Bitcoin Forum

Bitcoin => Bitcoin Discussion => Topic started by: worldtraveller321 on May 05, 2024, 10:17:26 AM



Title: Regulations Not Working as Planned??
Post by: worldtraveller321 on May 05, 2024, 10:17:26 AM
Regulations Not Working?

Do you think it is true, that right now with the governments, banks “powers that be” in attempt to Gain control of BTC and other cryptos.
They are trying to put into regulations etc. Yet there are troubles to making the cryptos as “securities”
With all the lawsuits “they “ try to put onto the crypto companies. Has not worked in the “favour” of the powers that be?
Is this true?

Does this prove that the blockchain tech is a success?

That BTC could work as a money system for the people and help people to devalue FIAT currency?

Or am I wrong and the “powers that be” are winning  and people will lose in the crypto world?

Your thoughts?


Title: Re: Regulations Not Working as Planned??
Post by: AVE5 on May 05, 2024, 11:19:12 AM
Regulations Not Working?

Do you think it is true, that right now with the governments, banks “powers that be” in attempt to Gain control of BTC and other cryptos.
They are trying to put into regulations etc. Yet there are troubles to making the cryptos as “securities”
With all the lawsuits “they “ try to put onto the crypto companies. Has not worked in the “favour” of the powers that be?
Is this true?.
There's already an ongoing frightening issues going on in my country that the federal government are trying to manipulate the process of Crypto blockchain to their control by disassociating our local from the crypto exchanges and penalizing fintech banks associating with transactions on the crypto P2P.


Regulations Not Working?
Does this prove that the blockchain tech is a success?

That BTC could work as a money system for the people and help people to devalue FIAT currency?

Or am I wrong and the “powers that be” are winning  and people will lose in the crypto world?

Your thoughts?

Yes of course, crypto blockchains technology is a success and that's why the government are going mad over it since they can't break into it.
The government has no impact that contributed to the development of bitcoin currency and doesn't have documentation about the origin of bitcoin and so they can't get into it.
Bitcoinehas never tended to devalue the fiats but alternative means to make payments. Bitcoin isn't responsible for any outcome of devaluing the fiats rather the government in control of the centralized currencies does by which it depends on the countries economy growth which determines the value to the the fiats.
Bitcoin as a digital currency also do have its economy challenges at its volatile potentiality of inflation and deflations.
The government are only selfish and tasty to takeover a system which is designed to be non custodial because they could understand that potentials it's.

The blockchain of bitcoin isn't projected to be one of those techs that would be folded and unfolds to the governance of the centralized authorities.
But whichever way, bitcoin potentials of breaking the chain of poverty thats projected by the government against the poor masses can be contradicted.


Title: Re: Regulations Not Working as Planned??
Post by: franky1 on May 05, 2024, 11:23:53 AM
alot of people think/assume/hoped that regulations were about consumer protections to avoid centralised services facilitating illegal activities that can cause other innocent customers to be abused and lose value due to bad acts of the services

however regulations actually allow services to police the customers to then allow the service to evade themselves being liable for the illicit acts of their customers


bitcoin has no ears, eyes, mouth or brain to interpret fiat regulations, bitcoin only knows its own code.. so as long as bitcoin code does not emulate fiat regulations bitcoin is not affected bt fiat regulations.. however people and businesses that are guided by regulations are tied and controlled by those regulations whether they(businesses and people) use bitcoin or not


Title: Re: Regulations Not Working as Planned??
Post by: oktana on May 05, 2024, 11:52:02 AM
Regulations Not Working?

Do you think it is true, that right now with the governments, banks “powers that be” in attempt to Gain control of BTC and other cryptos.
They are trying to put into regulations etc. Yet there are troubles to making the cryptos as “securities”
With all the lawsuits “they “ try to put onto the crypto companies. Has not worked in the “favour” of the powers that be?
Is this true?

Does this prove that the blockchain tech is a success?

That BTC could work as a money system for the people and help people to devalue FIAT currency?

Or am I wrong and the “powers that be” are winning  and people will lose in the crypto world?

Your thoughts?

When you say “help people devalue fiat”, understand that this isn’t the intention of Bitcoin. I understand it can happen but you say it like that’s the purpose. I think it will be just fine if both type of currencies can coexist and people can choose which one they want to use other than it being a battle (which Bitcoin isn’t battling against no one).


Title: Re: Regulations Not Working as Planned??
Post by: peter0425 on May 05, 2024, 11:57:29 AM
Do you think it is true, that right now with the governments, banks “powers that be” in attempt to Gain control of BTC and other cryptos.

Yes many government of different countries have attempted to put in regulations that may hinder people from continuing to use or participate in any crypto-related activities.

Quote
Has not worked in the “favour” of the powers that be?
Is this true?

Does this prove that the blockchain tech is a success?

Personally I think governments are having a hard time trying to control crypto because even they do not understand it completely. Its decentralized nature makes it hard for the government to just grab it by its neck and kill it. Crypto is a very gray area if you will so regulations must be wisely implemented.


Title: Re: Regulations Not Working as Planned??
Post by: Upgrade00 on May 05, 2024, 12:52:58 PM
That BTC could work as a money system for the people and help people to devalue FIAT currency?
Bitcoin was never intended to devalue fiat currencies, that's not the objective of the network.

And regulations are working to a very large extent. Majority of Bitcoin users gain exposure to it through centralized channels which the government control and regulate. The pockets of users who are keen on privacy and decentralization grows smaller constantly and the government is already targeting privacy channels, making it difficult for users to stay under the radar.


Title: Re: Regulations Not Working as Planned??
Post by: stompix on May 05, 2024, 01:00:15 PM
Personally I think governments are having a hard time trying to control crypto because even they do not understand it completely. Its decentralized nature makes it hard for the government to just grab it by its neck and kill it.

Yeah, that stupid government, oh for god's sake let's stop with this non-sense.
The same government that has no idea how crypto works has created both SHA2 and TOR, while 90% of the crypto users claim to understand crypto better than the government and have no idea how to select the fees they pay for a tx nor do they know what's the difference between a node and a miner.

They don't have a clue about it but they were able to take down services and trace individuals based on one tx for a Walmart card while crypto users are failing to address poisoning copy-paste attacks yet yeah, they are the stupid ones.

Do you think it is true, that right now with the governments, banks “powers that be” in attempt to Gain control of BTC and other cryptos.
They are trying to put into regulations etc. Yet there are troubles to making the cryptos as “securities”

So the government that controls everything wants to make crypto securities but they can't because...they don't control everything.
Why do all these theories lack even one tiny bit of logic?






Title: Re: Regulations Not Working as Planned??
Post by: pakhitheboss on May 05, 2024, 03:22:43 PM
Personally I think governments are having a hard time trying to control crypto because even they do not understand it completely. Its decentralized nature makes it hard for the government to just grab it by its neck and kill it. Crypto is a very gray area if you will so regulations must be wisely implemented.

I have read the list of government ruling in their respective countries that are holding Bitcoin. List of countries holding the biggest stach of Bitcoin (https://coinpedia.org/news/countries-with-the-highest-bitcoin-holdings-in-2024/#:~:text=Bhutan%20+975,Venezuela%20+58). That means the government of thse countries are trying to gain from Bitcon rather confiscating it or selling it in the global market.

Next, we can see how a few countries like the US have come up with ETFs so that they can control a decentralized product through their financial institution. This is just the beginning we will be seeing more of such ways to try and take control of Bitcoin and it's price.

Do you still think the government are having a hard time to understand and accumulate Bitcoin for their own agenda. I doubt they are clueless and I think they are on thier path to make a decentralized economy to centralized economy.


Title: Re: Regulations Not Working as Planned??
Post by: btc78 on May 05, 2024, 04:37:19 PM
Do you still think the government are having a hard time to understand and accumulate Bitcoin for their own agenda. I doubt they are clueless and I think they are on thier path to make a decentralized economy to centralized economy.

I think we do not give enough credit to governments. Government has the ability to hire the right people in different fields and sectors. For sure they have a group of people studying about crypto and ways how they can a) deal with and b) benefit from crypto.

Of course they are not going to lay their cards out in the open. They want us to think that they are clueless but they are almost never clueless and in fact most of the time knows more than they should.


Title: Re: Regulations Not Working as Planned??
Post by: Cryptomultiplier on May 05, 2024, 06:28:44 PM
Personally I think governments are having a hard time trying to control crypto because even they do not understand it completely. Its decentralized nature makes it hard for the government to just grab it by its neck and kill it. Crypto is a very gray area if you will so regulations must be wisely implemented.

I have read the list of government ruling in their respective countries that are holding Bitcoin. List of countries holding the biggest stach of Bitcoin (https://coinpedia.org/news/countries-with-the-highest-bitcoin-holdings-in-2024/#:~:text=Bhutan%20+975,Venezuela%20+58). That means the government of thse countries are trying to gain from Bitcon rather confiscating it or selling it in the global market.

Next, we can see how a few countries like the US have come up with ETFs so that they can control a decentralized product through their financial institution. This is just the beginning we will be seeing more of such ways to try and take control of Bitcoin and it's price.

Do you still think the government are having a hard time to understand and accumulate Bitcoin for their own agenda. I doubt they are clueless and I think they are on thier path to make a decentralized economy to centralized economy.
Regulation has always been the plan of the government of many countries these days inorder to control what they don't benefit from or have a direct effect on. Since many central banks has failed to meet customer needs, the decentralized network has been seen as a salvation and as it is now being regulated, I still think it is just only some aspects of it that's controlled and it's working.


Title: Re: Regulations Not Working as Planned??
Post by: Yamane_Keto on May 05, 2024, 06:34:08 PM
So far, the regulations have not addressed Bitcoin as a protocol.  regulation happens at the level of mixers, and central services. The Bitcoin protocol, mining, and decentralized services are still working without government interventions in how to implement them.
If governments decide to centralize Bitcoin, they may not succeed in doing that, but its value will be much lower than the current value, and the blockchain may be weaker due to the limited hashrate.


Title: Re: Regulations Not Working as Planned??
Post by: alastantiger on May 05, 2024, 06:39:53 PM
Regulations are working. Especially for centralized exchanges. They comply with a lot of government policies and the have no choice than to do it or face sanctions or be expelled from that country where they are doing business. The consequence of this is that they lose a large customer to a competitor and the lose revenue in the long run especially when it is in a country that has a growing number of crypto users. Because they put profit first over their users, centralized exchange have no other option than to bow to the regulation of the powers that be.


Title: Re: Regulations Not Working as Planned??
Post by: Medusah on May 05, 2024, 06:52:04 PM
Those in power still have control over 99% of the people who invest in cryptocurrencies.  This is primarily due to the fact that most users undergo Know Your Customer procedures and are consistently monitored either through centralized exchanges or by chain analysis.  Privacy-conscious people who engage in coinjoining represent only a tiny fraction.  And now that Samourai Wallet is seized by the authorities...  even less. 

Bitcoin is currently a surveillance paradise.  Regulations will unfold as intended. 


Title: Re: Regulations Not Working as Planned??
Post by: electronicash on May 05, 2024, 07:18:00 PM

since we all have to comply with the KYC regardless of the success the price of BTC is going up and the adoption rate increased, they could say is working in their favor because they are also gradually taking control of the market through ETFs.

whether compromised or not, doesn't matter anymore because everyone is busy trying to live already in the current economy. we are all submissive.


Title: Re: Regulations Not Working as Planned??
Post by: Alone055 on May 05, 2024, 07:40:36 PM
Personally I think governments are having a hard time trying to control crypto because even they do not understand it completely. Its decentralized nature makes it hard for the government to just grab it by its neck and kill it. Crypto is a very gray area if you will so regulations must be wisely implemented.

What makes you think the governments don't understand cryptocurrencies or the blockchain system? Apart from a few third-world countries where government officials are chosen based on power and most of them are a bunch of illiterates, all other governments consist of people who are very well-educated and understand everything very clearly, they live in the same world as we do. So if we can understand everything, they can understand it too.

There is no rocket science in it, everything is very clear and easily understandable, and anyone conducting a bit of research can understand everything. When we talk about regulations, they know very well what they need to do, and they have regulated platforms and things where they know most people would go at some point, such as centralized exchanges that we use to convert our cryptocurrencies into fiat through the P2P marketplaces.

These platforms ask us to verify our identities before we use their services, why so? Because they are regulated. So, in a country where the government has regulations in place, a person within that country using a centralized P2P exchange is easily exposed to them.


Title: Re: Regulations Not Working as Planned??
Post by: serjent05 on May 05, 2024, 07:55:25 PM
Quote
Does this prove that the blockchain tech is a success?

With the attention of the government getting focus on regulating this technology, I think the blockchain tech is somehow successful.  If it is a failure then the government won't even pay attention to it.


Quote
That BTC could work as a money system for the people and help people to devalue FIAT currency?

I agree with the earlier replies that Bitcoin was not created to devalue Fiat currency but rather modeled to remove  third party authorities from the equation in sending transactions.  To make the fee cheaper (but with the BRC tokens and ordinals made it impossible) and give more freedom to users in terms of transactions.

Or am I wrong and the “powers that be” are winning  and people will lose in the crypto world?

Your thoughts?

Whoever had the authority will prevail unless the masses turns the table and gain the authority.  Regulations are there to restrict people and put them under control.  It does not work for the benefit of the people but rather works for the benefit of the estate.  Since setting regulations, the authority can do whatever they wanted in disguise of implementing the law, they can even pillage the money/fund/BTC of any individual in disguise of ceasing them due to money laundering.


Title: Re: Regulations Not Working as Planned??
Post by: Faisal2202 on May 05, 2024, 08:17:17 PM
Or am I wrong and the “powers that be” are winning  and people will lose in the crypto world?

Your thoughts?
Governments and authorities are working to make BTC as centralized as they can. And they are doing every possible thing to eliminate all the tools and platforms that provide us anonymity. But still where is demand there is supply. One will be closed other will rise. The point is why they are against anonymity. Why they want to keep the track of our money?

Well, answers to these questions are not so hard. Speaking of the fiat system it can't be devalued or eliminated. Because banks (fiat) is directly related to BTC. And most of the platforms which excluded the banks from the centre as middlemen and directly allowed people to deal with Crypto or BTC with fiat and vice versa are being used in bad usecases.

Which is not good for the future of BTC therefore IMHO such rules and regulations are good to some extent as traditional people will only accept or adopt it until governments won't do something about it. Either they will go against or in support of it.


Title: Re: Regulations Not Working as Planned??
Post by: Die_empty on May 05, 2024, 08:41:34 PM
When you say “help people devalue fiat”, understand that this isn’t the intention of Bitcoin. I understand it can happen but you say it like that’s the purpose. I think it will be just fine if both type of currencies can coexist and people can choose which one they want to use other than it being a battle (which Bitcoin isn’t battling against no one).
The government understands the crypto space more than most people. They hire some of the best hands who have wide exposure and experience in the crypto space. Assuming that the government has not gotten control over the system because it is ignorant is self-deception.

Do you think it is true, that right now with the governments, banks “powers that be” in attempt to Gain control of BTC and other cryptos.
They are trying to put into regulations etc. Yet there are troubles to making the cryptos as “securities”

So the government that controls everything wants to make crypto securities but they can't because...they don't control everything.
Why do all these theories lack even one tiny bit of logic?
One of the reasons why I think the government has not achieved its aim of controlling the cryptosystem, especially in the US is that the country ha has a working democratic system. The three arms of government are independent and the checks and balance system works to some extent. There are still crypto supporters in Congress who oppose the anti-crypto law. Crypto firms can also take their grievances to court and get judgment which favours the industry.


Title: Re: Regulations Not Working as Planned??
Post by: letteredhub on May 05, 2024, 09:07:59 PM

That BTC could work as a money system for the people and help people to devalue FIAT currency?
This misinterpretation you've just laid here is same misinterpreted notion the government has about bitcoin that is making them go after bitcoin and it users throwing all kinds of harsh policies on them. With that fear that bitcoin has come to replace fiat and therefore devalue it as though they were in competition. Bitcoin is only an alternative digital currency here to provide self custody of individual finance (privacy) to those who pick interest in it and in addendum proffering financial freedom. More interestingly, a lot of persons adopts bitcoin today as an hedge against inflation which fiat is peone to.  Nothing like helping people to devalue fiat.


Title: Re: Regulations Not Working as Planned??
Post by: hatshepsut93 on May 05, 2024, 09:08:11 PM
They can't control every aspect of Bitcoin and they don't need to. The want to control how average joe uses Bitcoin, and that's very easy to achieve - just set the rules for exchanges and other big services and that's it, because most people interact with Bitcoin through them. There's no need for sophisticated plots to take over Bitcoin mining or development if for 99% of people Bitcoin is useless when it can't be converted into $$ in their bank account.


Title: Re: Regulations Not Working as Planned??
Post by: o48o on May 05, 2024, 09:39:27 PM
Regulations Not Working?

Do you think it is true, that right now with the governments, banks “powers that be” in attempt to Gain control of BTC and other cryptos.
They are trying to put into regulations etc. Yet there are troubles to making the cryptos as “securities”

With all the lawsuits “they “ try to put onto the crypto companies. Has not worked in the “favour” of the powers that be?
Is this true?

Does this prove that the blockchain tech is a success?

That BTC could work as a money system for the people and help people to devalue FIAT currency?

Or am I wrong and the “powers that be” are winning  and people will lose in the crypto world?

Your thoughts?
I don't know that anyone would have ever tried to define bitcoin as a security, as it clearly passes the howey test. And since we are in bitcoin section, i won't be talking about government's successful swings against various altcoins. But they have succeeded well with banning mixers. And while people might still use those in the future, it will become more and more problematic as they need to prove the origin of the money in the future, otherwise CEXes will freeze their assets, or at least banks their fiat, if it's related to cryptos with unknown sources.

Blockchain tech in many ways is a success, but as long as we need FIAT money i don't think it's as resilient for political pressure as we thought. But just the fact that people want to use them, forces their leaders to adapt, and at least not totally ban them, because those are their future voters they are dealing with.

And what an earth you are talking about with devaluing FIAT currencies? That doesn't make any sense.


Title: Re: Regulations Not Working as Planned??
Post by: Hamza2424 on May 05, 2024, 10:31:05 PM
Regulations Not Working?
Do you think it is true, that right now with the governments, banks “powers that be” in attempt to Gain control of BTC and other cryptos.
They are trying to put into regulations etc. Yet there are troubles to making the cryptos as “securities”
With all the lawsuits “they “ try to put onto the crypto companies. Has not worked in the “favour” of the powers that be?
Is this true?
Does this prove that the blockchain tech is a success?

That BTC could work as a money system for the people and help people to devalue FIAT currency?

HMM, OP these are so many concerns which are been already discussed in different views, but still, I think the potential limit is still unknown and we haven't tested the boundaries, there are many good things with Bitcoin and crypto but (when it comes getting into it) in Bitcoin/Crypto with same narrative is tough because its human nature that many agree and many disagree.

Regulations were never the obstacle for the success of Bitcoin until or unless "they" decide to plan strict action on the community because everything is decentralized and in the P2P  system so how a government can be an obstacle, point is they realize that we cant control it this way but we can allow them to use under our control named as ETF. I don't know either what shit I'm typing its 4 AM and I'm making a post after working 6 hours consistently on code, and now after readings OP's post I thought why not put rough thoughts on it. Anyway, I'll look for an edit if required but tomorrow.

_Good Night ahhhhhh


Title: Re: Regulations Not Working as Planned??
Post by: GreatArkansas on May 06, 2024, 01:06:04 AM
(....)

Does this prove that the blockchain tech is a success?

That BTC could work as a money system for the people and help people to devalue FIAT currency?

Or am I wrong and the “powers that be” are winning  and people will lose in the crypto world?

Your thoughts?
For me, blockchain technology is already a success. What these regulators doing is yes they are fighting with cryptocurrency and the only way they are first working are these big companies that are related to cryptocurrency just like centralized exchange, why? because they can't directly attack the cryptocurrency, so they are only on that level.


Title: Re: Regulations Not Working as Planned??
Post by: arjunmujay on May 06, 2024, 04:37:30 AM
For me, blockchain technology is already a success. What these regulators doing is yes they are fighting with cryptocurrency and the only way they are first working are these big companies that are related to cryptocurrency just like centralized exchange, why? because they can't directly attack the cryptocurrency, so they are only on that level.

It's true that even blockchain technology is very extraordinary and very important to the future. Even attacking cryptocurrencies is impossible with today's most sophisticated computers.
The decentralization that is being promoted means that attackers have to rack their brains to attack all computers connected to the network. This is different from centralization which only exists on one complete server belonging to a company or bank.


Title: Re: Regulations Not Working as Planned??
Post by: Minor Miner on May 06, 2024, 05:19:14 AM
Regulations Not Working?

Do you think it is true, that right now with the governments, banks “powers that be” in attempt to Gain control of BTC and other cryptos.
They are trying to put into regulations etc. Yet there are troubles to making the cryptos as “securities”
With all the lawsuits “they “ try to put onto the crypto companies. Has not worked in the “favour” of the powers that be?
Is this true?

Does this prove that the blockchain tech is a success?

That BTC could work as a money system for the people and help people to devalue FIAT currency?

Or am I wrong and the “powers that be” are winning  and people will lose in the crypto world?

Your thoughts?

When you say “help people devalue fiat”, understand that this isn’t the intention of Bitcoin. I understand it can happen but you say it like that’s the purpose. I think it will be just fine if both type of currencies can coexist and people can choose which one they want to use other than it being a battle (which Bitcoin isn’t battling against no one).

Satoshi never mentioned bitcoin would help people devalue fiat money or it would completely replace fiat, and destroy traditional monetary systems. But it is difficult to understand how some people got that idea and spread it, causing misunderstandings to become more and more serious. I think it is for that reason that the government was not sympathetic to bitcoin in the early days and took a hostile stance towards it.

And frankly, even if bitcoin was created by Satoshi for that purpose, I bet bitcoin is not powerful enough to do that. Only the government has the right to threaten bitcoin, bitcoin has never been an opponent for them to worry about. Many people are too delusional and exaggerated about the power of bitcoin.

I agree with you, I also thought of a scenario where both would coexist side by side and bitcoin would be an alternative alongside fiat money instead of fighting with each other.


Title: Re: Regulations Not Working as Planned??
Post by: avikz on May 06, 2024, 05:29:19 AM
Regulations are here to take control over the entire crypto ecosystem by the governments, especially US government! They know it's not an easy task and that's why they are targeting centralized businesses and putting them under Anti-money laundering law. Governments know they can't control the algorithm but they can surely control the big corporates built around the algorithm.

But I do not see any issues in Fiat system due to this. Bitcoin isn't here to attack the status quo in fiat! It has created a parallel economy and that's why all governments are fuming and trying to get things under their control!


Title: Re: Regulations Not Working as Planned??
Post by: retreat on May 06, 2024, 05:39:18 AM
Many governments are trying to control the circulation of Bitcoin in their countries - the one we hear most often is the US, this is the country that most passionately wants to control Bitcoin in their country. And they were successful at that. Just look at how the exchange operates there, you will be able to see how the exchange is closely monitored by the SEC and they cannot do things outside of SEC regulations. If there is an exchange platform that is not regulated and operates there, then the owner of the platform could be punished, wherever in the world he is. That's one example of how governments regulate Bitcoin, and we haven't discussed other countries yet.


Title: Re: Regulations Not Working as Planned??
Post by: davis196 on May 06, 2024, 06:00:09 AM
I don't know what exactly are you traying to say in your forum thread.
The idea that the governments/banks want to "take control" over the crypto world is nothing more than a conspiracy theory.
Most government/banks around the world don't want to have anything in common with Bitcoin/crypto. They would rather ban it than trying to take control over it. You have to distinguish the centralized crypto companies, that have to abide by the law, and the people with cold wallets, who aren't using centralized crypto services.
No regulations and bans are working in a perfect way. Illegal drugs are banned in most countries around the world and there are millions of drug addicts. The same applies to every ban that is imposed by the governments. There will always be criminals, who are taking advantage of the ban by selling illegal stuff.


Title: Re: Regulations Not Working as Planned??
Post by: AprilioMP on May 06, 2024, 06:21:36 AM
Do you think it is true, that right now with the governments, banks “powers that be” in attempt to Gain control of BTC and other cryptos.
They are trying to put into regulations etc. Yet there are troubles to making the cryptos as “securities”
With all the lawsuits “they “ try to put onto the crypto companies. Has not worked in the “favour” of the powers that be?
Is this true?

I won't say that it's right or wrong but I wanted to share my thoughts on it.
The government is in power because they are the party who runs the country with rules as a supporting force in regulating all aspects.
I'm trying to interpret that the legal requirements you are referring to are about loopholes that are used for actions such as money laundering.

Because Bitcoin runs on its own rules with the intention of not harming the government, for me whatever rules they make will not make Bitcoin controlled. Regarding their success in taking advantage of crypto institutions and controlling crypto with their power, I think the fiat currency system should not be involved with Bitcoin which has its own system that does not take care of the fiat bank system.

That BTC could work as a money system for the people and help people to devalue FIAT currency?

It is not the purpose of Bitcoin as an electronic payment system from one party to another without going through a financial institution. Read whitepaper.


Title: Re: Regulations Not Working as Planned??
Post by: Baki202 on May 06, 2024, 06:37:20 AM
Many governments are trying to control the circulation of Bitcoin in their countries - the one we hear most often is the US, this is the country that most passionately wants to control Bitcoin in their country. And they were successful at that. Just look at how the exchange operates there, you will be able to see how the exchange is closely monitored by the SEC and they cannot do things outside of SEC regulations. If there is an exchange platform that is not regulated and operates there, then the owner of the platform could be punished, wherever in the world he is. That's one example of how governments regulate Bitcoin, and we haven't discussed other countries yet.
A lot of countries are trying to regulate bitcoin by all means and the more they try, the more they fail. was designed with the idea of a decentralized finance system that would give people more power  and the truth is that the government is always looking for ways to regulate what is not in its control, and the government feels bitcoin is behind the crash of some countries currencies, which is very wrong after they have made there own mistakes, then they look for what to blame it on. and with the way we want that power to control crypto, the same way other countries are looking for ways to control crypto in there own space.

Because the Nigerian government already gave a directive on banning crypto, looking for ways to control it won't work. Other countries are looking for ways to invest, and other countries are looking for ways to control to me its a misplaced priority.


Title: Re: Regulations Not Working as Planned??
Post by: jcojci on May 06, 2024, 08:43:40 AM
The government wants to control BTC and other cryptos. But they can't do that because BTC stands alone and is not dependent on the government. That's why the government is trying to make regulations to control it, but they can only control BTC and crypto users. The government has done this to monitor crypto users in their country so that the government can get additional taxes from them. Maybe the government forces crypto companies to follow their regulations but they can't force BTC because BTC is different from other crypto companies.

Blockchain technology has successfully developed and we can see that many crypto companies have launched their respective projects. But we don't know which crypto companies are connected to the government and are always monitored by the government.

BTC does not devalue FIAT currencies but BTC works together with FIAT to help each other in the financial sector. BTC can provide the opportunity to make cross-border financial transfers that are not limited by distance and time or high transaction fees. Maybe I'm wrong on this, forgive me.


Title: Re: Regulations Not Working as Planned??
Post by: PrivacyG on May 06, 2024, 01:59:06 PM
Bitcoin is STILL fairly new.  And being Decentralized too, it is hard to build a framework that just works as they want it to.  Particularly when they know Bitcoin can not be controlled the same way they wish it could, unlike most of the other things they regulate.

I believe they are trying to find the perfect framework so it sounds logical while pressing on to the Bitcoin users at the same time.  With enough pressure, restrictions and regulations, they can create a burden so large a pretty significant amount of potential users will probably just give up thoughts about joining the Blockchain.  On the other hand, they also need to make sure MOST of the users can be supervised.  As a consequence you see Know Your Customer being imposed every where, Governments pushing negative news and stories about Monero et cetera.

It is some what understandable that the Government is doing this.  But as I said.  The framework is still in the works and it will take a long time before Bitcoin gets a some what solid regulatory foundation.

Think about Gold, since it is always compared to Bitcoin.  How many centuries has Gold been around for?  Yet you STILL hear about new regulations once every year at the very least.  In time, things change.  I do expect a lot of changes in the near AND farther future surrounding the Bitcoin regulations, and I do expect that in time Bitcoin users will feel increasingly strangled by new regulations.  But it is what it is.

Regulations are partially working and partially not.  Yes because there truly are people who out of fear obey to Know Your Customer and such other ridiculous laws.  And no because the more oppression there is, the more power Bitcoin users like me get.  While the Government is working on regulating Bitcoin, the users who HATE these regulations are working on opposing them.  Through various ways, such as building Decentralized Exchanges.  Atomic Swaps.  Markets.  Layer Two solutions to make Bitcoin faster and 'better'.  And so on.


Title: Re: Regulations Not Working as Planned??
Post by: jaberwock on May 06, 2024, 08:24:32 PM
I won't say that it's right or wrong but I wanted to share my thoughts on it.
The government is in power because they are the party who runs the country with rules as a supporting force in regulating all aspects.
I'm trying to interpret that the legal requirements you are referring to are about loopholes that are used for actions such as money laundering.

Because Bitcoin runs on its own rules with the intention of not harming the government, for me whatever rules they make will not make Bitcoin controlled. Regarding their success in taking advantage of crypto institutions and controlling crypto with their power, I think the fiat currency system should not be involved with Bitcoin which has its own system that does not take care of the fiat bank system.
A lot of people came to bitcoin because they were fed up with fiat world ruining their possibility and not making a fair ground for them, rich got richer and the system was built as a way to make you stay poor, at least the financial part of it, rich people who do not even need money, could get even bigger and bigger loans, because they are trusted to be able to pay back (odds shows huge companies are the ones who bankrupt and default on their loans a lot more often so banks are wrong) whereas a small business owner would not be able to get any loans at all.

This is why I believe that while whitepaper may or may not state something, "what" something is and how it is used are different things and this is why I believe that it is a special situation.


Title: Re: Regulations Not Working as Planned??
Post by: Synchronice on May 07, 2024, 11:00:03 AM
Regulations are to control money flow but in Bitcoin's case it's very different. Regulations let exchanges to ask their users so submit KYC every time they deposit money but there have been many cases when exchanges asked users to submit KYC for no legit reason and they didn't even release user's funds when they submitted every document that exchange demanded. If there was more care for users and exchanges didn't have all the rights and the ability to run business from offshores, then that would be good.

however regulations actually allow services to police the customers to then allow the service to evade themselves being liable for the illicit acts of their customers
You described it well!


Title: Re: Regulations Not Working as Planned??
Post by: bSpend on May 07, 2024, 11:19:20 AM
Regulations Not Working?

Do you think it is true, that right now with the governments, banks “powers that be” in attempt to Gain control of BTC and other cryptos.
They are trying to put into regulations etc. Yet there are troubles to making the cryptos as “securities”
With all the lawsuits “they “ try to put onto the crypto companies. Has not worked in the “favour” of the powers that be?
Is this true?

Does this prove that the blockchain tech is a success?

That BTC could work as a money system for the people and help people to devalue FIAT currency?

Or am I wrong and the “powers that be” are winning  and people will lose in the crypto world?

Your thoughts?
Bitcoin has always been a success the moment it gained value and people started choosing it for investment over several other assets that's been in existence for decades now and well recognized by the government, this includes precious stones like gold, silver and so on.

Isn't the success of bitcoin and the entire cryptocurrency ecosystem the reason why government became interested in it in the first place?.
And what I can tell us all is that, the government's quest to regulate bitcoin and crypto at large was actually a plot for them to gain control over the entire system, but right now, I think they are amazed at what they saw, they are amazed and overwhelmed at what theyve seen man is capable of building, and how helpless they are..
This is why they appear frustrated, and since they can't really do much, they've turned to lawsuits as a way to try to fight those who are helping push crypto to the masses through various means.

What I did say is that, the main battle have not actually began, we should all get set, they will fight and give up themselves, rest assured that Bitcoin have succeeded already, we are here for a really long ride.


Title: Re: Regulations Not Working as Planned??
Post by: Silberman on May 07, 2024, 06:16:51 PM
I won't say that it's right or wrong but I wanted to share my thoughts on it.
The government is in power because they are the party who runs the country with rules as a supporting force in regulating all aspects.
I'm trying to interpret that the legal requirements you are referring to are about loopholes that are used for actions such as money laundering.

Because Bitcoin runs on its own rules with the intention of not harming the government, for me whatever rules they make will not make Bitcoin controlled. Regarding their success in taking advantage of crypto institutions and controlling crypto with their power, I think the fiat currency system should not be involved with Bitcoin which has its own system that does not take care of the fiat bank system.
It is not that simple, while bitcoin runs a system that is parallel to the fiat one, since the fiat system was basically a monopoly, then it is obvious that governments are doing what they can to make it very difficult for bitcoin to keep existing parallel to it, this is why you see governments passing all kind of laws and using the media to discredit bitcoin, as they do not want people to believe that bitcoin can survive long term, will they succeed? Who knows, but governments are definitely trying.


Title: Re: Regulations Not Working as Planned??
Post by: KingsDen on May 07, 2024, 06:37:59 PM
That BTC could work as a money system for the people and help people to devalue FIAT currency?
Bitcoin was never created to devalue the fiat. Satoshi stated it clearly that he created bitcoin to save as an alternative to fiat. If you don't like the fiat way, atleast you have another way to toe and if the bitcoin way is affecting fiat, it wasn't intended.

alot of people think/assume/hoped that regulations were about consumer protections to avoid centralised services facilitating illegal activities that can cause other innocent customers to be abused and lose value due to bad acts of the services
That's the concept they sold to us, little did we know that this regulation will have no specific direction. It could go against the centralised services more than the people.


Title: Re: Regulations Not Working as Planned??
Post by: Dunamisx on May 07, 2024, 06:43:18 PM
Regulations Not Working?

Do you think it is true, that right now with the governments, banks “powers that be” in attempt to Gain control of BTC and other cryptos.

In cryptocurrencies, just take this difference as something you will need to understand with them all, not all cryptos are the same, bitcoin cannot be regulated in cryptocurrencies, altcoins can be regulated because they are centralized, government can be raking attacks upon attacks on any centralized crypto exchange or coins, but they cannot hypnotized bitcoin because its under a decentralized digital network.


Title: Re: Regulations Not Working as Planned??
Post by: Mr.right85 on May 07, 2024, 07:00:50 PM
Regulations Not Working?

Do you think it is true, that right now with the governments, banks “powers that be” in attempt to Gain control of BTC and other cryptos.
They are trying to put into regulations etc. Yet there are troubles to making the cryptos as “securities”
With all the lawsuits “they “ try to put onto the crypto companies. Has not worked in the “favour” of the powers that be?
Is this true?

Does this prove that the blockchain tech is a success?

That BTC could work as a money system for the people and help people to devalue FIAT currency?
You don’t get to win all the wars eventually, you win some and you lose some. Obviously, what is projected is the fact that, it can’t be properly taxed and not all users of Bitcoin or cryptocurrencies use it for the right reasons. Some use it for illegal purposes but, the government chose to tie this not to the poeple themselves but to Bitcoin or cryptocurrency as a whole.
Given the deductions that could come out of cases like this when brought up, your sure to be guilty of some charges.

Still, I can’t say the government are winning. Where they could win is having to change the mind of Bitcoin or cryptocurrency users towards the innovation but, this is far from being achieved. They are finding loopholes eventually and these loopholes are continually been filled with new services and means to privacy/security in the space.

Also, the blockchain technology isn’t just for Bitcoin or cryptocurrency. It’s just another way of keeping ledger.


Title: Re: Regulations Not Working as Planned??
Post by: Mame89 on May 07, 2024, 07:37:12 PM
Many governments are trying to control the circulation of Bitcoin in their countries - the one we hear most often is the US, this is the country that most passionately wants to control Bitcoin in their country. And they were successful at that. Just look at how the exchange operates there, you will be able to see how the exchange is closely monitored by the SEC and they cannot do things outside of SEC regulations. If there is an exchange platform that is not regulated and operates there, then the owner of the platform could be punished, wherever in the world he is. That's one example of how governments regulate Bitcoin, and we haven't discussed other countries yet.
Yes that's right. All powerful countries are always trying to control Bitcoin but in reality they are still not completely successful. So it is not surprising that all exchanges in America are supervised by the SEC. I have always believed that one of the initial reasons for the creation of bitcoin was because some people no longer believed in the decentralized world financial system of the Fed, IMF, Word Bank et al. So it's no wonder why countries have always tried to fight bitcoin until now.

Just imagine that they are private but can regulate the value of dollars, euros and other countries' currencies. It doesn't even just regulate the value of world currencies which are both in the form of paper. They can also print as many dollars as they want without having to reserve a corresponding amount of gold. With the group's decentralized fiat money financial system, they can rob and even blackmail the country through finances. So I believe that the more countries that want to control bitcoin or try to control it, the more people are interested in bitcoin, the rarer it becomes, and the more expensive it will be.


Title: Re: Regulations Not Working as Planned??
Post by: Rengga Jati on May 07, 2024, 08:41:29 PM
Regulations Not Working?
Not not working at all, but not running that smoothly.
There is a saying that the existence of regulations is meant to be violated or not to comply with those regulations.
Maybe this is one of them.

However, this doesn't mean it really doesn't work. because of some systems, it works quite smoothly. It's just that, sometimes it doesn't work in certain situations. When it comes to banking and cryptocurrency regulations, with blockchain technology being able to make banking stakeholders confused by the concept of digital currency, they will actually tighten regulations regarding several things. And it seems to be successful in several countries. because these rules will certainly be enough to regulate the space for blockchain movement and development, and they will definitely want to regulate it because they want to immediately control it. But it's true, it won't work 100% because blockchain is more than that. There will still be gaps where people will work outside of regulations and regulations will not work for them.


Title: Re: Regulations Not Working as Planned??
Post by: oktana on May 07, 2024, 10:03:55 PM
They can't control every aspect of Bitcoin and they don't need to. The want to control how average joe uses Bitcoin, and that's very easy to achieve - just set the rules for exchanges and other big services and that's it, because most people interact with Bitcoin through them. There's no need for sophisticated plots to take over Bitcoin mining or development if for 99% of people Bitcoin is useless when it can't be converted into $$ in their bank account.

You’ve forgotten there’s decentralized exchanges too? Well, if they make centralized exchanges feel too strict with too much rules, you’d watch people move to other centralized exchanges with better rules, and if there’s none, it will be a good thing because there will be surge in the use of decentralized exchanges. One of the things to know is that there’s always a way around it, especially if it’s technical.


Title: Re: Regulations Not Working as Planned??
Post by: khalidkhan82118 on May 08, 2024, 08:40:03 AM
Regulations Not Working?

Do you think it is true, that right now with the governments, banks “powers that be” in attempt to Gain control of BTC and other cryptos.
They are trying to put into regulations etc. Yet there are troubles to making the cryptos as “securities”
With all the lawsuits “they “ try to put onto the crypto companies. Has not worked in the “favour” of the powers that be?
Is this true?

Does this prove that the blockchain tech is a success?

That BTC could work as a money system for the people and help people to devalue FIAT currency?

Or am I wrong and the “powers that be” are winning  and people will lose in the crypto world?

Your thoughts?
The regulatory landscape around cryptocurrencies is complex. Attempts to control them face challenges due to their decentralized nature. While this highlights blockchain's potential, it also brings regulatory uncertainty. Whether Bitcoin becomes a widespread monetary system remains uncertain amidst this evolving environment.


Title: Re: Regulations Not Working as Planned??
Post by: kryptqnick on May 08, 2024, 05:17:04 PM
Thinking of Bitcoin as an enemy of fiat isn't very realistic and isn't very productive nowadays. It's a zero-sum mindset idea that Bitcoin can or should cause loss of value of fiat currencies, whereas, in reality, there can be a lot of win-win situations. Let's face it: fiat is still a relevant mainstream idea, and monetary policies as well as great integration with banks has its pros for users. Fiat can be stable, online transactions can be instant and free or very cheap. There are exceptions and regional differences, but the desire for stability and reliability shouldn't be underestimated. Bitcoin is an alternative currency that provides more financial freedom, and it's also a good asset. They can coexist, with or without regulations, and regulations aren't bad per se.


Title: Re: Regulations Not Working as Planned??
Post by: HideYourKeys on May 08, 2024, 05:45:59 PM
They cannot control every part of bitcoin, if people get more educated, they will learn ways to avoid all these KYC methods


Title: Re: Regulations Not Working as Planned??
Post by: m2017 on May 08, 2024, 06:34:28 PM
Regulations Not Working?
It will start working soon.

Do you think it is true, that right now with the governments, banks “powers that be” in attempt to Gain control of BTC and other cryptos.
This seems to be true if you look at the actions of the SEC and the different (but with similar goals) laws adopted by countries.

They are trying to put into regulations etc. Yet there are troubles to making the cryptos as “securities”
Well, I think that this is a problem for the regulator and, with the proper desire, this status can easily be assigned to cryptocurrencies.

With all the lawsuits “they “ try to put onto the crypto companies. Has not worked in the “favour” of the powers that be?
Is this true?
Why didn't it work? Did Zuckerberg (Meta) manage to launch his Libra coin? Nope. Here's your answer.

Does this prove that the blockchain tech is a success?
You jump from one topic to another. Of course, this technology is successful, but what does it have to do with the discussion of cryptocurrency regulation?

That BTC could work as a money system for the people and help people to devalue FIAT currency?
Bitcoin may work as a monetary system, but currently (and perhaps forever thanks to large investment investors) operates as an investment financial asset.

Or am I wrong and the “powers that be” are winning  and people will lose in the crypto world?
In any type of activity, the strongest win. You should know that the end justifies the means.

Your thoughts?
After reading your post, the only thought I have is that you should do a better job of structuring and expressing your thoughts.


Title: Re: Regulations Not Working as Planned??
Post by: Cookdata on May 08, 2024, 07:32:04 PM
Do you think it is true, that right now with the governments, banks “powers that be” in attempt to Gain control of BTC and other cryptos.
They are trying to put into regulations etc. Yet there are troubles to making the cryptos as “securities”
With all the lawsuits “they “ try to put onto the crypto companies. Has not worked in the “favour” of the powers that be?
Is this true?

They might called it regulations but to me, I think they are trying to shadow Bitcoin, what makes Bitcoin a real Bitcoin apart from the label of been security. If I remember correctly, Bitcoin as security has been thrown, only majority of alts are been considered as securities and the SEC release a list of crypto they regarded as security but Ethereum and Bitcoin weren't included in that list but the government hunt down on some crypto platforms is making Bitcoin becoming a shadow.

Quote
Does this prove that the blockchain tech is a success?

That BTC could work as a money system for the people and help people to devalue FIAT currency?

Or am I wrong and the “powers that be” are winning  and people will lose in the crypto world?

Your thoughts?

There is no need for a soothsayer to tell if Bitcoin/blockchain tech is a success, it's has been launch since 2009 and has never for once go off, else they would have used that to ridicule it many times. However, the government is hunting down everything that is making Bitcoin decentralized, mixers are now hidding and can't work anymore, miners are been restricted and that undermine the security of Bitcoin, even the exchange both centralized and decentralized ones are not left out. This is not regulation but gradual degrading of Bitcoin from mainstream.