Bitcoin Forum

Why?

This:

And this:


Especially, I do not expect people can be complaining about bitcoin and cryptocurrencies in general that they are causing global warming.

Mixers are seen to be used for illegal activities but the money in banks are not seeing to be used for money laundering and terrorism financing. Among the most fiats used for illegal activities, only little do the government and regulators know about. If there is no bitcoin or other coins and tokens, there will be illegal activities both online and offline and their scam fiat will be used for it.

It is their narrative to attack Bitcoin and cryptocurrencies. You can not change that because they work under government laws and regulations and they easily follow request from governments and central banks.

https://bitcoincleanup.com/
https://endthefud.org/energy
Debunking the "Bitcoin is an environmental disaster" argument (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5325350.0)

Above are resources for people in Bitcointalk to debunk those attacks. Those resources are not for governments and central banks, they don't need such.

Fiat currencies are used for money laundering more than Bitcoin and cryptocurrencies. Again it is another narrative attack from Bitcoin & cryptocurrencies including crypto mixers.

More information is available in Crypto Crime Report 2023 (https://go.chainalysis.com/2023-crypto-crime-report.html). You can download it for reading.

I am not sure about that. Do you have any data or report to support this saying?

Simply put, banks and fiat are part of the system and bitcoin was invented against the system. Now they are trying to control it as much as possible with more laws, more KYC, demonising mixers and trying to impose blacklists, and if they succeed bitcoin will become part of the system. It's like the ETF spots that everyone is waiting for the price to go up: what they are going to do is make bitcoin even more part of the system.

The topic title, do you mean not all educated are educated, or your write-up, not all educated are not educated? I read the below meaning to the first one, which I think is perfect for the title, "Not everyone who is educated throughly understands things are they are meant to be?"
 
In the aspect of the government always blaming bitcoin and other currencies for crime and money laundering is just all that they could do. We all know that even before bitcoin, there had been illegal dealing in any form of activity, and the government can't deny that. And with the said money laundering, we can also see that the major money launderers are those who are in charge of shell accounts, which they are allowed to send large amounts of money across to any part of the world without being questioned.
 
How much is being spent on illegal purchases of arms and other sorts of illegal activities like terrorism drugs? When you talk about this amount, we can see that it's nearly impossible for crypto or bitcoin alone to be used to execute such deals. There is no doubt that many criminal organisations are using bitcoin for their illegal activities, but the numbers are few compared to what's happening in the financial and banking systems, which they all know about, and yet they need a reason to attack bitcoin by all means.

Illegal activities has been existing since, even before I was born, so I don't see any reason why the government are giving excuses for bitcoin users not to use the mixing service. I think that this is another way that they think they can use to deprive bitcoiners from their private life.

The government just hate the people can use bitcoin for whatever they want to buy without them being able to trace the transactions, which I think that this is the main reason that they are against any form of privacy that you can get from bitcoin and they are not happy that bitcoin gives financial freedom to its users. This is the reason why bitcoin should be used the way it was designed, by using a decentralized exchange and a noncustodial wallet. I believe this is the reason why Bitcoin ETF will be approved so that they can know more about the bitcoin owners that bought from ETF

This is another way LE are targeting BTC and its privacy tools and trying to deceive people into not using them, privacy tools like CoinJoin implementations and mixers are very important for a BTC user, and i am glad that despite the fact that Swan BTC don't want their customers' to interact with their service using mixed funds, at least they are open about everything and they are not trying to paint mixing as being bad:
LE are not fighting money laundering or illicit funds with all of these regulations, because BTC is not the main tool used by fraudsters for money laundering, LE are doing this because they want to have 'eyes' on your money, they want to be able to link addresses and tell which belongs to who, they want to attack BTC fungibility by calling some coins 'tainted', this is their primary goal and not to fight money laundering.

These companies will continue to bend the knee to regulatory pressures, otherwise they won’t be permitted to do business in said countries. Don’t be surprised at anything they comply with after being told so by their masters.

This is so harsh.

However,  we all should make a few hops (or at least one) after interacting with a mixer, before sending to a centralized exchange. This should keep you out of this kind of trouble

One more reason never to leave any money in any exchange.

services flagging deposits due to taint of mixing.. is not due to LE watching that transaction taint. its due to the service watching.
those services then have to do internal investigations to see if it reaches a threshold of suspicion to then report it to LE
not all transactions get seen by LE
LE does not watch everything. they just get the juicy reports of activities that reach a certain level of suspicion

its these services that dont want the headaches of watching, investigating and reporting. because if they make a mistake they can be fined..
receiving funds. which they do no due diligence on. and dont report any suspicious risk, makes the service liable/associated with proceeds of a crime..
so most prefer to just avoid payment methods which can result in more workload/fines for them

when we see mixer affiliates just shout "everyone should use mixers" that is not advice. thats advertising. and its advertising of things that cause more headaches and more negativity for users and services

what operators of "mixers" should do is rebrand. change their code, change the methodology and be smart of offering a service that does not advertise itself as something that is regulatorally listed as suspicious. end result for users is they get funds with different taint (sale goal) but advertised, described and functionally different to what regulations describe
then services wont flag it and wont report it and the world is a better place

I wonder what their definition of mixers is and how they will determine that you used a mixer. We are not talking about CoinJoin or services that leave a fingerprint, but rather third-party applications that manage thousands of Bitcoins and mix customer funds using algorithms. Suppose they recognized that the currencies were mixed, what is the difference? I can understand that a source of income is requested, but the source of currencies is an acknowledgment of the existence of clean and dirty currencies, and if this concept continues, it is the end of any currency.

This is one of the funniest thing I have ever read. I don't know if the more educated these scientist get, the more stupid they become.  The heavy industries in China, the open gas flaring in Nigeria and the various coal and nuclear powered turbines do not cause global warming bit Bitcoin mining farm? These guys are really making mockery of science just the way they did during covid19.  

I have always known it will come the point where governments will conjure all manner of theories and hypothesis to be fully in charge of Bitcoin and all that has to do with it. Mixers actually make this impossible, hence their outburst against mixers.
Before the advent of Bitcoin and tumblers, terrorism have always been financed through the conventional payment systems, NGOs, charity and religious organisations and others. Linking Bitcoin to terror financing is just a case of "giving a dog a bad name in other to kill it"

I have a very simple explanation for OP. You go to your neighbors house and rob all money from him, it's a crime. Now IRS goes to your neighbor's house and took all money from him complaining that he is a tax defaulter. For your neighbor, he lost all his money. But the situation changes on who has robbed him! So if anything is done by the government, it's never illegal because they setup the law.

So you will always have such issues with the banking system. Banks will try to freeze your account for any reason. banks very well understand that cryptocurrency is a system that can put their existence at risk. So Banks will fight back, they will do things not favorable for crypto users. And it is not limited to any country, rather it's an international issue.

I don't know the kind of education OP is referring to, but I guess it is conventional education from schools. Attending a school does not guarantee education because an educated man should have an open mind to reason and read about issues before making conclusions. So it is true that many people who go to school are not educated because they fail to use their minds.  People fail to know that most information they get from some news channels is designed by the government and other organisations to control their thinking. And many people are too lazy to research to validate if this information is true or fake.  

African leaders are arguably the most corrupt in the world in terms of stealing from the commonwealth and impoverishing the people. Most of these funds stolen from these nations by politicians are laundered to foreign banks. Recently some of the money stolen by these corrupt politicians was discovered and gradually repatriated to my country. None of these funds are in Bitcoin, in fact, most of them are in some of the leading currencies of the world. My country has not discovered any money laundering carried out using bitcoin. Attacking bitcoin because of illegal activities is the only excuse the government has and sadly some educated illiterates are digesting this misinformation.

There are many good people who use mixers for the sake of privacy, making laws such as these FinCEN regulations is like assuming that everybody who uses mixers is a criminal. The government have not prohibited the use of fiat because it is used for money laundering because it is within their control.         

It's something worth laughing over because on a daily these guys are finding new ways to appear comical to the public. First, they tried attacking Bitcoin by labeling it a scam currency and having no value just to dissuade users and since that did not get the effect they thought it would, they come up with this lame excuse of Bitcoin mining causing global warming? I expected better from them but what did I expect from people who would go to any length just to ensure they control everything.
 These financial institutions have overtime aided in misusing funds of the public but the government turns a blind eye because they are the masterminds behind it and will fight to ensure that nothing hinders them from that access and will  make sure they suppress anything (in this case, Bitcoin) that tries to make them look irrelevant and there's no better way to do that than to choke it's existence with rules and regulations.

  The government see bitcoin as a threat to the system because they can’t control it, the decentralization of bitcoin, will ease the so much burden the system as place on the people, are afraid of losing the control they have on individuals. Even the the World Bank themselves gave the excuse of:
Transparency … what a load of bull. The fact that every transaction and every wallet is viewable by anyone looking at the Bitcoin blockchain means “transparency” is a LOT better than using dollars.
Environmental impact … again, what a load of bull. Even now, more than 70% of Bitcoin mining is already using renewable sources of electricity. Not to be “green”, but because the cost of fossil fuel is getting so high. This is climbing, since China banned Bitcoin mining in their cheap, government sponsored, coal burning regions.
All excuses. Extremely easy to see the lie.
   The real reason they just don’t want to: If they accept BTC as a world currency, all those crappy Fiat stuff will soon lose value due to this alternative. Every country in the world would immediately need to also accept BTC as a normal trading currency. And thus every country in the world would see their own currencies compete against BTC. Which in turn means there’s no more barriers to stop their currencies going into free-fall hyperinflation. I.e. the real reason is FEAR. Period. All else is simply excuses to try and save face.

Well what do you expect them to do? I mean since you can't beat them and join, then they actually results to only one possible means which is to actually paint the image of Bitcoin as a viable and most used means of money laundering. They have totally forgotten all the money that is been syphoned from their bank account, I mean the banking system has been the perfect means of moving funds over the long years and they deem it fit to paint it black now that Bitcoin is being used for same purpose but they forget every good project must have some downside which is just the normal base of life .

These type of notions are always propagated because this is what the public wants to hear. For the common public bitcoin is like a hackers money, terrorists funds and hence gets all the adjectives that are synonymous with "BAD" - so when someone says that the mining causes pollution, they always create buzz on that.

Since they hate crypto so much, anything bad in crypto makes them feel wet between the thighs and always promote that too.

How I view this is that let them do so, my ideals are clear and I will accumulate bitcoin for its price rise in future. The less they get into bitcoin the better for me because then I will have so many people to dump on.

The only bad thing about this is that it slows down the progress and acceptance. But we will have to bear through that.

That's what they are known for. They don't like it when a system can function independently of their ideology and so will do everything possible within their power to ensure that they either bring it down or succeed in making it a part of their self-centered system. That's why they will rather support the concept of CBDC and banks that they can control and dictate affairs for and will do anything possible to ensure that Bitcoin is not generally acceptable by the majority of the society. The funny thing is that most of the leaders of the  countries that see so many bad thing associated with bitcoin mining and will never accept it in there country are the same people that will steal public funds and convert it to coins so that the financial crime enforcement agency won't be able to trace those money.

That is true. People don't acknowledge the fact that illegal activities like money lanudering is being carried out since a long time.
It has been happening before bitcoin and after bitcoin but people are only focusing on bitcoin and it's bad uses.
They aren't seeing the positive sides of bitcoin and illicit sides of fiat and this is mostly because of news and media.
They have portrayed bitcoin like this to the world and people are blindly believing these news anchors.

Everything is clear and I know everyone knows that the government is focusing more and more on opposing Bitcoin. Before the invention of Bitcoin there was fiat currency and illegal activities were also done at that time, criminal and funding to them are done in fiat currency but the government blamed Bitcoin for all this. There were may be some illegal activities done in the past and was very minor but the government do not make it a base that is fully involved in illegal activities. The biggest fear of the government is that people are going out of their control because due to bank and fiat currency, they bound people but thanks to Satoshi he made independence from this system and now the government is trying to make Bitcoin centralized or make it notorious so that people will leave it.

I am a bit confused here.

Is this the part where them (which ever group or persons within this category) is defined to not be educated?

That they dwell on theories that aren’t correct or wrong doesn’t make no one uneducated. It’s just another garbage that is fed to everyone who is concerned and dares to read whatever is out there on the internet or from which ever resource.

The idea to climate change comes from the high electricity values required for mining with them rigs. Mining has become so sophisticated and depending on your immediate environment, you might need conventional power supply sources of which (fossil) fuel remains a more prominent source, accounts for emissions and as a result, climate change.

That’s what the weather people would say but again, why being so focused on Bitcoin? I mean, it’s not done what the refineries are doing…

Bitcoin remains a target for most government and centralized systems out there because of what it stands to change but, it’s an idea that is accepted by some and rejected by others. Let it move at it’s pace.

When people who takes your potentials as threat to their favours they would always want to get you sabotaged.
Bitcoin was invented in just 2009 but before then there had been criminal indulgences such as fraudulents, money laundery, illegal traffic, and thefts etc which are carried on online and offline.
I don't understand if the government tends to channel the blames of the advanced criminality of today to cryptocurrencies.
 
May I share briefly about my country where a late and formal head of State (president) and also as commander--in-chief of the Armed Forces in my country who ruled the nation from 1993 to 1998.
Since then all his loots is yet to be totally uncovered but since then, there had been a continues loots recoveries of the looted funds which currently is an estimate of $4 billion in cash and $2 billion in asset and just of recent, France has been concerned and agreed to repatriate $150 million as part of the loots.
This is the same Abatcha whose wife said to the republic that nomatter how much is recovered from her husband's loot, they would never be as poor as the wife of a whole riches man in Africa in Africa.
Interested member may read @ https://www.nairaland.com/3447028/no-matter-how-much-recoverwe#50770452.

Bitcoin itself is tended to tender security funds where not even a community would be in charge about as a medium to limit looting with the historical laundries experiences.

I always the sets of government that disassociates itself from adoptation of Bitcoin and other related cryptocurrencies are biased because there is no just rooms created for their looking.
What a mad era and a crazy world we are today were politicians steals the public funds and they are celebrated while the common man steals bread to eat would be termed the criminal.

Bitcoin is basically built against the banking sectors to give people their financial freedom. Bitcoin is basically built against the banking sectors to give people their financial freedom. It protects people's personal data privacy and security the data which has to be provided every time when receiving services from the banking sector. Moreover, Bitcoin is a decentralized system that no one can control where banks can freeze your funds at any time according to their terms.
However, the reason for giving a light description about Bitcoin is that since Bitcoin was created against this banking system, it is natural that all these banks and the big whales behind it must conspire against Bitcoin to protect their business and interests. So I will not call them educated or uneducated people , I will call them selfish people.

Haha, Well that an Old debate about Bitcoin and the crypto industry possesses an anti-environment friendly narrative (at least some narrow-minded people think like that), TBH it is just a shit of wrong media reporting, if it is that true why don't they disclose the reality of environment-friendly electric cars reality, the Li-Ion battery used in these cars on the time of manufacturing realizes 10 times more environment polluting substance comparing to an old diesel engine car.

For Bitcoin's use and money laundering, this is also another shity excuse of the hypostatic regulators to control the flow of money, to keep everything under their control. The attribute is promoted by the way it is used is not a concern because people can even use kitchen knives for evil, so should they need to ban the Knife and shart object industry (Just a rough example).

This makes sense because fiat has been used as the basic source for money laundering for decades, but BTC is just 15 years old and is being accused of all the money laundering that occurred due to it. I think BTC is really doing some damage to these so-called centralised authorities who want to keep control of all the money, but they can't do that anymore due to BTC decentralization.

And generally speaking, BTC or any of the mixers that FinCen is accusing of being involved in money laundering is not being used that much because, according to the report they have proposed, I have read it and only a small portion of money is being laundered by them.

In my opinion, there is something else that they are trying to save, and that would be their control over our money because that is the only reason or feature that BTC has provided us, and we are doing their control some real damage.

There is no valid reason, actually, why a few crypto services don't want to accept funds from the mixer and gambling sites. I believe this is a stupid attempt at all because cryptocurrency is decentralised, especially Bitcoin. It doesn't matter where it actually came from when it's decentralised. Money laundering or criminal activity accusations are just a reason; actually, they don't like Bitcoin decentralization. It's really annoying to me when fuckers just point out cryptocrime and ignore all the fiat crimes. A large number of crimes have been happening through fiat currency.

Not something new, fiat had been used with these illicit activities in the first place, it is really just that it isnt really that getting emphasized just because there's something huge behind it or someone who do really cover up and now that Bitcoin did exist then having those anonymity and decentralized aspect or features then this is the best test subject that they could really be putting up those kind of  blame on which trying out to convince
the masses that it is something that shouldnt really be dealing with just because of those so-called attached issues that they've been throwing it out. What a shame and what a shit thing that had been done.
Only true Bitcoin enthusiast or supporters would really be able to find out for those words to be shit and having no sense. Government doesnt really want for people to make out on engagement on something
that cant be controlled or monitor out and this is why they would really be loving on spreading up those false information and trying out to blind the people on what truly it is
and rather they are focusing on destroying its image and focusing into it and now its been for long years that they do keep on doing that.

I laughed so hard at the ignorance and foolishness of these claims. I say it again the government and some people who either feel threatened by bitcoins or do not like bitcoins for some reasons will choose to believe anything and hold on to any reason just to make them have an alibi. What is even funny is that some of the people behind these claims say that they are educated, but yes! Not all educated are educated. You are educated when you are able to find out information and verify information on your own, some of these people have never tried to verify their claims by research to know if they are true, they are just holding on to them. They are not different from the uneducated.

These people appear to be educated but not enough educated, but it does not mean they are not educated to the level of others who have accepted bitcoin, it is simply being ignorant and they are aware of it. It is on a different scale and level of comprehension. Their beliefs and perspectives on bitcoin differ from those of us who are Bitcoin enthusiasts.  If they dislike and refuse to accept bitcoin, it will have no effect on its global adoption. We haven't seen any repercussions of their lack of declaration of support, purpose, or interest in bitcoin throughout the years. It is clear that they do not want it, and they will go to any length to make it discouraged for anyone who wish to utilise it while continuing to use their services.

We always get that narrative because of where Bitcoin has started to be known of its use and that's with the illegal transactions. But I guess that died eventually when Bitcoin entered to the mainstream.

This time, it's all about the mixers and etc. They think of the same idea of how it'd go during the early stage of where Bitcoin has been commonly used.

IMO, there's always the agenda with these issues that the exchanges and the governments that they're bringing up. While the exchanges just follows the rules of the government, they just have to implement what's being imposed on them.

It is no longer about stopping crime and money laundering, BTC is pseudonymous, so it is already difficult for LE to track people's coins if they don't use centralized services, now when people use privacy tools in addition, it becomes very difficult for blockchain analysis companies to get thier 'guesses' correctly. So they set out this strict regulations for centralized services who must provide them information about their customers if they request for it, now in order for these services to be able to do that, they must stop interacting with users who use privacy tools.

This is how they attack BTC's fungibility with bullshit about tainted coins, the fiat currencies we touch daily may have been used for one illicit tx or the other, but nobody is tracking it and calling it tainted.

The is a very insidious attack against bitcoin, without fungibility bitcoin could not be considered to be money anymore and instead it will become just another asset like a stock, so governments are attempting this knowing full well this long term strategy could allow them to discredit bitcoin as a form of money, and since exchanges and other centralized services care nothing about this market then they are receiving those conditions with their arms open, even if they will also harm themselves by doing so.

I agree with what you said: Bitcoin is the opposite of the system that banks and governments have. I also do not believe that the bank is not used for terrorism or money laundering. Because what if the supervising manager of the bank or the owner of the bank himself is doing money laundering and terrorism? I just asked this.

My question is whether this is possible and realistic if we look at the situation. Although we know that banks are very strict when it comes to the rules they have,

Lol, what haven’t we heard? They’ve called it a scam just to shut it up, they’ve said it’s used for money laundering and many other illegal activities. I one time saw a thread on this forum that spoke about how people see Bitcoin as negative because someone was kidnapped and the ransom was required in Bitcoin (probably so it can’t be traced? Idc). Bitcoin is only but a currency the difference is the respect of privacy, but they want to shoot it down with so many excuses.

The case of Swan might not be about educated people acting as if they're not educated at all. Or perhaps it is, considering that while these people like Cory and Yan are Bitcoin supporters, they're also providing centralized custodial services. But my point is that the line which connects Bitcoin services to the fiat world isn't completely severed yet. It will probably stay like this for the next decades. In which case, do they have an option?

Cory is now even considering a lawsuit against FinCEN. That sounds quixotic to me. You link with banks but then you don't want them to implement what's required by the government? It doesn't seem right. To me, it's either you abide or you disconnect from them.

I know right, Bitcoin is just a tool for convenience that can be used to have transactions without revealing your identity globally. Of course, almost everything nowadays can be used for illegal activities, we can even say that it could apply to banks like money laundering as well as some transactions, they just don't ban it due to they have the taxes, they have the power to control and manipulate, etc.  They have a lot of things to find in Bitcoin just to ban it cause for sure they don't benefit from them, I really remember the time in my country when they would like to put taxes on any transaction in the crypto industry since they seen people having a lot of money without the government being involved, so they announced that they put taxes but eventually they failed to cause its decentralized system.

Bitcoin is a currency, and a currency should not be restricted because it's used for criminal purposes. I completely agree with op that fiat currencies remain widely used for financing terrorism and for other crimes, and so is the banking system. With all its alleged traceability and regulations, banks are actively used for illegal activities.
The global warming and Bitcoin mining topic is a bit more tricky to me because mining does have a negative impact, but it's discussed disproportionately and a lot of research is simply lacking.
As for crypto mixers, it's unclear how much they are used for illegal purposes, but the whole idea makes them very useful specifically for money laundering, so perhaps restricting the usage of such services is justified.

The existence of bitcoin has always been a threat to the government and some other financial organizations. They have tried to eliminate it long time ago but all to no avail simply because its a decentralized system of exchange which is non profitable to the government, that made them to find means to eradicate it. If not for hate, how on Earth would someone make such a speech.that dey would terminate account transacting with crypto mixing and also talking about global warming. Truly sometime negative inpact can make and educated person becomes uneducated.

I hope they will fail to do that because if they succeed, then the whole Satoshi's ambition will become wasted and will not help anyone to have their own financial privacy anymore. Just because they cannot control the transactions and get some tax from it, they are making some way to trap everyone with their newly imposed laws to the centralized exchanges and also to punish the owners of those exchanges if they are not compiling to the rules. That's why, many have recommended getting back to the old ways where people use decentralized exchanges in order to get away from what the governments and the banks are planning.

Yes the used and request of KYC is on the rise as bitcoin came to and existence. When the authorities could not have access to the blockchain to control people they sort out to another means which the KYC. And really if bitcoin is adopted every country in the world fiat Currency will be collapsed like cowries. Cowries was the first coin that was used everywhere in the world but it over come by fiat Currencies. And since they could not catch any bitcoiner because of the decentralized nature of the invention, they are sorting out to disturb firms and organizations that using bitcoin to affect the bitcoiners that are using bitcoin.

Yes, it's true, in the fiat system there are more money laundering activities, but they scapegoat Bitcoin for illegal actions. But I have a prediction that the fiat money system will sooner or later collapse and a new financial system will be born, and I think that system will be blockchain. I'm not sure they will adopt bitcoin but they will use a blockchain system like bitcoin.

The government always demands KYC, that's why they banned mixers. Because when they can't track someone's wealth then they can't collect taxes

So the banks are not stupid they are looking out to protect their own interest's. I would not call them uneducated. I would call them stubborn mean and wealthy people that want to control us.

It is their will to criticise Bitcoins. For them Bitcoins are like illegal assets which are used by terrorists or bad people for bad purpose. But they are forgetting that, the asset is not illegal, but the mindset of these people are. If terrorist and bad people want to do bad things, then they can use any source of medium for it. Regarding global warming, it’s just baseless to tell that Bitcoin minings are causing this. They need to grow up.

Yes there are many companies that use KYC for the security of bitcoins. Bitcoin is decentralized there is no government control the government does not validate bitcoin as it cannot be used as it wishes. Everyone invests in Bitcoin independently because fiat money is not tied to any physical commodity so it risks losing value especially during hyperinflation. If the people of a particular nation lose faith in the currency the money will become useless. Fiat money is a currency issued by a government it has no value of its own but derives its value from government regulation it is easy to commit crimes by fiat currency.

Being educated means understanding and making use of the information we encounter daily, applying what we learn to our own lives. I am not surprised that people jump into conclusions that has no validation.

Learning is everywhere. Everything we do, observe, and hear teaches us something, one way or another. So it's left for us to say what will think is right.

When we use a banking service, we have to comply with their rules, and I understand why they don't want our account to be associated with mixers because it will be hard for them to trace transactions. To ease their job, they require that all transactions we go through have a clear identity, either a person or a business.

This is quite simple to understand: if we use mixers, let's not use banks, as these two are in conflict. Banks promote transparency, and they advertise that they keep our privacy within their systems and with regulators. So, if we don't trust them on that, we can always go fully crypto with the help of mixers to achieve anonymity, although it's not guaranteed.

bitcoin is like a competitor to banking, they don't want the ecosystem to develop further than that, so in various ways they use it to attack bitcoin which has been decentralized and intervention-free. but it is unfortunate that the more they suppress bitcoin, the bigger bitcoin will be in the future.

how many years have they been playing this kind of narrative? and what are the results? nothing, even bitcoin is still growing and is predicted to make a new ath. so it's pointless to play out a narrative like this because people are getting smarter and they no longer want to be dictated to in their freedom to use bitcoin.

Bitcoin has only been around for 14 years, while crime, money laundering and smuggling have existed for hundreds of years. The government just wants to get rid of bitcoin, but it's so perfect that they have no other reason to disparage it, other than to associate it with anything they can think of.

The old monetary system will soon be replaced by a new monetary system, that is almost certain. But whether they adopt blockchain or any other technology, they will still be centralized and the government will still be in control . So whether the monetary system collapses or not, centralization still exists.

Let the fover keep pretending to us that fiat is not an illegal means of money laundering when they were all there causing the loots around, but with bitcoin p2p network, they cannot soy to know about anyone's financial stand, so they will assume that mixers that provides for more anonymity is their enemy as well because they cannot know the financial worth of every users, that is why they are dealing heavily with some of these mixers neglecting the banks which are worst.

Yes, the only thing that can be used to slander Bitcoin is to accuse Bitcoin of being often used as a money laundering tool because of Bitcoin's anonymous nature.

In a country's finances, decentralization is dangerous because the government cannot control the finances circulating in society. The government needs to exercise financial control to maintain financial stability, prices of goods and the circulation of money in society. Too much money will make the price of goods rise, too little money will reduce purchasing power. Usually the country will issue policies by increasing interest rates or lowering interest rates to regulate money circulation.

A country's financial and economic system is very complicated, I also want the concept of decentralization but on the one hand it can be dangerous because there is no financial control, choosing the wrong policy can have fatal consequences.

Bitcoin often faces criticism from people who hold positions where they have to scrutinize it. They try to find flaws with Bitcoin in order to discredit it in public opinion, or even within their own country. They are afraid of Bitcoin precisely because it is difficult to trace, unlike money in banks.

I believe that both of you have valid points. This is why countries are trying to shed light on Bitcoin in order to reduce illegal transactions and have the ability to track such activities in fiat. It will be difficult for them to successfully illuminate or ban Bitcoin. Good luck to them!

You are right, companies have to comply with the government; otherwise, they will be forced to move out, just like the USA did with Binance, while Coinbase and Binance were sued by the SEC for the same case of illegal trading of securities, which was not considered a security by the SEC, so they sued both. I covered the reasons why this issue arose, but the thing is, they allowed Coinbase to continue providing their services while forcing Binance to move out.

The reason was the the same, Binance was not following the instructions of the masters, or maybe they might not be accepting them as masters, and they really did well. Although the the banking sector has been used for ML for a long time, they are just after BTC or mixers because they know their control over people's money is less than before, so they are going against it. You should check out the Patriot Act by FinCen, it will give you some idea of of what FinCen has on their minds.

And if I may ask, so how do these people intend to make this successful? How do they intend to know accounts that have been engage in Bitcoin mixing? Or do they intend to track the source of every Bitcoin been deposited on the exchange to know if it has been mixed or not, and then terminate those accounts, or how exactly. Because this actually prove to be of the reason why keeping funds on centralized exchange one of the worst decision anyone can ever make, as your right to total control and ownership of that coin has already been taken away from you from the very first day you deposited your coin on a third party exchange. Hence, non-custodian wallet remains the best.

Because fiat is traceable enough with its serial numbers, so upon investigation it can be easily track if it was used in money laundering, so they are using bitcoin to avoid getting caught because it is decentralized and there are many tools like mixers to delete its footprint across the blockchain though it is not permanently deleted, but vague tracks are enough to evade naked eyes.

I mean it is understandable for the government to initiate centralization because it would be chaos if they would not. Imposing taxes is not even bad at all, it comes bad when they spend it to useless stuff.

Kyc is not a means of securing BTC's, centralized exchanges request for kyc so they would be able to give your data to LE should they request for it. Centralized exchanges sometimes don't even properly protect customers' kyc information, and their database has been hacked in the past, with people's information exposed and sold in the black market; and this can happen again.
BTC isn't anonymous, you can see all tx's in the blockchain, BTC is pseudonymous and because of its transparency it is not such a great tool to be used for money laundering, except for people who know what they are doing. Payment options like cash is more popular for money laundering.

They are only regulating it and at the same time allow crypto. We are going to be just fine as long as we can follow the simple rule that they impose. For me it's better than if we compare it before where they are totally against with it. Not that I'm defending them but no, they don't put all the blame to BTC. They know there are also other cryptos and criminals also use them.

It's just that BTC has a special feature which can favor more the criminals. That doesn't mean that most BTC users are also a criminal. BTC had still done something better, and even the governments can also recognize and thank BTC for it. There is no way that the governments can fully turn BTC into a centralized coin but if let say it's possible, there are still people who will use it.

According to the logic of regulators, if you use mixers, then you have something to hide, but these may just be arguments to show Bitcoin from the bad side. I don’t see anything wrong with using mixers if I want to take care of my anonymity and this doesn’t mean that I’m trying to hide something, it’s just convenient for me. Anything that the government cannot control will be made out to be illegal, I can see that they would like to ban all mixers and would be happy with that.

But even if they slander and defame it, they cannot stop the development of bitcoin , cannot stop people from using it. So I believe it's just a matter of time before they accept it . I remember many years ago, most countries were hostile towards bitcoin , but in recent years,many countries are gradually becoming friendly and accepting bitcoin to a certain extent. In the near future , it is inevitable that the whole world will accept and legalize bitcoin.

I don't expect governments to be able to use bitcoin to replace the current monetary system , but I do think that bitcoin and currency will be able to exist side by side, and bitcoin is an alternative.

They can't make Bitcoin a part of the system even if they close down all the mixers and everything they say allows criminals to do their activities without getting traced, etc. What they are trying to do is to scare people away by showing that Bitcoin is not something good and it's used by criminals and those who use it might get caught for criminal activities which is not true but a lot of people would believe what they are trying to show them.

The system and the governments and their regulatory bodies will do everything possible to push Bitcoin away from their countries and people because they know it's decentralized and it gives them complete freedom for storing and using their wealth without them, the authorities, having any control over that.

There's nothing they can do in speaking about its further development and recognition by the masses. It would really be just coming into a time that awareness would really be that in global scale and they cant really be able to stop it. They could really be that able to throw into those issues or whatsoever things that they could do with Bitcoin on which they cant really be able to stop people on dealing with it and this is one of the
best thing on which its something that can be controlled knowing that Government doesnt really like on things which are decentralized. They would really be always having to say and could make out issues
as they do like or want.

People who are aware or does know about the truth would really be just simply ignoring with these things on which it would really be that so understandable that you would really be that
knowing on what they are really just trying to picture or want really to show on when it comes to those kind of exposure specially on negative ones. Yes, it could bring out that kind of false information
and impression to those newbies but sooner or later on which if the truth would be known then people would really be just normally be switching up
and there's no stopping with that kind of situation.

To some extent , I agree with you but here is my argument,it is possible and 100% sure to track money laundering in banks, however, it is impossible to trace mixed crypto after mixing. And I think they have had enough problem through that mixing of a thing before taking such step. As we, who are educated on bitcoins focused on the acceptance and usage of bitcoins. Other focus on its potential danger to human and the earth. We shouldn't be surprised when we have people not taking side with us, this check and balance help our world become a better place if it is done with the right mind

Mixer is good on its own if not for wicked people using it for bad purpose

If you look at this closely, you would see that Swan is not the problem. First they are a bitcoin-only company so they cannot possible be against bitcoin the reason for their directive is just in compliance with the banking partners internal policies which they have no control over whatsoever. To avoid getting your account backlisted if you have an account with them, any you want to deposit directly from or withdraw directly simply do a couple hops before you do this. You send it from one Bitcoin address to another and you do that maybe two three four times and then do the mixing if that's what you want to do. That way, Swan can't shut down your account.

There are a lot of tools that 'wicked' people use, including the internet, but you don't see the government seriously going after tools such as that, there is only one way i see all of this, and that's that it is an attack against BTC fungibility. Take note that BTC uses a public and transparent ledger, so that makes life very hard for money launderers, and the sum of money they launder is going to be difficult to trade in a p2p exchange, so most likely they will have to use a centralized exchange to convert their funds which attracts more problems, to avoid this, they'll just use other options like fiat.

Honestly, I'm wondering which mentioned made the title in relation to the topic at hand here. Is the title relevant to what
we're talking about here?

Does the creator of this topic mean that the uneducated are bankers and the educated are mixers? Then those in the regulated sector are like that, if you think about it most of the time, to be honest. They only see downsides—the ones where you think their thoughts are so perfect, but the truth is they are not. Because their brains are closed, it is unacceptable that more and more people are discovering that mixers are better at hiding individual data privacy. Also, the Fiat in the bank is also used for money laundering, so I hope others don't worry about it.

Haters will always hate whatever they hate, for whatever reason they have to hate it. And they actually have their own reasons that are sometimes difficult to accept, and often they end in problems related to money and business. When we explain how good and ideal Bitcoin is, for those people who feel disadvantaged by Bitcoin and also don't like Bitcoin will always deny this, and will always look for reasons to continue spreading negative news about Bitcoin. So, no matter how hard we try to explain it, for those who really have their own hidden interests and strong reasons, it will have no effect.

So, don't let us be fooled by various wrong or random information from the Bitcoin haters who have existed so far. because we alone have received various benefits from Bitcoin, right? We already feel it and it really has a positive impact on our lives. After all, is there really something that is 100% perfect and without any loopholes or risks?

I agree with you. Many people out there judge Bitcoin and crypto affiliates are used for illegal activity, but in fact, fiat and affiliates are most used for that. For me, it all depends on whom, Whatever something if it is in the right hands, will definitely be useful. As we know, a knife is very useful to cook, or (our wife, or mother) cutting vegetables in the kitchen, but if not in the right hands, a knife it would be a very dangerous thing, that will be used to commit crimes, such as robbing and kill someone.

So, it's not the main reason to judge Bitcoin and friends because is used for illegal activity, because the harm to others is even greater.

You're right if you're saying banks or fiats crime's going to increase if there wasn't cryptos. It's common talk about how American is presenting regulation to make exchanges fall under their control. It's going to make ppl lose privacy rights if they aren't able to obfuscate transactions they don't want other ppl to know about. If they're using fiat they won't have these problems so mixers are used by ppl who want privacy when they're using cryptos.

If cryptocurrencies are better tools for criminals to do their money laundering from technical aspect to regulatory aspect, they will choose cryptocurrencies. If regulations become stricter against money laundering (AML) through cryptocurrencies, criminals will find other ways and one of them is returning to fiat currencies like they did before blockchains, Bitcoin and cryptocurrencies were created.

Governments will not be able to get rid of money laundering through either banks, fiat currencies or cryptocurrencies and cryptocurrency exchanges.

Those who abuse it certainly want the crimes they commit to run smoothly so that people will not easily judge that what they are doing is not good for themselves and others and if the person who uses it is for good purposes, of course that person will not be able to harm other people and even them. can help people to gain profits from investing or trading so that they can increase their income.

I agree with you, this will really depend on whether they use it for good or bad and we cannot easily remove this from the minds of people who think badly about Bitcoin.

It doesn't matter how much a govt tries they won't be able to stop laundering but it looks like America's going to bring regulation for crypto exchanges. It means AML's going to be forced on ppl if their regulation succeeds. They'll make regulated exchanges legal so if your using a decentralised exchange you'll be breaking the law.

Sad reality. This is why Bitcoin has a lot of haters especially people in the governments or banks because they know that it is really anti to them.
This is the biggest debate at all, the fiat versus Bitcoin where both are being used by criminals or scammers. There are even lot of frauds in fiat than Bitcoin but why they are really into Bitcoin.

OP, if am to understand what you said, I think you mean that some people to know more of Bitcoin and it's doing but in really sense they don't know much as they think, OP, I just understand that all this name given to Bitcoin, is to tarnish it's reputable existence, although bitcoin mixers are not legit because of the process, but I have to tell us that, the government has been looking for a means to down trend bitcoin because their perceived danger, Bitcoin haters should concentrate on their part of business, their has been war in different part of the world, are they trying to tell us that the process of mixing is used for laundering of money for the purchase of weapon, to me, fiat has done more harm than Bitcoin, I see this unfolding events as a calculated attempt to undo bitcoin.

For most of us, watching the governments struggle against Bitcoin and fail repeatedly was a historical experience. It really highlights how unstoppable and incorruptible Bitcoin is. The corrupt are panicking because there is nobody to threaten, nobody to bribe and nobody to blame. Satoshi Nakamoto did good in hiding his identity, otherwise he would have spent his life going from courtroom to courtroom before the government even let him see the inside of a prison cell. I mean can you imagine how much the money printers (the government) must hate the founder of Bitcoin?

Bitcoin is really a huge threat for them knowing that they can't control any transaction happened nor can do anything on their advantage, that's why they usually do some nasty campaigns just to try giving bad shade and have bad impression to the people who use it. But they struggle to make that happen and they fail multiple times that's why some of those officials directly ban it since they can't do anything with this coin.

Satoshi is really great for making his self as part of mystery since as you said if he's identity would be shown for sure he will get a lot of struggle since government will go after him. But since he's still unseen by any public eye then we can conclude that he's still doing good and might he will remain like this forever. Also even if they hate about the existence of bitcoin they can't do anything with it since it became famous now the only thing they can do is to adopt or be outdated so that they can be relevant on evolution of financing in future.

Before the emergence of cryptocurrencies and blockchain, governments also failed to prevent criminals from using fiat currencies and banks. So even if they introduce thousands of regulations or millions of regulations for cryptocurrencies, they still cannot stop crime. Furthermore, although criminals are turning to cryptocurrencies for their criminal activities, not all are using cryptocurrencies, only a small portion, and the majority are still using fiat currencies and banking. But the government never mentioned it. Shows that they are only deliberately trying to defame cryptocurrency, using it as an excuse to oppress us.

Bitcoin, indeed, disrupts traditional power dynamics in finance. Satoshi's anonymity? Genius! Its not just about evading the spotlight; its a statement - decentralization in its truest form. Governments trying to ban Bitcoin? Classic fear response to the unfamiliar. Bitcoin thrives on resistance; its like a hydra, you cut off one head (ban it in one place), it grows two more elsewhere.

The future of finance isnt just about adopting Bitcoin; its about adapting to its philosophy. Transparency, autonomy, decentralization - these arent just buzzwords; they're the new pillars of a financial revolution. And Satoshi? Hes the masked hero of this story, his identity hidden, but his impact undeniable. Bitcoin isnt just a currency; its a movement, and its momentum is unstoppable

If you're saying it's ppl who commit crimes you're right they shouldn't do it or use mixers to hide their crimes. If your govt tells ppl they can't use cryptos unless it's with a regulated exchange what's your action. If they say you can't use a decentralised exchange because it's illegal would you use a mixer?

I think they'll continue to make bitcoin the scapegoat in every case of crime/illegal because bitcoin is a perfect entity conceptually allowing such activities. But implicitly they want to protect banks against bad accusations(or at least reduce it), then they can return to conventional ways (banking) to carrying out such activities with new "supporting" policies.

Those who has to do illegal work will never think about the agent that is it bitcoin or not because if there is no bitcoin then perhaps they use another way. People who become addicted never want to leave illegal activities so its not the fault of bitcoin but actually it is the fault of those people who make negative use of it instead of positive one.

It is also necessary that government should take some steps towards such individuals because if they can stop the use of bitcoin in a country then how they cannot stop their citizens to do so? Remember that a medium is not bad always but the people who are using it negatively are bad because due to negative use by the people the positivity of bitcoin remains hidden so there should be strict rules against individuals who are doing illegal activities.

We will have to wait and see, obviously I support bitcoin but like any revolutionary invention it is bound to affect the interests of different parties that are not going to let go of their privileges just because a new technology has emerged, and it just happens that bitcoin affects two of the most powerful entities around the world, governments and banks, so you can be sure they will put their utmost effort to stop the bitcoin revolution or at least do what they can to sidetrack it.

They are against mixers because the mixers are known to increase privacy of the coins and they don't want the coins to have high privacy. They mostly favor the centralized exchanges because those exchanges share user details with them and that's will help them to speculate those users.

Fiat is more likely to be used for illegal activities than Bitcoin or any other crypto-currency because fiat is available in digital form as well and can be transferred to anyone without any question.

Fiat is also available in physical form and people tend to do more illegal activities with fiat in physical form which we call as cash, and fortunately Bitcoin isn't a physical thing and that's good for everyone.

It's a fact that completely halt down of Bitcoin and other crypto-currencies won't stop the people from doing their illegal activities. Those people will do their illegal activities even without Bitcoin and they have been doing such illegal activities for so many centuries when even Bitcoin wasn't there.

Banks are using blockchain technology for many of their services already. They may not show their support for bitcoin, but individual bankers are personally storing bitcoin in their wallets. You can be sure that those who say bad about bitcoin are actually making the market move down so they can buy at the lower prices and manipulate others to sell.

Criminal activity needs to be controlled and that exists both in fiat and crypto - possible that the latter is giving them some added advantages but forensics are improving too and such criminals are being gradually caught as well.

Mind you, it's not only Bitcoin or crypto currency or fiat that is used for doing illegal activities.
Other forms of exchange medium besides regular fiat or cryptocurrencies exist, it is just fortunate that BTC is still not widely understood and grasped by the major populace and it's only recently more persons are even summoning up the courage to buy crypto assets even as the price of BTC has hit nearly $40k as anticipated it would before December.

Mixers sure encourage anonymity for money launderers, but even those government agencies who are fighting to track and prevent criminals from taking advantage of the decentralized network somehow have investment in them as experiment to learn more about it.

The reason Bitcoin is used for illegal activities is just a trick of people who have interests, long before Bitcoin appeared, criminals used gold - fiat - other jewelry to carry out their dirty transactions, but now they see Bitcoin as an alternative that can be used for transactions. dirty then here I don't see any justice, the government seems to be cornering bitcoin with FUD, mixers are just a service to simplify and disguise transactions but can mixers be said to be a bad thing? Of course not, even without a mixer, criminals can carry out transactions safely.

There isn't a choice for ppl if they want to anonymise their trades so they're going to use mixers. Criminals get encouraged when they see a chance to continue criminality so mixers are an option. If govts begin regulating exchanges because they're trying to limit laundering that's their plan to track but ppl don't want their trades accessible to other ppl.