Bitcoin Forum

Jamie Dimon said many times that Bitcoin is a fraud.

JPMorgan's Dimon says bitcoin 'is a fraud' (https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSKCN1BN2PM/)
JPMorgan to give all wealth clients access to crypto funds (https://www.reuters.com/business/finance/jpmorgan-give-all-wealth-clients-access-crypto-funds-business-insider-2021-07-22/).
Dimon’s many bitcoin moments of regret, in one chart (https://www.marketwatch.com/story/all-the-times-dimon-may-regret-bashing-bitcoin-in-one-chart-2018-01-09).

Hours ago, SEC. approved 11 Bitcoin Spot ETFs and the big decision from SEC. is a valid recognition for Bitcoin. It is no longer a fraud and legally accepted in a biggest economic country USA.

‘Bitcoin Has No Value’: JP Morgan’s Jamie Dimon Says as Market Awaits ETF (https://decrypt.co/212325/bitcoin-has-no-value-jp-morgans-jamie-dimon).

Bitcoin is not dead and Bitcoin is not a fraud. Since 2024, people in the USA. can invest in Bitcoin through Bitcoin Spot ETFs.

It is a very big win for Bitcoin and Bitcoin Spot ETF actually opens a new era for Bitcoin investors.

Gold ETFs changed gold price a lot. (https://www.businessinsider.com/gold-etf-driving-gold-price-appreciation-2012-12)

I do not know much about him, and why he would be related, but I see that as an issue to us. If we focus on what others are saying about us, we are not going to get anything done, we need to realize that this is not what we should be doing and we need to realize that we are at a point of turn in bitcoins history that if we could get this ETF actually approved, like it should be, then we are going to have something magnificent.

Price already took over to 47k levels and I think that should be the most important part, ignore who said what about bitcoin, we shouldn't be bitter about peoples opinions, let them all have their own opinion, as long as I keep making profit from bitcoin, I do not have any trouble with them saying anything at all.

Why should anyone care what Jamie Dimon or any other banker thinks about Bitcoin? It is quite normal that all bankers (or the majority) have a negative opinion about Bitcoin, which is completely opposite to what they do and what they make profits from. Of course, as people who are always looking for ways to make money, bankers will look for ways to profit from Bitcoin, but never in a way that they will treat it as a currency.

I see that most people on this forum live in the illusion that the approval of spot BTC ETFs in the US is a sign that "they", and especially Gensler, think positively about Bitcoin, but the truth is that nothing has changed in this regard.

That's true; the ETF approval doesn't necessarily mean that they suddenly accepted Bitcoin as a currency or as an investment asset. The majority of bankers and politicians are against cryptocurrencies in general, and Bitcoin is not an exception either. Jamie Dimon isn't the first banker to state such an opinion; who is that guy anyway? Why should anyone bother? He's not the first, and he won't be the last either. How I see things is that they at least finally understood that they cannot stop the advancement of Bitcoin; thus, they're trying to have a share of that cake as well.

Personally, I expected a larger hype due to the ETF approval, which I find a little odd. Although it's still a positive event, if we suppose that it hadn't been approved, Bitcoin would still survive and would continue to progress.

That the SEC approved these spot ETFs only means they finally caved under the pressure from the likes of Black rock and Grayscale. The latter having won a court case of sorts over them and it will be unwise to think that because Gary Gensler approved those applications, it means he's now Bitcoin friendly
 
We're all aware of how much the SEC will do anything to have prolonged these ETFs but I guess the fact that many eyes are on them sort of changed the plan.

For Dimon's case, it's not news of how apathetic he is to Bitcoin and as long as people are entitled to giving their opinions, they should do it as it won't change the fact that Bitcoin is a moving train that can't be stopped and if for anything I guess that's the reason for his chronic displeasure.

Sometimes I wonder why they feel the financial institutions are less prone to money laundering or fraudulent activities and prefer to paint Bitcoin to be the bad guy. Is it that the financial institutions are more secure and have a tight security?

One thing I saw is that after the ETFs were approved, many people gloated and started repeating the names of people who criticized bitcoin, calling bitcoin a scam to mock them. But does this make us better? Does it make us richer than them? And is there any guarantee that they are not secretly investing in bitcoin?

I think this will go nowhere and will not bring any benefit to our bitcoin investment. Instead, we should focus on our investments and improve our position and change our lives from our investments for the better.

Before now I used to read comments from people who have no knowledge about Bitcoin yet come up periodically with clueless predictions about the Bitcoin market. Jamie Dimon is an agent of FUD and anybody who believes these fake predictions will regret their actions later. It is a free world, however, where people are free to express their views about anything. So Jamie Dimon is free to say what he thinks about Bitcoin, but his views turned out to be wrong.

I am also surprised that the price has not gone high after the approval. Could it be that the series of false approvals affected the confidence of potential investors? Nevertheless, these ETF firms just started trading today, hopefully, more money will be attracted to the market. But the price has remained stable which is a pointer that the market might be heading towards less volatility.

I think that it is ok to call out influencial people that criticized Bitcoin that it was a fraud, their stance on Bitcoin will undoubtedly influence multitude of people who follow them to think like them. So a milestone like this Bitcoin ETF that shows the SEC approval is a testament of the acceptance Bitcoin as a valued investment asset. So the likes of Jamie Dimon, who are renowned in the financial industry will understand that despite their personal negative opinions about Bitcoin that it's acceptance will keep increasing. I totally agree that we should concentrate more on our investment plans in Bitcoin, than on people that calls it a fraud.

Why are you so upset about someone who never understood Bitcoin? Similar statements for Bitcoin, he made have been made before and that is precisely why Bitcoin remains strong. The idea of decentralization is a concern for someone holding the top position in a centralized infrastructure. As a community, we have encountered objections from people similar to him before. It's important not to dwell on these criticisms, as we know that Bitcoin will continue to grow and will one day become a legal tender worldwide. There's no need to complain to or engage with individuals who doubt Bitcoin's potential. I feel you would agree with my highlighted statement.

here is the way to imagine it

swap bitcoin for wheat
swap SEC for EPA
swap CEX/de-fi for local/independent farms
swap ETF for big agri
swap AP for industrial farms
swap asset for commodity

now here is the story
big agri commodity traders want to control wheat trade deals. control the price and such. so they lobby the EPA to restrict family farms from doing trade so that big-agri can have advantage. they want to unnaturalise wheat into two categories. dirty wheat and clean monsanto wheat

they send inspectors out to advertise people should clean their wheat and offer services. but then once clean they then claim the family farms are using wheat tainted with plague or not registering their wheat seed with monsanto as legitimate so sue the family farms. the EPA also come along and require family farms to meet higher standards of processing wheat than big agri. because big agri can self regulate

industrial farms wants the commodity wheat exposure for trading but doesnt want the local independent farms wheat as they sees it as dirty unregistered stuff

wheat is not fraud. it suppose to be natural and un-patent-able... but in big agri eyes they see it as plague wheat or monsanto wheat. both of which they dont want independent farms trading without their permission and higher standards and inspections


make sense?
the game is not new

Last I checked, he was still running a company that, on more than one occasion, has been charged with fraud and market manipulation, which makes him a colossal hypocrite.    :D

I think he was just jealous that he wasn't allowed to interfere in our market (until now, anyway).  There was market rigging to be done and he clearly felt left out.   ::)

https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/jpmorgan-chase-co-agrees-pay-920-million-connection-schemes-defraud-precious-metals-and-us
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-25641476
etc

His comments still matters??? I thought Bitcoin community had forgotten and forgiven Jemie for his childish comments long back. I remember Jemie's comment had actually made an impact on Bitcoin price back in 2017. But after that the cryptocurrency community have realised that he doesn't matter at all.

Late him speak, let him hurl all the abuses he knows. Let him weep and do whatever he wants to do. He does not matter. Success is best enjoyed in silence.

A person is successful in his activities and no one will dispute this. But it seems to me that all of Dimon’s recent actions are aimed at gaining popularity, fame and recognition. Although I could be wrong of course.

He lied just like many people from government and in society who dislike Bitcoin, want to find any reason to say Bitcoin is a fraud, is bad and so on.

Democrats Dissent On SEC Spot Bitcoin Approval, Gensler Distances Himself From 'Terrorist-Financing' Crypto. (https://www.zerohedge.com/crypto/sec-approves-spot-bitcoin-etf-real-time)
The original source for Commissioner Hester M. Peirce's statement (https://www.sec.gov/news/statement/peirce-statement-spot-bitcoin-011023)
Hester Peirce used very strong words to express her opinion on this issue, role of SEC. and what they did before this approval batch includes many shame faults. I consider her letter is like a direct strong slap against Gary Gensler.

Gary Gensler spread lies again even he voted Yes.
Statement on the Approval of Spot Bitcoin Exchange-Traded Products (https://www.sec.gov/news/statement/gensler-statement-spot-bitcoin-011023)

As strange as it may seem, many people have the need to constantly listen and watch people like Jamie, Buffett, Mr. Mars or Gates because they admire them for some reason. I believe that many respect their opinion to the extent that they want nothing to do with Bitcoin because of their views.

Sheep always follow the leader of the flock, so let's say that one Saylor has only 3.2 million followers on shitter, and Mr. Mars even has 169 million followers. There is no doubt about whose opinion people value more.

But we don't know what their real purpose is when they do those things. Rich people never want to share their wealth with others, so they will find ways to keep others away from ways to become rich like them. I mean, those who spread negative things about bitcoin don't mean they hate bitcoin and don't invest in it. Maybe they're just trying to keep people away from it so they can enjoy bitcoin for themselves. Honestly, I have a feeling that the people who talk bad about bitcoin are the ones who own it the most. So when we criticize them, it doesn't have any effect or benefit, and it's like we're falling into their trap.

Huge banks like Chase will probably look into bitcoin ETFs more carefully and intensely now that they have been approved. Their business is to make money, and I don't think Dimon's huge ego will stop this from manifesting. Financial collosals like Blackrock and Valkyrie  installing their permanent seats on this new venture will surely make bank executives to do a second take on whether they're going to bite the crypto bullet or just keep on meddling with their traditional investment vehicles. Give it some time, and once Dimon sees that bitcoin is just not another 'snake oil' like he's thinking, he'll certainly jump aboard the bitcoin ship.

Jamie Dimon has been talking trash about bitcoin for years now, but at the same time his bank, if I recall correctly, does offer some possibility to invest in bitcoin, I don't remember how and I don't care anyway. For me he just tries to manipulate a little the market with his declarations. Of course nobody should care about his opinions, he has nothing to share with the crypto world.

Some people just enjoy making loud statements because it gives them publicity, and some think there's no such thing as bad publicity. Also, some people are against Bitcoin because they've made their wealth in traditional markets and consider Bitcoin a threat to those markets, something unnecessary and destabilizing. I don't know what kind of person he is, but I believe it's embarrassing to be so wrong about Bitcoin when you're supposed to be good at Economics and at understanding investments. It's either his emotions or a strategic choice to capitalize on publicity that prevent him from being objective about Bitcoin.

It's absolutely OK to be looking for publicity, but he should definitely be careful in what he says. I can't find the video right now, but in that video, Jamie Dimon said that he believes SATASHI, yes he actually said SATASHI, will come back and either "increase" the Bitcoin supply or "erase" it.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

He's very misinformed about Bitcoin and it's so laughable that he goes on T.V. talking like he has practical knowledge on the system. The smartest and the most technical people in Bitcoin couldn't sometimes agree what Bitcoin is or have the same viewpoint, but Jamie Dimon talks like he knows everything about it.

In a way this is all good for Bitcoin because when people like Dimon say some nonsense about Bitcoin like "it is fraud" and when people know he and his company are the most fraudulent beings in this world, they can know the sides a lot better.

One side is the side of Bitcoin where we have an exit route from the fraudulent system and the other side is that fraudulent system that is attacking Bitcoin and spreading FUD about it.

The day criminals and crooks like Jamie Dimon start praising Bitcoin is the day we should start worrying...

Jamie Dimon does free advertisement for Bitcoin even he does not use good words to say about Bitcoin.

Some people will quickly believe in Jamie Dimon's words and ignore Bitcoin but some will be exposed to Bitcoin a first time ever by watching Interviews of Jamie Dimon. If they are hard core people, they will do their due diligent researches and eventually will discover something good for their finance.

With each Bitcoin halving, we have more fud but at the same time, more intensity of appearances for Bitcoin on television, social media and it brings a lot of good contribution for Bitcoin adoption.

It's not about "what's good for Bitcoin" and how it would change their point of view. It's how Jaime Dimon, who's truly a smart banker who saved J.P. Morgan during 2008 Financial Crisis, could be very misinformed/stupid about Bitcoin to say that "SATASHI" could come back to increase the supply, or "erase" the supply.

They merely notice the "Coin", and ignore the network/breakthrough of Nakamoto Consensus and how that solves the Byzantine General’s Problem, which makes it possible to build truly decentralized systems.

He is making money. Millions and millions.

Do you think he is not making money from bitcoin? Then you are a fool. Just because he doesn't like bitcoin, doesn't mean he is not going to make money from trading bitcoin. When there is money to be made, it will be made and JPM is very good at playing this game.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JPMorgan_Chase

That guy may have said that to manipulate the markets. You'll never know what his real intention was.

If you ask me, it's not about whether Jaime Dimon hates Bitcoin or not, or whether J.P. Morgan is making money from it or not. It's how misinformed he is about Bitcoin, and he talks as if he knows or understands how the system works. He's an intelligent man, and if he could set hubris aside, I believe he would respect what the protocol is trying to do technically although knowing that Bitcoin would eat through centralized financial systems.


Perhaps, then would he say positive things about Bitcoin to manipulate the price to surge up?

People in high positions do not necessarily have to be intelligent, because they do not come to such positions because of their expertise or intelligence, but because of that they are eligible according to certain criteria. There are a lot of people who can be called "useful fools" because they serve a purpose and nothing more.

An intelligent person can understand something that is very easy to understand and factually provable to anyone with a bit of common sense. The question is, does he even have the intelligence you are talking about or is he just one of those "useful fools" who says a lot without even being aware of what exactly he said.

Placing personal biases aside, I believe it takes a very intelligent individual to become a CEO of a medium-sized financial institution at the age of 30, help save it from failure, and through a series of mergers and acquisitions, turn it into the largest financial institutions during that time called Citi Group.

Plus he did it again under his leadership in J.P. Morgan. That's why it's very laughable that this person, who obviously has above-average intelligence, could be very misinformed and stupid.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

jamie dimon, warren buffett, peter schiff, name the bitcoin haters you want, they all hate bitcoin and the people who support it, but do they hate bitcoin because of its features? no. they hate bitcoin because bitcoin can disrupt their business which will make them lose money. they are afraid that if bitcoin becomes more popular and adopted by more people globally it will disrupt their banking business which is something they don't want.

so these capitalists and opportunists will forever continue to hate bitcoin even as its adoption increases. they will consistently spread rumors and negative recommendations about bitcoin to tarnish its image in the eyes of the public, so that people are reluctant to choose bitcoin and prefer their banking products.

and it is our duty as a bitcoin community to be able to spread the good news about bitcoin to more people. so that way adopters of bitcoin will increase and that will prevent bitcoin from falling as predicted by the bitcoin haters.

Jamie Dimon's bad comments on bitcoin is just one, out of the hundreds of millions out there, Jamie's comments seems to be the most talked about simply because he is an influential figure, and someone many actually look(ed) up to for guidance in terms of where and where not to invest in, and also what and what not to invest in.

I am particularly happy that the US security and exchange commission have approved the much awaited and anticipated bitcoin ETF, this will act as an automatic "STFU" to naysayers,  and a proof to those who have doubted the legitimacy of bitcoin for several years now.

I can't wait for the next bull run to set in, we could be seeing bitcoin reach a new all time high never imagined by anyone.

If he is really as intelligent as you think he is, for what reason has he been making statements about Bitcoin for years that are not exclusively negative, as is the case with Buffett, but more like the statements made by a man who can't even understand what Bitcoin is and what is the purpose of existence the same?

From my perspective, he doesn't look like an intelligent person, but I leave it to everyone to think what they want about such people. I have never admired or envied them for what they do in life, and I always wonder about people who are involved in Bitcoin, and at the same time they care what people like Dimon think - Satoshi invented Bitcoin precisely to be an alternative to banks and to the people who manage them.

The proof that BTC is a legitimate network is that it is open source and public for anybody to verify. It is also worth mentioning that the BTC network has been running since it was created till date, with growing demand and developments, when some people predicted that it was a bubble that would only last for a short time.

BTC 'proof of legitimacy' is in its various working use cases or utilities and not because the sec approved BTC etf's in the U.S. market, the network does not need approval from centralized institutions in order to be regarded as legitimate.

That's the irony, and if you try to get the context of my posts, I'm definitely more confused than you. "How could a man so intelligent be so misinformed about Bitcoin"?

Plus about the ETF's approval, I believe it's not about whether the banksters think it's a, OP's word, "fraud" or not. It's probably because they need to. Because Bitcoin is a threat that they can never terminate, what will they do? They will attempt to control it and keep it under their custody.

Did he really? As far as I know the government had to bail the banks out because if they hadn't the banking system and their own economy would have fallen apart. Maybe he is really smart to run such an elaborate scam and get away with it ;)

Government knew clearly that if JP. Morgan bank collapses, it will trigger a massive domino effects not only restricted locally in the USA. but also spread quickly to other countries. The domino effects from JP. Morgan bankruptcy would be globally, not nation-wide.

They did made actions to seriously to support JP. Morgan and other big banks with ultimate goal is saving their own economy and government. No President want to join a year of President Election with a terrible economy in their nation. We are witnessing again in 2023 and 2024 as the current USA. government are trying to create pressure on FED. to reduce pressure on their economy.

You may be right, but lt's still a fact that, under his leadership, Jamie Dimon helped two financial institutions become the largest banking and investment operation in legacy finance. THE actual point is he's not a stupid person with below-average intelligence, and that might be not debatable. I'm also merely being fair, and we should always be giving people the benefit of the doubt. Bitcoin Cash SV flat-earthers are probably the exception.

But does Jamie Dimon hate Bitcoin? YES because the "idea of Bitcoin" is a threat to legacy finance. Is he stupid in anything about Bitcoin? YES, this man is absolutely misinformed.

Fair enough.
Regarding this part about such people "hating bitcoin", I'm not so sure. It is a possibility but it may also be that they just see Bitcoin as another tool to fill their pockets. Right now it benefits them to spread FUD about it and it could change in the future.

Remember Musk? He did this in reverse. It benefited him to praise Bitcoin while it was going on and he had a stake in it and was making profit but when the profit stopped and he wanted to exit, he started spreading FUD. Then he did the same with a shitcoin called Dogecoin and made some money there too.

I'm almost certain that if JPM were allowed to open bitcoin accounts (like they do bank accounts) for customers and they saw a profit there, Dimon will start praising Bitcoin. After all it is all about making money for this type of people.

It's easy for people like Dimon to be "intelligent" when the state is behind you and fixing all your mistakes with unlimited money. In a way, it's a perfect job, because no matter how badly you do something, there are always those who will fix it, and you'll also get a promotion.

These days I am reading about the fact that it is being investigated how much Tesla actually cheated on the displayed data on the energy consumption of its vehicles and how much it received incentives from the state based on that data. It's billions of dollars paid by taxpayers for some self-righteous hypocrite to brag about making the world a better place - while at the same time children and their parents work in cobalt mines in Africa for $2 a day for his "green" batteries.

But why FUD it? At the very minimum start a reasonable debate, not a stupid, misinformed statement saying that SATASHI will come back and either increase or erase the supply.


Tesla still holds 9720 Bitcoin, https://bitcointreasuries.net/

I believe Elon Musk's "FUD" was done because he owns an electric car company with a vision to use clean sustainable energy. He was probably trying to save the company from a public relations issue.

Recent months, Elon Musk was quite silent when he was asked severap times about his opinion on Bitcoin and cryptocurrency market. It is different than his attitude in the past and maybe it is because he is planning to do something with X as a super app includes digital payment.

Weeks ago he told that SpaceX still has big number of bitcoin but that company is not regulated to publicly report on their investment in Bitcoin, different than Tesla.

He definitely needs to be silent about Bitcoin because he holds the the third largest wallet among business institutions that's not offering an ETF. Greta might reprimand him for investing in something that's "destryoing the environment". ::)


That's probably where he's hiding the wallet with the larger amount of Bitcoin?

I don't think intelligence enters the equation on this one.  It's his morality I'd call into question.  I suspect any misinformation he spreads is deliberate.  He knows there won't be any consequences, because Bitcoin is not a company and there's no one to file libel or defamation cases against him.  He can effectively say what he likes without fear of penalty and he knows there are people out there who will believe him.

He's definitely not stupid, he's just a crook.  And one of the most prolific crooks of the modern age at that.

But as an intelliegent human being, he can't merely be stupid about it. He could use the Ponzi argument, the "it's destroying the environment" argument, or the "too volatile to be a currency" argument, BUT saying that "SATASHI" will return and print more coins or erase them all? That human being, ser, is absolutely misinformed. Doesn't he have an assistant doing all the research for him?

He should probably hire Roger Ver as his top advisor for Bitcoin FUD.

It's probably true because, at least in my case, I got to know who Jamie Dimon is when, years ago, he started criticizing bitcoin almost on a weekly basis, before that, I had no idea who he was because I have no interest at all in the people running a bank, no matter how big it is. Of course I don't like the guy at all, but know, whether I like it or not, I know how he is, so yes, you surely got a point there.

Supporting evidence can be provided to disprove some of those other claims, though.  That's why he went with something else.  He may have realised it's decidedly more difficult to disprove the potential return of a mysterious creator (I mean, there are entire religions founded on that belief, so clearly some people will easily buy into such a notion without much convincing).  And the uneducated masses don't understand that satoshi wouldn't have any direct control over the protocol in the unlikely event they were to return.  We know that, but it's not something you can easily provide evidence of to the general populace who may not understand much about software development or consensus mechanisms.

There's an almost devious logic in creating FUD in areas that can't be proven one way or the other.  Again, I think Dimon knows exactly what he's doing.  It sounds downright stupid to us, but all too plausible to outsiders.