Bitcoin Forum

FTX to refund customers at Bitcoin's prices below $18,000


https://cryptobriefing.com/ftx-refund-bitcoin-customers/

Is this has been discussed already?

What are your thoughts about this one? For sure those who lost money in the FTX collapse will have to find console in getting some from FTX itself. But I don't think this is fair to their customers if they will be calculated on Value of Bitcoin in November 2022, just saying.

It should be in full and should be based on the numbers of Bitcoin they have in this exchange, in my opinion.

For me they should be compensated according to the stress they got from the incident and FTX management done wrong so its really good to give something more to those depositor so that they will be happy with refund plan to be executed by them.

But if there's nothing will be change since government and FTX have good settlement plan to pay all of those people compromised on their platform then I guess they should accept it since its still better than nothing since they can't do anything with it but to wait for the total refund that planned to happen.

Hopefully depositors will get what they deserve since its not their fault on why this thing happen and all blame should be pointed to FTX management so they must pay for it.

Everyone who has been affected badly by this debacle deserve every single benefit that they are eligible to that will be set by FTX or the government that will monitor the refund process. So if the price of Bitcoin will be below $18k at the rate of this process, it's a good decision for the sake of the victims. People might say that the users eligible of it are winners, heck no. They've been the victims of this scam that FTX did.
And they have all the rights and deserve every penny that will be returned to them at any rate that the US government decides to.

This is still a developing story and I hope that all of the victims will find themselves the justice for the ruckus that this debacle has caused them. It's a lot of money to process for FTX but it's good to hear them that they'll halt their operation and choose to go with the refund process which is like restoring the faith in humanity. And this is the new management while the fraudsters Sam Bankman-Friend and his cohorts are on jail time.

Certainly, it does not sound fair to me either. I was expecting this exchange to hopefully resume its operations in the future so they could use the volume and the exchange fees as a source of income for them to repay those who got affected by the closure.
To me paying those affected with such a low rate does not make sense, and it should be calculated keeling in mind whatever assets the exchange has left to sell, using a better rate for the price of Bitcoin or resume operations.
Sadly, my theory is there is someone within the company who may try to keep the Bitcoin remaining from the calculation done on the payments below 18k$. Or (to fair) it could also be the whole company or what is left of it is not worth enough for people to get paid what they deserve or are rightfully owed by FTX.

This kind of news only makes people to stay even further away from exchanges and centralized custodial companies. Still a disaster for those clients...

I still don't think people are going to see that money anytime soon. I imagine that if they pay, it will be something for a few years to come, like MT GOX. Don't get your hopes up about receiving money from FTX, they will always find a way not to pay, going to court or making excuses.

Cryptobriefing is trying to get more views by raising controversy over the FTX issue, but we will not see the distribution of funds soon if we have not heard anything about what happened with Mt. Gox even though it's been about 10 years.

Bankruptcy and asset liquidation cases take years, and arranging those affected takes a long time, so it is best to assume that nothing will happen soon.

You are the only one who has seen it differently and rightly. The people involved should not just sit excitedly waiting for FTX to pay. They will continue to make excuses upon excuses and it the end they might pay but it will be overly delayed. It will be fine if the victims don't expect anything from FTX, rather than expecting and in the end get disappointed or heart broken for the second time.

The bitcoin in our private wallet is the real bitcoin. Exchanges might not be holding all your funds in bitcoin but they will display it to your understanding that you own Bitcoin. When issues like this happen it will be revealed. Assuming bitcoin price is somewhere below $10k, they would want to pay with the current price. They just want heads off, I don't blame them though.

I think everything that happened to FTX was their management's fault.  Of course this is not fair to their customers.  They should be given compensation for their customer assets to be returned. I think this will cause chaos because many people will feel at a loss. I think they have to compromise and find a better alternative so that no one is harmed.  I think this should be done immediately and prove that they are serious about it.  The longer this goes on, the more their customers will be out of control. Especially if  the process of investigation is so complicated, this will of course produce new tensions. I hope this will end with good conditions and all part will win.

It's a legal way to exit without putting much burden on the bankrupt company or corporation. You can put the blame of this "unfairness" on the legislators who sponsored the bankruptcy law. 

It is what it is.

The case would be different if this was a simple dispute over customer fund seizure.

Just like MT GOX but much better.
It's hard to deal with CEX especially those who got hacked and bankrupt.
Ofcourse their fund will be limited to pay it's costumer. I think it's better get some than nothing

This was discussed a long time ago and the thread is still active today. [Updated] FTX (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5419710.0)

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If FTX wants to refund its customers then when will it do so? I see since last year they have said they will refund customers even asking for a complicated KYC process but until now there is still no news.
This will be like the Mt.gox case that waited for years but kept getting delayed. Lol

I am unfamiliar with, bankruptcy code that article is referring to, but seems really weird that they picked the lowest point for it, or that they are changing btc to monetary equivalent value in the first place. Weren't mt gox victims getting their btc back in btc? Also at the start of the November 2022 ftt was still priced at $26.11, are people getting their ftt value back from some date, because few days after bitcoin dumped and ftt crashed with it. And what about people who fomoed in all the ftt the cex when it was dirt cheap? What do they get?

Getting anything is better than nothing. FTX is in the state of liquidation and it's asset won't cover for everyones deposit. I know people would be losing money but they are not totally scammed from their funds. And at the time of bankruptcy the price of bitcoin was lesser that at current time.
There are reasons for people to doubt about CEX. The reason why FTX failed was the lack of transparency on how the exchange is using users money. Ideally, a centralized exchange should only levy exchange fees and match orders but some exchange do invest or provide liquidity without the consent for users. That's why it's important for authorities to look for any shady practice from centralized exchange.

Thats should be the case but with the case of ftx being bankrupt probably they are trying to pay with all their might and making some excuses to lower down their debt. Indeed this is one of the hell of an event in crypto. I still remember ftx is so good and its one of the top projects and suddenly everything failed in a split of seconds due to bear season and some incidence on luna related case.

it's like they doubling down their scam for refunding at such a low price.
but i wouldn't be complaining anymore if i was among those users who were scammed. the money will still be useful to them but FTX resuming its operation is probably not going to work anymore. they have caused the most stressful years of the victim's life and they are going to try scamming once again.

they are not even seeing a real verdict to the case. could this be part of the plea?

About FTX yes but with this update, I don't see anyone mentioning that on the thread for FTX[1]. Or there was in the last few pages but I don't see it.

[1] [Updated] FTX (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5419710.0)

Good, as long as there is progress on this case and we're seeing it moving then it's a big help to the ones that have been disturbed and traumatized by their doings.

I think they're just laughing at the investors who kept their money on the stock exchange. $18,000 for bitcoin, when now it costs 43,000, it's just terrible. Perhaps by such actions they are just trying to mitigate the situation for themselves.

This just reminds me of the chaos it had created and the agony the investors had to go through and yes they needs to be compensated for the ordeal they had been through but FTX decided to pay them at Bitcoin price of $18k without any interest for the delay. As I see people are asking for compensations but do we really know that we will get this money back? I don't think we will get this money anytime sooner and I would be glad even if they pay what they have mentioned at Bitcoin value of $18k as this will help distressed investors who had invested a lot into this project and I don't think it's time to think of compensation as it would be a huge sigh of relief even if they pay as they have mentioned.

Will FTX be FUD material in the future with the concept of returning large amounts of member assets. like MTGOX as usual walle stret wants to buy bitcoin cheaply by making FUD. Even though this FTX news is old and barely popular, it might be brought up again in the future, if the members' assets have not been returned. It looks like there will be a long wait to return members' assets, as long as Bitcoin is at a price of 18k, waiting

Nothing is impossible because if B.C game was crashed and came back again and cleared all the accusations level against them, so FTX can also do the same to clear their own and becomes a repented cryptocurrency company to do well in the space again. Everything is possible. And all what we want is genuine repentance and not hypocritic repentance. The customers who lost their money in the time of the FTX bankruptcy should not complain because if the money which they lost at that time will be paid to them in the time when bitcoin was at $18,000, well it is better than none.

So they should accept it and continue their investment. Though I believed the time when FTX collapsed, the price of bitcoin was about $20k and below which was the beginning of the bear market of 2022.

It's just drama - they don't really do it and I think mt.gox has had the same drama so far. No one knows for sure when FTX will compensate its customers - but if it does, they should have done so already. If customers are truly compensated – they should get what they deserve. It is unfair for customers to get a refund at price $18K or under - while the asset value has grown by more than 100% at this time.

But there's a saying: It's better to have a little than nothing. It's painful - but it's a middle ground that should perhaps be considered out of good faith. At least affected customers got refunds instead leaving empty-handed.

Can't say much now since the price growth from back then was pretty big, but if it was below, I'd definitely believe they'd be willing to compensate those affected at that price instead of the price when FTX declared bankruptcy. And it definitely isn't fair since there's far more damage done to be paid than the compensation imo. Said compensation is actually the absolute minimum they should've done, and heck maybe even a bit low with the price being limited at the time of bankruptcy.

Not to mention whatever distribution of said compensation would probably take a year, or maybe a few years.

it shows how they don't even have the effort to compensate people, when a customer lost their money in form of cryptocurrency they should be receiving in the same form, its just unfair that the exchange just want to reimburse only half of what they owed, such an underhanded method.
this will only further make people not believe in ftx even if they rebooted some how people just not gonna use the exchange ever again.
since it just means that the exchange itself in its reimbursement which caused by them in the first place, not sincere therefore its just better to get done with it and avoid ever again using ftx services.

I guess we should be grateful that they still want to refund customer funds although it's not fair enough, I saw some platforms collapse and none of their customers got a refund. Make it as our experience to store our cryptocurrency not in a third party but in our own wallet to avoid something like this happening again. Don't ever trust something that is related to the government again.

Repayment in full should be what is fair as those people lost their coins due to the incompetence of the people managing the FTX exchange, but we knew this was never going to happen and they will fabricate all kind of excuses to not do so.

And according to your source they have decided to use a very weak excuse, since this could allow them to pay all their customers a very low amount of bitcoin, keep the rest and earn a fortune during the upcoming bull run.

A restoration of hope for people that have their Bitcoin stuck in FXT, although they're not getting the current market worth of their assets, it's still better than getting nothing, I hope that they speed up the process of payment so that the people concerned can move on. This should be a lesson to those that still leave their coins in exchanges.

I think that the $18k is not fair compared to what Bitcoin price is today, so I'm wondering what if reverse is the case and let's say Bitcoin was $40k then, and now it's $18k, will they still go ahead with their payment plan? They probably won't quote wherever it's said that they're mandated to pay at the rate when they were hacked.

It should definitely be in full but at this point, I think customers will just feel some relief to at least get something back. What happened with FTX was a disgrace & yet another stain on cryptocurrency & stick for people to beat us with. As I said though, at least they will get something refunded, it’s not much but it’s better than nothing.

Yeah, better be something than nothing. But we can't blame them though, it's really a bad what SBF has done and he should suffer for that so that justice can be served. But if those who lost their investment here would have their own choice then they want it in full.

But we are not sure how the repayment will be done though. Not comparing them, but we have seen that the ghost of Mt. Gox still haunt us up to this day. Hopefully it will not be same for those FTX victims as it could drag in for years.

I have said that it is a drama and more related drama will happen untill the refund will happen. The refund will definitely happen even if not in full. I am just confident that it will happen because the crypto world is watching wide at the scenario and there's much more conspiracy happening.

^One1
^Two2
That has been the order. When there's a hack or mismanagement of funds. The victims will be delayed for some years to ensure that their hopes and enthusiasm is drained. Then they will come up with something very much lower for compensation. Statements like the above two will surface. It is better than nothing...while the next criminal is watching to repeat same process and still get away with it.

You are saying right brother. The FTX exchange team is not paying to their beloved users. When the FTX collapse the price of bitcoin is moving below $20,000. Peoples lost their millions of fund, but now the price of bitcoin is double from the previous price. So, the team have to pay 2 time to their users. That's why they are not paying to their users. But its not fair.

I truly feel bad for FTX’s customers turned victims they were deceived and basically lied to I can not possibly imagine what they had to go through or what they felt during that moment when the news first broke out

While I do understand the sentiment or the logic behind using bitcoin’s previous price, i still believe that their customers are entitled to more than that they have put their trust and faith into them if FTX were still functioning today then their customers would still probably be holding bitcoin in their platform

It might a bit unfair however this is still better than nothing at all it might not be enough compensation but at least there is something to hold on to

this is likely what will happen to FTX victims. they will just keep hoping the coins will be refunded until 100 years later, the owners will have no chance of being able to verify their IDs.

i think the mt.gox victims were hoping for years and almost every cycle, they were promised to send to them.  FTX will not be very different from mt.gox, they have it figured after all the victims can do nothing if they won't return the funds.  no offense.

It’s a case of bankruptcy and I think it’s better they pay something than nothing, if they look at the funds they have in their possession and going with BTC price below $18,000 is going to help them pay back all those debts then so be it, at least those who have lost their money will have something to go home with it’s better than nothing. The crash alone if they are to be charge base on the emotional damage and live which could have been lost base on the incident they might never be able to pay back all those debts.

I would say that FTX returning funds to clients at a Bitcoin price of $18,000 is unfair, especially considering the current changes in cryptocurrency prices. And what about people who opened positions on futures? My friend has his entire deposit on this exchange in futures positions... Well, although it's good news anyway, let them return at least something somehow.

B.C. game the gambling platform? I'm sorry mate but they are not even comparable, FTX has lost the confidence, they have a ongoing court case and everything was revealed on how SBF ran his company from the background to even used his customers money for his own. So not sure if you really knows what's the real story and then comparing it to some gambling platform is beyond my comprehension.

But I do agree like the majority here, it could be worst for their customers if they didn't get anything.

So might be better to settle for a price that is below when they collapse. It might be unfair, but for legal purposes specially in the US, they might think that this is good for both parties, in my opinion.

Events like what happened to them are tragic, so I won't say one is better than the other but if you mean about the refunds, Mt.Gox have already attempted it before. I'm not only sure if it already processed successfully. As for the FTX, I won't feel positive yet until they truly made their promise a reality.

Hacking seems not brutal as bankruptcy. I already saw lots of exchanges who got hacked and still continue their operations later on but not those who got bankrupt because they don't have any funds left. FTX funds are limited right now but it's not an excuse to not make full payments. They can always prioritize those early investors and the rest can just wait for their turn until FTX had a money again.

I think a lot of drama will play by FTX exchange about issued will refund the costumer assets at bitcoin price below $18k, exchange have been collapse and scam impossible they will refund and waste your time hoping your money get back. I remember with MtGox have been rumored more than last several years for refunding costumer fund but until right now its not come true although they had much profitable when first time exchange got hack bitcoin have lower price.
There are not any trusted scammer want to refund for costumer, just bad promising to make you can't justice bad for them awhile although they don't have decision refund to costumer and we don't know where are their fund right now.

I thought this FTX drama would be over already, but there is still some news to it.
From the perspective of the one who lost their money because of this shitty exchange, I guess that would be better than just losing all of it. I mean when the incident happened, the price of Bitcoin was at that price wasn't it?

It would be a relief for those who lost their money, but the million-dollar question is, "Will they do it?" or they will just be like Mt. Gox who are teasing the investors who lost their Bitcoins back then? Well, if they will really do it then good especially now that they're trying to resume the operation. That move from them can be a start to rebuilding the reputation of the exchange itself. Nevertheless, it's a good move by FTX "IF" they will do it.

sounds like they just want to return 1/3 of the funds that they hold and call it a day and expect people to not complain about it, its ridiculous though such a bad gesture coming from ftx we know that they always try hard to use such tricks.
honestly their customers should just receive whatever asset in their wallet before the disaster, if its 1 bitcoin in their exchange wallet it should be 1 bitcoin getting returned, imagine having your money hold by certain exchange and then being returned only half of it, super ridiculous the people always become the victim in this case, the victim deserve better than this.
not to mention that current price of bitcoin has been rallying so much, if i were the customers i wouldn't just accept being reimbursed like that but i guess for some people it might be better than nothing.

I think if this is the case, you should replace it according to the estimated USD when the incident occurs, because if you replace coins, the value will be different, like when FTX crashed and someone had 2 BTC at 18k, now FTX has to replace 94K because currently the price of BTC is in numbers. 47k
So look at the customer's USD estimate and replace it with the same value too.

I think you are right, but it is possible that they are delaying like they have the funds but they use them to make a profit when they get it they give it away.
or they may not pay at all.
I think people in crypto already understand this risk.

Honestly, not that I believe this would happen but if it does, then yeah it's still fine. Many will complain about it no doubt considering bitcoin price is over 40k right now, but the reality is that the alternative is not getting anything and I think that is still the reality.

In a world where all FTX investors end up getting their money back, even if you consider bitcoin as 10k, you would still be getting something and we should remember that getting something is better than not getting anything. That may also have some good deeds on the bitcoin price as well, seeing a lot more people coming in and all that going into bitcoin, that may actually end up having some benefit for the price and help all of us make more money as well.

It will be unfair to distribute the value in terms of USD. Whoever had BTC in their account at that time will also get the refund in USD. That means FTX will make more than 2X return from their BTC holdings, and all this time they made profit from those bitcoins by keeping them in a lending protocol. This shows how important it is to keep your long-term portfolio in your non custodial wallet. It seems FTX drama won't end very soon as i have heard news that they are going to relaunch this year.

It's like they're doing everything to somehow get FTX out of this mess. If there hadn't been a halving soon after and the Bitcoin ETF hadn't been approved, I could almost think that Bitcoin's price increase was a result of some operational activity. Undoubtedly, this decision means an advantage for FTX and at the same time a disadvantage for FTX victims...

Yes, the only decision they would take is the one that favours FTX and their creditors. That is first and foremost. Every other things like retail customers are secondary. The truth is that even if the prices of Bitcoin was lower than $18K (price of Bitcoin at FTX collapse time), they will use the current price (which will be lower). Either way, the game is rigged against retail.

FTX did the same with solana holdings and I'm sure they will do the same with other assets too. Whether we believe it or not, FTX will try to reboot the exchange again.

They should received the amount they've lost plus damages, but it looks like the court will still in favor to this big company will not obliged to pay that much. Well, its good to know that they will stay pay all the victims and hope that the court will closely monitor this one and if ever, better not to allow this exchange to operate again because they've already lost the trust of the public and it can create another panic if ever, FTX is not a trustworthy exchange anymore.

Xai launched the distribution of their tokens https://xaidao.live

At first glance, if we pay close attention, it is indeed unfair in terms of total user losses if we convert them in fiat currency. It seems like the losses are much greater than the value of Bitcoin that they offered at the time of the collapse and this is far below the historical value of the figures set and on the other hand, the claim process. Also, the process of completion may also be hampered by a strict verification process.

Yep, even me, I got some funds inside of FTX Exchange but after the incident, I started to move on, move forward, because I know I can still earn that money, and to be honest, I am still hoping for some refunds, I just don't want to get stressed.
Even Bitcoin price below $18,000 is already good, as long the refund will be processed.

Yes this is unfair but it’s the way bankruptcy law works. It was the same with MtGox and all the other bankrupt crypto companies.

I guess if you held stablecoins then you don’t care but if you held any type of crypto, especially SOL then you obviously would be upset.

Anyone know when they will start to repay these customers? Pretty sure it won’t be anytime soon. Will take another year or two at least.

At this point anyone that had funds on that exchange should worry instead about the date in which those payments may come, since it was impossible from the beginning for the exchange to actually pay their customers in full, because if they could do it then they will not be bankrupt to begin with.

Still I would not be very positive about those payments coming soon, since those kind of trials in which everyone is trying to get a piece of a bankrupted company are always very messy.

So, US Bankruptcy proceedings are going to neglect the fact that the customers who had Bitcoin on November 22 could have way more than just $18k per BTC by now if they had their Bitcoins safe with them? If I'm a trader in any market, I have some products that are valued at $100 at the moment. Suddenly one day, the entity that's holding my assets for me faces some problems and my assets are gone, they come back after some time and tell me they are ready to refund me for my loss.

The same asset that they were holding for me is now worth $200 or more, but they tell me they are going to give me $100 per asset. Will that be fair? I don't think so, because if you didn't have problems and I had my assets safe, I would have more than double of my assets by now, and it was you who deprived me of that, at least compensate me for that.