Bitcoin Forum

Cam across this news

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cn001yr88zgo

So a gentle reminder is to follow law with all your crypto related activities.

Even if laws are abusing and inhuman ?

Has already been a topic of discussion before here https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5498380.0 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5498380.0).

Please do your own research if a topic you want to talk about has already been discussed or not so redundancy and overcrowding of posts are not observed here. Especially if there aren't any new you can add anyway. You can just reply to the post if there is anything you want to say.

Well, she was actually committing a crime. I'm just buying and holding my BTC in OWNR wallet and it's not illegal in my country, so I'll be fine.

For holding you should have a dedicated air-gapped machine that's fully encrypted and using only official wallet software for accessing it - in terms of BTC - Bitcoin Core wallet.

If you use different software or hold in a hot wallet then sooner or later you'll get hacked.
Even developers get hacked from time to time... your main wallet (and seed phrases) should never touch the Internet - consider it compromised if it did.

It should be generated on air-gapped machine and kept there, make backups on encrypted drives with good enough password that you can remember (you should never write it down) and that will be hard to brute-force.
Never store your seed-phrase in plain-text, encrypt it and then print it.

The more you know about computers, the more you realize it's impossible to protect your Internet connected machine from threats.

I've read the story, and sorry to say, but this doesn't clearly have anything to do with us holding crypto currencies as our investments.
It's important to read and properly comprehend before making any attempt to jump into conclusion and giving advice that is not well thought out.

The woman in question was involved in exchanging bitcoin for luxury properties which are; but not limited to houses, expensive jewelries and other expensive belongings, that is, she was involved on trading bitcoin for this things, and also trading those for bitcoin, and from the story, she along the line got involved in laundering money, which is a very serious crime in most countries.
So, her bitcoin asset being seized and she being jailed is justified as long as she was proven guilty of the crime.

This has nothing to do with the most of us who hold unto our bitcoin as investment for our future.

There is no need to follow the law as long as what we do is in accordance with applicable norms, her case cannot be compared to those of us who should be free with bitcoin, she is a criminal and it is not actually his money so she deserves that punishment.

In our country, some big exchanges are not registered like Binance, but many of the bitcoin adopters in Indonesia use Binance as their CEX, is that wrong according to the law? Of course. But is it wrong according to the norm? No.

Let me write down here for other

"A former takeaway worker found with Bitcoin worth more than £2bn was jailed for six years and eight months for a crime linked to money laundering on Friday.
Jian Wen, 42, from Hendon, in north London, was involved in converting the currency into assets including multi-million-pound houses and jewellery.
At Southwark Crown court in March, she was convicted of entering into or becoming concerned in a money laundering arrangement.
The Metropolitan Police said at the time of the conviction the seizure was the largest of its kind in the UK."

So a former worker found Bitcoin that linked with money laundry and she used it but I do believe this is not regular found maybe she get order from her employee to converting the asset, because if you found a wallet there still a password and etc

Bitcoin makes use of a decentralized network, infact it is currently one of the best to be used in describing a decentralized network. However let's not forget that although decentralization is beneficial, it comes with some level of transparency and exposure which can pose negative effects. Take for example, a person's wallet can be monitored via any block chain explorer from transaction to transaction making it possible for some hackers to even pose common threats like dust attacks.

Personally I think a Bitcoin holder should keep not only his wallet keys and seed private, be he should also make sure his address isn't too exposed. Most of the time some person's link their holding wallet to an exchange and personally I think it isn't very safe. One of the reasons why Satoshi remains anonymous is because all the wallets he saved his mined Bitcoins in are anonymous and not linked to any exchange.

Anybody that hodl Bitcoin, legitimately don't have anything to worry about, it's not a criminal asset and that is why it's adoption is increasing everyday. Many investors have hodled Bitcoin for years and they've never had any issues with the authorities, so the lady that was convicted in the OP Link got into trouble because she used Bitcoin for money laundering which is a crime. Bitcoin is a decentralized digital cash that anybody can hodl, both the innocent and criminals, so when the criminals uses it for money laundering and they get caught, they pay the price for their criminal activities which has nothing to do with those that hodl it legitimately.

If bitcoin is from criminal acts or money laundering then it will be worried that this will trigger a lot of problems with local authorities, in my country several times citizens have been caught by the police because of cases of bitcoin theft or accounts that were broken into which were eventually caught.

So we buy bitcoin legally then it's nothing to worry about we can provide the source of funds from because it's to prove it, but with criminal acts then it will continue to be suspected usually they will not use CEX but a mixer to obscure the transaction.

This is a piece of old news in my view a couple of weeks ago there was a similar kind of news, hmm is it the same one? TBH here in my country Bitcoin accumulation and investment are not prohibited, so there's nothing wrong if I do hold Bitcoins.

Also, this was not an accumulation case, it seems like it was some sort of money laundering activity because I have heard of anyone revealing his/her identity after owning an amount of Bitcoin.

Currently, Bitcoin can be used legitimately without any problems. The number of Bitcoin transactions is increasing daily, and various activities are happening. Now everything is fine if bought correctly. Bitcoin transactions used to be a lot of trouble in our country. At one time in our country, the police seized illegal transactions, and a large amount of money was confiscated. But there is no such problem now.

However, for those who trade bitcoins and hold all these things, the holder must be very careful to store and keep their wallet keys secret. Otherwise, there may be problems if someone else knows or if it is linked to the holding.

It has been an issue always that countries are trying to put the marks of illegal on people who are earning good with crypto. Actually these super power colonies don't want a free nation. They just want that people should remain under their influence and give them heavy taxes.

Whoever will try to do something for freedom they will try to impose resistance to it and that's very natural now but we should fight for our right.

May 29, 2024 This news was published as stated in the article with brief content, although in the article there is another link to explain the news about it, but the link that directs to another article states the date March 21, 2024.

It is quite easy to corner Bitcoin with news like this in the midst of market movements experiencing difficulties.
Bitcoin is not a crime, but a currency. If the direction is towards unlawful actions, then the person is not Bitcoin.

A group of criminals who were using Bitcoin to hide their shady deals were caught and OP is starting a topic on hodling Bitcoin legally. We should praise these law enforcement agencies for tracking and uncovering these criminal activities. These sets of persons give the Bitcoin space a bad reputation because of these criminal activities. I read that Jian Wen was living a luxurious life with the proceeds of crime which led to suspicion.


Some governments are indeed anti-crypto, so they are doing everything possible to give the industry a bad name. News like this are usually overblown to gain more publicity. But in this case that OP mentioned it was proved that it was a proceed from crime. Some persons were duped in China Jian Wen helped the masterminders to launder the criminal proceeds.

If there is one brokerage company that is clearly a scam it is LASBERT.
Don't do business with them, unless you want to see your money gone.

First question how did they find the Bitcoin with her? Did she tell them about it or did they get access to her device and know she had such an amount of Bitcoin? This was not explained in the news at BBC.

I still find it very funny that she was jailed without any proof of money laundering activity that was mentioned. Just because they saw a huge amount in Bitcoin they are accusing her of money laundering. That's totally not fair.

I am not sure how they got to know she had such amount of coins in her possession , infact I really am not sure how authentic the news is. Anyways I just see this post as a reminder for Bitcoin hodlers to maintain maximum security of their holding wallets in any way possible. One of the easiest ways people can be traced via their wallet, is through a connection with their wallet to an exchange where they have previously done a KYC registration.
Things like this are the reason why people are adviced to understand certain important things , especially security before venturing the crypto space.
It's so sad that people in countries where crypto is viewed as illegal have to carry out crypto transactions hidden.

So, this topic is already discussed, so I would like to ask one question.
Why is the emphasis on crypto here?
So we shouldn't do anything illegal using cryptocurrency, but it's perfectly ok to do such things and get cash for it. This kind of dramatization gives the impression that crypto is exclusively used for fraud, illegal trade and the like, and in fact, it is up to the person and the use of cryptocurrency is just a tool.
It's like pointing out that the bank robber used Bridgestone tyres on the getaway vehicle. Finally, to make a point, be careful how you drive a car with Bridgestone tyres.

This type of stories is what makes other people and the government get their wrong ideas from. Well it’s not like the woman used crypto for money laundering but instead she used the profit she got from crypto and stored in wrongly in different assets.

Nothing really unlawful when it came to crypto. All related activities with crypto ended when she took it out and into fiat.

Here’s is different. It doesn’t need you to warn anyone because she clearly did what is wrong and she knew what she was doing. Merely having that amount, you have to explain how and why. And digging into hers, she helped launder money. Now she has to spend the next 6 years away from being a normal human/citizen.


You don’t have to argue about it. It’s simple to stay away from trouble. In the end, if you fall into doing something wrong you’re the one to pay the consequences.

Even though Bitcoin is illegal in my country, I continue to use Bitcoin in my country. But no one knows about my bitcoin usage except 2-1 people that I am a bitcoin user. I haven't faced any problem with bitcoin in my country yet, many people use bitcoin in my country but the government has not taken any strong action in this regard. Governments are basically unaware of how many people use Bitcoin. If very few people know how much money you have, and if you enforce the highest security measures on your account, I don't think you're going to run into any major legal complications.

You still have to be careful though and considering that in your country, it's illegal to own a bitcoin, that part where 1 or 2 people know that you own a bitcoin should never have happened in the first or never should increase in the future, you'll end up losing a lot of things when you do this kind of thing, people can easily betray others just so you know but other than that, hopefully you're really extra careful with your bitcoin ownership especially when you do transactions, it's going to be really difficult for you to do big transactions after all, given how it's so easy to suspect someone is doing illegal when they do a sudden but big transactions.

I'm quite curious about your country, where are you from?

Have you made sure it's really illegal? Since my country clearly prohibits it according to the rules, Bitcoin can be an illegal commodity as payment. If it is illegal and has legal effects that harm you, it is very dangerous. I probably won't even speak to anyone, including this forum. This condition can make evidence incriminating to you if you get legal proceedings. In addition, the government has the power to track and locate you.

You can use your bitcoins with on chain transactions without problems but if you have to sell your bitcoin to fiat currency, you have to use methods like bank transfer and will possibly have problems with banks and government.

If you only use your bitcoin on chain, you will avoid those problems but there are things you must know for your privacy.

Use your Bitcoin full node if you can.
Use Tor for your full node and when you broadcast your transaction on chain.
Use change address.

Cryptocurrency Explained: How to Get More Privacy on Bitcoin Transactions [Privacy is a Human Right] (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JN1Bowgcle8)

It is not because of Bitcoin put her in jail but it was a sort of money laundering. That won't give her an excuse as she commits a crime and it is not just a small crime but big enough to go to jail.

If she does nothing evil, even if she shows it to the authorities nothing happens to her. I think she deserves that as she can't be happy while others are suffering and this serves as a lesson to other individuals who are also committing the same crime to stop it.

As far as I know, there are still some countries that still ban bitcoin such as Bangladesh, China...But that doesn't mean the government is so draconian that it will spend a lot of time and effort just to spy on you or every citizen to prosecute and imprison you just because they heard a rumor that you were investing in bitcoin. Things will become serious unless you carry out transactions related to money laundering, crime...otherwise no one will care about you and things will not be as serious as you say.

Even the management and prevention of drug crimes, and murder...the government cannot complete, they do not have enough time and resources just to hunt down and arrest those who invest a few thousand dollars in bitcoin.
I also have a few friends from China and they have been quietly investing in bitcoin for many years, they say it is not as serious as many people imagine. They even use social network X to participate in discussions with the crypto community.

I took a glance at the news but all I can see is that the bitcoin the woman held was linked to money laundering and that was why she was jailed. If after discovering her with such amounts of money and after investigation the bitcoin was not link to money laundering, she will be free.

She was not into crypto at first and then came into illegal activity. She step into the crypto world for money laundering. And I am quite surprised to see the simplest way via these scammers launder money. I mean via GOLD or Expensive apartments, and most of her wealth was not her (as said in the news) she was working for someone. And not all of the funds were in the form of BTC.

Only some amount was in the form of BTC, but the officials will always say BTC is the main source for money laundering it needed to be stopped they won't talk about the Gold and expensive apartments she bought to launder more money than she did via BTC. IMO BTC is not a reliable way to launder money, if you want to then make contact with some political party NFA haha. Just saying what's on my mind.

We shouldn't link such things with normal Bitcoin activities such as buying and holding or even trading because these things show a negative image of Bitcoin and news outlets want to do that exactly, they are not in favor or Bitcoin or cryptocurrencies or want them to gain popularity and more people start believing in them because they are basically in support of the governments and centralized authorities.

As long as a country doesn't have strict rules and laws against Bitcoin and Bitcoin holders, one should be fine buying and storing Bitcoin as long as they are not doing something illegal with it. If you are found buying and storing Bitcoin normally and have a reasonable amount, you shouldn't be questioned for that if it isn't specifically banned in your country.

Converting Bitcoin into luxury assets isn't a crime on its own and shouldn't be a crime on its own. But the question of how someone got enormous amounts of BTC is valid, and there's often a real crime there. In her case, it was allegedly organized crime, so that's fairly serious. Although I must say I don't like it that there isn't enough information in the news about it. If the money was stolen from people or people got scammed, that's one story. If nobody knows where the money is from, that's another story. And I don't know for sure what's the case with her.

Then be smarter than them and don’t get caught. Otherwise they will make you suffer. Mind that, Being smart is a combination of various actions. Let’s say you are evading taxes (which I never recommend but if you are going to do it, do it smart) but it is only a few ten thousand bucks ( I am making up a random small number which can change for every country) then you might get away with it because the tax authorities will be spending their resources to catch bigger tax evaders first. That was just an example. What I mean is, it is important to keep the low profile.

The law clearly states what constitutes a crime. Bitcoin is not included in the concept of crime, so the use of Bitcoin by people who commit crimes does not indicate that Bitcoin is something wrong. There is a punishment for doing things that are crimes in the law. Trading Bitcoin is prohibited in some countries, but in most countries there is no prohibition specified by law. In many countries, you cannot shop with Bitcoin, but you can trade Bitcoin on exchanges.

This is easy to prove if you haven't done anything bad. If you are going to invest or trade with Bitcoin, you should check whether this trade or investment is regulated by law in your country.

That's why, as long as I want to stay lowkey when it comes to crypto currency, I'm not sure how the government knew that the woman had that huge amount of bitcoin, or even what the factor was that the woman was subject to money laundering. And one of the mistakes of the woman is that he converted a huge amount of his assets into luxurious things, so of course it will tick the radar of the government on how this person suddenly has a huge amount of money. That's the wrong thing that the woman did; she could just convert a little potion bit by bit in order not to be suspicious, so she also has a fault for that. But still, there aren't enough details on the news. What is the factor? What is the evidence? And how did the woman have such a huge amount of crypto assets? There are so many unanswered questions.

Consider which country this victim executed all the transactions, as you can see in the news, she converted it to some physical assets, maybe that's the time that regulators tracked the sourced and found it.
Jeez! The government must verify if those Bitcoins are acquired in legitimate ways before they take any actions.

I am also curious if those Bitcoins were confiscated and no chance for this victim to use them anymore.

Unfortunately, many countries do not think so. In some countries, simply holding Bitcoin is already causing outrage among the government. If the owner decides to do something with it—sell or buy—then you can get either a fine or a prison sentence. Therefore, the advice that was given about silence and modest ownership without disseminating information about Bitcoin will first protect the owner. What they say about disseminating information about Bitcoin can be passed on to other volunteers who live where Bitcoin is allowed, although, of course, in such countries, information leaks out from all sides and without advertising.

When governments force their organizations, facilities to apply technology more seriously and force citizens to do more things in society through online systems and applications, they have almost all necessary data in real-time. It saves them a lot of time and human resources to do data entry manually like years ago that need more time to complete and can cause mistakes from data entry step.

So with available real-time data, and with big data mining, analytical tools nowadays, they will catch you if you do tax evasion. I agree with your advice that as citizens, we should fulfill our tax responsibility to avoid any trouble in future. Sometimes, there is barrier like government does not have updated guideline on tax report for new things like cryptocurrency. We need to follow their update on it and fulfill our tax reports and tax responsibility.

Yes and money laundering is a big crime and that woman is certainly been held liable for her action. It was too sad that it links to Bitcoin and put it in question.
That was clear enough to say that bitcoin is not the reason and besides, it was not a crime to buy/sell even if it was not legal in the country. It is sad to know that some people use bitcoin as a tool for laundering which the government claims that it causes some criminal activities. It is against the law and that woman compromises everything she had and bitcoin reputation as well.

If we don't want to end up behind bars, we must abide the law.  If the government implements that Bitcoin is illegal and people using such cryptocurrency is committing a crime then as a citizens of the country we have to follow the law but it does not mean we will just follow it blindly if we feel that it is oppressing every individual, we can file a petition along with the people who have the same belief for the government to consider revising such law.  It may take some time but I believe eventually someone from the position will consider the petition about cryptocurrency if the reason is good enough that it won't harm the country's economy and its citizens.

But in the case presented by @OP, the woman is surely committing crimes and there is evidence of fraud, tax evasion, and money laundering.  It is sad that this woman use cryptocurrency to cover his dirty antiques until exposed and apprehended.

as long as we buy with personal money regularly and for investment purposes, I don't think there will be a problem even if it's only up to 10-12 BTC if it's just a normal owner, even then we're smart enough to save our assets so they're not visible to the public and always remain anonymous, don't public opinion if we have btc

That's very easy... The US cyber security teams could trace transactions coming through/going out of the wallet.. Also, most transactions could be performed in bits via CEXs since - atleast majority of P2P transactions are carried out there.

It wouldn't have been too much of a problem if she didn't get an entanglement with already-confirmed money laundering cases.. Secondly, on normal ground, that looks like too much for someone in her position to have. I haven't heard enough stories as to what happened next so I wouldn't conclude.

I'm confused what you're trying to say here. It's about that woman that has been jailed because of her involvement to fraud and money laundering.

And that investment purposes probably have been scammed from all of their victims which syndicate that she's involved with.

They are doing old dirty tricks here, Bitcoin has been known for that before and that's the description in the past. Being used for illegal activities, trades and crimes.

Even with this kind of reports, it won't change the fact now that it's a mainstream investment already.

Of course, it is important to note that holding two billion dollars worth of bitcoins in a wallet must be considered money laundering under the Money Laundering Act.  According to the country's money laundering rules, if the tax is not paid from that amount of bitcoins, it is of course punishable by law, which the woman has already received with a six-year jail term.  In my country the rule is more strict because if someone is caught with that amount of bitcoins then the government will have to suffer more severe punishment including confiscation of those bitcoins. That's why talking about Bitcoin in public is officially banned in my country.

On the moment that you would really be touching up those centralized platforms then the account which the fund or coins been passed on is verified then expect that you would really be ending up like this.
Everything which is centralized could really be traced up specially if its really that abiding on government rules and conditions then expect that you would really be that checked out immediately
considering that the said amounts that we are talking on here isnt something that too small. Government are really that too highly reactive if they sense big money.  ;D

Possible confiscation of funds?
Huge taxes?
Further investigation?

One of the worst condition once you do make yourself known that you do have so much money on which
it isnt really that shocking anymore.

I still feel that jail term is unnecessary. Just let her pay taxes with fine and leave her.

Governments can request companies to use smart contracts and confiscate your altcoin cryptocurrency but they can not do it with Bitcoin.

With Bitcoin, no company is responsible for it and there is no smart contract to freeze bitcoins in any non custodial wallets. It's different if you store your bitcoin in custodial wallets like on centralized exchanges.

Reminder: do not keep your money in online accounts (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5421039.0)
PSA: Most Stablecoins Can Be Frozen, Even in Your Own Wallets (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5204055.0)
Stable coins and black lists (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5247581)