Bitcoin Forum

Being inspired by a discussion that erupted after I posted asking "What's even the point of licenses anymore? (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5536469.msg65213821#msg65213821)"

I think it's a good opportunity to make more of a direct question to try and find out which GOOD casinos actually have been operating under no licensing scheme at all. Of course there are hundreds if not thousands of casinos that run online without a real license, or pretending to have one that is actually fake, only to scam people. But I'm making this thread to ask about casinos that are not known to be out there with the intention of scamming everybody.

Off the top of my head I could name a few already.

Just-dice.com, Bitvest.io, bustadice.com, bustabit.com, swcpoker.club

Many of these sites are very old and have been running for years without stop. Generally they have an ok reputation. But what they have in common is that none of these sites runs under a gambling license. Do you know more such sites?

I didn’t know those casinos you mentioned had no licenses. I don’t even get why they don’t have it; it will add to their outlook of the casino and show that they are doing the correct operations and protocols when operating a casino.

This made it look like they were unreputable because they had no license. To me, this matters.

To me I don't think naming is doing good to people over here rather giving them indirect visibilities as people could on their own visit those sites. So, it would be better the discussion remain neutral without naming any of them as this is direct marketing to those sites in my opinion, but however if you think it's important to name them there is no issues it's good then.

TBH with License or No Licese.

Do the Curacao, the one who are created the License have some history to taken some action to the casino are using their license? I mean in vegas we have Gambling Board, these organization are really work (helping not just the casino but user it self).

However, I never see Curacao taken action to some casino or help the user.

All the casino that you mention offers an original games on their own and also operating for a long time. They are considered as an OG casino that’s why they have no problem operating without license since player trusted them for a long time since the era of online casino has no license.


Betbolt.com is the new casino that I recently view without a license but I think they are already processing it.

You can add to the list l0tt0.com. It has a very active owner @dewez which you can see on their ANN thread https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5457016.0. It has a very solid original lotto based games that is completely transparent.

I think there’s still a lot of active casino that doesn’t have license on the gambling board section of the forum. It just being overwhelm by casino with license since it’s the common preference of gamblers.

I asked that question as far as what license do you have to the betbolt rep and no response so far. Another user also claimed they went to the site and couldn't find license info so there's another you can add to the list.

shit i need to read before replying.

There's a fundamental misunderstanding here. Operating without a license hasn't been an issue for these casinos or their users. They've been running for so many years without being shut down or being accused of being an overall scam. So this is proof that running a gambling platform without a license is possible and doesn't mean they're scam operations.

In fact, many of the above casinos have been treating their investors and gamblers even better than some of the "licensed" ones that keep getting scam accusations here.
So don't worry, naming these casinos as non-licensed doesn't mean much. People already know them and many play there everyday without major issues.

It’s proven that long running operations without any major issue is more accurate basis for casino reputation instead of license since there’s a lot of licensed casino that blatantly scamming their user by holding withdrawals.

There’s 1xbit and sister company as proof that licensed is not a solid basis for the reputation of the casino.

It’s always the length of their smooth operation and consistent communication with their players.

Not until the ops outlined those casinos, did I never know that they were not operating with licenses, anyways also I don't see anything wrong with ops posting them either, because ops at least shared useful information for us here since those casinos are well-known casinos and can easily be a good choice for forum members looking for KYC free casinos if there are.

We have a lot of decentralized casinos that do not operate under any license and at that facing the problem of liquidity but I know a few of those casinos on this list and can provide liquidity if and when needed so it is a good one from the ops and looking forward to reading others selections.

I just checked Bitvest.io and I think I like this thing I saw about being a verified by Crypto Gambling Foundation. Read on to learn about Verified Operators.
I think this is almost closed to having a license because of the high standards they set for those who which to be verified by them.

So it becomes acceptable still. Been playing on Bitvest and Just Dice years ago but I have no idea they have no license but this foundation I guess is just as making people comfortable in sending their money to them. After all I have not heard some bold scam they did in the past.

Most new casinos today are getting their license fro Curacao, its cheaper they say and easy to get as well. Doesn't ask them to have high standard but it works.

But when they are opting for a license, then there will be KYC implementation, so there are still user,s most likely high rollers, who don't prefer exposing their identity, which could be a reason they operate under no license but still prove they can be the best by building their reputation itself.

We used to have many of them in the past unfortunately some of them decided to shutdown their operation due to high competition in the market.

To me I didn't even take record about those casinos that they aren't a licensed one and of course op is right because these casinos hardly have scam accusations and never came across much of their post over here about them scamming anyone. But one thing for sure I was only cared about was not to mention and promote them but since op said there is nothing wrong with then it's fine.

Bitvest is the older casino that I know because I play Plinko other casino mention above I do know them but I don't have experience to gamble on that sites except Bitvest and Bustadice.

I thought Bitvest just got licensed last 2 years ago? That was the time when most people complained about public trust. Without a license, we could not file a dispute against this casino.

Even they don't have licensed they are still alive and kicking. The reason I believe people trust Bitvest is that they still have a successful running campaign here on the forum, and many high-ranking members have already proven that they are legitimate.
I don't know to other sites mention above. Only Bitvest was trustworthy.

I've heard good things about bch.games though I've never personally tried it as I didn't find anything I wanted that wasn't in casinos I'm already playing at.

I read in an interview they accept cryptocurrencies other than BCH like BTC but it's worth noting not natively as it's powered by sideshift integration—no mandatory KYC instant exchange.

Has anybody here played in said casino?

but for some people it means more to them to play at a licensed casino, especially if the casino is new, having a license is like giving them a sense of security in playing on the site. and also, the casinos you mentioned have been operating for quite a long time and they have built their reputation, so users already trust them even when they don't have a license to back up their operations, because they are already professional in handling users. but it may be different for new casinos, they may try to get a license first to convince players that they are a legitimate and trustworthy platform.

I don't know of any other casinos that operate without a license, but to be honest I hardly ever worry about licenses, because when casinos withhold funds from people, I've never seen the license providers intervening or even punishing casinos that steal money from people. So having or not having a license doesn't make much difference when it comes to protecting customers' rights.

These ones that you mentioned are just a discovery for me because I didn't know that bivest and Just-dice have been operating without license, those other two are strange to me.

For me though, I am not a fan of going from one casino to another, so I honestly have not played on a lot of casinos to be able to tell which runs on a genuine license and which runs without a license.

I about Bitvest for sure, also know about justdice, bustabit and bustadice but ive never played on any of this casinos, I do have an account on Bitvest but have never really thought of playing there even though I know it's one of the longest running and trusted casino here on this forum, I am very OK with casinos like Stake.com, bc.game, whale.io and two or three others.

I will be reading comments from other users to learn more about casinos operating without a licence and are trusted..
And let me even ask, if freebitco.in operating under any license?

Only scam casinos will operate without license. Its either they are involved in illegal activities but there are consequences that may come from the regional government of where the casino is located or the jurisdiction.

Honestly, i never knew Bitvest operates without license i will do my own findings now.

However, most casinos that do not have a license, their games are mostly original, maybe for casinos this kind of game does not need a license.

Unlike casinos that have many games and one of them is from another provider.
Such as from multiple slot providers
Sportsbook provider.
I think if the casino wants to add these games then they need a license.

Why do you make such conclusions don't you know that we have decentralized casinos also which give gamblers 100% privacy using cryptocurrency like Bitcoin as payments, you should know better than just calling all no-license casinos scams or operating on scams illegal activities, I think that you need to read better to widen your knowledge about on the various classes of casinos that we have around.

I never knew that these casinos had no license, and that casinos could actually operate that way, it is strange to me, but I think that even though these casinos have not scammed anyone yet, and are still maintaining a good reputation in the casino industry that they can even be mentioned, it is affecting their business in some way, even  though they may not mind.
There are customers who should play on their casino, but never will because they have no license, and these customers will never trust a casino without one. Sometimes this difficulty in trusting is because of a personal bad experience, or a story from another person.

You see, just like you said, if you weren't told they had no license, you wouldn't even notice that by yourself. That's exactly how they gain popularity and no one gives a heck what's going on at all.
But again, the above casinos are doing very well and I haven't heard any major rug pull, although there's a little I know overall about them.
were? Most of those casinos are still running?
Of course it matters to everyone; once I realize that there's no sort of authority above you, then that's it. Plus, they're getting targeted by the authorities, and in a blink of an eye, their websites can get seized and that's on you the gambler!

To an extend, there had been existing a no license casinos which had maintain good reputation even more convinced to most licensed casinos and why they may not have been acquired licensed could be cases of governments regulations which even the governments that's to regulate the casinos under license issued could be biased with the players which if the regulatory terms of the casinos is adhered may be inconvenient to the players regarded that the governments could be so selfish that they don't care about the people while the casino may by being transparent with players.
The essesne of license casinos is justro convince the players that the governments is aware of the casinos they plays on which doesn't automatically make it reliable.

If not until nowadays that authorities have put more regulations and laws against gambling platforms, in the past any casino could just operate without any interference from the authorities as long as there were no criminal charges against them, and even with criminal charges, it is hard to even convicted for those crimes, so it was hard to handle their operations, that is why government begins a climb down on casinos now especially the unlicensed ones, in some cases we have successful none license casinos but we shouldn't rely on them so much since the site can be taken down by the authority at any time.

This is an honest, sad truth about the Curacao master license holder that provides a gambling license to online casinos, and this is also why some gamblers see a casino with a Curacao license as a no-go platform. An example is the casino that starts with 1x, which has scammed a lot of people and is still operating like nothing happened.
Having said that, license or not. I believe the casino that will scam its users will still scam its users, and it is better to always do self-research.

You made some points here, there are many gambling platforms operating without license and i do emphasize on the fact that having a license doesn't call a gambling platform a reputable type, we may have to go far beyond all these in knowing what they have and who are the ones under their operations before drawing for a conclusion, also, when its about gambling, we can see from the examples you have set that its not only about being licensed, but the consistencies in gambling over time is also important in choosing in-between.

It's cool that you did a bit of research into this and were able to pull out these recognizable company names, as you kind of expect this minimal level of effort from a name that has been around for a while now. Let's face it though, the jurisdictions that give out these licenses are only interested in the money and while they might make you 1% safer because they are prepared to do some minimal actions to help you if there is a problem, you're likely not going to get your money back if there is any kind of major dispute. The fact that a casino can do jurisdiction shopping means, even if they get kicked out of one offshore licensing location, they can simply go to the next one and pay an upfront fee to start it all over again.

Just-dice is one of the best reputed websites in gambling not just in crypto but worldwide.
I'd say you must be quite new to the scene to make these assumptions because it's really quite naive to believe that a license means much. Most of the online casinos operate completely offshore from the countries where they have established entities. Even if someone takes them to court there, it's not gonna make much sense.

These licenses are just so they can pay partners legally. Nothing more or less than that. They just want to complete some transactions, pay some bills, work with some regular companies that require this info etc. But other than that sites like just-dice have kept their reputation without egregious marketing or tricks from simply offering a good service. Similar to bustabit/bustadice etc. These sites have a very good reputation and have rarely to never received accusations of unfairness.

If these casinos you mentioned don’t have a license, some gamblers would still play there, especially if the casino is old and has a good reputation.

But these days, the game has changed. A good reputation isn’t enough, you also need a proper license. The problem is, most casinos get their licenses from Curaçao, which I’ve read has some negative reviews. Apparently, this license provider doesn’t offer the best user security, so for some casinos, it’s just for show rather than real protection.

Maybe it's because they develop their own games? Because, the popular game providers are also regulated, so they ensure that any game they offer to a casino is only provided once the casino gets licensed.

The casinos mentioned in the OP have been around for years, and they’re still existing, but maybe only a few people are still playing there, and they’re not expanding into jurisdictions that have strict gambling regulations.

What I’m trying to say is, as long as the casino isn’t very popular, regulators might not pay much attention to them. But ultimately, it’s up to us whether we choose to play there. With unlicensed casinos, we’re risking playing without player protection.

Are you sure with what you say? Can a license guarantee that casino will not be a scam later? I think you need to do more researches..
Let me tell you that most early reputable crypto casinos were not licensed years ago, will you call them scam as well?

---

@OP if I remember it correctly, coinroyale has no license too.
This is one of the oldest crypto casino that is still existing till now, I havent checked them recently but as long as I remember, they dont have any license.

I did a quick search, and it seems the licensing process has been challenged multiple times in the past. Some people claim the licensing has no legal basis while the related parties are corrupt. Some legal battles also claim that the government actively denies requests to ask for more details related to their licensing process[1]. CMIIW.

Btw, it seems like the Curacao license will change in the near future[2]. I don't know enough to comment about this but it seems like we'll easily find the responsible individuals under the new licensing rules (assuming the process is done correctly). But yeah, if a casino has enough reputation that they're reliable, they don't need it in the first place.

[1] https://next.io/news/regulation/curacao-governor-pm-named-igaming-licensing-lawsuit/
[2] https://www.uniwide.com/articles/deoffshorisation-in-action-the-situation-with-curacao-online-casino-licences/

They were the ones that immediately popped on my head when asked which operate under no license so I did a bit of looking up. Turns out they were now under FBC BV so I thought they already had a license of sorts. Then looked up the company and it turns out they were facing possible penalties for operating WITHOUT any license still, so yeah no, they don't have a license and from what I read, they're doing nothing to actually appeal this and would probably continue being licenseless.

Curacao changed their laws a few months ago. Things have really changed. Both BC.games and FJ lost court cases there so they pulled their licenses and moved elsewhere.

Count dgbet.fun in.

Yeah the sites you mentioned have "ok" reputation, but CMIIW, I haven't see any big influencer promote their sites or become a partner of sports. Unlike licensed casinos, they even launch an event or become a brand ambassador of the teams.

As long as the no license casinos are profitable and not get threaten by governments, they're already successful. Because if they turn to be licensed casinos, they might lose their loyal customers.

I did not have an idea that those names have no licenses but let's face it, we don't really care about these things back then. An online casino accepting cryptocurrencies is the more important of all, especially during the times when selling it is a hard task. Heck, even trading sites made a dice game for the crypto traders to risk their cryptocurrencies in a different way.

I won't really mind about the names not having a license, especially for Bitvest. That name has been running for a long time, and its reputation is already rooted in the gambling industry, especially here in the forum.

I didn't know this, so to open a casino it's not enough to make a company that pays taxes like other companies but you have to ask for licenses? Why this thing what licenses do you need. Doesn't the baker ask for the license?
Sorry, i am not in the industry and i am asking to understand.

The only casino I know of that is not licensed is freebitcoin, but their reputation is bad at the moment, so players should probably be wary of any potential bad things happening to them.


I just found out that some of the casinos you mentioned are not licensed and of those I have only ever played at just-dice.com, and crypto lovers who have been involved in crypto for a long time must have played at just-dice because this is one of the old casinos and it's quite amazing that they have survived for long time.

Often unlicensed casinos have limited games, so players will eventually go to licensed casinos.

I was actually thinking the same thing as you also,I had Bitvest on my mind because have been seeing it as a reputable casino that has every necessary regulative policies to be registered and licensed.
Despite it,some users have commented that it has a solid reputation influence and wide range of users too.It could still have lapses,but they're proposed to be different from the others.

I don't know if licensing has no legal basis, but based on what I read years ago about the Curacao master license holder, they seem to have rules and regulations every casino must follow, which protect the interests of the casino and its users. Suddenly, everything changes; that casino that operates with their license has the freedom to do as they please, and I believe this could be what triggers the belief of people that licensing has no legal basis.

I also believe things will change in the future.
We gamblers  have different beliefs, some gamblers don't like casinos that's not licensed while the casino's genuine services is the main focus of some gamblers

Betpanda is a well known casino and they do not have a gambling license as far as I'm aware. Like many casinos that are unlicensed they choose to incorporate in Costa Rica where they do not have strict regulations.

There is not much difference between licensed and unlicensed these days. Having a license from some exotic location isn’t going to make a casino any more likely to be held accountable.

How did you know that they are not running on a license? I will like to know how you get this information, and also I won't be surprised even if they have no license because who knows them? Yes they have been running for some time already, the attention isn't just there yet.

It is only online casinos that aren't popular manages to stay hidden with no license, no one will come after them, so all they can do is stay under the radar, and operate quietly.

Truth be told, they are only shooting themselves in the foot, because they won't be able to grow bigger without license, they choose to operate quietly and the consequence of doing so is lack of attraction, many people won't know the casinos.

Bustabit and Bustadice are licensed casinos, they both hold Costa Rica licenses, bitvest and 777casino are both unlicensed but they have been advertising here since 2014.
There aren't many unlicensed crypto casinos because almost all of them advertise on Bitcointalk or at least have an ANN thread here and as far as I'm aware, some casinos got red trust or neutral trust on their account for not having a license.
Btw the only safe and trustworthy crypto casino that I know is l0tt0. They don't have a license but the owner is a very good guy.

In the end this is what counts, that they are casinos that are trustworthy, that do not cheat and above all that do not scam people, I imagine that things are like this because they want to maintain that particularity, those unlicensed casinos in the near future for me will be very attractive to gamblers because they offer different things, and as you say, if it is a friend of yours or is a trustworthy person then that gives rise to it being trustworthy in the end.

https://medium.com/p/0d37f7d5ee72

SWC Poker — A Closer Look at the Bitcoin Poker Room That Doesn’t Add Up