Bitcoin Forum

Lately, a group of basement criminals has been attacking the very essence of cryptocurrencies - its decentralized nature. They claim they have enough wisdom to decide which crypto is good and which one is bad, and they believe that its right for them to impose their decisions upon the crypto-communities. That's pure fascism.

I came to cryptos because I wanted to use my reason and logic to control my own economy. In a place that is safe from the draconian laws of the states. These persons are threatening the noble notion of free market in favour of an unjust law enforcement the like of which we wanted to avoid in the first place. They are a threat to our economic freedom.

Their plan: Use their hashpowers to do 51% attacks on any coin that they subjectively consider scammy. At first it was only that, and it was already bad, but it quickly degenerated in "Use their hashpowers to do 51% attacks on any coin that have not paid their racketting fees"

Our plan: Use this thread to let coin developpers shares the facts about Operation Shitcoin Cleanup intimidating them. Then, when a coin is judged in danger of a 51% attack, all those partisan to our cause shall redirects their hashpower to protect the coin.

It's a fact that a lot of coins are pure scam, and I can understand why some would support fascist Operation Shitcoin Cleanup, but they are wrong. Let free market decide what is good and what is bad, that's the only just, objective and rational way this market can survive. So we will do all that is possible to compensate the negative effects they create. We shall not let Muddafudda and BitcoinExpress decide what is best for us, nor anyone else but ourselves. And please, keep in mind that if they'd have been around some months ago, they'd have severely hindered the development of legit altcoins (Doge, Franko, Vertcoin...) who are now quite valuable in some communities.



The best way to help is being active in this thread and fighting Operation Shitcoin Cleanup in any way you can.

PS. Apologies if english mistakes were made, as it is not my primary language.

If you remove the begging address and the "let free market decide" rhetoric, maybe you will be taken seriously. Free market leads to IPO's and all sorts of scams that are robbing people and killing the alt scene.  Even if it's offtopic, let me just say that "free market" in the real world leads to GMOs, fracking, speculating on food and others.

You make some valid points, though. Some middle ground must be found.

What's wrong with asserting that the free market is more logical than a market controlled by a centralised organisation?
And I am in no way begging for donation.
But thanks for seeing the validity of my points.

Oh come on.

The word shitcoin sort of diminishes the credibility of this noble endeavor...  ;D

lol naive ;D

viva la open WORLD
viva la DIVERSITY

i dont feel my coins like shitcoins!!!!

^that
You got me until I saw that free market bullshit (not like I disagree, but there are so many people overusing that kind of terms) and BTC adress. Then I basically moved this post into my mental trash bin. Also, I haven't noticed any actual idea for fighting with this swamp of coins here, too (except scammy-looking BTC begging).

The idea for fighting against them? Build a community of miners who disagree with their practice, and protect the coins that are at risk of 51% attack by offsetting Operation Shitcoin Cleanup mining power. Intel shall be gathered by encouraging developpers who have been intimidated to post in this thread, and by staying up-to-date on OSC's thread.

Another goal, is to convince their followers that OSC's ways are immoral and damage the cryptocurrencies communities.

I use the enemy's definition of it ;)
But you're right, that might be a bad choice. Will change the thread's title right now.

Just pick the coin or coins to mine and mine them.

But take care not to waste your hash power on coins you do not have enough hash power to actually secure/defend.

Thus either design a specialised chip that will hash in a way that a few thousands or tens of thousands of people with a few hundreds or thousands of GPUs or CPUs or FPGAs each will not be able to out-hash your specialised chip or direct all your hashing to whichever coin has the most hash power and stick with it instead of changing your mind based on bribes.

That is, if some other coin tries to bribe you into abandoning your coin to go mine some other coin, by making it "more profitable" on some website or calculation, stick to your coin, because if you let yourself get bribed away from defending your coin you might as well never go back, since if you won't defend it don't bother expecting anyone else to defend it.

All you GPU and CPU miners are basically screwing yourselves by making all the GPU and CPU coins more and more worthless by constantly abandoning them.

As more and more potential investors realise that more and more GPU and CPU miners are committed to abandoning coins and coming up with more and more scams to abandon them for, the whole field of CPU and GPU coins will become worth less and less and less.

Every time you switch coin, you make it yet more obvious that both the coin you switched from and the coin you switched to are useless garbage, bait-and-switch scams, you bait people into one by mining it, then switch to another, and just keep doing that bait-and-switch over and over and over, even developing specialised pools that exist solely for the purpose of facilitating that whole bait-and-switch scam cycle.

-MarkM-

BCX and the rest of the bitcoin fascists are wasting their time. For every coin they attack 5 more are springing up in their place, and they have demonstrated abject stupidity so far in terms of developing a strategy to fight them. They can do a little damage here and there, but ultimately they are about a relevant as DDOS attacks.

The profusion of altcoins is out of hand, but the free market will sort it all out. No one is forcing you to mine or buy a coin you don't like. To listen to the bitcoin fascists, the New York Stock Exchange should consist of 1 stock with 90% of the market cap, and a mere handful of other stocks that are firmly kept in their place.

Even if they have not been committing extortion, the damage they are doing to coin values (and thus having a real-world financial impact that is hurting people) makes them criminals in my book, and I wouldn't mind seeing them arrested in real life. Or if anyone can expose their identity, other forms of pressure might reasonably be applied.

The most idiotic thing is they presumably think they are protecting bitcoin. All they are doing is turning people away from all cryptocurrency, their own included. If they succeed they'll wind up holding all the bitcoins, with no value, wondering what happened.

The problem here, is that Operation Shitcoin Cleanup is targeting new coins who did not have the time to gather enough interest from miners to be secure, but who might in the future. Imagine if they had attacked Dogecoin at its beginning, when there was only a handful of miners. It might never have recovered and become the sucessful crypto it is now.

What I propose as a solution, is to defend the new coins unjustly attacked, until BitcoinExpress and other thugs abandon. Then we'll move to another coin. If the once protected coin fail to gather enough interest from independant miners, we won't protect it again and it will be left to die by the law of the free market, in a fair way.

Well... technically crypto universe is a free market and they are free to do as they please with their rigs. You cannot use the 51% attack as any sort of "fairness" judgement. The reason they could do 51% is not because of the otherworldly hashpower they posses. Its because the shitcoin was not convincing enough for a miner to switch his current coin to yours. It brought nothing to the table and there was no inventive to mine the shit.


The fuck does that even mean? What is a "my economy"?




Why "protect"? Isn't it in the nature of free market to eradicate the useless unproductive ones? Don't you think you are being a bit hypocritical by playing the role of a "government" by subsidizing value to these shitcoins (like welfare for the shitcoin devs), thereby multiplying them? Its a well documented fact.... that which you subsidize, multiplies.

You are looking to cure the symptom, while they are trying to cure the disease.



LOL.... I too need hash power. Send money money money to 18quigms214LHmEq8s2XuCSAWHKRbhq8n2 as well.... you know... for the good fight  ::)

That's were we come in. To make their criminal activities attempt unsuccessful, until they give up.

Protect mister PENG please!!!

They attack new coins which have not gathered enough interest from miners, but who might in the future. I understand it might seem counter-intuitive to say we fight for protecting the free market, but the goal here is only to counterbalance their negative effect. If a coin fail to gather sufficient interest from miners after we protected it, then it's alright for it to dissapear.




I meant being able to control my money, and being able to put it in places that are not regulated in any way, especially not by crypto-thugs.





I believe the beginning of this post answers this

Why? Reasons and proofs must be used when deciding which coin is being racketted.

Thank god Scrypt asics are coming out I can't wait to see all these shitty copy paste coins get 51% and die.

Why would you want that? Because they make people put less money in Litecoin?

Edited out the donation adress from the OP, since it lowered credibility in this project.

Well.... that's where the logic fails. You see, unlike tangible stuff like food, movies, that provide satisfactions, that in turn leads to recommendations, which needs time to play out, Crypto Mining on the other hand is not a "fun" activity as such. The only fun part is in speculation and earning a profit by selling it to people who think they can sell it to other for higher. So obviously the people who get in early will be able to sell it to people who want to sell it higher, etc. Imagine a hundred of these, and the search for the greater fool is taken on to new heights, and the value of the original cryptos gets diluted, because the BTC is all pulled out these long holding coins and sold got the quickest deal they can get, to catch the shitcoin train going up.

I really have no clue why someone would want to mine a shitcoin in the future if they did not in the present. Unless there is something inherently unique in the coin, the value will only go downhill. It has to serve a purpose... be a means to an end sorts. If its just a clone with a new logo and name, and you expect it to rise in value without affecting the original coin, there must be something wrong with your understanding of economics.

Please protect solarcoin and digitcoin

You would be right if altcoin's only value was speculation. But for me and probably many others, its attractive to have other options to use as store of value rather than Bitcoin and Litecoin. Each coin has a potential to attract a community, and its not the role of some dudes with a lot of mining power to decide which of them have no potential.

DOGE is not a successful cryptocurrency, it is a still-dying scam.

The value it did bring though was that it showed how pathetically vulnerable litecoin was, and thus how vulnerable any coin is that lacks specialised hardware to secure it thus can be out-hashed by commodity hardware thus can be trashed by whatever stupid meme happens along enticing people to use their commodity hardware for hashing.

It might not only be a garbage failure itself but also have proven that litecoin is too.

We will see though when scrypt ASICs become the vast majority of scrypt hashing power.

Will litecoin plus its merged mined friends prevail or will DOGE and its merged mined friends prevail, or will litecoin and DOGE adapt to be merged mined together so that they both, along with their friends, can all be secured by all that scrypt hashing power?

Or will they continue to fragment the scrypt space, continuing to make both of them constantly in danger of having less than half of the world's scrypt hashing power?

-MarkM-

Doge is dying? Last week it amassed enough money to sponsor a Doge car for a Nascar driver. Since this morning, they gave a million Doge to fund a free sci-fi show on youtube. It's the most alive crypto right now, not far beyond Bitcoin.

I don't understand your point, about how scrypt Asics are going to kill Dogecoin and Litecoin. The asics are equally available to everyone, so no more chance of 51% attacks than there are now. Plus, Bitcoin survived this quite well.

I think it is best to ignore Operation Shitcoin cleanup. They won't accomplish anything.
It is just a bunch of failed developers trying to kill off competition. And they've attracted the people scared by the recent plummet of bitcoin and wanting to blame something like shitcoins and also control freaks and those who need authority and rules to follow.

Shitcoins are not killing the altcoin market. The market will sort itself out.
New exchanges are popping up like daffodils in the spring and more people are trading everyday. Money continues to pour in.
There is no problem.

What.... like 350 of them? The "options" has gone out of control with the copy paste shitcoins with no new developments. Imagine this.... a cloning machine makes 100 Brad Pitts flock into Hollywood, each with a different hair do and costume, but Brad Pitts none the less. Do you think the "value" of the original Brad Pitt goes down or not? It does.... and I wouldn't necessarily call them "options"... they are copies with different looks, thats all. On the other hand if there comes a Denzel Washington, Will Smith, Leo decaff and J Depp into the scene, then you have real value there. Each actor will be giving it their best and bringing their own uniqueness to the movies they compete and fight for, and as an audience you are "investing" in these actors to do better by paying to watch their movies. Now those are options.

So what Im trying to say is that we need options to strengthen the system.... of course, but clones disguised as options.... I don't think so. They drive the entire market down, reduce quality, stifles innovation and just plain makes it inconvenient for investors. How many crazy trigger happy flappy coins and rabbit coins and rainbow coins does it take to bring down this boat we're all in? These guys who are against shitcoins, I applaud them for taking an initiative to do whatever is in their power in getting rid of these parasites!

I agree with you that most coins offer nothing new, and a lot are nothing more than scams. But the point of my post, is that the solution to this problem is not using draconian scare tactics and intimidation. The only objective judge of this is the free market, so the thugs who want to do 51% attacks should not be allowed to, since it is in violation of the decentralised nature of cryptos. And of course since it is decentralised, there is no police to make them stop, so its up to the community who disagree with their practice to nullify their attacks.

But like lamontweaver said, maybe I give them too much importance and they don't have as much power as they claim :)

I think this is correct.  It's a lot of chest thumping with little effect on the overall situation.. the invisible hand of free market will resolve things in the end.  

That said, I'll still lend my help to operation protection, from a developers perspective.. because quite frankly it's just fun working against people who look for security vulnerabilities.  As the whole exercise actually is a way to strengthen the technology, overall.  For every attack, there will be a counter..  some people like breaking things.. others like fixing things  I will lend my skills to help with that. :)

Great, thanks for your help! :D
No coin seem to be in danger right now, but we'll have to be ready.

Start adding to all the coins the ability to be child chains in merged mining.

That way all miners can chose for themselves which coins to support and which one of them to pick as primary chain in the merge, and as many chains as can effectively be merged can all be equally secure, plus we will get to find out what the limit actually is of the number of chains that can effectively be merged.

So far there are only eight working merged mined coins one can merge at once, and that works fine, but it has been only eight a long long time so we still do not know how many more we can effectively merge because we lack coins to add to our merges.

-MarkM-

Well said, Micryon.

invisible hand of market is myth and dogma produced by corporates economs to prevent system to create regulations wich can help small business and reduce power of corporates

so don't expect anything from that hand

a 51 attack will be soon solved by bijective function

There are valid reasons why costumers favour big businesses over small ones (lower prices, reliability), and other valid reasons why some customer prefer to deal with small business (contributing to the local economy). There's no problem with big corporation having more power if they do indeed provide more value, and that's something that the free market is well adapted in judging that.
There's no need for regulations.

corporates do not provide higher value, there is allways same scheme, lower price is tool to take out competitors,
corporates do not care about customers satisfaction, they do not supply needs, they do money mining and everything is set up to this rule
when control of market reach significant number, price is going up back and reliability fall, despite of wages are going down and unemployment rise
do some research

Are you kidding me? People prefer Wallmart/Meijers etc because they provide better value and choices for their money at the convenience of not driving around for different products or brands. Its more effecient and cheaper.


Ya, because the customers have no choice and are forced to use the "corporate" products, even when they are not happy with them. That makes complete sense. Can you name one single product that people hate and still buy please?


What do you mean they do not supply needs? Why on earth would someone go to a shop and pay for something he doesnt need? Where on earth is your sense of accountability? If I went and bought something I don't need, why is the "corporate" manufacturer to blame for my irrationality and not me?   


Ya so? You want them to make shit for free? Profit is the single most powerful factor in getting a product manufactured in the most economical way possible.


Like seriously man.... what is this? It looks like you are regurgitating some brainwash someone vaguely told you about "corporates" being evil vampires and the cause of all of the country's misery! Unemployment is what happens when you artificially regulate someone's worth to a company... aka Government forcing companies to pay a minimum wage and not rely on the market to decide.


LOL.... uh huh!

look kid, you have rethoric on basic school level, you are making conclusions from presumptions. Your presuptions are wishes. You cant point difference between impulses, reactions and consequences. I cant spend time to explain absolute basics of relationship. Really do some research. There are tons of tons of informations out there on internet why corporate is cancer. Just educate yourself. Anyway I appreciate your efford, go jump in to internet and with same effort find some information, before you try to convice somebody who is maybe twice older than you and who has experiences wich is even not became part of your dreams. Go and talk to people, ask them, go outside of your life based on traveling between shopping centers, you will find out that real life is far different than your beloved corporate world.

"look kid, you have rethoric on basic school level, you are making conclusions from presumptions."

Isn't that making a presumption and conclusion about someone that you have never met?  Talk crypto or eat shit and die.

Let me guess.... brought up in a abusive my-way-or-the-highway household... neglet and abandonment issues.... trouble with conflict resolutions.... big fan of welfare and the Govt. Seriously.... what are you doing here? This is the dangerous Free Market zone old man. Here if you are a piece of shit who thinks respect comes with age, and not achievement, then you get called on it. You can take your blue collar attitude with a southern accent and walk out the way you came in. This is that bright part of the woods where 14 year olds with intelligence are respected without them demanding it.

All I can see in your response is your ego filtering out the "who" instead of the "what". LOL.... you probably even might consider it as "defiant" and 'em kids got nooo 'espect these days ;D

Hey El Dude , because of your stupidity ( and others ) im going to seek a petition and get as many of the first Batch of KnC titans to all mine and dump LTC at once.

If LTC is the promising currency its supposed to be it should be fine as all the new investment will take up the slack right ?

: D

Will that come from BTC ?

: D

@markm
that sounds pretty reasonable to me but i don't think he got what your saying in the slightest or he would have address the last part you said..
but as usual they sort of silently take a wide walk around any part that is proving what these guys do is bad.
i have brought up a half dozen points not one of these guys will EVER address directly they just get mad and start insulting you..

there is no free market and your decentralized propaganda is bs.. for example Cryptsy controls what coins to add so THEY can make money not you !
How is that decentralized ?
and we all know coin cloners have had their target set at getting on major exchanges from day one.. NOT getting world wide adoption for a new currency.
Their behavior proves this and so does these guys making excuses to hop from one scam coin to another for flash mining purposes.
you think that behavior will keep your coin secure ? Do you really think anyone here will for one second buy that's your honest motivation ?
This whacko has spewed a bunch of bs to defend his right to flash mine any scam coin that comes along.. no matter how bad or from whom.
Using all these excuses for it is cowardly.. grow some balls and admit to what you REALLY want.. to flash mine and pump and dump coins and leave them for dead..

oh and that "Facist" as i pointed out already is why Bitcoin Scrypt the coin was re-added back to this forum.. he got it un-banned
does that sound like a fascist to you ? Sounds more like the guy is fighting for freedom to me.

When you fight for the right to commit any immoral act or crime that you want in the name of freedom no matter how bad with no limits
then i have no choice but to compare you to pedophiles who think they have the right to diddle little children.

Rules already exist so don't pretend people are trying to add them now for the first time.
Second of all society couldn't in way function in the slightest with out rules in all areas of life.
You guys need to stop saying you want no rules so you can abuse the situation for your financial gain and at the loss of others.
How about showing some class & decency and respect for other people and showing that you care about vulnerable new users that come here ?
rather than just your bitcoin address..

Fallacy much? You sound less intelligent with every post (this is not a fallacy because I am not on one side or the other of a debate, but I am merely stating my opinion).

Also, read this and take notes: http://www.grammarbook.com/english_rules.asp.

Hey El Dude , because of your stupidity ( and others ) im going to seek a petition and get as many of the first Batch of KnC titans to all mine and dump LTC at once.

If LTC is the promising currency its supposed to be it should be fine as all the new investment will take up the slack right ?

: D

Will that come from BTC ?

: D

I don't think it's a bad thing, if someone "destroys" a coin. Very direct way to force the involved to come up with something improved. What is your reasoning to protect vulnerable coins?

We are still in an very early stage and should learn from such incidents as much as we can.

Well then it is fortunate there are hundreds of scamcoins to test attacks on, eh. :)

-MarkM-

no your trolling.. still

So how do u protect ur coins

By world scale massively expensive hashing, e.g. bitcoin, namecoin, devcoin etc; or by some non proof of work based system if any of them turn out to actually work. Like maybe NXT style or eMunie style or Ripple style or something, whichever turns out to actually work. Maybe even proof of stake if anyone ever actually implements any of the proof of stake systems that supposedly theoretically might be able to work and it turns out that they actually do work.

-MarkM-