Bitcoin Forum

Check it out, its official as of yesterday 10/10/23!

https://www.ngccoin.com/news/article/12210/

Well worth the read, finally announcing!

This is huge for our niche, folks!

  Wow.....250 cas coins....in my dreams!  The Otoh collection...I wonder how many more of these in his other collection :D

   Thanks for sharing this with us...should be interesting!

These coins will probably be a great way for folks who don’t want to deal with software or trusting exchanges but want to get their hands on some Bitcoin to hold. I imagine during the next bull run these could get peeled and still have massive profits. For anyone with some USD saved that has wanted a Casascius coin but didn’t want to trust members of this community, this is the best opportunity you will probably ever get. As for OTOH, I suspect at some point you get enough wealth that owning things like this is more of a pain in the ass than anything else.

Maybe he just needs 50, so he is selling the other 250. 😂😂😂😂

Quite impressive collection…well played Otoh, well played.

Absolutely! I know the announcement has been due for a while now, and I didn't see any thread with the official announcement so I took the liberty of sharing with the group. I am very pleased with NGC finally grading crypto! Now if they could just make the service public on all other outlets, NGC IG, Emails, Website, etc. I have to hand it to Otoh, like 250 Cass coins has to be just a small fraction of his collection. Definitely well played!! Its always good to cash out at some point in this case he has done us a huge favor getting with NGC who has been so stubborn to grade these coins in this space for so long. Otoh has done this at such a great time and for the good of the community, I hope he makes a killing on this!

Perhaps I misread the article but my takeaway is that they did not explicitly state whether this was a one off, are they only grading casascius, and/or are they grading other cryptos.  Therefore, my expectations are tempered until they make a more specific announcement(s), but I do agree this is a good thing.

iirc someone did post about the Otoh collection going up - had to be somewhere as I had seen the link a few weeks back.



NGC does do grading of crypto coins - I have one or two that were graded by NGC - got them a few months back.

how many different ones I do not know though.

Were they loaded crypto coins or crypto themed coins, i.e., Niue?

Wait were all 250 coins submitted purely from Otoh?

Appears that way. Quite a flood at once IMO. :D 

Very cool. Especially since they're labeled "The Otoh Collection". I expect these will go for relatively high premiums.

Congrats Otoh!

Does anyone know if they accept Bitcoin as payment? I can't find any information on the website

I don't think so... :(

Below are some common answers to questions on the topic you selected:
What are your payment options?

https://fineart.ha.com/c/contact-us.zx?ref=&topicId=10#answer

Edit this site seems pretty high end but must deal with all sorts of scams judging by the "Email me!" pages lol... IDK.

Never been a mainstream online auction house-follower either, so there is that as well.

Now that I look deeper, I may contact them about a rare 1969 set of sterling dinnerware that my parents received at their wedding and was never used or opened, so in great shape box and all.

They seem to deal with all sorts of different stuffs.... I'll let ya know! :D

Hold up I just found it...

"Heritage offers extended payment plan options up to six months to qualified, pre-approved clients on select items. Please email eppgroup@HA.com or call Client Services for more information. We also accept Bitcoin and Ethereum on invoices over $5,000 subject to approval. Please email Bid@HA.com or call Client Services for details."

but what also sucks is this...

"A deposit of $5,000 or more is necessary in order to participate in this auction. Heritage reserves the right to determine the amount of deposit to be submitted"

Ah.. Nice find! I thought it might be possible via a contact or the right channel, but I have no idea really... That is a bit much, but I guess it's understandable considering the risk factors.

Then again, Id' probably need a deposit of that much in some $ or proof thereof even to participate anyhow, amirite? :P

I spoke to them extensively on the phone today, they don’t usually do the $5000 deposit thing, but because of the value of each coin that’s what you got a pay to play. I have the credit app and I’m filling it out tomorrow to submit it, when I find out the terms I’ll let everybody know on the site. Being able to pay in bitcoin would be a major plus.

You would think that eventually they would allow this and we can only hope for it! Time will tell

This auction is delusional in scale for a first offering.

"The Heritage Auctions sale includes 150 brass coins that are denominated 1 Bitcoin and 100 brass coins that are denominated as 0.5 Bitcoins."

We are looking at 200BTC load value in this auction, just shy of a cool $5.5 million.

Who they will find to come in and gobble these up with $5.5 million + is anyone's guess.

Is this a signal of the start of the next bullrun?

Wow! This is a huge moment in crypto collectibles!

Currently looking at the credit app and the requirements and it is borderline an "anal probe" about 2 feet inside. lol. along with $5k deposit bank wire they want a letter signed by bank like a power of attorney  that allows the bank to release all banking account info showing current balances and such to the auction house. along with a resellers tax ID and a personal guarantee. As a long time business owner the only time I have seen more credit verification needed from myself was when I was trying to get a loan on a commercial piece of property, its almost that deep of a dive. I will continue to keep you all posted on my experience if you like.

Uh, that sounds horrible. Thanks for reporting and going down that rabbit(butt)hole.
I really wonder how many potential collectors will be willing to go through all this to buy a Cas coin.

A total of 250 Cas suddenly available on the market - always great to see an extended distribution of these historic pieces. Just wonder if there will be enough high-roller buyers to take that opportunity. Maybe one or a few big whales jump in to buy up the majority of these coins. Exciting times.

Oooof, that is a big no from me.  I understand the deposit, but the rest is far too much.

keep in mind, all that added info is if you want to take part in their financing program only, if your paying cash its a little less info that they need for verification

I was excited about this auction but I'm out. This is essentially a KYC process for Bitcoins that have never been KYC'd.

This will be very similar to buying Bitcoin on exchanges. Exchanges know exactly how much BTC you have purchased, I don't want to be on file for buying a Casascius coin too.

I wish I would get my hands on a piece someday in future HERE.  ::)

They say that Otoh "was a nice old Britishman".  ;D

lol  ;)

The NGC coin grading, and this auction, is primarily to preserve these coins as a piece of the early Casascius physical bitcoin production for prosperity, and also to test, and hopefully encourage the wider numismatic collectors market for this presently, relatively niche, field.

I've sold all of my digital crypto over the years and the physicals were always my long term 'cold storage' option, now after more than ten years it seems the right moment to let these go, it isn't primarily about getting the maximum return, when I consigned them bitcoin was at $30,000/BTC, and of course it was 50/50 if it would be lower (as now), or higher when they came to auction, it will be interesting to see how they do in such a high profile US auction house, hopefully they'll appeal to some collectors there, and maybe pique the interest of others, and some MSM coverage perhaps.

If the sale does do well, ie over the peel value anyway, then there may be a part 2 & 3 (or more) of my collection offered over the next few years, with both much rarer and higher denomination offerings, plus BTCC goodies, if it gets stuck around the spot price on Nov 3rd then I'll rethink, but for now I'm excited to offer this hoard preserved through a wild west volatile early decade to new custodians and enthusiasts to enjoy the subsequent decades of ups, downs, thrills and spills.

www.otoh.com

Historic auction, kudos to you! I’m sure it will catch a lot of eyes. If I had the money I would be bidding.

I am hodling a few kinds of the BTCC items, e.g. a Baby Five - a titanium 5btc denormination coin which is smaller
in diameter than the regular 5's ti coin and the total number of it ever produced was only 5 pieces.
In a word, let's wait and see, man and cheer together!

The timing seems early to me. But, you can't sell to an auction house spontaneously when things are hot, you have to plan it way in advance and hope the market is right when it happens. Otoh probably thought the Fall would be a decent bet on timing everything. This is definitely a lot all at once. I think I probably would have sold 25 to 50 at a time versus this quantity in one event. There could be some deals here for people and it sounds like these are in pristine condition straight from Caldwell.

amazing collection Otoh. congrats... fingers crossed for the auction!

someone (Cryptogreatdane?) should do a podcast with you. could be interesting to know how you started your collection etc..

Yep, these were all bought directly from Mike Caldwell in 2013, so they have the very best provenance, in fact they were still in their original vacuum sealed tubes when they went for grading at NGC.

https://imgur.com/a/mIVPmrd

It is quite a lot to offer in a first sale, but I wanted to make a splash with it to get collectors and auction houses attention, perhaps it is a bit early timing wise when bitcoin is still seen as a risk asset, rather than as a safe haven one like PMs, but the buyers of these can almost certainly look forward to new ATHs in the next couple of years with the halving and probable US ETFs around the corner, plus the bottom being most likely already in already and tested.

Ideally this may mark the start of a much wider market for physical crypto with premiums being paid, or at least that being a potential in the future, a lot of collectors are always looking for the next thing which has high growth possibilities, ie like 'undiscovered' contemporary artists, or that market may begin once the buyers of this offering start to find that it's performing way better than any of their other assets in a couple of years time or something.

Wow, regardless of timing, or other specifics, this is one HELL of a pirate loot getting auctioned off. Exciting times, and i wish you the best with the results!

Greets, Tank

But a buyer's fee of 12.5% matters.

https://coins.ha.com/information/physical-cryptocurrency.s (https://coins.ha.com/information/physical-cryptocurrency.s)

I submitted all my paper work for heritage waiting on a reply on financing, I must say the people who work at heritage are super nice and extremely helpful, the place is first class for sure. A thought I had this morning , the average supply made daily by bitcoin mining is about 900 coins a day.  The daily demand is about 1,100 btc a day,  so this auction is going to supply about 1/4 of the daily demand. This auction is going to be super interesting in my opinion. :)

That's the price of moving the market into the mainstream, whether it's an artist being represented by an agent or gallery, any major auction house and even retail establishments, there will be added costs, the alternative is to sell items oneself ie on BTF, or just peel and destroy the artefacts, my decision was to go down the major auction house route with the increased exposure that their marketing, clout and collectors base will bring.

This article is a masterpiece, it stands as a testament to every physical bitcoin collector out there, for years we knew deep in our gut that these coins have immense value even above their face value, this article validates every physical bitcoin collectors beliefs and it’s apparent this article just turned our beliefs into Truth on the national stage.
    This article should be its own separate post in the collectible section in my opinion, Bravo to Otoh and Heritage Auctions.  

I agree 100%. To purchase one of these coins for yourself to add to your collection and pay 12% is a small price to pay when you think about the value this auction is going to give to the rest of collectors current physical crypto coin collection. This auction in my opinion is the sacrifice needed to put this industry on the international stage and into the main stream of coveted rare collectibles.

   Yep...this auction is one for the ages for sure!  Does anyone know if there are any reserves for these coins?

I haven't placed any reserves on the coins personally, but I have been guaranteed by Heritage the overall bitcoin spot value for the collection as a whole, if say the spot price was $30,000/BTC on the 3rd of November, then I would get a minimum of $30,000 x 200 = $6M, which as I understand it some could then sell for under spot perhaps and some for a premium, though I'm not sure on this, as it's totally up to Heritage if the want to post a reserve on the coins or not, I guess it's best to either wait and see if they do that, or to contact them directly to find out what their intentions may be if they are willing to share, or have even decided upon it yet.

Maybe they're happy to buy in any coins if they don't reach the spot price, to hodl themselves, or even to peel if they didn't want to do that (but that could be controversial I'd imagine, so hopefully not), there's also about $200/BTC (I think) in forked coins which add value over the BTC spot price. Edit: looks like $335/BTC ATM for the forks 23/10/23.

So it's a bit like selling say gold bullion collectables, unlikely to go for under the melt (peel) price on the day, and more likely to merit a premium for their rarity, desirability and future growth potential, but it will all depend upon demand, plus probably many outside factors, it should be good price discovery in any case and entertaining to watch, especially in what happens to their value in the subsequent few years, and over their next decade of existence.

Status: Reserve (If Any) Will post on 10/27/2023 7pm CT

Reserve (If Any) Not Posted Yet:
Although many lots will not get reserves, this signifies that we have not yet posted any reserves to this entire auction. Reserves are usually posted approximately 3 days prior to the closing for Internet-only auctions, and approximately 7 days prior to the live session for Signature auctions. At that point, any unmet Reserve will become both the price shown (with an asterisk) and the Minimum Next Bid, regardless of any previous bids.

@Otoh,

Good luck with your auction. 🥂

Wishing you the best and a great outcome on your auction.

Aloha

I second this. Also, sounds like you have a great agreement with Heritage.

Watching  ;)

First off we'll done otoh.  This market always needed that movement.  But with a 12.5% vig, what are your realistic expectations on these.  Over the past several years these brass ones held small "over face" value?  I guess it's anyone's guess because a fiat whale with no way to know or realize the other avenues to get these or trust to get these might pay well over (which I hope for you and all of us).  Looking forward to see how this unfolds.  🙂

I think that Heritage are doing a great job here, I believe that they've just sent out some nice glossy catalogues, taking it as a given that bitcoin is here to stay, then at some stage there's going to be a collectors, and investors, market for these early historical physicals and others, I don't know when that's going to happen but I believe that it will be via exposure like this rather than niche sales here on the BTF (which are also great in their own way, and are how I bought much of my collection), so this is a test to discover what the interest may be now at about ten years in.

I have absolutely no expectations, realistic or otherwise, maybe there'll be some premiums, or maybe that'll happen once the buyers of these see substantial future gains, and then some of these will start to come back onto the market again, even if those are only mostly bitcoin price appreciation gains, which I'm certain we'll see, and that probably even in the next few months.

I've been guaranteed the spot price and I'm totally happy with that, the alternative would have been to peel them, or to just leave them in a safety deposit vault indefinitely, I prefer this option as it should preserve them, and hopefully it will help to get this market kick started in the wider mainstream, I do have a bunch more of different Casascius, BTCC offerings (many of which I hand carried out from Shanghai) & some other noteworthy physicals (ie a couple, or so, of 1,000,000 DOGE coins, Etc - Nice if one of those could be landed on the moon one day, or at least to pay it a visit) that can follow this, and which I hope that these will also add value to this Part 1 of my collection in the future, with their 'Otoh Collection' provenance.

A couple of friends, one who had sold/peeled or gifted all of their physicals, and the other as yet to get any, approached me in the last few days with interest to pick up some of the other physicals which I hold, so it does seem that this auction is kindling an interest in this area (anyway from that small sample).

Whatever happens it is only the beginning of what I trust will be a fun, groundbreaking and exhilarating series of auctions.

It's a really a very good news for all of us and the whole industry. Otoh, you're a great pioneer, thank you.

Yeah again +1 for you Otoh. Nice to see a man with a big vision now and then! Excited!

Greets Tank

This post has aged pretty surprisingly well, so far at least, considering that not so many would have thought we'd be up around here just one week later I imagine.

https://tinyurl.com/yur47w5z (https://tinyurl.com/yur47w5z)

I was thinking the same exact thing this morning lol, (I was doing the math) I will be watching the auction, I hope it goes great! 🙂

Otoh, hope you’re well and glad you’re still hodling the 1MM Doge — that is such a special coin. Best of luck on the auction. You sure have the right mindset. Appreciate you releasing these beautiful coins into the wild!

All the best,
Blu

Bitcoin will be at $35,000 very soon, it's a beach ball being held under water ready to pop.

I can feel it in my bones. The bull is officially here.

Very good call!

Thank you sir! I really did feel it.

Onwards and upwards.

YVW!

I noticed that some posters were asking if people could pay in bitcoins for this auction, and the answer is yes sure they can, so long as they register ahead of time if they are new customers.

(Correct me if I’m wrong), from what I understand they’re using BitPay to take payments and transactions. If you plan on bidding and plan to pay with crypto you should register with BitPay and get verified ahead of time so you can pay for your items in the suggestion timeframe that the auction house requires.

I'm sure that you're right, I'll just check this with them to make sure and will report back when I hear, tomorrow probably..

https://www.ha.com/c/contact-us.zx?ref=&topicId=45#answer

Gross total sales of the Heritage auction was $7,198,200.00 divided by 200 bitcoin listed in the auction made the average sale price per physical  bitcoin $35,911.  

At the auctions current run time bitcoin spot price was right around  $34,600.

Average sale price per coin $35,911 minus spot price is $34,600 = $1,391 premium profit per bitcoin

$1,391 X 200 bitcoin = $278,200 total premium profit .

So the legendary Otoh made an extra $278k profit by selling his coins instead of peeling them


So what did he teach us?    “PEELING IS A SIN!”   Lol

At the end of the day the average cost per “Cas” coin loaded back in 2013 was probably $100 bucks.  
$100 X 200 bitcoin = $20,000.

Otoh was promised spot price on his coins so 200 bitcoin X spot price of $34,600 = $6,920,000

Otoh’s total profit for holding a $20k investment for 10 years was $6,900,000.


I got four words for you Otoh …..  “Bravo my friend, Bravo”

You deserve it,  Crongrats to A Legendary HODL’r.  ;)

you forgot to add in the cut they AH takes or is your initial number after their cut? you said gross so I am assuming its not in the calculation. need the net total.

and you forgot to count all the forks. how much that is - not sure, but would have increased the peeling value - that and then selling the peeled coins on the side.

My guess is peeling them would have been more profitable. Also having Bitcoin vs shitcoin fiat

I'm waiting to hear from Heritage a few more details on the sale, they didn't charge me any seller's premium, or fees, at all BTW.

The price when I consigned them on the 18th July 2023 was about $30,000/BTC, so it moved over 20% up from then.

https://tinyurl.com/yn4nk92g (https://tinyurl.com/yn4nk92g)

The five dominant forked coins (BCH, BSV, XEC, BTG & BCD) were at $336.86/BTC the day before the sale, so $67,372 in total for the 200 BTC.

Yep, rsincognito, many thanks, these are the original online auctions where I bought some of these:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=175969.0;all (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=175969.0;all)

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=175972.0;all (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=175972.0;all)

2013 03 17 Purchased 3 rolls of 50 x 1 btc Casascius series 2, windowed = 150 x 1 BTC @ 1.0487 btc = $49.81 ($50.60 my cost each incl. p/p) <--- I kept all 3 rolls vacuum sealed together. These have now been NGC graded & auctioned with Heritage 2023 11 03, plus 2 rolls of 0.5 BTC, total 200 BTC.

https://tinyurl.com/ym3f2bxc (https://tinyurl.com/ym3f2bxc)

These old links showing the original sales of the Cas coins is so Amazing to look at , crazy if we could go back in time with the knowledge we know now.  This makes me Love Bitcoin even more after seeing all this.   Thank you Otoh :)

All good points.  Ty :)

Did all the coins sell out?

Some were bought in and I've agreed to take most of those back from Heritage, plus a very large cash lump sum, rather than insist on the original guaranteed spot price for them all, not sure ATM quite how many as there may well be some after sales to add as well.

That would make sense being that a lot of the 0.5 Cas coins were stuck at $14,825, coin after coin after coin said that was it sale price. Part of me thought it was the auction house protecting itself from a loss and looks like that is the case, so it was not a true “no reserve” auction as represented. I had a feeling that the money was going to get soft at the end and it looks like it did, so basically all my calculations that I did last night and posted here are completely incorrect. But it was still fun auction. :)

Do we know how many sold to bidders and at what prices?

 Congratulations on your sale Otoh!  For everyone else you can watch what happened on the video here

   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sRE0txfjfL0

Did you mean that no bidder could win a 0.5 at 14825?

There were auto bids at $14,825 and if they wanted to buy one They had to bid $14,900 and they could own them ( a lot of them). The money got soft towards the end, had a feeling that might happen,  but it was still an amazing time , and there were way hire premiums on the MS68. the MS67’s were for sure the best bang for your buck,  everything with a grade lower then MS67 could not be bought cheaper then the ms67 price level ,  the m68’s we’re about double premium.


Edit; I forgot a very important part 🙄.  None of these prices I talked about had the 20% buy fee calculated into it , so add 20% to everything for the out the door price ,  and if you bought with a business account or were you in a tax friendly  state? so you didn’t have taxes on top of the 20%

Heritage just auction off 4 Casascius 2013 coins left over from the original Otoh collection auction last year  ,  they brought good premiums.

2013 cas coin 1.0 btc MS66
Brought $43k + 20% buyers fee  = $51,600 sale price
Link:  https://ibb.co/WGjkzJY


2013 cas coin 0.50 btc MS67
Brought $27k + 20% buyers fee = $32,400 sale price
Link: https://ibb.co/QnTW19S

(At the time of sale btc market price was $47k)


Basically anyone who purchased from the original Otoh auction has made good bank off their investment when you compare original auction premiums and btc market price to todays sale premiums and market price.

That is all :)

So does this mean the seller only gets $43k though when the value of BTC if peeled was 47k? Seems like the only winner here is the auction house who is getting a huge commission.

SP

I learned that lesson a long long time ago after dealing with estate sales. In my experience, auction houses are never a good idea. They make money either way and can be motivated to do a bad job promoting in order for their partners to get great deals. Imagine getting paid so your friends can get goods below value. That’s what auction houses (at least the bad ones) will do for you.  This particular auction and timing were at best ill advised.

if you look back in the history of this thread i think Otoh himself said that the auction house promised him at least btc market value, im not sure how the funds were chopped up honestly.

Heritage auctions is at it again during a regular coin auction they slipped  in two Casascius coins which both sold

Lot #1: 2013 brass 1.0 Btc MS66 final sale price including buyer auction fee.
Sold for : $69k. (at the time of writing this, bitcoin spot value for 1.0 btc is $52k)

Link to item:  https://ibb.co/WkJ7J30


Lot#2: 2013 brass 0.50 Btc MS66 final sale price including buyer auction fee.
Sold for : $36k. (at the time of writing this, bitcoin spot value for 1.0 btc is $52k)

Link to item: https://ibb.co/pfxBpQ5



Hope you all enjoy the info :)     RS

Yes, as rsincognito said


Someone flipped one of my Otoh collection Casascius 'Leet' BTC today, it sold for $69,000 (including the buyer's premium)

Heritage wouldn't have charged any seller's premium as it was re-offered through them

The vendor bought it for $34,800 (incl. BP) about three months ago on 3rd Nov, so it made over 98% profit, nice timing!

and the 0.5 BTCs seem to be even more desirable, as they flipped one of those for $36,000 (incl. BP)

https://coins.ha.com/itm/cryptocurrency/cryptocurrency-casascius-brass-loaded-unredeemed-1-bitcoin-btc-2013-ms66-ngc-/a/232407-63200.s?ic2 (https://coins.ha.com/itm/cryptocurrency/cryptocurrency-casascius-brass-loaded-unredeemed-1-bitcoin-btc-2013-ms66-ngc-/a/232407-63200.s?ic2)

https://coins.ha.com/itm/cryptocurrency/cryptocurrency-casascius-brass-loaded-unredeemed-1-bitcoin-btc-2013-ms66-ngc-/a/3112-32142.s?ic16=ViewItem-Inventory-BuyNowFromOwner-PreviousPricesHeritage-081514 (https://coins.ha.com/itm/cryptocurrency/cryptocurrency-casascius-brass-loaded-unredeemed-1-bitcoin-btc-2013-ms66-ngc-/a/3112-32142.s?ic16=ViewItem-Inventory-BuyNowFromOwner-PreviousPricesHeritage-081514)

Actually not quite +98% as they'd get the hammer price of $57,500 and then a share of the buyer's premium, probably 50% = $5,750 of it, but could be more if the negotiated well, anyway at least $63,250 in total

I got 50% of the buyer's premium when I sold, on top of the hammer price, next time I'd try and strike an ever better deal, I was very impressed by Heritage's cataloguing, write up and marketing on my original sale, and I am super happy that all the buyers are well in profit so soon after the auction, as predicted, and that the secondary market at Heritage is proving to be both liquid and strong, it is very rare indeed to be able to re-offer auction buys in any fields so soon after winning them and not to then get a huge loss, let alone to be able to realise an almost 100% gain, all thanks to bitcoin in the main part, and we've only at the start of discovering what the ETF inflows will bring and how this wider interest in crypto will effect the physical collectables market.

I doubt that any other item sold, of the millions of dollars worth of offerings at Heritage, in these last three months, has performed as well, or at any other auction house either for that matter, except for similar bitcoin and crypto offerings at places like Stacks Bower, this won't have escaped collector's attention I'm sure.

Just for the record, the price was about $52,000/BTC at the time of this auction.

Otoh,

Can you briefly describe the process and logistics of auctioning those 250 coins?

I am mostly interested in knowing:

• How were they transported to Heritage? What was the security like?
• Did you end up receiving more or less than the value of the BTC from the auction?
• Were there any costs to you?

I still have that bar and I don't feel comfortable holding such a valuable item, but I would hate to peel it. Perhaps I could auction it on Heritage.

Im sure they would LOVE to auction that beast off.
Timing seems right as well, to me at least...

Greets Tank

Antique single Casascius coin 2013 1.0 Btc MS68 coins is getting auctioned off in the next couple days, link below.

Link:  https://coins.ha.com/itm/cryptocurrency/cryptocurrency-casascius-brass-loaded-unredeemed-1-bitcoin-btc-2013-ms68-ngc-/a/232409-65215.s


Enjoy :)

Sure, I took the coins out of my private bank's safe deposit box and met up with Heritage's London director, Sara, at the bank's secure meeting room, I'll PM you the exact place in case that was convenient for you to use as well, we chatted with Heritage head office in Dallas to sort out the fine details of the deal, though those also got tweaked a few times right up to the sale itself, she took delivery from me right there and gave me a receipt to itemise them and showing that they were now insured for their bitcoin spot price @ $30,000/BTC = $6M, she either took or had them shipped to Dallas at Heritage's expense and handled any and all paperwork involved in that, because I consigned them from my tax haven fiscal location there was no US, or other jurisdiction's, income or capital gains tax liability on the sale, even though the auction took place is the States.

Because of the deal I made, which guaranteed me a minimum of the bitcoin spot price at the time of the sale, and then a later deal with guaranteed me a large lump sum to be paid to me in two weeks, plus for any unsold coins to be returned to me the whole working out of the accounts was rather convoluted and complicated, I also got 50% of the buyer's premium paid to me after 45 days, the bitcoin price was rising so fast and much that it all ended up very positive for both Heritage, myself and all of the buyers as well.

I didn't pay any shipping or seller's premium, I was meant to be charged for the NGC slabbing, but haven't gone through the settlement accounts yet to see if I actually was and how much if so, I don't think that I paid anything towards to catalogues printing and photography, etc, but again would need to check that to be sure.

Basically you'd need to negotiate your own deal with them, unless you did it through an agent who'd do that on your behalf.

Hope that this helps, will PM some more details...

all great info, thank. you Otoh. =)

Good to see them making it to the numismatic collectors circle.

New sale!  2013 Cas coin 1.0 btc MS68: SOLD!   Hammer price was $65k plus 20% buyers fee. Final
Purchase price $78k

Link :  https://ibb.co/3pNzknd

Another ATH record for an Otoh Collection 1 BTC resale: $78,000 including buyer's premium  8)

https://coins.ha.com/itm/cryptocurrency/cryptocurrency-casascius-brass-loaded-unredeemed-1-bitcoin-btc-2013-ms68-ngc-/a/232409-65215.s?type=bidnotice-tracked-endofauction

Ooops, sorry, just noticed already was posted above  :-[

These are incredible.

The fact that these coins are going for these figures is astounding to me. These are on their way to being some of the most expensive numismatics in the world

That's amazing! Congratulations Otoh, this sale was an absolute hit! This was a win win win for everyone involved. Didn't you say you meant to do another one with Heritage soon?

Yes indeed, I am in talks with them now about that, if it goes ahead then there'll be much more variety and rares on offer this next time, I don't want to list more than the present physical crypto collectors market can comfortably absorb, but on the other hand I do want to make a bigger splash with an amazing catalogue, and maybe facilitate some whale/s to make a potential one off world class collection/s in an easy swoop if they liked, and to also allow others to pick up some of the rarer gems that are getting very hard to source nowadays, so I have inventoried for a Part 2 and am awaiting their feedback on that.

A lot of the coins I had slabbed by ANACS between 2014 and 2016, most in early 2014, when they were the only game in town for that, so they have great provenance, kind of like the old green label slabs for regular coins from PCGS, and also it wouldn't have been cost effective for anyone to make forgeries back then so that helps, the only issue though is ANACS were very slack and didn't give many of the coin's addresses on their verification links page, or photos of them, they did offer to put this right afterwards but I didn't want to keep shipping them back and forth as they were rising in value a lot, so I'll need to decide if keeping the old slabs, asking Heritage to send photos to ANACS and the addresses for them to add, or to re-slab them with NGC in 'Otoh Collection' slabs instead, I did feel that ANACS graded them rather conservatively back then as well, so it could be that they'd do better now if resubmitted to NGC, but perhaps Heritage will think that maybe the market could prefer them in the old slabs, no idea or preference myself, and I will be guided by them on it all.

ie, this is five of six of them, where they did actually list addresses and post photos in their verification links:

4589722 (https://portal.anacs.com/Verify/CertVerification.aspx?cert=4589722)   2011       TOKEN   1 BITCOIN "CASACIUS" IN   HOLOGRAM BRASS 19r1SK9y   MS 67       
4589723 (https://portal.anacs.com/Verify/CertVerification.aspx?cert=4589723)   2011       TOKEN   1 BITCOIN "CASACIUS" IN   HOLOGRAM BRASS 19GYM8Xj   MS 67       
4589724 (https://portal.anacs.com/Verify/CertVerification.aspx?cert=4589724)   2013       TOKEN   CASASCIUS 0.1 BITCOIN   SILVER 1AgyC8At   MS 67       
4589725 (https://portal.anacs.com/Verify/CertVerification.aspx?cert=4589725)   2013       TOKEN   CASASCIUS 0.1 BITCOIN   SILVER 1AgyyPm3   MS 67       
4589726 (https://portal.anacs.com/Verify/CertVerification.aspx?cert=4589726)   2013       TOKEN   CASASCIUS 1 BITCOIN   SILVER 1Agw6y5i   MS 67   
    
4589727 (https://portal.anacs.com/Verify/CertVerification.aspx?cert=4589727)   2012       TOKEN   5 BITCOINS "CASACIUS" IN   HOLOGRAM BRASS 1BtwEsTB   MS 66   

but most are like the last one with no photos, therefor not even showing their addresses, the same as that one, so this needs dealing with before they're submitted to an auction

I cant wait. Im gonna dress up like a Japanese schoolgirl with pompoms, just for the occasion!

Dont judge me!

Tank

Very exciting news! Thanks for that update. Hmmmm that is surely quite a predicament you've got yourself in. I would have to agree on your comparison to the green labled slabs w/ PCGS for those crypto ANACS slabs. That is definitely a tough nut to crack. Honestly you might be right though in what you said about them being graded very conservatively and  might be better off getting them re-slabbed/re-graded through NGC, as you said. I think just for your namesake alone having them slabbed and labled with your collection pedigree would be more appealing to the collection but on the other hand the ANACS slabs offer a vintage feel and are semi historic being that you can't replace them becuase ANACS doesn't grade crypto anymore (Pity). Good luck with the gathering and careful consideration here! I'm sure this next sale of yours is going to be quite the sight!

In my opinion, I feel that any early graded physical crypto that is in an ANACS slab should stay that way...
The historical worth far out-weighs any bump up in grade value that you would get auctioning said coin.

Many thanks for the input MJ, much appreciated, yep these are early historical slabs, and even though ANACS was a bit of a chaos at that time with the new crypto field that they were the first to try and handle, so they made tons of rookie errors, like not putting Cas addies on the slabs, or uploading photos onto their verification links, which perhaps can be corrected via Heritage now, and even with minor typos on a couple of the addies, it probably would be best as you recommend and to leave them all as is, and I expect that is what Heritage will also advise.

A bit like error coins, they where genuine mistakes at the time and old slabs can never be repeated, even if they appear to be a bit naive in how they were trying to genuinely get a grip on all that new fangled crypto stuff back then, nearly a decade ago.

I'm all for preserving the history if possible, rather than attempting to maybe maximising potential returns, the good karma of doing the right thing will more than make up for it all.
 

I too love the historic ANACS slabbed coins. This may sound crazy, and I am kinda half kidding. . . but not really, could you treat the whole slabbed coin as a collectible and would PCGS slab the slab? They have been slabbing Kialaras, cas bars etc, I would think a yellow slab would fit into one of those larger slabs and would be super cool way to preserve the yellow, error, and early labels etc., but still update to PCGS. I can’t imagine they would ever even consider doing this, but it would be super cool in my opinion.

Otho collection is out of my range, but just a thought.

Geophphreigh

damn I love this idea so much, and wow would a ANACS yellow slab look so amazing inside an oversized PCGS slab. please make it happen M.J.  ;). lol

Ha, I'm not sure I have that kind of crypto-witchcraft up my sleeve... but I am happy to try

We would have "slab inception" then... lol :P

I know grading companies will do things like cross-grading, but this is another level!! :D

Honestly this is a really good idea. Considering they are a retired category and historical ANACS collectible I feel like NGC would hear that argument out, grading a slab and putting it in another Slab it's actually not unheard of so to speak, this concept was employed with a 2019 'slab shaped' medal in October 2023 to commemorate 5 years of NGC's Shanghai office. Check it: https://www.ngccoin.com/certlookup/4895888-161/70/

I shall certainly ask Heritage about this, the problem I imagine though is that ANACS didn't take photos of the coins before it slabbed them.

Heritage celebrating the $78,000 record at the top of their latest newsletter:

https://coins.ha.com/heritage-auctions-newsletter/world-coin-news-another-heritage-world-record-the-highest-selling-2013-casascius-loaded-unredeemed-1-bitcoin-btc-.s?id=6465

They also sold earlier this week, by private treaty, for $73,629 each on the singles and $38,314.50 on the half, when the spot price was at $62,629/BTC, before the new bitcoin ATH
2 x 1 BTC MS67 & a 0.5 BTC MS66, which had been bought in by them from the Otoh sale, ie hadn't reached the reserve which Heritage put on them back then

Four more of the previously unsold Otoh coins being re-offered in Heritage's May auction

https://coins.HA.com/c/search.zx?saleNo=3115&collection=164&FC=0&type=friend-consignorpreview-notice

Just to say that I reached out to NGC asking if they'd be prepared to grade some further coins that I have, they took three weeks and a couple of reminders to respond:

Thank you for contacting us. I am sorry we will not be able to grade additional physical coin cryptocurrency. I have confirmed with the NGC team that the coins shown in our article were graded as a one-time special grading for Heritage. There are no current plans to open up grading services to these coins. Again, I am sorry we cannot help with these coins. 
 
I have reached out to PMG to confirm if physical cryptocurrency banknotes would be eligible for submission. I will provide you with an update as soon as possible.

So basically they're not interested, I asked about some Polymerbit notes as well and will update when I've heard back from them on those.

Wowwwwww, that is such a huge dissapointment that NGC will not continue to grade even Cass coins. It really is a shame, its like taking two steps forward and one HUGE step back. PCGS will remain the clear choice for serious collectors. I just can't believe this dimwitted move on their part, especially in a time when Bitcoin literallly just hit a new all time high & ETFs have rolled out from all the largest financial titans with insane volume. I really like NGC too, but I think they will look back on this and realize how much of a mistake they are making there.

On the flip side of this coin, Otoh, that just makes these coins that much more valuable and this is extrememly good for your  pedigreed collection in my opinion! This makes and seals your coins the crown jewel crypto collectibles for NGC. Man I sure wish I could afford one haha.

Yeah, I agree 100% and was totally taken by shocked surprise that instead of embracing this new field that they choose not to after such a fine initial well received start, I even offered to submit any further coins again through Heritage rather than directly if that worked better for them, but apparently not, perhaps Heritage will have greater sway with them about grading more, especially as an exclusive (if that's what they want) NGC graded Otoh Collection Part 2 which would be a whole other level in terms of value, rarity and desirability, and as you say during a time of ATH BTC prices and general interest, seems crazy to me their own apparent lack of interest, anyway time will tell, their competitors will be more than happy to take up the opportunities instead of them that's for sure

Also, as you say, it's pretty super cool if that one off grading series of 250 NGC coins became the only cryptos that they do grade for the foreseeable future, or if ever, I doubt that it was planned that way, but it certainly makes those slabs a bit special if so, and no harm that all the buyers are now quids in over the last four months since they won, as are the buyers of the few flipped coins at about three months as well, so very good all round I'd say

I also agree that these slabs by NCG will be very well known and sought after if this is in fact their last time doing so for physical bitcoin collectibles,  this makes me think about what we talked about having PCGS slab a coin that is already in a slab, these would look great inside an oversize PCGS slab in my opinion. please keep us posted on any new things that come up with this if you can Otoh.  also i dont know a ton about Heritage, im guessing they will rep. coins in their auction if they are graded by another grader like PCGS ?  is this correct. ?  thank you all =). RS

Sorry, I don't follow what you asked re Heritage repping coins graded by PCGS and others Etc. Heritage offer coins which have been graded by all the main firms of course np, and not just NGC, they happened to choose to use them for my coins on that occasion, maybe because they offered them a better deal than PCGS or something, I don't know the details for why though myself.

Big surprise, NGC have just notified me of a huge U turn, so it looks like they are happy to accept Casascius coins, at least, for grading after all now, and would also take notes like Polymerbit on a test trial type basis with no fee if they decided that they couldn't grade submitted ones.

Hello Otoh, (real name swapped)
 
I wanted to follow up with you about the submission of physical cryptocurrency notes. We have not graded these cryptocurrency paper notes yet, and the notes would need to be submitted and reviewed in hand by the grading team to confirm if they are eligible for grading. Should they be determined ineligible for grading as an Ineligible Type, the grading fee would not apply.
 
I also have good news about the physical coin cryptocurrency. While we did not originally accept the coins for collector submissions, I did receive news from the grading team that this has recently changed and we can grade these coins.
 
If you are interested in submitting coins for grading, you can become a paid member of our Collector's Society through Join NGC Today | NGC (ngccoin.com) (https://www.ngccoin.com/join/). You can find more information on how to start  submitting coins online at How to Submit (https://www.ngccoin.com/submit/how-to-submit/).
 
You’ll need to have a general idea of the value of each coin to help select which grading tier. Grading tiers and fees can be found at  Services and Fees | Coin Submissions | NGC (ngccoin.com) (https://www.ngccoin.com/submit/services-fees/ngc/). These coins can be submitted as US Coins with a tier chosen based on their fair market value.
 
The value we ask you for is an insurance value, a number you would feel comfortable with in terms of a replacement value if your coin was lost or damaged while with us. We encourage you to be conservative as we do not reimburse you if you overvalue your coin. If your coin was grossly undervalued, we reserve the right to bump it to the appropriate tier.  
 
If you do not wish to sign up for membership, you can find a listing of authorized NGC dealers that can submit the coins on your behalf here: NGC Coin Dealer Locator (https://www.ngccoin.com/services/dealer-listing.aspx)
 
If you have any other questions, please let us know. Thank you!
 
Nicki O.
Customer Service
Certified Collectibles Group
p. (855) Grade10 | (855) 472-3310
collectiblesgroup.com (http://collectiblesgroup.com/)

If it helps the credibility for NGC to help onboard grading by PMG, PCGS has already graded at least 100+ Polymerbit notes

Many thanks MJ, I'll mention that when I submit some to them soon, I did link them to a nice PCGS graded Polymerbit note which I'd won recently at Stack's Bowyer when I first approached them re PMG grading for these, so I'm sure that they're aware.

Hey Otoh have you already sent/dropped off the trial polymerbit notes to NGC? Let us know if you get any update, very interested to see if they will grade Polymerbit at PMG, would be an insane win for crypto bank notes!