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Other => Politics & Society => Topic started by: legiteum on September 03, 2024, 05:15:20 PM



Title: More than 200 former Bush, McCain and Romney staffers endorse Harris
Post by: legiteum on September 03, 2024, 05:15:20 PM
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2024-election/200-former-bush-mccain-romney-staffers-endorse-harris-rcna168363

It's sometimes hard to make those who do not live in the USA understand our context here. If you don't get US news on a constant basis, you might think that Trump is just another American politician with a different viewpoint on certain things than the other candidate.

Here are 200 Republicans--Trump's own party--who are warning their fellow Americans of the danger of a Trump presidency. These are people who worked to get Republicans elected all of their lives, and have abruptly ended their own careers by making this statement.

Trump is a convicted criminal who has promised to seek retribution against anybody who does not support him. He is manifestly corrupt, in a way that no US president ever has been, and he is calling for radical changes to the US economy including the initiation of a trade war that will send the US into a recession. He is promising to make abortion illegal across the USA, and allow states to institute controls at their borders in order to keep women from escaping to have an abortion.

And he is promising to hand over Europe to Putin by pulling out of NATO, so if you live in Europe, you better be prepared to pay a lot higher taxes for the war coming to your country, and if you are under 35, you better be prepared to go fight on the eastern front.

Maybe you don't care about what happens to us Americans if Trump is elected, but you should at least care about yourself and your own country. The US economy going down the tubes and the US stopping imports will ripple across to every country on the globe.

Oh yeah, and you know what happens to Bitcoin when the US economy is disrupted? People lose their jobs, or are afraid of that happening--and when that happens, they sell their Bitcoin in order to pay the bills. You can't HODL when your rent is due and you don't have the money.

I know a lot of foreigners have a "burn baby burn" view of the US and want us to elect Trump because they think it will end our country, but you are seriously hurting yourself by wanting this too.



Title: Re: More than 200 former Bush, McCain and Romney staffers endorse Harris
Post by: Fiatless on September 03, 2024, 08:14:15 PM
The US is indeed the biggest economy in the world and it has a lot of influence. But the threat that if the US goes down, the world will suffer is going out of hand. The United is not the first world power. Other leading economies have suffered a decline, and the world didn't go extinct. The fall of the US will bring some level of hardship to the world, but with time, the global economy will still stabilize. I don't care much about the US Presidential election because it will come and go. No matter who wins, Bitcoin and the world will survive.

The 200 Republicans who decided to support Kamala Harris are politicians. And politicians will always support candidates who give them a better deal. Don't trust them because the support is for personal interest.


Title: Re: More than 200 former Bush, McCain and Romney staffers endorse Harris
Post by: legiteum on September 03, 2024, 08:24:44 PM


The 200 Republicans who decided to support Kamala Harris are politicians. And politicians will always support candidates who give them a better deal. Don't trust them because the support is for personal interest.

Quite the contrary, every person on that list will never work in politics ever again. That's the personal sacrifice they made to put their name to that statement.

Trump's former Secretary of State called Trump (while he worked for Trump), a "fucking moron".

Trump's former personal lawyer of 30 years testified against him and warns the US of the dangers of a Trump presidency.

Trump's former Chief of Staff won't support Trump.

Trump's former Vice President won't support Trump.

No living US Republican president or vice-president will support Trump.

But sure, they are "politicians".






Title: Re: More than 200 former Bush, McCain and Romney staffers endorse Harris
Post by: Fiatless on September 03, 2024, 08:59:32 PM


The 200 Republicans who decided to support Kamala Harris are politicians. And politicians will always support candidates who give them a better deal. Don't trust them because the support is for personal interest.

Quite the contrary, every person on that list will never work in politics ever again. That's the personal sacrifice they made to put their name to that statement.
Yeah, they might not want to secure political positions, but they have children, relatives and friends who wants such political appointments. They also have interest in so many companies and projects that will be favoured if Harris wins. They are seeking political connections to enrich their families and cronies. What you call personal sacrifice is for personal gains.


Title: Re: More than 200 former Bush, McCain and Romney staffers endorse Harris
Post by: legiteum on September 03, 2024, 09:02:01 PM


The 200 Republicans who decided to support Kamala Harris are politicians. And politicians will always support candidates who give them a better deal. Don't trust them because the support is for personal interest.

Quite the contrary, every person on that list will never work in politics ever again. That's the personal sacrifice they made to put their name to that statement.
Yeah, they might not want to secure political positions, but they have children, relatives and friends who wants such political appointments. They also have interest in so many companies and projects that will be favoured if Harris wins. They are seeking political connections to enrich their families and cronies. What you call personal sacrifice is for personal gains.

Wow, you're really reaching here, aren't you? Their children? Are you serious?



Title: Re: More than 200 former Bush, McCain and Romney staffers endorse Harris
Post by: Fiatless on September 03, 2024, 09:22:37 PM
Wow, you're really reaching here, aren't you? Their children? Are you serious?
I know you are aware of the allegations that Hunter Biden used his father's connections to get favor from MBNA America, BHR, and Burisma Holding.


Title: Re: More than 200 former Bush, McCain and Romney staffers endorse Harris
Post by: Hispo on September 03, 2024, 11:21:36 PM
As a foreigner who follows politics from the United States, it does not takes much to realize the USA have influence over all the countries on the planet, because of the size of their economy and the military headquarters abroad, whether we like it or not.
I don't want the USA to burn or to have to go through a recession to realize they have committed a mistake by choosing the wrong person for the most important job within Federal Government, but I cannot ignore the evil the USA has historically done to other nations and also to their own people, in that sense, I would just wish for the Republican and Democrat party to go back to what they used to be in the 2000s and debate on policy, instead of culture wars, which does not solve problems.

By the way, the signal would be more obvious for the remaining of the classical Republican voters out there if Bush himself decided to step up and endorsed Kamala Harris himself, in the same way those former staffers are doing.


Title: Re: More than 200 former Bush, McCain and Romney staffers endorse Harris
Post by: legiteum on September 03, 2024, 11:24:04 PM
Wow, you're really reaching here, aren't you? Their children? Are you serious?
I know you are aware of the allegations that Hunter Biden used his father's connections to get favor from MBNA America, BHR, and Burisma Holding.

ROFL. ""Hunter Biden""? LOL

Are you aware Biden isn't running for president anymore?

My god, you Republicans seriously only have one shtick you just keep repeating regardless of what is going on in the world.

 :D :D :D

By the way, the signal would be more obvious for the remaining of the classical Republican voters out there if Bush himself decided to step up and endorsed Kamala Harris himself, in the same way those former staffers are doing.

Bush is very pointedly not endorsing Trump and did not show up at the Republican convention, which is unheard of for a former president of a party.

I'm one of those "classical Republicans", and I think most of us are voting for Harris...








Title: Re: More than 200 former Bush, McCain and Romney staffers endorse Harris
Post by: BADecker on September 04, 2024, 12:12:46 AM
@OP

Where do you think that those people get their money? It isn't from working a job. Rather, it's from investing in the destruction of nations around the world, and people in those nations.

All that Trump would do is take their murdering money-mongering away from them, and give it back to average Americans the way it should be. How will Trump do this? Tariffs to stop the influx of foreign products into America, and deregulation so that Americans can make the products themselves.

Americans get rich off their own working. Places like Frisco and LA are cleaned up by Americans going back to work.

8)


Title: Re: More than 200 former Bush, McCain and Romney staffers endorse Harris
Post by: Fiatless on September 04, 2024, 09:36:25 AM
ROFL. ""Hunter Biden""? LOL

Are you aware Biden isn't running for president anymore?

My god, you Republicans seriously only have one shtick you just keep repeating regardless of what is going on in the world.

 :D :D :D
I don't even live in the US nor do I have any affiliation with or sympathy for any political party there. I don't like Donald Trump and will not vote for him because he hates minorities and destabilized the Middle East. His anti-immigration policies will increase human suffering. I don't also like Democrats because I do not agree with some of their policies. But if I were an American I would vote for a candidate that would stop the genocide in Palestine.        


Title: Re: More than 200 former Bush, McCain and Romney staffers endorse Harris
Post by: kotmolodec on September 04, 2024, 10:28:07 AM
Go ahead, Trump, crush these leftists and LGBT trash! ;D 8)


Title: Re: More than 200 former Bush, McCain and Romney staffers endorse Harris
Post by: Mugtaiya on September 04, 2024, 03:51:53 PM
Wow, you're really reaching here, aren't you? Their children? Are you serious?
I know you are aware of the allegations that Hunter Biden used his father's connections to get favor from MBNA America, BHR, and Burisma Holding.

ROFL. ""Hunter Biden""? LOL

Are you aware Biden isn't running for president anymore?
They all bathe in the exact same bath water.
They tossed the water out along with Hunter and his laptop.


Title: Re: More than 200 former Bush, McCain and Romney staffers endorse Harris
Post by: legiteum on September 04, 2024, 03:57:53 PM

They all bathe in the exact same bath water.
They tossed the water out along with Hunter and his laptop.


They who? The entire human race? All Democrats? Any person who is not Trump?



Title: Re: More than 200 former Bush, McCain and Romney staffers endorse Harris
Post by: paxmao on September 04, 2024, 05:37:12 PM
There are many Republicans that are not happy about Trump and have never been. There is a mixture of fear of taking him on with the realisation that it may not be politically possible to take on Trump without a massive risk to their careers. So, the solution they are seeking for is actually a Democrat win that will put Trump in the history books.


Title: Re: More than 200 former Bush, McCain and Romney staffers endorse Harris
Post by: legiteum on September 04, 2024, 06:02:38 PM
There are many Republicans that are not happy about Trump and have never been. There is a mixture of fear of taking him on with the realisation that it may not be politically possible to take on Trump without a massive risk to their careers. So, the solution they are seeking for is actually a Democrat win that will put Trump in the history books.

That's certainly true for many Republicans who still wish to have a career in politics, and there are obviously many like that. Indeed, if you were to somehow organize a secret poll (and boy oh boy would it need to be secret :)), I suspect at least half of elected Republicans secretly hope Trump will lose and leave their party. He has been a disaster for the conservative cause and has desecrated every single thing the party has ever stood for.

But sadly only a small percentage of Republicans have been ready to end their political careers by failing to support Trump.

And by the way, let's get one thing out of the way: turning against Trump doesn't make you a "Democrat", because absolutely none of these people would ever be accepted in the Democratic party or its broader community. They have fought Democrats all of their lives, and they don't agree with Democrats about almost anything.

These people know that their careers either directly in, or related to politics is over.


Title: Re: More than 200 former Bush, McCain and Romney staffers endorse Harris
Post by: Hispo on September 04, 2024, 07:24:52 PM

Bush is very pointedly not endorsing Trump and did not show up at the Republican convention, which is unheard of for a former president of a party.

I'm one of those "classical Republicans", and I think most of us are voting for Harris...



Perhaps Bush is aware that his endorsement or the lack of it would not make much of a difference in this unprecedented presidential race, so he is keeping his thoughts to himself and not being explicit about whether he would like to see Trump again in the white house or not.
Also, I am very careful when comes to statements like those which alledge most "classical republicans" are likely to vote for Harris instead of Trump, in my opinion, people like you who still consider to be from the GOP are provably more inclined just to stay home at election day and not give their vote to anyone.

Also I am personally curious on what your definition of a classical Republican is, compared to what it has happened to the party nowadays. I have my own definition, you probably have yours, which may be completely different.

What could be the straw which broke the camel's back, when comes to making a classical Republican to vote for the opposing party rather staying home anyways? IIs it because the party of "law and order" is not supposed to have a convicted felon as leader?


Title: Re: More than 200 former Bush, McCain and Romney staffers endorse Harris
Post by: legiteum on September 04, 2024, 08:01:42 PM

Perhaps Bush is aware that his endorsement or the lack of it would not make much of a difference in this unprecedented presidential race, so he is keeping his thoughts to himself and not being explicit about whether he would like to see Trump again in the white house or not.


His silence speaks volumes, and I suspect it doesn't matter to his career as to whether he is silent or not: he knows he will never work in politics again when he didn't show up to the RNC and endorse Trump.


Quote
Also, I am very careful when comes to statements like those which alledge most "classical republicans" are likely to vote for Harris instead of Trump, in my opinion, people like you who still consider to be from the GOP are provably more inclined just to stay home at election day and not give their vote to anyone.


I think there's a range of reactions. Many will stay home and not vote, some will vote for Democrats this election, some will just vote against Trump and vote for other Republicans, and so on.

Quote
Also I am personally curious on what your definition of a classical Republican is, compared to what it has happened to the party nowadays. I have my own definition, you probably have yours, which may be completely different.

What could be the straw which broke the camel's back, when comes to making a classical Republican to vote for the opposing party rather staying home anyways? IIs it because the party of "law and order" is not supposed to have a convicted felon as leader?

Republicans used to stand for limited government (but they always expanded government just as much as Democrats did)--but Trump wanted a bigger stimulus than Biden did in the last election, and Trump promises to massively expand the US government now with the police force he will need to ban abortions.

Republicans used to stand for law and order--and now they've nominated a felon to lead their party, and predictably, they now support and promote criminality.

Republicans used to stand for a strong national defense. Now Trump is leading the party to surrender to Putin and Xi and promotes dictators all over the world who wish to annihilate the USA. Trump called the buried dead at Arlington, "suckers and losers" because they didn't get their rich daddy to get them out of armed service like he did.

Republicans used to stand for traditional American values like personal honesty and integrity. Now the GOP leader boffed two porn stars while his (nude model) wife was home with his baby son.

Trump is, in short, the desecration of everything single thing Republicans used to stand for.



Title: Re: More than 200 former Bush, McCain and Romney staffers endorse Harris
Post by: Hispo on September 04, 2024, 09:03:20 PM
...

Trump is, in short, the desecration of everything single thing Republicans used to stand for.



In the majority of those examples, we could point out your are right and Trump would have never had a chance to be the leader of the party back when the Republican party was more serious on their own principles.However, I find it is interesting how he still has managed to make a high percentage of people believe the core of republican values are still intact or there is something left of the classical party, which he is alledgedly representing.
It seems to me, politics from both sides of the political spectrum, has developed in choosing one candidate in order to prevent the opposite one to make it through their path and reach power, that is at least the perception I have got when Trump faced Hillary Clinton and I am getting a similar feeling this year with Trump facing Kamala.

If people were more willing to admit they could be wrong about their ideas and stayed away from the extremes, it would be possible for both of the major parties of the country to go back in time on what they used to be. (I cannot tell any major differences between nowadays democrat party and them back in the 2000s, though, perhaps they were less involved in so called "culture wars").


Title: Re: More than 200 former Bush, McCain and Romney staffers endorse Harris
Post by: legiteum on September 04, 2024, 09:18:45 PM

In the majority of those examples, we could point out your are right and Trump would have never had a chance to be the leader of the party back when the Republican party was more serious on their own principles.However, I find it is interesting how he still has managed to make a high percentage of people believe the core of republican values are still intact or there is something left of the classical party, which he is alledgedly representing.


I think a few things are going on:

1. Trump brought in millions of former Democrat voters to his side, as he lost millions of previous Republican voters.

2. I think it's pretty much proven at this point that... not a lot of Republican voters really had those values, and instead cared about other things e.g. racism or bigotry and so on.

3. Sheer brand memory: lots of people consider the Republican party the "conservative party" and lots of people still call it that--even though it's not. (Or, people just assume "Republican" and "conservative" are the same thing). And conservatives used to stand for a lot of good things, and Republicans still benefit from that brand even though they are nothing like that any longer.


Quote

It seems to me, politics from both sides of the political spectrum, has developed in choosing one candidate in order to prevent the opposite one to make it through their path and reach power, that is at least the perception I have got when Trump faced Hillary Clinton and I am getting a similar feeling this year with Trump facing Kamala.


Most of the Republican campaign is complaining about how terrible the Democrats are, and how terrible America is. The Democrats, on the other hand, clearly have a much more positive message, and have lots of policies they want to do (even if they aren't the policies you personally want, you have to admit they have a big plate of ideas). The only policies Republicans have are ones they don't want to talk about since they are super-unpopular, such as banning abortion, or deporting children who have never been to the country they are sending them, or lowering taxes on the super-rich. Hence Republicans must stick to "culture wars" and personalities.

Note that Republicans stuck with their felon even though they hated him, and Democrats tossed out their leader in a heartbeat. The Democrats are about policy, and the Republicans are about personality.


Quote
If people were more willing to admit they could be wrong about their ideas and stayed away from the extremes, it would be possible for both of the major parties of the country to go back in time on what they used to be. (I cannot tell any major differences between nowadays democrat party and them back in the 2000s, though, perhaps they were less involved in so called "culture wars").


I can't either. On the other hand, the Republicans are a completely different political party now. Republicans are promising radical change, and Democrats are promising more of the same that we've had (that's why Democrats are actually more "conservative" now than the Republicans :)).









Title: Re: More than 200 former Bush, McCain and Romney staffers endorse Harris
Post by: Hispo on September 04, 2024, 10:15:15 PM
...


I think a few things are going on:

1. Trump brought in millions of former Democrat voters to his side, as he lost millions of previous Republican voters.

2. I think it's pretty much proven at this point that... not a lot of Republican voters really had those values, and instead cared about other things e.g. racism or bigotry and so on.

3. Sheer brand memory: lots of people consider the Republican party the "conservative party" and lots of people still call it that--even though it's not. (Or, people just assume "Republican" and "conservative" are the same thing). And conservatives used to stand for a lot of good things, and Republicans still benefit from that brand even though they are nothing like that any longer.


I don't get why Trump could have brought in many former democrat voters, though. You would need to further explain that to me, since I don't understand it.

In the topic of racism and bigotry. Is it truly necessary for people who are those things to be Republican? We both could associate those adjectives as something negative to be associated with, specially if we talk about a major political party of a country like the USA, is not possible for a racist or a bigot to vote democrat?
Also, In my mind, being conservative and being Republican are not necessarily the same, there can be people who consider themselves to be conservative and yet they vote third party or they do not vote at all. The Republican party led by Donald, mostly has based their political speech on how bad things alledgedly are under the presidency of Biden, they offer to overhaul things, but that would not call that to be progressive and nobody in the party would dare to say what Trump is offering is actually doing backwards in time/development.

One example of going backwards, is how he talks about tarifs... as if was some kind of magical economical policy would could make foes of the country (like China) to bend down and start to lose money to the United States, even when economists of all political branches have already agreed tarifs would not benefits the people in the slightest... it seems the opinion of the experts does not matter anymore.


Title: Re: More than 200 former Bush, McCain and Romney staffers endorse Harris
Post by: legiteum on September 05, 2024, 12:40:25 AM

I don't get why Trump could have brought in many former democrat voters, though. You would need to further explain that to me, since I don't understand it.


It's just the election results from 2016 and 2020: Trump flipped millions of Obama voters to Trump and the Republicans. A small chunk of the Democratic base--mostly white working class--switched over to Republican for purely "cultural" reasons. These voters voted against their own economic interests because a) they were convinced that the Democrats weren't going to help them in the way they wanted; and b) the stopped caring about economic matters as much as they cared about these "cultural" issues, e.g. racial equality, gender equality and so forth.


Quote
In the topic of racism and bigotry. Is it truly necessary for people who are those things to be Republican?

If it truly necessary to be antisemitic to be a member of the Nazi party? I guess it's theoretically possible, but you clearly have to be comfortable with it enough that you don't mind that being the new law of the land.


Quote
We both could associate those adjectives as something negative to be associated with, specially if we talk about a major political party of a country like the USA, is not possible for a racist or a bigot to vote democrat?


Sure, and 30 years ago, Democrats probably had the majority of the bigots, but Republicans went towards them and Democrats went away from them, and not the roles are flipped.


Quote
One example of going backwards, is how he talks about tarifs... as if was some kind of magical economical policy would could make foes of the country (like China) to bend down and start to lose money to the United States, even when economists of all political branches have already agreed tarifs would not benefits the people in the slightest... it seems the opinion of the experts does not matter anymore.

Trump's tariffs are junk economics designed to justify racial bigotry. All of America's economic problems, according to Trump's speeches, are due to "those people" taking up all of the resources. Today, Trump's VP literally said that they must deport 11 million workers from the US when they are elected in order to solve the housing shortage. He literally said that we could just get rid of 11 million people and then there would be more places to live.

In reality, of course, the only way to deal with a housing shortage is to build more of them and many of those 11 million... work in the construction industry.

Hence the report by Goldman Sachs today explaining how Trump's policies will lead... directly to a recession here...





 







Title: Re: More than 200 former Bush, McCain and Romney staffers endorse Harris
Post by: TwitchySeal on September 05, 2024, 12:40:20 PM
There are many Republicans that are not happy about Trump and have never been. There is a mixture of fear of taking him on with the realisation that it may not be politically possible to take on Trump without a massive risk to their careers. So, the solution they are seeking for is actually a Democrat win that will put Trump in the history books.

It's not just their careers they worry about.  If Trump says something bad about you on his fake twitter site or at a rally or interview, even if it's an obvious lie that could be easily disproven....get ready for you and your family to deal with an army of angry trolls that have convinced themselves that harassing your family and sending you death threats makes them 'patriotic'.

Intimidation is a great way to consolidate power.


Title: Re: More than 200 former Bush, McCain and Romney staffers endorse Harris
Post by: BADecker on September 05, 2024, 03:00:04 PM
There are many Republicans that are not happy about Trump and have never been. There is a mixture of fear of taking him on with the realisation that it may not be politically possible to take on Trump without a massive risk to their careers. So, the solution they are seeking for is actually a Democrat win that will put Trump in the history books.

It's not just their careers they worry about.  If Trump says something bad about you on his fake twitter site or at a rally or interview, even if it's an obvious lie that could be easily disproven....get ready for you and your family to deal with an army of angry trolls that have convinced themselves that harassing your family and sending you death threats makes them 'patriotic'.

Intimidation is a great way to consolidate power.

If Trump says something bad about you, it's because you were or are bad.

Intimidation IS a great way to consolidate power. If you want to see this, all you need to do is look at the Biden/Harris funding of Ukraine that has intimidated a whole bunch of solid Ukrainian citizens to flee the country, and has killed off a million, or so, Ukrainians and Russians in less that 3 years.

This is what the money-making, warmongering Reps who are against Trump want. They don't really care who dies and who lives. All they want is money, and people who will be their slaves for some of that money. Those anti-Trump people are despicable.

8)


Title: Re: More than 200 former Bush, McCain and Romney staffers endorse Harris
Post by: Mugtaiya on September 05, 2024, 03:34:08 PM
https://talkimg.com/images/2024/09/05/9eXrz.jpeg


Title: Re: More than 200 former Bush, McCain and Romney staffers endorse Harris
Post by: TwitchySeal on September 05, 2024, 08:20:10 PM
I don't get why Trump could have brought in many former democrat voters, though. You would need to further explain that to me, since I don't understand it.

There were a surprising number of voters who voted twice for Obama and then supported Bernie in the 2016 primary and then voted for Trump when Bernie wasn't the nominee.  They wanted change, and that's what Trump was in 2016.  Hillary was the opposite.  Some of them have since voted against Trump, but not all.


In the topic of racism and bigotry. Is it truly necessary for people who are those things to be Republican? We both could associate those adjectives as something negative to be associated with, specially if we talk about a major political party of a country like the USA, is not possible for a racist or a bigot to vote democrat?

It's possible.  There's definitely some antisemitic democrats right now.  But the republican party platform has evolved from a fiscally conservative, pragmatic approach to one based on homophobia/transphobia, they argue that immigrants are bad people, 'poisoning the blood of our country' and 'replacing' white people, it's become politically incorrect to call out any sort of racism except when white people are the perceived victims (Trump loves to play the victim of racism card).  They are passing bills that make it illegal for teachers to acknowledge the existence of gay people,  they've dehumanized transgender people,  and they're rewriting African American History classes in highschool to make it seem like white people were actually helping the slaves.  I'm (https://www.nea.org/nea-today/all-news-articles/floridas-new-history-standard-blow-our-students-and-nation) serious. (https://www.law.georgetown.edu/gender-journal/online/volume-xxiii-online/the-dangerous-consequences-of-floridas-dont-say-gay-bill-on-lgbtq-youth-in-florida/)

Fun fact: Alabama and Mississippi, two of the most Republican states still today celebrate Martin Luther King Jr. day differently than the other 48 states.  In these two states that day is Robert E Lee day, named after the guy who lead the south in the civil war to defend the right to own black people as if they were live stock or property.


Title: Re: More than 200 former Bush, McCain and Romney staffers endorse Harris
Post by: BADecker on September 05, 2024, 10:18:19 PM
^^^ There are two basic reasons why people might be against Trump:
1. They don't realize how good he is;
2. They don't realize how bad anything else is.

8)


Title: Re: More than 200 former Bush, McCain and Romney staffers endorse Harris
Post by: caroasi on September 08, 2024, 10:57:45 PM
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2024-election/200-former-bush-mccain-romney-staffers-endorse-harris-rcna168363

It's sometimes hard to make those who do not live in the USA understand our context here. If you don't get US news on a constant basis, you might think that Trump is just another American politician with a different viewpoint on certain things than the other candidate.

Here are 200 Republicans--Trump's own party--who are warning their fellow Americans of the danger of a Trump presidency. These are people who worked to get Republicans elected all of their lives, and have abruptly ended their own careers by making this statement.

Trump is a convicted criminal who has promised to seek retribution against anybody who does not support him. He is manifestly corrupt, in a way that no US president ever has been, and he is calling for radical changes to the US economy including the initiation of a trade war that will send the US into a recession. He is promising to make abortion illegal across the USA, and allow states to institute controls at their borders in order to keep women from escaping to have an abortion.

And he is promising to hand over Europe to Putin by pulling out of NATO, so if you live in Europe, you better be prepared to pay a lot higher taxes for the war coming to your country, and if you are under 35, you better be prepared to go fight on the eastern front.

Maybe you don't care about what happens to us Americans if Trump is elected, but you should at least care about yourself and your own country. The US economy going down the tubes and the US stopping imports will ripple across to every country on the globe.

Oh yeah, and you know what happens to Bitcoin when the US economy is disrupted? People lose their jobs, or are afraid of that happening--and when that happens, they sell their Bitcoin in order to pay the bills. You can't HODL when your rent is due and you don't have the money.

I know a lot of foreigners have a "burn baby burn" view of the US and want us to elect Trump because they think it will end our country, but you are seriously hurting yourself by wanting this too.
Politics is more about political positions than people. It seems that Kennedy fans are switching to the Republican side to some extent, while some Cheney fans will switch to Democrat side. But the question is what underlying political positions are the cause of those switches? Cheney is best known for his support of the Iraq War, so perhaps this represents a position of Democrats to be strong supporters of the war efforts. Bobby Kennedy is best known for his position for better health regulations.

Being a convicted criminal as a politician in a country of political persecution is a badge of honor for Trump to many people, which is why him being convicted leads to more support. The unconvicted politicians are the ones people are more concerned about. The ones whose evidence-based criminal accusations don't lead to so much as an investigation are the most dangerous of course as I suppose you might or might not agree?

I have no reason to believe Trump has any intention or desire to pull out of NATO, so long as everyone abides by their NATO agreements. There is no desire by the Republican party expressed for that position. I think most people agree with Trump that if too many NATO countries do not do their promised actions as part of NATO, that withdrawal would make sense. I think most people also believe that NATO countries will all do their part rather than disband... so that is a reasonable position to have by Trump.

People generally believe Trump to have better economic policies than Biden/Harris. Overall, you seem allied with a Bush type Republican because you are in favor of overseas wars (as does Bush/Cheney), so I can understand why you'd be disappointed with Trump who will go down in history as having among the most peaceful record for the military among all US presidents.

It would seem that support for war(s) is the primary reason that former Republicans are switching to the Democrat party, but that is vastly outnumbered by supporters for peace have Democrats switching to the Republican party. This endorsement really highlights this political positional swap.


Title: Re: More than 200 former Bush, McCain and Romney staffers endorse Harris
Post by: Hispo on September 09, 2024, 12:29:57 AM
...

I have read about the ongoing rethoric of the Republican party from Florida which tries to re-write history and make look like the white people, who were slave owners, were actually helping their slaves by introducing them to their "jobs" and by helping them to learn "skills" on those jobs. To me all of that is BS, a very blatant attempt to whitewash what it was obviously one of the lowest eras in American history.
In the topic of anti-Semitism and the democrat party: It should seems the anti-Semitism is rather a political consequence of the policies which are being taken by the state of Israel, rather than an actual hatred towards the jewish culture, religion and people. Most of the Jewish population in the USA are progressive and are more likely to vote for the democratic party than for the Republicans, instead of focusing on developing those negative feelings against a group of people who does not have any control over the government of Netanyahu, it would be less conflictive to redirect the "anti-Semitism" against the state of Israel and not the Jewish people in the USA.
It is a very complex topic, no doubt about it.

Still, regardless who the president is, I am certain military and economical aid for Israel won't cease to come from the USA. Sometimes it is baffling to me how a country which alledgedly cannot afford universal healthcare and free college education for their people continues to fund a country with both of those features plus weapons and missiles.


Title: Re: More than 200 former Bush, McCain and Romney staffers endorse Harris
Post by: legiteum on September 09, 2024, 02:44:42 AM

I have no reason to believe Trump has any intention or desire to pull out of NATO, so long as everyone abides by their NATO agreements.


Trump and Vance regularly repeat Kremlin propaganda, which is why Putin is spending billions of dollars trying to get Trump elected. There is absolutely no question the US will pull out of NATO if Trump is elected, and Ukraine will immediately fall to Russia, and Russia will mass troops at the Polish border shortly after. Without the US in NATO, Europe cannot stop Russia from invading, and war will spread across Europe. Seeing this--and seeing Trump's approach to foreign policy--China will take Taiwan because they know the US will not intervene. Then China will be free to expand their presence on that side of the globe, as, again without the USA, there will be nothing whatsoever to stop China.

WWII was allowed to happen with the same "America first" rhetoric that Trump is using today. Trump will start WWIII the same way, but WWIII will kill 10x more humans.

All of this will happen in the context of a US economy wrecked by Trump's isolationist, trade-war economic policies, which will send prices through the roof in the US, and leave us unable to compete against countries that freely trade with others. Add to that the deportation of 11 million US residents--millions of whom work in the food and construction industries--and you will see a Trump administration with it's back against the wall economically, which will be very dangerous.

Still, regardless who the president is, I am certain military and economical aid for Israel won't cease to come from the USA. Sometimes it is baffling to me how a country which alledgedly cannot afford universal healthcare and free college education for their people continues to fund a country with both of those features plus weapons and missiles.

I wouldn't be so sure. At the philosophical heart of the Republican party these days is the White Supremacists, and they are clearly very antisemitic (truly antisemitic, not just anti-Netanyahu). Vance had recently talked about abandoning Israel for this reason, as have other prominent Republican pundits.

The only serious philosophical support for Israel in the Republican party comes from those who support them because... they believe Israel must exist intact so all of the jews can be killed there (https://www.msnbc.com/opinion/msnbc-opinion/truth-many-evangelical-christians-support-israel-rcna121481).

There are indeed a few in the Republican party who will still support Israel, Taiwan and Ukraine, but they have done so in opposition to Trump and won't survive if Trump wins.









Title: Re: More than 200 former Bush, McCain and Romney staffers endorse Harris
Post by: BADecker on September 09, 2024, 03:00:44 AM
The answer is simple. Here is an "X" copy of a Tucker TikTok short video showing what it is all about.


Tucker comments on Cheney endorsing Kamala Harris. - https://x.com/WallStreetSilv/status/1832641111896027401?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1832753153944506628%7Ctwgr%5E731f816ee7f9152a1ea219901edf3a94156339f4%7Ctwcon%5Es3_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.thegatewaypundit.com%2F2024%2F09%2Fif-you-think-its-okay-kill-people-order%2F


8)


Title: Re: More than 200 former Bush, McCain and Romney staffers endorse Harris
Post by: TwitchySeal on September 09, 2024, 07:56:20 AM
The answer is simple. Here is an "X" copy of a Tucker TikTok short video showing what it is all about.


Tucker comments on Cheney endorsing Kamala Harris. - https://x.com/WallStreetSilv/status/1832641111896027401?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1832753153944506628%7Ctwgr%5E731f816ee7f9152a1ea219901edf3a94156339f4%7Ctwcon%5Es3_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.thegatewaypundit.com%2F2024%2F09%2Fif-you-think-its-okay-kill-people-order%2F


8)


Good old Tucker Carlson.

Quote
Alex Pfeiffer:
Trump has a pretty low rate at success in his business ventures.

Tucker Carlson:
That’s for sure. All of them fail. What he’s good at is destroying things. He’s the undisputed world champion of that.

Quote
Carlson:
I had to try to make the WH disavow her, (Sidney Powell) which they obviously should have done long before.

Laura Ingraham:
No serious lawyer could believe what they were saying.

Carlson:
But they said nothing in public. Pretty disgusting. And now Trump, I learned this morning, is sitting back and letting them lose the senate. He doesn’t care. I care.
Quote
Carlson:
We are very, very close to being able to ignore Trump most nights. I truly can’t wait.  I hate him passionately.


Title: Re: More than 200 former Bush, McCain and Romney staffers endorse Harris
Post by: paxmao on September 09, 2024, 10:27:55 AM
The answer is simple. Here is an "X" copy of a Tucker TikTok short video showing what it is all about.


Tucker comments on Cheney endorsing Kamala Harris. - https://x.com/WallStreetSilv/status/1832641111896027401?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1832753153944506628%7Ctwgr%5E731f816ee7f9152a1ea219901edf3a94156339f4%7Ctwcon%5Es3_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.thegatewaypundit.com%2F2024%2F09%2Fif-you-think-its-okay-kill-people-order%2F


8)


Good old Tucker Carlson.

Quote
Alex Pfeiffer:
Trump has a pretty low rate at success in his business ventures.

Tucker Carlson:
That’s for sure. All of them fail. What he’s good at is destroying things. He’s the undisputed world champion of that.

Quote
Carlson:
I had to try to make the WH disavow her, (Sidney Powell) which they obviously should have done long before.

Laura Ingraham:
No serious lawyer could believe what they were saying.

Carlson:
But they said nothing in public. Pretty disgusting. And now Trump, I learned this morning, is sitting back and letting them lose the senate. He doesn’t care. I care.
Quote
Carlson:
We are very, very close to being able to ignore Trump most nights. I truly can’t wait.  I hate him passionately.

That is quite surprising, but at the same time not really surprising.

Trump has taken over a party on the ground of popular support. The most classic example I can think of is Saturnino in the Roman Republic. He rised to power by promoting discontent and fight among the commoners. But one must understand that the mere nature of the public opinion of the masses is by default, variable.

Most Republicans would be happy to get rid of Trump even if they cannot publicly say so.


Title: Re: More than 200 former Bush, McCain and Romney staffers endorse Harris
Post by: jvanname on September 09, 2024, 11:31:49 AM
The real reason that Bush supports Kamala is that Bush was a drunk driver just like Kamala's running mate Tim Walz who got drunk and went 90 mph in a 55 mph zone. This is completely and totally inexcusable. But Americans are fucked up obese pieces of shit, so they love voting for drunk drivers. If you are not in the USA, you need to hate Americans as much as possible because Americans fucking deserve all the hate they can get.

Regards,

-Joseph Van Name Ph.D.


Title: Re: More than 200 former Bush, McCain and Romney staffers endorse Harris
Post by: Hispo on September 09, 2024, 12:31:15 PM
Still, regardless who the president is, I am certain military and economical aid for Israel won't cease to come from the USA. Sometimes it is baffling to me how a country which alledgedly cannot afford universal healthcare and free college education for their people continues to fund a country with both of those features plus weapons and missiles.

I wouldn't be so sure. At the philosophical heart of the Republican party these days is the White Supremacists, and they are clearly very antisemitic (truly antisemitic, not just anti-Netanyahu). Vance had recently talked about abandoning Israel for this reason, as have other prominent Republican pundits.

The only serious philosophical support for Israel in the Republican party comes from those who support them because... they believe Israel must exist intact so all of the jews can be killed there (https://www.msnbc.com/opinion/msnbc-opinion/truth-many-evangelical-christians-support-israel-rcna121481).

There are indeed a few in the Republican party who will still support Israel, Taiwan and Ukraine, but they have done so in opposition to Trump and won't survive if Trump wins.


I was aware of the religious reason why evangelical Republicans blindly support Israel as an state, because there is a prophecy behind all of it in the New testament. Sure... Still I believe the unconditional support for Israel would not cease even if Vance and Trump reach power in the United States.
Trump's is appealing to the average white supremacists, for the things he says during his rallies, but even he has to go to Israel and kiss the wall of lamentations like all past presidents in the last decade have (that upset white supremacists very much, I recall), and also Trump has bragged several times on how he was (alledgedly) the best president for Israel interests.
Vance can blow all the dog whistles he wants during rallies in this presidential career, however, actions is what happens and I am not expecting the great and mighty USA to leave Israel alone when it is completely surrounded with other nations which want to wipe it out existence.

It is quite ironic, by the way. If any other country broke as many international laws as Israel has, that country would have been invaded already.


Title: Re: More than 200 former Bush, McCain and Romney staffers endorse Harris
Post by: legiteum on September 09, 2024, 12:58:18 PM

Vance can blow all the dog whistles he wants during rallies in this presidential career, however, actions is what happens and I am not expecting the great and mighty USA to leave Israel alone when it is completely surrounded with other nations which want to wipe it out existence.


If the US abandons Ukraine--which they will likely do if Trump is elected--then anything is possible.






Title: Re: More than 200 former Bush, McCain and Romney staffers endorse Harris
Post by: jvanname on September 09, 2024, 01:38:29 PM
Still, regardless who the president is, I am certain military and economical aid for Israel won't cease to come from the USA. Sometimes it is baffling to me how a country which alledgedly cannot afford universal healthcare and free college education for their people continues to fund a country with both of those features plus weapons and missiles.

I wouldn't be so sure. At the philosophical heart of the Republican party these days is the White Supremacists, and they are clearly very antisemitic (truly antisemitic, not just anti-Netanyahu). Vance had recently talked about abandoning Israel for this reason, as have other prominent Republican pundits.

The only serious philosophical support for Israel in the Republican party comes from those who support them because... they believe Israel must exist intact so all of the jews can be killed there (https://www.msnbc.com/opinion/msnbc-opinion/truth-many-evangelical-christians-support-israel-rcna121481).

There are indeed a few in the Republican party who will still support Israel, Taiwan and Ukraine, but they have done so in opposition to Trump and won't survive if Trump wins.


I was aware of the religious reason why evangelical Republicans blindly support Israel as an state, because there is a prophecy behind all of it in the New testament. Sure... Still I believe the unconditional support for Israel would not cease even if Vance and Trump reach power in the United States.
Trump's is appealing to the average white supremacists, for the things he says during his rallies, but even he has to go to Israel and kiss the wall of lamentations like all past presidents in the last decade have (that upset white supremacists very much, I recall), and also Trump has bragged several times on how he was (alledgedly) the best president for Israel interests.
Vance can blow all the dog whistles he wants during rallies in this presidential career, however, actions is what happens and I am not expecting the great and mighty USA to leave Israel alone when it is completely surrounded with other nations which want to wipe it out existence.

It is quite ironic, by the way. If any other country broke as many international laws as Israel has, that country would have been invaded already.
Here you go endorsing drunk drivers. You are a fucked up piece of shit. Drunk drivers like George Bush and Tim Walz will go to HELL where they will be spanked on the @$$ by demons for all eternity. But before George Bush and Tim Walz are spanked, they will revert back into children. After all, hitting and spanking a child is discipline while hitting and spanking an adult is BDSM or domestic violence (well, at least it is according to the creeps).

Peace and joy,

-Joseph Van Name Ph.D.


Title: Re: More than 200 former Bush, McCain and Romney staffers endorse Harris
Post by: Mpamaegbu on September 09, 2024, 03:02:23 PM
You can't HODL when your rent is due and you don't have the money.
You're apt there! It's the same way anyone would expect a sick Bitcoiner to keep hodling in expectation of a bull run. First thing first.

Quote
I know a lot of foreigners have a "burn baby burn" view of the US and want us to elect Trump because they think it will end our country, but you are seriously hurting yourself by wanting this too.
I used to think that's what every other country thought of my country each time we had crises on our hand. Now that I've read this, I'm beginning to realize it's the same way every other country sees the other as keeping their distance and maintaining nonchalance towards others' issues. It's a mindset thing. It may not be how it's in reality.


Title: Re: More than 200 former Bush, McCain and Romney staffers endorse Harris
Post by: legiteum on September 09, 2024, 04:36:57 PM

You're apt there! It's the same way anyone would expect a sick Bitcoiner to keep hodling in expectation of a bull run. First thing first.


And this is why the US economy matters to the price of Bitcoin.

There's this stupid mythology that seems to state that the US can go into a deep recession and the price of Bitcoin won't be affected. That's just not true. In fact, it seems to almost track the stock market now.

Most Bitcoin is held by Americans. If America does bad, so will Bitcoin.


Quote
Quote
I know a lot of foreigners have a "burn baby burn" view of the US and want us to elect Trump because they think it will end our country, but you are seriously hurting yourself by wanting this too.
I used to think that's what every other country thought of my country each time we had crises on our hand. Now that I've read this, I'm beginning to realize it's the same way every other country sees the other as keeping their distance and maintaining nonchalance towards others' issues. It's a mindset thing. It may not be how it's in reality.

Yes, but the US is... the US :).  I wish I could say that we could elect whomever here and it wouldn't matter to the world, but in the unique case of the USA, it very much matters. If Trump is elected, we will likely have major wars in both Europe and Asia as Russia and China see their chance to expand while we have a corrupt president.

That will all... negatively effect the price of Bitcoin.

Peru (or whatever) could go could go completely bankrupt Bitcoin wouldn't budge. The US has the ability to drive the price to practically zero if the wrong things happen here.






Title: Re: More than 200 former Bush, McCain and Romney staffers endorse Harris
Post by: BADecker on September 09, 2024, 04:38:42 PM
Until the banking industry is made honest, we are always going to have trouble. Why? For the simple reason that the banks deposit loan promissory notes into an account just like they were checks or money orders - https://duckduckgo.com/?q=Tom+Schauf%2C+bank+freedom&ia=web. So, they get double for their efforts. And that doesn't included interest paid over the years. Video.

https://www.activistpost.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/09/election-tlav-1024x537.jpg


Catherine Austin Fitts Interview – See Beyond The Duopoly & Take Responsibility For Your Future (http://www.freedomsphoenix.com/News/368142-2024-09-09-catherine-austin-fitts-interview-see-beyond-the-duopoly-take-responsibility.htm)



https://www.activistpost.com/2024/09/catherine-austin-fitts-interview-see-beyond-the-duopoly-take-responsibility-for-your-future.html
Joining me today is Catherine Austin Fitts, here to discuss the the upcoming election, the problem of the two-party illusion, and how we must remove the propaganda-laden political veil from our eyes and recognize that one president cannot change the broken-by-design system in which we find ourselves (even if they truly wanted to) and take back responsibility for our future from career politicians, oligarchs, and technocrats who care only about their own power and control.

We also discuss the impending digital control structure being built around us — by both the Left and the Right (otherwise simply known as Your Government) — as we are inundated by never ending indoctrination in the form of corporate media (MSM) and mainstream alternative media (MAM) — as well as the solutions to overcome this imminent risk.
... (https://www.activistpost.com/2024/09/catherine-austin-fitts-interview-see-beyond-the-duopoly-take-responsibility-for-your-future.html)



8)


Title: Re: More than 200 former Bush, McCain and Romney staffers endorse Harris
Post by: TwitchySeal on September 09, 2024, 10:09:07 PM
Until the banking industry is made honest, we are always going to have trouble. Why? For the simple reason that the banks deposit loan promissory notes into an account just like they were checks or money orders - https://duckduckgo.com/?q=Tom+Schauf%2C+bank+freedom&ia=web. So, they get double for their efforts. And that doesn't included interest paid over the years. Video.

https://www.activistpost.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/09/election-tlav-1024x537.jpg


Catherine Austin Fitts Interview – See Beyond The Duopoly & Take Responsibility For Your Future (http://www.freedomsphoenix.com/News/368142-2024-09-09-catherine-austin-fitts-interview-see-beyond-the-duopoly-take-responsibility.htm)



https://www.activistpost.com/2024/09/catherine-austin-fitts-interview-see-beyond-the-duopoly-take-responsibility-for-your-future.html
Joining me today is Catherine Austin Fitts, here to discuss the the upcoming election, the problem of the two-party illusion, and how we must remove the propaganda-laden political veil from our eyes and recognize that one president cannot change the broken-by-design system in which we find ourselves (even if they truly wanted to) and take back responsibility for our future from career politicians, oligarchs, and technocrats who care only about their own power and control.

We also discuss the impending digital control structure being built around us — by both the Left and the Right (otherwise simply known as Your Government) — as we are inundated by never ending indoctrination in the form of corporate media (MSM) and mainstream alternative media (MAM) — as well as the solutions to overcome this imminent risk.
... (https://www.activistpost.com/2024/09/catherine-austin-fitts-interview-see-beyond-the-duopoly-take-responsibility-for-your-future.html)



8)


A conspiracy theory that can only be solved by electing president a convicted felon that took his half billion dollar inheritance and spent the next 50 years committing more types of finance fraud than the most people could list off the top of their head.



Title: Re: More than 200 former Bush, McCain and Romney staffers endorse Harris
Post by: BADecker on September 10, 2024, 10:12:38 PM
Until the banking industry is made honest, we are always going to have trouble. Why? For the simple reason that the banks deposit loan promissory notes into an account just like they were checks or money orders - https://duckduckgo.com/?q=Tom+Schauf%2C+bank+freedom&ia=web. So, they get double for their efforts. And that doesn't included interest paid over the years. Video.

https://www.activistpost.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/09/election-tlav-1024x537.jpg


Catherine Austin Fitts Interview – See Beyond The Duopoly & Take Responsibility For Your Future (http://www.freedomsphoenix.com/News/368142-2024-09-09-catherine-austin-fitts-interview-see-beyond-the-duopoly-take-responsibility.htm)



https://www.activistpost.com/2024/09/catherine-austin-fitts-interview-see-beyond-the-duopoly-take-responsibility-for-your-future.html
Joining me today is Catherine Austin Fitts, here to discuss the the upcoming election, the problem of the two-party illusion, and how we must remove the propaganda-laden political veil from our eyes and recognize that one president cannot change the broken-by-design system in which we find ourselves (even if they truly wanted to) and take back responsibility for our future from career politicians, oligarchs, and technocrats who care only about their own power and control.

We also discuss the impending digital control structure being built around us — by both the Left and the Right (otherwise simply known as Your Government) — as we are inundated by never ending indoctrination in the form of corporate media (MSM) and mainstream alternative media (MAM) — as well as the solutions to overcome this imminent risk.
... (https://www.activistpost.com/2024/09/catherine-austin-fitts-interview-see-beyond-the-duopoly-take-responsibility-for-your-future.html)



8)


A conspiracy theory that can only be solved by electing president a convicted felon that took his half billion dollar inheritance and spent the next 50 years committing more types of finance fraud than the most people could list off the top of their head.



... Rather than electing a Deep State group that has killed millions of people by financing wars worldwide, and essentially destroyed the American economy by not keeping the money at home.

Elect the guy who might have a little fraud on his hands - we're not sure that there wasn't Fraud on the Court by the Court -  while he makes world peace, rather than the group that destroys millions worldwide.

8)


Title: Re: More than 200 former Bush, McCain and Romney staffers endorse Harris
Post by: TwitchySeal on September 11, 2024, 03:42:56 AM
... Rather than electing a Deep State group that has killed millions of people by financing wars worldwide, and essentially destroyed the American economy by not keeping the money at home.


You should try a different argument so people don't try and compare Americas economy to other economies and then with just your argument you convince people that the deep state must either not exist or if they do exist they get credit for the strongest economy in the world.


Title: Re: More than 200 former Bush, McCain and Romney staffers endorse Harris
Post by: jvanname on September 11, 2024, 10:49:42 AM
In the Trump vs Kamala debate, Kamala mentioned "USA shoud be goood in quantim computin which has nothing do do with putin by da was, and AI studff". Kamala failed to mention REVERSIBLE COMPUTING because she clearly has never heard of reversible computing. Reversible computing is the future. If you do not know what reversible computing is, then you are a chlurmck and a chlurmcklet.

Regards,

-Joseph Van Name Ph.D.

P.S. Kamala nominated a DRUNK DRIVER who went 90 MPH IN A 55 MPH ZONE as her vice president. That should tell you all you need to know. But plenty of you will still vote for Kamala because you are fucked up pieces of shit.