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Title: BFL bringing down the trust rating? Post by: squall1066 on March 30, 2014, 07:54:26 AM I normally don't quote as many things are regurgitated here many times, But I have to do this one from BFL website.
Quote Win a Butterfly Labs Imperial Monarch! In an effort to demonstrate and consequently improve and repair the trust rating system on Bitcointalk, I am holding a contest that will provide concrete examples of how the trust system is broken on Bitcointalk. I have spoken with Theymos, the operator of Bitcointalk, about this and I have his full knowledge and permission to perform this experiment, with the prize being an Imperial Monarch to one lucky winner! Starting now and running until we start shipping the 28nm Monarch based products, anyone may enter into the contest by posting to the trust feedback system on Bitcointalk. Each entrant must make 6 separate trust entries. There will be 3 positive entries that must be made and 3 negative entries that must be made. You must make all 6 entries each day to be eligible for the drawing on the day we ship the products. On the day we officially start shipping, the contest entries will be closed. The next block to be found on or after midnight UTC of the following day will be the winning block. We will use Bitcoin Blockchain raffle ticket picker to decide the winning number. Entry numbers will be taken in order they are posted each day and numbering of each day after the first will continue where the previous day left off. The winning number will be chosen at random via the blockchain. Entrants may make one entry per day. Multiple entries per day will be ignored and only one valid entry will be allowed per day. Summary of the rules: 1. One entry per person, per day. 2. Entries will consist of 3 positive and 3 negative Trust entries on Bitcointalk.org to the accounts specified. (Listed below) 3. Entries will close the day we ship our first Monarch product to a paying customer. Entries will be accepted up to 23:59 UTC of that day. 4. The winner will be chosen at random via the next block on or after 00:00 (midnight) UTC the day after we begin shipping. 5. The winning list will be compiled through taking each set of 6 entries by a single individual per day and entering their name in the list, in order of posting as displayed by the Bitcointalk.org website. Each subsequent day after the first will start where the previous days list left off. 6. Trust entries must not be cut and pasted from previous days and must be unique each day. Entries must not be gibberish or otherwise unintelligible entries. (Sorry, but you will have to put some thought into it!) 7. DO NOT SPAM MULTIPLE ENTRIES! THERE IS ONLY ONE ENTRY ALLOWED PER DAY. Multiple entries per day are useless and likely to be removed. Anyone found spamming the system will be disqualified. 8. Only valid Bitcointalk accounts registered prior to the 28th of March, 2014 are allowed to enter. Accounts registered after this date are ineligible to participate. 9. Incorrect feedback type will disqualify an entry. (For example, leaving a negative feedback on one of the positive accounts or a positive feedback on a negative account will be disqualified.) 10. Shipping of the winning entry will be at the end of the current pre-order queue. Although I will try to slip in the shipment of the entry earlier than that if we have a gap in the queue based on anyone electing to take a refund, but I can not guarantee that at the moment, as I don't know if we'll have enough refunds to allow that without compromising paying customers shipping schedule. 11. If the operator(s) of Bitcointalk or other entities decide to discontinue this demonstration/experiment early or disallow the feedback for any reason, this contest becomes null and void. I will design a new contest to replace this one in just such an occurrence with the same prize available. Leave Positive feedback for these three accounts: Inaba: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=8198 BFL_Josh: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=63314 BFL: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=44366 Leave Negative feedback for these three accounts: Theymos: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=35 Dogie: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=87869 Bicknellski:https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=76550 Background information on the reasons behind this contest: Many people believe that the trust system on Bitcointalk is not only useless, but actually counter productive to a fair and balanced system for evaluating the viability of conducting trade on Bitcointalk. There are countless examples of the system being gamed, and false ratings being applied to individuals, unrelated to any sort of actual trust scenarios. Many scammers use this as a method to instill trust in their victims, allowing them to continue scamming with impunity. Other use the trust system as a way to air grievances, which is not a valid use of the system and also contributes to false rating levels for numerous individuals. The operators of Bitcointalk do not believe the system is broken and further more do not believe it can be gamed. With the small time gaming that has happened in the past, it is hard to differentiate legitimate feedback from illegitimate feedback. This contest, I believe, will conclusively prove that the system can easily be gamed in one direction or the other with minimal effort. Per the rules of the contest, there will be an equal number of positively gamed trust accounts as negatively gamed trust accounts, which will definitively prove that either direction is possible. I have spoken to Theymos at length over this issue and informed him that I will be conducting this demonstration, so he is aware of the impending demonstration and the likely results. It is possible that I am in fact incorrect about my understanding of how the system actually functions behind the scenes, but I do not believe this to be the case. Hopefully, upon the conclusion of this demonstration, Theymos will be convinced of the lack of viability of the system and replace it with a more viable system or remove it entirely. While this certainly won't solve all of the problems Bitcointalk faces, at least we can try little steps to try and rehabilitate Bitcointalk as a place people can have civil discourse and believe what they read there instead of being forced to ignore the vast majority of the site. Has theymos actually authorized this? Didn't he implement this "trust" system? and Dogie, Bicknellski How do these tie in? Surly they did not approve this? Title: Re: BFL bringing down the trust rating? Post by: Bicknellski on March 30, 2014, 08:22:04 AM LOL....
Hahaahaha. I relish the fact they are putting bounties on my head. Amazing eh? You can't have people just post REAL trust ratings you have to pay for them. Ethically challenged? What a joke. When will they get their rewards? March 2014? If anyone takes BFL up on that offer they are selling their reputation for hardware. At least they are admitting they need to PAY FOR positive ratings and discredit me and dogie for the same coin and goes directly to the fact that Inaba has been abusing the trust system since it's implementation and a good reason to BAN him and BFL from the forums entirely. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=8198 (Inaba) Code: Bicknellski 14: -0 / +16(16) 2014-03-30 0.00000000 Reference Buying Trust ratings. What is wrong with that? (Delete) Feel free to counter Inaba's attempt to trash the trust ratings by posting your own negative or positive feedback. He has already lied countless times in Trust ratings and people can verify that independently by just checking what he posts for negative feedback on the trust of various people. I suggest this is just another ploy to discredit the trust system and bring it down so that his negative ratings and BFL's negatives will disappear. Don't let him run from his past keep posting the TRUTH as you know it bitcointalk members. It looks like BFL is feeling the pain and is really working on their psyops full on now. Laughable. Any of this look familiar in BFL's and Inaba's playbook? Anyone know exactly what sort of work he did in the past for the Army? Hmmm... funny his tactics seem to be right out of the psyops right? https://firstlook.org/theintercept/document/2014/02/24/art-deception-training-new-generation-online-covert-operations/ Title: Re: BFL bringing down the trust rating? Post by: dogie on March 30, 2014, 01:10:10 PM Just for the record, I do NOT consent to this.
Title: Re: BFL bringing down the trust rating? Post by: BFLrCONmen on March 30, 2014, 02:58:45 PM Where's bcp19 to back the cockroaches up? Bet he thinks its all ok to ask people add positive feedback to his blatentantly horrific accounts while creating negitive for people who have not consented to this bullshit! This is so low ha ha
And thermalflask is just as big a con man than bfl! He doesn't give a shit as has been shown time and time again! This is just sick and twisted and shows they're going be in the mt gox hole before the year out! Abandon ships, the emporier as no clothes hahahaha Dirstt filthy cockroach josh, I told you he was! No one ever listens to sense, instead they feed trolls like bcp19 Title: Re: BFL bringing down the trust rating? Post by: DobZombie on March 30, 2014, 05:16:38 PM I'm so fucking disgusted in this behaviour.
These dickhead's behaviour will go down in history along with every other trolling or terrible behaviour. I mean, WHAT THE ACTUAL FUCK?! I hope theymos finally bans these people for their continued bribing and forum manipulation. What he got to say on this matter? On a side note, this seems to be backfiring lol Title: Re: BFL bringing down the trust rating? Post by: SaltySpitoon on March 30, 2014, 06:06:55 PM Heres the link to the BFL forum where they have the OP's quote posted.
https://forums.butterflylabs.com/announcements/8203-win-butterfly-labs-imperial-monarch.html Definitely earned a neg from me. Did they get permission from Theymos? Probably not exactly, they probably asked "can I do a promotion involving trust?" In which the answer would be sure, you are allowed to do whatever you want with the current trust system. However trying to buy trusts always backfires. Title: Re: BFL bringing down the trust rating? Post by: dogie on March 30, 2014, 06:27:32 PM Heres the link to the BFL forum where they have the OP's quote posted. https://forums.butterflylabs.com/announcements/8203-win-butterfly-labs-imperial-monarch.html Definately earned a neg from me. Did they get permission from Theymos? Probably not exactly, they probably asked "can I do a promotion involving trust?" In which the answer would be sure, you are allowed to do whatever you want with the current trust system. However trying to buy trusts always backfires. I've asked Theymos to comment when he's around. Some of Josh's comments as to why I should be bombarded with negative trust are amazing though (https://forums.butterflylabs.com/announcements/8203-win-butterfly-labs-imperial-monarch.html#post79137.): Quote Dogie and Bicknellski are trolls on Bitcointalk, I figured it would be appropriate to use troll accounts for that demonstration. I included Theymos as well to prove that I have talked with him about the demonstration and that I'm not trying to hide or scam anything (not sure what I'm trying to scam here, according to Dogie, anyway). The good thing is, I don't need Dogies permission to run a contest, last I checked! So don't worry about what Dogie says, his complaints are meaningless and the trust system will likely be removed/changed after we are done. The whole point is to show that the system can be gamed and twisted with minimal effort. Dogie begging you to remove the rating is part of whole thing... if he can convince, plead, pay, etc... you to remove the negative rating, then the system has been subverted, just like you are being convinced, pleaded with or paid to leave positive feedback. This is being done publicly to demonstrate what is possible. If this were done privately, either through a private system of communication or through a use of many shill accounts, one would never know it was possible or happening. So the whole point is that anyone can use whatever method they choose to get YOU to do what THEY want you to do, whether it's remove feedback that helps guide others or to add feedback that deceives others. Also - please be sure you click the "This rating is negative -- the person is not trustworthy" check box on the negative trust postings, otherwise it defaults to positive, which is also a huge problem with the system. (It should be a non-defaulted radio button) Title: Re: BFL bringing down the trust rating? Post by: cedivad on March 30, 2014, 06:41:34 PM No idiot in defaultTrust will ever do anything for an imaginary Imperial Monarch.
Quote So don't worry about what Dogie says, his complaints are meaningless and the trust system will likely be removed/changed after we are done. They are ridiculous. Posted from Bitcointa.lk - #QTfYvTgAP0WmxMbm Title: Re: BFL bringing down the trust rating? Post by: dogie on March 30, 2014, 07:53:31 PM https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=42514 People are still falling for it, look at his sent.
Title: Re: BFL bringing down the trust rating? Post by: BadBear on March 30, 2014, 08:03:05 PM BFL must be getting desperate to resort to bribery.
Title: Re: BFL bringing down the trust rating? Post by: Xian01 on March 30, 2014, 08:11:16 PM *Shakes head in disgust*
Title: Re: BFL bringing down the trust rating? Post by: dogie on March 30, 2014, 08:11:36 PM Inaba: -261: -5 / +5(5). Is that a new record?
Title: Re: BFL bringing down the trust rating? Post by: cedivad on March 30, 2014, 08:14:43 PM Inaba: -261: -5 / +5(5). Is that a new record? https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=151974 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=151974)-8502: -13 / +1(1) with depth = 3 Posted from Bitcointa.lk - #bJPL2bHAnK941tNh Title: Re: BFL bringing down the trust rating? Post by: Stunna on March 30, 2014, 08:31:09 PM I don't see why people whine so much about the trust system, really all it is meant to do is serve as some sort of general guideline when dealing with new users. It's extremely sad that Inaba is bribing people to leave negative feedback for no reason. BFL has been unethical at best from day one but this sort of behavior is honestly just childish.
Title: Re: BFL bringing down the trust rating? Post by: SaltySpitoon on March 30, 2014, 10:08:24 PM I don't see why people whine so much about the trust system, really all it is meant to do is serve as some sort of general guideline when dealing with new users. It's extremely sad that Inaba is bribing people to leave negative feedback for no reason. BFL has been unethical at best from day one but this sort of behavior is honestly just childish. What I find most interesting, is that Inaba's "secondary" purpose of the contest was to show that the trust system is broken. I agree in some cases it is, but I would say that point has been a flop for this specific example. He tried to abuse the trust system, and took a hit himself. That shows that in this particular situation, the trust system works as planned. It needs some tweaking, but I don't say that it is completely ruined. Title: Re: BFL bringing down the trust rating? Post by: fsb4000 on March 30, 2014, 10:49:49 PM I just will try voice my disagreements. If I accidentally will win the monarch, it will be a nice bonus.
Title: Re: BFL bringing down the trust rating? Post by: Morbid on March 30, 2014, 11:08:16 PM this sort of behaviour just tells what type of people are running the bfl organisation. im so glad to be one of the very few who got the refund from paypal management office on time. though the $500 upgrade was never returned after multiple requests.
Title: Re: BFL bringing down the trust rating? Post by: Phreakerx on March 30, 2014, 11:15:29 PM I just will try voice my disagreements. If I accidentally will win the monarch, it will be a nice bonus. If you win they will be shipping it out in two weeks, for the next year, lol.Title: Re: BFL bringing down the trust rating? Post by: BFLrCONmen on March 30, 2014, 11:23:49 PM The desperation stinks for sure, I've got a bet down for they will be out of business by july expecting that be the deal. Someone said by end of may so I took them up on it.
Bitcoin price dropping, no more pre order money coming in.... The preasures on! They will close but keep eclipse going and all your hardwares yout sheep. Barrrrr barrrrrr The lolz train will be crashing soon Title: Re: BFL bringing down the trust rating? Post by: pbj sammich on March 30, 2014, 11:56:47 PM At this point I suppose I shouldn't be surprised by this revelation, but seriously, this is pretty shady business
Title: Re: BFL bringing down the trust rating? Post by: Swordsoffreedom on March 31, 2014, 12:15:46 AM I don't see why people whine so much about the trust system, really all it is meant to do is serve as some sort of general guideline when dealing with new users. It's extremely sad that Inaba is bribing people to leave negative feedback for no reason. BFL has been unethical at best from day one but this sort of behavior is honestly just childish. This one has to make some sort of toplist for weird things spread on the forum I guess the lesson here is that if you don't like the system just break it Title: Re: BFL bringing down the trust rating? Post by: dogie on March 31, 2014, 02:47:23 AM I don't see why people whine so much about the trust system, really all it is meant to do is serve as some sort of general guideline when dealing with new users. It's extremely sad that Inaba is bribing people to leave negative feedback for no reason. BFL has been unethical at best from day one but this sort of behavior is honestly just childish. This one has to make some sort of toplist for weird things spread on the forum I guess the lesson here is that if you don't like the system just break it Quote It will be quite interesting to see how this experiment turns out, although it may just serve to reinforce the irrelevant nature of Bitcointalk and show that no one really cares one way or another about what goes on there, which has been my opinion for quite awhile now. It's mostly just a troll echo chamber at this point, at least in the mining sections. I'm just about staying afloat/above even, and I'm giving anyone who does neg a chance to break the brainwashing of Josh first. If you look at this guy's comments, he seriously believes what he is saying: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=90768 Title: Re: BFL bringing down the trust rating? Post by: theymos on March 31, 2014, 02:59:52 AM He asked me whether he could demonstrate that the Trust system is broken. I said that he could, though I didn't know exactly what he was planning, and I don't like what he's doing here. Trust isn't the right way to respond to people whose posts you dislike. If I'd have known that he was going to do this, I would have warned him that it would probably result in significant backlash...
I'm happy with the performance of the Trust system here so far. I have a few more default-untrusted negative ratings, but Inaba's default trust score went from ~5 to -261 overnight. (I did not change anything about how the Trust system works for this.) Title: Re: BFL bringing down the trust rating? Post by: Bicknellski on March 31, 2014, 03:04:30 AM Meanwhile back on the real topic.
28nm Asics from BFL are 13 months into production still not working. They have not shipped their Monarchs and they are being sued on a number of fronts. Nice deflection off of their failures into the trust system. Misdirection at best. Poorly executed people are getting the word out BFL is losing market share because others are delivering units that are OFF THE SHELF. BFL the vapourware kings are dead. Title: Re: BFL bringing down the trust rating? Post by: KWH on March 31, 2014, 03:09:09 AM He asked me whether he could demonstrate that the Trust system is broken. I said that he could, though I didn't know exactly what he was planning, and I don't like what he's doing here. Trust isn't the right way to respond to people whose posts you dislike. If I'd have known that he was going to do this, I would have warned him that it would probably result in significant backlash... I'm happy with the performance of the Trust system here so far. I have a few more default-untrusted negative ratings, but Inaba's default trust score went from ~5 to -261 overnight. (I did not change anything about how the Trust system works for this.) Yes, it can be gamed and/or manipulated. Tell me what system can't be? The biggest "problem" I see is the retaliatory feedback but very often that very person accrues multiple negatives short term/long term. Title: Re: BFL bringing down the trust rating? Post by: dogie on March 31, 2014, 04:16:22 AM He asked me whether he could demonstrate that the Trust system is broken. I said that he could, though I didn't know exactly what he was planning, and I don't like what he's doing here. Trust isn't the right way to respond to people whose posts you dislike. If I'd have known that he was going to do this, I would have warned him that it would probably result in significant backlash... What about the largely innocent people (ie me :P) getting caught up as a target in this? I've done nothing but provide viable services to the community and newbies especially. And because we're sticking to the unmoderated system, my negs are there to stay :/I'm happy with the performance of the Trust system here so far. I have a few more default-untrusted negative ratings, but Inaba's default trust score went from ~5 to -261 overnight. (I did not change anything about how the Trust system works for this.) Edit: Look at the last one... "Bribes people for good trust ratings" from a 4 post newbie. Not only does it not make any sense and is highly contradictory, but someone with such low activity/a throw away account that's not posted in 6 weeks shouldn't be able to participate in the trust system. Title: Re: BFL bringing down the trust rating? Post by: Xian01 on March 31, 2014, 04:19:17 AM And because we're sticking to the unmoderated system, my negs are there to stay :/ I'm sorry you're a Victim of Zerlan, dogie :( You're a totally cool dude in my book, FWIW. Title: Re: BFL bringing down the trust rating? Post by: User705 on March 31, 2014, 04:28:47 AM He asked me whether he could demonstrate that the Trust system is broken. I said that he could, though I didn't know exactly what he was planning, and I don't like what he's doing here. Trust isn't the right way to respond to people whose posts you dislike. If I'd have known that he was going to do this, I would have warned him that it would probably result in significant backlash... But that happens all the time on here with no way to challenge it. Trust system isn't broken, default trust is. I mean FFS I'm red to myself. 8)I'm happy with the performance of the Trust system here so far. I have a few more default-untrusted negative ratings, but Inaba's default trust score went from ~5 to -261 overnight. (I did not change anything about how the Trust system works for this.) EDIT Also consider that in your own words Inaba's default trust score went from ~5 to -261 overnight. Mind you his company and probably he by extension deserves every single red possible but what could he have done OVERNIGHT to any of these people that left him that trust? If that isn't a sign of a broken system what is? This isn't a trust system it's a popularity system. Title: Re: BFL bringing down the trust rating? Post by: LittleD on March 31, 2014, 06:14:12 AM LOL.... Hahaahaha. I relish the fact they are putting bounties on my head. Amazing eh? You can't have people just post REAL trust ratings you have to pay for them. Ethically challenged? What a joke. When will they get their rewards? March 2014? If anyone takes BFL up on that offer they are selling their reputation for hardware. At least they are admitting they need to PAY FOR positive ratings and discredit me and dogie for the same coin and goes directly to the fact that Inaba has been abusing the trust system since it's implementation and a good reason to BAN him and BFL from the forums entirely. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=8198 (Inaba) Code: Bicknellski 14: -0 / +16(16) 2014-03-30 0.00000000 Reference Buying Trust ratings. What is wrong with that? (Delete) Feel free to counter Inaba's attempt to trash the trust ratings by posting your own negative or positive feedback. He has already lied countless times in Trust ratings and people can verify that independently by just checking what he posts for negative feedback on the trust of various people. I suggest this is just another ploy to discredit the trust system and bring it down so that his negative ratings and BFL's negatives will disappear. Don't let him run from his past keep posting the TRUTH as you know it bitcointalk members. It looks like BFL is feeling the pain and is really working on their psyops full on now. Laughable. Any of this look familiar in BFL's and Inaba's playbook? Anyone know exactly what sort of work he did in the past for the Army? Hmmm... funny his tactics seem to be right out of the psyops right? https://firstlook.org/theintercept/document/2014/02/24/art-deception-training-new-generation-online-covert-operations/ I already did bro and i gave you a good positive love :) Title: Re: BFL bringing down the trust rating? Post by: Bicknellski on March 31, 2014, 06:33:43 AM LOL.... Hahaahaha. I relish the fact they are putting bounties on my head. Amazing eh? You can't have people just post REAL trust ratings you have to pay for them. Ethically challenged? What a joke. When will they get their rewards? March 2014? If anyone takes BFL up on that offer they are selling their reputation for hardware. At least they are admitting they need to PAY FOR positive ratings and discredit me and dogie for the same coin and goes directly to the fact that Inaba has been abusing the trust system since it's implementation and a good reason to BAN him and BFL from the forums entirely. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=8198 (Inaba) Code: Bicknellski 14: -0 / +16(16) 2014-03-30 0.00000000 Reference Buying Trust ratings. What is wrong with that? (Delete) Feel free to counter Inaba's attempt to trash the trust ratings by posting your own negative or positive feedback. He has already lied countless times in Trust ratings and people can verify that independently by just checking what he posts for negative feedback on the trust of various people. I suggest this is just another ploy to discredit the trust system and bring it down so that his negative ratings and BFL's negatives will disappear. Don't let him run from his past keep posting the TRUTH as you know it bitcointalk members. It looks like BFL is feeling the pain and is really working on their psyops full on now. Laughable. Any of this look familiar in BFL's and Inaba's playbook? Anyone know exactly what sort of work he did in the past for the Army? Hmmm... funny his tactics seem to be right out of the psyops right? https://firstlook.org/theintercept/document/2014/02/24/art-deception-training-new-generation-online-covert-operations/ I already did bro and i gave you a good positive love :) If you could edit that 500 BTC out though to 0 for me from you that be great. Although I have held as much as 781 BTC (Value $80,000 USD) for others and returned it when Avalon failed to deliver our group it's chips realistically I have not held larger than a few BTC in the limited trading I have done and the refunds we did offer to our BPMC customers was not held by me I just facilitated the refunds in the thread. Thanks for the trust and I reciprocated as I feel your work on exposing BFL BS is critical to getting this company shut down. Title: Re: BFL bringing down the trust rating? Post by: killinitsoftly on March 31, 2014, 06:40:10 AM Wow.
Throwing professionalism right out the door, aren't they? ****ing pathetic. I had $10,000 pre-ordered with them and received the goods when they were worth half that. Scammy company. Title: Re: BFL bringing down the trust rating? Post by: Bicknellski on March 31, 2014, 06:51:26 AM BFL_Josh BFL_Josh is online now
Employee Quote Drawing date will be the at midnight UTC the day after we ship our first unit. On a slightly different note, the Imperial Monarch will be shipped within the first 1000 shipped (so within the first few days of starting to ship, most likely, barring any problems), as I've secured an early spot in line. I figured that would be the case but I didn't want to commit to it until I was sure. So the winning entry will receive the Imperial Monarch rather quickly once they start shipping. LOL! Eh... so what date are they shipping? Hahaha. No date... just promises to ship when they ship. Nice. If he only spent half the time he does defaming people they might actually ship the product. 13 months and counting... do you know where your bribe is? https://forums.butterflylabs.com/announcements/8203-win-butterfly-labs-imperial-monarch.html#post79152 Title: Re: BFL bringing down the trust rating? Post by: Bicknellski on March 31, 2014, 06:57:00 AM I just will try voice my disagreements. If I accidentally will win the monarch, it will be a nice bonus. Feel free to leave appropriate trust ratings for anyone that sells them. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=42514 -426: -5 / +3(3) Warning: Trade with extreme caution! Title: Re: BFL bringing down the trust rating? Post by: squall1066 on March 31, 2014, 08:03:07 AM He asked me whether he could demonstrate that the Trust system is broken. I said that he could, though I didn't know exactly what he was planning, and I don't like what he's doing here. Trust isn't the right way to respond to people whose posts you dislike. If I'd have known that he was going to do this, I would have warned him that it would probably result in significant backlash... I'm happy with the performance of the Trust system here so far. I have a few more default-untrusted negative ratings, but Inaba's default trust score went from ~5 to -261 overnight. (I did not change anything about how the Trust system works for this.) Sorry but I think this is realy poor work, I would not say anything unless I knew the in's and out's or what was being proposed. In a way, I do like the trust system, But I still don't like the fact there is no uber control, Over people posting for reasons you have mentioned, like because they dont like your posts. This is nothing more than a flame war, Bought down to its basic component level. And it's here because everyone has a voice and has the right to be heard on bitcointalk, I have personally been on the fence, Knowing the animosity growing between these two sites, But I am totally behind this site, I can understand a demonstration of a flawed trust based system, But making a competition out of it and dragging in people who in his eyes are trolling him, That is totally out of order. But enough of my rant, Is the system staying? Will we have some tweaks or some control over this? Also, I have never heard of a "default trust list" lol where is it? can I see it? Title: Re: BFL bringing down the trust rating? Post by: Sirrah on March 31, 2014, 08:38:45 AM Also, I have never heard of a "default trust list" lol where is it? can I see it? You should be able to find it here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust If you wish to change the depth of the trust list you can (to a max of 3) or you can choose to ignore defaulttrust and use your own trust list. Title: Re: BFL bringing down the trust rating? Post by: BadBear on March 31, 2014, 08:40:07 AM Sorry but I think this is realy poor work, I would not say anything unless I knew the in's and out's or what was being proposed ...Also, I have never heard of a "default trust list" lol where is it? can I see it? ??? If you don't know what default trust is how can you understand how it works? Title: Re: BFL bringing down the trust rating? Post by: Unacceptable on March 31, 2014, 08:57:15 AM He asked me whether he could demonstrate that the Trust system is broken. I said that he could, though I didn't know exactly what he was planning, and I don't like what he's doing here. Trust isn't the right way to respond to people whose posts you dislike. If I'd have known that he was going to do this, I would have warned him that it would probably result in significant backlash... What about the largely innocent people (ie me :P) getting caught up as a target in this? I've done nothing but provide viable services to the community and newbies especially. And because we're sticking to the unmoderated system, my negs are there to stay :/I'm happy with the performance of the Trust system here so far. I have a few more default-untrusted negative ratings, but Inaba's default trust score went from ~5 to -261 overnight. (I did not change anything about how the Trust system works for this.) Edit: Look at the last one... "Bribes people for good trust ratings" from a 4 post newbie. Not only does it not make any sense and is highly contradictory, but someone with such low activity/a throw away account that's not posted in 6 weeks shouldn't be able to participate in the trust system. Dogie did not "bribe" me,I left trust for a significant deal we did ;D Oh & Bick too 8) Thanks Dogie & Bick!!!!!!!!!!!! ;) Title: Re: BFL bringing down the trust rating? Post by: Sirrah on March 31, 2014, 09:08:37 AM Edit: Look at the last one... "Bribes people for good trust ratings" from a 4 post newbie. Not only does it not make any sense and is highly contradictory, but someone with such low activity/a throw away account that's not posted in 6 weeks shouldn't be able to participate in the trust system. Technically speaking his opinion (although I do agree it is highly contradictory) has as much weight as your opinion considering that to a general layperson who knows neither of you it is hard to choose which is deemed trustworthy. This is the reason that although they are allowed to create trust ratings they are not on the DefaultTrust list as they are not deemed to be trustworthy by the mods on this site. Sure it is open to revenge attacks - but a moderated trust system is completely worthless as it simply propagates the views of a few people. The way it is set up is that you can create your own trust list and hence only 'trust' people you actually feel you can 'trust'. Title: Re: BFL bringing down the trust rating? Post by: BadBear on March 31, 2014, 09:13:43 AM Edit: Look at the last one... "Bribes people for good trust ratings" from a 4 post newbie. Not only does it not make any sense and is highly contradictory, but someone with such low activity/a throw away account that's not posted in 6 weeks shouldn't be able to participate in the trust system. Technically speaking his opinion (although I do agree it is highly contradictory) has as much weight as your opinion considering that to a general layperson who knows neither of you it is hard to choose which is deemed trustworthy. This is the reason that although they are allowed to create trust ratings they are not on the DefaultTrust list as they are not deemed to be trustworthy by the mods on this site. Sure it is open to revenge attacks - but a moderated trust system is completely worthless as it simply propagates the views of a few people. The way it is set up is that you can create your own trust list and hence only 'trust' people you actually feel you can 'trust'. Agree completely, even though I would likely be one of those few. No the current system isn't perfect, but going with a moderated system is far worse. Ideally the forum itself wouldn't need moderators, but it is a necessary evil. Title: Re: BFL bringing down the trust rating? Post by: cedivad on March 31, 2014, 09:20:38 AM Is the formula that calculates trust public? I don't understand why hashfast has a less negative trust than josh, with the feedbacks being more relevant in the first case (amount risked, trust of the people leaving feedback):
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=151974 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=151974) https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=8198 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=8198) Posted from Bitcointa.lk - #5AOWrTe2PbvsUIQU Title: Re: BFL bringing down the trust rating? Post by: Bicknellski on March 31, 2014, 09:21:24 AM Edit: Look at the last one... "Bribes people for good trust ratings" from a 4 post newbie. Not only does it not make any sense and is highly contradictory, but someone with such low activity/a throw away account that's not posted in 6 weeks shouldn't be able to participate in the trust system. Technically speaking his opinion (although I do agree it is highly contradictory) has as much weight as your opinion considering that to a general layperson who knows neither of you it is hard to choose which is deemed trustworthy. This is the reason that although they are allowed to create trust ratings they are not on the DefaultTrust list as they are not deemed to be trustworthy by the mods on this site. Sure it is open to revenge attacks - but a moderated trust system is completely worthless as it simply propagates the views of a few people. The way it is set up is that you can create your own trust list and hence only 'trust' people you actually feel you can 'trust'. The trust system seems to work when people use it. Arguing to make it better is great and that is what should be happening. When you kick the hornets nest you are going get stung. There was only one result of doing this for BFL and that was to raise more awareness to their inconsistent and often negligent behaviors. We don't need moderation of trust what you really need is active participation. If people had simply used the trust function previously in addition to posting their concerns about BFL practices those ratings would be exactly the same as they are now. The reality of this situation is there is a moral line and when it is finally crossed people will act. Some will act in their own financial best interest to get a free miner but most will turn around and do what is ethically right. This to me exposes the strengths of the system and the weakness of people to stand up and take notice of what goes on pretty much on a daily basis. Josh in particular has abused 100s of people in this community from day one as a member of BFL. But you know what really his pattern of behavior is more in tune with someone attempting to simply misdirect and fud the waters. If that doesn't warrant more than huge negative trust bubbles then I think the forum here doesn't care to moderate people who are systematically trying to degrade and destroy the fabricate of reasonable discussion. What he does is in effect spam it should be treated as such. Ban him. Title: Re: BFL bringing down the trust rating? Post by: fsb4000 on March 31, 2014, 09:24:49 AM He asked me whether he could demonstrate that the Trust system is broken. I said that he could, though I didn't know exactly what he was planning, and I don't like what he's doing here. Trust isn't the right way to respond to people whose posts you dislike. If I'd have known that he was going to do this, I would have warned him that it would probably result in significant backlash... But that happens all the time on here with no way to challenge it. Trust system isn't broken, default trust is. I mean FFS I'm red to myself. 8)I'm happy with the performance of the Trust system here so far. I have a few more default-untrusted negative ratings, but Inaba's default trust score went from ~5 to -261 overnight. (I did not change anything about how the Trust system works for this.) EDIT Also consider that in your own words Inaba's default trust score went from ~5 to -261 overnight. Mind you his company and probably he by extension deserves every single red possible but what could he have done OVERNIGHT to any of these people that left him that trust? If that isn't a sign of a broken system what is? This isn't a trust system it's a popularity system. Quote BadBear 2: -0 / +2(2) 2014-03-30 0.00000000 Reference Was bribed to leave fake feedback BadBear, you(and other people do the same) are the reason why trust rating is broken.Title: Re: BFL bringing down the trust rating? Post by: Bicknellski on March 31, 2014, 09:27:37 AM He asked me whether he could demonstrate that the Trust system is broken. I said that he could, though I didn't know exactly what he was planning, and I don't like what he's doing here. Trust isn't the right way to respond to people whose posts you dislike. If I'd have known that he was going to do this, I would have warned him that it would probably result in significant backlash... But that happens all the time on here with no way to challenge it. Trust system isn't broken, default trust is. I mean FFS I'm red to myself. 8)I'm happy with the performance of the Trust system here so far. I have a few more default-untrusted negative ratings, but Inaba's default trust score went from ~5 to -261 overnight. (I did not change anything about how the Trust system works for this.) EDIT Also consider that in your own words Inaba's default trust score went from ~5 to -261 overnight. Mind you his company and probably he by extension deserves every single red possible but what could he have done OVERNIGHT to any of these people that left him that trust? If that isn't a sign of a broken system what is? This isn't a trust system it's a popularity system. Quote BadBear 2: -0 / +2(2) 2014-03-30 0.00000000 Reference Was bribed to leave fake feedback BadBear, you(and other people do the same) are the reason why trust rating is broken.So leaving negative trust for a new miners is trade deal? You sir have no ethics and clearly deserving of a NEGATIVE 600+. You leave me negative feedback that makes absolutely 0 sense given you are saying I am posting negative feed about Big Picture Mining Cooperative members. Obviously as a former member of BPMC I would definitely like to see where I have done that? You misread what trust ratings were posted copy and pasted then expecting to get a free miner out of it from BFL for the that effort? Really. At least learn the players and do a better job than cutting and pasting your bought testimony. Finally if you were really concerned about FRAUD then you would be posted negative feedback against BFL and Josh for the BS they have pulled here in the community. There are countless threads and 1000's posts about this with evidence to support what BFL has done and continues to do. You are a paid shill now enjoy the label and the free Monarch. Getting paid to lie is one thing. Getting paid to copy and paste whatever they tell you is simply ignorance especially when you copy my negative feedback for josh and then posted to me. Cripes. Idiotic. Title: Re: BFL bringing down the trust rating? Post by: SaltySpitoon on March 31, 2014, 09:29:02 AM Yes. Trust rating is broken. It should have only trade deals! But everyone leaves only their comments, although they did not make real trades. The problem with not allowing people to post feedback unless they have traded, is that in order to give someone negative feedback, you would have to be scammed first. The goal is to prevent the scams in the first place not to just stop it from happening again. If I see someone trying to pull off a scam, should I have to let myself get scammed first so I can warn everyone else? No. I should responsibly disclose why I think they are scamming, and allow people to judge for themselves the validity of my claim based on the evidence I provide. If you did something that makes you look untrustworthy, such as selling your trust to another, anyone is more than entitled to give you negative trust and to point that out. Title: Re: BFL bringing down the trust rating? Post by: BFLrCONmen on March 31, 2014, 09:30:21 AM He asked me whether he could demonstrate that the Trust system is broken. I said that he could, though I didn't know exactly what he was planning, and I don't like what he's doing here. Trust isn't the right way to respond to people whose posts you dislike. If I'd have known that he was going to do this, I would have warned him that it would probably result in significant backlash... I'm happy with the performance of the Trust system here so far. I have a few more default-untrusted negative ratings, but Inaba's default trust score went from ~5 to -261 overnight. (I did not change anything about how the Trust system works for this.) Thermalflask! You been told about this cockroach a million times but you still took money for advertising, run the worst forum going in a way that someone as remade it (bitcointa.lk) because you are so useless and only care about the $$$$ For what other reason would you agree in ANYWAY to this! Your just as much to blame for people been tippednoff by these cockroaches because you happily took there money and advertised them even with a pleather of reports because your just as bad as bfl in the end! You don't give a shit about the community! Admit it! Actions speak louder than words anyways, and we all know your history! Cockroaches, EVERYWHERE! Why are they still members on the site now? WHY are you still arbouring professional con men? He as basically pued you into this bullshit so explain yourself better! See people, say what you want about me, I've always warned you off from con men and helped where I could. I'm up front in your face and honest, I won't change and I will protect my sources so sorry I can't go into more detail but that's just how it as to be in this sick twisted world ATM. We are trying to change it but with people like these about and people with so high opinions of themselves its unreal! Cognitive disadence at its finest! Title: Re: BFL bringing down the trust rating? Post by: fsb4000 on March 31, 2014, 09:33:44 AM So leaving negative trust for a new miners is trade deal? I'm just pointing out that the trust system is not working. At least this issue is already noticed, and maybe it makes theymos reforms trust rating. In any case, I'll remove my trust feedbacks(which are not a description real trades) when this contest is over.You sir have no ethics. Title: Re: BFL bringing down the trust rating? Post by: Bicknellski on March 31, 2014, 09:36:18 AM So leaving negative trust for a new miners is trade deal? I'm just pointing out that the trust system is not working. At least this issue is already noticed, and maybe it makes theymos reforms trust rating. In any case, I'll remove my trust feedbacks(which are not a description real trades) when this contest is over.You sir have no ethics. You are posting negative feedback that has NOTHING absolutely nothing to do with me. You copy and pasted the wrong trust information. If you are going to lie at least be consistent with Inaba please. You copied what I posted about him. Foolish and lazy. You are deserving of the free Monarch and a 600+ Negative rating. Enjoy it you are now on my ignore list I have no time for people that sell their ethics for mining hardware and then try to make about the trust system. We read what you posted in the butterflylabs forum fool admitting you did it to "win" a Monarch. You lost any moral high ground admitting that you are looking for a pay out. Title: Re: BFL bringing down the trust rating? Post by: fsb4000 on March 31, 2014, 09:38:19 AM Yes. Trust rating is broken. It should have only trade deals! But everyone leaves only their comments, although they did not make real trades. The problem with not allowing people to post feedback unless they have traded, is that in order to give someone negative feedback, you would have to be scammed first. The goal is to prevent the scams in the first place not to just stop it from happening again. If I see someone trying to pull off a scam, should I have to let myself get scammed first so I can warn everyone else? No. I should responsibly disclose why I think they are scamming, and allow people to judge for themselves the validity of my claim based on the evidence I provide. If you did something that makes you look untrustworthy, such as selling your trust to another, anyone is more than entitled to give you negative trust and to point that out. TradeFortes had +500 trust rating and he scammed many people! Every scammer has positive trust before he deceives people. You can not prevent it! Title: Re: BFL bringing down the trust rating? Post by: BFLrCONmen on March 31, 2014, 09:49:49 AM Fsb dude... How much havebyou ordered from bfl? I understand you don't want all this negativity to be true but your acting like a complete ass against a wave of truth! Please don't take offense but josh uses phyops and your being used as a sheep by him!
As I've always said, these people are not stupid as many believe, there professional con men and are well into there phyops to play with peoples heads. And it works, society as a whole runs on a lie in the western world and these people know this. They know how the system works and use the ropey skills to deceive people. I just can't believe people are STILL falling for it 3 years on! Sad sheeple P.S - but this may be the best lol train to come out of bfl for a while and as some have said, very well could lead to court proceedings from some for declamation amount other more serious things. But they will shut shop soon, and disappear into the wilderness, with all your moneys and equipment you paid for... And you all know it! I gavebthem to July, a friend said may! Hell, could even be April! Haha Title: Re: BFL bringing down the trust rating? Post by: BadBear on March 31, 2014, 09:51:59 AM Yes. Trust rating is broken. It should have only trade deals! But everyone leaves only their comments, although they did not make real trades. The problem with not allowing people to post feedback unless they have traded, is that in order to give someone negative feedback, you would have to be scammed first. The goal is to prevent the scams in the first place not to just stop it from happening again. If I see someone trying to pull off a scam, should I have to let myself get scammed first so I can warn everyone else? No. I should responsibly disclose why I think they are scamming, and allow people to judge for themselves the validity of my claim based on the evidence I provide. If you did something that makes you look untrustworthy, such as selling your trust to another, anyone is more than entitled to give you negative trust and to point that out. TradeFortes had +500 trust rating and he scammed many people! Every scammer has positive trust before he deceives people. You can not prevent it! Nothing will stop long cons short of 100% bonding insurance or something. Doesn't mean we can't try. So leaving negative trust for a new miners is trade deal? I'm just pointing out that the trust system is not working. At least this issue is already noticed, and maybe it makes theymos reforms trust rating. In any case, I'll remove my trust feedbacks(which are not a description real trades) when this contest is over.You sir have no ethics. Sure pal, whatever lets you sleep at night knowing you sold out. Kind of odd you didn't care about it "not working" until you got a chance at a free miner though. Title: Re: BFL bringing down the trust rating? Post by: fsb4000 on March 31, 2014, 09:58:23 AM Fsb dude... How much havebyou ordered from bfl? I understand you don't want all this negativity to be true but your acting like a complete ass against a wave of truth! Please don't take offense but josh uses phyops and your being used as a sheep by him! I ordered 1 Little Single (September 2012 year)( I paid via Paypal, I did not spend any Bitcoins). I received 1 Little Single(August 2013 year). Little Single earned me $3000. So, my ROI is really positive. As I've always said, these people are not stupid as many believe, there professional con men and are well into there phyops to play with peoples heads. And it works, society as a whole runs on a lie in the western world and these people know this. They know how the system works and use the ropey skills to deceive people. I just can't believe people are STILL falling for it 3 years on! Sad sheeple Besides I like Bitsafe http://www.butterflylabs.com/bitcoin-hardware-wallet/ Keeping these things it's not a crime for me to leave positive feedback to Josh... Title: Re: BFL bringing down the trust rating? Post by: BFLrCONmen on March 31, 2014, 10:07:40 AM Fsb dude... How much havebyou ordered from bfl? I understand you don't want all this negativity to be true but your acting like a complete ass against a wave of truth! Please don't take offense but josh uses phyops and your being used as a sheep by him! I ordered 1 Little Single (September 2012 year)( I paid via Paypal, I did not spend any Bitcoins). I received 1 Little Single(August 2013 year). Little Single earned me $3000. So, my ROI is really positive. As I've always said, these people are not stupid as many believe, there professional con men and are well into there phyops to play with peoples heads. And it works, society as a whole runs on a lie in the western world and these people know this. They know how the system works and use the ropey skills to deceive people. I just can't believe people are STILL falling for it 3 years on! Sad sheeple Besides I like Bitsafe http://www.butterflylabs.com/bitcoin-hardware-wallet/ Keeping these things it's not a crime for me to leave positive feedback to Josh... O wow! You been around since then and still back these con men! Please say your a shill and paid to do this otherwise you are a lost spirit with just as much cognitive disadence as josh! To the point of been so disconnected you are phycopathic if anyone questions the fictional representation of yourself! You see, this whole test the trust system by josh is his cognitive disadence lashing out because he's been challenged, and rightly so! As for bit safe dude! Trezor, nymi and many others. I've ordered both. Bitsafe is a joke, it probably be loaded with a backdoor so they can take a your moneys when they want Hana. You sir, are a fraud, whichever way you look at it. You either know you are or you are so fucked in the head there's no hope for you (like josh) and just shoot yourself and do everyone a favour. I look deeper than the surface of people and see them for what they are. J saw josh in London 2012 and saw straight through him! I can spot 'sick' people a mile off. Most of the world is sic so its not uncommon! Fucking sheep! Title: Re: BFL bringing down the trust rating? Post by: fsb4000 on March 31, 2014, 10:16:54 AM As for bit safe dude! Trezor, nymi and many others. I've ordered both. Bitsafe is a joke, it probably be loaded with a backdoor so they can take a your moneys when they want Hana. It shows your ignorance. Bitsafe will be OpenSource. I think I have enough knowledge to check for a backdoor ;) Title: Re: BFL bringing down the trust rating? Post by: cedivad on March 31, 2014, 10:20:03 AM It shows your ignorance. Lol at opensource, lol at you finding a backdoor in the rng.Bitsafe will be OpenSource. I think I have enough knowledge to check for a backdoor ;) Posted from Bitcointa.lk - #HZ4O7EoyLJwrLPpE Title: Re: BFL bringing down the trust rating? Post by: BFLrCONmen on March 31, 2014, 10:26:18 AM It shows your ignorance. Lol at opensource, lol at you finding a backdoor in the rng.Bitsafe will be OpenSource. I think I have enough knowledge to check for a backdoor ;) Posted from Bitcointa.lk - #HZ4O7EoyLJwrLPpE Yes, some people can't see the wood for the trees.... Fsb4000 & bcp19 are obviously paid (before/still are, who knows) and can not entrusted. They go around with hero members as does josh and bfl even though its been shown 1000 times they are useless. Thermal flask is obviously in on all this too because if he cared he would have stopped this shit 18 months ago before any of this latest piece of scummy tactics had chance to take place. Thermal flask obviously doesn't care about this site either as he allows his name get dragged down with all this too! Come on people, wake the fuck up and stop sniffing the glue from joshs and thermal flasks ass! Title: Re: BFL bringing down the trust rating? Post by: squall1066 on March 31, 2014, 10:41:44 AM Sorry but I think this is realy poor work, I would not say anything unless I knew the in's and out's or what was being proposed ...Also, I have never heard of a "default trust list" lol where is it? can I see it? ??? If you don't know what default trust is how can you understand how it works? For some reason you have melded two different statements together, Let me explain, I always thought the trust rating was between members, I understood this and that is what I like, I did not, However, Knew that the forum had it's own trust based settings, I did not know that if you delete all the members you personally add, you will obtain a trust rating based on the forum. Sometimes I write here what I would say to someone who knows me, Sorry for the confusion. :-[ Title: Re: BFL bringing down the trust rating? Post by: Bicknellski on March 31, 2014, 10:44:42 AM It shows your ignorance. Lol at opensource, lol at you finding a backdoor in the rng.Bitsafe will be OpenSource. I think I have enough knowledge to check for a backdoor ;) Posted from Bitcointa.lk - #HZ4O7EoyLJwrLPpE Alten's work. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=152517.40 All the Bitmit listings regarding the Bitsafe and Bitsafe development are now live! https://www.bitmit.net/en/q/?q=bitsafe Title: Re: BFL bringing down the trust rating? Post by: BFLrCONmen on March 31, 2014, 10:57:52 AM It shows your ignorance. Lol at opensource, lol at you finding a backdoor in the rng.Bitsafe will be OpenSource. I think I have enough knowledge to check for a backdoor ;) Posted from Bitcointa.lk - #HZ4O7EoyLJwrLPpE Alten's work. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=152517.40 All the Bitmit listings regarding the Bitsafe and Bitsafe development are now live! https://www.bitmit.net/en/q/?q=bitsafe Can someone quote this for me as bick is an asumptious prick and blocked me! YOUR LAST LINK IS DEAD! Title: Re: BFL bringing down the trust rating? Post by: BadBear on March 31, 2014, 11:04:07 AM Sorry but I think this is realy poor work, I would not say anything unless I knew the in's and out's or what was being proposed ...Also, I have never heard of a "default trust list" lol where is it? can I see it? ??? If you don't know what default trust is how can you understand how it works? For some reason you have melded two different statements together, Let me explain, I always thought the trust rating was between members, I understood this and that is what I like, I did not, However, Knew that the forum had it's own trust based settings, I did not know that if you delete all the members you personally add, you will obtain a trust rating based on the forum. Sometimes I write here what I would say to someone who knows me, Sorry for the confusion. :-[ I wasn't trying to meld them together, just highlighting what I was questioning specifically and put the ellipses there to denote removed content. nutjob ramblings Would you go away, this thread is about BFL and their attempts at gaming the trust system, all you're gonna do is derail it and kill the thread. Title: Re: BFL bringing down the trust rating? Post by: dogie on March 31, 2014, 11:07:13 AM Fsb dude... How much havebyou ordered from bfl? I understand you don't want all this negativity to be true but your acting like a complete ass against a wave of truth! Please don't take offense but josh uses phyops and your being used as a sheep by him! I ordered 1 Little Single (September 2012 year)( I paid via Paypal, I did not spend any Bitcoins). I received 1 Little Single(August 2013 year). Little Single earned me $3000. So, my ROI is really positive. As I've always said, these people are not stupid as many believe, there professional con men and are well into there phyops to play with peoples heads. And it works, society as a whole runs on a lie in the western world and these people know this. They know how the system works and use the ropey skills to deceive people. I just can't believe people are STILL falling for it 3 years on! Sad sheeple Besides I like Bitsafe http://www.butterflylabs.com/bitcoin-hardware-wallet/ Keeping these things it's not a crime for me to leave positive feedback to Josh... So why does that lead to negative feedback for me, with "troll"? What interactions have we EVER had before you decided I was a troll? None. Title: Re: BFL bringing down the trust rating? Post by: fsb4000 on March 31, 2014, 11:24:59 AM So why does that lead to negative feedback for me, with "troll"? What interactions have we EVER had before you decided I was a troll? None. You advertised ASICMiner Asics(which did not make positive ROI for anyone) and antiadvertised BFL and AVALON(although batch 1 and batch 2 AVALON made big positive ROI for buyers). I regarded it as trolling...Actually why do you care what I wrote about you? If you know what you are good, you can just ignore all. For example, I know that I'm not a scammer, so then my trust rating says about me: "Warning: Trade with extreme caution!" I know that trust rating is broken :) Title: Re: BFL bringing down the trust rating? Post by: BFLrCONmen on March 31, 2014, 11:36:11 AM So why does that lead to negative feedback for me, with "troll"? What interactions have we EVER had before you decided I was a troll? None. You advertised ASICMiner Asics(which did not make positive ROI for anyone) and antiadvertised BFL and AVALON(although batch 1 and batch 2 AVALON made big positive ROI for buyers). I regarded it as trolling...Actually why do you care what I wrote about you? If you know what you are good, you can just ignore all. For example, I know that I'm not a scammer, so then my trust rating says about me: "Warning: Trade with extreme caution!" I know that trust rating is broken :) You know shit dude! That's is clear to everyone! And leaving people bad feedback for a 'competition' made up by a delusional coo of a company makes you what again? Jesus dude, stop digging your own grave! Title: Re: BFL bringing down the trust rating? Post by: Jamestty on March 31, 2014, 01:05:20 PM I just will try voice my disagreements. If I accidentally will win the monarch, it will be a nice bonus. if you were really concerned about FRAUD then you would be posted negative feedback against BFL and Josh for the BS they have pulled here in the community. There are countless threads and 1000's posts about this with evidence to support what BFL has done and continues to do. You are a paid shill now enjoy the label and the free Monarch. Getting paid to lie is one thing. Getting paid to copy and paste whatever they tell you is simply ignorance especially when you copy my negative feedback for josh and then posted to me. Title: Re: BFL bringing down the trust rating? Post by: dogie on March 31, 2014, 01:10:09 PM So why does that lead to negative feedback for me, with "troll"? What interactions have we EVER had before you decided I was a troll? None. You advertised ASICMiner Asics(which did not make positive ROI for anyone) and antiadvertised BFL and AVALON(although batch 1 and batch 2 AVALON made big positive ROI for buyers). I regarded it as trolling...Actually why do you care what I wrote about you? If you know what you are good, you can just ignore all. For example, I know that I'm not a scammer, so then my trust rating says about me: "Warning: Trade with extreme caution!" I know that trust rating is broken :) I'm sorry my opinion (shared by 95% of the people here) offends your 'brain'. Title: Re: BFL bringing down the trust rating? Post by: Jamestty on March 31, 2014, 01:16:09 PM Just for the record, I do NOT consent to this. For some reason you have melded two different statements together, Let me explain, I always thought the trust rating was between members, I understood this and that is what I like, I did not, However, Knew that the forum had it's own trust based settings, I did not know that if you delete all the members you personally add, you will obtain a trust rating based on the forum. Title: Re: BFL bringing down the trust rating? Post by: fsb4000 on March 31, 2014, 01:18:04 PM I'm sorry my opinion (shared by 95% of the people here) offends your 'brain'. Nothing offends. You can write whatever you want. I just do not understand why you so care about my opinion?? Are you not be able to sleep knowing that I wrote negative feedbacks? Take it easy :D Title: Re: BFL bringing down the trust rating? Post by: pajak666 on March 31, 2014, 02:00:20 PM If anyone takes BFL up on that offer they are selling their reputation for hardware. At least they are admitting they need to PAY FOR positive ratings and discredit me and dogie for the same coin and goes directly to the fact that Inaba has been abusing the trust system since it's implementation and a good reason to BAN him and BFL from the forums entirely. He should have been banned ages ago. Title: Re: BFL bringing down the trust rating? Post by: BFLrCONmen on March 31, 2014, 02:13:04 PM If anyone takes BFL up on that offer they are selling their reputation for hardware. At least they are admitting they need to PAY FOR positive ratings and discredit me and dogie for the same coin and goes directly to the fact that Inaba has been abusing the trust system since it's implementation and a good reason to BAN him and BFL from the forums entirely. He should have been banned ages ago. THIS! But as has been said, he was paying for advertising space and theymos (thermal flask) who runs this site is just as ropey as josh/bfl as I have been saying for 2-3 years now. Boy how time fly's, and things never change :-( Sad Title: Re: BFL bringing down the trust rating? Post by: fsb4000 on March 31, 2014, 02:17:34 PM If anyone takes BFL up on that offer they are selling their reputation for hardware. At least they are admitting they need to PAY FOR positive ratings and discredit me and dogie for the same coin and goes directly to the fact that Inaba has been abusing the trust system since it's implementation and a good reason to BAN him and BFL from the forums entirely. He should have been banned ages ago. NO. Your choice is Despotism ! All who disagree must be banned!!! It's not cool :-\ Title: Re: BFL bringing down the trust rating? Post by: BFLrCONmen on March 31, 2014, 02:28:26 PM People like fsb4000 facilitate trash like bfl and its because of 'blind' people like this why misinformation and disinformation works so well, ask josh, he's a phyops expert. I say expert..... With a pitch of salt, but he knows the tricks which in the end is just deflect, deceive and detract! Now where did I see that before.... (NSA, FBI, gchq etc etc)
Fsb4000 is just bcp19 MK2. Yet another sheep following his blind masters. There's nothing new here. Just sit back and watch this train wreck! Just remember the truth really gets to them and they lash out when there perceptions are under threat. People who make 'boxes' for themselves to make them selves feel 'secure' and don't like anything that intrudes on there misconceptions made up in there head to seek security.... At the loss of freedom! You see when your on the side of truth you see everything for what it is and allows you to truely be free and see people for who they are. This century will be the century of the south. Mushrooms/mycillian is the answer to the atrocities around the world too. Some can soak up the hydrocarbons out of oil making oil spills completely fixable. Some absorb radiation which can fix the pacific ocean, cynobal etc etc. Its mushrooms that create soil and expand the land for trees and animals to flourish. They are basically the invert of us! Everything's on the outside where our stuff is on the inside (stomach/brain etc) and there's a fundamental connection between us, mycillian and plants! You know, if we nuke ourselves and kill all plants and animals on this planet, mycillian will fix it over enough time and plants will return one day and give life to new creatures. Its an intelligent being and we can learn a lot from it! We are on the 6th large extinction on this planet and its unique this time, its caused by an organism from this planet, us, humans! I highly reccomend you look up Paul stamets and start realising the horrors of the world and start seeing we can turn this around still! But while you harbour scum like bfl, queen of UK & Holland, Rothschild's, rockerfellas, goldsmiths(Rothschild's again), Windsors, us congress, governments worldwide etc etc your only going take us closer and closer to our demise! Hell, its probably too late but I'm banking on the other 6.5 billion, not you fruit cakes around here! Truth hurts I know but suck it up and face that generations have been lied to and as a whole out collective intelligence is fucking full retard! Don't beat yourself up too much, times a big healer and soon you will be running with ideas! Those who look up are dreamers, those that look inwards are awakened! Who are you? Peace Title: Re: BFL bringing down the trust rating? Post by: LittleD on March 31, 2014, 07:32:50 PM I would really like to here from an admin about what BFL is doing to this site ??? Should BFL/Josh be allowed to do this ??? anyone that's buying trust reviews should be band and tagged as a scammer ???
Any admin looking into this... peoples reps could be ruin by this kind of behavior... can anyone do this ??? ... What would happen in I start something like this??? ... Or are you guy (bitcointalk) allowing this bcus BFL/Josh pays your bills ??? Please admin's let us know what you guys are doing to solve this problem called "BFL/Josh/Inabobobobob" ??? Title: Re: BFL bringing down the trust rating? Post by: Velkro on March 31, 2014, 07:47:16 PM sick joke from them if thats true, cant believe it
they should be ashamed Title: Re: BFL bringing down the trust rating? Post by: LittleD on March 31, 2014, 08:03:53 PM I would really like to here from an admin about what BFL is doing to this site ??? Should BFL/Josh be allowed to do this ??? anyone that's buying trust reviews should be band and tagged as a scammer ??? Any admin looking into this... peoples reps could be ruin by this kind of behavior... can anyone do this ??? ... What would happen in I start something like this??? ... Or are you guy (bitcointalk) allowing this bcus BFL/Josh pays your bills ??? Please admin's let us know what you guys are doing to solve this problem called "BFL/Josh/Inabobobobob" ??? I would really like to here from an admin about what BFL is doing to this site ??? Should BFL/Josh be allowed to do this ??? anyone that's buying trust reviews should be band and tagged as a scammer ??? Any admin looking into this... peoples reps could be ruin by this kind of behavior... can anyone do this ??? ... What would happen in I start something like this??? ... Or are you guy (bitcointalk) allowing this bcus BFL/Josh pays your bills ??? Please admin's let us know what you guys are doing to solve this problem called "BFL/Josh/Inabobobobob" ??? Thanks https://forums.butterflylabs.com/announcements/8203-win-butterfly-labs-imperial-monarch-3.html Inaba/BFL already received negative feedback from me and a few other people. Trust feedback is not moderated, anyone can do whatever they want with it as they please. Title: Re: BFL bringing down the trust rating? Post by: SaltySpitoon on March 31, 2014, 08:26:15 PM I would really like to here from an admin about what BFL is doing to this site ??? Should BFL/Josh be allowed to do this ??? anyone that's buying trust reviews should be band and tagged as a scammer ??? Any admin looking into this... peoples reps could be ruin by this kind of behavior... can anyone do this ??? ... What would happen in I start something like this??? ... Or are you guy (bitcointalk) allowing this bcus BFL/Josh pays your bills ??? Please admin's let us know what you guys are doing to solve this problem called "BFL/Josh/Inabobobobob" ??? The trust system isn't moderated. If you haven't noticed, Dogie, Squal, and Theymos are all targets of Josh's contest, yet Theymos hasn't removed his own negative ratings either. It is allowed, but as you have seen here, when people do these sort of things, they lose all of their own credibility and the effect on the targets is near zero. I don't often vouch for the default trust list, but this is exactly why it exists. I don't see any negative hits against any of your trust, because I don't trust those that are leaving the negative feedback in the first place. I wouldn't stop trading with you guys because FSB was paid to give you negative trust, I would just disregard his trust given the circumstances. These people that are leaving negative feedback have no influence in their trust at all, so it doesn't effect anyone besides themselves. Inaba got negative trust from myself as well. I haven't been involved in any of the BFL disputes, because I don't care. I'm not a customer nor a potential customer, and never have been, so I have never left negative trust over the BFL thing (its pretty bad that everyone knows what I'm talking about when I say BFL thing) but this is a scummy move, and deserves the neg. Now its up to others to determine whether they trust my and the other negatives Josh has received. If they don't care, they are welcome to do what they want, negative trust doesn't automatically make someone a scammer. It just tells people to do a little extra research, and to see if the claims have any validity before doing business. *edit* also for the record, Inaba hasn't purchased any advertising slots since round 107 (January 9th) 3 months ago. The "you are being paid off by Inaba" point is invalid for that, and another reason which I'd be happy to pm if you care. Its a long post I made a while ago calculating how much money Theymos actually gets from Inaba's advertising. Title: Re: BFL bringing down the trust rating? Post by: KWH on March 31, 2014, 08:56:41 PM I would really like to here from an admin about what BFL is doing to this site ??? Should BFL/Josh be allowed to do this ??? anyone that's buying trust reviews should be band and tagged as a scammer ??? Any admin looking into this... peoples reps could be ruin by this kind of behavior... can anyone do this ??? ... What would happen in I start something like this??? ... Or are you guy (bitcointalk) allowing this bcus BFL/Josh pays your bills ??? Please admin's let us know what you guys are doing to solve this problem called "BFL/Josh/Inabobobobob" ??? The trust system isn't moderated. If you haven't noticed, Dogie, Squal, and Theymos are all targets of Josh's contest, yet Theymos hasn't removed his own negative ratings either. It is allowed, but as you have seen here, when people do these sort of things, they lose all of their own credibility and the effect on the targets is near zero. I don't often vouch for the default trust list, but this is exactly why it exists. I don't see any negative hits against any of your trust, because I don't trust those that are leaving the negative feedback in the first place. I wouldn't stop trading with you guys because FSB was paid to give you negative trust, I would just disregard his trust given the circumstances. These people that are leaving negative feedback have no influence in their trust at all, so it doesn't effect anyone besides themselves. Inaba got negative trust from myself as well. I haven't been involved in any of the BFL disputes, because I don't care. I'm not a customer nor a potential customer, and never have been, so I have never left negative trust over the BFL thing (its pretty bad that everyone knows what I'm talking about when I say BFL thing) but this is a scummy move, and deserves the neg. Now its up to others to determine whether they trust my and the other negatives Josh has received. If they don't care, they are welcome to do what they want, negative trust doesn't automatically make someone a scammer. It just tells people to do a little extra research, and to see if the claims have any validity before doing business. *edit* also for the record, Inaba hasn't purchased any advertising slots since round 107 (January 9th) 3 months ago. The "you are being paid off by Inaba" point is invalid for that, and another reason which I'd be happy to pm if you care. Its a long post I made a while ago calculating how much money Theymos actually gets from Inaba's advertising. Well said. I will add: Those that leave negatives, look at their Trust. Often they have negative Trust as well and even more than they leave. I tend to follow the trails and make my decision to trust or not. Title: Re: BFL bringing down the trust rating? Post by: BFLrCONmen on March 31, 2014, 09:23:24 PM Notice how he spent his time online today sending copy paste replies to the trust system butnas not posted anything since 22nd march over 1 week ago? No come back, no defending himself (somehow), no nothing.
I called him out about been a only child with a silver spoon in his mouth and silence! You know when your getting close with these cockroaches because they shut off and do whatever they can to save face only for it to fly back in there faces. This dude is seriously sociopathic and disillusioned to the point of you got to seriously think he as a problem! A problem that is unrepairable as he seriously thinks he can walk on water and there's no getting through to someone with this disposition! He is a true lost spirit and just removing him from the gene pool is the only answer! Why asnt someone done that already anyways, I mean, we know where his offices are..... Title: Re: BFL bringing down the trust rating? Post by: fsb4000 on March 31, 2014, 09:26:08 PM If they don't care, they are welcome to do what they want, negative trust doesn't automatically make someone a scammer. It just tells people to do a little extra research, and to see if the claims have any validity before doing business. Well said, you almost completely repeated Josh's thought. I will add: POSITIVE trust doesn't automatically make someone a reliable. You should do a little extra research, and to see if the feedbacks have any validity before doing business. Think rather than just look at the trust rating numbers! Title: Re: BFL bringing down the trust rating? Post by: KWH on March 31, 2014, 09:48:40 PM If they don't care, they are welcome to do what they want, negative trust doesn't automatically make someone a scammer. It just tells people to do a little extra research, and to see if the claims have any validity before doing business. Well said, you almost completely repeated Josh's thought. I will add: POSITIVE trust doesn't automatically make someone a reliable. You should do a little extra research, and to see if the feedbacks have any validity before doing business. Think rather than just look at the trust rating numbers! I agree with this as well. We've seen scammers with impeccable Trust turn dark. That's why one must do their own research before dealing. In the end, it's just an educated guess. Title: Re: BFL bringing down the trust rating? Post by: LittleD on March 31, 2014, 09:51:55 PM vBulletin Message
"The Butterfly Labs Forums are offline at the moment! We are performing some system upgrades and will be back shortly." hmmm... I wonder WHY! https://forums.butterflylabs.com/announcements/8203-win-butterfly-labs-imperial-monarch.html Title: Re: BFL bringing down the trust rating? Post by: LittleD on March 31, 2014, 09:54:25 PM Leave Negative feedback for these three accounts:
Inaba: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=8198 BFL_Josh: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=63314 BFL: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=44366 https://forums.butterflylabs.com/announcements/8203-win-butterfly-labs-imperial-monarch.html Title: Re: BFL bringing down the trust rating? Post by: Bicknellski on March 31, 2014, 10:53:39 PM I would prefer not to receive any POSITIVE trust ratings as a result of this insanity. Please do not ask people to post positive trust for my account. I would rather EARN the trust as a result of my dealings with individuals. Please if you can LittleD remove me from that list in your posts. Nothing is solved by gaming the system to counter BFL's BS.
What really needs to happen is Inaba, BFL and BFL_Josh need to have a ban. For what amounts to a spam attempt on the trust system. Even though only 3 people have taken them up on their offer as I guess there are only 3 people on their website the intent was there to FLOOD the system with spam trust. You ban others from this forum for sending PM's you should reward Josh and BFL the same way. Give them a 30 day rest away from the forum for the attempt. Title: Re: BFL bringing down the trust rating? Post by: fsb4000 on March 31, 2014, 11:01:46 PM Leave Negative feedback for these three accounts: This post is the best evidence(demonstration) that "bitcointalk trust rating" is not real trust rating and just popularity rating.Inaba: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=8198 BFL_Josh: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=63314 BFL: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=44366 https://forums.butterflylabs.com/announcements/8203-win-butterfly-labs-imperial-monarch.html and Leave Positive feedback for these three accounts: Theymos: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=35 Dogie: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=87869 Bicknellski: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=76550 Thank you LittleD ;) Title: Re: BFL bringing down the trust rating? Post by: dogie on April 01, 2014, 12:06:10 AM Its not as simple as their ratings meaning nothing though, because they put fake comments, like the last one I've received: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=292478
It makes it look like he purchased something and never received it. If a new person comes along, they now ARE less likely to trade with me because of that. Title: Re: BFL bringing down the trust rating? Post by: Swordsoffreedom on April 01, 2014, 04:38:48 AM It makes it look like he purchased something and never received it. If a new person comes along, they now ARE less likely to trade with me because of that. I guess in a sense trust while being useful does bring about a fair bit of collateral damage just because of the way it was designed in the first place Title: Re: BFL bringing down the trust rating? Post by: BFLrCONmen on April 01, 2014, 07:41:50 AM Again, this whole site is a joke run by a joker (thrymos) so whoncare what josh and his fellow cronies are doing. Bcp19, fsb4000 etc are all on the payroll over there so who cares what they do. Let him do his silly little thing and ignore him,
JUST IGNOR HIM! Nothing gets to them more than not giving an attention seeking prick attention! Title: Re: BFL bringing down the trust rating? Post by: BFLrCONmen on April 01, 2014, 07:54:14 AM Have a look at his sent
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=8198 He's sending negative feedback to others as well as the ones specifically in his twisted phyops game that he's playing on..... Himself? I mean, everyone with common sense and a memory longer than a gold fish ( I know, goldfish have good memories but you get the point!) Doesn't need trust ratings, he lost and faith of the community YEARS ago for most, never mind all these silly games he plays. One sick mother fucker indeed! Someone syphon the fuel outnof hisnplane or something ha ha. Shit this dude is so disconnected, when's his next conference, I recon we all go pay him a visit... Who's in! Title: Re: BFL bringing down the trust rating? Post by: millsdmb on April 01, 2014, 10:27:42 PM BFL must be getting desperate to resort to bribery. this.Title: Re: BFL bringing down the trust rating? Post by: Bicknellski on April 02, 2014, 07:44:48 AM Quote 04-01-2014, 02:46 PM #30 BFL_Josh BFL_Josh is offline Employee BFL_Josh's Avatar Blog Entries Just not on those days... meaning you'd have 1 less entry into the contest when we run the random drawing. Each day is a separate ticket to enter in the raffle basically. I think this constitutes spamming the trust system. Will the mods take action? Title: Re: BFL bringing down the trust rating? Post by: Xian01 on April 02, 2014, 09:22:41 AM Quote 04-01-2014, 02:46 PM #30 BFL_Josh BFL_Josh is offline Employee BFL_Josh's Avatar Blog Entries Just not on those days... meaning you'd have 1 less entry into the contest when we run the random drawing. Each day is a separate ticket to enter in the raffle basically. I think this constitutes spamming the trust system. Will the mods take action? Nope. Title: Re: BFL bringing down the trust rating? Post by: YipYip on April 03, 2014, 01:53:35 AM I'm sorry my opinion (shared by 95% of the people here) offends your 'brain'. Nothing offends. You can write whatever you want. I just do not understand why you so care about my opinion?? Are you not be able to sleep knowing that I wrote negative feedbacks? Take it easy :D Heres my opinion "GO FUCK YOURSELF" See it does not really matter ...does it ?? Title: Re: BFL bringing down the trust rating? Post by: fsb4000 on April 03, 2014, 05:41:30 AM I'm sorry my opinion (shared by 95% of the people here) offends your 'brain'. Nothing offends. You can write whatever you want. I just do not understand why you so care about my opinion?? Are you not be able to sleep knowing that I wrote negative feedbacks? Take it easy :D Here's my opinion "GO FUCK YOURSELF" See it does not really matter ...does it ?? Actually, everyone who do not like Josh should be happy about this contest. Because as a result of this contest Josh will lose his money.(the cost of one monarch) economic punishment :D Title: Re: BFL bringing down the trust rating? Post by: Swordsoffreedom on April 04, 2014, 05:31:21 AM I'm sorry my opinion (shared by 95% of the people here) offends your 'brain'. Nothing offends. You can write whatever you want. I just do not understand why you so care about my opinion?? Are you not be able to sleep knowing that I wrote negative feedbacks? Take it easy :D Here's my opinion "GO FUCK YOURSELF" See it does not really matter ...does it ?? Actually, everyone who do not like Josh should be happy about this contest. Because as a result of this contest Josh will lose his money.(the cost of one monarch) economic punishment :D For some reason I was thinking it may be one monarch but that sure ain't much compared to everything else hes collected from preorders lol Title: Re: BFL bringing down the trust rating? Post by: dogie on April 04, 2014, 09:00:41 PM Wow, BFL really doing a good job spamming my trust.
Title: Re: BFL bringing down the trust rating? Post by: SaltySpitoon on April 04, 2014, 09:04:04 PM Wow, BFL really doing a good job spamming my trust. http://puu.sh/7W3vb.png http://puu.sh/7W3y4.png You look alright to me ;D *cough cough* one of the first times I can say that the default trust system is working in a positive manner. Title: Re: BFL bringing down the trust rating? Post by: Bicknellski on April 05, 2014, 05:40:38 AM Spam is spam... you can't PM people too much or that is spam but you can ask your "customers" or make phony accounts to post day after day after day on the trust system. 99.99% of these trust ratings are lies and or attempts to further promote BFL products and the "contest" and has little or nothing to do with the stated purpose of the trust system and thus needs to be removed or sanctioned sooner than later our people will abuse it even more. This isn't about an abuse of the system against a single person but really it is to further promote a company using the trust system. If you allow companies to use the Trust system as a form or advertisement then I suspect you are going to see this proliferate. Seems like a cheap and easy way to promote a product and avoid paying for adds on the forum.
What is stopping me now from posting a positive trust rating on every member of this site with a link to my favourite product? Or say a warning to everyone not to buy BFL and link Case Name:Meissner v. BF Labs Inc. (http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2014/02/new-lawsuit-against-bitcoin-miner-manufacturer-alleges-fraud-negligence/) and this Case Cause:28:1330 Breach of Contract (https://ia600702.us.archive.org/13/items/gov.uscourts.ksd.95395/gov.uscourts.ksd.95395.docket.html) or Case No. 2:13-cv-2617 JURY TRIAL REQUESTED (http://ia700702.us.archive.org/13/items/gov.uscourts.ksd.95395/gov.uscourts.ksd.95395.2.0.pdf) to where legal action has been taken against BFL? I don't suggest for a minute that everyone who hates BFL and the way they have treated this community enmasse post these links tied to BFL (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=44366) , Inaba (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=8198) or BFL_Josh (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=63314) or anyone of the people that are now spamming the trust but here is a list of their names below feel free to do what you want as there are no rules against it obviously. That would be a mess wouldn't it oh boy? And yes this is going to be a new thread in Meta to track each and everyone of these people so that the community is aware of what BFL is doing. It is interesting that even with 100s of customers they can only get a handful to take this deal and many I suspect are just puppet accounts they created here in Bitcointalk given that most are newbie accounts. Now I am doing this not for me I don't give a rats ass about the trust system, or my own reputation here in BTCtalk land as I am pretty certain anyone of merit understands who I am and what I have done and if they don't they will see how I will treat the community in the coming months and years. I do worry Dogie's rep and I think that BFL has certainly made an enemy out of someone that nearly all of the mining community recognizes as upstanding and helpful. Here is my pledge that I will spend the required time to rectify that and make sure that anyone messing with his trust rating is sanctioned properly by the trust system. However the mods need to do more to protect people who are being helpful. It is beyond me why this forum would not stand up for someone like this and protect them against this sort of thing, but that is not in their job description. Spam is. This is spam. These are the spammers do something. This list will be updated as BFL adds more puppet accounts. Spammers as of 05/04/2014: BFL (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=44366) Inaba (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=8198) BFL_Josh (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=63314) dmelj (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=107699) Anonymailer (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=36173) hardhouseinc (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=292478) Cassey (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=222321) criminalben (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=65757) Pry4u (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=176519) fsb4000 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=42514) Pokokohua! (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=90768) securo (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=39496) Flyeye (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=165399) BTCJack (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=225623) stevenmicah (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=127095) Raw-H (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=165088) JoRoidx (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=143951) alphabetacanary (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=160928) monsterblitz (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=26183) I wouldn't ask people to simply cut and paste this into the trust ratings of those who are trying to spam the trust system as a protest to BFL and to show the mods that spam is really not what the trust system is for. Although technically this is well within the trust rating system to post warnings like this against people who are scammers. Then again it could be easily resolved if the moderators take up the stand that this is spam and put all these accounts on notice. Note that Martin Meissner was scammed for $62,000 USD approx 140 BTC at today's rates. BTC Market Rates (http://bitcoinity.org/markets) Quote BFL being sued for breach of contract. Case Name:Meissner v. BF Labs Inc. (http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2014/02/new-lawsuit-against-bitcoin-miner-manufacturer-alleges-fraud-negligence/) and this Case Cause:28:1330 Breach of Contract (https://ia600702.us.archive.org/13/items/gov.uscourts.ksd.95395/gov.uscourts.ksd.95395.docket.html) or Case No. 2:13-cv-2617 JURY TRIAL REQUESTED (http://ia700702.us.archive.org/13/items/gov.uscourts.ksd.95395/gov.uscourts.ksd.95395.2.0.pdf) Do not http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2014/02/new-lawsuit-against-bitcoin-miner-manufacturer-alleges-fraud-negligence/; https://ia600702.us.archive.org/13/items/gov.uscourts.ksd.95395/gov.uscourts.ksd.95395.docket.html; http://ia700702.us.archive.org/13/items/gov.uscourts.ksd.95395/gov.uscourts.ksd.95395.2.0.pdf Are we now allowing the trust system to be an advertorial sytem. At what point does it become spam. I would suggest it has passed that mark the day someone posted 2x on the same "trust" aspect ie in terms of the BFL "contest". At this point you have to admit this is spam and it should be addressed. This isn't about whether the trust system or the default trust is working or not. We have moved into vandalism / spam / graffiti / advertisements and that is an issue that has to be addressed. BFL is more than attempting to game the trust system they are using it to promote their own products. If you do nothing then it is a green light for everyone to do the same. Good luck policing the system. I suggest a BAN on those doing this will right the ship quickly. http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee106/PFC4L1FE/spam_zps53d24363.png Title: Re: BFL bringing down the trust rating? Post by: jambola2 on April 05, 2014, 08:17:05 AM <3 Dogie.
Every single person who has posted negative feedback and positive feedback as asked by BFL now has a fuckton of negatives :P Title: Re: BFL bringing down the trust rating? Post by: Bicknellski on April 05, 2014, 08:22:43 AM <3 Dogie. Every single person who has posted negative feedback and positive feedback as asked by BFL now has a fuckton of negatives :P They do but they have also spammed Dogie's, Theymos and my trust area with ads for BFL's contest as well as false reports in order to get more people to get into the contest or look at BFL pages. Shouldn't BFL have to pay for adverts? Do the bitcointalk owners like losing revenue? I think there is a lot more the community can do to resolve this and we need to let mods know we don't like spam in the trust system. At this point we all know BFL is a drag on Bitcoin and with a little effort from 1000s of members here we can stand against spamming the trust system. Stand in solidarity with the hundreds of customers that got scammed like Martin Meissner (http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2014/02/new-lawsuit-against-bitcoin-miner-manufacturer-alleges-fraud-negligence/) who is still looking to recover $62,000 from BFL. TAKE A STAND AGAINST BFL'S SPAM (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=558001.0) Title: Re: BFL bringing down the trust rating? Post by: fsb4000 on April 05, 2014, 09:24:20 AM Title: Re: BFL bringing down the trust rating? Post by: dogie on April 05, 2014, 11:41:17 AM Wow, BFL really doing a good job spamming my trust. You look alright to me ;D*cough cough* one of the first times I can say that the default trust system is working in a positive manner. Also if iluvpcs is now default, why wouldn't I be showing green? Title: Re: BFL bringing down the trust rating? Post by: dogie on April 05, 2014, 11:43:10 AM ::) Because you don't understand how the system works. To everyone else you're glowing redder than a christmas tree and bicknellski is neutral.Title: Re: BFL bringing down the trust rating? Post by: BadBear on April 05, 2014, 01:49:37 PM Wow, BFL really doing a good job spamming my trust. You look alright to me ;D*cough cough* one of the first times I can say that the default trust system is working in a positive manner. Also if iluvpcs is now default, why wouldn't I be showing green? Nuke button is a failsafe that bans everyone and sets the server on fire. It's the only way to be sure. It's a spammer tool, ipban + deletes all posts. Title: Re: BFL bringing down the trust rating? Post by: Swordsoffreedom on April 06, 2014, 10:07:18 AM Wow, BFL really doing a good job spamming my trust. You look alright to me ;D*cough cough* one of the first times I can say that the default trust system is working in a positive manner. Also if iluvpcs is now default, why wouldn't I be showing green? Nuke button is a failsafe that bans everyone and sets the server on fire. It's the only way to be sure. It's a spammer tool, ipban + deletes all posts. I'm a bit curious if the whitelist thread was still open in newbie hell what would have happened if you clicked a little bit to the left by accident ^_^ Imagines a wonderful rainbow of hammer based love lol Title: Re: BFL bringing down the trust rating? Post by: BadBear on April 06, 2014, 01:38:34 PM Whitelisting now reduces the time limits on posting/pm's (ie you must wait 360 seconds...), and prevents the user from being nuked (only newbies can be nuked).
Title: Re: BFL bringing down the trust rating? Post by: LittleD on April 08, 2014, 07:47:23 PM Whitelisting now reduces the time limits on posting/pm's (ie you must wait 360 seconds...), and prevents the user from being nuked (only newbies can be nuked). This is good but I believe Josh is right about the Trust system... any thoughts on how we can better IT? Title: Re: BFL bringing down the trust rating? Post by: Bicknellski on April 09, 2014, 12:59:55 AM Trust systems that work well like a judicial system will catch up to BFL long before the forum does much of anything.
It is clear there is spam. We know who is spamming. Nothing is done. This forum continues to ignore and offend the many people who have been defrauded by BFL with inaction. Even spamming the trust system as clearly evidences so far garners no action. What will happen is people will leave this forum because rules currently in place are not applied to cases like these. Doing nothing at this point given evidence is tacit acceptance of the spam going on. http://www.woodlaw.com/sites/default/files/casedocs/2014-04-04%20Complaint.pdf (http://www.woodlaw.com/sites/default/files/casedocs/2014-04-04%20Complaint.pdf) Here is where BFL will finally meet some justice. Code: [b]Count I: Violation of the Kansas Consumer Protection Act, Title: Re: BFL bringing down the trust rating? Post by: Joshuar on April 09, 2014, 09:34:27 PM I would prefer not to receive any POSITIVE trust ratings as a result of this insanity. Please do not ask people to post positive trust for my account. I would rather EARN the trust as a result of my dealings with individuals. Please if you can LittleD remove me from that list in your posts. Nothing is solved by gaming the system to counter BFL's BS. What really needs to happen is Inaba, BFL and BFL_Josh need to have a ban. For what amounts to a spam attempt on the trust system. Even though only 3 people have taken them up on their offer as I guess there are only 3 people on their website the intent was there to FLOOD the system with spam trust. You ban others from this forum for sending PM's you should reward Josh and BFL the same way. Give them a 30 day rest away from the forum for the attempt. +1million, this is the shadiest thing I've ever seen on many forums..Butterfly Labs is obviously just doing this to increase the trust for their own accounts, BFLJosh, BFL, it's so stupid that they're allowed to do this..wow.. Title: Re: BFL bringing down the trust rating? Post by: dogie on April 10, 2014, 09:03:59 PM Now someone in default trust (somehow) has joined in, getting ridiculous.
Title: Re: BFL bringing down the trust rating? Post by: BadBear on April 11, 2014, 12:23:59 AM Now someone in default trust (somehow) has joined in, getting ridiculous. Zillions is in Canaryinthemine's list, so I'd send him a short pm outlining the situation. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=18614 Try to leave out the hyperbole and judgements and just stick with the facts. Title: Re: BFL bringing down the trust rating? Post by: Zillions on April 11, 2014, 12:40:43 AM Yeah I did it number of transactions I've done here but only had a measly one to my name.
I run on Flea-Bay also at least people there leave feedback on successful transactions. Since I had zilch rep any way and every time I try make a deal " you have no reputation" I figured fuck it might get myself a free Monarch in 6 months. Title: Re: BFL bringing down the trust rating? Post by: Fiyasko on April 11, 2014, 12:44:50 AM FFS! I swear that BFL is helping cause the BTC collapse, Seriously...
Bribery False advertising for vapourware False advertising for shipping dates False advertising about comapnies progress on construction Products that cannot make a ROI Constant lies and misleading statements Lawsuits Class action lawsuits Hundreds (maybe thousands) of complaints filed against them Extremely vague if not non-exsistant Refunding system Threatens customers with Termination of service if they speak badly about BFL Forced cancellations of your pre-order Treats the entire bitcoin community poorly Doesn't pay their bets etc etc etc etc Can we ban them yet?! Title: Re: BFL bringing down the trust rating? Post by: dogie on April 11, 2014, 03:15:45 AM Now someone in default trust (somehow) has joined in, getting ridiculous. Zillions is in Canaryinthemine's list, so I'd send him a short pm outlining the situation. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=18614 Try to leave out the hyperbole and judgements and just stick with the facts. Aaah so he was in his 'additional list'. That makes sense, because I couldn't work out how that had happened when they hadn't exchanged feedback. Title: Re: BFL bringing down the trust rating? Post by: Bicknellski on April 11, 2014, 05:20:07 AM Time to move to another forum I guess. Bitcointa.lk anyone?
Title: Re: BFL bringing down the trust rating? Post by: Xian01 on April 11, 2014, 06:49:24 AM Time to move to another forum I guess. Bitcointa.lk anyone? I created an account there, and it appears to be a carbon copy of this sites content. Am I overlooking something ? Title: Re: BFL bringing down the trust rating? Post by: Bicknellski on April 11, 2014, 08:01:08 AM For example I posted this reply from there and deleted the post I made here from there as well. Like it keeps a record of deletions. I mean if the mods are not interested in setting standards... maybe ced will be at the bitcointa.lk? Be interesting to see how a transition off bitcointalk.org would work using bitcointa.lk.
Posted from Bitcointa.lk - #58QZE44bPF0dCJDC Title: Re: BFL bringing down the trust rating? Post by: Swordsoffreedom on April 17, 2014, 06:22:25 AM Time to move to another forum I guess. Bitcointa.lk anyone? I created an account there, and it appears to be a carbon copy of this sites content. Am I overlooking something ? There are a few differences but I think for the most part it is the same Basically a bit faster https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=515932.0 Title: Re: BFL bringing down the trust rating? Post by: LittleD on May 15, 2014, 08:06:59 PM Josh is playing his own game ... he is going by "Pokokohua!" to WIN his own giveaway... wow ~~ what a scam give away wowow...
Title: Re: BFL bringing down the trust rating? Post by: Bicknellski on May 18, 2014, 07:57:32 AM Time to move to another forum I guess. Bitcointa.lk anyone? I created an account there, and it appears to be a carbon copy of this sites content. Am I overlooking something ? There are a few differences but I think for the most part it is the same Basically a bit faster https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=515932.0 Yes and can replace this forum. That is something the community should think about given the lack of movement on scammers that spam. |
