Bitcoin Forum

As someone who has liked anime and gaming since I was young, I've always liked the concept of being able to trade in game currency for real currency and vice versa, mainly because of a couple of anime I watched that such a thing is possible and it will also mean that people can actually really earn money from games and being a full time gamer was an aspiration I had in the past lol.

Still the whole point of the post is that with crypto currency such a dream is not so futile anymore, I'm not sure if any project has fully integrated such but I've seen some close to that like Counter Fire with their ingame token supposedly a cryptocurrency but I don't know to what extent it reaches.

Anyway, I'd like you guys thoughts on this matter? Will it be possible to fully realize such a dream or will it just be another child's dream, I mean such a game will need a massive player base of over a billion for such a thing to be sustainable, so I'm doubting it's plausibility. Also, if any one of you guys has some info on that Counter Fire project please share, Tq.

If the games were somehow able to solve the bots problem then maybe. I mean an example would be Albion Online. I always thought it had a really great player driven economy but the existence of bots is driving (or has already) it worse and worse as it gets older.

But then there are also other problems like the management of the economy, price trading, and stuff like that which most devs so far have been pretty bad at managing lol. They also suck at managing sudden influx of players which can drastically affect the market, so it just drops. This makes people who play the game to earn just straight up leave and, well, that further pushes the economy down.

And in general, most crypto gameplay suck lol.

IMHO, with or without cryptocurrencies, games depending on its game type will still able to make some players make money from in game things/items and purchases. I've seen some games that don't allow ingame items into real world money, I wonder why they are not allowing that or they just want to protect their game's economy. But when there is real money that's being involved to a game, it becomes pay-to-play and many won't enjoy it anymore.

At some point, many are going to enjoy that if the motivation of the game is to make some money. But then, the game-economy will be hardly sustained if the game rotates all about the money and people won't be enjoying it anymore. I'd choose the balance type of games where people can enjoy even if they have no money but it's so hard to find games like this today. And from the looks of it, many of these games are going to die eventually. Unless, there's a big backer that backs it will huge funds.

I always thought gaming was one of the best use cases for cryptocurrency honestly.  It eliminates the credit card fees and allows for micro transactions and not be cost prohibited.  I think one day these creators will catch on enough and crypto will be mainstream enough for both worlds to collide.  Can't see why that wouldn't be in the near future for gaming.

There were so many NFT games released that has used their ERC20 token as their in game currency, most of them fails however, mainly because they are too focused on the financial aspect they forgot that people play game because it's fun and most of these games are so boring.

currently there are many ongoing game fi project as well if you care to look what comes to my mind is Illuvium and nyan heroes. but i don't really get excited from their games.

I'm more interested if AAA game such as GTA or any other that already have big user base to incorporate blockchain somehow and making in game transaction using cryptocurrency possible but such news are nowhere to be found.
maybe we're too early for this use case, because NFT still got that bad stigma of pump and dump and this stigma also influence the use of crypto inside game.

If the problems that bother usual games are dealt with, and there is good gameplay in place ( at least a good one, not innovative and good one ;D), then maybe. Otherwise - don't believe it happening ;D

This, this is so true, unfortunately ;( Many games just don't have a gist for them going, you don't have fun while running and doing stuff in them. It shouldn't be that way.

I can't really understand your point in this post, what do you mean by games that can make money like P2E projects?

If that's your point, then the answer is possible, before Counter Fire, there were a lot of P2E projects, the best known in the industry is Axie Infinity, I think you're one of the late guys who suddenly came and questioned the old hype. A little review about Counter Fire, this is a MOBA game, I'm not sure they can dominate the market, because they have big competitors like MLBB, LOL & HOK.

Since axie I haven't seen any game that's consistent really. Let's hope that changes.. op mentioned counter first. I've been seeing it on twitter tl. I also noticed their token CEC would be on Bitget launchpool. Since it's almost zero risk, I'll leverage that to accumulate the token while I explore the game..

Actually playing games using crypto currency, I think it's something that needs to be tried, and maybe in the future something that has never happened before will be realized, and it can attract people to play because they are interested in something new.

It will, it's just going to take time.  Like someone said got to make sure it's bot proof somehow but in terms of apps built the developers have to have easy integration tools amd its overall popularity  (crypto) still has a way to go.  In the US tax laws make it dicey and I'm sure it's different in each country.  We are close though and I'm waiting for it because that will help with organic interest in crypto.

the corporations or any large company that produced big budget games gonna hate it though, the fact that integration with cryptocurrency could also mean they might lose their leverage of creating profit through micro transactions since people could just resell their item is such a let down for these big companies.

so many of them already canceled development of the integration, I think they figured out how much implementing this thing could hurt their profit so they put the integration aside.but I heard in EU there are upcoming regulation about reselling digital game I think this may pick interest in integrating it altogether with non fungible token as an identifier somehow.

Please remember one thing - if a certain token is easy to generate and doesn't require any investment or skillsets, those tokens will never have a real-world value ever.

If you look at those tokens that can be mined through your mobile phone, you will see that those tokens never appreciate in value. The reason is very simple. It doesn't require an investment or skills to generate those coins. So instead of buying, everyone will generate it and then when it comes to the market, you will find a buyer.

The same mindset applies to the game tokens. Unless those tokens are extremely rare, those will never have value. Because then everyone will generate it from the game and try to sell it through an online marketplace where you will only see sellers available but no buyer. 

Sounds logical ;D Or there should be that much funds to have these tokens going, but it's not gud for the long-term perspective.

You have a point. Difficult to mine and the longer the value. Those with easy access doesn't have value long term. I played pirate, game was easy and I got some airdrops and even the tokens.. haven't really checked till now ahah. Are you following counterfire? Pre deposit & Lauchpool for it is on
https://i.ibb.co/7R7sJDt/20240830-133323.png (https://ibb.co/616jRS0)
 (https://imgbb.com/)

Playing can make money is fun, but in reality many complain. for example, now what is trending is the tap screen game and in my opinion it is boring like finger gymnastics. then what kind of crypto game are you looking for? try to mention it for example like a shooting action game or something else maybe

It is possible to make such a thing like a game which those economical characteristics you have mentioned, but it would require specific special conditions for such a game to be sustainable through time: it has to be a massive multiplayer game available to millions of people, without asking for extremely high PC specifications, it must be fun enough to hook people up to play it and it also needs to have a balanced in-game economy so people playing because of profit can continue to do so in the long term, while there still people spending money only for the sake of fun.
As we are talking about a game of huge magnitude, it would probably take some major company to have some stakes in it for it to move forward and come to fruition.

Merging one's interest in gaming and cryptocurrency-the idea of trading coins for money within a game and living through such gaming-has long been the dream fostered by many anime and the booming digital economy. Advancement within cryptocurrency and blockchain does indeed bring such a dream closer to reality despite many obstacles that get in the way.

An interesting idea is already taking shape on many fronts: blockchain technology and cryptocurrency are finding their way into games, thereby enabling players to realize real-world value from in-game assets and tokens. Sometimes, this can be observed in "play-to-earn" events where people earn cryptocurrencies or NFTs, worth around the world. The factors that will contribute to their success include game popularity, economic growth, and regulatory considerations, among others.

One such opportunity is that you mentioned-Counter Fire. That is, inculcation of blockchain technology into games for allowing people to make money through gaming. These types of projects are relatively new, so their success rate can be different. The challenge is to make a challenging game that would attract a wide range of players while keeping the game economy both sustainable and balanced. As you noted, many such models do need quite a number of players for sustainability. Without these multiple players, the economy just cannot support meaningful exchange rates.


It should be a massively multiplayer game where millions of users can enter the game because such an economy needs to be thriving and dynamic. Fundamentally, the role of the players will underpin a healthy economy in the game and determine that the virtual currency is valued all over the world.

It should also be accessible to system requirements and not contain too general PC details that may restrict the number of possible listeners. This will amaze many types of players since they can be played using multiple devices.

Equally explanatory is the capability of the game to actually be engaging and entertaining, thus providing an engaging game which will keep the players invested, both in entertainment and in possible financial return, once it gets exciting and involving. A fun and engaging game will naturally have attracted and retained players.

The balance of the economy is the most important in the game. This means creating a scene where gains and spending are calculated to support a long-time participation. The economic system is to be designed in such a way that both economically oriented and hedonic players can master it for its smoothness to the satisfaction of all involved.

It's quite possible, the problem is usually the waiting time and the fee each time we use it. In most games that have just game money, it takes no time to confirm anything, you just pay and move on, whereas here it would require confirmation and that's the problem, and if you can make a token or coin that is instant and not have any of these issues, and if you can implement the confirmation and waiting on the game itself instead of some wallet, then you might have a chance.

These are all coding issues and can be done, it is not a big deal and I think it will be done, we just need to make sure that things are what it is and could be done better with time.

We will of course have harder time eventually, it is not going to be that much of a hard deal. As long as we know what we are dealing with, and what is needed, a coder can do all of these, or a team of coders, it's just about the fact that nobody really thinks it worths their years of development time.

You need to start by defining the "game". Because everything can be a game. Even this forum, where people are trading currency.

What you are describing is an exchange, and those need an exchange seperate license, no matter how badly you would try to disguise it as a "game". Even if that game would be downloadable from steam and had gta 5 type graphics, it still would be considered as exchange when you trade currencies in there. You might as well as why binance hasn't build a game where people can trade money like they would be in binance. Because if that game would glitch, they would get sued. It's hard enough to build working exchange as it is.

And if you are talking about that kind of games, ask yourself, why aren't people trading real money in those games right now? Even game skins are being traded in 3rd party sites because game companies don't want anything to do with that. By allowing trading they would need whole new section of people to deal with the exchange, and that opens a direct route for company destroying law suits.

The answer is yes, absolutely and in fact it's the only way it will be done in the future.

But...

No blockchain-based digital currency architecture will ever be fast enough or scale well enough to be embedded in a real game. It's just too slow and too expensive.

The Haypenny engine (https://haypenny.net/whitepaper.html) returns transactions in under 5ms internal time, meaning your game server can fully execute a transaction without about 40ms with your network round trip. And the system can scale to millions of transactions per second, so we can run, basically, all of the world's games if we had to.

And the Haypenny engine is effectively free for anybody to use, including a game system. We charge $0.005 per transaction, but that is charged in your own currency, meaning that it your game's currency isn't yet negotiable, then you can use the system effectively for free. (If your game gets really popular and people start wanting to trade your game's currency for Bitcoin or USD, then... we both win :)).

Are there cases like that already, or they are yet to come? ;D

Haypenny is brand new and still in beta, so there are no games currently shipping--but we know several are looking into this.

That's awesome! Would like to see these games when they will be online and published ;D

I agree. The biggest danger for cryptocurrency with real-world monetary value are bugs, hacks and bots. They could turn the cryptocurrency completely worthless, just because of a game bug that allows them to cheat.

You would need to create a centralized and custodial crypto which could be frozen or returned to a victims wallet (in case of an exploit). But that is not really crypto, is it?

..But it can be branded as such, as long as the marketing goes boom and the game is good (which wasn't seen by me neither in a combination nor one by one ;D)

The major game platforms already deal with this in their platforms. EA Sports hosts billions of dollars in their internal game currencies on their systems. Hence they are already pretty careful. Using a "real" currency that is externally negotiable adds another issue, and they would need to add security around that, but the upside is that they could potentially profit gigantically if their currency appreciates like memecoins often do. (And yes, they would need their game to deal with... deflation of the currency but I bet they could figure that out).


Well, is using Binance to buy and sell crypto (which isn't really anything but entries in their database), "really crypto"? :)

The key benefit here is that in-game currency can be externally negotiable, making it potentially profitable to play a game (especially when the game is new). I bet people would love that.

I have also read that but it's a rumor and I don't want to put hope on it until it is announced officially. But for now, it's all about speculations that the GTA VI will be having its integrated in-game currency and I hope that it can be converted into real money.

Now, this is going to be the real virtual reality that we live inside the cities in that game and we're all transacting and doing things and having jobs to earn that money.

Well, it's a utopia to be honest but I guess that if the developers of it having loads of back up and sponsors will be making it into a reality. It won't just be needing millions in funding but maybe a billion or a trillion for it to make it happen.

If it really would be, and fair at that - yep, totally ;D

Trying to make a profit from playing a game is something that a lot of people who tries to do with game money anyway, there are many online games where the items and the money there worths something. Even the "knives" in counter strike worths money, or world of warcraft gold worths money as well, all of the things end up seeing quite normal situation and doesn't mean that it could be that bad if we could make it crypto.

This is very important because it ends up being a very good result, it has to be a coin that works very well, if it can be a coin that works very well and if it's a game that is loved that much then combination of those two things could be great. Imagine world of warcraft that has cryptocurrency in it, that type of thing would work amazingly. Unfortunately we will never have a game that big, with a crypto in it at the same time.

If we will read and slowly comprehend what he was saying, we will know that the OP is talking about video game. You said everything can be a game? But, I agree on it. This includes trading a currency, as you also said. So a trading exchange don't need to disguise their selves anymore as one.

Anyways, in the world we are living now, we still have a separate game and one example of it is like I said earlier which is video game. Apart from a centralized exchange, there is also a decentralized exchange. This is the one that doesn't need a license anymore. I'm not an expert with this but I think it was only the API is the ones that is injected in the game to make trading of currencies possible, so it is still mostly compose of a game and not an exchange.

Binance didn't made a game, maybe because they are contented already with their own business which is an exchange. Blockchain or crypto-based games are not that reliable anyways. I think in Dota 2 on Steam, you can trade skins within their app but for those who do it outside, maybe they think it's much easier and less expensive.

I don't think you got my point.

Cryptos were a wild west for a long time, because we were under a radar and laws were just catching up. But now those days are coming to an end as we are in transitional phase. There's a good reason why bigger dexes are complying with regulations, and reason is not "just for fun". They are just getting ready because they know what's coming.

As a rule of thumb; if any Dapp if a dapp is for transmitting value, it will need money transmitter licence / crypto license at least in US, because they are going to be submitted to same AML laws as fiat exchanges. EU has their MICA (https://www.esma.europa.eu/esmas-activities/digital-finance-and-innovation/markets-crypto-assets-regulation-mica) regulation as well. Pretty much only difference between CEX and DEX from the AML point of view is DEXs is who has the the custodity of those assets. Swapping / trading / token classifications and tracking them are all in the interest of FINSec and others like them. So if an unregistered dapp will handle your money and it will get mixed with money laundering, your assets are going to be tainted and not accepted in anywhere.

Actually not simply a mere game but an entire "metagame" has existed already for well over a decade with not just one, but many, fully tradable digital currencies incorporated: the Galactic Milieu (https://www.devtome.com/galactic_milieu).

In the early days (see the thread, https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=53329.0 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=53329.0)) it used Open Transactions (https://www.devtome.com/doku.php?id=digitalis_open_transactions_server) to provide tradability, the better to permit Civilisations that built instances of the Stock Exchange city-improvement to optionally fire up a server of their own implementing exchange functionality, even one server per such city if they wanted to, such as if they wanted players' characters to have to actually be in a specific city to trade on that specific set of trading-pairs.

Eventually more platforms got involved, see for example the thread https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1112289.0 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1112289.0), which spans from 2015 to 2017.

Many of the coins incorporated feature references to all this in their own threads, see for example https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=233997.msg60540064#msg60540064 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=233997.msg60540064#msg60540064).

You can find links on Makemoney Knotwork (https://MakeMoney.Knotwork.com) to the tokens implemented on the HORIZON and STELLAR platforms at https://Makemoney.knotwork.com/horizon/ and https://Makemoney.knotwork.com/stellar

Tables and plots of asset values dating back to 2012 are linked to from the page found at http://galaxies.mygamesonline.org/digitalisassets.html

If you are forward-looking, you might also look into the forthcoming DMD Diamond (https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/diamond/) V4 platform, at time of writing this post DMD is still in its masternodes based V3, but the forthcoming V4 looks to be basically a souped up super fast ETH-compatible platform with super-cheap transactions thus currently the prime contender as the next platform for the Milieu assets to spread to. Once V4 launches, V3 coins can be cloned onto V4, the existing exchanges claim they will handle that automatically for their users but it is not clear whether those exchanges will also give you back your V3 coins, let alone whether they will continue to support the V3 coins as "DMD Classic" or somesuch name once V4 becomes the new normal DMD.

The Milieu will probably retain the V3 DMD coins as DMD and create a new label DMD4 for the new V4 coins.

Part of the idea in retaining the V3 DMD coins is to make of them another "treasury based asset", which would make them useable in the game as something other assets can use in their own official "treasuries" and allow the (meta)game to compute value per coin rather than having to rely upon "price discovery" in "spot markets" to compute price lists and such.


-MarkM-

Play-to-Earn (P2E) games let you earn real-world money by playing games. You can trade or sell in-game items or currency for real money.
Examples: Axie Infinity, The Sandbox
Challenges: These games need a lot of players to be successful. They also need to follow rules and regulations.
Counter Fire: If it’s a P2E game, it needs to address these challenges to be successful

Wow. Thanks for the heads up!
It's really interesting that these concepts were so quite a while ago, yet they gain traction and momentum just now.
I will definitely look at these in the near future. You are a legend!

I believe crypto gaming would be achievable in the near future. All it needed is a big studio like Activision, Blizzard or something to adopt it and it would boom. Better look at it

Counter fire? Is this collaboration with Counterstrike versus Crossfire? This is funny.

I don’t think having a fully tradable digital currency is impossible, but isn’t it already being done using crypto? It is better to elaborate on how it will be defined and what makes it hard to implement. I don’t know why it is a dream because I think some games already have it, especially if it is on web3.