Bitcoin Forum

The newly elected Argentina president Javier Milei (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5474728.0) have come to the air to announce his decision to shut down the Central Bank of Argentina as one of his new moves as the president of the country. He made mention of this yesterday on his official statement he released on the office’s X social media handle (https://x.com/opearg/status/1728046003876495731?s=46&t=6Rd1Jmm5aGDS_Ll7ou2Sng).

https://i.postimg.cc/JzFjsf88/IMG-2380.jpg
This is the image here.

I have tried to translate it to English using Google online translation tool
“PRESS RELEASE
 City of Buenos Aires, November 24, 2023.-

“The Office of the President Elect of the Argentine Republic communicates that the only official information about the future government, headed by Javier Milei, is that published by this medium.

“In that sense, the economist Osvaldo Giordano will be the head of ANSES and the engineer Horacio Marín will be in charge of YPF as of December 10.

“Regarding the President-elect's agenda, this afternoon he will have a telephone conversation with the president of South Korea, Yoon Suk-yeol.

“On the other hand, given the false rumors spread, we wish to clarify that the closure of the Central Bank of the Argentine Republic (BCRA) is not a negotiable matter.”

From the reactions over the social to this humongous decision, a lot of bitcoin users have expressed gratitude and happiness over the decision including the first thread I highlighted here including this other forum thread (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5474720) whereas others have criticised his decision.

However, my question is, if he's going to be shutting down the central bank, what will be the instrument he will put in place of the bank or is he willing to establish a ‘Bitcoin Bank’ or what exactly?

Well what is the point of the central bank now that their currency is useless. You keep the central bank and they issue new notes, most likely the same inflation problem will happen.

They are better off just using the US dollar or the Euro, and stay out of their own currencies. Many of their citizens stopped using their currency long ago as it was way too unstable.

Probably the country may be using a foreign currency, or have a fiat that uses the average prices of some strong foreign currencies. This is just a guess.

And later bitcoin may also be a legal tender in Argentina.

The central bank have function, but inflation is the indication of bad economy which their government is responsible for. They can tell their central bank not to inflate their currency and let their economy to collapse.

I watched this man during their election campaign debate and he did not hide mouth about closing the central bank. This kept me wondering how he will go about it and if it is even possible. If yes, how will he regulate their monetary system and will the global financial system will allow it? I don't know if such a thing has happened before and how they managed their banking system.

I feel the man may go the way of El Salvador by legalising Bitcoing. Another option will be to adopt the use of foreign currency like the dollar, the same thing Zimbabwe did during their turmoil.  Well, let's keep fingers crossed and watch as events unfolds. I wish him good luck.

Argentina and its economy is going to have dark years ahead with a crazy person as president. He will continue making horrible decisions and ruin the country for decades. I know in this forum people are only focusing on Bitcoin and this central bank thing but it is not just that, it is all his bigger and crazier moves such as cutting ties with the neighbors in South America and specifically BRICS.

This is what happens when non-politicians become politicians! He is basically Zelenski 2.0 who is set out to ruin the country.

I'm a bit skeptical of this news, and am undecided as to whether him closing down Argentina's central bank is going to be a good thing or bad thing at the end of this.

Of course, he better replace it with something else, and quickly, because I don't think a government can function properly without a financial organ of its own.

The central bank in a country is the reason for inflation in a country because its supply continues to be unstoppable, if using international currencies such as the euro might be better, even if there is an agenda to use Bitcoin as a means of payment, it is much better personally, and if the dump will be more measurable recovery, bitcoin in the joint movement is certainly more useful.
Changing the new President is certainly an adaptation, I agree that any country if led by someone who listens more to the aspirations of the people in parliament, of course the country will be systematic, even more establishing new relationships with other countries. Any action adds a correlation with the previous country. Currency can build a country as well as good and wise governance, who knows when. But we can see the characteristics of an improving economy from suppressing the reduced inflation rate, because to recover 0% from such a difficult condition and it takes time.

I hope he knows what he is doing, as this path he chose to walk on can be a very bad idea for the people in that country.

All those who are happy about this because it's Bitcoin related, I want to ask you a question, what is here to be happy about? Is the people in the country going to start using Bitcoin as their means of payment? I think its a no, so what?

I believe they will have to go with US dollars or something else, but I need you all to think about the repercussions than the advantages, is he doing this rightfully? It seems the answer is still a no for me, but only time will tell.

I agree that some of the decisions he has made has been rash, looking like they were made for the shock effect of wanting to change things at the snap of the finger rather than having a long term goal in mind, but politicians have been failing for years unend now.

I don't think we should highlight the non-politicians who entered into leadership positions as an argument against it, we have had a truckload of politicians running economies to the ground and there are non-politicians who have done well in their time in charge.

A bit off the mark, the inflation will not stay the same, it is going to get worse because that is how an uncontrolled inflation operates, the more your banks print paper money, the more you are going to devalue your currency. Definitely better off using USD or Euro but these solutions are temporary because they are not a US territory and they are not a part of the European Union so it is not the best fix. I do not know much about Milei but there is going to be a lot of things that he has to change and those change are going to be met with some resistance from those that have benefited from the old system. I hope that his friendly terms with bitcoin is accompanied by actions because if a lot of people thinks that bitcoin might be able to help Argentinians to combat the inflation, I guess that Milei using his position to create laws or policies that are bitcoin friendly is a must watch thing right now.

Had it been we are in April I would have said it's an "April fool" prank, nevertheless, I am not conversant with Argentina matters, and neither do I know their official sites and handles, however, if this is real, then this is an example of another idiocy in rulership.

This is why you don't just vote based on the richness and popularity of the contestants but vote based on good manifestos, antecedents and the wisdom coming out of the person. A whole central bank of a nation being pulled down? Or you guys didn't get the president's gist very well? He might mean he's shutting it for a while to overhaul/restructure it. Because it's so difficult for me to comprehend such as the work of the central bank is limitless when it comes to functions and interventions both at home and abroad. And for those Bitcoin lovers praising him, will he now use Bitcoin to settle international payments? I don't possibly know. I don't just know why folly follows some people around, they can't just think with their brains but with their legs.

Central bank is inevitable in every country, perhaps, the guy wants to call it a different name entirely but would still be saddled with the same functions and responsibilities. Time will tell on this as this idea is unimaginable to me, so gross, lame and ill-conceived.

There's a difference between closing the central bank and closing banks in general — both are very different things.

As for whatever a 'bitcoin bank' is, I doubt it. They're likely to adapt the USD as I've read in some article on Twitter.

You can't rule anything out with this guy as a president, but I don't see him making bitcoin legal tender. More precisely, if he goes down that road, I don't see him making bitcoin the only legal tender. Argentina will probably use one of the world's reserve currencies for the time being and perhaps bitcoin will become a secondary asset adopted alongside. I have never been of the opinion that you should force people to use BTC. Making it the only legal tender does exactly that. It forces you to use it. It should be an option you switch to if you want and if you see value in it. That's the natural way to foster adoption.

I believe they will be using USD as their main currency for now. I don't think they will go for btc as their main.
But even if btc will be secondary in their options, I think, it will already add to adoption in their country.
We will see in the coming days how they will work around with their financial institutions and implement protocols towards the crypto market.
As of now, they are not banning nor making btc as legal tender, they are just open to this currency.

I hope that he has a currency in his mind that Argentina will fall to after he has closed down the central bank. Maybe he will be using USD, but isn't this change too quick. he shouldn't rush things but do them gradually with proper considerations before implementing it so that he doesn't make decisions that will lead to messing the economy of Argentina more. I hope to see which currency he will use to replace their fiat currency because I know that it can never be bitcoin because this will be impossible.

Central banks can not control inflation of their fiat currencies but they are not only entities are responsible for a national economic. It is very naive to think that shutting down a current central bank will help to solve something big in the nation. Argentina as a nation and in the globalization world, will have to work, cooperate with other nations too.

They can not stay outside the common format of the world and of national central bank. It's non-negotiable, and I don't say it is a joke, but there will be many challenge to execute it as well as get acceptance from IMF. It can not be a measure from a single nation to wipe out all national debt, it won't be allowed.

I do not think that the new president's decision to close the Argentine Central Bank is a right decision unless there is an alternative available and ready to replace all the services that the Central Bank was performing.

We are, of course, in favor of removing centralization and replacing it with Bitcoin and decentralization, but these steps must be well thought out and planned in advance, otherwise they could have disastrous consequences for the country’s economy and the proper functioning of the economic system as a whole.

I do not know what exactly the new president intends and whether he is thinking about replacing the central bank with Bitcoin, but it is his duty to think carefully about every step he takes and study the political and economic dimensions.

Well on the horrifying fronts all the news articles over the internet correlating new president and Bitcoin relationship on whole new levels. Literally some of them are stating that Bitcoin rose by 3% just because Milei got his presidency. I’m not sure why are they relating it but one article also covers how he could be supercharging the country with crypto. Could be the reason why we discussing this today with Milei and his decisions to Break down the central banking system. If he is crazy enough to go like Ek Salvador then who knows he might just be the reason to take crypto seriously.

There are going to be only two things in the future: Either Argentina will actually become supercharged with crypto environment or it will end up in crushed economy.

You have my thought on this Argentinian new regime, I'm also wondering how the new president will fulfill his electoral promises. I don't know how a country can function financially without a central bank, if perhaps he's talking about a total overhaul of the financial system, that is understandable. So how does he run their financial system without a central body? Who will regulate the cash flow in the economy? I hope he has a full proof plan for this.

People in the crypto space are happy that he's a bitcoin enthusiast , that hopefully he'll make it a legal tender in Argentina. No doubt this will complete bitcoin adoption in that county, and if it works out well for their economy, other countries in similar situations can learn from them and also adopt bitcoin digital decentralized currency.

I know it's been said here and several other places across the internet and probably in print too but this is more then likely going to be a disaster for Argentina.
The US central bank (Federal Reserve) is designed and setup to help the US. Not Argentina or any other country. You can't just go along for the ride. They FR can and will do things that are great for the US economy they can and will do things that may be not great for the US economy and everything in between.

How it will effect Argentina's economy is not important to them and if they do something that is good for the US but sinks Argentina into a decade of financial ruin. Then well it sucks to be them not our problem.

-Dave

Interesting take. I thought everybody was looking forward to seeing Argentina ditch the central bank to find their own solution. It has so far seemingly worked well for El Salvador, so Argentina has a guide to show them how they could be successful adoption Bitcoin as their national currency. I think predicting total disaster may be premature.

So BRICS just went PIECES?  :D :D
And the famous de-dollarization turns out to be a dollarization after all ?
What a surprise! /s

Now the really surprising thing is how many bitcoin users are coming out sand say that we need Central Banks that we need a Central bank for a country to function, that some must have their freedom of printing money....lol, for real?


I think that's a bit of exaggeration, and mainly because two things
- the FR might f* u Argentina for 10 years but the current CB and government have done it for 40
- what the FR does might be good for the US and bad for Argentina, but looking at how diverse the US is, what's good for California and bad for Argentina might be an apocalypses for Montana, and we have an even better picture with the EU, some decision might suck for some but it's well better than how it was a few decades ago. Yeah 5-10% inflation sucks but coming from 100% in the 90's it's like a spa trip.


Salvador still has a central bank.
https://www.bcr.gob.sv/

But they didn't find their own solution. They are piggybacking on someone else's. Their GDP is only $490 billion and a lot of places report that to be an inflated number.
Assuming it's true they have the economy of a medium US state. But here all the states play along with mostly the same rules.

Argentina has their own rules. So even minor things like money movement can matter. Banks here have to report cash movement over $10k and a bunch of other things. If Argentina  does not play by those same rules how long till people figure out it's a great place to launder money, then how long till other repercussions happen.

How will businesses in the financial sector in Argentina work with that in terms of interest rates and liquidity?
How will trade partners work with this? What exchange rate will be fixed with contracts that were on their old currency? What if they are trading with a US sanctioned country?
And so on. It's a long path to get it done.

I'm not saying it will not work out. Just pointing out that it's not a magic we are going to do this thing and it will work out. There are 1000s of moving parts that have to be figured out 1st.


But the FR would not be able to pass something that is an apocalypse for Montana. That is kind of the point. It might be not great for Montana and perhaps actively bad for Utah. However, they would not allow a state / regional economy to implode since it would take more states with it. Doing something that causes Argentina to fall off the globe and Chile is now the southern tip of South America does not enter into the US FR thinking.


-Dave

Well, considering how the local fiat has been doing in Argentina (not great since the start of the 21st century and really-really bad since 2018), it's not surprising that he's planning to shut down the Central Bank. I don't know if it's within his power as the president to do so, but the idea makes sense. Shutting down the Central Bank, however, doesn't mean that they'll adopt Bitcoin as their main currency. Maybe he wants another authority to try launching a new coin; maybe he'll switch to another country's relatively stable fiat; maybe he'll let the local currency go into free-fall for the market to determine its price. I really hope that whatever he ends up doing improves the situation or, at least, doesn't make it worth.

Since Milei wants to use the dollar as a replacement of the local currency of Argentina, in a way he will not be working without a central bank, as the FED will also become the central bank of Argentina in actual fact.

However this does not need to be a permanent change, it could make sense to make this move to stabilize the economy for a few years, and once things are back on track then a new central bank controlled by the Argentinian government could be created.

This is a very headhshaking comment, I reckon. There are clearly are advantages and disadvantages, however, using the dollar will certainly be switching from being a monetary sovereign to something similar as an underling to the American government.

It might be better to fix their monetary problems internally and to not concede currency sovereignty because this would certainly place them under the fiscal instability of America.

Someone who has spent a large portion of their lives in politics has the most important thing: experience. Even if a large number of existing politicians have been incompetent and have messed up, that still doesn't mean we should look outside and bring people in who have zero experience in politics and in leading a country!

It's like if developers of a project weren't coding well and the project had bugs, and to solve it we decide to kick them out and bring in people who have never written a single line of code in their lives!

The point is that there is a third option between choosing among the existing incompetent politicians and new inexperienced and volatile people. Unfortunately a lot of countries are choosing the later these days because these "celebrities" are proficient in gaining "followers" by advertising themselves.

I thought they were going to use the dollar, so excuse my ignorance but why would they need a central bank if they on the dollar. Not that I'm defending the dollar, I get the evils of the dollar and all fiat and central banks are slave owners. Just not sure what the central bank would do without a currency to manipulate. I'm sure I'm missing a lot, and would be so cool if they were going on Bitcoin standard. On Dollar standard not sure what central banks role would be, so not sure what this news means.

I beg to disagree here. If that experience has failed time and again even if all the factors to succeed were present then it simply means that, experience does not equate to results. It's also about the willingness and desire to do what's right and make the hard decisions.
Leaders do not lead in isolation, they have advisers, people handling different aspects of the nation and economy, if you can get the best hands on the job, with no political bias involved, you are more than likely to succeed as a leader.

Well it's a shame politics does not have a special training or requirements so it can't be likened to coding of any other skill jobs.

A lot do not even have a choice at all, but that's a whole different topic.

I reckon Nayib Bukele can be placed in a category of inexperienced politician, however, he is doing good for his country. Is he not? It depends on the person sitting on the executive seat and while there are disadvantages on Javier Milei's decision to drop their currency and redollarize Argentina, we have not witnessed what he can really do for his country. We should wait before we make negative assumptions. I have learned this when I gave my own negative assumptions on Bukele. I have admitted this mistake already hehehe.

That's true but then again experience comes in handy here too. One needs to have built connections and know "people" to be able to choose their advisors wisely and not end up with malicious behind the scene actors giving them malicious advice for personal gains.

No, I wouldn't categorize Bukele as inexperienced. He has studied Law and became Mayor in 2012 and remained in politics until his election as president in 2019. That's at least 7 years of good experience in office with an important position (ie. mayor) doing actual work.

In comparison Milei studied economics and the only involvement he had in politics has been insulting others in interviews and creating controversies, and finally joining a right-wing political coalition (radicals) that led to his election. That is zero actual experience.

I agree that only time would tell but right now we are only speculating based on the data we have.

Experience does play a role, but not necessarily in politics. I don't need to be in politics to know someone who can effectively handle the health sector, or football sector etc. In the end it's all down to a blend of both sides of the coin.

If I had the option to choose between an experienced politician who has failed repeatedly in the past and an untested and inexperienced politician with promise, I will go with the latter option every single time.

Well, it is obvious that their Central Bank are useless and that it is dragging down their economy, so it will be better to shut it down, before it leads to an inevitable collapse.

The problem is still the political decisions that are made.. that are contributing to their bad economy. They should also know that the World Bank will pull it's loans to the country, if they drop Fiat currencies, because that is the hold that they have over countries.  ::)

These are very simplistic statements for something very complicated but I understand what you are trying to imply. However, a country dropping their own currency and using another country's currency would be giving up being a monetary sovereign. If this country decides to use the American dollar, similar to El Salvador, then the country will become a servant of the government of America. They would presently need to borrow or acquire dollars to use and spend. They would also suffer dollar inflation and interest rates. This is contrary to before where the country was the issuer of their own currency.

This sounds like the best news update I have heard in recent times, and to think that i just got to know that the newly elected president is a Bitcoin supporter still baffles me. He made no mistakes about his stance on the digital space as his actions are loud enough for the deaf to hear and the blind to see.

Shutting down the central bank of any nation is not a childs play, it has its pros and cons and i believe the president knows this very well. For him to have it shut down shows he has a better plan and I trust it to be geared towards the digital space.. Great move if you ask me

It is still too soon to pass the final verdict but after seeing this post on reddit (https://redd.it/18jpsut) I thought it is good to share it here as an update regarding the first signs of bad decisions that affect the economy in a severely bad way.

Argentina inflation shot up to 160% and at this rate if they actually try replacing Peso with Dollar at some point in the future, regular people won't be left with much in their pockets because of the low exchange rate.

This is the 5 year chart from google showing Peso exchange rate against USD with the unprecedented recent jump and it's not a good start:
https://www.talkimg.com/images/2023/12/16/ELXd3.jpeg

P.S. After typing this a dangerous thought passed my mind. Is it possible that this crash is intentional? We've had similar decisions made elsewhere when the government or the central bank had been facing issues for a long time and wanted to make a change (dump their fiat, replace bank notes, etc.) and they dump the exchange rate like this intentionally. In all cases it crushed the economy and the middle class.

Populists always say what the people want to hear, and does anyone really think that the central bank of Argentina is the main culprit for a decade of crazy policies that destroyed that same country that used to be in the top 10 countries in the world? Foreign interests always have two courses of action when it comes to the "subjugation" of countries, and the first is certainly the economic destruction of the country, and if that doesn't work, the second option is war.

Did you see where Milei went on his first visit and who are his role models? In addition, look at where he appointed the former governor of the central bank and his associates, and then he talks about some kind of savings in the state administration.

---

I understand that you don't want to (or can't think differently), but we in Europe consider President Zelensky to be an extremely brave man who is doing everything to defend his country, and thus the rest of Central and Western Europe, from the creation of a new Russian world. Comparing someone with the nickname "El Loco" to a man who stood up to one of the greatest military powers is completely meaningless.

The problems with Zelenski is not what he is doing now (what else were he going to do? Give up after the invasion and not send the army forward from the safety of his bunker?!! lol)
The problem is all his naïve actions, statements, incitements and "pokes" that led to the conflict with the neighbor! Everything that could have been avoided if an actual politician were in office and for example instead of bringing Russia's enemy #1 to 400 km from Moscow could took both US and Russia by the balls and milk them both for the benefit of his country and ensure its security.

What do you think Erdogan in Turkey has been doing all these years? More so in the past 2 years... ;)

I know that in Europe there is a dictated status quo but if you spend time studying history of what led to the conflict from sources other than the censored mainstream media you can see that when it comes to lack of experience and naïve and in some cases very suspicious behavior that is harmful to the country, both Milei and Zelenski are pretty similar.

I don't think closing their central bank is a good idea. Every country must have a currency that represents them. That's not to say Bitcoin is not good, but I feel bitcoin is meant to serve as an alternative currency.

As for their currency losing value, I don't think switching to Bitcoin would make their country rich, as long as they don't follow the right steps to fix their economy, they will continue to fail. So closing down a central bank is the least of their problem. It's not like he will be there forever, when his term is over, the next president can decide to change that.

crazy Milei shutting down the only institution that holds them to be considered an independent country. but maybe this guy has been talking to Bukele as well like he could also declare BTC as legal tender in Argentina.

but most probably the central bank will be replaced with CBDC as reported they will be using USD. maybe stablecoin as well so they are getting ready to make BTC legal tender too and then go on with stablecoins. if only there were stablecoins for each country which can also be used by the rest of the world the better it would be to close central banks.

He wants the US dollar to be the main currency of his country, which is why labeling him as "pro-Bitcoin" is a bit misleading, as he is "pro-dollar" first, and pro-Bitcoin after that. It's likely that his policies will make it easier to use Bitcoin in Argentina, but I doubt there will be push for Bitcoin's use as a currency, simply because Bitcoin's scalability won't allow it. And for Bitcoin as a store of value/investment all he needs to do is to tell banks not to ban Bitcoin-related transactions.

If you think that the problem is that someone wants to live according to their own rules in their country and not be obedient to someone who thinks that Ukraine should not be part of the EU and NATO, then you do not understand what freedom and the right to free decision are at all. In your opinion, President Zelensky should have agreed to everything Putler asked and become a Russian colony so that the Holodomor (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor) would happen to them again?


Do you want to say that all the people of the world except Russia, Iran and maybe North Korea live in a censored world where there is no truth? Unfortunately, I went through what Ukrainians are going through today, and it was even worse because the world imposed sanctions on the import of weapons - but according to you, the Serbian butchers with the war criminal Slobodan Milosevic were positive people who just didn't want NATO at their door, so they did the same what are the Russians doing today?

I don't understand how you can put those two men in the same sentence at all, what does a man who is called a El Loco have in common with a man who fights for the literal survival of their country and the people who live there?

Oh and now just because you don't like this guy Central Banks have become the pillar of a nation, they express the identity of the citizens there, the fiat they print is the blood that runs though our veins, right?


Yes, he actually think so!
He also believes Iran is the world superpower, that Iran has the highest freedom index, the best living standards in the worlds and they live in a prefect democracy, beating women and killing them for not wearing a hijab is normal, men wearing jeans is a sign of decadence and much more  ;)
Not to mention that invading and funding terrorist's is normal and good, it's only bad when somebody else is doing it!

So yeah, just because NATO bombed Serbia in another war, that makes in his mind Croatia the pawn of the USA!


As for the rate, that is nothing burger.
The rate of the ~365 for the dollar was the fake rate established by the government, the actual black market rate was already 1:1000, it is called blue dollar it even has it's own ticker:
https://bluedollar.net/

I've been seeing a lot of policies of this man and I have a lot of questions. How exactly is the country going to function without the central banks? What's the point of banks if there is no central bank? That means they will no longer print more currencies. And who will regulate the banks? How will the fiat be created?
Even if he wants to use the currency of the US, won't they print theirs?

Also, I saw a video where he said a lot of ministries would be eliminated when he was president.  Sports, culture and tourism, environment, public works, science and technology, education, transportation, and health would all be eliminated. I'd like to know how he intends to run the country without these ministries.

I also do not believe he's pro-Bitcoin because he has said nothing of such.

Why do you people see everything in black and while? It is either 0% or 100% for you, isn't it?
In the real world there is a lot of other options between bending over to all Russian demands and bending over for all US demands!

There are a lot of countries in this world that are like "proxies" and have to act like one. That means they should never lean to either side for too long but remain in the middle (different from being neutral). I don't know the technical term but we call it "Pendulum Policy" and the best example of it is Turkey which I mentioned already and sadly you just ignored it.
Turkey has been performing this policy beautifully and for many years. A very dependent country that can not afford to fully lean to either side. This is exactly why Turkey never shut its door to Russia despite the Western pressures. Everything about Turkey is "in the middle", from geography to culture and politics. The US F-35 versus Russian S-400 game they played is an excellent example. That's how the "pendulum" goes back and forth between two sides bringing benefits for the country from both sides while not going fully against either side.

History is filled with cases like this too. I'd say the most significant one is Cuba. Have you heard about Operation Mongoose? A campaign of terrorist attacks against civilians and various operations inside Cuban soil carried out by the US regime.
Why did United States commit terrorism in Cuba? Because Cuban government did in the 60's what Ukraine government did in the 2000's. They allowed the enemy of their neighbor to use their soil for its own operations! As they say "those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it".
Didn't "freedom and the right to free decision" apply to Cubans?!!!

The worst part of all this is that you talk about EU and NATO as if they have not done the same exact thing as Russia one way or another! How many countries has NATO invaded? How many civilians they've killed? Heck even as we speak NATO is supporting an ongoing genocide right across the Mediterranean!

Why did you feel the need to single out these 3 countries? Did you think that if people live in "a censored world" in these countries that automatically means there is no censorship in Europe?!! What kind of logic is that?

Are you talking about Yugoslav Wars? Don't assume what I think. I wouldn't even compare the two. If I wanted to compare I compare Ukraine with Cuba as I did above. And I'm not justifying invasion, I'm just narrating how the world works but you just get so defensive because you don't like a different view than the "status quo".

I already said that I'm comparing the two men based on their lack of experience in political scene and bad decisions they've made in their short political carriers. More specifically all the decisions Zelenskly made from 20 May 2019 to 24 February 2022, not from 24 February 2022 onward.