Bitcoin Forum

I’m a newb to Bitcoin, been trading for a year or so. I’ve left my coins on the brokerage site, but now I’m looking at other wallets.

I’m running a full node, and want to know about the wallet in Bitcoin Core. Is it a safe software wallet? Is it widely used?

I also bought a hardware wallet, the Ledger Nano X. How safe is this type of wallet?

Which would you recommend of the two? To me, it’s a huge step to secure my coins locally without understanding these wallets.

Thanks!
Mike

You are running a full node and you are asking about Bitcoin Core. I do not think you are telling the truth. Even if you are running an Electrum server or you are using wallet like Armory, you would have known what Bitcoin Core is before running a node.

Ledger Nano is not recommendable if you care about your privacy and if you do not want to share your seed phrase with another party. They will only give you a way to do that instead of them advising against something like it. The wallet secure element is close source.

For a hardware wallet, you can go for Passport. If you need multicoin wallet, you can go for Trezor.

With running your own node you can protect your privacy and help the network be more decentralized, but it's not that you increase your security with running you own node.
Take note that any online device is always prone to hacking. If you want to be completely secure, you should generate and use your wallet on an air-gapped device or go for a good hardware wallet.

Hi, Mike! Welcome to the forum.

It sounds like you are ready to take control of your coins - thats a smart move.  Bitcoin Core is the original Bitcoin wallet. It is perfectly safe to use but, as with most other things when it comes to security, you have to take care of the security of your system. Despite some shortcomings, I believe it is still widely used. As for hardware wallets, they are definitely a safer solution because they eliminate the risk of an infected computer, but I personally would not recommend Ledger devices to anyone anymore because of their questionable moves recently. There are other hardware wallets that are a much better solution. For starters, look at those that have open source software so that anyone can check what they are doing behind the scenes.

Ledger is not completely  open sourced so its  not likely to be trusted completely your  coin rather you should go for Trezor just a s Charles-Tim  replied above you can also check some list from here

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5288971.0
Bitcoin  core is a safe wallet direct  block info  advantage, however  you could  probably  do almost all you want without  running  a full node by using other wallets  like Electrum , Sparrow,  Blue... and you could just use some explorer to view block details.

Hardware wallet is a much more secure wallet if you're  running the right one but that doesn't mean it's 100% safe  you must be careful of running  your HD wallet with random pcs to avoid  getting  compromised on a system with a malware.

I’m not sure what your suspicion is. Bitcoin Core is the node software, right? I downloaded and have been running it for a week or so. The wallet is part of Bitcoin Core, right?

I may be using terminology wrong, but I assure you I’m not a liar.

First of all it is a good thing that you’re running your own full node as that gives you total privacy to actually verify transactions on the blockchain, but as a regular wallet that it’s safety depends on how you use it. If you use it on a device that comes online every time then it is as good as a hot wallet.


A hardware wallet is a great option but your choice isn’t, you should consider going for an open source hardware wallet as stated above or create your own airgapped wallet with any of the open source software wallets


I will recommend the use of a airgapped wallet and then you create it’s watch only wallet and then connect it to your own node to independently verify transactions. Also then back up your phrase or keys properly offline, this will be a better way of safeguarding large Amounts of funds and also protecting your privacy

Some good replies, thanks. I’m going to go look at the Trezor.

Bitcoin core is a software which is used for downloading the blockchain and verifying transactions. It also provides a wallet.
Unless you want to run your own node, you don't have to use bitcoin core. There are many other wallets. Good examples are electrum and sparrow. They are SPV wallets and you don't have to download the blockchain for using them.

I became fascinated with the whole Bitcoin blockchain concept, and wanted to be a part of it. So I decided I would run a node to contribute. The included wallet made it seem even greater, but I wanted to use a hardware wallet as they seem to be more secure.

If you have an extra laptop or PC you can run Bitcoin Core offline(Not full node) and never connect it to the internet and be safe from any attack online and let your current Bitcoin Core full node and use it as your watch-only wallet.

For me, its a way safer but it's a bit technical when making a transaction compared to when you use a hardware wallet directly to your full node. Trezor is a good option as suggested above because it supports multiple coins but if you only want to save BTC then an offline or cold storage wallet is enough.

Storing your bitcoins on brokerage site, online accounts is bad and it is not recommended.

Reminder: do not keep your money in online accounts (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5421039.0)

If you run a Bitcoin full node, it does not make sense that you don't store your bitcoins on your non custodial wallet with which you are running a full node.

Ledger wallet is a hardware wallet but it is close source, not recommended.

[LIST] Open Source Hardware Wallets (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5288971.0)

Bitcoin Core is the most common Bitcoin node software in use. It can use a software wallet but you don't need to if you just want to run the node part of it.

Any online wallet is a so-called hot wallet as it is exposed to the evil of the internet. Depending how able you are to secure the device running the hot wallet it may stay safe but you have no garantee. The problem is that software wallets can't be protected against malware that is able to gain sufficiently elevated rights. If malware is able to run as priviledged account your software wallet is basically unprotected.

A decent hardware wallet should shield your wallet's secrets form potentially infected computers and when you always carefully inspect all transaction details that the software part communicates to the hardware wallet e.g. to sign a transaction, then you're much safer than with a hot software wallet alone. It's very important that a hardware wallet has an own independant display.
You should always very carefully check every output addresses of a transaction before you finally sign the transaction with your hardware wallet. This is to avoid that malware passes a manipulated transaction to your hardware wallet to sign it with.

Personally I don't trust Ledger hardware wallets. Their firmware is closed-source and Ledger lied that your keys can never leave the hardware wallet. With the paid subscription Recovery service the Ledger morons programmed just that into the Ledger firmware (as the firmware is closed-source we don't know if there were other ways for your keys to be extracted from the security chip).

What is my personal setup? I run a Bitcoin Core node and Electrum server so that my wallets that use the Electrum protocol don't have to publish my wallet's addresses to foreign Electrum servers. I use a PiTrezor and a BitBox02 hardware wallet, soon likely also a Krux and Seedsigner hardware wallet (I like DIY projects where a purchase of items doesn't reveal any relation to cryptocurrency usage).

Don't forget: no hot software wallet can be safe enough. Don't do your crypto coin (wallet) stuff on your daily-internet-shit devices. A mobile phone wallet should only hold pocket money equivalents. DYOR! Safe self-custody implies a lot of responsibility and security awareness.

Those Ledger hardware wallets seem pretty secure for storing crypto keys.  But didn't Ledger have some kind of data breach a while back that freaked people out? I can't remember the details, but users were worried their personal info was compromised and  plus I heard Ledger tried to make people pay to recover lost keys or something sketchy like that? I dunno, it just rubs me the wrong way.  As secure as their little USB gadgets seem, a company that pulls that kind of nonsense loses my trust.  Who knows what other stupid greed-driven moves theyll make down the road? I'd keep shopping around if I were you.

As far as I remember the data breach in midth of 2020 leaked likely about 1 million email addresses and possibly something around 272,000 records of personal customer data like full name, postal address and telephone number (non-extensive sources: Cointelegraph (https://cointelegraph.com/news/ledger-data-leak-a-simple-mistake-exposed-270k-crypto-wallet-buyers), Twingate.com (https://www.twingate.com/blog/tips/ledger-data-breach), bullshit letter by Ledger CEO (https://www.ledger.com/message-ledgers-ceo-data-leak)).

Image how bad this is when shady criminals know you have purchased a hardware wallet to secure crypto coin assets and they know your real name and postal address (the latter isn't necessarily your home address, but it shouldn't be rocket science to find this one, too).

You tried to fly under the radar, keep a low profile, didn't brag about having crypto assets and now that. I'd be tremendously pissed if my personal data got leaked like that.

Yes, that's exactly what I was thinking about.  It was a serious security lapse on their part, and frankly, I'm surprised such a company is still in business.

I mean, their core business should be the production of devices and software for safe keeping of user funds and personal data. What an irony!

I have uninstalled the Ledger and bought a Trezor and installed its app software suite. I had no idea that Ledger was NOT open source, so thanks for that! I also didn't know about the data leak!

I think my next step is to transfer my coins from online to my new wallet. Do a "Send" from online to a "Receive" address on my wallet? Once the coin is on the drive, I can remove it and use on my air-gapped laptop?

I'm posting in the Beginners section because, well, I'm a beginner! I do appreciate everyone's help.

Yes since you have set up a new wallet with a new seed phrase and you’re looking to dump the current hardware wallet which is ledger you don’t need to keep it offline again. Just find an online wallet like electrum and then import the ledger seed phrase into it and transfer your funds to the new wallet create on the Trezor wallet ( just copy its receiving address).

Also it is worth knowing that an open source doesn’t mean the wallet is automatically save from getting compromised, it only makes the wallet source code available for the public to see and use. The protection of that wallet still heavily depends on how you use it and also backup its seed phrase. Make sure the backed up seed phrase is offline and out of reach of physical attack.

That's a little confusing. Why do I need Electrum? I can't just transfer the coin from brokerage to Trezor?

God damn, something isn't right with your topic OP, I smell lies here and there.

You called yourself a newbie, and you've been trading for a year or so? That makes you no newbie anymore.

You are running a full node already, like you said, but you don't know about Bitcoin core? Bro! Asking if its a safe wallet and if its widely used is like you stabbing my guts with a knife.

Stop it! All these are made up stories, not real.

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Why asking about if Ledger nano x can be trusted after you've ended up buying it? Why not ask about the hardware wallet before buying it? Stupid move, just imagine if it's a messed up hardware wallet, why aren't people learning?

You can't just decide to do something in your own way when you don't know much about it, you will make stupid mistakes, this forum exists because of people like you and I.

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Your biggest problem is doing something you don't know first before asking questions, you don't understand wallets and yet you went for a hardware wallet, do you even know how to use this wallet the right way?

Forget everything you think you know, start learning first, start asking question before taking actions, it will help you alot.

Avoid Ledger at all costs.  If there is one company I would NEVER want to work with, it is them.  They have a long history of suspicious behavior and blatant lies.  This is besides the customer data base leaks and all of the other crap their customers had to endure.  Such as defective products.

Even Satoshi Labs who create Trezor are not saints either, but they at least have an Open Source device.  The best option for a Newbie in my opinion is purchasing a Trezor and using it in conjunction with Electrum.  Then you can advance to much more complicated ways of storing Bitcoin and earning your Privacy.

Gawd damn! What is it with you people?! Schizo?! Paranoid?! I can see no reason whatsoever to be calling new members, posting in BEGINNERS, to be called a liar by two posters already!!

Sure, I traded Bitcoin for awhile thru my broker interface. Now I’ve decided to contribute, run a node, ask questions, and all I get is grief! I just don’t get it. Getting this much grief in the Beginners section, I’d be terrified to post anywhere else!!

ETA oh, I see. Price is way down today. Everyone a little ancey and on edge? A little irritable? Hey, don’t take it out on me!!

Bitcoin Core wallet is safe until and unless your machine is infected, someway or other,  which could make possible the attacks targeting wallet.dat One of such well known attack is Padding-Oracle-Attack. (https://github.com/demining/Padding-Oracle-Attack-on-Wallet.dat)

Thus, hardware wallets are always preferable in crypto domain, but Ledger Nano X is not the wallet I could trust due to its closed source and team's coming-out about  their potency  to  get custom's SEED.

To be truly safe I would make U-turn and head to the proven hardware wallets one of  which is  Passport .

Yes, I discovered the Ledger debacle 'after' I bought it. Lots of people recommended it, so there you go!

At the moment, I've installed the Trezor instead. I would like to transfer my coin off brokerage into this Trezor wallet. I assumed I could just do that from brokerage to wallet, but now someone said I need to get the Electrum wallet. I'm confused on that part, but feel I should ask no more questions. I'll figure it out.

I see no immediate problem when you use the Trezor Suite to control your Trezor wallet. And if you decide later to connect your Trezor hardware wallet to Electrum, then you can just do it.

Electrum wallet is able to connect to some hardware wallet. Personally I'm quite used and familiar to use Electrum. I've used it as a software wallet and I still use Electrum with my hardware wallets (PiTrezor and BitBox02). If you're happy with Trezor Suite then use it until you want more from a wallet software.

Just make sure you always download a wallet software from the original website and always thoroughly verify that your download is genuine (cryptographic hashes and/or GPG signatures or both). Beware that sometimes the top Google search hits are from fraudulent entities!

Use only open-source wallet software like Trezor Suite, Sparrow, Electrum, Bitcoin Core (I may have missed some others).

Thanks! What more does Electrum offer over my Trezor cold wallet? Do they interact and/or have other functionality than Trezor alone?

For wallets, I had been using Ledger Nano X. But recently I decided to move my Trezor wallet since I need a multi-currency wallet. Hardware wallets are always more secure than software wallets, and for Bitcoin Core, you need to download the full node. So a lot of space is needed to use it. However, for security reasons, I advise using a hardware wallet that is open source. Personally, I like to use Ledger, which has an easy interface, but I leave it because their source code isn't open source. Now using Trezor, though a bit complicated, and not much coin support on Trezor Suit. But we can use other coins from an external wallet, like Metamask. 

Okay, I’ll recap here. I ‘have’ downloaded the “full node” software. I’ve been running the full node for almost two weeks. I’ve got a hardware wallet, Trezor. I want to transfer my coin off brokerage to cold wallet. Can I do that with Trezor alone, or do I need Electrum between them?

I don’t know how to ask any simpler!

ETA I think where some are paranoid is that I used the term “Bitcoin Core” referring to the node software, whereas that actually refers to the wallet software included. I think?!

Your hardware wallet like a Trezor, BitBox02, ... are basically a secure vault for the private keys of your wallet and a transaction signing device. A wallet software like Trezor Suite, Sparrow, Electrum does most of the managing, except for signing a transaction.

Always carefully check all the details of a transaction on the display of your hardware wallet before you sign the transaction!!

If you use a hardware wallet, the accompanying wallet software is basically a watch-only wallet because it doesn't have the private keys. The private keys are securely stored in the hardware wallet which should never let them leak out, no matter what.

Of course, do not save a digital copy of your mnemonic recovery words of your wallet on an online digital device. Write it on paper and maybe also stamp it into steel or titanium washers for fire protection. Analog backup only!!

Your question is sort of incorrect because your Trezor hardware alone can't do much. Why do I use Electrum and prefer it over Trezor Suite or BitBox app? Electrum is a well matured wallet software that has a well enough user interface, no bling bling, offers me full control over transaction fee, I can easily use coin control to precisely decide which UTXOs to use as inputs in a transaction, it's rather easy to use pay-to-many feature to combine multiple transactions into one, even a Lightning wallet and transactions is usable. Electrum probably satisfies more than 99% of my needs and I'm used to it.



You don't need to use Electrum, but you can. To transfer your coins off brokerage to your Trezor wallet, you can use Trezor Suite together with your Trezor hardware.

Thank you! So the Electrum wallet is just a better interface for transactions!

A big source of my confusion is how to buy/sell through these wallet software suites instead of using a brokerage console.

I gotta say…….. after perusing Bitcoin.org website to compare wallets, and learning a bit more, it seems that the best software wallet to use is Bitcoin Core wallet! As long as I can transfer coin from it to the hardware wallet, it should be gold!

Is this a better/more secure approach?

It depends on personal preferences what you consider or experience as a better user interface. It doesn't hurt to try different wallet softwares and choose by own criteria.

In my opinion a software wallet shouldn't offer features to trade coins, maybe with the exception of Bisq which is tailored to facilitate P2P trades. You trade on an exchange of your choice where you know and accept the conditions. Electrum or Sparrow don't have trading features and that is very much fine for me. YMMV...



Technically it should be possible and as far as I've seen there's a piece of additional software that attaches certain hardware wallets as signing devices to Bitcoin Core. I haven't tried it yet and can't comment on this approach.

I run Bitcoin Core and an Electrum server on a Raspi 4B device to connect Electrum, Sparrow and should I use it also Trezor Suite and BitBox app.

Checkout this thread for a possibly wider perspective on wallets: 22 Bitcoin Software Wallets, compared feature by feature (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5465351.0)

Consider also to make yourself familiar with your hardware wallet before you transfer real funds to it. I would play around with Testnet Bitcoins (there are free faucets to get some), practise wallet recovery and everything else necessary.

Electrum and all other wallet softwares are not exchanges, so you cannot buy and sell bitcoin through them, you need to use an exchange for that, and you have to decide if it is going to be centralized or decentralized exchanges.
I don't quite get you, of course you can transfer bitcoins from any wallet software to your address on your hardware wallet.
It is a full node wallet and if you have all the requirements to run one, then that is fine. It is only better and more secure because you run your own node, and you don't have to connect to servers of third parties. That being said, you can keep your coins safe even in an SPV wallet.

I'll elaborate a little more on this. A "light wallet" like Electrum (and Trezor Suite, BitBox app, Ledger Live, ... all are SPV light wallets) doesn't store the blockchain data (currently ~672GiB blocks+chainstate+indexes). It has to submit user's wallet addresses to an Electrum server to obtain transaction history of those addresses and to subscribe to new transaction activity for them to get notified of new incoming transactions.

If you run your own Electrum server (requires a full Bitcoin node and Electrum protocol server) then your wallet's addresses aren't submitted to third-party Electrum servers. If you rely on third-party Electrum servers then those get to know your wallet's addresses. Your coins are not at risk because of this. A third-party Electrum server just gets to know that a request for transaction history from a certain IP address likely belongs to addresses from a certain wallet (I'm no expert in Electrum protocol, so don't ask for details).

Altruistic Electrum servers likely don't care and don't keep such communication data. Blockchain analysis companies that run multiple Electrum servers are definitely more interested in such data because this allows them to attribute addresses to wallets of entities. It's a privacy issue for your used and still unused addresses^{only those already pooled} of your SPV wallet

Well I have no idea about those wallet you just mentioned, but as long as we have our personal decision I think the choice is yours, if you choose to move your assets to new wallet I think is a nice idea, but I most say I have no idea about those wallet,I think you should try and read threads of high ranked members, I guess you can get opinion from them.

If you had read through the thread, and not just reading the OP alone and replying to it, you would have had a little understanding about the wallets mentioned in the OP. A handful of users in this topic have said something about both bitcoin core and Ledger hardware wallet, which are the two wallets the OP mentioned, but you didn't read their post. If you don't read through threads how are you going to learn and have an idea about things like this.