decentralization could be severely affected if there was a centralization of mining conditions and we had a pool or two, or an international regulatory framework was put in place to ban Bitcoin and imprison everyone who deals with it. Title: Re: Good and Bad at the same time - Mega entities hold $ 14 billions in Bitcoin Post by: Faisal2202 on August 29, 2023, 05:38:18 PM I don't get your explanation that the coins are not in the custody of these exchanges. Any circulation of bitcoin between or within any centralized is in the custody of these exchanges. Although you have access to assets these exchanges are the holders or custodians. Any coin that is in circulation outside a decentralized wallet cannot be said to be in circulation. I think I should not say that these assets are not in there holding as by holding means never withdraw it and hold it for longer period of time. I actually used the word holding to show that those money or assets they have in BTC is not some money that they can just hold instead they allow others to withdraw or deposit in that pool of money. I hope now you understand what I meant before. Title: Re: Good and Bad at the same time - Mega entities hold $ 14 billions in Bitcoin Post by: The Sceptical Chymist on August 29, 2023, 05:50:05 PM And it does not really mean that these amounts are not in circulation because these amounts are in the liquidity pools from which traders are making there trades. I hope you do understand that the assets they have are in circulation and not in there holdings. But you can say that, the inflow and outflow almost remain equilibrium. I don't get your explanation that the coins are not in the custody of these exchanges. Any circulation of bitcoin between or within any centralized is in the custody of these exchanges. Although you have access to assets these exchanges are the holders or custodians. Any coin that is in circulation outside a decentralized wallet cannot be said to be in circulation.Robinhood might have $X million in bitcoin under its control, but that's not to say it's theirs--and that goes for any investment firm. That's their clients' bitcoin, not Robinhood's or any exchange's for that matter. In other words, none of those exchanges could sink the price of bitcoin by dumping a huge amount of it on the market all at once, so I don't think there's really anything to worry about here. If we were talking about a whale like Michael Saylor or the Winklevoss twins, then there would be legit concerns about centralization and danger of market manipulation (though I don't think any of them own enough to manipulate it to a great degree or for that long). Know what I mean? Title: Re: Good and Bad at the same time - Mega entities hold $ 14 billions in Bitcoin Post by: Faisal2202 on August 29, 2023, 05:56:47 PM I'm having a hard time understanding what you two wrote, simply because of legibility of English, but I think I'm getting that there's some confusion as to who's holding what under whose name. Yeah my English is not that good but I am working on it, and to clear things out, Op mentioned in his post the bad side of these holdings which is manipulation and dump on bigger level and I tried to say that these holdings are lesser and also can not be used to dump the market because they are using these funds to back there platforms up. I mean why would they sell all of there holdings just to dump the market. And to explain it further more I said the holdings they have. They are using it as liquidity to complete the trades and to back there own assets like for Binance they have there own tokens to back them up like BNB and same goes for other 2 projects. Robinhood might have $X million in bitcoin under its control, but that's not to say it's theirs--and that goes for any investment firm. That's their clients' bitcoin, not Robinhood's or any exchange's for that matter. In other words, none of those exchanges could sink the price of bitcoin by dumping a huge amount of it on the market all at once, so I don't think there's really anything to worry about here. If we were talking about a whale like Michael Saylor or the Winklevoss twins, then there would be legit concerns about centralization and danger of market manipulation (though I don't think any of them own enough to manipulate it to a great degree or for that long). Know what I mean? Title: Re: Good and Bad at the same time - Mega entities hold $ 14 billions in Bitcoin Post by: Wimex on August 29, 2023, 07:21:20 PM I really can't understand some Bitcoiners. On one hand, many Bitcoiners want big companies, investment funds and banks to buy more BTC and pump the Bitcoin price. On the other hand, there are Bitcoiners, who are bitching and complaining that "the big whales are manipulating the market" and "Bitcoin is under the control of a few big corporations". What do you people want? Mass adoption(including from the big corporations) or less adoption? Two of biggest centralized crypto exchanges are holding Bitcoins worth billions USD. Is this supposed to be big news? Is this supposed to be bad news? To be honest, I don't care. Holding 6 billion USD in Bitcoins isn't such a big deal. The BTC market cap and trading volume are way bigger. Yes, those crypto exchanges might collapse like FTX. And so what? I never used them. The people, who are using them do this at their own risk. As has always been seen, both in political parties and in those organizations where an agreement must be reached, there are always people who are in favor of certain things and not others, and this is due to the fact that each one maintains their own approaches in as far as specifics…many bitcoiners want mass adoption as this could help raise the market and the value of the coin, the other side would just like there to be more equiting and not feel, like another force majeure as entities or people who own of large amounts of bitcoin, continue to control the system or in this case the market by having a certain domain to change the value situation from one moment to another, greatly affecting those who do not have considerable sums of this asset and of course to bitcoin at the time, because let's be honest, in case something happens to the money that these people have, the impact will be temporary, regardless of the amount, the question here is that everyone does what they want with its capital…just as you say... Quote The people, who are using them do this at their own risk. If a company, corporation or a person decides to accumulate their bitcoins on an exchange platform in their problem, if someone has more capacity to invest economically in bitcoin, than another why judge them?, If we had the opportunity, we would certainly think equalTitle: Re: Good and Bad at the same time - Mega entities hold $ 14 billions in Bitcoin Post by: Lucius on August 30, 2023, 10:36:01 AM I really can't understand some Bitcoiners. On one hand, many Bitcoiners want big companies, investment funds and banks to buy more BTC and pump the Bitcoin price. On the other hand, there are Bitcoiners, who are bitching and complaining that "the big whales are manipulating the market" and "Bitcoin is under the control of a few big corporations". What do you people want? Mass adoption(including from the big corporations) or less adoption? ~snip~ To me, there is nothing strange here, because not all people who invest or use Bitcoin are the same, some only want profit and have no other motives, while others (who are the minority) were attracted by something else. If someone did a serious global survey on how many BTC investors would agree to sell all the BTC they have at some expensive price, but if that meant that BTC would no longer exist after that, what do you think the survey results would be? What do people really want? Well, some want the price to be as low as possible because they think that BTC is simply too expensive to invest in it, while others who just want to profit dream of a big pump. But wishes are one thing, and reality is something completely different - which means that anyone can buy and sell BTC at any time and in any amount, without asking for any permission from anyone else. Title: Re: Good and Bad at the same time - Mega entities hold $ 14 billions in Bitcoin Post by: DeathAngel on August 30, 2023, 01:29:44 PM We better get used to it because Blackrock & others will begin to hoover up the supply, if they haven’t already. Any asset that is in high demand will to some extent get bought up by big institutions. Microstrategy own 1% of the supply, it is what it is. The fiat denominated price will soar, you can decide to do what you want with that information.
Title: Re: Good and Bad at the same time - Mega entities hold $ 14 billions in Bitcoin Post by: Ruttoshi on August 30, 2023, 04:37:29 PM For these three entities to have this amount of bitcoin, it means that the market can be manipulated by any of them because so many other investors bitcoin is also in their custody. It will have a bad effect on the market if any of them gets hacked or runs out of liquidity,it will affect the market due to FUD.
There are some private owners that I think have more bitcoin than these exchanges and their bitcoin is not in circulation but just in their wallets. These people too can also manipulate the market,if they want to. Title: Re: Good and Bad at the same time - Mega entities hold $ 14 billions in Bitcoin Post by: passwordnow on August 30, 2023, 08:24:29 PM We have to embrace this reality that's happening that no matter how decentralized is the goal of Bitcoin, we can't stop these entities from holding large amounts because they're able to. The extent of bitcoin distribution among users will not harm the decentralization of the network, so no one can force you to sell bitcoin, even if the supply in the market decreases, the price will inevitably increase.Imagine that out of a total of 21 million bitcoins, 12 million of them are in the hands of central parties. It is true that they can influence the price if they suddenly decide to sell bitcoins, but the presence of bitcoins with them will cause an increase in the price of bitcoins as long as they have diamond hands. Decentralization could be severely affected if there was a centralization of mining conditions and we had a pool or two, or an international regulatory framework was put in place to ban Bitcoin and imprison everyone who deals with it. Title: Re: Good and Bad at the same time - Mega entities hold $ 14 billions in Bitcoin Post by: dunfida on August 30, 2023, 10:57:35 PM And it does not really mean that these amounts are not in circulation because these amounts are in the liquidity pools from which traders are making there trades. I hope you do understand that the assets they have are in circulation and not in there holdings. But you can say that, the inflow and outflow almost remain equilibrium. I don't get your explanation that the coins are not in the custody of these exchanges. Any circulation of bitcoin between or within any centralized is in the custody of these exchanges. Although you have access to assets these exchanges are the holders or custodians. Any coin that is in circulation outside a decentralized wallet cannot be said to be in circulation.Robinhood might have $X million in bitcoin under its control, but that's not to say it's theirs--and that goes for any investment firm. That's their clients' bitcoin, not Robinhood's or any exchange's for that matter. In other words, none of those exchanges could sink the price of bitcoin by dumping a huge amount of it on the market all at once, so I don't think there's really anything to worry about here. If we were talking about a whale like Michael Saylor or the Winklevoss twins, then there would be legit concerns about centralization and danger of market manipulation (though I don't think any of them own enough to manipulate it to a great degree or for that long). Know what I mean? those numbers could really be able to reach out and its not something that shocking and just said that they dont have the rights on dumping and selling all of those coins in one go and the fact that it isnt theirs in the first place, unless if they would go dark and deciding on selling out then thats truly a devastating one. :D Its doesnt really that much of a critical thinking on how exchange platform works and the wallets that it do have. Using up your common sense would be telling you that it would be normal that they would be accumulating such numbers since these places are the common spot in between trading within markets. Title: Re: Good and Bad at the same time - Mega entities hold $ 14 billions in Bitcoin Post by: suzanne5223 on August 30, 2023, 11:43:47 PM I think the cryptocurrency exchange that's holding a huge amount of Bitcoin are least of our problems and for the record, all their holding is not directly their own. Besides, I remember Binance did an ICO in which they have their bounty campaign on this forum.
I think what is bad is the holding of the seized BTC from the US and other countries governments and for the record the previous sell of BTC done by the US impacted the market. Title: Re: Good and Bad at the same time - Mega entities hold $ 14 billions in Bitcoin Post by: vv181 on August 31, 2023, 03:12:36 PM That's a lot of money under one roof of each entity mentioned above. It should make us think whether this is good or bad to Bitcoin economy? Since these much Bitcoin are under their custody they have full control of it and we have already seen what happens when such entities get hacked for their data leak. The case of FTX is the biggest lesson for us. They are an exchange, currently, it is a customer's money and they have a security system set in place. Surely they did not put all the funds in one address. If your concern is that the funds within those addresses are hacked, well, I don't think they dare to revert the chain to claim back their lost funds, at least the majority of the community won't support it. Also, it is worth noting, that it is small compared to the total bitcoin market cap. It's like the real world wealth distribution inequality. That shouldn't have happened with Bitcoin at least. It is absurd to demand bitcoin as an exception of Pareto distribution whereas it exists in many sectors of life. Title: Re: Good and Bad at the same time - Mega entities hold $ 14 billions in Bitcoin Post by: icalical on August 31, 2023, 03:16:08 PM I really think that a centralized mega entities holding $14 Billions of Bitcoin has more bad effect than good, I don't deny that when those bitcoin is hold it helps to keep the Bitcoin price steady, but that also make Bitcoin less centralized, taking all hacking risk aside, we still don't know when will that $14 Billion Bitcoin be sold and lead the Bitcoin market into crash. This might sound utopian for now but I wish there wouldn't be any centralized entity holding so much of Bitcoin.
Title: Re: Good and Bad at the same time - Mega entities hold $ 14 billions in Bitcoin Post by: kryptqnick on August 31, 2023, 04:22:21 PM Didn't know that Robinhood was in the top-3, with the first two being major crypto exchanges... But this list got me suspicious immediately, as it got me thinking that there should be other major companies. So then I Googled how much BTC Grayscale's holding, and the answer from Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grayscale_Investments)(based on Yahoo Finance) is 643,572 BTC, which is worth more than 17 billion dollars. So how's this company not in the top-3 if it's holding more than all three of those combined? And if whoever wrote the article missed something as huge as Grayscale, it makes me wonder what kind of other things may be missing here, creating a potentially deceptive list of top holders. Or am I missing something here?
Title: Re: Good and Bad at the same time - Mega entities hold $ 14 billions in Bitcoin Post by: Darker45 on September 01, 2023, 03:32:49 AM Obviously, this is bad, very bad. Why do we even have to ask whether this is good or bad? What's good in it? There's nothing good in it.
You saying that it's good for Bitcoin economy because it is being held for long term is wrong. In the first place, are these coins Robinhood's? Nope. These are coins from Robinhood's users. Robinhood is merely a custodian. This in itself is already risky. Billions of people's money in a single wallet? Uh-uh! Secondly, how can you say that these coins are for long term? There's no indication. But if it is, it's still wrong because to hodl is to keep one's coins in self custody and not in centralized platforms. Saying that this means "much less Bitcoin in the circulation" is another mistake, because in lieu of these actual coins Robinhood is actually issuing IOUs or paper coins. We could even go as far as inquire how much IOUs or paper Bitcoin has Robinhood actually issued? It's a possibility that this amount is just mere fraction of the actual holdings that the platform users have. Title: Re: Good and Bad at the same time - Mega entities hold $ 14 billions in Bitcoin Post by: so98nn on September 01, 2023, 03:50:31 AM That's not a lot, it's actually surprisingly low. 14B is less than 3% of total supply. And they control it but don't own it, since it belongs to their customers. Even if you add Microstrategy, Coinbase and other giants, it seems that the majority of all coins is held in private wallets, as they should be. Exactly, these are the funds of their clients that are there because they trade with them, but there are probably also those who use these companies as banks, which is definitely not recommended. However, if you were to add up all the BTC that are in custodial wallets, you still get millions of coins that are at risk of being hacked or seized at any time. It would be ideal for everyone to use non-custodial wallets, and to trade via DEX, but that is something that is hard to expect considering that people mostly choose simplicity at the expense of privacy and security. That’s insane. We forgetting one thing here, Not your keys Not your bitcoin. These giant exchangers have already lured everyone into their investment strategies and everyone feel like they are the owner of it but that’s completely wrong. They are in possession of these coins through the agreements that they make while signing up for their services. That’s the only bond they hold with them. They are at all times at risk of losing the funds because of this very agreement with those little text under the Terms and Conditions that leads to lot of dispute and at the end they always win. Pick any case in the past only few of them successfully received full funds but not all. This much holdings has any effect on the market or not that’s different story but having ownership is another. Title: Re: Good and Bad at the same time - Mega entities hold $ 14 billions in Bitcoin Post by: adaseb on September 01, 2023, 03:56:52 AM Robinhood is a very popular broker. You go to wall street bets and many people there use it. Many stopped after the GMC halt but it’s still widely used. And these people got tons of money to throw around. Everyday there is some kid there is which yoloing $100K on some option that will expire at the end of the week.
They got tons of money and it’s no surprise that in total over $3B is tied up in bitcoin. I don’t think they are doing custody for Blackrock. Because blackrock would never use Robinhood. If needed they would use coinbase custody instead. There is also a similar wallet for dogecoin. It’s also on the top of the rich list. Title: Re: Good and Bad at the same time - Mega entities hold $ 14 billions in Bitcoin Post by: posi on September 01, 2023, 05:18:07 AM However, having that much significant amount can also be good for bitcoin economy since it is in holding for long terms. It is like having that much less Bitcoin in the circulation. It may or may not have an effect on the demand and supply but I wanna ask, does it have any? Have you thought what would happen if they sold all those bitcoins at once? As many have pointed out, the majority of bitcoin being owned by one organization or individual has never been considered a good thing. It does not reduce the supply of bitcoin circulating in the market and on the contrary, it can be pushed to the market at any time. And what happens next you probably already know. Bitcoin becomes more valuable not only because of its scarcity but also because of the utilities it brings to us that are really useful to us. But many say scarcity is what helped bitcoin achieve its value today. Creating a coin with a finite supply is not too difficult, but creating a coin that is decentralized and has as many use cases as bitcoin is impossible. Title: Re: Good and Bad at the same time - Mega entities hold $ 14 billions in Bitcoin Post by: Unbunplease on September 01, 2023, 02:17:22 PM Have you thought what would happen if they sold all those bitcoins at once? As many have pointed out, the majority of bitcoin being owned by one organization or individual has never been considered a good thing. It does not reduce the supply of bitcoin circulating in the market and on the contrary, it can be pushed to the market at any time. And what happens next you probably already know. Bitcoin becomes more valuable not only because of its scarcity but also because of the utilities it brings to us that are really useful to us. But many say scarcity is what helped bitcoin achieve its value today. Creating a coin with a finite supply is not too difficult, but creating a coin that is decentralized and has as many use cases as bitcoin is impossible. I don't think that an asset like bitcoin is bought for a huge sum only to sell it in one fell swoop. Most likely, these are people with strong nerves. As for decentralization, bitcoin hasn't been decentralized for a long time, but is mostly in the hands of manipulators who play the exchange rate the way they want it to be played Title: Re: Good and Bad at the same time - Mega entities hold $ 14 billions in Bitcoin Post by: Bushdark on September 01, 2023, 10:07:58 PM We better get used to it because Blackrock & others will begin to hoover up the supply, if they haven’t already. Any asset that is in high demand will to some extent get bought up by big institutions. Microstrategy own 1% of the supply, it is what it is. The fiat denominated price will soar, you can decide to do what you want with that information. This is looking like a battle of the fittest and the way institutions are diving into Bitcoin is very surprising. This people may not have a god plan for Bitcoin but there agenda looks like they want to have control of the market and decide on what will happen in the market at the same time they will keep making some crazy amount of profits that we may not have idea about. In the next few years, there will be many institutions in the market and they could cause the scarcity of Bitcoin Title: Re: Good and Bad at the same time - Mega entities hold $ 14 billions in Bitcoin Post by: serjent05 on September 01, 2023, 10:15:27 PM The distribution of wealth is always unequal, I can see this scenario as a normal occurrence in the world of finance. The market itself will tend to balance this output but obviously, these three companies have a significant effect on the Bitcoin market if it suffers a huge backlash just like the Binance if the SEC keep on pursuing their "illegal activities" and the other huge holder when they get hacked. But I believe they will act with responsibility and will not disrupt the market and affect it negatively. Because if they make the Bitcoin market crash, they will be the first one to suffer a huge loss.
Title: Re: Good and Bad at the same time - Mega entities hold $ 14 billions in Bitcoin Post by: arabspaceship123 on September 01, 2023, 10:36:07 PM We're having to deal with undesirable scenarios which aren't impossible outcomes. Any exchanges holding that many Bitcoin it's going to shake the market if they're hacked. Any exchanges with that many bitcoin's going to be tempted to venture outside using funds that aren't theirs.
I wouldn't trust others with my coins. I'd keep them safe myself. Current stats: Binance : ~ $6.3 billion Bitfinex : ~ $4.3 billion Hood : ~ $ 3.0 billion That's a lot of money under one roof of each entity mentioned above. It should make us think whether this is good or bad to Bitcoin economy? Since these much Bitcoin are under their custody they have full control of it and we have already seen what happens when such entities get hacked for their data leak. The case of FTX is the biggest lesson for us. However, having that much significant amount can also be good for bitcoin economy since it is in holding for long terms. It is like having that much less Bitcoin in the circulation. It may or may not have an effect on the demand and supply but I wanna ask, does it have any? Title: Re: Good and Bad at the same time - Mega entities hold $ 14 billions in Bitcoin Post by: posi on September 02, 2023, 03:56:56 AM Have you thought what would happen if they sold all those bitcoins at once? As many have pointed out, the majority of bitcoin being owned by one organization or individual has never been considered a good thing. It does not reduce the supply of bitcoin circulating in the market and on the contrary, it can be pushed to the market at any time. And what happens next you probably already know. Bitcoin becomes more valuable not only because of its scarcity but also because of the utilities it brings to us that are really useful to us. But many say scarcity is what helped bitcoin achieve its value today. Creating a coin with a finite supply is not too difficult, but creating a coin that is decentralized and has as many use cases as bitcoin is impossible. I don't think that an asset like bitcoin is bought for a huge sum only to sell it in one fell swoop. Most likely, these are people with strong nerves. As for decentralization, bitcoin hasn't been decentralized for a long time, but is mostly in the hands of manipulators who play the exchange rate the way they want it to be played Bitcoin is still decentralized and always will be because even though sharks can buy large amounts of bitcoin for the purpose of price manipulation, they will never be able to buy all of everyone's bitcoin. Furthermore, they can only manipulate prices for short periods of time to make profits, they cannot manipulate the entire bitcoin network. Don't forget that in addition to speculators like us, there are many people who use bitcoin as a currency or storage asset, and whales cannot manipulate those bitcoins. Title: Re: Good and Bad at the same time - Mega entities hold $ 14 billions in Bitcoin Post by: traderethereum on September 02, 2023, 05:10:03 AM There are good and bad influences from entities holding large amounts of Bitcoin.
You have already mentioned the good and bad effects and the consequences that could result if one of these things happened. I don't think about the impact, but it will help the adoption of bitcoin. If a bad influence happens, the market will surely crash and people will panic, which is the best moment to buy bitcoins. And when good influences occur, market conditions will improve and cause prices to rise. That's when it's time to take advantage of the moment that happened. Title: Re: Good and Bad at the same time - Mega entities hold $ 14 billions in Bitcoin Post by: Mauser on September 04, 2023, 06:25:39 AM That's a lot of money under one roof of each entity mentioned above. It should make us think whether this is good or bad to Bitcoin economy? Since these much Bitcoin are under their custody they have full control of it and we have already seen what happens when such entities get hacked for their data leak. The case of FTX is the biggest lesson for us. However, having that much significant amount can also be good for bitcoin economy since it is in holding for long terms. It is like having that much less Bitcoin in the circulation. It may or may not have an effect on the demand and supply but I wanna ask, does it have any? When it comes to Robinhood I am very sceptical of their actions after the whole GameStop debacle. They are very close to the Hedge Fund industry and might have some arrangements the public doesn't know about. As for Binance and Bitfinex I think it's normal for a large exchange to also hold large amounts of the number one traded security. We all know about the long term trend of Bitcoins, so why shouldn't big institutions profit from it as well. The next halving is just around the corner and it's only a matter of time for the price to pick up again. It's true that there some benefits of large institutions holding many coins, it reduces the trading supply and will also push the price up. So, for Bitcoin holders it’s a good thing, and for new investors that are trying to build their crypto portfolio it’s a bad thing. The question is how many of the customers are leaving their coins long term at the exchange and how many are actively trading them. The issue with long term storage of coins at the exchange is that it could lead to big losses if the exchange comes into financial difficulties. Title: Re: Good and Bad at the same time - Mega entities hold $ 14 billions in Bitcoin Post by: Sayeds56 on September 04, 2023, 08:25:52 AM Reading through the coin desk's newsletter today I came across news about Robin Hood and it's holding analysis. Apparently the HOOD company has reached Top #3 in the list of who holds the most Bitcoin in the world. Current stats: Binance : ~ $6.3 billion Bitfinex : ~ $4.3 billion Hood : ~ $ 3.0 billion It is an interesting topic of debate and discussions in crypto communities. However, few entities holding Bitcoin worth 14 Billion dollars can be viewed both positively and negatively, depending on one's perspective. The large means in Bitcoin means legitimacy by institutions and it can lead to price stability as institutional investors generally tend to hold their assets for long term. On the other hand, it can be seen as concentration of wealth in few hands which can raise concerns about inequality. Furthermore, large amount of Bitcoin holdings by limited number of entities can potentially lead to price manipulation, posing harm to small investors. Title: Re: Good and Bad at the same time - Mega entities hold $ 14 billions in Bitcoin Post by: yhiaali3 on September 04, 2023, 09:42:46 AM Certainly the accumulation of such huge amounts of Bitcoin in the hands of a few centralized companies is not healthy for the market at all. Accumulating large amounts of Bitcoin in the hands of a few people increases the risks of centralization and market manipulation.
The other bad thing is that these large numbers indicate the large number of users who are still keeping their coins in the exchanges instead of keeping them in their safe wallets. These people do not realize what they are doing because they are risking their coins and also allowing these large amounts to accumulate in the hands of the central exchanges, and then if any accident happens they start... By screaming and crying. Title: Re: Good and Bad at the same time - Mega entities hold $ 14 billions in Bitcoin Post by: Hanadawa on September 04, 2023, 10:10:02 AM ~ People should be able to learn from the FTX case (link:Bankruptcy of FTX (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bankruptcy_of_FTX)). Keeping a large amount of BTC on an exchange is not the right choice. But it is possible that it also includes the accumulated amount of many users who deposited their small amount of BTC there.Indeed, legally the company belongs to the exchange because they own the keys. But I wonder if there has ever been an exchange that has taken advantage of BTC from users to manipulate the market? Title: Re: Good and Bad at the same time - Mega entities hold $ 14 billions in Bitcoin Post by: spectre71 on September 04, 2023, 10:46:23 AM 14 billion is nothing at all at this scale. What 2.8% of market cap?
Elons tweets have done considerably more damage than any institution. Those whales will add much more stability than a sea off FOMO clowns. Title: Re: Good and Bad at the same time - Mega entities hold $ 14 billions in Bitcoin Post by: DrBeer on September 04, 2023, 01:13:45 PM Reading through the coin desk's newsletter today I came across news about Robin Hood and it's holding analysis. Apparently the HOOD company has reached Top #3 in the list of who holds the most Bitcoin in the world. Current stats: Binance : ~ $6.3 billion Bitfinex : ~ $4.3 billion Hood : ~ $ 3.0 billion That's a lot of money under one roof of each entity mentioned above. It should make us think whether this is good or bad to Bitcoin economy? Since these much Bitcoin are under their custody they have full control of it and we have already seen what happens when such entities get hacked for their data leak. The case of FTX is the biggest lesson for us. However, having that much significant amount can also be good for bitcoin economy since it is in holding for long terms. It is like having that much less Bitcoin in the circulation. It may or may not have an effect on the demand and supply but I wanna ask, does it have any? Quote Robinhood Revealed to be Third-Largest Bitcoin Holder With $3B in BTC Source: Robinhood Revealed to be Third-Largest Bitcoin Holder With $3B in BTC (https://www.coindesk.com/markets/2023/08/28/robinhood-revealed-to-be-third-largest-bitcoin-holder-with-3b-in-btc/)Robinhood transferred some 118,300 bitcoin to the wallet from several other smaller wallets over a three-month period. Investing and trading platform Robinhood (HOOD) holds over $3 billion in bitcoin (BTC) in a single wallet that attracted the holdings over several months, wallet data from Arkham Intelligence shows. This makes it the third-largest bitcoin holder behind crypto exchanges Binance and Bitfinex, which hold $6.4 billion and $4.3 billion worth of tokens on single wallets respectively. The wallet previously gained notoriety among market watchers in the past few months as the identity of its owners sparked conversations and concerns about who the mysterious owner of such a large amount of bitcoin could be. As of Monday, Robinhood has not publically commented on these holdings. The transfers sparked speculations ranging from the bitcoin holdings belonging to financial behemoth BlackRock, which filed for a Bitcoin ETF earlier this year, to crypto exchange Gemini shifting its users’ holdings to a wallet. Robinhood transferred some 118,300 bitcoin to the wallet from several other smaller wallets over a three-month period, data shows. These tokens are custodied by crypto trading firm Jump Trading, Arkham representatives confirmed to CoinDesk in a Telegram message. All of these holdings are held on the Bitcoin blockchain. The first transactions were made on March 8, after which huge amounts of bitcoin were transferred until July 14, data from BitInfoCharts show. Meanwhile, the holdings shed light on the extent of Robinhood’s bitcoin exposure despite low crypto trading volumes on its platform. No surprise there. Crypto exchanges need MASSIVES of bitcoin to manipulate the market. Manipulation of billions (in terms of dollars), gives a huge income, both when the cryptocurrency grows and when it falls. I hope you don't think they are just holding these huge sums for themselves ? If the exchanges bought bitcoin for example 60.000 dollars - the amount of holding is of course huge, but you can also calculate the loss, at today's price, provided that it is the amount of accumulation and not the amount for market manipulation. Title: Re: Good and Bad at the same time - Mega entities hold $ 14 billions in Bitcoin Post by: ultrloa on September 04, 2023, 10:22:42 PM Reading through the coin desk's newsletter today I came across news about Robin Hood and it's holding analysis. Apparently the HOOD company has reached Top #3 in the list of who holds the most Bitcoin in the world. Current stats: Binance : ~ $6.3 billion Bitfinex : ~ $4.3 billion Hood : ~ $ 3.0 billion That's a lot of money under one roof of each entity mentioned above. It should make us think whether this is good or bad to Bitcoin economy? Since these much Bitcoin are under their custody they have full control of it and we have already seen what happens when such entities get hacked for their data leak. The case of FTX is the biggest lesson for us. However, having that much significant amount can also be good for bitcoin economy since it is in holding for long terms. It is like having that much less Bitcoin in the circulation. It may or may not have an effect on the demand and supply but I wanna ask, does it have any? Quote Robinhood Revealed to be Third-Largest Bitcoin Holder With $3B in BTC Source: Robinhood Revealed to be Third-Largest Bitcoin Holder With $3B in BTC (https://www.coindesk.com/markets/2023/08/28/robinhood-revealed-to-be-third-largest-bitcoin-holder-with-3b-in-btc/)Robinhood transferred some 118,300 bitcoin to the wallet from several other smaller wallets over a three-month period. Investing and trading platform Robinhood (HOOD) holds over $3 billion in bitcoin (BTC) in a single wallet that attracted the holdings over several months, wallet data from Arkham Intelligence shows. This makes it the third-largest bitcoin holder behind crypto exchanges Binance and Bitfinex, which hold $6.4 billion and $4.3 billion worth of tokens on single wallets respectively. The wallet previously gained notoriety among market watchers in the past few months as the identity of its owners sparked conversations and concerns about who the mysterious owner of such a large amount of bitcoin could be. As of Monday, Robinhood has not publically commented on these holdings. The transfers sparked speculations ranging from the bitcoin holdings belonging to financial behemoth BlackRock, which filed for a Bitcoin ETF earlier this year, to crypto exchange Gemini shifting its users’ holdings to a wallet. Robinhood transferred some 118,300 bitcoin to the wallet from several other smaller wallets over a three-month period, data shows. These tokens are custodied by crypto trading firm Jump Trading, Arkham representatives confirmed to CoinDesk in a Telegram message. All of these holdings are held on the Bitcoin blockchain. The first transactions were made on March 8, after which huge amounts of bitcoin were transferred until July 14, data from BitInfoCharts show. Meanwhile, the holdings shed light on the extent of Robinhood’s bitcoin exposure despite low crypto trading volumes on its platform. No surprise there. Crypto exchanges need MASSIVES of bitcoin to manipulate the market. Manipulation of billions (in terms of dollars), gives a huge income, both when the cryptocurrency grows and when it falls. I hope you don't think they are just holding these huge sums for themselves ? If the exchanges bought bitcoin for example 60.000 dollars - the amount of holding is of course huge, but you can also calculate the loss, at today's price, provided that it is the amount of accumulation and not the amount for market manipulation. If they care about those lose for sure they might not exist for long years and for sure they are still bullish with holding that balances since there business still doing good and might the amount hodl is use for series of manipulation cases. One of the reason why we always see a price fall if one of this institution fall or scare people about possible collapse since they can manipulate people to do dumps due to that amount they hold which possibly throw out once bad faiths come with them. Title: Re: Good and Bad at the same time - Mega entities hold $ 14 billions in Bitcoin Post by: arabspaceship123 on September 04, 2023, 10:43:28 PM Many exchanges suffer hacks so it doesn't make sense to leave cryptocurrencies with them. If you don't have your private key you've lost control of your money it's a rule to obey. If ppl don't want to download full nodes for each coin choose light wallets but leaving money with exchanges isn't safe.
Certainly the accumulation of such huge amounts of Bitcoin in the hands of a few centralized companies is not healthy for the market at all. Accumulating large amounts of Bitcoin in the hands of a few people increases the risks of centralization and market manipulation. The other bad thing is that these large numbers indicate the large number of users who are still keeping their coins in the exchanges instead of keeping them in their safe wallets. These people do not realize what they are doing because they are risking their coins and also allowing these large amounts to accumulate in the hands of the central exchanges, and then if any accident happens they start... By screaming and crying. Title: Re: Good and Bad at the same time - Mega entities hold $ 14 billions in Bitcoin Post by: MusaMohamed on September 05, 2023, 12:57:54 AM Many exchanges suffer hacks so it doesn't make sense to leave cryptocurrencies with them. If you don't have your private key you've lost control of your money it's a rule to obey. Hacks are not worst thing to happen for cryptocurrency exchange users because if a solid exchange is hacked, they can compensate their users instantly or gradually.Poloniex Claims All Customers Repaid Following March Bitcoin Hack (https://www.coindesk.com/markets/2014/07/02/poloniex-claims-all-customers-repaid-following-march-bitcoin-hack/) Bitfinex hack, reaction through BFX tokens to users (https://www.coinbureau.com/analysis/bitfinex-hack/#the-reaction) Hackers steal $40.7M in bitcoin from Binance (https://www.coindesk.com/markets/2019/05/07/hackers-steal-407-million-in-bitcoin-from-crypto-exchange-binance/) The worst thing to cryptocurrency exchange users is an exchange makes a scam exit. They will lose all cryptocurrency in their account on that exchange. Hacked Exchanges since 2011 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5090869.0) Exchange graveyard (Rest in peace) (https://www.cryptowisser.com/exchange-graveyard/). They rested in peace but their users don't, they have to live with pain. Title: Re: Good and Bad at the same time - Mega entities hold $ 14 billions in Bitcoin Post by: Pierre 2 on September 05, 2023, 05:27:41 AM This was a bad thing in past because we were worried big companies/holders could crash Bitcoin singlehandedly. But I think this is not issue anymore because Bitcoin is lot more based. It became part of global economy with millions of users. In such worrying dump, many people that uses Bitcoin would be part of buying list. So honestly it's just nothing to worry anymore. Bitcoin has proven value that will make people keep buying and using.
Title: Re: Good and Bad at the same time - Mega entities hold $ 14 billions in Bitcoin Post by: lixer on September 05, 2023, 02:38:21 PM I really can't understand some Bitcoiners. That is because there are two sides of people. So, you should get used to it already. Just side on the group that you have a similarity and just ignore the other. As for me, of course I want mass adoptions so I can allow those big corporations to enter here. If we are happy that they can pump the price, we should also accept that they can dump it as well.On one hand, many Bitcoiners want big companies, investment funds and banks to buy more BTC and pump the Bitcoin price. On the other hand, there are Bitcoiners, who are bitching and complaining that "the big whales are manipulating the market" and "Bitcoin is under the control of a few big corporations". What do you people want? Mass adoption(including from the big corporations) or less adoption? Two of biggest centralized crypto exchanges are holding Bitcoins worth billions USD. Is this supposed to be big news? Is this supposed to be bad news? To be honest, I don't care. Holding 6 billion USD in Bitcoins isn't such a big deal. The BTC market cap and trading volume are way bigger. Yes, those crypto exchanges might collapse like FTX. And so what? I never used them. The people, who are using them do this at their own risk. But, is it really a disadvantage? For me no. It was actually an advantage as I can buy coins at a cheaper rate. It's normal for an exchange ( especially the top ones ) to hold a large sum of money. It's not a new thing and it's not a bad news, but it can be a good thing to know because it shows many people are now into cryptos. Title: Re: Good and Bad at the same time - Mega entities hold $ 14 billions in Bitcoin Post by: dansus021 on September 06, 2023, 02:47:31 AM you can add https://www.coingecko.com/en/public-companies-bitcoin this to your list the top HOLDER is Microstrategy with 4 Billion USD and almost 1% of total supply crazy right?
I think this trend not gonna stop here if all ETFs is approved by the SEC there is so much possibility that maybe 20%-25% bitcoin total supply will likely held by big companies including BlackRock. The good thing is now other major companies or retail will look BTC more but the downside is bitcoin price might have a great correlation with world economy. Title: Re: Good and Bad at the same time - Mega entities hold $ 14 billions in Bitcoin Post by: so98nn on September 07, 2023, 11:55:35 AM This was a bad thing in past because we were worried big companies/holders could crash Bitcoin singlehandedly. But I think this is not issue anymore because Bitcoin is lot more based. It became part of global economy with millions of users. In such worrying dump, many people that uses Bitcoin would be part of buying list. So honestly it's just nothing to worry anymore. Bitcoin has proven value that will make people keep buying and using. Yes the course has changed a lot over the period of time and it’s various applications industry wide are suggestive that it’s not going to be easy to be manipulated by single entity. Just realised someone made a good point about how it is not the money of single entity but belongs to various users. Though I disagree with the fact that it could be in the possession of the entity were they keeping the money. However it’s again the melodrama about who has got the more power and it seems even the most powerful entities won’t be able to move the market as it’s even more rigorous volume out there. Title: Re: Good and Bad at the same time - Mega entities hold $ 14 billions in Bitcoin Post by: retreat on September 07, 2023, 12:51:20 PM If you compare the value they hold with the market cap of Bitcoin as a whole, it is not large, you could even say it is small. However, it is true that when some entities hold a lot of Bitcoin in their hands, it means that the opportunity for them to manipulate the market may exist, but looking at the large market cap of Bitcoin, it will be difficult for them to control the market.
Title: Re: Good and Bad at the same time - Mega entities hold $ 14 billions in Bitcoin Post by: South Park on September 07, 2023, 10:14:37 PM If you compare the value they hold with the market cap of Bitcoin as a whole, it is not large, you could even say it is small. However, it is true that when some entities hold a lot of Bitcoin in their hands, it means that the opportunity for them to manipulate the market may exist, but looking at the large market cap of Bitcoin, it will be difficult for them to control the market. The danger of a small number of actors holding a lot of bitcoin is that they can act in a concerted manner and move the market as they want just when they need it the most, increasing their profits or their holdings, depending on what they may want at the time, so even if the amount they are holding is small compared to the market cap of bitcoin, if they were to act all at the same time you can be sure the price of bitcoin will move abruptly on the direction they want.Title: Re: Good and Bad at the same time - Mega entities hold $ 14 billions in Bitcoin Post by: panganib999 on September 07, 2023, 10:26:43 PM If they are holding it for security, sure it's great for the economy both ways, they aren't expected to sell these at a regular company issue, and of crouse this decreases the circulating supply of bitcoin which makes it even more valuable. Plus these kinds of news are great for bitcoin for some reason, as it inspires more people to invest and buy bitcoin just like what happened in 2020 when Elon Musk bought bitcoins for SpaceX, and Tesla, albeit selling these holdings eventually though.
You could also be correct, it centralizes the purchasing power to the few, but if you'll ask me, the dynamic isn't that too inclined towards these companies in bitcoin compared to fiat, which means the public still holds as much power against these private entities as they have over the people. Title: Re: Good and Bad at the same time - Mega entities hold $ 14 billions in Bitcoin Post by: Gyfts on September 08, 2023, 09:35:43 PM However, having that much significant amount can also be good for bitcoin economy since it is in holding for long terms. It is like having that much less Bitcoin in the circulation. It may or may not have an effect on the demand and supply but I wanna ask, does it have any? Say some portion of these entities are coins being used for long term storage, whereas the remaining percentage are user funds that can be circulated in the market -- the portion of coins being used for long term storage theoretically limits the supply and makes Bitcoin more valuable, even if it's a small amount of the total Bitcoins in circulation. To your point about FTX, if a large holder ends up getting hacked, it has lasting effects on the market. It would be preferable to me if single entities didn't hoard large amounts of BTC, but that's not up to anyone as to how much BTC should someone can hoard. I suppose it's up to consumers to decide who they trust their coins with, which should be no one but themselves but to each his own. Title: Re: Good and Bad at the same time - Mega entities hold $ 14 billions in Bitcoin Post by: Unbunplease on September 09, 2023, 11:03:56 PM Bitcoin is gradually becoming a trading instrument like securities, gold, silver, oil and so on. The main advantage of bitcoin is its absolute liquidity. Also, bitcoin trading uses instruments that are familiar to ordinary traders, which is a great advantage
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