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Have you ever thought about this, what we are trying to achieve in our personal financial life is completely diverge from what the government expects their citizens to do.

We as Individuals always thrive to achieve financial independence in our lives especially someone who is from the average middle person but what the government expects from the middle class is different and is kind of surprising when we give deep thought about it, The Government highly relies on the middle-class tax payers for the money and most of the taxes collected in the form of indirect taxes so that people may not actually aware that they are paying taxes for everything from their salary, fuel, medicine, anything everything has taxes that eat most our earnings.

So as a result we are paying from 10% to over 50% of our earnings just in the form of taxes in one or another way. So one who really wants to achieve financial independence should find a way to reduce their tax pay legally like how the businessmen do.

Or like the bald guy says, we need to find a way to exit the Matrix. :D

governments main income is tax, and tax is not just from citizens income but from their spending of that income, which then leads to a cycle. which if repeated fast enough can earn the government alot more the faster people spend their income(live pay-cheque to pay-cheque)

when you spend. you pay sales tax. retailer then pays corporation tax the retailer also then needs to pay workers which is then income tax
so the circle begins again. the faster you spend the faster the cycles cycle

those hoarding value dont circulate it. which hurts governments income streams.

so yes governments want people to spend money as soon as they get it so it circulates faster and they can get several rounds of chunks of tax per year from one allotment of cash

where as those trying to be less reliant on a 'pay-cheque to pay-cheque' lifestyle want to save and invest their income.

Yes, of course I have thought about it. My goal is not necessarily financial independence but a high level of financial peace of mind, which I have already achieved to a large extent. That is partly achieved by saving and what governments prefer in these casino economies is that you spend. Spend a lot and get into debt, so that you spend your whole life in what is called the rat race.

I am sure every middle class person is fully aware of it. They may not aware of the scale though! Some economists have done a calculation on it in my country. So if we fall under the 30% tax bracket and has a certain type of lifestyle, the calculation shows that we work for 4 months in a years for the government and 8 months for ourselves. I have tried to find the video but unable to do so. I will edit my comment if I am able to find the video. A great explanation they have given.

But yes, we are paying taxes on every single thing that we do. That's why we call it a "middle class trap". Governments also know that fact and that's why personal finance is never taught in a school. because the more we know about it, the better we navigate the uncertainties. Governments do not want us to do that!

We can't really save a lot if our extra income just goes to pay taxes but we can't do anything because that's what is stated in the law, sometimes it's just unfair because we know where the tax we pay goes especially when it's corrupt the government officials sitting, Sad but that's the truth. Imagine, for everything we purchase, there is a tax on it, the kind that you work overtime to earn extra money and save, but what you earned in overtime, will just be deducted from you because of the tax.

Imagine working your tail off, sweating every day, only to watch over half your paycheck disappear into taxes. We all dream of financial freedom, right? But it feels like the game is rigged against us. Indirect taxes are crazy – we earn money, and we're paying just to spend it. It's no accident, though. This system is designed to keep that middle class spinning its wheels. Just enough to survive, but not enough to really thrive. We're always running but never getting anywhere.

If you want to break out, I mean, really break out, like take the red pill and see how deep this whole thing goes; it's not just about working harder. It's about playing the game smarter. Understanding the rules inside and out, the way the guys at the top do. Why play by their rules when you can rewrite them? There are ways to use the system in your favor, to build wealth that sticks. Doesn't this whole setup just feel wrong? Shouldn't the system work for us, fuel our success, instead of holding us back?

The system is designed and programmed to take from us.
I don't think there is a way to beat the system legal unless the individual goes off-grid and starts living the mountains or forest.
As long as the individual is receiving the government currency, a portion of it must return to them..safe to say we spend our years working for the government. There's no escaping from it.

Yeah that's the reason that my opinion about this is very strict. These government system will no longer last at the end of this century. People are so fed up from the decisions that they're making especially if we see the Palestine issue and the reaction of students and people in USA.

It's only an example but in general many decisions are made just for the political wars going between leaders so public is getting fed up by this.

It's why macroeconomic and microeconomic are completely different.

In macroeconomic, savings is bad, spending makes economy growths.
In microeconomic, savings is good, spending makes you poor.

I would say the government relies on "uneducated people" instead of "middle class people" because rich people should be taxed higher than middle class people, but they can pay the same amount or less than middle class people because they're educated.

The bald guy is damn correct because school make you become government's slaves and they didn't teach to become rich.

many people do beat the system.. you just have to understand the system first.

the method to beat the system is to learn the tax laws to know how to reduce the amount of tax you pay*. and then also organise your spending habits whereby you keep enough income to then invest. whereby the investments then encourage bigger returns FOR YOU which you then again mitigate the tax implications of those returns. so that your wealth grows rather then your expenditure to the government

*learn when you are suppose to pay(avoid late penalties/fines/costs)
*learn what you are suppose to pay(avoid overpayment)
*learn any exemptions, reductions

Aside learning all about the tax laws in your country, you also mentioned investment. Do you consider buying stocks and shares are investments that can exempt someone from paying taxes?

Yeah, but if you look at people who are trying to get away from paying taxes, regardless of your status, if you are found and found guilty, it's jail time for tax evasion. And this is what we call reprogramming from the government. Maybe there are wise individual who become rich and then find ways to get around with paying high taxes like the billionaires that we have in the US with all their money foundation. And I think the best weapon is still investment and learn how to fight inflation and keeping our money in let's say crypto to grow and achieved our financial independence and freedom. There could also be taxes to pay in some countries. But for some which is in the gray area, maybe they can take advantage of it right now before their government imposed such taxes on cryptocurrencies.

Buying stocks may not be enough to get exception when it comes to tax paying but once you reached certain position like holding stocks worth of million then you can take a loan using those stocks as collateral instead of cashing which you have to pay capital gains tax, the loan money can give you the access to money and lot of benefits when it comes to tax paying. Well this is super deep subject that may need actual knowledge but it's just overview of how it works.

The government does not want the average class and low class citizens to grow from that level to the next level, and this is why they have come up with taxes to eat up their income through various taxes, so that they will remain in that level and live from paycheck to paycheck. The government uses taxes to rob us of our hard earned money legally, and there is nothing one can do because they have put it in the law.

Under normal circumstances, the taxes used by the government should come back to us in the form of all public services. Such as the comfort of roads, parks, and others. That's why taxes are imposed, namely for the construction and maintenance of it all. However, this also keeps money flowing, because after all the government needs tax payments to pay existing employees. Well, as good citizens, we need to follow the regulations that have been made. If you want to improve your finances, then increase your income, even though your tax payments will also increase. As long as you still live in a country that applies taxes, you have to pay them.

This is why it's best to look for a company that will help you in terms of your taxes. There are companies that offer you to work for them as a consultant and not a regular employee, but you get all the perks and benefits of a regular employee while only paying a significantly lower tax. I know this is not really applicable to all countries, but this is something that works for me that ends up me paying lower taxes and keeping a bulk of my salary to myself.

There's also the route of doing business, but taxes are much bloodier in that department compared to working for an employer. At the least, you can dictate all things you want to happen on your business and you get the rest of the time to yourself that you can use for other things that will make you money.

All in all, taxes are really something that is unavoidable, but there are ways to pay just the minimum amount for you to enjoy your hard-earned money. You just have to really look for ways to get that lower tax payment and keep a low profile in order for the government to not go after you and your money.

The payment of tax is really necessary for the development of  the country. But in most cases, taxes paid by the people are not regulated, they pay more than what they should pay ordinarily. It is sad to note that the same citizens who pay taxes directly from their incomes and indirectly when they purchase any item, cannot enjoy certain services like medical and academic services in the country due to high charges. This is day time robbery carried out by the government to its people and it is pathetic. Incomes are being taxed and what is left after charging personal income tax is still taxed when you purchase a commodity or enjoy any service. Every government claim they want the best for their citizens but in real sense, everyone is working for the government. They collect a huge part of our earnings and leave very little for us to fend for ourselves with.

Always assume that the only person that wants to fulfill your every desire is yourself, even your family is not exempt from this, as even if they may want the best for you, what they think about how this can be accomplished could be slightly different than what you think, so I find it natural that governments not only want you to spend all the money that you earn, they want you to get all the debt that you can so they can get as much taxes out of you as soon as possible, a posture that I think in part explains why carrying so much debt has become so common nowadays.

Unfortunately most companies didn't care with that, actually they don't have to care with that especially if you desperately need a jobs and your jobs are easy to be taken by other people, I don't think you have bargaining powers.

This is more like about the workers and the companies, not the countries.

Since most of people are average, they can't do anything except agree with all the rules.

Well the government will not let us be free from the tax burden. Because the government gets paid from this. I personally don't mind any of that. As long as the government truly maintains its government function in protecting the community and serving the community very well. And most importantly there is no corruption in it. because in fact if a government is free from corruption then tax money from the community will be enough to prosper the community itself. Because as you said, we pay taxes on everything we even use, eat and make. Vehicles, clothing, premises and food are all taxed. And the government actually also has other income, such as from the management and utilization of natural resources in the country itself, such as mining and the like.

I mean, yeah, we're paying a lot in taxes, and people often don't realize that they're paying taxes because some of them are just included in prices (like VAT), so they don't realize how much they're paying. But I think that taxes are okay because I do believe that we need public services, like cleaning the streets, public schools, basic healthcare. In my country, there's actually much more covered as public services, as most universities are public and offer free tuition to a very significant amount of students, and we also have public (state-owned) transport, even a couple of banks. So, to me, it makes sense that taxes should be paid, as there are a lot of things that come "free" (from taxpayers' money) in the end.

That is also true. Most companies could care less about their employees and their wages. A lot would even go so far as to reducing the benefits of their employees in a legal manner, something that is no longer a new practice to majority of huge companies in the world.

Though that is the case, there are still a few companies out there that offer such flexible tax setup for their employees. Again, you just have to find them and you can look for that information on job boards, forums, or even on interviewers themselves. It's not an easy task, but it's worth the shot.

I would say that it is kinda of impossible to find a way to exit the matrix here since we are all controlled and managed by the government I mean we have a government in every country and that is just how it works even in different countries they all have their own government so we can't really escape paying taxes not to mention the fiat money system is the best Ponzi scheme ever, earning money where the government could just easily print money whenever they want, we are the one paying the price by inflation. I mean probably you could if you're gonna do it illegally, in my first job the company didn't really pay taxes, there was no official receipt etc. Since the owner has a lot of connections etc. I guess you could it just wouldn't be legal.

The thing here is we are the ones that needed to adjust since there was just nothing that we could do, I've realized a lot of things because of the low income, if you really wanted to have financial independence you need is have a financial foundation and knowledge on it, One of my favorite quotes that I apply is, do not buy anything that you can't afford. Sometimes there are just things that we buy that we can't really afford that is why we are having a hard time with our financial things. I learned from a financial advisor to save a lot like 40% of your income, which is going to actually be a good thing in the future, I invested a lot and now I can see that it is already working in my financial achievement, Having the financial foundation like savings, emergency funds, insurances, investments, etc. is actually the best advice and would make your cryptocurrency investment long term hold easy.

There is always a way and in fact these policies were made decades old so finding a loophole will be so much easier than ever. First of all we need to understand how things work where we live which will be completely different in another country so get yourself familiar with the laws, taxation and everything that's almost available to learn for free.

Going under the table, breaking the laws, and still operating the company is kind of evading tax which is possible too but we can't be sure when things will change but the rich guys are actually taking advantage of doing everything legally so no one can question them because they do everything by the books.

Adjusting, reducing all our expenses is typical mindset of an average person so we hinder out expenses for now and this is never-ending story so at one point there will be no place to shrink anything unless we act on it.

Sometimes I'm forced to believe that most governments do not really want their citizens to become very exposed financially so that they can remain under their control. For instance, just as you've mentioned, People who are not financially expose think they are not paying tax whereas they're the ones who pay tax on every commodity they get and because of this lack of knowledge the government keeps making a lot of money off them. The financially exposed find ways to control their taxes to ensure that the government is not taking too much from them.

It has nothing to do with whether you pay taxes directly or not, if you buy any of the items you mentioned above, you won't be able to enjoy medical services? I think this has a different connection, tax is medical tax or medical? Not all of the world's inhabitants cannot avoid the name tax, taxes collected by the government in every country certainly have benefits for their people, those who rob these irresponsible individuals must be dealt with firmly. Of course, the government is obliged to facilitate health or medical care for people who cannot afford it by subsidizing it and returning tax money to help them. Likewise with academics which are built or facilitated by the government, if the lower classes who cannot afford it want to go to school, the government facilitates this by competing at the national level in that country.

The government knows how to do this without one even having a thought of it , and the truth is that we can't run away from it. People must pay taxes directly or indirectly and their is nothing we can do about it, that's why this should be a reason why we need to try our best to be financially no matter what we found ourselves doing to be able to pay for this taxes at all time.  Well, this is just in a way support the government in return because I do not think if they can do without it. This is a thing that have been in existence long time ago, personal financial goals is just the solution for individuals not to feel it as burden.

Bald guy hahaha, nice term, are we forbidden to use his actual name here!! just in case. Well, I was also having the same thoughts that what government actually wants from us, and what we are doing. Although my thoughts were not fully like yours but 90% they were same. I was thinking that most of the citizens in my countries from a long time are not paying taxes of their business, properties etc. etc. And I learned how US or other tier 1 citizens are paying taxes. I realize that these citizens are earning for themselves and earning another part of the salary for there country which then makes the economy of the country more strong.

But what my country citizens are thinking is totally different, they wants to earn for themselves only, they want to fill there pockets only and don't want to contribute to the economy of the country. The middle man is the one who actually pays the tax, because of lack of resources in higher departments and lack of knowledge. I think paying tax to the country is a good think and also saving some funds in taxes legally is a good thing too and I support that idea.

But what I don't support is people who don't want to pay the tax at all and use illegal ways.

Tax should be given to the government nothing can be done by the government alone. The government is thinking about the people's expectations and these things and making changes. This is what people want to hear from an elected representative government see in the areas where changes are needed the government is making changes in those areas. The government has to resolve the crisis the government has started taking steps on issues that need to be resolved right after the elections. There are many political diplomatic and economic challenges ahead.

And how would you exit the matrix? By taking the orang pill? Uh-uh, it's also taxed, Neo.

I'm not sure in other countries but the taxes here in mine are already overlapping. And it's impossible to avoid them. Taxes are already deducted from your salary even before it reaches your wallet. And every time you spend, there are also taxes you're paying. Whether you're buying a pack of salt or riding a cab, you're paying taxes. Not to mention that your money itself is subject to inflation.

I'm afraid one can only escape taxes if one lives like a hermit.

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Honestly, we have seen so many companies who fired tens of thousands of people all at once just because their quarterly results were bad, we have seen companies literally get rid of whole operations, just to make sure that they have a short term income to show for the shareholders. That is what matters for big companies nowadays, they only care to make sure that shareholders are happy, if you are making shareholders happy then nothing else matters at all.

Even small companies look at these big companies and try to mimic them, trying to just fire people whenever times get tough. The reality is that if you stick with your people when times are tough, then they will stick with you when the times are great and you will make a lot more money that way.

If you use any of the public infrastructures and you benefit in some level to the programs that are hosted by the government and you think that your government is doing just fine and they're not incompetent and corrupt then paying your taxes is probably a fine thing to do, it should always come with your financial goals, after all, it's only fair that you give back to your society one way or the other when you're getting a lot of money. Another thing that you can probably do is to give back through your taxes. Unless you're a goddamn money laundering genius or you're part of a money laundering conspiracy, you can't really avoid taxes, as the saying goes, there's only two things that a man can't avoid in their life: death and taxes.

Working overtime and earning extra is still better because if not, your regular salary will be the one who will get deducted. You can go home with a lesser amount of money and your family will be sad this time.

We are able to see the tax that we pay, I mean if we look around us like for example the concrete street that we are walking/crossing is already an example of tax expenses but if it's already implemented before and there are no new implementations yet from the newly elected government official, then that might be the time to suspect them of corruption. I think we still can do something and that is by reporting them to the other officials or organizations.

This is not just for the middle class, do you think the elite or the rich don't go grocery shopping, buy medicine, or get their treatments done from medical facilities within the country? They do, and as you said, all these things have inclusive taxes that go to the government, and there is no way for anyone to avoid that because when you buy something to get a service provider to do something for you, they charge you more than what they need for their work or the product being sold because they have to pay taxes on its sale as well.

Anyone literate enough to understand simple economics would know this happens and that we pay taxes on almost anything starting from our salaries to our purchases. In some countries, cryptocurrencies are not regulated which makes it tax-free when you are earning cryptocurrencies and not declaring it because there might not be any clear law about it, but in countries where there are regulations about it, even cryptocurrency transactions are taxed.

So, it's something we have to live with, unfortunately.

Ordinarily as an individual in a middle class, you wouldn't feel much of the impact on the tax collected from you, because that is what is needed to keep the system functioning, especially for developed countries that has a functioning social structure.
If people decide to reduce the tax they pay, is more like saying there shouldn't be enough money for the government to use and run the system, because those are the revenue government collect to give us electricity, healthcare, and other infrastructure. However there are other ways of gaining financial independence.

I think "financial peace of mind" is for me a much better term for it if we are trying to say financial freedom or independence. Though taxes will only apply to fiat assets or centralized assets in general I think decentralized assets will exempt us from paying much more taxes which is good for us but not for the government as we all know it will hurt them a lot if crypto income in a specific country is way to high "if" that is the case. Maybe this is also the reason why government has strong regulation with decentralized assets like crypto because they may not be able to collect the fair amount of tax for the good of the country or their own purses. 😆 Just kidding.

Tax reduction is a legal means to pay lower fees but to evade it is a crime. However, despite the numbers of taxes that we pay, it also means we are generating income from such means. Therefore, it shouldn't stop anyone to establish a business because of numerous tax payments. You are not taxed if you are not earning from a particular taxable source and diversification is always a better way to financial independence.


Are you talking of tax evasion? This is the illegal means that the bad guys use to run away from paying taxes but that also has a way to stop government achieving its goals. If you don't pay your taxes then government will not have sufficient IGR to take care of certain exigencies. You can have tax reduction if properly discussed and not to steal from the government or pay reduced fee to certain people in the tax office who don't remit to government tax purse.

What does "financial independence" mean? You don't make big money without the help of the state, whoever makes big money depends on the state, because the state is what protects him and his wealth. The state takes care of its rich people by trying to kill critical thinking in everyone... children learn how to be humble and obedient in school (like in the army), and the state expects everyone to blindly listen and even more importantly to blindly trust the state and do whatever state says.

So we don't get out of the matrix with the help of money, for that we need a mind that can think for itself and question things, and not blindly accept everything that is served.

That's how countries work. You are welcome to look some country that doesn't rely on their people to build the infrastructure from normal taxes. Just don't be surprised when you need to pay high import duties, or something like that because those countries need to fund themselves as well. When you pay taxes, you are ideally paying for working infrastructure, stability and safety.

Tax avoidance is risky, costly and immoral. And it doesn't make any sense if you aren't earning enough anyway. And best part is, you never were independed, as you rely on the infrastructure of the country you were born in. Depending where you live, they can provide different kind of things, but at least ideally it's security, by laws and army. And those things cost money.

But I think of taxes as a good thing. I just wonder how citizens of certain cope with really large taxes to pay. However, without taxes, the government may barely have any money. And that will affect the country at large because what then can the country afford. In most cases these taxes aren’t always that big that paying it is impossible, so I think it’s something we should all comply.

It should be good but realistically speaking it is simply not.

There is too much corruption in our government that taxes are simply not being used properly. Instead they are being stored in the pockets of government officials.
You should worry more about people that have only started earning a little and immediately the government is taking from them while millionaires have no difficulty evading taxes.

I think it depends on what “government” you’re referring to. In top countries, despite the possibility of corruption, the money from tax is being used to develop and keep the country in order. This is why people visit top countries and are stunned at how good it looks, the tax made it possible. Anyone can evade tax if they know how. Some people think it’s not worth the risk, while others may think otherwise, but it’s not a big deal (depending on the country, again) considering that it is percentage based so you only pay when you’ve made some money.

I really don't know from which country are you, but same is happening in my country as well. The government of my country is even doing as if he doesn't have any way than to be leveling taxes on companies, industries, and factories. making the price of things high every day. these taxes can indeed not be avoided because as a monthly salary earner, it will be included in your salary. that is, before you receive alert, your tax will definitely be deduct. the only thing that you see is your Ballance which remain after the removal of everything. And even if you are not receiving monthly salary, you are going to take bike or you will buy something from market, companies, industries and factories. They will add it to the price of their materials. which they will collect from you.

Not only paying of tax is my problem, but after tax payment is made, the money is used for what?
I don't know of your country or society,  but mine, the government will say pay your tax, pay your tax. which I am very sure it will be paid either directly or indirectly. by force or by wish, Government will definitely remove it if they want to. this is because they have law enforcement agency. If you don't want to pay, you will be forced to do it. and they level it on companies that produce what you buy. And after paying it which I think should be used to repair our roads, build school and hospitals, we are not seeing much. from them. That is my problem with them.

Each person can only talk about the situations that he has experienced or that he knows about, so I don't agree with you, especially in the country where I live, corruption is so common that rich people don't even pay taxes. Only the poor have to pay and the rich get tax waivers or they get it waived. The other thing I don't understand is what the point of Taxes is on every little thing, be it food or clothing, that has made the poor man's life hell. Water, electricity, gas, flour, sugar, rice, leaves, taxes on everything else, government taxes are separate.

My question is how can the poor people pay so many taxes when they are not able to provide basic food and drink? And those who say that the rich pay taxes and the poor also pay taxes, the rich pay taxes on the little necessities because they don't care, they have so much money that if a little even if money goes out, it won't matter much to them, but for the poor man who barely earns enough, it is very painful to pay these taxes or to pay double the price. The government should make all kinds of facilities tax-free for poor people so that they too can live and rich people in every country should pay legal taxes regularly instead of evading them to help run the country and help the poor people.

Force if last countries politicians and the the controller of civilized country always which way for the Citizens but a country that is not civilized the politicians who is the management of the government don't think positive to the citizen based on it is their own mentality so I believe that government is the problem some country have and there are the originator of country having economic crisis

I get the point you’re making but what I see as well is that the tax isn’t a fixed amount. It’s depending on what you’re doing, and it is usually a small percentage of what you’re spending. I get the frustration of paying the tax and it ends up in the hands of corrupt leaders, but the sad truth is that nothing can be done. Instead, you can hope for a better leadership in your country so the tax is used to better your lives as well.

In all countries around the world, all the things people buy have a tax payment that is deducted from them. That is why there is no other source of income that the government of each country can obtain. The problem is that there are other countries that levy very high taxes on what their citizens buy.

That's why it's good that we can get our aim from financial problems so that even if there is an expectation that the government will deduct from our assets, we still have many sources of income that can be obtained somehow.

The middle class are often the ones that suffer the most because of the high taxes they need to pay, as the rich have all kind of exceptions and loopholes they can abuse so they can pay way less than a middle class citizen, while the poor not only do not pay taxes but they even receive support from the government, so those that are middle class have to figure out a way to pay less taxes legally, if not, then they may never improve their economic status.

Tax is one of the problems that sometimes cannot be avoided but indeed I think it must exist because after all, one of the countries that will develop in terms of facilities or infrastructure is those who are very selective in recording taxes and that cannot be denied.
In addition, I still feel that taxes are used as one of the situations where we are like giving something for the sake of our survival in a country so that taxes will definitely continue to exist.

The size of the tax is also of course following the level of the economy in the end and when we live in a big city then surely the tax will also be greater because indeed what we spend in the end we ourselves feel (ideally like this) although there are not a few corrupt countries especially for their tax problems but as long as we are comfortable with the infrastructure and facilities provided then indeed it is not a problem.

The problem is that sometimes high taxes are not accompanied by the facilities provided so surely we will not accept high taxes but the income to us is not appropriate in the end which makes us object to paying taxes.

 :D lol ... But on a serious note the government does feed on the dreams and goals of the people. Can't remember where I read this but, someone said, "In order to become rich, one would have to reduce their taxes & liabilities and increase their assets. In order to escape the matrix, you have to do the same. People work their whole life just to earn a pension afterwards but barely ever live a fulfilled because they sold themselves and their dreams to their country.

You have to learn to put yourself first, even if you're a government worker. Have side hustles, try to save, buy assets, and invest more. Your personal financial goals should matter more to you.

With everything going on, I believe it's always going to be the middle-class taxpayers who will do the heavy lifting. Most of the people at the top probably have created ways to reduce their taxes so they could have more. I believe that the percentage going on to the government is way higher in terms of overall payments.

I believe this is okay as long as you are getting the benefits that a government should have and it doesn't inhibit or stop you with anything else. You are getting the proper care. But if not, it shouldn't be continued or something.

Truth is you cannot escape the system of taxation.

The ones who can are the ones who are super rich, government dont really care about them. The middle class suffers the most. The way I see it, taxation is a necessary evil which you cannot stop and hence have to learn to live with.

Thus spend only what is needed and budget your spending properly. Cut down on useless stuff like alcohol and fast food. Stop watching netflix and move back to bittorrent. These are only examples but can be applied in reality.

Use the search button to find a tax-free country that seems suitable for you to live in. Because if you have to find a way to escape government surveillance, you will always have problems. In fact, the government does not only depend on the middle class, taxes are imposed on all its citizens. In my opinion, the government is actually trying not to impose large amounts of tax, is it true that in your country tax is only 75% of income? or not?
Avoid taxes just because you want to achieve true financial freedom as I said living in a country that exempts taxes, namely a Middle Eastern country. However, has its citizens been proven to achieve 100% financial freedom? certainly not. So this is a matter of sobriety, not a misconstrued obsession with financial freedom.

In developed countries, they have a legal system that is really firm and targeted compared to developing countries and poor countries, so discussing taxes, I agree with you, it will be different in each country.

I take the example of the country where I live, Indonesia, here corruption is very mushrooming, it is even very difficult to stop it, because the punishment for those who misappropriate taxes is very blunt.

Therefore, when you are able to make money comfortably and pay taxes obediently, you have contributed enough to your country (regardless of whether the country you live in is corrupt or not).

Citizens want to live without working but also want to own everything. A luxury car, a big house, a yacht, a young spouse and a huge passive monthly income to pay for these expenses. That's the final goal of every ordinary citizen.

The government on the other hand, wants you to work forever till you die. They don't want you to get retired and live on passive income because then you'll become a free-rider. The other people who still work will be paying for whatever you consume.

If you are living off of passive income, congrats. You have beaten all of your enemies including the end-game boss "the government" and won the game that's called "life". You can now happily raise your middle finger into the air and scream:

"FUCK YEAH" .!.

This is the first time I've seen someone come up with the idea of being financially independent by avoiding taxes, LOL. As far as I know, in developing countries or third world countries, most people do not like to pay taxes and find ways to avoid taxes. Simply because they think the government is too greedy, the government is both corrupt and wants to tax without thinking about people's lives. Therefore, many people always find ways to avoid taxes and that thinking is not necessarily wrong because finding people's income is not as easy as in other developed countries. Furthermore, I see that even when paying taxes in full, people do not enjoy full citizenship benefits, so people have the mentality of not wanting to pay too much tax.
But we also need to note that paying taxes is an obligation and a way for us to contribute to building our country's economy, so tax evasion also contributes to negative impacts on the domestic economy.

By the way, I bet OP that even if he successfully evades taxes, he cannot be financially free if he does not find a way to increase his income and assets.

What we earn and what we spend in our personal lives are included in direct and indirect taxes. In this way the government earns income which it spends or is supposed to spend on the development of the country i.e. the needs of the people. But to a large extent it appears (especially from my country's point of view) that we are getting none of the fair benefits we deserve through direct and indirect taxes paid. That's when our troubles begin. So in such a situation, we want to find many ways to reduce taxes and implement them.

Government relies on the tax of every citizen in the country and not just just from the middle class. Perhaps not only the rich man or the business men that knows how to avoid tax by some loop holes in the system. Even the middle class too who gets to knows the loop holes to avoid taxation are doing it and skipping to pay some tax. Businesses starting from Partnerships, Corporations, sole proprietorships and limited liability companies are paying tax and still paying their employees who also in turn pay tax. You can see that tax is coming from everyone in th country. If one person can avoid tax through any means, another person that knows the same means can also avoid tax too.

Let’s all be honest it’s the middle class who suffer the most from taxation. There are loopholes but it will only exist if you have so much money and ability to transfer assets from one country to another. Meanwhile the middle class people have to actually pay lest the government comes knocking on their doorsteps.

I understand the whole corruption concern and I’ve seen a couple of replies talking about it but I hope you know that your country wouldn’t be what it is today if it wasn’t for tax. It doesn’t matter what country it is, tax has a huge role to play. And if you pay attention, the countries with higher tax are the ones that are usually luxurious. So the country actually needs the money despite some people who hinder it getting to where it should.

Yea you are making sense, I have watch closely most decision that government make in regards to tax has never favour the citizens, rich people understands this and that's why they default sometimes, the government is our problem, the citizens should grow in that reasoning so that when they work and receive salary for a period of time, they will save and invest in something meaningful if not they will be stagnated financially because of the government tax policy.
The major reason why the government treat its citizen like this, I because they know that if taxes are not that high many individuals will challenge them politically so for this not to happen taxes are used to silence some people.

Paying taxes to government is very important for the country to function effectively, without taxes, it won't be easy for them to pay and maintain different sectors like the armed forces, public servants in ministries that doesn't generate funds, and provision of basic amenities. We cannot overemphasize the importance of tax in any country, but where problem lies is tax evasion, where individuals, companies and organizations will not pay tax or not declare their full assets to be taxed, also where corrupt government officials will embezzle public funds including taxes.

A banal conflict of interests between the feudal lord and the peasants: the former wants to receive more taxes, and the latter wants to give less.

The problem with taxes in most cases is not that they are collected, but rather the misuse of taxes (spending for other purposes).

Regarding taxes on cryptocurrencies.
Doesn't the following seem strange to you? Governments want to tax profits from the sale of cryptocurrencies. Ok. The investor takes the risk, but shares the profit with the government. But why then does the government not compensate for losses from investing in cryptocurrencies (not all investments are profitable)? If they encroach on part of the profits, then, in fairness, they bear part of the risks. :) Otherwise, why would we pay them taxes?

The true tax figure is closer to 50-60% in most countries, and these taxes may be hidden (disguised as various deductions from both the worker and the employer).

One way to legally reduce business taxes is to change the business jurisdiction to countries with a low or near-zero tax rate (for example, Dubai).

You can't log out of the system. We'll have to play by their rules (attempts to find a legal way to reduce tax deductions are proof of this).

I would like to start my reply with a question, whether the collected tax money is spent in any ways at all? Cuase most of them are going into the pockets or under the table of authorities.

The modern-day taxation system is made after inspired by Leech (a parasite that sucks blood) I guess, they will suck from us as much as we have left to give and when we don't have anything then they don't care at all but for the sake of stunt, they have capital loss carryforward system which depends on the country where we live in.

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I want to reply to many others too but don't have that much patience to write like JJG since this is kind of wide topic that should be covered with long and clear explanations.

The fact that someone who makes median income could pay more taxes per year than some billion dollar company is the proof of this. Billion dollar company could just show some insane expenses, which for example apple most recently did, had like billions in taxes they had to pay, but showed debt as a reason for not paying, many companies do this, even small ones, they show income (revenue) and then they show their debt and expenses, and that means they do not have to pay a single dollar in taxes if their revenue is lesser.

At the same time, when you are a worker, doesn't matter what job, if you are just employed, your salary automatically gets deducted with tax when you have to pay that, meaning some ordinary person may pay more than million even billion dollar companies.

There is no doubt that tax enhances the image of a country by promoting everything from infrastructural development to military development scientific research and cultural activities. Again among direct taxes luxury goods are taxed at a higher rate and equality in taxation is provided. So each of us should play a supportive role in these great works ‍especially for political leaders. Adherence to minimum courtesy in cases of corruption (sounds ridiculous but in the context of our country). Even then the development of the country will accelerate and the number of complaints will decrease.

That is true, the middle class are the ones that contributes the most to the economy. While we're not ignoring what the rich people does, generating jobs and giving employment to the other people.

But they have ways to minimize their taxes. Whilst for the average and middle class people, they have no means to do that.

And what they do is work work work until they get tired and exhausted realizing how much they have contributed to the total economy of our countries.

What an unfair classification towards humans.To live comfortably,there are certain procedures to watch out for,there are all kinds of financial goal that someone has to set for themselves,also,feeling financially secure and comfortable,and being able to financially help a friend or family member is one of the best feelings to a large extent.

Get financially educated,be available with knowledge and financial intellect,develop long lasting financial skills that'll better your financial future against all odds.Pay attention to every signal whether good or bad that you'll encounter,tolerance,risks managemente.t.c,and take take the bold action to achieve your goals.

These two things will certainly help each other, for those who have a lot of wealth they still need middle class people to do what they can't do and for the middle class they can get jobs that give them income.

I agree with you, there are indeed some rich people who avoid taxes, but this is absolutely impossible for the middle class and in this case it will certainly make the rich get richer and the poor can only get an income that can meet their needs.

Yes, most that are in the workforce are middle class and that's why they're important to a country's economy.

Well, the middle class don't have a way out there but with the wealthy people, they know the ins and outs about taxation and that's why they became rich.

They're doing it legally and we don't know about those that does illegally.

But you should know that if everyone was to avoid taxes, it can bring down the countries economy because there’ll be not enough money to handle/maintain the country. There will always be bad players who either are evading taxes or those who are stoping the taxes from getting where they should, but don’t think it’s okay to be so.

The Government is always 10 Years behind Everyone else.

Really! Taxes rise, but wages remain the same. But if there were no taxes, there would be no state. After all, the money you pay is spent on many areas of human life: medicine, the army, road improvement and the construction of municipal institutions. I would like to believe that taxes are spent in full on all these areas. Because the most pressing problem of our time is corruption.

Escaping on paying up taxes might be sounding so cool but we do know on where these taxes would be applied on which it is really just that for the betterment of a certain country or into its economy or something that do talks about progress and other relevant or correlated things. The main issue only here is that on how those government officials would really be making use of those taxes in the right way or not really that being corrupted or misused in other way. For me, i dont mind on how many % that they would set out because anyone would really be charged up into that and we do know
on where it would be applied then its better not to make it as a big issue.

The thing here is that if you are making some business then there's no way that you would be able to avoid taxes. You would really be still needing up to pay or would really be that
deducted. Instead on stressing yourself on how to avoid, then it would be better to find for more income source so that you wont be minding that much.  :D

That is such a strange way to look at the government, like they are your opposite or your enemy. I don't think politicians are perfect by any means, however in many countries the government offers lots of services that become much cheaper when the collective population pool resources. You talk about taxes as if nobody should ever contribute to anything, yet they allow your country to remain free with an army, it pays for the police force or fire services which often keeps people safe and the upkeep of vast amounts of infrastructure to keep people moving. It's obvious that very few people will actually reach financial independence, at least until they finally reach retirement and hopefully have been saving enough through their lifetime.

The middle class does not have the ability to hide and escape like the rich. Even if the country is full of corruption they have to pay taxes to the government within their limits. Rich people who evade income tax don't show it even if they have money in the bank And for this a class of officers of Bank and NBR help them in exchange of benefits and they keep a part of their income outside the banking channel and smuggle it out of the country.

I think the taxation these days have become a major source of revenue for the government like the way it is in my country. For sure everyone has to find cheaper ways to fulfil their tax quota because taxes help in nation building and that's what the government uses to develop infrastructures and industries that provides a source of livelihood to the masses.

The reality of the rat race is what we should be aware of in any work situation we are faced with and thus find a way to get out of it.
Regulations and regulatory bodies are growing everyday in almost every aspect of the economy that is a means of income and it goes to show that one's true financial goal should be to become economically independent, and this entails investment in areas or ideas that has the potential of bringing steady returns and has little tax quotient attached to it.

We should be thinking off about on the actual usage of that tax then it would really be something that pertains about having those development within the country on which it would be something that will be used on building infrastratures or making some livelihood program and other programs that will really be benefited by its citizens.I do agree into those words above that people will really be just that having some issues about trust into the government on which we know that money that being pooled with those taxes are really that just too big. If it turned out to be mismanaged then it would really be ending up that kind of having no progress
and they are the only ones that will really benefit out with those amounts on which we know that it should really be something that be used into those real means.
Whether we do like it or not, we would be taxed or charged up or on whatever deductions that we could have: from buying goods and wants, or salary deductions or simply everything is taxed out
on every actions that you are making or dealing with.

Well, well, look what they made us into, someone who work their life and struggle for everything while the leaders will enjoy everything with the tax payers money and don't think about who are actually helping the nation to keep running. Spending tax money for defence accepted to certain level but using it to finance war for other countries for decades now here tell what do people actually benefits from this? I don't want to work my ass off to finance war that's happening somewhere which is none of my business.

You grow up to understand that government wants you to use all the things it creates for you and not all of them are good. Usually if the government tells you to do something it's counterproductive and will cost you money. Usually you should do the opposite of what they're telling you.

Some of the things governments told people to do:
Enlist in the army, buy bonds, don't buy bitcoin because it's bad for environment, keep money on a bank account, don't use cash, buy electric cars.
It's funny that when they recommend something it's not allowed to call it a scam.

It's too much to live in a country of law but we don't comply with taxes and maybe there are some people who see taxes as a step for the government to exploit entrepreneurs. If examined further, taxes function for the sustainability of the state, especially if the state does not have other sources of income from the natural products sector. With taxes, it will slightly help the government's burden in terms of state revenue, although in general it is a bit of a burden on entrepreneurs.

Some entrepreneurs try to switch to a more profitable business with a much lower tax percentage. In this case we have to look according to interests and cannot narrate everything the same. Indeed, taxes are a problem for entrepreneurs, but that is how the government enforces the rules and they will continue to try to find ways in which taxes can provide benefits to the country.

I am not in the capacity to refuse or accept, but that is how the country is run and when we don't want to follow then we have to look for a country that is tax friendly.

Don't forget that taxes are also used to pay the salaries of civil servants who often work below standard and work without pressure compared to the pressure faced by private employees because private employees will always work according to the targets set by the company, and private employees pay taxes, that's the cycle and it is quite ironic indeed and there is nothing that can be done other than accepting and hoping that the government uses the tax money fully for the welfare of society and corruption is not something that can be avoided in a country with low law enforcement. However, taxes should not make us give up hope of achieving the financial goals we hope for, so that when we have to pay taxes it no longer makes us annoyed.

While most people are not happy paying taxes as this means less money for themselves, they understand that they need to do it in order to keep society running, however what really infuriates people up is that on many countries that money is not used for its stated purpose, and politicians use it to enrich themselves or advance their personal agendas, this is what causes a lot of people to be against paying taxes as they receive almost nothing in return.

Everyone will of course be angry when the taxes they pay are not managed well by the government, because they have restrained themselves from spending money to pay taxes but the government does not use them well and they only think about their group, of course this will be very difficult to eliminate. if you have a government system like that, you are right, it is true that some people avoid taxes, as you said, but even those who have power still avoid exposure, of course this is very bad, they only enjoy government facilities, but they themselves still avoid it of course this is very bad.

Middle class is getting lower and lower in number. What we used to consider middle class was the family that had one father working, mother taking care of the house and the kids, kids going to school without debt, they had one house, one car they changed every 5 to 10 years, and one vacation every summer. Nowadays what we consider as middle class are the people who have debt lower than 3 months worth of salary, that is true if you have debt lower than your 3 month salary then you are a middle class.

Most have no homes, barely a car that runs, school debt even in your 40's, and many more trouble as well. This means that as long as we keep this trend going, we are going to have middle class at "if you have a job then you are a middle class" level eventually.

No, not getting lower in number but getting higher in number actually according to their new definition because it's easy to have a debt and other negative things that you mentioned there. I still think that this is not totally their fault but it can also be because of the recession, etc... , most especially inflation and its continuously increasing rates.

Sorry to say this but I think the governments, banks, and the likes, can also be the reason on why it happens. Having a job is already one of the qualifications for being a middle class. Maybe you can instead say that having no job will soon still be considered as it. They (lower class, middle class, and so on...) are mainly just a term anyway, and I think there is no real big deal on them whichever or whatever you define them.

If you wont do something about it then you would really be definitely be that ending up on having that eternal condition on which you would be sitting on that middle class. This is why if you dont properly plan your finances and other possible investment or business then you would really be ending up on that way. There are people who are really that not that contented on what they do have specially if they've seen that they are really that living in a life on which they are really that only just that enough providing their daily needs. Sitting on the middle class which of course having that own car and having that lower debts in compared with a couple of salary but as much as possible we should really be that doing our very best on having that less or to none debt or simply being debt free.

Talking or speaking about that government decisions or handling or whatever laws or things that they've been integrating then it would really be just that a normal part. It is really just that there are really things in life
on which its something that cant really be handled or something that could be controlled specially inflation on which this had been always the main culprit on why purchasing power becomes lesser year by year but of course if government would really be finding at least some patch up solutions on which it could cause something about that balance but well not everything could really be that be fixed and there's nothing we can do about it
and instead looking or expecting something from government actions, then why not letting or making yourself that act on which you do see that could benefit you out?

Honestly having that type of mindset will not make things easier. If we keep thinking about what we want and what are the obstacles on our path then we are not going to keep getting better. Imagine all the big companies in the world, if you asked them what would be the obstacles on their way, they could have listed you a seven thousand page long list, but they did it anyway and tried their best, a lot of companies failed and bankrupted, but some of them became as big as facebook and tesla etc etc.

This is why I believe that we should not look into what could be an issue when we are dealing with this, just realize that we are doing a good job with what we have, and there shouldn't be really any trouble at all regarding this issue.

Financial independence is having the life you want without being dependent on your job. I live in a developing country where the majority of people don't pay taxes and I mean people who rent houses don't pay taxes, people who are self-employed don't pay taxes and people get a different official salary but get different amounts of cash on hand. My country looks like a tax haven for regular citizens but it doesn't mean that people are financially independent. The government knows the situation and they don't expect people to pay taxes but they use different mechanisms, for example, administrative penalties are very costly compared to salaries and that's how the government budget gets filled.
 

It is not really a mystery why this is happening, at least on the US the salaries have remained stagnant since the seventies, and it is likely things are worse on many other countries around the world, so governments in an attempt to hide the truth, have redefined what it means to be middle class, if they did not do this then people will realize that there is very few people that are actually middle class now, but while they can redefine terms as they like, this does not change the underlying reality and it is causing many governments to get into massive debt, as the taxes they got out of the middle class are also not what they used to be.

The definition of middle class may vary from country to country, but in many countries it has a definition like you said. As a result of poor economic management, the middle class disappears and classes are determined as very rich and poor.

As living conditions became difficult, the middle class lost its economic power. The rich got richer and the class gap widened. This situation affects society negatively. Increasing the difference between classes means that there is injustice in the distribution of resources.

Personal goals are most important than to think about the government to solve all the problems. Government can't solve all the financial problems of us and we should struggle at the teenage to solve all the financial problems. We should work hard if we  belongs  to poor family or  middle class family.  We can develop skills and can work online and we can provide service to the business owner . I this way ,we will be rich and successful in future.Being rich is not easy for the poor person but it is also not a rocket science. With knowledge of finance,every person can become rich and he can enjoy all luxuries of life.

Basically when the governments mismanage a nation, it's easy to say that people are getting poorer because we are talking about a very bad period for world economy. Sure the rich could keep getting richer because they have a working system in their hands and they just keep making more and more that way, but people who are salary workers do not get anything higher, you just don't make enough money at all and I feel like we are going to end up with nothing in the end.

We should realize that we are going to have some trouble unless we are careful because governments do not look like they are going to get any better so the economy could keep on getting worse as well. It is better to just avoid all of this and find a way for yourself and figure out a way to save yourself.

You should know the obstacles in your way or you will be ambushed but if you prepared to face the obstacle then it would be much easier for you to tackle them than being completely clueless of what is happening and how to face it and I am sure every successful company work through every obstacle instead of trying to avoid it but anyway it is irrelevant since we are talking about individual's goal not the the success behind companies.

Do you think differently about this, they could deliberately eliminate the middle economic class for the purpose of becoming 2 different groups namely the rich and poor class, this is for the purpose of increasing tax revenues because some of the middle economic class are included in the rich class with the rules that have been updated with the same percentage amount that must be paid in tax.

Do the government actually expect something from you other than being a good citizen paying tax and don't create problems that will be consider national treat? I doubt any government of any country have any expectations from their citizens. They are more concern about generating revenue internal and external.
Only your parents expect you to be successful, government only care about controlling you and your finance. 

Look it is reality that the government cannot solve all our problems but the government can create various opportunities for our economic development. But without personal effort and initiative our overall economic development is never possible. In a competitive environment the faster and earlier who participates in the development race the faster he will be at the top of success. So a family must be given theoretical and practical education on how to participate in economic development.

If the government really thinks about things like what you mentioned, I think it will look good, because if all the taxes that people pay are different between the poor and rich classes, of course this will make the poor people continue to pay their taxes because they are in small amounts and for those who Those who have a lot of wealth will certainly have to pay more taxes because the wealth they have will be able to pay the taxes imposed on them by the state.