Bitcoin Forum

As a Bitcoin enthusiast, I want to say briefly that you shouldn't sacrifice simplicity for technicality. You are more likely to lose your bitcoins because of too much technicality than to scammers or hackers. An example of keeping things simple is that instead of storing your Bitcoin in a multi signature wallet that you do not understand how it works or have no experience in setting up, store your Bitcoin in a soft like Electrum wallet where the process of setting up is pretty straight forward. Another example is using simpler and recommended ways to protect your seed phrase instead of some ways that has too much complexities and technicality to it any mistake can result in its loss forever.

In summary, it is more practical to stick with user-friendly options that you understand well than advanced options. Simplicity and a strong foundation of knowledge are your best allies in safeguarding your bitcoin.

So high amount of money can be stored on online wallet? Wrong. If you can not go for multisig or wallet on an airgapped device, you can buy a hardware wallet.

It is worth knowing that wallet like Electrum can be used for multisig setup.

To learn about bitcoin wallet is not what is hard. I prefer multisig than single signature wallet on online devices. It is safer.

I would say it depends. If you have 0.001 bitcoin, then it's not worth a lot of technicalities, nor a multi-signature. On the other hand, if you have 100 bitcoin and you don't care about the technical aspects and you don't have systems like multisignature to protect your wealth, you are simply a fool with money.

Storing your Bitcoin in multi signature wallet is actually not too complicated. I think if you don't have the ability to assimilate simple things like this then I fear in general for the person's safety in crypto-currency. But out of preference and not complexity I use electrum because it has been what I started with and it's work fine for me.

I believe it's all about individual preferences, how I would choose to save my seed phrase may be different from how you would choose to save your and so is the same with how I choose to save my Bitcoin. But this factors should not be overlooked and that's it must be safe, easy for you to access and private to other people.

Actually this problem is being solved by hardware wallet companies. Everything safety that supposed to be complex becomes user friendly with the existence of this wallets. You don’t have to worry anymore whenever you connecting your wallet online since hardware wallet doesn’t share seed phrase.

I believe simplicity is really the main goal to attain mass adoption. The current technology development is already moving that way so in a sense your simplicity idea is not that bad.

From my experience it is better to use a wallet with a complicated system, and prioritizes security rather than a simple one. I would rather lose my funds in my wallet any time I find my pass key hidden than have it stolen due to scamming. Even in the trust wallet class, you can be missed, until now I still use hardware wallets from Trezor and Ledger.

In my opinion, security is more important, no matter how complicated we access it, the most important thing is that the investment we protect is safe from threats.

Ofcourse, simplicity is important. Even the technical ones could be made really simple for average people to understand. Bitcoin is a complicated tech  Satoshi tried as much as he could to simplify using things most people are familiar with, like the word "mining". That's how you know developers who really care and know what they are talking about... Others are deliberately making things complicated for certain people/competitors to understand, or they just want to "sound" technical, or it's really too complicated for them to simplify.

Besides, Open-source and Community-run Projects aren't supposed to be complicated so that everyone is carried along and help secure them from attacks from minority who understands how things work
 

This advice can be both good or bad depending on how people will interpret it. The most simple solution is to store coins where you bought them - on exchange, and we all know how bad it is. A little bit more complex option is a hot software wallet, and we also know how risky it can be. A simple cold storage or hardware wallet setup is providing enough security for nearly all users. There's indeed a danger in overcomplicating, especially by making custom encryption or encoding algorithms, using layers of encryption, splitting the seed and so on. All of it will increase the chance of losing the key while the security benefits are an overkill.

There's a reason why I don't even recommend the likes of multisig and Bitcoin Core to the typical layman. I always recommend Ledger/Trezor + Electrum, and a written down recovery phrase. That's the best balance between simplicity and security in my opinion.

Entering the world of Bitcoin requires some technical knowledge mainly, because Bitcoin is a new technology and needs some understanding before dealing with it in the correct way, so it is better to acquire more knowledge about Bitcoin.

But in principle, it can be said that what you are saying is correct. People who do not have sufficient knowledge of wallets that are considered somewhat complex, a multi-signature wallet or the like, are better off using simple wallets, but of course on the condition that they stay away from web wallets or central wallets. As their knowledge improves, they can move to safer wallets.

There is a distinction between I don't know how to utilize multi signature wallets and they are difficult to use.
You should know that Bitcoin technology has a lot of technicalities, which is why it is called digital currency; therefore, if you have more than 10BTC to keep, I believe you will look for a means to learn how to save your Bitcoin offline in order to be completely secure.

Looking for simple ways to keep your Bitcoin safe is a good thing, but we are constantly learning, and scammers are also learning, so we should keep looking for ways to increase our wallet security, and I believe Multisig is a fantastic alternative.

Simplicity is no doubt better than technicality, but depending on what factors you call a method, thing, or strategy, a simple one and a technical one Because, in your sight, or according to your knowledge, you found "X" things simple, while the other person with lower knowledge will find the same "X" thing technical. The level of simplicity and technicality depends on the knowledge one has.

If you don't know about multi-signature wallets, then learn about them, up your level a bit, and set that standard as a simpler one for you. Then proceed to more technicalities and make them simple for you. If you do not leave your comfort zone, either in the context of wallets, blockchain, or any crypto-related technology, you will not find new ways and will be stuck at levels that, in your sight, will be simpler for you, while moving up will look like a burden to you. So change that.

In simpler words, we should improve ourselves with modernization and how hackers and scammers are finding new ways to scam us. In the same way, we should improve ourselves and keep our education up-to-date, and that's the only way to avoid complexity. Then start with less, or first just test the options, then proceed with real funds.

The balance of complexity and simplicity can be understood better if we know what is the users' goal. Their threat modelling is different, surely, we should not advise a user who wants to store a gigantic amount of bitcoins on a hot wallet, instead, we suggest to them the cold wallet options. It also applies to multi-signature wallets, if there is a requirement, it is applicable even if we sacrifice simplicity slightly.

Generally, I understand and am aware, that even the basic sense of how we operate a wallet is still far from convenient. So the best way to advise someone is to adjust their needs and threat exposure, how likely and how bad the consequences are if they did not secure it properly or what if their funds got lost. A complex way may be unbearable, but if that's the way to go, educating how to operate it would be the surest decision.

The method of approach be it buying,  selling and storage depends entirely on the individual preference and the level of information and mastery he has acquired. For instance, the multisignature you quoted was created for a purpose, it might seem complex to come people but it is easy for some. Every innovation was created to improve or offer preferable alternatives to what is in existence. If you are not well oriented with how to use a particular thing, the best you can do is to seek for knowledge.

Every one love simplicity but not at the expense of security and comfort.

Learn then practice and to avoid loss by practical mistakes by lack of knowledge and experience, make your first practice to test your knowledge with Bitcoin testnet. If you make mistakes with Bitcoin testnet, you don't lose any money.

Create your wallet, backup and use your backup to recover your wallet.

If you want to use that (like a multisig) wallet to store your coins, send a small amount to it and practice to sign a transaction from co-signers. If it works, you can send more bitcoin to it as you already know how to broadcast a transaction from a multisig wallet.

Don't do complicated backup like splitting your seed to some parts. Because if you lose one part, you can not brute force it to have your full wallet seed. That causes you a loss of your bitcoin because you can not recover your wallet.

How to backup a seed phrase? (https://blog.lopp.net/how-to-back-up-a-seed-phrase/)
Bitcoin Q&A: Why is Seed Splitting a Bad Idea? (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5nSibpfHYE&t=1s)

It depends on the number of Bitcoin you have and the purpose. If you have 0.5 bitcoin and above, you can get yourself a hardware to save you the stress and technicalities in setting up a multisig wallet. I think the multisig wallet comes very handy especially in holding organizational funds or family inheritance. I don't really see the need for an individual to have a multisig wallet and have the seed phrase and private keys all to himself. A hardware wallet, an electrum cold storage wallet or electrum standard wallet is fine with me.

It is important to adopt a process that you understand rather than using a complicated technique that you have little or no knowledge about because you want to secure your coin. But we should also note that the more complicated the higher the security. A house that has two or more gates or some security device will be more difficult to access than a house that has just a single lock. So if you have a high amount of Bitcoin, it will be better to spend time and learn about the best means of securing your investment regardless of how complicated it might be. But newbies should keep it simple until they comprehend how wallets work.

You are right dear, I have seen some cases, in which the person taking so many precautions like wanting to save the seed phrase totally off the grid means not wanting to save on a storage that is online accessible. And in that process, he wrote down the seed phrases on paper and then lost them. And in other cases, those who have kept it saved on online place or on a mobile or laptop, might not lose those seed phrases. And in another case, one might save the seed phrase at different locations.

But you are not totally right, because, if you think the multi-signature security level is some technical shit then you are wrong, because setting multi-sign wallets is too easy and you mentioned Electrum and we can easily set a multi-sign wallet on that too. So, why we should not test it out and learn about it?

Instead of giving up, by saying, this shit is so technical and I want simplicity so I will not adopt the new technology, these people are always at a loss in all fields of life. If we do not learn new things and remain aware of all the new scams and hacks then we can easily be hacked. So technicality does matter but simplicity also.

It's okay to test new things that are also being done by others. But don't include yet your holdings on it upon testing just as the example that you've given.
Everyone started with zero knowledge and that's why we're all testers from the start. I wouldn't discourage someone in trying new things if that's what they like.
But on some point, you're also right that if you don't like complicated things then better stay to the existing ones by just doing what's the typical thing to do in keeping your bitcoin.

We have a site that's named YouTube where you can learn about multi-sig wallet easily. Just search the term "How to setup multi-sig wallet" and you'll see 100's of video tutorials that teach you how to set-up a multi-sig wallet and trust me learning from those tutorials isn't hard at all. In fact Electrum also offer multi-sig wallets and for that you'll have to search "How to set up multi-sig wallet in electrum" on YouTube and once again you'll see some good videos that will help you to set your own multi-sig wallet in Electrum.

You wouldn't really be that so dumb on diving in without having that sufficient knowledge on things on which it is really that impossible for someone who do make things without even thinking on what it is,specially if we do talk about storing our bitcoin then it would really be just that normal on human instinct or behavior that we do need to research up first before making further step. There might be some those dumb people who do carelessly making out some actions without thinking up first but majority of us would really be that mindful about the actions that we are making since we are basically be dealing up with the money that we are really that tending to store for long term. Technicalities about storage about your Bitcoin isnt really that too much to comprehend even if you arent that tech savy or does have that high knowledge about digital things but having making use of your own common sense should really be that enough for you to determine on which thing is really that viable for it to be done and what things should really be that be avoided.

Its impossible that you cant really be able to distinguish which thing that best for you but of course there would be people who would really be making actions which arent even that
worth or right on doing so and this would really be resulting on losing up their precious coins.

It doesn’t matter if you have small amounts of bitcoin or a larger amount of bitcoin; that will determine whether you should use a multi-signature to safeguard your coins. No matter the amount of your coins, they need protection and security. Someone with 0.00001 bitcoin today can have 100bitcoin tomorrow. Do you mean that is the time when he or she will start safeguarding his or her wallet? No, because no matter how many coins you have, you need to protect them because they are worth money.


What I understand here is that you have just been lazy, because if your account is not safeguarded, hackers will have access to it without lots of stress. When you think you are following simplicity, you are just being too lazy to learn.
That is why educating people to purchase or invest in bitcoin is not enough; it is also important to encourage them to engage in classes and research that will help them understand bitcoin and its technical aspects. You can purchase bitcoin, but it is of no use to you if you don’t know how to safeguard it because you might lose it due to your ignorance and think that bitcoin is just a scam. So let's protect our bitcoin and learn more about the technical aspects of bitcoin. It will help you a lot.

I am not getting what you want to express, actually. If you are afraid to store your cryptocurrency in multisign wallets, then we can simply use hardware wallets. It's actually called simplicity but secured. Electrum isn't an advisable wallet for storing large amounts there. We have seen how fake upgrades drive lost wallet access. So it won't be a secure way to store crypto. Simplicity always won't bring the best for you. Hardware or a cold wallet is the best way to avoid complex technicalities. Just be more realistic and learn the proper things related to storing your bitcoin. Because an unsafe store won't be an ideal simplicity procedure.

using a multisig wallet is something that increases the level of security of wallet and funds but it can turn out to be a disaster for an individual, a newbie who for sake of wanting to level up his wallet security chose to make use of multisig wallet Just to later encounter the technicalities involved and making a mistake that could cost him his funds eventually. If I have so much money to protect that much I'll simple make use of a hardware wallet if am not comfortable with using a single signature wallet.

One must have a basic knowledge of the functionality of a wallet.  I do not think that multi-sig is that complex since there are already lots of tutorials on how it can be done online.  Besides there are other available tools that can simplify storing Bitcoin like hardware wallets, storing private keys in a fire, water, and rust-proof box.  I don't think this kind of security is too complex for non-technical people. 

There are always choices in how to store one’s Bitcoin and I would even suggest people choosing more than one method. For many users it is a tightrope of how to store your coins though. They want simplicity without someone being able to get their private key from a sticky note on their monitor, but also don’t want to mess something up and lose all their coins.

There is so much wisdom in this post and its simple presentation sure buttresses the point you, OP has made.

I would like to use a good example of the difference between Binance and Bitget. While the Binance features are more easier to understand and navigate for beginners and intermidiate users, Bitget offers a rather complex navigational features with the inclusion of AI bots to assist professional or big long time merchant traders.

Same goes for wallets, it is good to use a simple wallet that wouldn't require much looking after to secure it, because the phrase 'not your keys, not your coins,' means  if a user loses or forgets their seed phrase, the coins will remain lost without any claim or access to it.

Inventing your own method of security isn't recommended, such as obscuring your seed phrase backup or importing the same wallet into different devices, things like these would only mean you'll either lock yourself out of your funds or lose it another way. But it is great to learn how to use recommended methods of protecting your funds, even if they may be a little bit complicated to you, methods such as setting up an airgapped wallet, extending your seed phrase with a passphrase, running your own node or Electrum server, etc, you must know what you are doing before implementing these solutions, but it is recommended you learn how to implement them for better security and privacy.

If you don't have enough knowledge on that, you should take a pause. We must exercise caution because money is involved. Others believe that multisig is more secure than a single signature wallet since it requires more than one signature to confirm a transaction. As I previously stated, it is only applicable to people who have sufficient knowledge of it. Personally, I prefer a one signature wallet because it is far more efficient. The only thing more important to me as a secure wallet is an open-source, non-custodial wallet like electrum.

We are talking about security here, meaning we are looking for complex systems so that hackers will be having a hard time cracking our security.  There is nothing weight more than having a complex system that makes hackers doubt their hacking skills but of course, but of course, the option to choose is from the users themselves.  I prefer this kind of complex system when implementing security.  I bet those who are in the right mind have recorded the step-by-step and all important things in applying this complicated system. Only lazy and overconfident will fail to record important details when setting up a complicated security.

If one has huge funds in the wallet address, I bet he will even hire experts to teach him how to securely store his funds.  ;D

It will be another story if we only intend the address to be our hot wallet for spending and transactions.  Still security shouldn't be overlook in this scenario.

Sacrificing simplicity for technicality will it look bad?
It even depends on how a Bitcoin enthusiast learns the complex and technical stuff.

Bitcoin enthusiasts should certainly know what steps to take, learning the technicalities to support the ever-evolving technology and innovation.

Don't let simplicity be the reason for not being able to learn technical things.
I also like simplicity because it's not too complicated.
But when you are able to level up and learn the technical ones, you will have more knowledge.

And the example you gave about storing Bitcoin in software like Electrum is not easy at all for beginners who don't know anything.
It requires precision and technical knowledge as well.

Storing Bitcoin on a multi-signature device is just an extension of storing on software like Electrum.

Stick to the bare minimum, which is to use a good wallet, in an airgapped device or burn an operating system to flash and create the seed, extract the public key and track your coins from that key.
There are not many complications in this plan and a person with limited knowledge should have the ability to perform such numbers.
A multi-signature wallet is necessary for situations such as a war, a dam collapse, or a hurricane. Then you will think of alternative plans or multiple options if the specific disaster occurs, and creating such a wallet requires only two or three hours of your time to learn and 15 minutes to implement.

You missed the most important aspect of this topics, Security. I do agree that I tend to choose wallet which more simple, but I wouldn't sacrifice the Security.


There is a solution if you don't want to learn the complex technicality, and that is Hardware Wallet. It's very straight forward, you invest your money to protect your fund with better security. If you don't want to invest your money at least you should invest your time to learn more about the security so you can minimize the possibility of your fund get stolen.

Don't get me wrong, I also simple Electrum wallet, and sometimes even Exchange wallet, but only on the case that I need the fund to be quickly transferred or exchanged. But for the fund that you hodl, hadrware wallet is the way.

I agree that simplicity is important, but perhaps to a certain point. The op mentions Electrum as a simple wallet, and while I agree with that, I believe that there are people who find Electrum more difficult than, say, popular exchanges. And exchanges, of course, use that point, an example of which is the famous phrase by the CEO of Binance that 99% of people who hold cryptos on their on will lose the money. I don't agree with that, I think people are capable of responsible self-custody and don't need exchanges to store their coins (they may need exchanges for trading or to exchange coins occasionally, but that's a different matter).

If you want to have the best, you will have to learn the best. There is no other way around it. Doing anything that you don't understand is a foolish decision but if you don't do anything, you won't learn anything. So in order to safeguard our privacy, our assets and our security we need to learn it no matter what. I don't think it is too much complicated. Yeah, it is true you won't understand it at a single glance, but that's the thing with everything. You never know until you try it. And the more you try, the better you become.

The thing you adore the most, won't you keep it safe? You can keep your Bitcoin in a software wallet for the time being until you learn the complex thing. And when you learn it, it is not as complex as you think. For instance when we were in first grade things were difficult. As we move to the second grade what we learned in the first grade becomes easier. Everything happens the same way. When you learn it, it becomes easier.

If you have the time to invest and learn then don't be lazy. You could have saved all of your assets if you had only to spare some of your time to learn the complex thing. Don't chicken out on learning. Knowledge is everything.

Simplicity especially when you are not used to technicalities will save you from a lot of stress and heartache that you may cause for yourself from trying something you are not used to. Simple safety steps can also be very effective if practiced correctly. You can choose technicalities if you are good with technical things and simply have an understanding for them, technicalities will be easy for you. I have heard simple cases of people who have tried to make their access password to their simple devices very complex and ended up forgetting it, do not things that you are not used to especially now that money is involved.

Electrum has the option to create a multisig wallet but I get the point you're trying to make. A single signature wallet is sufficient for most people. A standard Electrum wallet is a practical choice for beginners. Multisig and Shamir backups require a higher degree of responsibility but if someone has the technical understanding they should not be discouraged from considering options that may provide better security.

That's an example of people being too paranoid about security being too simple.
Even though if something simple is well maintained and without any mistakes from the user it will also remain safe.

But some people who already understand the security used, make it a little complicated and technical it is their own responsibility.

Creating a new layer of security that is difficult for anyone to penetrate.
It involves a lot of effort to keep it safe and don't be too stupid to do technical things but don't fully understand what you're doing.

You're absolutely right! Keeping things simple is important, but with all the hacks and scams happening lately, it's crucial to be cautious. That's why many people opt for multi-signature setups or storing their coins on exchanges like Binance. However, in my opinion, using a Ledger is a wise choice. It's one of the safest and easiest ways to secure your coins, especially if multi-signature is too technical for some. Stay safe and secured

do remember that it is never a smart idea storing your coins in exchanges. you have no control with your funds here. just go for electrum if you want a simple one. and once you learn more things, that's when you can move to other solid and secure options like ledger.
electrum for me is more than enough if you have no big funds to store with. just make sure you are very careful in every transaction that you make and not fall from the bait of these scammers.

I totally agree. Too many Bitcoin users mistake complexity for intelligence in the world of Bitcoin and the crypto-economy as a whole, which changes very quickly. We're not talking about some obscure mathematical theory. These are real assets, and mistakes can cost dearly. Technicalities just for the sake of them can lead to terrible mistakes. You are 100% correct when you say that most people dont need or benefit from the difficulty of a multi-signature wallet. Why do that when there are easier choices like Electrum?

However, lets not stop there. Everything in crypto is based on this one concept. Deeply involving yourself in complex setups might not only add more layers of safety, but also more levels of danger. User-friendly doesnt mean amateur; it means practical. Yes, knowledge is power. But how can simple application of knowledge keep it safe? To do that is to really have power in crypto. Make sure your assets are safe and your methods are easy to understand.

Multisig (Multi signature) wallet is a new type of Bitcoin wallet to secure your wallet and your bitcoin better. It's an advance development from Single Signature wallet for Bitcoin.

But you misunderstood that Bitcoin MultiSig wallets can be set up by many Bitcoin wallet softwares. Electrum is one of Bitcoin wallet softwares can be used to set up a multisig wallet.

Bitcoin multisig wallet is not Electrum wallet and your post is like with Electrum wallet software, you can not set up a multisig wallet. In fact, you can do it with Electrum.

Multisig wallet (https://electrum.readthedocs.io/en/latest/multisig.html) (Electrum documentation).
Creating a multisig wallet with Electrum (https://bitcoinelectrum.com/creating-a-multisig-wallet/).

pretty sure you wouldn't go for any of the more advanced options and disciplines even if you want to if you're a confirmed newbie in the crypto space. Most of the newbies I know will always stick to whatever's the most accessible and easy to get around, which is why electrum and hot wallets as well as exchange wallets are a staple among these newbies. Although there will be those ambitious enough to push for the more advanced side of the crypto industry and actually use air-gapped wallets or something along those lines and then wonder why their coins are inaccessible lol. It's been like that ever since.

You and I have even been beginners and what you said about beginners looking for the easiest way to use a wallet or store their assets is to use a wallet that is widely recommended for beginners, easy to access.

Even when I just created an account on this forum and joined the bounty, I used CEX wallet to receive coin payments, yes and in the end, I couldn't retrieve the coins and that was a learning experience for me as a beginner.

The technical stuff is needed when you have a pretty good understanding of how to use a wallet, and differentiate between different wallets and how they function.
It just takes some adaptation and initial knowledge.

Those who are ambitious enough to push to the more advanced side are good ambitions, because they will find new knowledge from what they want to learn.