Bitcoin Forum

I received a beta TREZOR from SatoshiLabs. I'll be ensuring that the HD wallets support in bitcoinj is compatible with it, as a first step to allowing any bitcoinj based wallet app to use the device.

The device works perfectly and was very easy to set up. It is extremely light and comes with a way to attach it to a keyring, though I think for now I'll keep it at home. As part of setting up the device, it generates a new random seed and you write down the 12 words into a booklet which comes with the device: that's your paper wallet. To make a payment you use the web app, and it asks you to confirm first the destination and then the amount+fee (so you press twice). The instructions are clear and simple at all times, and the performance is excellent - there are no long waits or other interruptions.

The web software still has a couple of minor bugs, but nothing that interferes with usage.

Version 1 of the system does  not yet support BIP 70, so when you see a confirmation, it's for the raw Bitcoin address. Future releases are planned to support BIP 70 so you will see a more useful and harder to tamper with confirmation message that includes the name of who you are paying.

I was one of the first supporters of the TREZOR project and I'm happy to report that together stick, slush, Alina and the others at SatoshiLabs have actually exceeded my expectations :) I'm very much looking forward to the device shipping.

Looks very nice and glad to hear you're pleased with it. Look forward to ours arriving as well.

Ooh. Pretty! Does it come with a rubber case?

Very sweet! congrats

Nice to finally see a hardware wallet!
Does anyone know when it will be released to public and how much it will cost?

They were accepting preorders before for 1 BTC (I think back when 1 BTC = $100?)

Nice to see it in the flesh and thanks for the review Mike.

Just to tick all the boxes here, can you confirm that you have no other vested interests in TREZOR (shares in company, consultant agreements, endorsement incentives etc) that might bias your review? (Excepting of course being enthusiastic about the tech. generally.)

what if the battery died?

There is no battery. It's USB powered.

Just quoting this so Mike see it...

Kinda fishy you got one so early on, I think the core development team should really have been the first to handle it so they can add support and confirm that is follows the BIP 32 as spec'd by them. Would have been a nice independent review as well.

Yes, Trezor supports bip32 "as they spec'd", it passes all test vectors and it has been tested also with other bip32-compatible software (Bits of proof server) that it generates same bip32 trees. No need to ask bitcoin core devs...

Nice. Did you open the case already to
see what's inside? ;)

Shouldn't this announcement have been made yesterday?  ;D

man, that device looks beautiful...  i could imagine that such a device could gain popular traction not only because it´s bitcoin but because it is stylish... 8)

The display looks much better than I first imagined it to look like!. Good work Slush & Co.

yep... proof...  :D

wow this last photo, it looks amazing, really nice

WOW, that looks really nice - great job everyone  ;D

I would have ordered one if it was affordable. But a price of $480 means almost 10% of my BTC holdings. I would wait for some more time till the price is reduced. Or may be I will be able to obtain an used device in the near future.

Is it possible to buy Trezors now?

Right now, the pre-orders are closed. So you'll have to wait. Or there is a risky option to buy it from the third party vendors. I'll strongly advice against any such move.

There are no third party vendors (as of now). If you have found any then you had found a scam.

I don't have any financial relationship or otherwise with SatoshiLabs, other than the pre-order I made, which is now delivered. It's just a project I think is important.

One thing I hope to see in future is SL reselling TREZORs through exchanges, that are pre-configured with certificates that can take part in BIP70 as well for a kind of "reverse" payment protocol. Because that means, you can move money directly from the exchange into your TREZOR with no MITM being possible even in the inbound direction. Plus exchanges can provide a value-add service, and SL gets advertising. It seems like it could be a win-win-win situation.

This is very cool and all, but how could this be extended to be used without a PC, e.g. paying a bill in a restaurant?

By creating a POS that can communicate with TREZOR. (This does not necessarily have to be special hardware, most of cash registers are computers anyway, so software and USB cable will do).

cool, finally we see it happen. looks nice too!

The core devs are a little full of themselves - aren't they?  I think they need to step back from their importance stool.  Arrogance is bad for bitcoin.

Can these devices be flashed with new firmware?
Say, to support Litecoin or another coin instead?

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-KGFOWugeSlc/UzvCXEn1l7I/AAAAAAAAGJU/EKvFI4k_qig/w1664-h1232-no/IMG_20140401_195446.jpg

It looks amazing!
Would love to get hold of one.

Shouldn't this also be a way to check for backdoors and/or whether the device has been tampered with? Wouldn't any change to the core part of the firmware result in getting different answers with the test vectors?

Agree, would love to get one if price is right, i mean up to 25$

nice to see one in the real world.

Awesome work, guys!

Dont forget this is the same folks that brought us pooled mining, stratum and coinmap. 

Love this innovation, glad I supported the project, looking forward to getting mine! :)

Yes, it is flashable. But Litecoin support is there already. Just ask your favourite Litecoin dev to add Trezor support to their client :-).

don't worry guys slush is working very hard to beat BFL's BitSafe

Excellent. Guess now to wait for it to hit the market.

hey buddy you still owe me btc...

I was wondering if this project was still in the works.  End user security is, IMO, the biggest problem that needs to be tackled right now.  This is a necessary step if bitcoin is to go mainstream.

This is great news! And it looks fantastic, I look forward to seeing/reading more.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-KGFOWugeSlc/UzvCXEn1l7I/AAAAAAAAGJU/EKvFI4k_qig/w1664-h1232-no/IMG_20140401_195446.jpg

Why is the confirm button on the right? General convention is that yes/confirm buttons are on the left

see https://www.google.cz/search?tbm=isch&q=yes%20no%20dialog&hl=cs#hl=cs&q=yes+no+dialog&tbm=isch

(reposting from reddit)

We always put "positive" actions (next, confirm, ok) on the right and "negative" on the left (previous, abort, cancel) button.
It makes sense when you realize that in order to confirm transaction you have to press "next" several times (for each output) and then "confirm". I guess you agree that putting Next on the left and Back on the right is not a good idea.

show us some more shots how it works, how it looks when accessing through USB by PC etc. managment panel etc.

A video would be pretty great.  I've heard of TREZOR but really have no idea how it's supposed to work. 

Very cool, glad to see one in the 'wild'. Cant wait for them to open up ordering.

Oh... so it is impossible for new users to obtain Trezors.  >:(

So the software is being installed from the device?

Trezor works as HID (mouse, keyboard) and does not need any system drivers. Device does not carry any desktop software (it would be security hole otherwise), but you can connect it with other software. Multibit and Armory teams are actively working on Trezor support. And in the meantime there's mytrezor.com, our webwallet talking to Trezor over browser plugin.

Glad to see these finally are a go and yes, they look fantastic. Just curious as to when my pre-order (8-9-13) will arrive? Should also check your emails from time to time. ;)

I hope you don't mind my bumping this question, but I really want to know about how a back door or otherwise tampered electronic device could get around the test vectors? Or am I misunderstanding something fundamentally?

The risk with a backdoored TREZOR is not that it generates public/private keys incorrectly (which is what the BIP32 test vectors test). It's that it can leak the private keys/seed via some side channel, or can be told to sign transactions bypassing the usual user confirmation logic.

For leaking private keys via side channels, there are virtually none available, except the ECDSA k value. Deterministic ECDSA is the solution to this. A backdoor that allows the computer to tell the device to empty itself out cannot really be defended against easily, because it's hard to know what software the device is truly running, but the reputation of the creators is sufficient to give good assurance for genuine/unmodified TREZORs. In future software remote attestation techniques might be interesting.

Yes it looks lovely! :) after all that delays it should looks and works great :)

I hope you will enjoy using Trezor!

Regards!

Well, one of my fears (perhaps unfounded) is that a tampered device will ignore my randomly generated input seed, and instead use some kind of weak method for generating the master private key. If all of the algorithms are published however, I should be able to test whether the device is using the input seed as intended right? (i.e., compare the master public key generated on my laptop using the same algorithm as the public key generated by the trezor, where both used the same input seed).

Just to clarify, when I say "seed" what I really mean is the random data (dice rolls or whatever) that are used as a source of entropy.

That is a valid concern. What TREZOR does is that it shows its internal entropy on display (if asked to) before requesting an external one. Once provided, these two entropies are mixed (using hash) and you can verify that external was used and not omitted.

Are there theme'able devices in the roadmap? I'd kill for a red and white Hello Kitty one =^).

Soon trezor should think about "trezor watch" - that could be a great idea :P

that's sweet  ;D if there's enough hello kitty lovers we could make it possible...

Any more information on this?

Awesome development—truly!

Keep up the amazing work.  :)

That is cool I wanted a trezor but then they sold out of course they open sourced it for people to get later
But I will wait for a batch 2  ;D


O_O I would buy a batch of Gundam Themed ones :)

Thanks. I agree TREZOR, and other user-friendly hardware wallets, are for me the most pressing bottleneck for bitcoin adoption.

Good work all around guys!

Yes well those devices helps people of Bitcoin a lot. This is totally true!

Trezor is very good project and device (I hope - time will compare:P) and I believe it is a future of Bitcoin too!

Does it have the "First Edition" engraving on the back!? It must! I hope.

You sure are going to find lovers for other stuff, e.g. Star Trek, Pokemon, MC Escher and whatnot.

I could not find the cost of it mentioned anywhere on bitcointrezor.com. Can someone please point out what I am missing ?

I'm pretty sure they're sold out. I REALLY would like to know if they'll have the "First Edition" engraved on the back as older pictures show.

I understand they're sold out. But is there any price tag ?

They still need to fulfill early 'classic' orders, before general release. Many weeks away by all accounts.

The price tag was 1BTC for a plastic one and 3BTC for a metal one. This always have been the price and they don't change them, never. Doesn't matter how much 1BTC is worth. And pre-orders are currently closed.

Thank you so much for the info.

Yes https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QX3gUcv1S9w#t=1m46s

I am looking forward to the commercial release : I will relay the announcement on my blog and in my speaking engagements.

 Trezor is a good omen for it's growing popularity.
According to price drop I am wondering when they will change the price..

Looks very cool. Looking forward to mine own TREZOR.  :)

crosspost from other thread:

Great gadget. Waiting for a below 200$ price tag.

Looks good. What happens in d evemt of a hardware failure, how do u get btc/key out?

I believe you have a seed (32 random words or something) that you can write down on paper or paperwallet print and you'll be able to recover it.

Remember, bitcoin is a deflationary currency, meaning the things you buy can decrease in price.  They should consider keeping the price in line with value over time.

Yes price is just too much for me but it is so cute!

:)
And I believe it does work very fine!

I want my device so badly, looking at all the pictures and vids :P

Did you ordered it already or you just wish to buy one, like I do :-)

pre ordered it :D

This does make sence. I have ordered a few days after the trezor project was launched but they kept on postponing, this announcement seems even more fishy. The only reason people would think this is not a total scam is that slush and stick, the two creators of trezor are respectable bitcoin members...

where can I order one?

You can try official trezor web www.bitcointrezor.com

Only thing is that doing this would mean that the PoS can see the contents of your wallet, if I understand correctly.

Are they shipping these yet? or its still "pre order" ?

No it doesnt.

The POS can create tx and just require your Trezor to sign.

BIP38 also helps privacy too.

I didn't say anything about the private keys, but the PoS can't create a transaction and send it to the TREZOR without having the UTXO info available. (it is entirely possible that there's a way to pay at a PoS without revealing the wallet contents that I haven't thought of.)

In order for POS to create TX it would need to know addresses and their balances which basically is scanning.

This is being addressed with BIP70, payment protocol, and will be implemented in future TREZOR firmware releases.

It looks pretty great!!!

Gotta admit, it looks sleek.

It looks great in ALU case ... for just 3BTC it can be ordered for you :D

Looking pretty sweet! I'm thinking about getting one myself. 

Any News?

Pre-orders are NOT COOL.

You get proud to be Czech once in your life and this is the day

I don't think that they can be ordered right now. The online pre-orders have been closed and everyone who had did that got their devices. Don't know when they will resume selling the device.

It looks more like the Picodore 64 :)
http://www.picobay.com/picodore64/picodore64-1.jpg

(disclaimer -this is the first I have heard about this project)

I dont know about that... it doesnt have to be backdoored for those situations to arise. hanlons razor n all that.

what about stuff like diff power analysis and van eck [radiation]? how susceptible is the device to interference over the usb? or a radio transmitter or just a mobile phone.   anyway if the trezor cannot guard against a malicious PC that it is connected too, whats the point? You wouldnt be connecting it to a POS/PDQ in a hurry... so it is just another thing to go wrong - how many key pairs does it create?  I lost bitcoins before when the send change to new/random address 'bug' was squashed and the change address wasnt in my backup keypairs. (damn you satoshi dice :) and me for not reading the release notes)

Another avenue is via some basic firmware bug that allows a different amount to be displayed rather than what it is actually asked to be signed... I trust the creators intentions, but this shit is hard to get right - very hard. not knocking anyone but bugs are bugs... I think this attack would be slightly more dangerous than bypassing the sign conformation prompt. am I correct in thinking that the wallet cannot be passworded? maybe a simple left button x times, right button y times would be useful.

I am probably never going to own one though so wont be able to do this kinda testing on it.  good luck though guys.  I fear the plastic ones might be a bit more damageable from outside noise.

would you show me images of the inside? I would love to know the part numbers. is it easy to disassemble?

I have some good schematics for noise generators (which I have made and use) if this even vaguely interests you? guessing not, but maybe the team (slush et al) might be. hit me up.  I can also help with anti tamper (so someone breaks it open, or tries to shave bits off the outside it will purge the secret keys and any other sensitive info - so if it is lost/stolen there is another layer of defence. (potting [setting in resins] would also help, interweave a metal for a mini faraday cage...) - there are also greater options that provide massive security leaps. (dual cypher, dual implementation of cypher, thermo based rng, etc)

We (mistfpga) looked at doing a bitcoin HSM/PayShield type device then the other two got bored with it and went back to breaking things :) shame really. but we are more a small group of hardware/software hackers with a strong bias towards crypto.

anyway good work guys.  I wish you all the luck. and thanks for posting mike, you got me thinking. :)

cheers,

steve.

Well, I pre-ordered back on 8-9-13 and still haven't gotten mine yet. When this thread popped up I took note and emailed the Trezor people and not even a peep back from them in about a month. Any ideas?

Electronics wood, must have one now.

Ordered in September...just checked on my account page...no update about shipping, no news..nothing...quite frustrating

Thought they closed preorders so it should be delivered?

No general deliveries yet. Only working test units have been sent out.

It's awesome to finally see a hardware wallet! looks very nice and compact

Compact indeed :) it is about a size of a box of a matches. :)

Ah thanks was wondering, also isn't the code open source remember reading about that so you can customize your own while waiting, or did that change?

Any word on when these will be available to purchase? They definitely look good..

Congrats looks very nice. How much you paid for it? When it will available for mainstream public?

Sad to hear this. Even after spending $450 per device, the customers are not getting their support tickets answered. Seems that the entire Bitcoin-based pre-order system is a gigantic scam.  >:(

Pre-orders always involve risk, obviously. The very nature of this kind of work is you're taking a risk for and with the community, not buying a product from a well established and slickly oiled up company.

Fortunately stick and slush are legitimate, I know this because I have the device they promised to build, it works, and it works well. You will get your TREZOR sooner or later. But it could take a while - scaling up manufacturing always takes a while with these kinds of projects.

I have ordered in June and I am still confident that I will receive TREZOR sooner or later. You should not trust anyone, especially in Bitcoin, but you should not trust no one either. There are some trustworthy people and this is one of such cases.

Well, they said that they could do this scaling up from July to October 2013.
We have now an additional 6 month. That's 200% additional scaling up time. And still nothing. :o

If you want to play with percentages: the scale of production went 10000% up since then ...

I believe hardware wallets or whatever other stuff are totally secondary but there is one thing bitcoin desperately needs. I mean wouldn't if be nice if there would be one company that answers support tickets in some timely manner and does not do everything humanly possible to look like a scamming black hole that just eats bitcoin. Just one company. Any company. I believe I am not asking for much.


In my opinion this makes it worse, not better. If you see even the most legitimate people setting up companies that do not care about their customers at all, then what hope there really is for bitcoin economy?

Is it possible for me to import my private key?

Always great to see the founder of the company berating customers.

I have ordered Metalic on  23 Sep. my device was delivered on Friday.  :)  ;D

Any idea when Armory is going to support the Trezor?