Bitcoin Forum

Why be fine when you can become better and finer and gooder?

If Kama wins bitcoin won't disappear that's true and it is because nobody can stop bitcoin. Even Kam can't do that. So we don't have anything to worry about.

However,

Kammie wants to tax the elite in the US and some of those elites do own crypto related businesses. These people will go away to some other country and that will increase the unemployment in the US. That's net a negative for those who work in the crypto businesses in the United States. They will lose their jobs.

Will bitcoin survive? Of course it will but lots of people will get harmed by Kommie's malignant actions.

Then there is Donald J. Trump who promises cheaper electricity. That will enable more mining related businesses in the US. More bitcoins will get minted in the US and those bitcoin farms will employ more US citizens.

Under Trump Bitcoin adoption in the US will skyrocket and that will directly affect the bitcoin prices.

The exact opposite will happen under Kommiela Harris.

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Dayum, he will even have his own crypto company and people still say he is not pro-crypto. Damn fools these demonrats. Where is Kabala's crypto company?

I know the statistics say it is true but I generally dislike statistics and do not trust them much.  Do you really think around or over 20 percent of the Americans have bought Cryptocurrencies?

I believe the percentage is unrealistically high, or maybe I am the one with an unrealistic expectation or perspective.  While I think a significant number of people would be affected by an Anti Bitcoin Government, I do not think the number would be significant enough to trigger a noticeable change in the unemployment rate or the Economy.  Particularly considering that even if over 20 percent of the Americans purchased Cryptocurrencies, that does not guarantee they are still holding on to them.  Maybe they purchased years ago and now only under 5 percent of them are still interested in them.

What is your opinion?

You sound like a conspiracy theorist. What makes you distrust that data?

Statistics is science and I believe in science. It is sad if you ignore statistics which is pretty much mathematics.

Here is another fact for you.

We have never been to moon. It is scientifically impossible (for now at least) but people believe that we did. Huh... Maybe Elon will do something about that one.

None of the above mate.. the US are the people are strongly fighting against bitcoin even at their own dispensations bitcoin was and is still growing, I believe it wasn't created today and I know it wasn't fighten today as well. Whether Trump emerges or not bitcoin will be fine why because not only US are using bitcoin there are vast majority of country that are using bitcoin and if am not mistakenly they aren't holding about 30 percent total supply of bitcoin or more to affect the growth of bitcoin. Yes I know they are the mover but not anymore because bitcoin has grown so large and big with lots of branches that can never be put off or cut off so, even a Branch is being cut off doesn't mean that the entire system is being eliminated due to one single person or country. Partially it would affect the price but after some months then there will be stability in the market.

I don't like socialists so I would never vote for Harris, but what makes you think Trump will change anything for bitcoin? I remember when he was chosen for first term people were speculating that he'll be good for bitcoin because he's a businessman and understands the market. Next thing he said he doesn't like any cryptocurrencies and supports the dollar. Then people hoped someone (slipped my mind) from his close staff would change something for bitcoin because he said he owns some, but unfortunately nothing changed apart from Trump endorsing some shitcoins.

I believe Kamala is going to be bad tech stocks, the US economy, crypto and foreign politics in general, but I doubt Trump will do anything positive for bitcoin. That whole talk about reserve currency is only to get votes.

Trump hype on Bitcoin is seeming real everyday and Harris bent on opposing. Currently, I see Trump as the lesser of two evils, Harris is the worse evil and a no fan of Bitcoin, maybe for her personal interest. Bitcoin needs not much attacks at this point in time, so I'll support trump with the positive hope he'll implement what he's saying.

It's not about how many Americans have Bitcoin or are holding on to it. Bitcoin is a long term project and what happens in the future means a lot to us Bitcoin enthusiasts. If the government favors Bitcoin, more people would adopt it and the value would increase. We would all be happy, so Trump returning to power would see Bitcoins and it's mining farms in the US not disturbed at least, while we anticipated the favorable conditions he promised.

Trump already was the president of the united states and that didn't send the bitcoin price to the moon, so what makes you feel that will happens this time?

I don't feel the bitcoin price get affected by the US politics, since Bitcoin is a global project the change in the price comes with bigger factores and isn't only about the US politics.

bullshit.  the all time highs for btc were all under Biden .

the worst law against btc and all crypto was signed off by trump and put into effect on jan 1 2018.

his law ended all like kind trading of crypto and now generates 200 page tax return for me and many other usa taxpayers.

fuck trump he does not give a shit about crypto.


btw this does not mean Kamala is a crypto fan either.

I agree, he was already a president, and nothing positive occurred for Bitcoin; why should it happen now? Why does it matter so much for Bitcoin who's going to be elected? Why the sudden change of heart from Trump when in 2018 he was completely against it, like @philipma1957 already mentioned? He was the one calling it a scam and a bubble, claiming that it's not money. Yet he has now incorporated it into his political approach. I don't think it matters who's elected; even if electricity prices become cheaper, it won't suddenly resort to a surge in mining farms. 

Politics is hard to understand, so politicians should never be trusted for what they say they will do, especially when it's election time. I'm not saying Trump is a liar or that he wouldn't do what he is promising, but I'm pretty sure that he is using the name of Bitcoin and cryptocurrencies to gain more votes because he is smart, he is both a politician and a businessman, so he knows how to use certain trends and items to gain more benefit at times.

If he wins the elections becomes the president, and fulfills his promises, even if that doesn't prove to be a positive thing for the market in general, it will at least be a good thing for people in the US who are into Bitcoin and cryptocurrencies because they will have more open air to breath.

If he takes a U-turn and doesn't do anything for Bitcoin and cryptocurrencies, there is going to be a lot of backlash from people who might vote for him only because of his stance on Bitcoin and cryptocurrencies.

BTC did an ATH under Trump too. What's your point?

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https://x.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1834311432982135015

Donny is launching World Liberty Financial on Monday.

"We are leaving the outdated big banks behind." -DJT

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Where is Kabala's crypto company?

Right, there isn't one.

The thing is, the administration will never let America down. People will migrate from there to other countries, which will increase unemployment. As you said, a lot of businessmen own cryptocurrency, and Kammie wants to tax the elite class more. They will find an alternative way for this, but they will never let their investors move to other countries, nor their citizens.

On the other hand, if Trump wins, it will give a lot of support to cryptocurrencies because he openly supports cryptocurrency in America. He said that if he wins, he will want the rest of Bitcoin mining in America. Furthermore, he also collects his party funds in cryptocurrency, which clearly shows Trump supporting cryptocurrency. If he wins, the Bitcoin price will definitely move because a positive sign will be shown to the miners and those who own or support it.

Nevermind who wins, US policy will not change. Bitcoin will exist as it is. Because Bitcoin just doesn't depend on the US. It's true if Trump wins, we may see a significant movement on Bitcoin, and we may see the opposite if Kam wins. Trum seems Bitcoin-friendly, and he has some plans about Bitcoin as well. That will fuel the Bitcoin price upon a Trump win. But no big change will happen even if Kam wins, because the Biden administration wasn't against Bitcoin anyway. 

Her tax policy isn't just going to affect Cryptocurrency investment in the U.S but investment itself.
There would be reduction in the rate of employment specifically cause of the corporate tax
Not to mention a likelihood of a deficit GDP
So yeah it can affect the economy even if it wouldn't play much role on Bitcoin in the long run.

Well, you might be right as well. If Trump performs no good with crypto in his past terms, most likely he will still carry out those rules and policies as well since Trump remains Trump, he will do everything for his own personal gains. And after the outcome of the coming election, everything will be revealed if he's been honest to the people or just giving us a good play.

It's normal for politicians to say everything we want to hear during campaign period. But what is not normal anymore is to make use of bitcoin and its community at his biggest advantage and leave bitcoin like a trash when the results come out on his favor. Just my personal thought.

It doesn't matter who wins as long as what they do make crypto known by many people. Let's say that I didn't know cryptocurrency and when I saw a news or article online and it mentioned cryptocurrency like bitcoin then I would know about it. What they do is very much the same as advertising crypto to the internet. What I am hoping this time is that I hope it will have a positive impact in cryptocurrency and also having a support from a person with status.

eh, the dude is a known liar so I don't trust the guy(nor is the other presidential candidate), the only reason I can think of why he started supporting Bitcoin is either he just wants votes from the crypto community or some of his big investors in the campaign want him to do it. anyway, we'll see what happens if he becomes the president.

I think Trump makes it more likely that the US will put some crazy bill in place to stack BTC and send Bitcoin into a price bubble. No matter who wins though Bitcoin is an inevitable thing to exist and can’t be crushed by the ignorance of politicians. I do think things like economy will hurt individuals from stacking.

The election of the American Parliament has now been transformed into an international discussion of Bitcoin. Why two candidates are giving Bitcoin so much importance. But if one of Donald Trump and Kamala Harris is elected, they will definitely work for Bitcoin. Donald Trump will be positive for Bitcoin and Bitcoin will move to a better position than before. On the other hand, Kamala Harris has not been selected so far so Kamala Harris will also be positive for Bitcoin and will definitely try to get Bitcoin to a better position than before.

Bitcoin will be fine, no matter who wins. There is a huge supply shock after the Halving and many BTCs are now lost every year as people no longer exist and many of them do not share their passphrase or keys with their family or friends. As we go more into the upcoming years, the price of BTC per USD will continue to grow. Mark my words. Or even bet if you want to.

What do you even mean by 'work for BTC', is the winner going to be elected 'president of BTC' or president of the United States, i see that a lot of people have to understand things better on this matter.

The topics about Trump and Kamala increases by the day and it does not look like it'll be stopping anytime soon, i think you all have done enough 'campaign' for the candidate you support,, now let's wait for the election to see what's going to happen.

I can't still have the assurance that Trump will turn bitcoin into better rather than just fine. Why? Because we can't put all our hopes with bitcoin into these politicians who are just good at the beginning but then ignore all their promises when they start to sit on their positions. I can only attest that bitcoin will do better with Trump once he's already in his position and making things possible for bitcoin. But for now, I'm still in doubt with all those impressive words for bitcoin if they are fake or not.

As this seems to be a reaction to my thread I'll answer here too ;D

The Bearish Case for Donny's Bitcoin

1) Gensler is fired and all ICO scams are finally allowed to do whatever they want. The result: A new Ponzicoin appears from nowhere and aspires to get to Luna. But as all Ponzis, eventually it will collapse, not before having fought Ethereum on #2 on Coinmarketcap. That shit rises so high that even many Bitcoiners buy it -- and lose their houses, wives, husbands and pets in that crash and Bitcoin gets down to Sub-Terra again.

2) Donny buys Bitcoin reserves! Everybody is happy and re-buys at 120.000$, confident that the price will go to Mars, along with Elon's rockets.

But someone is not happy. His name is Satoshi Nakamoto. He suddenly re-appears on Bitcointalk with a single post:


In a few hours, 1 million Bitcoins are moved from old addresses to Binance. As Bitcoiners are weaklings panicking even when 100.000 BTCs from MtGox are returned to their rightful owners, they now directly freak out. Bitcoin falls like a rock down to $10000. Or lower.

3) Donny wins and Bitcoin rises to 100k, Trumpcoiners happily buy more. But he actually does nothing of these benefits to crypto he promised. Bitcoin begins to slide lower and lower. To return to 100k, Bitcoin will take several years - until China unbans Bitcoin in 2029.

There may be more bearish cases for Bitcoin under Donny ...

To be fair, none of us can guarantee that Trump will make Bitcoin better, but there's also no guarantee that Bitcoin will be fine under Harris. As we have seen, the Biden administration is not very friendly to the crypto industry and Harris is part of the current administration, if she continues down that path or becomes harsher then that could also happen.

What we can do is choose and support the candidate that causes the least harm to the crypto industry and it will all be based on each person's judgment and have different choices. We should not put our full faith in any candidate because as we all know, politicians are very cunning.

As OP said: if we have the opportunity to be better, why choose to be fine? Nothing is certain and no matter who we vote for we are just betting, and between better and fine, why not bet on better?

Statistics is a bullshit ‘science’ that serves to ‘prove’ one thing and the opposite. I will quote DdmrDdmr's personal text:


It is not uncommon to see two politicians from opposing parties using statistics to support each other's positions. And not just different statistics, sometimes even the same one. Statistics can be used to defend any lie.

It's too early for us to say anything regarding that win, the effects or consequences of Trump's possible win in the election is just too much of an obscure matter that it's probably not a good idea to say something like that this early because we might end up being misdirected and misguided on our next step in bitcoin investing.

Bitcoin will do just better without any of them. These speculation about Donald Trump being elected and bitcoin booms is just a nightmare. As for me anyone who is voting should vote base on the right candidate for the position who can Leed effectively even though there is no true leader anymore but there should be some other things to consider but not bitcoin. We the bitcoiners has been doing fine for long, so even if they are elected and they didn't promote bitcoin, you wouldn't feel any regret of electing them. since that was not the motive of you support them. Donald Trump was once elected and he never did anything in support of bitcoin so I am not surprised even if he elected now he may still do as he did before.

You are right, we cannot put hope in politicians whose initial words sometimes don't match what they do after becoming elected officials. In Trump's case, even if he lied to us about bitcoin, at least he would be labeled a liar & receive social punishment for his lies. However, for some reason i believe in Trump after his speech at the last bitcoin conference, it seemed like a promise for the entire crypto community, especially bitcoin.

I find the op's post rather political, speculating more about what may or may not happen in case Harris wins the presidential elections than reflecting on Bitcoin. I firmly believe that casting a vote for a presidential candidate should be based on much more than how this person talks about Bitcoin. If one's views overall align with Trump's views and priorities, then it makes sense to vote for him. If not, then it is better to vote for Harris.
But let's also not forget that being enthusiastic about Bitcoin isn't natural for Trump, and it is not the view he endorsed over the years. He was a consistent Bitcoin sceptic right until the election campaign. Moreover, looking at Bitcoin, it had its major ups and downs both under Trump and under Biden.
If Trump decides to stick to his pro-Bitcoin stance and wins the elections, it can be good for Bitcoin, I admit. But I'm also not sure that Trump can be trusted to follow through in case he gets in power, and it turns out that being pro-Bitcoin is not essential for most of his electorate.
Thankfully, Bitcoin itself is relatively independent of the global economy and especially of the US political climate.

That is going to be difficult without lowering energy prices first which is not something either one of these candidates can do. But as far as Bitcoin is concerned this is a terrible news for Bitcoin because you are basically saying that bitcoin mining is going to become more centralized and I am surprised that people aren't concerned about this, specially the same people who were screaming when a lot of hashrate came from China and was somewhat centralized over there!!!

You have got a good point at what you just said above, but what if Donald Trump is just only interested in Bitcoin recently just because he needs the votes and approval from the crypto community in this his forthcoming US election? Because one question I think we should have all been asking is what impact was Trump able to make on the crypto community or Bitcoin precisely during his 4yrs as president of the United States, as that will give us a clue on what to expect if he is to emerge president the second time, as truly speaking, I never saw any reasonable impact Trump did on Bitcoin while he was president. Of which truly, you can't blame the current democratic in power right now, as government will always prefer fiat currencies where they have full control over it, to Bitcoin which happens to be anonymous.

So what have you to say about this direct tweet below from the man you claim to be a saviour to Bitcoin?

https://www.talkimg.com/images/2024/09/14/B9MFJ.jpeg

Bitcoin will be fine regardless of who wins, it’ll still do its thing. Blocks will continue to be mined on average every 10 minutes. However I think if Kamala wins we could get a short term dump. The Democrats have not been kind to crypto so what’s gonna change if she wins, possibly not much. I don’t think Trump loves Bitcoin but he has, at least said he will allow growth & not be obstructive to it. If Trump wins we provably pump harder sooner than if Kamala wins. Mid to long term though, Bitcoin doesn’t care.

Mining in overly concentrated in China and that’s why people say bitcoin mining is centralized. If some of those miners move to the US there will be a more decentralized mining network.

You are contradicting yourself here and you don’t even seem to realize it.

Trump can indeed lower the electricity prices. Drill baby drill.

FYI China banned bitcoin mining a couple of years ago and ever since then the hashrate coming from China dropped significantly. And today US has pretty much replaced China in sense of how centralized mining is.

The biggest difference however is that China never forced miners to censor transactions, US is! The American miners are not allowed to mine certain transactions, based on arbitrary censorship orders the US government gives them.

Good news is I wasn’t the one who were saying it.

It is still a good thing if more mining happens in the US as it will create more jobs for the US citizens. The voters should take that into account as it is stupid to drive away potential job opportunities to some other country.

My honest view is that even if the majority if the hashrate happens to be in the US it won’t harm bitcoin’s decentralization.

I must have forgotten the Chinese mining ban though, thanks for that one.

I like how people think that if the super-rich pay their taxes to the IRS normally (without using loopholes) then they will get tired of this place and ditch America for Monaco or St Kitts and Nevis and renounce their citizenship.

Sure, if they don't want to go to NFL stadiums or go to Vegas or Miami or stay in those lovely suites and high-end restaurants and don't want to use the NYSE and most importantly the US financial system anymore, then they can go out and live abroad permanently.

Because once you're out, there is no coming back (https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/us-visas/visa-information-resources/waivers.html).


And, you know, you can just ask people like Roger Ver how that's going for them.

Truth is, you can pay your taxes* and still have billions of dollars left in net profit. It is basically something that cannot even be felt by the rich.

*Income tax I mean, not the capital gains tax when you sell your crypto. I think that's stupid.

PS. I'd be surprised if the majority of crypto industry workers were not remote. I mean, Binance doesn't even have an office.

Ditching the US passport itself isn’t a crime. You are twisting the facts here. Roger’s crime was tax evasion which is a serious crime in the US and pretty much anywhere else. Had Rodger paid his taxes fully and then renounced his US citizenship, he wouldn’t have been in any trouble now.

You are talking as if Rodger was the first dude who abandoned his US passport. Lots of people do that every year and under Kabamala the number will go nowhere but upwards.

Let’s hear what CNBC has to say about it:

https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2024/03/19/heres-why-some-american-expats-want-to-renounce-us-citizenship.html

It will hurt decentralization. The only way it won't is if the percentage of hashrate in US doesn't go above 5% (roughly the same as US population/world population).

But that is not the biggest problem. The biggest problem is that if "majority" of hashrate were inside US, it would significantly damage one of the main Bitcoin Principles called censorship resistance since as I said the US laws enforces censorship on miners.

His supporters in the crypto industry believe that he has changed his former negative perspective about Bitcoin. They now see him as a Bitcoin president who will take Bitcoin to the moon. People fail to understand that "no matter how the leopard washes, it cannot remove its spots ". Trump cannot be trusted. He has shown that so many times. Trump is wooing the crypto community to get not just votes but financial donations.

In the recent debate with Kamala Harris, the crypto president didn't utter a word about cryptocurrencies. I am beginning to suspect that he would abandon the sector immediately after he becomes president.

You seem to be more interested in job creation in the US than the decentralization status of Bitcoin. Most of us are not from the US, so we care more about the censorship of Bitcoin than job creation in the US.

All I would say is don't trust politicians, they might say this today and tomorrow behave like they have amnesia and back track on their words.

And the more I think about which candidate will help crypto grow the more it just gets confusing, I know Trump loves his conferences and our crypto markets being highly speculative, I see a situation of prices being volatile might not excite alot of people out there ...but to avoif putting fear in ourselves lets see what happens.

If bitcoin is going to get censored and destroyed like that, maybe, it never deserved to exist in the first place.

If that’s a real threat, we are already facing it.

The data I read says more than 30% of the total hash rate is in the US which is the biggest piece already. I think there is room for another 10% at least.

Let’s say the worst has happened the US gov started to censor lots of transactions, the miners will go to some other country and abandon their businesses in the US. If all govs fight btc like that, see my first sentence.

I don't feel confident in future decisions, because I believe Trump can also change for certain interests. Now that Trump is looking for supporters, he will work in various ways to get a lot of votes. Especially by bringing the crypto issue that has been promised more amicably. But remember that political promises are sometimes not kept. In fact, many leaders have annulled the sentence that had been said during the election campaign.

As far as I know it will not be more than 20%. Again the percentage that is seen may also decrease after a year. Statistics can give an idea but we have to believe it though always it will not be true. The views of the two leaders are different at the moment, when they take over the responsibility of the country, there will be no confusion between them. Though the two leaders have wide differences in their thinking, I don't believe anyone would do anything with a different view of crypto. Bitcoin will run it's own pace. There may be temporary or long-term Bitcoin bearishness due to negative results, but no one can control Bitcoin. So I think whoever comes from any political party shouldn't expect something different from Bitcoin.

You people are the ones making this a big deal, you are one of the reasons why Bitcoin react to all these nonsense, it doesn't have to be like this but you people are making a big deal out of it.

Before Kamala and Trump ever think of going to the presidential sit Bitcoin have survived the Biden administration, and also Trump was the president in 2019 Bitcoin still did what it wanted, now let's go back to 2009, that was Barack Obama and George Bush's days, Bitcoin survived, all these unnecessary fear and panic is not important.

If kamala wins Bitcoin will make a new ATH if it has to, the same as Trump, the only plus here is that Trump wants the best for Crypto holders and those big BTC miners in Texas will breathe freely at last, with no stupid tax on them.

I think more than 20% of Americans have bought bitcoin, I believe this because the economy in America is very good. Entrepreneurs or billionaires in America must have had cryptocurrencies such as Bitcoin, besides Gold they also believe Bitcoin as a very promising investment in the long term. However, if business people related to cryptocurrencies are taxed, it will affect people in America to move from the country or they will sell all their assets related to cryptocurrencies.

Because of this I guess it is not really good for bitcoin, having 20% ​​can create an easy trap by their direct pressure, as long as the government Usa announces the disadvantage, bitcoin will definitely still react the way they want. Is that really good for bitcoin? Meaning without getting your hopes up, it's become a reality and the power of bitcoin. I'm a little skeptical that it will happen if Trump is re-elected.

I can't really remember if Biden administration made any promises about Bitcoin and crypto. They clearly used black community and George police brutality to gain favour of people together with some rigging to take out Trump. What Trump is doing and campaigning right now is just based on what he see the current government is avoiding and that's what he is trying to give back to people which is more political than something he would do when in office.

I want you to know that it's very simple for any politician to make promise when they are not in office and when they resume office and why thag happen is because the presidency is not a one man person, presidency is a table of kings were men sit at the table to make decisions that favour them and there business. There are some group of people that are more powerful than Kamala, Biden and Trump right now in US but prefer to use these guys than for them to seek for the support to run the office.

As a senior my advice is you should not make such posts, it will directly impact your post quality and there a high chance that the moderator is going to delete your post, you should acknowledge that according to the rules low-quality topics and posts are not allowed in the Bitcoin section. Such posts are marked as spamming and you should avoid that, Best of luck with your Bitcoin journey.




I'm with you on that, our perspective is on the same page, such ordinary topics should not be discussed as they hold zero value in long-term perspective.

I never said it was a crime but that it's an extremely dumb thing to do, and Roger Ver was caught up in some obscure tax rules related to his companies after he thought he had already paid off his taxes. So not actively avoiding paying tax unlike the guy on the subject of this topic.

So what's your point exactly? Ver was avoiding his taxes and got caught. He also ditched his US passport. He didn't get punished for ditching his US passport. He was punished because he was avoiding his taxes.

One can pay his taxes in full and still renounce his US citizenship and nothing will happen to him.

And your point was?

So in the US electricity is generated still with ... oil like in 1910 or so? ;)

Even if you refer to natural gas ... natural gas for peaking, which is where most gas is used, is one of the most expensive technologies to generate electricity. Combined cycle (orange line) is cheaper but still more expensive than renewables, although cheaper than nuclear. Even coal is now moving into the "expensive" category:

https://talkimg.com/images/2024/09/14/Bi1iI.png

Source: Lazard (https://web.archive.org/web/20240828224744/https://www.lazard.com/media/xemfey0k/lazards-lcoeplus-june-2024-_vf.pdf), 2024. - Graph: RCraig09 @ Wikimedia (CC-BY-SA) (https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:20201019_Levelized_Cost_of_Energy_(LCOE,_Lazard)_-_renewable_energy.svg)

Bitcoin mining is one of the most automated industries that exist. The number of IT professionals benefitting from it should be quite marginal ...