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Title: Wallets supporting Silent Payments Post by: dkbit98 on May 17, 2024, 09:11:25 AM Silent Payments are interesting new form of Bitcoin addresses that allows preserving privacy with one reusable address.
All Silent Payment bitcoin addresses are starting with sp1 and they can be considered as stealth addresses or reusable payment codes. Only the sender and receiver can connect Silent Payment address address with on-chain activity, so this makes it perfect for donations purposes as a single address. Every time you receive coins with Silent Payment they will end up in new bitcoin address, so there is no more address reuse. Silent Payments was originally proposed by Ruben Somsen as BIP-0352 back in 2022, but this year they are really kicking off and wallets are starting to implement it. https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/blob/master/bip-0352.mediawiki Here is example how Silent Payment addresses look Quote sp1qq0rdyln9cwthvkyd7z7yq5kcpdhlc70h5u9tk2v8dja0gm684twxsqsls3j3phhlg0gnkawqeqq p20q03en269hg26g2fw03tzrc9g75zuume85y Wallets currently supporting Silent Payments:
Title: Re: Wallets supporting Silent Payments Post by: Charles-Tim on May 17, 2024, 09:57:49 AM I am not using a SeedSigner, but which is one of the safest cold storage that can be used. I am not using a web wallet, but Silentium wallet is a web wallet. I wanted to try how it would work on Cake wallet and I decided to download it but I saw this malware warning which made me uninstall the wallet immediately:
https://www.talkimg.com/images/2024/05/17/1kXRZ.jpeg I have not seen this warning before, but I can not risk it. Or what do you think about installing it? Bluewallet is working (https://github.com/BlueWallet/SilentPayments) on silent payment and I am looking forward to see a release of an update that will support it. I hope Electrum and other reputable wallets also will support it. Title: Re: Wallets supporting Silent Payments Post by: Pmalek on May 17, 2024, 01:52:40 PM Foundation Passport has also announced that they are planning to introduce support for BIP351 and Silent Payments. They plan to integrate it with both Envoy and the Passport hardware wallet in the future. Of course, it's not added yet, but just something for you to keep an eye on.
Title: Re: Wallets supporting Silent Payments Post by: KingsDen on May 21, 2024, 10:54:39 AM Every time you receive coins with Silent Payment they will end up in new bitcoin address, so there is no more address reuse. This means the wallet keeps generating different addresses which interacts with the blockchain while allowing the user to maintain 1 addy from their own end. How will the blockchain analysis be?Here is example how Silent Payment addresses look Why is it a way longer than the usual addresses?Quote sp1qq0rdyln9cwthvkyd7z7yq5kcpdhlc70h5u9tk2v8dja0gm684twxsqsls3j3phhlg0gnkawqeqq p20q03en269hg26g2fw03tzrc9g75zuume85y Title: Re: Wallets supporting Silent Payments Post by: Pmalek on May 21, 2024, 03:53:31 PM This means the wallet keeps generating different addresses which interacts with the blockchain while allowing the user to maintain 1 addy from their own end. How will the blockchain analysis be? Each payment on the blockchain will look like any other Taproot payment. Third parties wouldn't be able to look at the on-chain data and recognize that it's a payment made to a silent payment address. Silent payments require more work on the receiver's end to scan the blockchain and recognize that payments were sent their way. The way I understood it, people running their own nodes will benefit in the speed of scanning compared to those relying on SPV clients. Someone correct me if I am wrong.Title: Re: Wallets supporting Silent Payments Post by: SquirrelJulietGarden on May 21, 2024, 04:21:56 PM Here is example how Silent Payment addresses look Why is it a way longer than the usual addresses?Quote sp1qq0rdyln9cwthvkyd7z7yq5kcpdhlc70h5u9tk2v8dja0gm684twxsqsls3j3phhlg0gnkawqeqq p20q03en269hg26g2fw03tzrc9g75zuume85y https://bitcoinwiki.org/wiki/cryptonote How to recognize different crypto address types (https://hackernoon.com/educational-byte-what-is-a-crypto-address-and-how-to-recognize-different-types) Quote Monero addresses start with 4 and 8, and are even longer: 95 characters. Example: 4AdUndXHHZ6cfufTMvppY6JwXNouMBzSkbLYfpAV5Usx3skxNgYeYTRj5UzqtReoS44qo9mtmXCqY45 DJ852K5Jv2684Rge The sp1 address above has more than 95 characters, it has 116 characters. Title: Re: Wallets supporting Silent Payments Post by: BlackHatCoiner on May 21, 2024, 04:27:29 PM Why is it a way longer than the usual addresses? For the same reason Monero addresses are longer. Because, it encodes two public keys. One which is used to spend the bitcoin, and another which is used to scan the bitcoin. Think of it like this:
Read more about it in here: https://monero.stackexchange.com/a/1535/17055. It's how a stealth address works, which is very similar to how a silent payment address works. The way I understood it, people running their own nodes will benefit in the speed of scanning compared to those relying on SPV clients. Someone correct me if I am wrong. That's correct. When a sender pays you silently, you don't know where your bitcoin is, unless you check for all incoming transactions and perform the necessary operations. That's a burden for SPV clients, because they somehow need to be aware of all incoming transactions (that matter*). * not all transactions can be silent payments, so there are a lot of exclusions the server can make. Title: Re: Wallets supporting Silent Payments Post by: SquirrelJulietGarden on May 22, 2024, 03:52:06 AM Why is it a way longer than the usual addresses? For the same reason Monero addresses are longer. Because, it encodes two public keys.This explains with many details on differences among Bitcoin address types and length (total characters of each address type). At the bottom of article, it has a Reference table that summarize explanations very well. An example of difference is Segwit single signature address will have 42 characters but a multisig address will have 62 characters. Title: Re: Wallets supporting Silent Payments Post by: Pmalek on May 22, 2024, 03:45:32 PM * not all transactions can be silent payments, so there are a lot of exclusions the server can make. Correct. Only taproot transactions can be silent payments. So a server can skip anything that isn't a taproot output. Servers can also skip any taproot output below a certain size. That rules out the on-chain spam like Runes and Ordinals probably (not sure which of these two attack vectors use taproot). Finally, there could be an option to scan only taproot outputs after a certain date or block height. If you generated your silent payment address last week, there is no need to have your client scan anything older than that because you can't possibly receive a payment before you had a silent payment address. More details are covered in these docs: https://silentpayments.xyz/docs/explained/ Title: Re: Wallets supporting Silent Payments Post by: KingsDen on May 22, 2024, 05:26:22 PM The way I understood it, people running their own nodes will benefit in the speed of scanning compared to those relying on SPV clients. Someone correct me if I am wrong. That's correct. When a sender pays you silently, you don't know where your bitcoin is, unless you check for all incoming transactions and perform the necessary operations. That's a burden for SPV clients, because they somehow need to be aware of all incoming transactions (that matter*). * not all transactions can be silent payments, so there are a lot of exclusions the server can make. Thanks BlackHatCoiner for the detailed explanation of why the address appeared longer than normal. Title: Re: Wallets supporting Silent Payments Post by: Pmalek on May 25, 2024, 07:40:45 AM Obviously a little kind of burden to SPV clients. However, when adoption increases, such discrepancies will fade away just like as it was with bc1 addresses. I don't think it will. A full node stores the entire blockchain record locally and it's, therefore, easier and quicker for it to go and check all the transactions that could belong to you. SPV clients don't have this information locally (you don't have a record of the blockchain on your computer), so they will need more time and bandwidth to verify everything. Title: Re: Wallets supporting Silent Payments Post by: BlackHatCoiner on May 25, 2024, 07:56:00 AM That rules out the on-chain spam like Runes and Ordinals probably (not sure which of these two attack vectors use taproot). Runes use OP_RETURN, Ordinals use Taproot. Fungible tokens are trash and a waste of money, don’t get me wrong. However, Runes are not an attack vector, as they implement similar protocols in a much more efficient manner. SPV clients don't have this information locally (you don't have a record of the blockchain on your computer), so they will need more time and bandwidth to verify everything. If you've used Monero in an SPV client, then it's similar process. Feather, as an example, fetches blockchain data from default servers, and unless you've lost your block height, syncing does not take a lot of time to finish. In fact, in Bitcoin, it'll be much faster because the servers will only send you Taproot transactions. Title: Re: Wallets supporting Silent Payments Post by: Pmalek on May 25, 2024, 03:34:41 PM Fungible tokens are trash and a waste of money, don’t get me wrong. However, Runes are not an attack vector, as they implement similar protocols in a much more efficient manner. What I said was subjective. I consider them an attack vector because I see them as intentional spam meant to fill up blocks with garbage and keep out genuine use from people not willing to play along and overpay their transactions hundreds or thousands of times. Not to mention the scam side of them for tricking gullible know-nothings into investing in such crap. Title: Re: Wallets supporting Silent Payments Post by: nc50lc on May 27, 2024, 08:01:52 AM This almost made it to Bitcoin Core's next major release v28 but was dropped from the priority list to be replaced by another update.
There's a "Tracking Issue" for those who want to see when this will get implemented in the reference client, currently at 4/15 tasks completed. Link: BIP352 tracking issue (issue# 28536) (https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/28536) Title: Re: Wallets supporting Silent Payments Post by: satscraper on May 28, 2024, 05:12:17 AM Foundation Passport has also announced that they are planning to introduce support for BIP351 and Silent Payments. They plan to integrate it with both Envoy and the Passport hardware wallet in the future. Of course, it's not added yet, but just something for you to keep an eye on. They were talking about Silent Payments but referring to BIP351 rather than relevant BIP352. BIP351 and BIP352 are two different stuff which address the same problem but have differing approach for resolving it. Thus, still it is unclear (at least for me) what exactly Foundation has in mind. I have pointed on this discrepancy (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5441422.msg64088595#msg64088595) in their official thread but no answer jet. UPD. Finally they made this issue clear. The reference for BIP351 was the mislead from their part and Passport will implement BIP352. Yes, I meant 352! Edited my post now. Title: Re: Wallets supporting Silent Payments Post by: NotATether on May 30, 2024, 08:07:58 AM This almost made it to Bitcoin Core's next major release v28 but was dropped from the priority list to be replaced by another update. There's a "Tracking Issue" for those who want to see when this will get implemented in the reference client, currently at 4/15 tasks completed. Link: BIP352 tracking issue (issue# 28536) (https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/28536) This is incredible! I am sure that this feature will make it into many different software wallets once Bitcoin Core implements it. And this is not something that can be banned or anything because it's literally just using bitcoin addresses in a way that cannot be tracked by chain analysis. It will be very useful for privacy the more you think about it. We needed an answer to this maelstrom and now we have it. Title: Re: Wallets supporting Silent Payments Post by: dkbit98 on May 30, 2024, 05:00:05 PM Cake wallet just released new beta version of their desktop wallet for wind0ws and linux os, and they added Silent Payments for Bitcoin!
Anyone wanting to test silent payment please tell me and we can do test transaction between two of us. This is still beta version and bugs are possible so please use smaller amounts. Cake desktop wallet now also support Monero. Cake wallet latest release: https://github.com/cake-tech/cake_wallet/releases/tag/v4.18.0 And this is not something that can be banned or anything because it's literally just using bitcoin addresses in a way that cannot be tracked by chain analysis. They can still be tracked, so this is not a perfect privacy solution for bitcoin, but it is still a big improvement.Title: Re: Wallets supporting Silent Payments Post by: cygan on June 04, 2024, 12:23:07 PM the devs from the hardware wallet Bitbox2 are working on integrating sending to a silent payment address :)
Quote bitcoin: support sending to silent payment addresses https://github.com/BitBoxSwiss/bitbox02-firmware/pull/1220 (https://github.com/BitBoxSwiss/bitbox02-firmware/pull/1220)Title: Re: Wallets supporting Silent Payments Post by: Forsyth Jones on June 07, 2024, 04:28:39 PM If I understand correctly how silent payments in bitcoin work in practice:
When the recipient provides a silent payment address to the sender, does the sender actually combine some keys and will this key result in a public address of the recipient's wallet that only he (the recipient) knows? Is this silent payment address reusable with privacy and security? It reminded me of BIP47, as it is similar. FOR THE SENDER What three keys are these? I think this article was not very clear in explaining how silent payments work.When someone wants to send funds to a Silent Payment address, in practice all they’ll need to do is scan or copy/paste the payment code into their favorite wallet (assuming it is supported), and send the payment as usual. But what exactly is happening behind the scenes? When the sender enters the Silent Payment address into their wallet, their wallet will combine three keys to create a unique, one-time address that only the intended recipient can spend from. This unique address is created by combining the public key (or “address,” in layman’s terms) of one of the inputs that the sender wants to spend to the recipient, the public key of the recipient (contained in the Silent Payment address), and a “shared secret” key the sender generates that only the sender and recipient know. Thanks to something known as the “commutative” property in cryptography, the sender can combine these keys but cannot spend from the resulting address, as they don’t know the recipient’s private key (of course). |
