Bitcoin Forum

Question on BTC and other cryptos

This is from being in Canada.
I was wondering if there is a way to further invest with my BTC and other cryptos without and being in legal terms. As in ways that would not be considered a taxable event.
I know crypto to fiat and doing trades now is consider taxable.
Even staking?

What other ways can I further invest with my cryptos without it being a taxable event? Thanks

moving any asset/commodity/security to fiat is a taxable event
but now CEX's have to report events, means the taxman has proof of events which you then hav to declare in your own filings

the only options are to know enough taxlaw to know the loopholes to avoid tax in such events(legal).. or find ways to swap to fiat outside of reporting services to evade tax(illegal)

main tricks are what the elites do
dont 'spend' value(buy/sell), personally lend value as loans are not taxable
its literally a process similar to fiat exchanging, but word it right and create your own paperwork to show it worded as such, it suddenly becomes a double sided personal loan to each other which cancels each other out the same day(paid in full)

speak to an accountant/tax specialist

I don't know the specific case of Canada but I'm sure it happens like in most of the world: the moment you use bitcoin to buy something else, be it cryto, gold or whatever is a taxable event. It does not happen like in investment funds in some countries that you can make transfers without paying taxes until you convert the funds to money.

Move from centralized exchanges to decentralized exchanges. That might help you in trading. But for crypto to fiat trading, I don't think you have any options available.

If you volume is huge, you may consider setting up a company in crypto tax heavens and you can transfer funds from that company to your Canadian account as profit. But I am not sure how the local law works. You may want to get more clarity from a local lawyer.

You can invest in bitcoin on a non custodial wallet, hold it for years and you will earn from it without paying anyone tax to either maintain the wallet you're using or the unit of account for your asset value as the banks do charges for maintenance.


If you're going to opt in for trades, then you are likely to make use of the centralized exchanges in doing that and there is no how you can manage to escaped being taxed from these exchanges, what you should considered is the rate you're being charged, which i think should be more affordable for you than not, except you're not going or make use of a centralized exchange for trade or avoid trading at all.

You're not taxed with the usage of cryptocurrency though, you're taxed when you bought that item with fiat so the only taxable event is the time that there's a fiat interaction. Regards to transfers, I think that in some way, transaction fees in crypto counts as tax but with a lot of extra steps, think about it, the tx fees are used to pay the miners and those fees that the miners get, they convert it to cash and when they do it, they likely buy something for themselves that will benefit them and those stuff will involve taxes.

Let's say someone earn Bitcoin whether it's from giveaway, freelance or jobs, it might be not a taxable event when you directly spend it (no capital gains since you use Bitcoin as a currency). But you still need to pay income tax because it's one source of your incomes.

Although it will decrease the tax you need to pay, but it's not a way to completely avoid paying tax.

The TaxMan is always looking, you can't escape him.


¯\_(ツ)_/¯

What's the best path for HODLers? Because they're making it an easier decision for long term investors NOT to declare anything to the TaxMan.

But if a user's coins went through a centralized exchange, doesn't the government already know, or at the minimum, can know that that user HODLs Bitcoin?

I think the approach is simple because every country wants income from all fronts including the most in the lyrics now. Well. It's simple, if you don't want to deal with the name, tax, just ignore it if your exchange asks to complete the data. It's just that exchanges sometimes make deductions in usually every transaction we make whether you are trading, staking or other always triggers a tax event and that applies if someone's investment is considered to be making a profit.

This just come to my mind as well, maybe if he can afford a flexible tax policies or even a non taxable environment by migrating to regions and countries where this is not a challenge, such could be in El-Salvador or any other country like UAE in the middle belt where cryptocurrency is being allowed to perform under free zone, we could actually spend and make use of bitcoin in some of the countries or region mentioned and have no difficult time from how to use it on a daily basis and to run the economy without government regulation and taxation that could negatively affect us. 

So what happens when you earn some Bitcoin online without buying it and then cash out?

In Canada? IMO, it's stricter than what you're thinking right now and don't you wish to find a way out of legal terms because there's no way to avoid your obligations unless you're ready to face some consequences later on.

For the others, don't patronize someone that's asking for a method to avoid paying taxes because it's unlawful. As for the consequences, be ready for this.

It is still taxable event only if you will declare it to your ITR filing since its you who earned that online. Minus the VAT (tax) you get when cashing out only using a centralized platform (if available), but except when using P2P or decentralized free of charge platform.

TAXED. You can't escape the TaxMan. But you could also play a game of "what if I don't declare my Bitcoin Cash Outs" and see if you win. Probably for small amounts of Bitcoin, Uncle Sam might let that go. But for more than $10,000 which could alert the IRS and AML red-flags, you better be sure that you're keeping the receipts, and you should also know who the counter-party of the trades are?

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

if you use the exemptions in the tax law.. via researching and learning the tax law. even if the taxman is always looking. he cant do anything if your using their laws against them

tax avoidance(legal) is using their law exemptions(such as loans are non taxible)
tax evasion(illegal) is trying to play dumb, ignore laws and hide which is where you will get caught and cant escape

learn/research the difference

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the method is about HOW you "cash out"
learn the exemptions

the masters/elites at tax avoidance(legal) dont just 'cash out'

take elon for instance he didnt cash out his shares to then buy twitter.. he loaned shares to a private bank. the bank loaned him cash. thus tax free to then use that cash to buy twitter. without getting hit by a huge % tax bill for cash

bitcoiners can set up services where by:
people hand over bitcoin and get cash
BUT structured:
they hand over bitcoin as collateral for a loan
the 'buyer' acts as a loan giver of cash. and then claims the collateral as settlement of the loan

in short its still the same end result as giving bitcoin to get cash. but on paper structured in a way that its treated as loans

speak to a tax accountant/specialist for better way to structure it in ways that meet the tax exemption rule. i just dumbed it down for basic understanding

Get the context. None of that has changed the fact that the TaxMan is always looking and finding MORE reasons to take money from its citizens. Plus for ordinary people, what "tax exemptions" could they truly have? They're not like the rich who could set up corporations, and foundations.

BUT there's nothing wrong with taxes IF they spend it for the benefit of their citizens. Finland has one of the highest tax rates, but they have free healthcare, free education, and other benefits.

I guess that you are talking about capital gains tax. AFAIK, buying Bitcoin/crypto isn't a taxable event. Selling BTC/crypto is a taxable event(if you sold at a higher price than you bought). If you are seeking advice about how to conduct tax evasion, then this forum isn't the right place.
Just find a tax accountant in your country and ask him. The other solution is to just move to another country with liberal tax laws and less taxes, or use offshore companies that are registered in "tax heaven" jurisdictions. I live in a country, where there's no capital gains tax, so I'm pretty much OK with my crypto holdings here. I don't know if this is going to change in the future, though.

if you are just cashing out small amounts like $10-$500 per time, then you just use the other exemptions like 'gifts'
if you are moving large amounts then you set up structures or use financial services set up

imagine CEX services but not set up as markets facilitating bids. but instead 'loan services' matching 'borrowers'(sellers) to 'loaners'(buyers)
same end result, different wording
just be sure to do your research to learn the exemptions.. then use them. there are many. but first you need to learn them so go research

You're merely talking about something else. Sure I will do the research, and sure an individual might have exemptions, but nothing from what you posted has changed the fact that the TaxMan is always looking and has always found reasons to tax you more. No one escapes the IRS, and every "exemption" you find, they will mark that as a "red flag" like how they marked something like cold-storage a "red flag".

they dont mark cold storage as a red flag.. you have just heard that from your cult brethren who have their own motives. rather than reading actual regulations

as for people not paying tax, many do have ways to pay less tax, if you learn how
did you know in america you get tax breaks and rebates for many things even at poverty levels of income.. the sooner you learn the better your tax filings will result in paying less tax. but first you should learn them

 ::)


I trust her words more than the words of a liar and a gaslighting-troll like you. After the disinformation that you have spread in the forum during 2016 and 2017 - during the scaling debate, telling newbies mere lies for you and your mentors' self-interests is very laughable. It would also be very laughable if people in the forum would currently trust you more than those people who gave you negative trust-ratings.

how about not trust social media of either twitter or this forum as something you BLINDLY follow
and instead do your own research of the actual regulations

the reason you think your going insane is because you dont do research and instead just believe what people say without checking out the data, code, facts to realise who is right or wrong

for years you have blindly trusted an idiot who has been pumping you full of gas and when someone enlightens you, you get burned and blame the person that enlightens you

so if you dont like like being gas lit as you call it.. stop blind trusting and actually do some research for once
its 2024 google can send you straight to the regulations pages, the guidance for VASPs in seconds. tax guidance. pretty much anything you need to learn can be found fast via searching

stop wasting years reading idiots tweets and just look for the facts of real data, code and proposals..

grow up already, gain an independent mind that wants to learn instead of cry when you get enlightened
stop depending on ass-kissers, who spoonfeed you like a baby

"bitcoinmom" least of her problems is the IRS, her son done alot of dodgy lying promotions of the other network(that doesnt have its own blockchain) you adore and you stupidly think is bitcoin.. no wonder you cry like a baby if you believe her without checking and then get burned when you get enlightened by their lies

IRS do not care about cold storage!!
they care about the conversion to fiat, as thats when they class it as REALISED GAINS/LOSSES


it doesnt matter if you have fiat in a leather back-pocket wallet, stacked under your mattress or in a bank account. you need to declare either way and then explain the category of why you received fiat. EG inheritance, gift, loan, income, investment, private car sell, etc.. which all come with different tax consequences and %.. some come with exemptions, some come with allowances
its upto you to learn this stuff

This is 100% true, I have a friend who makes a decent income, this isn't regards to crypto, it is his business that makes money in fiat, but he doesn't pay a single dollar in tax, how? Well simply dude shows every single spending he makes, from a simple shopping of grocery, to vacations to everything basically, and he makes himself look like he doesn't profit at all, he tries to do everything that way to keep his expenses look a lot.

In reality, he doesn't have that much expense and he just fakes it but this allows him to show all of them as something for the business. I am not saying this exact method would work for crypto people as well, but it just shows that if you are only worried about the tax, then there must be some loopholes regards to tax and an accountant would help you find that.

How about not gaslighting people and manipulating the discussion to make it all about how right you are.

In other topics, you tell people to research, but when they do actually research and present you with the facts, you tell them the facts are wrong. You're not here to teach people. You're merely here to troll Bitcoiners and disinform the newbies into believing your narrative. The big blockers narrative. Plus debating for bigger blocks are not the actual problem, the problem is the lies and misinformation that were used to push that narrative.

windfury, you do not do research you just repeat narratives of doomad

stop crying about how you feel insane and just learn about the topic of taxes..
no one cares that you feel insane. because you are the one making yourself insane by not doing the research on topics. you deserve no pitty when you cant even be bothered to do research on the topics you cry about that make to feel like you dont know what you are talking about..
so stop crying and learn the topics, then you wont fee so inadequate each time. and wont need to sound like an idiot quoting other idiots

anyone can do a word comparison of your posts compared to doomads and see the similarities
how about stop being stuck in your echo chamber of his narrative that has been debunked. and instead just get on with actual research using actual data

learn some tax law for instance, for yourself, independently, for your own benefit of your own funds and your own risks of tax liability..  instead of crying out to be spoonfed by some mentor who wont protect you when you realise the advice they asked you to narrate and copy, causes you problems
they wont protect you when things go wrong for you. no matter how much they currently try to befriend you into their lies
protect yourself do your own research from actual sources
EG learn from the IRS, SEC and FATF guidelines and other such matters related to crypto financial crimes and activities from the actual documentations of the IRS, SEC, FATF

I think you would have to ask people from your region that are into crypto currency.
They would be able to share some thoughts to you so that ulyiu can understand how crypto is being taxed in Canada.
Almost every state have their own laws and regulations so you will have to ask questions on what particular area is taxed in crypto so you can make decisions that would not be to stressful for you funds and holdings. There are regions where cryptocurrency is never taxed so everyone has their opinion.

Stop with your lies and misinformation ser. No Bitcoin Core developer would give you a negative trust-rating if you were truly honest towards the community. Should the BitcoinTalk community trust Andrew Chow and Gregory Maxwell, or should they trust you?

Plus by the way, Roger Ver was arrested in Spain for tax evasion. He didn't pay the "exit tax" after denouncing his U.S. citizenship. No one escapes the Tax Man.

That’s hard. Laws are written rules but we can find loopholes and bends to do something a little illegal if wanted. We can do that because our laws have loopholes but it depends on the country where you are so it’s difficult to not talk about the legal terms

From what I know anything you earn from anything must be taxed.

There is a fee that I have to pay when I make a fiat deposit to a licensed centralized exchange in my country, it is tax. Then from that, the exchange will automatically deduct taxes every time I buy and sell it again, it's like a double-edged sword because basically the government doesn't want to know whether the trader is making a profit or selling at a loss.

Many traders or investors complain about it, they also have the desire to do something to avoid tax deductions. I personally don't know for sure how to avoid that without the government knowing, I mean the bank will definitely know where the budget comes from when we withdraw fiat to the account. The government even orders banks to report bank accounts that have a certain amount of money to be taxed, but to anticipate this, the best choice is to approach a tax expert or learn to find loopholes to avoid being included in the taxable category.

Well I don’t really know what to say anyway and as long as it involved cash flows it will definitely be a taxable event and it happens in different part of the world and it not really a problem as long as it not much tax

People can use DEX and avoid double tax like this on centralized exchanges. What you described is similar with stocks market and stocks broker companies. Stock traders are charged fees and tax for each of their trading order, and profit or loss, they have to pay tax.

Cryptocurrency market gives us more privacy, more freedom and chance to avoid double tax. It can change in future and change will begin with centralized exchanges first. It's difficult for governments to ask Decentralized exchanges to do that but if they seriously want, they can do it. DEX even don't need to know who is a trader on their DEX, if a user trades on that DEX, tax will be deducted for each swap transaction.

It's true what you say, it feels like it's impossible for us to avoid taxes, let alone converting them into currency, the country of course has special rules for this. No one is truly immune to this problem. They must obey what the government has made. We have to know that if someone opens a business like an exchange, of course they have to register their business license with the government. If they fulfill all the requirements and must comply with the rules in force in that country, otherwise they will be subject to sanctions.