Bitcoin Forum

With my experience in the cryptocurrency market, I decided to develop a short-term Bitcoin spot trading strategy using the TradingView platform and its strategy programming tool. I managed to create a strategy that yields an average annual return of 20% according to backtesting. My question is, is this return acceptable, or in your opinion, what would be an acceptable or good return?

What some people consider as good return is to never lose a trade. Even if it is 1% and no loss, it is a good return. As for me, I will prefer at least 100% annual profit but it also depends on the amount of money that you put in it. The higher the money the lower you will want the risk to be and the more the lower the risks, the lower the return in percentage.

Yes, that's an acceptable return but are you able to prove that it can happen to you through trading? How many times did you back tested that? Having an specific percentage of profit or ROI annually is hard to hit. It's because this is a volatile market and you will never know how much you'll be earning through trading. While you can actually make good money if you've got that percentage and then you've got a huge capital, that makes sense but to think of how much exact it is is like that might not happen. Another thing, this topic belongs to the Trading Discussion. (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=8.0)

There is no acceptable return percentage. Traders lose and win to very varying degrees depending on their skill and control of emotions, and a bit of luck. Many traders will want something more risky that 20% which can promise a some more profits, but winning no matter how small is better than losses.

But since there are no guarantees, even with backtesting there is no guarantee of profits.

Of course yes, any form of profit is good when it’s consistent. 20% is already an insane percentage for fixed profit yearly when you have high capital invested. Banks only offer below 5% while most defi platform offer below 10% APY with their stablecoin and top coin staking.

But this acceptability on the percentage still varies on how much margin you are using because it’s useless to have 20% profit while the total profit in fiat value is just a penny. To be precise, it’s based on your preference on the profit amount to categorize it as good but 20% profit generally speaking is already above good return.

Getting an average return of 20% per year is quite good if you trade - in fact it is still better than the return on my bitcoin investment in the last 10 months. So far I've had 15% returns in the last 10 months - but this is still worth enough for me to accept as a holder.

The thing is investing and trading are of course different - but in most cases I think traders always have a hard time maintaining their return percentages consistently. I don't know how honest you are about the annual percentage return on your trades - but I don't think you need to lie about it. 20% is pretty good - it's your profit, not someone else's.

It has been reported.

It depends on the currency you invested. %20 return for USD would be good, because it would be higher than inflation rate. %20 return for TRY would be a disaster because annual inflation is more than %100. %20 return for BTC would be the best one because there's no inflation. Even if Bitcoin price goes down you would know it will go up again. As long as you keep your BTC you don't lose anything.
As for how you got the 20% return, I wouldn't trust any automated trading program. There is both winning and losing with trading. You have to accept risks first.

20% is good until you start getting it, and after a while it no longer is enough and then you need to set a higher target. Then maybe you set a target of 40% as the percentage that is now a good return and then you start getting it and it becomes no longer enough again. In a straightforward sentence, I mean any percentage you see as a good return is only good until you start getting it. To someone who has never recorded 20% annual good return, that target is good for them, for another person who has had that return, it no longer will be acceptable, a higher target will be needed.

Acceptable to me, yes, acceptable to most people, yes. But only thing counts that is it acceptable to yourself. Anything that isn't taking bag down with the bear market is excellent results. On the other hand, with the bull market, if you are doing worse returns then just holding... Well results are obvious just by comparison, right?

But i have to say that you are setting bar pretty low with only 20% gains.

How do you know that you can make up to 20% profit every year in trading? I'm not sure if you backtested your strategy for a year or just a couple of days. If you backtest for one year, I can be sure that you will reach that level of profit. For me, you will not only be able to reach 20% profit next year because the halving phase of Bitcoin will happen. We know from the history of Bitcoin that as long as the halving phase starts, after that, the price of Bitcoin will increase. It's a huge profit if you compare it to your annual income from the Bank.

It's good. I say anything above your capital is good enough and can be considered as a success already, anything past that is just a bonus. Even more so if this was a stable annual return (which I doubt, but hey who knows), heck even a 10% stable return is more than enough to be called a success imo.

I'd say judge it for yourself still though, 20% may look small if your capital was small in the first place so you might not really feel it. Depends on how you feel about it, but with a smaller capital I'd rathe risk it for possible bigger gains.

good or not depends on the risk accompanied by this yield, if annual is 20% honestly thats quite low, but also need to observe the risk, if it doesn't expose your investment capital to the risk of losing it just because the market is getting red and bearish, then i guess you will be okay. but honestly spot trading, 20% gain for a whole year is miniscule, the only way to make it worth it is if you have big capital that at the very least allows you to earn quite the sum then it will be worth it.
otherwise if its just thousand dollars gaining 20% a year, it will be just a waste of time in my opinion.

I conducted the backtest from 2018 to the present date in 2023, and on a monthly basis, it has consistently yielded returns ranging from 0.8% to 3%. Currently, I am actively testing it on a real account since September 15th.

20 percent per trade in the short term is enough in my opinion. The aim of trading is to seek profits, whatever it is, even 1 percent if one trade is more than enough. Sometimes what makes trading a loss and a waste is greed, the desire to get more even though the market is no longer able to move in the direction we are going.

This is what is on my mind also.
You are already profitable here, especially if it is 20%, that's already a huge win. Just make sure to maintain it. If you manage to do it consistently, you can really be a profitable trader, you can just improve other things once you area already profiting this good amount, like increasing your capital, learning more different strategy or better risk management.
But  overall, that's already a win for me

More than acceptable. Anyway, that's still based on your capital. If you compound that amount without taking out your profit, it will yield a huge amount of money in the long run. As long as it's consistent, you should be happy with that. Even putting your money in a bank, which I consider safe, does not generate that kind of percentage, so yeah, stick with that.

Exactly, it would work well with accounts that have slightly higher capital levels. But it's better than having it in the bank or staking, right?

20% APY is a good return rate and you do it naturally without joining Ponzi scheme. Terra collapsed because of their high APYs which failed to maintain when bankrun happened in May 2022.

I want to ask you, 20% is a good rate but if it is a figure you get from back-testing (even one year backwards), it does not guarantee you will get a same APY when you are in actual trading with the strategy moving forwards.

What will be your risk management if the 20% APY fails in actual trading?

It all depends on one's preferences and risk tolerance. Whether it's aiming for a 20% return over 3, 4, or 5 years, or the potential for a 100% return within five years, it's important to acknowledge the inherent uncertainty when dealing with assets like Bitcoin.

I conducted the backtest from 2018 to the present date in 2023, and on a monthly basis, it has consistently yielded returns ranging from 0.8% to 3%. Currently, I am actively testing it on a real account since September 15th.

The way my strategy works is by averaging purchase prices. I buy when volatility is high, making it less likely to fail, all supported by the backtest. Of course, in real trading, anything can happen.

In other words, what you have done is a simulation of those five years ago until now, and for the last 15 days you have been testing it with real money. It would not be the first time that when testing with money the results are not the expected ones, besides, past returns (and even more if they are simulated) do not guarantee future returns. But supposing you are one of the few traders that get long term profitability, yes, 20% per year is a good return.

Yes 20% is great but you most likely won’t get this every year even if it was possible in the past. Generally backtesting is never accurate because you don’t take into account slippage and liquidity. You will find that in real life you won’t get the fills you normally want and profits won’t be as high as expected.

        If you compare it to the bank, that's high because the bank only has a 1%–5% APY. But if the only investment you make is around $100,
you will not feel that $100 has grown. But if that is around 10,000 dollars and then it's 20% APY, somehow you will feel what you have grown because the profit is also around 200 dollars.

       That's why the only people who do this in crypto currency are those who have large holdings in their wallets and are willing to hold their
assets for a year.

Bro that's highly acceptable if you are capable of doing it. In the current economic crisis it is more than a blessing for you because most of the market is down run by uncertain collapses. It would come to our surprise if there is any financial brokerage firm, mutual fund products or any companies share would give such high returns. I'm wondering what sort of strategy you have built because you are on the roll with this return.

This take some serious skills to work with share market, tackle the crisis impact or maybe have indepth knowledge about the company to invest. Even though you have mastered it so that's big one.

The MF that I joined back in 2022 is minus right now with no guarantee of its recovery anytime soon. I can't even bother asking the agent why is that so because all he answers is it's economic crisis and things are not in favor. I definitely gotta see some one else to do this job. You are safely doing well this market, just keep up those returns.

Accept the return may be its smaller or larger because something is better than nothing and if you don't face any loss throughout the year and get 20 percent return then its enough for you which will increases with passage of time. But if you Loss 40 percent and get 20 percent return then your loss will be more than return which is not a true way of earning.

During some year the price become lower of all the coins and getting profit under such circumstances 5 or 10 profit is even more for you because all the time market is not higher to offer you outcomes that will based on your desire. Minimum percentage of profit will be more for you if you avoid yourself from loss percentage because if you Loss become equal to gain then it implies that your gain is also equal to zero.

If that applies to Bitcoin, that's high for me, especially if you put large holdings of Bitcoin in stakes or farming. I just don't know about other cryptocurrencies; if there is such a percentage given, are there any others? In these times, it is actually good to accumulate crypto assets.

So let's take advantage of the opportunity while we're still in a bear market anyway. Just save and don't stop until the bull run or the halving of Bitcoin. But how many years is this 20% that you say OP? Is it 1 year or more than 2 years?

The annual earnings rate actually varies depending on the person's own wishes and expectations. To express my opinion, I think it is appropriate to earn an annual profit of 20% depending on the capital amount. The reason why I evaluate it depending on the capital amount is that there is not much advantage in gaining 20% profit with small capital on a unit basis. Of course, earning this amount as a percentage is a nice success but there is a big difference between earning 20% with a capital of 1,000 USD and earning 20% with a capital of 100,000 USD.

As I mentioned, if we need to interpret it as a percentage, a gain of 20% or more can definitely be considered quite sufficient because many investment instruments do not offer this much profit on an annual basis.

Nice, so that means that this is really backed up with real test and you've been doing that for so long. And the percentage that you're projecting is realistic unlike those that I have seen in other platforms that are unrealistic and looks like a too good to be true thing. And hopefully it goes well with your actual test with real money.

You're nearing to a month within the next 2 weeks so I hope that it goes well for you and it's nice that you're answering the queries here and providing some clarity to how you've been doing that because most of the posts like this that everyone has seen before seems just like a bluff. How long do you plan to test this on real account?

If you're satisfied, then it is a good return. This assessment must refer to several factors, in fact Bitcoin has a price trend that is never consistent every year. The most traders hope for is to remain profitable in a bear market. Imo, calculating average profits over several years isn't ideal as a trading evaluation.

It's acceptable, 20% annual reward on return on investment is not too bad, if it were to be more than this I would have said its likely not to be true, many people always think about using high yielding return on investment in other for them to get enough satisfaction of their desired profits, but things doesn't work that way in most cases, the higher the return the higher the risk, that is why we shouldn't be too focused on what gives us a quick return or promise on a vain platter.

The percentage of return completely depends on you mate. If you are happy with this, then yes this will definitely work. If this is a sure sort winning strategy, and if the returns are guaranteed, then why not to increase the amount that you have invested, this can yield you more profits. Now if you want to increase the numbers of the percentage of returns, then you to take risks accordingly. Moreover from my personal experience, no profits are guaranteed, so yes keep us updating about the returns that you are getting.

This is a good profit, but only if it is received on a real, not a demo account. And in order to get the right result, you will need a more significant period of time, calculated in several months. But even in this case, the data may be incorrect, since your strategy will not be able to be executed due to market changes.

20% per year or 1.66% every month is something that much better compared into those traditional platforms or institutions that we do know offering 1-3% per year on which making up some comparison
then you do know on whats or whose better on which there's no doubt that this is a considerable thing but results on backtesting doesnt mean that it would be surely be that ending up on what you do gain in a span of year.
Why? dealing with crypto space is never been that an assured thing specially into its movement. There's no way that movements would be fixed and something that would really be in uniform on which it would really be just that normal that breaking those analysis would really be just like a normal day on this space which means that adjustments is a must and getting along with the flow will really be a typical thing on here.
If you do set up those analysis with lesser risks and if you are really that contented with those results then go ahead, but be better to be wary about the volatility of the market on which you would really be needing
to be that versatile and never ever make yourself that forgetting on having a couple of back up plans whenever your initial analysis had failed because it would really be just that so normal that market
could break out an analysis in a snap no matter how good and realistic it would be.

Warren Buffet may or may not be doing 20% a year. Let me put that out there, it should be explaining how important a 20% return per year is. Obviously he has been doing that for 70 years and that is why there are a lot of people who puts money into his firm and he has a lot of capital to make that 20% return. Making a 20% return on 1000 dollars and 1 billion dollars are not the same and you can't really consider it same success.

However, if you make that type of return per year on the dollar, you will be very very very rich in 50 years as well, just find a website that calculates it for you, put in the starting amount, put in years, and put it that 20% and you will see how rich you will be. Bitcoin could help you with that, I bet that on the long term bitcoin will bring more than 20% return.

That is income earned passively, and on the other hand billionaire investors tend to avoid investment instruments with returns that are too large (if any, it is probably only a small part of their investment portfolio).

In the context of trading which is a more active effort than just holding, such returns may be relatively small especially for small capital traders, let's say you only trade $1k for the whole year + $200 in profits. On the other hand, there are several things that need to be counted as your sacrifices, including the time and energy spent.

As of today, 02/10/2023, it has generated a 0.76% return in 17 days. We'll see how it performs until October 15th, when it reaches the 30-day mark. I will upload a link to the Excel file containing all the trades I've opened, generated by the Binance platform. I plan to conduct a backtest for around 6 months.


I was thinking the same thing, but slippage isn't as significant since I'm operating within a 3-hour time frame.


This strategy I've developed operates by averaging purchase prices. The key question is: when to buy? This is where certain mathematical calculations come into play to try to predict market volatility.


I conducted the backtest from 2018 to the present date in 2023, and on a monthly basis, it has consistently yielded returns ranging from 0.8% to 3%.


I developed it on TradingView, and when a buy or sell signal is generated, I receive an alert in my email with the purchase amount and the price at which the limit order should be placed. Currently, I'm testing it in a real account as a trial with a small capital. Once I have my figures sorted out within 6 months, I'll connect it to 3commas to make it automatic.



EXTRA
I want to clarify that this is in the spot market, without leverage, as I prefer not to engage in leveraged trading. However, it's worth noting that it's possible to leverage up to a maximum of 5X, but the risk increases significantly. Since my strategy is based on averaging prices and volatility, it's possible that using high leverage, especially beyond 5X, could lead to account liquidation before the next purchase. I prefer the spot market because it's more comfortable and aligns better with an investment approach. I mention this in case anyone was considering it.

It is more than enough, in fact, banks can never offer such an amount but can be possible in crypto. As long as you are consistent in your strategy, that certainly works and it can be more especially when the market is moving high. If we have to do this, must still apply the strategy of buying low as I doubt that this will work during the bear season.

As long as we can hold and wait patiently until the price goes high before selling, we can really make a profit from our investment. But if we are impatient, I was certain that it will fail.

Okay, thanks we will see if you've been doing well on the actual since you're good based on your testing with the non actual so should you be done with that, it's nice that you'll share the data.

That's gonna take time and I'd expect that it's like gonna be a roller coaster ride for you. But since you've been doing the test for so long and you believe in what you do and only you know what's happening currently, good luck with that for 6 months and I hope that it will generate you positive outcome.

20% on any measure, if it is the dollar measure, is bad because on average the price may rise by more than that based on the date of the first opening in January and the last close in December or any average of 12 months make more than 20% unless the strategy will guarantee 20% in the bear market season as happened in 2022, which It can be considered good.
But if it is 20% more than Bitcoin, it is very excellent because Bitcoin is POW and other than trading or loans, there is no way you can achieve a guaranteed profit, even by 1%, and through your talk, you may give the user a guaranteed profit of 5% if we assume that 20% is possible, so If the return is in BTC, you can launch a paid service after sending it to trusted people to make vouch copies for you.

It's a really good return, your 100 bringing back 20 is nothing to scoff at, if you look at what banks offer when it comes to returns or rather their interest rates, people are flocking on 5% annual return so yeah I think it's a good return but given it's crypto market, you should know that there's a possibility that you might not be able to continue that kind of return unless you have a solid plan.

What if your predictive model doesn't go as you expected if your historical data doesn't match up with the current data, have thought of what will happen as we progress? What if bull run never comes as we approach halving? Have you tested it? I would love your swift answer because it is even better for you to test your model before even making assumptions on the 20% annual tool, you should consider what will happened if this doesn't go as plan, the back up plan except you want people to come after you if it doesn't go as plan.

Another thing is, when I see any return on investment that exceed 5% in crypto is nothing but hype that is scam or will definitely end up as scam, if 20% is a good return, why don't you improve the model and make it work for only you, if you can prove that your model works in trading, there are plenty of loans to push the project to where objective and aims tell you to achieve.

I will tell you for free, 20% is too high.  :o

In fact, if we look at the risks we face, in my opinion 20% is a small number and not worth it with the big risks in the crypto market, we should be able to get bigger.
However, if you compare it with other investments, 20% is a fairly high return. We also have to look at this realistically because every possible profit will be proportional to the large or small risk we will face.

It mostly depends on the portfolio a person has, if he has more portfolio then due to the fear of loss, 20% is better than loss. But if he invests in this type of annual return, then it is better to have a decent portfolio and get a decent profit. There will be no fear of ending with the loss. Most traders have the fear of losing, if you are one of them 20% is great for you. Just stay with it, and if you have some budget, through which you want to do day trading and want to get more, then it will be also the best choice to start trading with that amount.

And also the profit is even small, it is worth it, doesn't matter how much profit you have. But if you are addicted to your 20% annually and suddenly a bull market starts, then you will regret, that should have invested in some other cryptocurrencies and get a huge amount instead of 20%. The main thing in the annual return is, should be invested more to get more.

You are right, it is generic to say that 20% is a good number for profit, I agree on this at first because 20% is better than nothing or a loss, but return should be associated with the risk. If you get 20% of return in a very high risk trade I guess it is not worth it, WHY? because you could have lose a 100%, is this worth of the risk? I don't think so. I'll say if you get an annual of 20% profit, that's a pretty good strategy. I wonder if we still need to know the frequency of trade here since we need to the 20% comes from a good winning rate as well.

It is a pretty good achievement to be honest and I suggest you go ahead with the same strategy for long-term trading so that 20% annual returns along with the compounding effect will produce great ROI in the next few years.

20% seems very low compared to the volatile nature of crypto assets and I won't be surprised if many others say it's not enough but from an investor perspective this is something too good and if you manage to hit that value for the next few years then your capital will be doubled. But as I always recommend just go with a maximum of 30% as capital for your trading from your total crypto portfolio value and anything beyond is a huge leap towards risk.

20% looks to be low and small ROI in cryptocurrency market where you can see many altcoins pump 100% or 200% or even higher within 24 hours or a week. However if it is about a long term ROI, 20% is a very good profitable rate from trading.

Altcoin enthusiasts can x2 x10 their capital with one or two successful bets but after that, they can quickly lose their capital as well by falling in rug pulled projects and fiascos like Terra and FTX. I think you know well about risk of altcoins so the 20% annual ROI from OP's trading strategy is good one. It's just will it be able to work well in different market phases.

With capital management and allocation for trading, I even self-limit it to less than 10% of my capital. The main part of my capital like up to 90% belongs to long term holding and most of them is in BTC, not in altcoins.

For me that's pretty good already, so if you put a huge capital then you'll also have a decent return from it. But how certain you're 20% is accurate annually? The market is unstable and the profit is depending on its status so if you can make it to be consistent for annual return then it's acceptable.

Anyway, as long as you're gaining that's a good progress. When we trade or invest, regardless of how much we gain, what matter is we profit, right?

20% APR is very good for Bitcoin trading. Over the past year Bitcoin is up 35% so these returns are certainly realistic. Bitcoin isn't as volatile as it was in its early years. It is possible to have many months of sideways price action and it can take a long time to recover from bear markets. If you were buying Bitcoin leading up to its all time high your strategy might have failed and you would have negative returns right now.

It depends on what you mean by an annual return of 20%, is that 20% on top of what the market by itself will offer to a long term holder or do you simply mean a 20% annual return which is independent of the market conditions we encounter?

If it is the first case then that is a great performance and you should use that strategy as you will earn a fortune with it, but if it is the second scenario then you should just remain as a long term holder as you will make more money this way than with your strategy.

I think if an annual return of 20% on the main account is already a good thing, especially if you use large capital, of course a good return, besides that of course the level of risk taken is small, and worth maintaining, besides that we can carry out strategies different, but with different accounts with different rewards and risks, and we can do research so we can conclude a strategy that suits our trading pattern

A 20% annual return is fantastic & a great profit in any type of investment vehicle. Can you guarantee that though, like really guarantee it? Is it safe, is it secure? Are you the only one with access to this asset, is anybody else in control of it, because if they are it’s not a good idea & a recipe for disaster.

Well, for me, that was big enough. If that strategy assures such a return, you can really be making rich in trading, and that is absolutely what people are looking for. But the question is if that will happen in real life. It might be working in your backtesting but was not sure it would work in real trade and you probably know why, it is because of emotional dealing and decision-making. These are some factors that cause a different result, until then, at least earning a 10% return is already satisfying.

Usually, 20% percent profit in a year is very high. If we look at the banks, it is seen that most of the banks are giving 4% percent to 10% percent profit. Now if we look at banks then twenty percent profit is much higher and much more profitable than that. My suggestion is if you don't want to take risks and don't want to trade then 20% percent profit is more important for you.

I feel this is a question only you can answer as, it largely depends on what’s your plan on your trade or capital. I could have even 50% of my capital and still be unsatisfied with the outcome. At other times, I could hope to have several roll over of my capital before the years end and when that isn’t the case, I don’t feel so archived in my aims.

Again, it’s a question of capital. How much capital have you got, how much are you actively trading with and how reliable is your trading strategy. Is it really as it is or you’re just inferring.

Hence, it’s really up to you and I don’t think with a good trading capital, you’ve got much not to be pleased with on a 20% ROI.

Without a doubt, a 20% yearly benefit in the bitcoin market is far bigger and more engaging when contrasted with the nearly mindful rates given by conventional banks. The choice between customary money management decisions, for example, bank investment funds and entering the digital currency market boils down to individual gamble resilience, monetary objectives, and a craving for conceivably better returns.

You are the one who decides whether this annual return is good for you or not, because this varies from one trader to another. Perhaps some of them do not consider this percentage good enough and some of them consider it very good. For me, a 20% annual profit return is very good.

Although I believe that it is difficult to create a strategy with a fixed annual return, if you are actually able to create this strategy, it will be an important achievement and you may be able to share or sell your strategy.

That's a decent return if guaranteed but one cannot be 100% sure about returns or percentage of return in crypto as market may behave differently in the upcoming years than what you have back tested, anyways good luck with your prospect because anyone who is well versed with the other ROI and inflation rate will understand 20% is decent number but the problem arise with mindset of people as they expect 10x 100x returns in crypto and has high expectations because they are still unable to digest that's crypto is not a get rich quick ponzi and sudden pump of certain coins adda up to the expectation building.

Making a profit in USDT staking which is about 7-5% per year was great when the prices didn't inflate yet. These days, you might need a bigger profit, probably more than 20%. So it still depends on your lifestyle or how many mouths you feed.

20% is good depending on how much is your capital and whether it consumes your daily time. And then you have to evaluate whether this strategy works on all occasions because most strategies have flaws especially when it shifts from a bull to a bear market.

I am not sure with some trader have capacity with annual profit every year raise to 20% depend on not consistency earn profit every time with cryptocurrency trading. Based on my experienced in trading, there are not impossible with 20% annual profitable earned in cryptocurrency trading and some trader have ability earn more but not guarantee with consistency profit earned every year. Up and down of profitable earn from trading and seems can't guarantee for 20% annual profitable earn but if market or bitcoin keep stable on higher price has opportunity with higher profitable.

In the bank seems difficult earn 20% annual profitable one year due maximum profitable earn under 10% based on ration deposit interested in my country Bank.

That's the risky stuff that you take on when starting to trade. Not a lot of people end up making a profit right away, not in a single minute, I think it should be important to remember that you are going to end up with some trouble if you are not careful but if you are too careful then you are not going to end up making any profit at all. We should be trying to make some profit when we have the time and we feel like we can risk it, usually it is not all that terrible and it would not mean that we are going to end up with anything that would benefit us.

I know that life is not that simple and we do not feel like risking anything, or we fear that we would risk more than we should, but that's just what this is all about, if we are not careful then we are going to end up with nothing in return. So this is why we need to calculate the risk very well, not small enough that it would not get us any return at all, and not big enough that it would not worth to take on that risk.

In this case, you miss about half of the opportunities when the market is in a downward movement. I think that you will rethink this over time and will trade futures with at least a minimum leverage of x1. In the end, it's almost the same as spot trading.

there's fundamental difference within staking stablecoin and get 7-5% annually, and trading since the risk involved also different, with stablecoin you can be sure your coin wouldn't get eaten by inflation and therefore you can just be rest assured that the coin you staked gonna retain its value and also getting that additional 7% as a profit, meanwhile with spot trading yes, 20% far surpasses stablecoin staking annual yield but you risk your capital to the dumpings which basically could make your capital turns into zero if worst comes to worst.
therefore i don't think 20% is really good enough, too long to get profit, it should be more than that honestly considering the risk. but of course an individual might have different opinion.

20% annual ROI is a good one if it is consistently achievable. Have you developed a strategy that will give you this consistently? If yes, it is a nice return. Other investment which is not related to volatility can boost of 20% ROI and achieve it, but any investment that is volatile is always risky. There is every possibility that throughout a whole year will be a period of bear market as we have seen in this year. In such bear market years it might be difficult for you to hit your return of investment with the tool you developed.

Yes 20% annual return is impressive especially when you are newbie. Numerous people looking for one month rich strategy and as a result they loss so much while your strategy is looking easily achievable because risk involved in btc is very low and you can make it from bitcoin volatility. Some people will not happy with just 20% return nut it's depends upon investment goals and risk tolerance. some want high returns while some will feel comfort and prioritize lower risk with stability.

I am interested to know more about this strategy, if its proves to be easy and low risk then newbies should also try it  of
rather than diving into the high risk coins. Your strategy will not be working same with other, it will help to think about  alternative strategy which is best suitable with our investment management.

It will depend on the currency you invest in. Also, 20% return would be best for BTC because there is no inflation, so you can do it in BTC. Moreover, if you do it in USD it will also be good if you get 20% rater here also your investment can be good. But I think it's best to do it in BTC as it can give you good amount of return and even if its price goes down it will go up again later. and if you hold BTC it will always give you profit and there is no risk of losing your money. Moreover, you have to accept that trading always involves profit and loss. There are some active trading platforms that are not to be trusted, they often give wrong decisions. So you need to gain knowledge about trading well first, and you need to take risk that any time you can lose money by trading.

It does not matter what the OP will get a profit in, the main thing is that this profit is stable. In addition, in a bear market, a profit in stablecoins will be more attractive than a profit in Bitcoins. After all, he can invest his profit in Bitcoins at any time. Eventually, he can invest his profit in Bitcoins at any time, choosing the most appropriate time and price.

I think you should ask this question to yourself, what you find as an acceptable return, not us. Someone may get 100% returns and still not be happy about it while others may be happy with a meager 2%. Getting more than 15% per year is a good return if you ask me, but I would also like to know how much trust you can put in an automated platform rather than your own moves of buying and selling over the long term.

For example you could run the algo there and get that returns while you can also buy at 20k and sell at 70k USD and see the 3.5x profits. I find it easier to sleep when I have my coins in my own control and hence I dont use platforms like these. Rest is yours to decide.

I have two pieces of advice for you here, First, regarding your question, it has to be based on the capital you are using. You can't be trading with $100 and depend on it and still believe that a 20% annual return will be able to pay for your stress, expenses and internet billings. It's better to do something else than to trade and not get a good return from it. For those with big capital, there is nothing bad in that as long as the money is sure. But unfortunately, trading is not guaranteed, results will always vary, even if the trader does not lose annually.

Second, since you've mentioned backtesting and not forward testing, your plan is a failure even before it starts. I've never seen a backtested result that is eventually replicated in the live results, and you might not. Don't just put your mind on it yet.

it is good. 20% per year is the same as if you were a safe investment. if this is some kind of staking I think it is worth it and it is definitely low risk unlike most which use high APY. unless it's trading for 20% annually, that's too little. I think it is better to take even 200% more if it is in the annual term because it is long term.

When you spot trade, you only make money when the price of Bitcoin goes up. But when the bearish market starts, it will be difficult to make a profit because the price will go down. That's why it's also a good idea to use 1x leverage in futures trading to still make a profit even in a down trend, but it's not the same as a spot because it has no liquidation, it's possible that your trade will be liquidated if you don't put a stop loss. That's the only disadvantage I see in futures trading.

Yes, he should have created a back up plan because in cryptos, everything here is unexpected even though 20 percent looks realistic for an annual or yearly return, especially if the strategy is a good one. Some past price movements may not repeat again but when it comes to the halving I think it is always followed or there will always be a bull run that can happen after it.

5 percent is much lower than in 20 but it all depends on the source of the signals or strategies that we are getting because a scam can happen no matter what is the values they are presenting. If he can't prove the credibility of this model, then I doubt even he himself will try it.

If you open a short position with x1 leverage, then your position will be liquidated by the exchange only if the price reaches zero. As you understand, this is practically impossible not only for Bitcoin, but also for most of the top altcoins. And if indeed the price reaches zero, then your spot position will also be virtually liquidated.

Not just good it is great. The average return of S&P500 since 1930’s is ~10%. If you can generate 20% every year and start with $200k, you will be a millionaire in 10 years. That’s x5 return and it beats the inflation... The question is, can you do this every year? Maybe you think %20 is a low number. That happens when you invest a lot in crypto but for the traditional investments, 20% annual returns is a lot and usually unsustainable. If you somehow found a way of making 20% every year, don’t let it go. You are basically printing money.

True. Imagine if you have million to as a starting capital and there's no way that you will lose. I'm sure that strategy would be the greatest strategy of all time if it's an assured 20% annually. But yeah, the consistency is surely uncertain. We don't have a clue how does the strategy work but if I were have that kind of formula and I know it's working, I will continue doing it since I believe it's a good return. The only enemy you have in this kind of strategy is the greediness that is hiding with in you, maybe one day, 20% isn't enough for you and you want to increase it.

Mate, you have something really bad with math) With a yield of 20% per annum, the OP will be able to earn $40,000 in 1 year. Even taking into account the compound interest, OP will not become a millionaire in 10 years. And what is more likely, he may lose them altogether if his strategy turns out to be wrong.

That's a crazy ROI, if you asked me. That's if you meant that the strategy would run on its own and you as a passive partner to earn passively. In simpler explanation, what that translates to if I were to put a figure to it is this – 20% on $100,000 as return on investment is $20,000. That's very enticing for anyone who would earn passively.

If I've a strategy like that and I ain't trading it actively by myself, I would consider 20% a great deal. However, if I'm trading it myself I want to earn higher than that. This is because I will be throwing in my all and wouldn't have the luxury of other commitments like I would when I'm earning passively.

Depending on the asset we are talking about 20% may be a lot or not, if we were talking about stocks I would consider 20% per year to be an unrealistic goal, as some of the best traders there earn 10% per year and that is enough for them to create their own trading firm and manage hundreds of millions of dollars for their clients.

However 20% per year by investing in bitcoin should be possible as even a single trade could be enough to get that amount if you are able to enter at the perfect time, what we do not know is if such a strategy is sustainable, as bitcoin has not existed for long enough to know if this is the case.

Personally 20% annual return is poor and I think that strategy is one that is playing too safe this is with exception to huge capitals. The higher your capital the lower your expected ROI percentage but with a little capital this will definitely not make sense at all, I wouldn't accept a 20% annual return on a $10k dollar portfolio, if it's quarterly it could be considered on basis of consistency.

In as much as we try to be conservative enough not to want to risk so much and not become miserable with losses some percentage on certain portfolio just wouldn't make sense and would look like a joke but for bigger portfolio it will be acceptable as it will definitely make a lot of sense, a typical example would be with a $50millon portfolio 20% per anum is a whole lot and would make a lot of sense as would do when compared to a $10k portfolio per anum that's about $2k, waiting a whole year to get $2k is not making much of a sense when you have $10k in capital.

mindrust is probably assuming that all the gains earned each year will be added to the initial capital and everything will be rolled over.

Year 1 - $240,000
Year 2 - $288,000
Year 3 - $345,600

If he can consistently stay 20% up then it's even possible to become a millionaire in 9 years.

You could probably earn more than that just by sitting on an investment depending on the timing.

I was not saying is not but it was more than enough to consider in trading. If someone got it to work consistently, then you can imagine yourself becoming rich a few years from the time you started. But the question is if that really exists in trading. Because with the volatility of the market and especially when bearish comes to happen, you can never expect such ROI. I would tell you OP that no matter what we do, we can't say there is consistency in trading. You may gain huge today but not sure by tomorrow and in the following days, it might be a big loss.

I don't see it that way at all. Large-scale investors expect average (!) returns of 3 percent per year on projects, e.g. large photovoltaic plants, buildings or large equity portfolios.
Anything above 3% is already considered a utopian high and very unlikely profit. I don't understand how you can say that 20% is not very high. Just calculate that over 5 years ...

Of course, with large-scale investors the invested capital is significantly higher than with our trades, but the idea behind it remains the same: To make constant profits and end up with more money than before the investment. If you want to earn more percentages, you also have to take (significantly) more risk, which, however, over a longer period of time can certainly lead to the fact that the overall balance becomes negative.

You can get an APR of more than 20% on Bitget Flexible savings

I hope you are also considering the trading fees and taking it into account. I have seen strategies that look good but when trading fees is added it's not that great.
20% return is very good I would say, but only if you are able to make it after all the deductions.
I would be happy with anything more than 15% to be honest. Compounding it over the years would give a good return.

People always want more.  If you have a passive income or a standard business then getting 20% ​​annual return from Bitcoin trading is not bad.  But only 20% return will not give you a comfortable life if you want to meet your daily expenses with it. And if you want to live your life with 20% return then you need to trade at least $20k with annual return of $4k which you can live with somehow. So whether the 20% return is applicable to you will depend on your financial status. 20% return is a good return for many but not for everyone

If you can make 20% yearly profit by trading with relatively large amount of money then I will never see that as a bad profit. If you are a good trader and if you have strategy and if you have confidence in yourself that you can make twenty percent profit per year then I will tell you to start trading with more money. When you start trading with more money, your profit will be more at the end of the year. Since with your strategy you can earn 20% profit every year so I think investing more money here is not bad. 

As far as I know trading is risky and not only there is a chance of profit but there is a chance of loss along with the chance of profit so definitely plan your trading with this aspect in mind.

You need to also take into account the long term when looking at those profits, because even if it is true that if you do not have a substantial amount of money already then that 20% may not seem like much, if you keep saving money and you keep booking those profits then at some point your capital will grow to the point you could sustain yourself just with your trading profits, which could allow you to eventually leave your job, become a full time trader and then earn even more money thanks to all the free time that you have now available.

Banks only give a little less than a percent in interest. The Stock Market is giving an average of 8% per year. Bonds give lower return.
Tell me you are sarcastic without telling me your sarcastic. Are you sure you asking if this return is acceptable or not?

Well, it's acceptable since 20% return is considered not just high, but very high already. Now the question is, how consistent you are in doing that. Do you think that you can get 20% annually? TBH, in crypto, there is a way to get that return just by doing basically nothing, and that is thru staking. Both trading, and staking have risks. The only difference is that, you don't need to read charts in staking. Just stake your coins, and wait for it to multiply. There are only a few coins that gives at least 20% though, and most of them are low market cap ones. DOT gives at around 14% annually, ATOM gives ~20%, and most of them are coins that I don't even know.

Overall, 20% return is good already, but it will all comes to how consistent you are in getting that return. I guess good luck with your trading journey, and I hope that you will become a successful trader.

In a volatile and dangerous market, a 20% yearly return on cryptocurrencies is highly appealing. It requires really high risk management abilities to get those outcomes even if your method appears to work well for Bitcoin, it may be worthwhile to investigate how it works with other cryptocurrencies for asset diversification. Finally, while earnings are vital, we must also preserve them since we know how "safe" and "unsafe" assets in the form of cryptocurrency are.

thats true with compounding it will be more worth it but we are talking about annual return of trading here whereas we all know one mistake in making decision could lead half if not entire capital vanish into thin air.
20% honestly is still arguable whether it's worth it or not when it comes to this, if its investment where the risk significantly lesser than trading then its already good enough, even deposits not even half of it.
therefore i don't think its such awesome income either.
honestly if we got that rate as an annual return, we might recalculate whether it worth the risk or not, seeing from past trading history, whether its worth it putting that much capital for such returns.

**Performance in 31 Days:** Forward test
I've completed twelve trades,. Over these 31 days, I've achieved a return of 1.91%, which translates to a daily return of 0.06%. Projected over a year, that would be 22.52%, but this can vary based on market behavior. It's important to note that this is in the spot market. Can it be done in futures? Yes, and with leverage (2x or 3x), you can easily reach 60% to 70% returns due to compound interest. However, I prefer the spot market as I see it more as a long-term investment.

Here's the link to the spreadsheet https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1nfNuJB5ZkewvZ8A9ACPJik0p3Vq1g-TO/edit?usp=sharing&ouid=105063930982027234018&rtpof=true&sd=true where you can see all the trades I've made, a screenshot of how the strategy operates on TradingView, and a sheet of risk. I'll provide another update at 60 days and continue until I reach 180 days, which will conclude my testing, and then I'll consider adding more capital. Feel free to ask anything...

20% is really that easy to gain but of course it would really be needing that somewhat active dealing with the market or simply making up trades on active manner.It doesnt really need up to wait up for a year before you could really be able to reach out this annual gain but if you do really like to have that lesser risks then 20% is enough or good which is way more  than with those banks been offering but if we do speak about staking which APY's are really that something interesting but its not. Risks is there as always on which we do consider that value of crypto doesnt really stay on one place on which tendency or chances
being unprofitable would really be always  there.

Totally it would really be just that depending on you on what are those % returns that you would really be preferring into as long you do make yourself go with the path on which you are comfortable with then
it would really be always falls down into your own choice. We are really that too skeptical and mindful about risks factor which it is really that a normal approach
on which we cant really be just taking actions without minding about those probabilities.

20% is more than acceptable, I would say. In my experience 30% is more realistic if you really know what you are doing and have a lot of years of experience in trading, technical analysis and fundamental analysis. And even then there are many traps for emotional traders to fall into. Even I, myself sometimes do something stupid and act on emotion without even realizing it until its too late.

Everybody is only human. Especially in trading. ::) :P

Calculate your profit and if you are satisfied with it then that percentage annual return is good for you. But money is something that people can't avoid. The more it is the better. It is hard to be happy with what you get. But if you have a plan and think it as an investment then it could be a good solution. 20% annually could be decent amount if you are looking for a slow but steady less risky investment. But in the end it's all about your satisfaction and if you are happy with it then it's all good.

But why stop there? In order to evolve we need to take risks in our life. If we want to become successful then taking risk is inevitable. Spread your investment into multiple stage. You can keep your 20% annual return while you can go for a higher annual return and invest on that. Your 20% annual return will keep on coming while you work on making more money. I think with this strategy you can have the best of the both worlds.

I see that percentage being extremely low for a whole month. I know that 20% a year doesn't sound really bad but it is only if you are not doing anything and just getting that percentage for keeping your funds idle somewhere, but if you are making manual trades and still getting such a low percentage, maybe you should up your game a little bit. I'm not asking you to take bigger risks, but you should gain more knowledge and try to take out more profit from every single trade instead of settling down on just 0.06% per day.

You should at least be able to get 1% profit from each trade of you are that much careful, people get even more and they don't even that such high risks. You should try and learn a bit more about how you should open and close your trades in the spot market and I'm pretty sure that you can get more than that.

Oohh, if you think like a traditional player I think that's surely acceptable but psychologically we humans tend to want more than that. A bear market in crypto with 20% annual return is still low and for me it needs to be higher than that depending on what type of investment you venture or what coins you're holding, that's what matters to maximize a return.

That's super good return. Can you trade for me please?

There is a limit where it's okay to not have more, you will want to have more but it would be ok if you fail to, but under that limit it's just that you end up having life trouble. For example in my nation you can live with 1k dollars a month, that's a good income and you could live with that on a normal period, but what if something goes wrong?

What if you get sick? What if something at your house breaks and you need to buy a new one? I mean all these are extra money, so that means if I make 2k that's good? That sounds about right, not bad, I mean still not rich at all but those urgent things and problems could be taken care of, or at least could be better, but what if 5k? That would be lovely, then I would be able to say that I do not need more money, would I want more money? Sure, but not need that's "want" that's different. So, people are looking to make more than that need, not want, if they make more than they need, that is good, regardless of what the % annual is.

I get your point. An emergency situation could come at any time in our life and for that we need to be prepared. Talking about OP, 20% annual return could be a good start but we should not be limited to only that. Whatever we earn we need to keep saving for those emergency situations. Investment is one thing and saving is another. Investment could bring profit or loss, but savings should be kept aside from everything only for emergency situations.

And when it comes to money, no one is satisfied with what they are making. Look at soccer player Messi or Ronaldo, Don't they have enough money to live their whole life? Yet they are still making money. I'm not comparing us to them because that won't be a logical comparison. But the fact is when there's an opportunity we should always take it. Because unfortunate situations are bound to come and no one knows when it will come.
Once we learn what money is we keep on pursuing it. So I agree that it is not a need but want. Who doesn't want money?

I know that this is purely subjective and according to what someone said in this thread, but I find it difficult finding his username to mention him. Some people like to earn more than they need, while some just want to earn normal and live a comfortable life. In a safe investment, 20% is high and risky. 10% is fair enough. There is no financial advisor that will tell you that 20% annual return is bad.


20% is good, talking about the limitation, we can encourage diversification rather than forcing ourselves to increase the annual return on a particular investment such that it will become risky to maintain consistency.

Generally speaking, 20% is already a good return on investment, especially since we are still in a bear season. But there are more follow-up questions that will make or break it.

1. Is the 20% annual return material to you?
2. How much capital will you risk to make that 20% gain turn into something material and worth the effort?
3. How many trades are needed to reach that 20% annual return?

Because we need to make sure everything is worth our time and effort. Trading can be stressful too.

Another thing to consider is that we are already approaching bitcoin's halving where it is anticipated that a big bull run will happen in the next 2 years. If you check on bitcoin's volatility even at this stage, 20% is not that big. All bitcoin halvings break their previous ATHs the following year. This means bitcoin is expected to reach $69k again or more most likely by 2025. And $69k is more than 200% of the current price.

So if you have ample of time daily to do regular trades and the capital then you can proceed. But if you are a busy person with lots of stuff to do in life then it is better to do a regular DCA or daily cost averaging on bitcoin and maybe on some altcoins.

It was more than satisfying for me as it was huge enough as I could imagine. Yes, that was pretty huge enough for a trader to make a 20% return consistently until 1 year. If I had that kind of strategy, I would say that I have already reached my goal. Why? Because of the volatility of the market and price corrections, it was hard to gain such an amount.

Well, some say it depends on how much your capital is - of course, everyone is expecting a huge possible return if we also have huge capital.
Anyway, just continue your backtesting and try to apply your strategy just to know how effective it was.

Their something I want you to understand in this your concept, does it mean that this short-term bitcoin spot trading have to deal with a bot, if it should be a programming tool it assumed that it's a bot applications you are emphasising on, because if the returns is 20% that means it depends on your funds or capital.

This scenario of yours is not clarify, I would want you to throw more light to elaborate more the program you are using and what is going to be the risk measure using your programming tools to get 20% return..in this kind of thing I think someone have to know the specific amount you can use to get 20% return.

Yes maybe this is some kind of Bot strategy or script in Tradingview and this does not do automatic orders,
this is just a display in Tradingview with indicators that move automatically providing buy or sell guidance. 

With a return of 20% per year, this is a pretty good strategy, but it depends on how much capital is used.
If the capital is only a little, then the profit will also be minimal.

A specific amount?
But whatever he invests if the target is a 20% return it will adjust.
He just uses the available indicators or scripts or he creates his own strategies that he applies to the scripts.

I'd like to give you a warning that some random guys will message you and tell you that they can do that for you. Never entertain any of them and if OP is successful in doing this 20% return yearly with his trading strategies, that's actually a good amount. It's not too good to be true because there will be a lot of obstacles in able for someone to reach this amount. An experienced trader can reach such annual profits with all of the knowledge, basis and strategies that he has learned over all his trading career.

That is true. I have said that in my previous reply. We should not be limited by one investment. If we are getting a fixed 20% annual return, then we should keep it like that. That's a way of passive income and it is going to help in the long run. And rather than increasing the annual return we can focus on other investment that could give us much more which also comes with a little bit of extra risks. When we are getting a passive income in a fixed annual return we can focus on other things like multiple investment in other assets. Or we can use that annual return to start another form of investment or business.

We will be able to keep the main asset while we make the best use of our profits. We can also try something that has higher risk with higher gain. But just to be on the safe side, you should always focus that we only invest what we can afford to lose. Investments are not risk-free so taking a good measure before jumping right into it is a wise choice. Focusing on multiple things rather than one should always come handy in a world where we are facing inflation quite often.

20% on a small account might sound small but if you are managing a big account of say a million dollars, this percentage in profit is more than generous!!

As for the backtesting session, how many times did you test your strategy and were you using the bar replay for this??

Did you factor in any potential news and how it could affect your trading results?? If all this was done with satisfactory results then you could be ready for he real markets.. 8)

20% ROI is more than acceptable unless you want to over-leverage your account for some crazy profits that is likely inspired by most of these YouTube videos that show one trade gaining huge profits !!!

BTW what trading platform do you intend to use??

---

20% is like free money :P and had to check this out...

From what I saw on BItget>> https://www.bitget.com/earning/staking the popular coins don't get the offer anyway near this rate, which isn't surprising as the model is used to hype the smaller tokens/coins  ::)

In my opinion 20% is awesome as return, depending on the risk you are taking with your strategy. It's hard to give a general advice on a trading strategy on the returns alone, because we always need to compare it to the risk you are taking. How long was your back testing and how much did your results? 20% is a nice return when you only lose 10% in a bad period, but when you face risks of losing 80-90% of your portfolio in a year then 20% returns are not enough to compensate for the risk. Let's assume you don't take such high risks with your strategy, then 20% is a great target. Because if you keep reinvesting any profit you make your portfolio is going to grow very quickly in a few years. It’s all about finding a strategy that will bring us consistent returns, so we can keep investing any additional savings we get over time. Back testing is a great tool to see how profitable our strategy would have been in the past. But we also need to be careful, it’s not going to be a guarantee that our strategy will keep performing in the same way. In case you are still unsure with your strategy, I would recommend you start running a live test in a demo account without real money. This way you can keep observing your strategy and maybe adjust it before using any large sums of money.

Hello, I have downloaded the backtest data so that you can better visualize the strategy I am implementing. The backtest covers the period from 2020 to 2023 with a capital of $1,000. In the following link, you will find the spreadsheet where everything is more detailed. Thank you very much for your feedback. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1TCRy0wyyBBvGvz8p2wEyB2RcslsJvZ9eN0gGrHWJOjo/edit?usp=sharing (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1TCRy0wyyBBvGvz8p2wEyB2RcslsJvZ9eN0gGrHWJOjo/edit?usp=sharing)
PLEASE CHECK THE BACKTEST

I want to share the tool I've developed with the community, and the Telegram group is for that purpose, to address questions about my strategy. I need more than 20 people to be able to publish the strategy on TradingView and not waste money in vain. If you want to try it, please join the Telegram group, and when we reach 20 people, I will upload the strategy along with a manual for its use. Thank you. https://t.me/CryptoBeeStrategy (https://t.me/CryptoBeeStrategy)


There is a post where I will be sharing the results of the forward test of my strategy. If you'd like to take a look, here is the link.https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5470605.0 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5470605.0)