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Why I created this thread: I am interested to know if the conditioned response is a cure for gambling addiction.

Gambling addiction develops through continuous repetition of habit, which is another word for Conditioned response, and this habit develops through stimuli, so a gambler who repeatedly gets excited through gambling develops an addiction.

Do you believe another stimulus [Conditioned Response] can replace the stimuli from gambling? So my question is, what is an effective stimulus [Conditioned Response] that can replace gambling addiction?

https://talkimg.com/images/2024/08/12/5lRW3.md.jpeg (https://talkimg.com/image/5lRW3)

I will lock this thread after 4 days or 40 responses, whatever comes first

This reminds me of the psychology course our department borrowed when I was in school that condition stimulus was talked about in which ringing of a bell and feeding of dog after was used for the explanation. If the bell is later rang, the dog will salivates as the dog get use to it. But this is different from what we can associate with gambling in a way someone can stop gambling because of condition stimulus. That is not possible and I do not know how these can be associated together.

doing or participating in an activity that you find interesting. if you read articles about gambling addiction and treatments for it, a lot of them will mention that having a hobby or an activity that you find interesting and can keep your mind occupied is a great way to suppress gambling urges.

also, doing activities that interest you to keep your mind occupied is not just an exclusive treatment for gambling addiction, from what I've read in the past, this works for a lot of types of addiction.

It's doesn't even rely solely on how repetitive a gambler can be, but how hungry and passionate they are towards whatever games that it... The urge that makes addiction to thrive fast is GREED.
You don't have to suppress the urge by getting addicted to something else... Its not an ailment but definitely, it's a disorder. The best antidote for correction is allowing it to LEAVE YOU. Distract yourself with things that could also be of good to you instead - hit the gym!!!

The one who created this term was Ivan Pavlov, and he uses the dog as an example of how a condition is developed based on stimuli, so there is a correlation we have the stimuli that will start the condition response.

In a gambler's version, we have an addicted gambler who once got hold of a big amount, and the one thing that's going through his mind is it is time for him to try his luck in gambling because of the previous stimuli, which is the excitement and the experience of winning.


Thanks for bringing this topic about Pavlov dog experiment.

I think once this is established in your head it wouldn’t be as effective as it would be In replacing a bad response or conditioning in the brain. It is not as replaceable in my opinion, especially if the person is addicted already. maybe a different therapy or something could be done.

There are several ways to treat addiction. And one of them would be cognitive behavioral therapy. I'm not a professional in the field but I know that cognitive behavioral therapy teaches you to respond to your own thought process with logical points.

For instance. You have a negative throught of gambling? First step is to recognize it. Ask yourself if it's really worth it and come up with the logical answers yourself as a response to the thought.

No, it's not worth it because I can't afford to lose even 1$ now.
Whatever I may win comes with risk of losing all the money I deposit.
I have my kids and family to look after.
I love my life as is, I should abandon dreams for extravagant wealth.
It's not reasonable to think it's my lucky day today, I've lost every time I've played.

etc.

Really think deeply to yourself and come up with logical responses to irrational and negative thoughts.
Learn to recognize the signs and counteract them. Try this and if it helps you're on a good path. If not, don't be afraid to ask for more help! ;)

Yea the urge for gambling cannot be replaceable because what causes the urge to gamble is when you think that you want to use it to double your money. Profit is the reason why people gets addicted to gambling and I don't think that there is anything one can use to replace gambling that is also possible for it to bring you profit. Because no matter how discipline a gambler is, if he makes profit he will be excited. Self control and discipline is the only way to avoid gambling addiction.

Since repeated stimuli were brought about by the conditioned response, it can be replaced by another repeated stimulus. The best person to think of a replacement is a professional expert who deals with gambling; he knows the best replacement that can equal the gambling stimulus.
I don't think another hobby or playing sports can replace the strong stimuli brought about by gambling addiction it should be something that will bring a dramatic effect.
 

In as much as I agree with your opinion that applying Conditioned Response as a measure to stop cure gambling addiction might not be effective enough on gambling addicts, I think we should also put in consideration that different people have different reactions to mental exercises. Since the gambling addiction was caused by constant engagement in gambling, the addiction can also be erased by engaging the gambling addict in other fun activities that can go to serve as the addict's hobby. So it might be possible depending on the individual.

A cold turkey way. Complete isolation or just the gambler lost it all and got mixed into a crime and then jailed. That's a dramatic effect that could stop a gambling addiction.

Or a slow conditioned response may help gradually. Sometimes it just needs a person's realization of the truth that he could never get the life he wants with gambling. It takes years and maybe when the time comes he gets older like 45, time passes by and all his friends are gone busy living life to see himself left out.

Absolutely this will work. This is the method which professionals dealing with addiction keeps doing. They are changing the gambling addiction in different activities repeatedly.

Also being open to the problem is the key solution to fight addiction. Always being honest to yourself and seek advice immediately when experiencing gambling crave will help to fight addiction but the trauma on losses is the perfect conditioned response solution for gambling addiction because it will automatically discourage user to play if you feel this fear whenever you are planning to gamble.

Yeah you have a point but on the other hand let's assume that the gambler never thought of using gamble go double his money.
The thing is that it can be replaced but it depends on the gambler because if the gambler takes gamble to be a way to double his money or if he doesn't. However there might be a condition that might be given to the gambler mostly if it a type that includes some kind of illness or life or properties that might be very precious to the gambler.

Why making this thread a self moderated?
I think a discussion like this shouldn't be made a self moderated because you would see different opinions coming here.

However, this won't help either because already as you can already see the effects is lose and there is no other effect that could be so hard that this, I mean the punishment because if someone gambled and lost his money it's already bad effects on the person therefore he would try next not get carried where by increasing their chances of winning. But what else, greed is the general thing that makes them to be addicted someone who doesn't apply and gambling moderate can't be an addicted gambler.

I don't know the exact medical term but I bet that's what the rehab is mostly about to concur an addiction, the best way is to let or force them to develop interest so over the period it will fade away for older but this could take really long cause reversing psychological conditions take months or even years but it only took 21 days to develop the habit so no matter what you do just limit yourself about everything not just how much money you spend.

It is hard to see some quality posts or new kind of topics here lately, and I believe this is the first time someone speaks about conditioned response beside attaching it to a cure of gambling addiction. The idea seems very similar to curing a sickness by creating an opposite effect of what reason the illness itself begins.
There will be different ways and opinion about how this method can help or definitively cure an addictive person, perhaps even if someone is reading the topic and responses here may help him. Personally, I would say that if you keep thinking and believing in an investment strategy every time you get the desire of gambling, pushing yourself to feel that pain of losing even before gambling, is something to start with and make you revert back and put that money in an investment. Maybe practicing that for few weeks until your investment starts to pay back will be the end of your addiction.

Ivan Pavlov would be curious to know the responses to this discussion - let's make him proud. Any effective stimulus that would replace gambling addiction is a very high valued activity in which the gambler is interested in or will be interested in and that generates as much excitement as gambling doesn't. It is not a one size fits all activity. It differs from person to person. As for me such stimuli would be football.

I think what you're trying to talk about is an activity that can replace the desire to gamble and not conditioned response. Conditioned response are cues we pick up through our lives and cannot just be created to cure a gambling addiction. It will take years to condition your body to want to eat or something when you think of gambling, but you can replace gambling with video games.

The danger of this is building another addiction while trying to fix one, so the replacement activity needs to be something creative and should not be allowed to turn to an addiction.

I agree with you and I think if a gambler stops gambling because of a presumed conditioned stimulus m, then that gambler should be interrogated and reason for the stimulus should be checked as I believe no insane gambler would want to be conditioned especially in something that offers the possibility of changing lives either good or bad, there is change and as such, it should be under some either drugs or some blackmail or even some sort of life threats ( just overthinking, I guess ).

lol
He might not just get only one but also a second addiction as you don’t expect to heal one addiction with another addiction, as such gaming isn’t the right opinion for him
Such a person should try as much possible to associate more with people and try as much as possible to not stay idle at this at this early stage(just my opinion)

Engaging in activities that provide a sense of achievement, such as learning a new skill, exercising, or pursuing creative outlets, could serve as new stimuli that gradually reduce the urge to gamble. It’s not an easy process, but with consistent effort, it might be possible to rewire those responses.

This is a nice topic, i used to say in the past "People don't quit vices, they substitute em" and that can apply to gambling. So, how can we substitute gambling, that's the question here. And i know it will sound weird, but we can substitute gambling with a job, and that's because that way we learn how hard is to earn money, and losing it in some clicks feels terrible after working all week. So, from my own experience, i could say that working hard for a company or for personal project can take us out of gambling.

I agree with you because that way gambling addict will feel that they have other activities that are more enjoyable and can be done anytime without having to involve things like betting money, gradually all of this will lead gambling addicts to really reduce gambling activities.
In addition, there are many more positive activities or activities that can provide special stimulation for gambling addicts so that they can consider if what they do is much better than the gambling activities they have previously done.
But these various activities can only be done by people who really think about being able to cure themselves because basically healing and stopping gambling addiction must begin with the desires and intentions of each addict themselves.

if it does replace the desire to gamble I think there are many things that can be done, but the main thing is thinking. we must be able to control our thoughts which when there is a feeling or thought of wanting to gamble we must be able to put it aside and I think when that happens what must be done is to think about the risk side maybe that can make the desire to gamble a little bit aside because knowing there is a risk so you don't want to look for disease. but this is not easy because gambling itself has a strong appeal.
most people become addicted because they want to improve the situation where when they lose they want to restore the defeat to victory as a result the action taken is to gamble again. meanwhile what OP said is true, gambling addiction develops through repetition of habits that continue either because they want to improve as you said or because they feel dissatisfied. considering that many things can be done to put aside the desire to gamble, but it all depends on each individual who feels it. whether they will do something else or even follow their desires.

Yes, another stimulus can replace the will to playing gambling and even can makes someone forget about his gambling addiction. But those stimulus must be done continously for some time until he can forget his gambling activity. Many people fail to forget their gambling activity because they still remember that playing gambling is something that can gives them pleasure and if they are luck, they can win for some money.

Someone who has gambling addiction needs to do many activity to block his minds of thinking about playing gambling. If you ask what stimulus that can replace gambling addiction, the answer will be different. Maybe someone can do something that he knows before and focus doing that and with doing other things so his brain and minds will thinks about what he do. Maybe it will difficult for the first time and that needs to be done over and over to gets a good result.

Several signs suggest a person may have a gambling addiction, a topic we've discussed extensively. However, there are some conditions for a person to be able to stop in time, and everyone usually has their own, which may differ from others. For example, a person plays for a long time and loses, but he remembers that once he had a nasty case, which ended very badly. And if he had stopped in time, the misfortune would not have happened. A reminder always clicks in a person's head not to repeat something like this. It is difficult to call this a reflex. But it is straightforward to take it as a sign; there are many such signs for different people. Someone is afraid to repeat something at all costs, believing that what happened to him badly once, with some coincidences, will be repeated regularly.

I don't think that a person can be cured of gambling addiction with a "stimulus", at least not always. You know, sometimes a person unwittingly creates an addiction for himself because of a so-called viral idea. Let's say a person is obsessed with a viral idea, also known as an idée fixe, that he can get rich by playing roulette using the Martingale method. And the person will experiment with roulette and Martingale for a very long time and persistently until he is convinced of the absurdity of this idea. And it is impossible to "cure" him as long as the person believes in his viral idea. Any obstacles on the way to realizing his idea will only irritate the person.

part of the reason why you can possibly get to a point where you're psychologically tied down to gambling will most likely be that you're doing it as your only fun activity or you've made it your most trusted passive streams of income such that you can't live a day or two without gambling. If you have other things apart from your regular job that takes most of your time you wouldn't get to a point as this where you get triggered to gamble when you pass a casino shop or immediately you come online. Most addict become addicted to things at the point they weren't too busy and repeated certain act till it became something they can't do away with.

Doing demo could be another way to still gamble and even if you have to do it constantly, a combination of real gambling and demo gambling could cut down in your cost but that's when it's almost impossible to not get triggered to gamble when you're in certain environment.

I believe this is something similar to a routine, if it's not it itself? And afaik, ANYTHING can become a routine. It's just a matter of actually being able to build up that routine consistently via repetition and conditioning your body to adapt to it, replacing any old ones. Yes, it's effective and can be helpful but this doesn't mean it's easy though. It's not a fault that the saying "Habits die hard" exists cause yes, they're hard to remove from yourself and if you start adapting to one, without any hard work on your part it's not going to disappear anytime soon.

It's mostly our emotions that are affected, leading to a shift in mindset. When addiction becomes severe, that's when professional help is necessary. Psychologists are likely the ones who can offer assistance. While I don't know the exact methods they use, they are trained professionals who are there for a reason. Their services come at a cost, but this also means that you're likely to receive effective treatment, almost guaranteeing recovery once you're in rehab.

I experienced addiction in the past, but it wasn't too serious, and I was able to manage and overcome it on my own.

Doing something else to keep your mind distracted might not help every gambler, I think making a decision and standing on it is the only way out of gambling because you can try to replace your addiction with other hobbies but it still doesn't restrict your access to it , gambling addiction is caused by the rush of dopamine in the brain conditioning you to always engage in it whether you are winning or losing, you do it just to satisfy the urge..only way to stop is to make that hard decision and try to restrict yourself

It won't work although simulated cases may say so I think that in a long run gambling addiction can only be cured by enough self determination to want to achieve such thing and nothing else can help.I say so because temporary cure can be found by such conditional approach but one can never know what to expect from gambling emotions,not everyone responds the same to such emotions,some take it easy and stop gambling after massive lost amount of money,many others burn in rage and others even break things.It is relative but overall I doubt anything except huge self determination can help in curing gambling addiction in a definitive way.

Ivan failed to be specific about whether the gambling was online or offline, because I believe the conditioned response or stimulus will vary.
Also, speaking about your idea on the kind of conditioned response of which football is your preference,  you didn't say if it was online football games or it's going all boss out on a pitch with a football singly or with other sweaty bros.

Whichever is anyone's preferred stimulus, I think I would prefer writing or painting/drawing or doodling on rough pieces of paper when such  urge to gamble arises, as my stimulus of choice to cure gambling addiction.

Nothing can replace gambling.

Because itself require money and has opportunity to earn money, in this case there are no other activity that can replace gambling.

Unlike painting, you can replace it with playing music, you can replace travelling with staycation, you can replace playing games with watching movies.

While gambling, you can only replace it with gambling lol.

That is certainly not true. It's just for different persons different conditioned responses can be applied. I'm pretty sure gambling addiction can be cured(I witnessed the examples of that myself), but it's not always that simple. It takes a good professional in his field.

As far as I know, conditioned or unconditioned response stimuli have not been applied to those who are addicted to gambling, this stimulus system has only been developed for general patients, such as mental disorders, fear or excessive trauma.

However, from some data that I have read, if the stimulus in the form of an association can lead to something like what I have quoted below.

In my understanding, conditioned response stimuli can be the best alternative to use for those who are addicted to gambling, because they can shape or change the behavior of each individual.

Sample case:

Meaning: it can be concluded that if a conditioned response stimulus is applied to those who are addicted to gambling, it may be effective in stopping gambling because of the negative impacts that often occur in the gambling arena, From some of the data above, I believe that conditioned responses are very effective in overcoming gambling addiction.

The best is when the gambler realizes that he can not make money from gambling. The problem most gamblers that are spending too much on gambling. The fact is that they are looking for money while gambling. Once they start seeing gambling as entertainment, wasting money on gambling will not come to their mind. I have spoken with some addicted gamblers before, if they are truthful to tell you about gambling and earning money, you will notice this fact about them.

I personally agree with this statement. More likely, a gambling addiction is too complex to be overcome by a trigger or some other short-term intervention, if I were to based the concept of "Addiction". Like what's in the statement the Martingale technique of roulette, a person deeply committed to some particular belief or ideology may find it hard to get over the attraction until they realize with absolute certainty that their belief is completely wrong. This very certainty will then hold their gambling behavior in an even more negative way. Simply adding other stimulus or other solutions is insufficient because, if the root cause is strong enough. True development typically requires working with these fundamental beliefs, seeking means to alter his attitudes and feelings about gambling, which requires more support and self-examination than initial intervention.

It can be observed by everyone that when a person is really immersed into doing something, they don't remember their addictions, so do things which can make you forget your addictions. Now which ones? Depends on individual and intensity of their addictions.

For some people, merely replacing gambling with video games (which was their hobby) was enough to rise above their moderate addiction.

Some may argue, it's creating another addiction, that may be correct but IMO replacing dangerous addiction with less dangerous one is wise choice.

It's ethical use this approach for cure gambling addiction? DId we have any evidence is something that could be really be used?
Even the answer of this question is "YES" or "NOT" this can't be assessed here on paper but must be validated with a trial or an experiment in a defined setting. There are many variants and bias that must be taken into account.
I would have a small search also on pubmed. Maybe there is already some literature on that argument.

Since the conditioned response of gambling can lead to addiction, if a gambler finds himself in this caged situation, I think that the best option would be to channel the response to another interesting activity. It's not easy but I believe that it's not impossible, what the addicted gambler needs is patience and  practice The person can seek the help of a professional so that the process can be easier but with strong will and determination the addict can triumph and replace the conditioned response with another thing to respond to.

The human mind is adaptive, when it's in a comfort zone of where you want it to operate, you'll think that it doesn't have the capacity to adjust in another zone. But you'll be surprised that if it leaves that comfort, with time it'll adjust and find comfort in a new space.

If gamblers who repeated get excited with gambling develops an addiction does getting sad and moody while gambling becomes an antidote against gambling addiction? Am asking because I don't get it how repeatedly gambling should be hooked on as a condition to addiction. It is not in the repetitions basically, but in the approach of the gambler.

I could repeatedly gamble and don't attach any form of value to it, taking it as something less to grow feelings about order than just a means to enjoy my time while standing a chance to make some cash. The next man's approach may be different from mine, his could be that of a means to an end, and that's where the GREED (as Sandra_hakeem said) comes in, and a lack of discipline is displayed leading to compulsive addiction.

Absolutely true about suppressive means of distraction to tame oneself away from gambling addiction. You could just be making the condition worse without knowing that that's where you're headed to. Occupying oneself with activities that brighten your mood and at same time makes you feel fulfilled afterwards without you struggling with yourself to engage in it, such practice can be helpful as it occupies the time you would have spent on feeding your gambling addiction.

I also remember this theory of learning by Russian physiologist, Ivan Pavlov, who discussed Conditioning in dogs. Replacing conditioned stimulus with something else so that the unconditioned stimulus and unconditioned response will change is the main purpose of the thread. An example is if a hangout with friends gamblers (conditioned stimulus) triggers the urge (unconditioned stimulus) to gamble (unconditioned response). The individual can change this conditioned response by maybe changing his friends to those who play video games so that that urge to gamble will be replaced by the drive to play video games.

Yeah, I believe that gambling can be substituted for other forms of entertainment. For me, movies, computer games,  playing football and online trading can reduce my gambling habit  

I think distracting to other things can help us to cure our gambling addiction. But that will need more effort to distract our minds from thinking about gambling. Not many people can leave gambling although they try harder because they can control their minds from leaving the gambling.

If addicted person to gambling doesn't have a big effort to cure his gambling addiction, he will not have a chance to cure his gambling addiction. We can not say that one thing can be effective for many people because that will depends on what his level of gambling addiction and what can makes him distract his minds from gambling. Maybe it needs observation to know how deep he is in the gambling games so professional can determine what therapy that person will do.

But he can try to cure himself by the help from other people without asking for professional help. But that will not easy as he can return to casino if he doesn't have a strong minds to control himself. If he can do something that different than playing gambling continuously, maybe he can be able to distract his minds from thinking about gambling.

The general principles of treating any addiction are the same. What are these principles? Firstly, it is deprivation from the factor causing the addiction. If you smoke, do not buy cigarettes; if you are a drug addict, make sure that drugs do not reach you. And if you are a gambler, make sure that you do not have the opportunity to visit gambling sites. Secondly, you should come up with some kind of hobby that would distract you from thoughts about gambling. It does not matter what kind of hobby it is. The main thing is that it distracts you, develops you and brings you pleasure. And the level of this pleasure should be comparable to the one you had when you were gambling.

He said that 'it was not an easy process' . That can have a double meaning. Not easy if our goal is to gamble less or quit it permanently because for sure the strong urge is still there especially if we are only getting started on combating it.

Another one that is not easy is to do some activities that he listed like learning a new skill and exercising. They are still very rewarding once we achieve them. He did not gave an easy example there but the one that I can think of right now is playing a video game. It is rewarding but can be dangerous like gambling if not controlled. Other acts are not gambling where we place our money as a form of bets but we still can spend money on them, like for example we buy a video game, we buy healthy foods, shoes, and others when we are exercising.

We buy a course (if it's about learning a new skill). I can say that it was still better than in gambling because we still can have the items that we bought, while in gambling, our money can only last a short period of time. I think that even the gambler has no intention to stop his habits, they can still be able to do the other activities that we talk above, and for those who are addicts, they won't say or do the steps to cure their selves if they are not serious about it.

I believe it would be possible to threat gambling addiction with conditions responses, but the tricky part about it would be to trick the person being treated to associate gambling with some negative feelings.
I have read about these techniques but under different names: like unconscious programming, widely used in developing nations to try to make homosexual people not longer be homosexual.
It is concerned to be a technique is goes against human rights of those who are forcibly treated.
An experiment which comes to mind to combat gambling addiction thought these techniques would make the whole experience unforcomfotable for the gambler and it it could possibly make the gambler to quit in the long term from wagering money in any shape or form.

Here are further references to what people call "conversion therapy".

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conversion_therapy

Yeah nothing can replace the urge for gambling, people that claim to distract themselves with other things later find themselves relapsing because that urge to double your money always comes either when you spend or need money, only two things can help decision and discipline, these are very difficult attributes to inculcate but with time and consistency you would overcome.. stopping an habit can't happen in one day you will definitely go back and forth but if you keep putting in effort to stop you definitely will

Thanks for mentioning Pavlov. That is why I created this thread to discuss Pavlov's work, which, for me, is an excellent help to relatives because there is hope. All they need is to supersede the existing stimuli with another stimulus to fight the addiction; of course, help from professionals is a must because they are the ones who can set up an effective replacement of the existing stimuli.

I'm locking this thread. Thank you to those who participated in this discussion. We'll go on another discussion