Bitcoin Forum

As House Edge or Expected Value.

What percentage do you think they are?

It's hard to get an estimate right but I'd say it's pretty high, like more than 50% of those who write here. So it is understandable that every now and then we are seeing threads about someone who believes he has found a new variant of the Martingale with which he is going to beat the house.

There are also those who think that if in a site with an HE of 2% if for your VIP status they reduce their HE by 10%, they are giving them a negative HE (or a positive Expected Value) of 8%, instead of realizing that what they have reduced is the original HE from 2% to 1.8%.

Many have some idea of the concepts and use them to write here to meet their quota but do not really understand them.

Even for the top VIP accounts there's never a positive return to player. There's no casino that will allow any player to have more returns than losses simply by wagering. It never happens.

Many people are simply fooled by the vip programs. Yes, some sites are more generous than others but we have to realize that it's not a realistic expectation to expect at some point to be earning more than losing simply by playing at a casino. Even if you reach the highest VIP level, which means you lost millions, the casino is even st that point going to have a house edge against you. Maybe with the bonuses the house edge is lower, but never positive.

I agree. The EVs will always be negative even when the house edge is reduced.

Even though I don't have a VIP account on any casino, what I know is that compared with regular accounts, that a lower house edge for them just means reduced losses. Their expected value is still on the negatives negative.

Bonuses, promos, free spins do not reduce the house edge or turn the EVs to positives, they only reduce the risks of the player involved.

Of course experienced players understand that no amount of effort you make that will make you consistently win above the casino even though you win at some point, at other times you lose more than you won. Likewise, those newbies coming up with new strategies of martingale or whatnots, they could just win few times with what strategy they got and later the winning discontinues. As far as you are gambling, you don't have a percentage of higher winning rate than the house even with VIP account, this is the reality about gambling.

Personally I believe gambling is gambling so there is no position whether VIP, Legendary etc that can make me feel I'm above others or I have espace the loss, we all are prone to losing to the casino.

if one knows the ratio which goes to the house edge on most of the game it only helps then avoid playing some kind of game as they are even enrich the casino whether they win or lost which loses the casino is still going to gain either ways.  when I see people saying they can do all sorts of things and escape the fence of casinos I just laugh and ignore because they are either ignorant or something.

people who play Blackjack are a bit better than others because they avoid the high advantages which the casinos have over the players.

I understand what house edge is and I also understand why expected value is, but I do not really understand how to practically use them while gambling. Only what I understand about them is that they are existing in a way that the gambling and betting sites set them which to make the game and matches to favour them and not gamblers unless if they make a mistake. Example is in some matches in sport, they make the mistake and not calculate the expected value accurately to set the odd properly at times.

I have no idea casinos can actually reduce the HE of their games for VIP members. But the fact that they can do this, there is no stopping them from adjusting HE for all. But do we have options to check the HE for our regular account?


Yep all we are focused on is just to win in a game. To me I'm just in a sports but not even a regular but only bet on main events.

In the glittering realm of casinos,amidst the allure of flashing lights and the adrenaline rush of high-stakes games,there's an undeniable truth that often eludes many hopeful players which is the house always wins.This unwavering principle,rooted in the mathematics of probability,ensures that even the most skilled or fortunate of players will ultimately succumb to the relentless advantage held by the house over the long run.
Simply put,it's the statistical advantage that the casino holds over the players in any given game.While it may vary depending on the game and its rules,make no mistake as there is no game where the odds favor the player over the house in the long run.
In the popular game of Texas Hold'em poker for example,where players pit their wits and strategies against each other in pursuit of the elusive pot of winnings.Despite the illusion of player to player competition,the house still manages to secure its share of profit through implemented fees.Whether it's the rake in cash games or the tournament fees in competitive play,these seemingly innocuous charges tilt the scales in favor of the house,ensuring that a portion of every pot flows back into its coffers.
Everybody or almost everybody knows these basic concepts yet they want to try because the max win in a good slot machine makes these walls put in place by the casino to be always in profit look like walls of sand.

Exactly, there's no way that the house will let themselves take the L no matter how much they say that they love their VIP players or patrons? That's just a lie to perpetrate the belief that they care about the customers and that they don't cheat you in any way but that's not the case, gambling is a lucrative business that generates the owners, billions if not millions of dollars every year, do you think that they would be able to do that if they really care about their players, the one that will care the most will be the first one that's going to go out of business, that's the truth.

Many have seen gamblers whose VIP accounts show big wins but do not show their losses. Meanwhile for nonVIP it seems like the chances are very minimal, but it turns out that if you think back, it's all just mere speculation, where both nonVIP and VIP accounts have the same chance if you play luck-based games, it cannot be denied that in different games, House Edge only takes 1% for example from the $100 we play. I'm not interested in taking a VIP account, as the goal is just to play so I don't have a target to focus on one casino until I reach a high level.

As a rule, the casino provides an explanation regarding the House Edge percentage for VIP < nonVIP accounts. But until now, if I am a non-VIP, if I count VIP, the difference in losses is not much different. In some places there are many activities that sell VIP accounts, if that rule is true why do they sell them? Doesn't House Edge just take a smaller % of profits than nonVIP accounts?

Every successful gambler knows that always winning the house is not possible, the house got a higher edge and out of 10 different players, the house would always win about 7 and lose to 3 people therefore every gamblers aim shouldn't be to constantly beat the house cause it's impossible but to avoid series of losing streaks, cause I noticed that numerous losing streaks could lead to addiction.

 Since gambling is a business I wonder why some gamblers don't realise that no business man would always want to be on the losing side, as you're bringing up strategies to beat them, they're always developing strategies of making different gamblers strategies not last for a long while else they'll mostly and go bankrupt, imagine millions of bettors winning huge profits on a regular.

There are some privileges that casinos do give to the VIPs that they have. But you're right, it is not more than the potential win that they can get so, it's still under the lines of their losses.

But that feeling of what the casinos offer for VIPs looks great whenever you do. At the end of the day, it's still business for them and you as a VIP understands that but still have that privilege and some incentives coming.

As soon as I understood that, I stopped playing longer in one game with the same amount. There's no such thing as winning by running the game 24 hours either in casino games or in slots. It's not wise to do that. Just get that lucky shot and then get out. If you play through, you will just end up losing all the profits and whatever you do, there will be a hard time to win and you will just get frustrated in it.

I found a gambling site that puts the number of how much percentage their RTP is but I doubt it is real. I tried to play for like 2 hours and all I saw was my balance going down slowly until everything was depleted. I stopped playing on that site because I was literally frustrated with their RTP.
I'd rather just increase my wagered amount on a popular site by putting a high percentage of winning chance in Dice and maybe get some tickets for the raffles and the bonuses they offer.

In my case, for example, I don't know much about House Edge and I don't even research it, I also don't focus much on having high VIP accounts, I don't research how to increase my VIP account level quickly, I don't research winning strategies in the gambling, because I realized early on that there was no point in researching all this. I just focused on knowing how to manage my bankroll well and understanding everything about sports betting so that I can look at a game and choose the best market for me to bet on and the best odds. but even though I made an effort to know this, I still don't see sports betting as something that would make a profit, I bet just for fun

It’s just an example by the OP to emphasize the impact of House Edge to EV but casino doesn’t offer lower house edge for higher VIP ranks since it’s very hard to adjust the house edge of games on each players depending on their VIP level.

Casino just increases the rakeback percentage and cashback but the house edge remain intact on each game so in reality the EV will still negative like what the OP said.

Some people on the gambling discussion really doesn’t understand how house edge works thinking that removing house edge will give player an advantage/+EV automatically.

But at some point we could conveyed that VIP status adds some winning rate. They make that feature for additional benefit isnt it? Yes gambling has a risk so these layers are added to make the percentage increases. When we used online casino for sure they set it up or coded to have an increase on bonus or something to let you gain more unless thats only an ads or trick.

Some members of this section are seasonal gamblers, while others are even non-gamers; they don't really have professional knowledge about gambling but are only writing based on the little knowledge they have about gambling. It's crystal clear that most members here are into promoting a casino with their signature space, which compels them to make a good number of posts in this section.

I'm very sure that no player is privileged enough to surpass the house edge set by the casinos. No matter if that person reaches highest VIP status, the house edge will still be there and it won't be easy for him/her to overcome the losses that happen because of the house edge.

Casinos make money because of the house edge that they set and if they drop it to 0.5% or below than that then most players will have consistent wins and I'm 100% sure that if something like that happens then all casinos will be bankrupt and they will have nothing in their bankroll to pay the winners.

As far as gambling is concern, the house edge will always be certain, while the players will definitely face the high risk to lose. Regardless if you have VIP account or not, still that won’t change the fact that gambling profits will mostly go to the house while leaving the players struggle to win some decent gains. Otherwise, if it’s going to be the other way around, hence giving all these players the opportunities to win, gambling as a business will never stay longer in the market.

It’s weird to see people in this section do not understand the basic concept about gambling and yet they are still here posting their comments. I don’t think we have the right to judge them as they are here for a reason and when we say basic it’s very simple not to understand. The moment you make a reply here, for me that’s already a good basic knowledge where you don’t have to be a professional gambler as many here are just an occasional gambler.

Let me say that you right, but like you said, it's very understandable why.

Like I think I've once mentioned in one of my comments on this board, I said it boldly that, if not that majorly all the casino signature ad campaigns on this forum makes it mandatory for their participants to make atleast, 10 post on this gambling board, many users would never bother posting here since like you said, they know nothing about gambling totally, I've come across some users posting on this board whom after reading their comment, I concluded in my mind that this ones are not gamblers, but are pretending to be.

While on the other hand as well, I also think we also have some users who actually do gamble, but still lack some basic knowledge of how things really work, it's like knowing  how to drive a car, that is, being a very good driver, but lack the basic knowledge of how the car engine functions mechanically - I think I full in this category, since I don't really understand everything about gambling, but I do gamble from time to time.

I guess gamblers know the basic concept, but what you put is not basic though, IMHO.

And as a gambler, do you really need to go to all of this and make it complicated? I don't think so, the moment they play, they just look to win regardless of what the house edge or expected value is.

So don't blame the gamblers, here, and no matter what kind of explanation we will give to them, they will not or will ignore this concept and just play, have some fun, and take the lost.

The casino is not a charity organization donating free money to random people who visit the casino, it is a business! Casino operators are not dumb, they have already structured their businesses in such a way that profits comes in always. Some gamblers might doubt this but believe me, no gambler earns more than the casino.  You might be winning now and feeling you are getting from the casino, but if you look at it very well, you will realise that you've lost more than you earned, the house always has an edge over the players.


Haha ;D, we just want to win and go our way, it doesn't really matter whether the house earns from it also. But, I think it is still necessary for gamblers to know about this and apply it in their daily gambling lives. The more they gamble, the more they enrich the casinos. This could help those who are conscious of this gamble moderately.

I doubt actually. Many people are aware of basic gambling concept but it is just gamblers who are not having enough  discipline to keep such idea in mind. No one requires us to gamble our money in the first place whether it is concerning house edge or not. Knowing or not knowing this fact about house edge won't stop a gambler from betting. They have bigger drives making their money bigger will always be on top of these disadvantages to them.
Definitely. And the idea is simply because online casinos are a form of business. You are embracing the risk to win your bet but a casino platform will always be winning not against you but with the services itself. You win, they will have profit, and same goes with when you are losing.
Many people are thinking that everytime they bet they are going against the casino but in reality they are just going against their fate and luck.

Most of them don't care about the HE. That is true, what they are after is if they can win or not. But there are few gamblers here that are very keen on HE, creating threads on how you can check or get the info relating to HE of every game inside the casino. Well, that's not bad at all. At least, inform the gamblers about the game itself, as most games have varying HE.

You will rarely see a gambler that will ask for HE of the game. That is true, most of them just plunge in and play. So they don't worry about the house edge of the game, but more on the provable fairness of the game.

Yeah, well, but if you're a casual gambler and don't understand the concepts you'd better not talk about them.


Is it that complicated, though? Something like being clear about the difference between long term and short term and understanding that if the HE is 2%, for every $100 bet, the long term return is going to be $98.

Or realize that casinos are not charities as Zoomic has said, and that if with bonuses and rakeback they are reducing your HE by 10%, it is not that you are going to win 8%, but that on the initial HE they are reducing 10% and it becomes 1.8%.

I don't see any posts about martingale in the Gambling forum right now. There were many posts about martingale several years ago.
Most gamblers aren't high IQ so it's kinda normal for them to seek some magical "gambling strategy" that will bring them consistent profits. ;D
A decent IQ level is also required to understand that 10% out of 2% is 0.2%. ;D Maybe some people have skipped Math classes in their teenage years.

I do suppose you don't really need to understand them in a sense? I mean understanding them doesn't really change anything, you'd just be aware of how much they're stealing from you but other than that, you'd still be playing all the same imo. Personally, that's how I'd value the knowledge that's on a similar level to House Edge. I actually don't think I know everything about all the gambling-related stuff to be fair though. Gotta agree that they should at least know that casinos aren't their friends though.

And isn't the 2nd example just a math problem? At least from how I see it you don't necessarily need the idea of what HE is.

In many gambling sites, they always unveil the House edge in each of their games. The 50% you are telling seems not a house edge anymore but it's like the winning chance already or the odds. There is also what we called as RTP that are mainly found in Slot games and they are usually estimated at over 90%. Even when we set our winning chance to the highest possible level, there will always be times that we will get defeated by the casino because they are designed for this, to profit.

If we will always think about this, we will easily ignore those who said that they have found a way to beat the casino but except only if those are a kind of hacks and exploits. We must still not get involved with it because it is not morally correct. Never came across a casino that are like that, that reduced the HE according to our VIP status. That's crazy and it may still not worth the chase.

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What I have observed these days among gamblers in this forum is, not fully understanding about sportsbetting odds or not switching to a house for better odds by simply sticking with same house and betting for lower profits even after someone notifying about better chances for more profits.