Bitcoin Forum

As the Title are already explain this Request about the Merit Sources (As there are a lot not active and have left the Forum) it would be nice to hear your Opinion about that !

For sure there will be some active Merit Sources pissed about that Idea here and it should be clear that i have nothing personal against them.

In the first line this post and thread goes to our admin theymos.

theymos you are the one that change and decide who are have the ability to who are can and be a Merit Source for the best outcome for the Forum.
There are many not active anymore and also a few passed away ( God Bless them )

There are made nothing in the last years even there was a lot of applications to getting a Merit Source.
So maybe look at this applications that was done in the past or maybe change someting.

My idea here comes from all that applications in the past , and maybe we can see something like we have on the Default Trust 1 List.
So it could coosen at some kind of pool and change ever 3 Month.

So it depends on how active a Merit Source is or what every you are consider to impliment for that.

With all that the rotation of Merit Sources should be changed every 3 Month.

I dont know how others see that but that is just an Idea for Merit Sources.

Changing of merit sources every three months or according to your words "rotation" in my opinion it's a whole lot of stress for absolutely nothing.

Becoming a source has some kind of trust that one has so rotation or changing every 3 months means even those who Theymos think doesn't deserve it will have it right ? except you're saying he should have a list of already existing merit sources and new sources to rotate it amongst them.

Additionally, I only agree with one fact here which is since some merit sources are dormant (inactive) the positions can be scrapped for now however employing new ones.

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Amongst all the merit source, the only merit source that his impact is noticeable within the time of inactivity is (in loving memories) O_e_I_e_o.

I haven't really noticed anyone else except him.

Where should or is there any stress to decide every 3 Month from some kind of pool of Users that has the apility to get it ?
There should be not a critical change to the Merit Sources just to be clear.

As i already said there is already a pool of Merit Sources right now and its the same in some way we have people and Users on the Default Trust 1 List.
By the way theymos have the right to change everything and how he want to run the Forum.
Again its just an idea for Merit Sources as a lot of them not active the last weeks and month and there are one for years.

So dont get me wrong this nothing against already active Merit Sources but should be given the chance to others that are active and have applications about it.

The rotation might seem unfair to some and a fair thing to some as well since some have the desire to be a source and yet don't have the opportunity to, while some who are might either not be active on the forum again or are on the forum but their source merit is not being spent the way others might want it.

My opinion on this is, let those board whose merit sources are no longer active, either because they have exited the forum or whatever reason it may be, be replaced with a newer person whose application is already in the pipeline.

For existing and active sources, I don't see a point in the rotation. instead, there should be some kind of voting system. If there is any source the public doesn't like, their activities and way of using the source merit, the public can easily raise a poll to get the person replaced.

I get what you're trying to let the community know, and I too feel that circulation of merits have dreid up compared to the previous years which is due to the inactive merit sources for whatever reason.

If the idea to pick new sources then I would say it can be based on their activeness of specific boards, one who is actively contributing let's say in bitcoin discussion then there should be atleast one merit source to cover the board who may be chosen one based on their recent activity on the board and the same goes for each and every section along with the sub section just like the moderators.

theymos may only consider this when there is a serious gap left as a result of inactive merits sources, but of recent, he already approved one from the Nigerian local board which was Igebotz, if there is need for more addition as a matter of urgency, he may consider such, but if not, every other applications can still be pending till the needs arises for him to do s.


Am not sure if this is going to be possible, let me try to ask this question and you also provide answers to them.

Will the rotation be among the merits sources or involves new ones?

Another similar question is if we can that sending or receiving merits is not moderated as long as it is not abused, so i don't think theymos sees this from the perspective you're viewing it.

i think you have no idea how being a merit source works.

Pros
1. It will discourage hoarding of merits by the merit sources.
2. It will foster circulation of merit; as merits sources changes, there's high chances that someone in your gang could be a merit source for 3 months and you will have to enjoy that few months.

Cons
It will encourage merit abuse if an additional system is not implemented to check it.

If the criteria in being a Merit source was something that could be found easily
Meta Woulf have been flooded by merit source application.
I believe old merit source have gained experience in recognising quality post and have built responsibility
That can't be built in three months.

How would changing every 3 month help the current system?
The best I can see is maybe increasing the number of merit source
Not rotating them like its an assignment rather than a service.

This is better. Imagine the workload in always having to review merit sources every three months.

The merits source doesn't have any personal benefits to being a merit source. Rather, they are helping the forum keep more active and inspiring others to contribute to the forum. Merit sources aren't randomly selected or not by public votes. Merit sources application approved by forum administrator. Changing the merits source algorithm won't be fair enough. Rather, Theymos needs to add more merit sources to keep the forum more active. We need more merit circulation on the forum; it will inspire forum users to spam less and make constructive posts.

A merit source should have the ability to handle his/her merits properly, and they have to look deeply at the application before approving any. So I do not agree with your opinion; I would suggest adding more sources and increasing merits for existing merit sources that are performing well.

Honestly your points are actually vague to certain extents though I have an intuition of certain things you may be trying to point out. Firstly if your concern is merit circulation in the forum, the I can boldly say Theymos and the administrators are carefully monitoring them via the stats back end it's the reason you see new sources are rarely added for now.

Adding a new source based on the fact that an old source became inactive isn't the play out sometimes. A majority of the time there are more raises in source allocation of existing sources more often than new sources are added.

The idea of ​​reassessing or rotating the position of source of merit is not bad in itself. But it would require the creation of a structure that would prevent abuse or the exploitation of certain elements.

It is true that the community would be the one to "pre-select" the potential sources of merit, but this would not guarantee turnover, quite the opposite.

Then the 3-month period is very short, especially for someone who has never been a source of merit. There is no time for the user to understand how to establish their own distribution standards.

It could even be longer, but even so, some conflicts of interest could arise in this rotation process.

This type of model would require many changes and be very well - very well - studied to avoid many variables and not cause injustices.

I think it would be more useful to create a habit of re-evaluating existing sources of merit and new potential more frequently. Nothing against the idea, I just think it would need to be elaborated further, which would make it less advantageous.

You want merit source also to be manipulated like they do for DT voting? The idea is not bad but in an open forum when you give a powerful tool freely then you will find abusers are abusing it and destroying the true potential of the tool.

It's better to monitor the sources, the way it is.

I don't follow reshuffling Merit sources for every 3 months, everyone have different solutions for a particular problem, my own solution is for all boards to have an active Mod, whereas these Mods are merit sources. If Moderators are well active, it will aid proper circulation of merits, and for boards with large activities, extra merit sources can be added.

To my knowledge, we do have more than one Mod for each board in the forum, if about 2-3 Mods are merit sources, i don't think there would be lack somewhere.

Of course it seems like no stress but have you checked the DT system and how they are fairing ? their is chaos here and there complains of abuse of DT etc that's exactly what it would be complains everywhere of miss use of merit system that is exactly where the stress is.

The already existing merit system has its impact since the time of initiation but if you want power (merit source) to be circulated then the abuse is going to be on the rise this is just my simple opinion and it's has nothing personal.

It takes alot of time for Theymos to approve a merit source either because he's monitoring the way they spend merit after their application hence it's not just about giving such a very critical (subjective) work to anyone just because they believe they are good enough for the position.

It's a great idea, and could be automated to remove any stress, but it probably won't happen as merit sources are a proven control/reward method. 

Instead of changing sources every month, why couldn't Legendary members generate smerit based on something trackable?   Theymos would only need to adjust a single variable to change smerit creation.  That would eliminate administrator bias, decentralize the system and lead to much more merit activity.   We all like DT being mostly decentralized, but we don't seem to care about merit control. 

Lafu,

I believe there are huge differences between the DT election system and the Merit source selection system. The DT election does not affect the other forums' rank. But a Merit source could affect others' profile rankings. The merit sources must be a trusted person, and the admin should be able to rely on the person so that they won't abuse their merit source ability. But the DT members are chosen by the community. Do you want to make the Merit source election system the same as the DT election?

theymos does not even have enough time to check the merit applications thread. Or he probably thinks the forum has enough merit sources already. Some merit sources are assigned for some specific boards. How do you want to handle that if you reshuffle every few months?

You mean I could have a vacation from this ever growing pile of sMerit that keeps coming back no matter how hard I try to spend them? ;)

But I don't think it's going to make things better. If theymos wanted more Merit sources, they could be added already. If existing Merit sources don't do a good job, they can be removed. Turning them off and on doesn't make much sense, if a Merit source runs out he'll have to wait 3 months again and keep a list of worthy posts.

What a problem and one many would prefer to have instead of the common one ''You have 0 sendable merit (sMerit) which you can send to other people.'' lol.


Why 3 months, why not 1 like the DT system and after immediately you lose your merit source status, you lose all the source smerit. This will discourage hoarding of smerit but for this to be flawless, it can't be influence by voting like with the DT system. Theymos has to be the one deciding who gets to be the source or not. Now how does he choose the right candidates?. He can't ask for recommendations either because then we begin to have some favouritism.

I don't think so. As a Merit source, "hoarding" already means you can send less sMerit in total. If my source is removed at the end of this month, that doesn't make me spend more now. If anything, it would make me more careful with "my own" earned sMerits, as I'll need those to cover the time when my Merit source is put on a dry spell.

I totally agree with you.
Changing merit source I don't think is easy and I don't think it's immediate. Not to mention that it's a great stress for those who manage the forum and a source of possible errors.
It doesn't convince me as a thing, it wasn't designed that way, not like the DT list to make me understand

Personally, I agree with "rotation" of the merit sources every XX months.
Just because there are many valid users that can recognize a good post/topic but maybe don't want to apply for that.
If you look closely, in some cases, you can see users that "coincidentally" receive a lot of merits for trivial posts from the same Merit Sources.

My favorites are "I agree with the main post". They get merits but the main post doesn't get a merit ::)
It becoming more valuable agree with someone ::) and not write that message...
This is funny at least to me ;D
However in some sections I had to "ignore" dozens of users for this reason (no value at all in what they said)...
its evident that some users are using this privilege as a form of soft power and they can decide who and when could become "valuable".

You actually makes some good point but to me rotating merits source is not that easier as rotating DT's over here, what I mean in essence is that DTs could be that possible to do since they often have votes over the time compared with merits source. There are several merits source application pending and theymos not adding more, (thanks to fillippone for his consistencies as he is the only merits source doing wonders and helping lot of people in this forum). While to me any merits source who is not active for the period of 183-365 days should be automatically removed from merits source as this people are not in anyway helping the forum or members to grow. Just like what he did by removing those inactive moderators/admins, such should be implemented to those who are not active with their merits source roles.

Depending on how rotation and new set of merit sources chosen, i expect
1. We'll see regular discussion that merit distribution on certain board "suddenly" got dropped or raised.
2. It'll force some people to earn merit in different way (e.g. visiting board they usually don't visit).

Merit is for quality posts and if there are not enough quality posts, source merit can be spent less than before. If the forum changes to be less active in future, consequently in this example, there are less quality posts, so sourced merit monthly can be reduced and can be spent less. It's natural and there is no convincing reasons for dumping sourced merit on non-quality posts just because your monthly countdown timer comes to very last days.

I think the current system still works better. Merit sources are chosen because they're qualified. truth is, only a few really meet the standards to be one. Instead of rotating them around, maybe it’s better to just monitor how they do their job, especially in distributing merits properly.

After all, the whole point of the merit system is to promote quality posts in the forum, not just to hand them out like free snacks.  :D Maybe there should be a limit on how much merit one source can give to a single post. I’ve seen some give a lot, like they got too lazy to find another good post. Not sure if they were actual merit sources, but still… kinda suspicious.

The solution is to just give more Merit for each good post.

I can't say I completely agree with theymos here, but I get the reasoning behind it. If all Merit sources would do this, the amount of Merit created each month would be equivalent to the total of all Merit sources.

A little change from your post: I see it as a whole lot of work, but not for the "absolute nothing" you mentioned.

If it's disregarded for the more efforts it would cause, fine, but certainly, it's worth it. Merit source holders should be active and worthy, and not absent from the forum for more than 3 months. That's a long time to wait.

If it were to be my idea, the merit system should even be overhauled to make it less centralised and controlled by a few.

In recent years, the purpose of the merit system has already been defeated because most users (including merit sources) do not longer send merit based on quality anymore but based on their feelings even when Theymos have said that merit should only be given to posts with high quality and not about how we feel, and it will make it worse if it becomes rotational as OP suggested because it will lead to more abuse such as meriting due to personal conviction and not quality and also, many sources will be bias on who and how they spend merits. We should not forget that there are users who are corrupt in the forum so if such people are given merit sources based on a rotational arrangement, it will cause more harm than good to the merit system.

I think that i have more ideas about beeing or having a Merit Source that is active.

My first thinking to apply for an Merit Source was Years ago.
Trust me i have more knowledge about how Merit Sources works as others.

And to be clear again this idea is not to change the whole system as it is , but there are a few issues that can be resolved.

I am not only reading and looking at stuff that has to do for Malware and Scams and other shit.
I am here since 2012 (Reading stuff and havnt registerd) and i follow all kind of stuff here.

So i guess i have for sure an Idea how all works , even the special Artists here think i maybe dont have.
To be an Merit Source makes you not better as others.

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Again with that post here and all this has nothing to do or is againt any Merit Sources that we have right now !

Maybe there there should be rule that active Merit Sources should be posting or getting there Merit done by one Month !

If you looking at the applications for an Merit Source the last years there are not much that have been considered !

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Again this post is just an Idea for how and we can have Merit sources , and even all or a few dont like it its a searious thing that we have and should to discuss.

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Aigain i understand all of your explaintens against it , and i all so understand the active Merit Sources!

This all here was and is just an Idea !

so.. i should shitpost just to keep my post count up because im a merit source?

If you are really thinking that and and dont dont take me honest , i dont know what you are thinking to be a Merit Source.

As i have written , its just an Idea for the Future maybe and has nothing to do of that active and good Merit Sources.

I know all of that what it should be and have to be an Merit Source , bro .

The main reason why i tried to question and make this thread is that there are a lot Merit Sources latly not active for some time.

And again its just an Idea , i am open for more Ideas from others but ther has to be done something.

^ Being active doesn't necessarily mean posting more, it can be based on their merit spending nature. So let's say if someone is active related to exchange boards then they will also read and merit worthy posts if it's possible so why not have a different approach? Because theymos himself acknowledged that merit system is not complete and in future there could be changes if necessary and I beleive if it's not now then when? ::)

I was overflowing with sMerit - over 1,000.  I decided to trust Theymos and do what he suggested.  He removed me as a source.  :/

Merit is centralized and political - if Theymos likes you; it's hard to suggest otherwise.

but you know more than a rotation it would be enough to do merits source with small endowments
For example, I have 45 smerits a month but I manage to spread them around, is easy

unfortunately there are those who have a lot of smerits to spread and it's a huge effort
I see the rotation as complex to manage, it would be better to have small and scattered merits sources rather than merits sources with 5000 smerits to give

This makes me wonder why some sources have so much more sMerit to send than others. At 850 it's quite a challenge to spend them wisely.

now you understand why in the end I don't agree with the rotation, if you rotate my sMerits, 45 to another you just make a huge effort, for 45 smerit. 45 smerits to give is easy effort for me

Instead, maybe those who have smerit > 1000 would be better off splitting it in two
just so as not to give him too much effort

I honestly don't understand the point of rotating sources of merit every 3 months.
It would be more useful instead to make merit source status lapse for those who are absent for a total of e.g. 4 -5 months, revoke the status and give it to those who have applied in the past and have not yet been selected.
Less stress for theymos and more efficiency for the forum Don't you think?

You've really talked so well in the aspect of calling on Theymos to look into the inactive merit sources (that's if there's any as you never made mentioned of one atleast) because Theymos schedules may have tied him up not being easy for him to find that out himself. Atleast calling on his attention on the necessities.
I've also come across several threads where fellows complains about merits not flowing as usual.
Sometimes I get questioned why's it happening this way if is it a cause of lot of new users coming to the community as the case may be insufficient sMerits allocations by the merit sources in the case that most deserved merits posts ain't earning it? Or as the view of OP maybe (inactive merit sources members)?.
However, in no ramifications is there need to stil keep having those officiating merit source users blank when aware the sources have been inactive in the forum for quite a long time now.



I think reputation should be most considered instead of ratational because we can't afford to terminate the service of a fair source and give to another user when all we want is just a reputation of users who won't be biased neither using the opportunity of the accounted sMerits to build their Alts or even only focused on awarding sMerits to only favourite members.
Furthermore, rotation of merit source sounds like it's a position that is meant reach every users.
So you must note that not all users here could be reputable on that demand. So, I disagree with the opinion but stand still for Theymos to make his review to reoccupy those blank inactive merit source to active source as the case me may, a lot of persons has as well tendered their applications for it which should be attended to .

I am sure theymos would ''love'' to have additional work in rotating merit source members all the time ::)
I honestly don't see how this would improve anything in this forum, not to mention that members would never be sure about merit source status.
Maybe some inactive merit source could be removed and replaced, but I don't want to have more complications with rotation.

Maybe they are not monitoring exact merit number, they just spend it as they go.

I believe it can, let me give you the perfect scenario how it went after no merit sources in our local board, the activity keep dropping probably due to the users lost motivation to keep posting there when they realised it's not going to be recognised and we also can witness how few local boards reached most numbers and almost challenging for the top spots so adding new merit sources can keep encouraging more active members.

And you may tell that if users are only posting for merits should not deserve to be here but when there's a system in place it has to be fair to everyone.

Exactly  ::)
especially if they are merits source like me with a monthly smerit endowment of 45 smerit
It doesn't make much sense
my solution, on the other hand, sorry if I'm not humble, makes more sense.
spread any excess smerits on several people

I don't know LoyceV has 800 merits and can't give them all, he takes I don't know dkbit98 and makes two smerits source of 400

logical, right?

There's a flaw in your reasoning: Merit isn't scarce. There's no need to reduce one to increase another. The fact that that doesn't happen, makes me think theymos thinks there's enough sMerit going around. I don't have exact numbers without digging them up, but from what I've seen, there's more Merit going around now than we had a year after the introduction of the Merit system, while we have less new posts.

LOL. I guarantee you merit sources are not "hoarding" merits. It is more akin to holding a supply of "fun water" that is replenished monthly and then turning on the spigot when they see fit.


The only decent way to implement it would be to have only the current merit sources in rotation, and this would mean less merits potentially distributed by sources overall. The power of a merit source can easily be abused if put in the wrong hands.

In short, I'm not in favor of any changes to the current system, except for the occasional addition of a new source to make up for older sources leaving the forum.

From my perspective of Theymos view on all this going on, if merit source must be added it has to be proved to Theymos that the increase in the number of newly registered members and/or posts in the forum is way too high that the merit in circulation is not enough anymore.

And from my perspective, Theymos is looking at the statistics of the forum there is no increase in new members or activity instead it goes up and down within a normal ratio. which makes me think that's the more reason Theymos hasn't approved new merit source or increased the merit allocation of any merit source.

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However, is anyone in this forum making any good post and is not recieving merits? of course No so what is the reason behind the merit increase discussion, in my opinion it's just a sense of power or superiority to others that's the reason why guys are forced into requesting for merit increment and also a sense of belonging to the ruling class of the forum through merit. Hence the merit system is more of a power struggle mechanism.

I think the 3 months you are suggesting is too close and it won't make much sense that way. Is like giving the administrator more work to the ones already at their desk. Even in the circular world, you don't see people changing positions every 3 months. If you had suggested 3 years it would have made more sense to me, because that's a long time for someone to have held such a position. And at the end of the 3 years, you don't just remove all the merit sources, you have to evaluate the activities of the merit sources to know those that are active and those that hasn't been active in the period in review and make necessary adjustments.

I don't think there is a need for a system change that automates the periodic replacement of merit sources for a certain period of time. Even if there is a decline in merit source activity somewhere, I can still understand it because they are human beings, but when it goes on for so long that it is deemed necessary to add merit sources, then someone can apply. But really, the problem is that there has been no new addition of merit sources despite the many pending applications and I think that is what needs to be addressed rather than changing the system.

You may notice the difference if you dig a little bit. If we remove merits shared from WO, ranking up threads, merit review threads, and forum drama/politics, the activity on merits shared that's actually related to crypto might decline a lot compared to the past. ;)

Quality of posts decreased? Probably but if we concentrate on Bitcoin, we can't come up with new ideas every day but rewarding something that's not pure spam could be a new criterion.

I know you can come up with the numbers, and I am too eager to know the stats that's why the trigger. :P

I fully agree with this notion. Allowing people to be merit sources without a time limit only opens the to door to malicious activity. I will be posting a thread soon about major abuse from an existing merit source, which hopefully provides precedent to implement this change to make a rotation.

Uhh... That "door" has been open the entire time, for as long as the merit system has existed.

There have been problems with merit sources in the past, but they were quickly quashed.

The only real problem is shitposters think they deserve more merits, despite contributing very little in the way of anything interesting to the forum.


There's no guarantee that implementing the change would have any positive effect on the forum. All it would do is require more accounts to be trusted not to abuse their merit source powers.

If there have been problems with merit sources in the past and were quickly quashed, how does that mean that the problem is solved or doesn't still exist?


No, that isn't the real problem. It's not a problem because shitposts get ignored, as do their complaints about not getting enough merit. That is not near as big of a problem in comparison to merit sources abusing their powers to do things like favor their friends or farm accounts, both of which are happening currently.

I don't see how that would be. If there are merit sources in a 3 month period who clearly abuse their powers, they'll be excluded and it will be noticed much more than the current vague practice where a select few members (who are also highly trusted and harder to be spoken against if they were to be abusing their power) are merit sources indefinitely.

You weren't active at the time, but in 2018 there was an instance of one merit source giving out truckloads of merits for shitposts in an attempt to demonstrate how the merit system didn't work. They were removed as a merit source by theymos. That was considered to be a "problem." There have been very few problems of that magnitude since then. I can't recall any other merit source being involuntarily removed from their position.


It probably does happen but you've yet to provide any evidence to back up your claims.


Yet there aren't any merit sources deemed to be abusing their powers at the moment. So the change being proposed assumes that the forum will have to rely on more people to do the right thing. That's not an improvement.

Please don't respond, "I'm working on an investigation to expose the abusers" -- you've already said this a dozen times across various threads, and its meaningless talk since you've yet to demonstrate you're capable of actually investigating anything.

mine is not a perfect proposal
but it's always better than the 3 month rotation proposal, that is, it doesn't change anything for me but follow my reasoning, should I rotate every 3 months for 45 merits? come on
you understand very well that it's a ridiculous thing

how ridiculous is my smerit allocation after all, it's funny but I do it for the good of the community so if I have less, I give less

Perhaps an alternative solution, should theymos choose to do nothing, is for a merit source (or merit sources) to create "mini-merit sources", where said merit sources monthly sends 50 merits to everybody on this list (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5538657.0), who will then have 25 smerits each to merit other users.

It is worth noting that 25 smerits is much less than the 100 smerits minimum that theymos assigns merit sources, so I don't think one merit source can do this by himself.

those peeps on the list will get mad amounts of merit. like what, possibly a few hundred merits a month (or 50 as you suggest) just for being on that list? and thses merits will be added to their "standard" merit count. and they will be permanent.

with actual merit sources, the smerits dont get added to our "real" merit count and unused ones decay after 30 days.

Is there a prove to show those that are inactive or has left the forum for long term?
I think pointing them out would also help theymos to work very fast on them and also make new decisions of making new merits as I believe that theymos love working with prove. Rotating merits source sound so good but don't you think otherwise? Whom are they to be given and have you also confirm the quality of those people to given source or involved in the rotation?

Whatever decision theymos has taken towards the growth of this forum is always the best, though even as that I would also appeal to him to add additional merits source to the locals to enable some of the local that are not growing very fast to grow as well.

Well I would have to believe what you said because if not so there wouldn't had been any day that people submit application and he don't even respond or give a word to those who has already submitted application, and again while does some people have a higher merits allocations than others. All this made me have this rethink that Merit is political, in fact everything is politics and one must be strong on forum politics to be able to survive in all aspects and that is what they called reputation.

This is a nice suggestion and since there no move to add more sources then I am fully in support of this steps. This will help reduces the task on merits sources if their messengers are working for them. I mean, if such amount are being credited to the people on the list then it would also relief those merits source from much task of reading and giving out merits.

This is a fair suggestion considering that Theymos rarely accept merit source application despite many merit source becomes inactive.

Good example is what’s happening to our local board. Our Merit source becomes inactive for many years while almost everyone on our board already have 0 smerit that makes our local board has very low merit circulation.

Having an sMerit assigned on legendary member even on small amount regularly will help board like us to keep growing without merit source. Merit distribution is trackable so this is not a big concern.

Merit is for posts, not for users. If they create good posts each month, and if (a big if) I read them, I'll Merit them.

I don't think there's a minimum. I've seen posts about a 10 sMerit monthly source.

What on earth is someone going to do with a 10 smerit allocation?  :D

There is nothing stopping merit sources to send 50 merits even now, but they should not do it only to some approved members.
I don't want to see rules around merits to be very strict, except in case when there is some merit abuse or selling.
I remember few years ago members and merit source asked for merits all the time, but that is not the case these days, so there is obviously not such a high demand.

Good to know that there is precedent for merit sources being removed for abusing their power.


I've said this multiple times before, I am not time rich - I do not spend hours and hours on the forum or have enough time to allocate to research outside of the few hours I already allocate to both the forum and research per week. You will see the evidence when I've posted the threads.


I've said that I'm investigating bc game, those who are in high trust positions and anyone conducting wrongdoing. To you, it's meaningless, though you or others prompt me to say it when it's appropriate to do so.

Additionally, I pointed out over 15 accounts that woke up just to abuse the eXch phishing campaign, saving eXch in the realms of $5k-$10k as a result. It's absolutely untrue that I haven't demonstrated a capability to investigate, though even that aside, I have said multiple times that what I am researching are delicate situations involving people and entities of high power. I've also said that I'm not in a rush to post the threads, as I would prefer to post when the possibility to refute is little to none. That takes time, not just doing the research but presenting the truckload of information in a way that is digestible. You're welcome to continue calling things meaningless though it really is just an assumption.

Another reason I continue to mention what I'm working is not just because it's appropriate, but it also may prompt others to do research themselves as well.

If you disagree with that then that's just two people disagreeing. You aren't the judge and jury on what people can say or post, especially if you are just guessing yourself (assuming you are genuinely uninvolved in any abuse or wrongdoing, and aren't just covering up for people).

As to the rotating merit source suggestion, I have to strenuously oppose it; I think the rotating DT1 crap is just that--crap.  There have been some good ideas here over the years (like the merit system as a shining example), and there have been ones that have left me scratching my head.

What Theymos ought to do is give some guidance as to how he thinks the merit system is working and what his plans are as far as adding merit sources.  Outright ignoring merit source applications for years is rude at best, especially since they take a lot of work to post.  And yep, we've lost some sources to attrition but the community has no clue what big boss man plans to do about replacing them.

But I've written all that shit before and it does no good.  No offense meant, OP, but this thread here will fall on deaf ears.  Theymos is obviously engaged in some other important activity and can't devote any time to addressing any of our concerns.  Show me where I'm wrong.

Merit sources have something in common with Moderators now: both barely get any changes.

I'm already a mini merit source :D ahahah with 45 monthly smerit to give
I'm not complaining, let's be clear, I do it to help the community

however the less I have the less I can give, that's all

compared to others I really look like a little garden gnome lol

I'll believe it when I see it. You've sure got a lot of posts out of telling people you are investigating something without actually offering any proof you are investigating anything. Just a lot of accusations across the board w/o anything tangible to back them up. Its been going on for months now...


I kind of like it as its a kind of democracy that is unique to the forum ("democracy + an element of randomness").


I'm in agreement with this. I suppose the addition of a few new merit sources to replaces the inactive ones wouldn't hurt.

I don't know how this is going to work, change of merit source every 3 months? And those who applied since 2 to 3 years ago haven't gotten any reply from theymos and more are still applying some are planning to, so how is it going to work? Fine let's say theymos accept OP's idea who are the members to take over from the current merit source in the next 3 months? Nobody.
Earning merit these days is very hard and the only thing that might work is by suggesting that the current merit source should be active and do things the way they were doing before now, but if you think changing merit source every 3 months will work I doubt if it will.

I wouldn't say there's a lot, and I wouldn't say it's not on topic and in line with the conversation when it is mentioned. I don't just go around saying it spontaneously. I have not laid "a lot of accusations across the board w/o anything tangible to back them up" on multiple subjects either, generally it is two topics - casino malpractice and forum member corruption. It's been going on for months because the topic keeps being arisen while I haven't found a lot of time to finish the threads. It's tiring work, though it will be done when it's done. Again, I see no reason to give myself an expiration date by going on about something that won't ever exist. Though in saying that, you don't have any right to start judging me or my credibility because I haven't posted fast enough for you.


What do you think about voting (for merit sources) rather than rotation?

Someone can actually be active in the forum for quite awhile without dropping a word in the forum. Especially those officiating in the forum such as moderators and the merit source.
There most obligations is to keep their respective sub boards clean from unwanted posts and as well encouraging quality posts. For the sake this maybe mentally stressful in keeping all posts on tracks, it may not be easy for such users to keep posting on the regular like a in the signature campaign who may likely post just for post count just as Vapourminer said earlier, the demand for active merit source to keep update on merit distribution does not hold any bond of good quality and same time maybe unnecessary.
Although a user with much free time might actually step on it by creating a chart and updating it records of how the merits were distributed and in other view again, it would be unnecessary as the merit source distributed merits can as well be visible when visits their profile merit summary (sent merits)

Its just was an Idea , and lets say we can change that to every 6 Month , depends on active the Merit Source is.
I came up with that idea because there are so many Users that applied for an Merit Source and nothing happend really here in the last 2 years.
On top of that there are so many Merit Sources that have been not active for Month.

No its not , people and Users just posting crap and dont think about about that what they are posting , thats the one that are complaining about.
I dont doing that to gain more Merits i doing that and bring up some some Ideas because there are a lot of Sources be are not active.
Sorry to say that but you your to young to understand that all as it was back in the days.

Again for all others this not to rechange the whole system it was just an Idea.

I have to be honest: I am dismayed with the amount of cheating & manipulation that goes on in this forum. I'm starting to get the feeling that there are far, far more alt accounts on the forum than anyone can imagine. Making a swindling alt account a merit source can have far reaching effects: everything from ranking up alts for sig campaigns to farming accounts for loan scams. That's why I think the hesitation to add new merit sources is warranted.


I have every right to judge you and your credibility, just as you have the right to attack my reputation by insinuating I'm part of some alt farm or larger forum conspiracy. My point is nobody is impressed by accusations without substance to back them up. Anybody can do that, and anybody does it, and they have the same amount of credibility as you: zero.

You've made a lot of accusations against other forum members and even the forum's admin, but so far haven't backed up a single one of them. Usually what happens when credible people make accusations is they post the evidence along with the accusation. But not you, because you're special, I guess.

I don't know, I repeat, I'm speaking from the point of view of a merits source with 45 monthly smerits
doing the rotation every 3 months for this misery makes no sense

It makes sense to split up those who have too many and perhaps can't give them all and do, I don't know, instead of one merit source of 1000, two of 500


It seems to me the most logical choice

From your perspective it will be a good thing to do but Loycev explained it better, the merits are not scarce so no point in reducing one to increase another unless the admin want to keep the merit distribution to a certain number for some reason. But 45? That's too low, theymos should review them once in a while and whoever exhausts their merits should get a 10% increase after a cycle, which can be 3 months or 6 months, and it can keep on going.

As I said, being active doesn't necessarily mean posting more, it is about how much time they spend on reading others' post and able to make a judgment whether it will be helpful for others too and encourage such posts with merits. Posting frequency is their preference and no one should force change their posting habit just because they are in signature campaign.

You're "starting" to get the feeling  ::)


The forum admin blew tens of thousands of donated Bitcoins on new forum software and controls administration over a forum that is for a decentralized currency. That's not accusation, it's truth. Other members of the forum are corrupt and enabling corruption to breed and thrive in the forum. That's no lie, it's truth. It's visible, and happening right in front of the community. It's not made up. How much do I need to point out? What do you want me to make a thread about to back up my claims? Tell me and I'll make sure it's in line with what I'm already working on.

In relation to you, I have asked you the questions required to gauge your level of involvement, and you have always avoided questions, answered ambiguously, and/or never clearly answered "no, I'm not aware of or a part of any wrongdoing on this forum". There would always be some adjusting of words to avoid lying and addressing certain topics. That's one reason why I question your integrity and made the comments that I did. Another is that you are quite aware of the abuse that happens on this forum and yet your efforts seem very limited and selective, like you are not limitless but limited, thus in some form, corrupt.

Also, being special has nothing to do with it. The root of our problem is that you are choosing not to take into account the time that it takes to create a thread, that way you can say that I have no credibility due to the threads not being posted yet, or even worse that I am making things up, when actually what I am speaking of are delicate subjects (due to it involving trusted members of the community and their legitimacy as community members) and therefore takes time to publish about without being punished for doing so. I'm sure you know that already though, and I assume you'll continue beating the no credibility drum despite a lot of what I say being in plain sight/visible to a lot of others (and even, being discussed by others).

I just want to say as well that before I "opened my mouth" (as you put it):
- People didn't realize BC game was scamming selectively. Now it's becoming known and discussed in the forum, and my thread should serve as a big blow to their ongoing scam, as well as other casinos doing similar things. If administration or the legitimate segment of trusted members on this forum care about reducing criminal activity, then it's possible that something will be done on that level.
- Even you denied or evaded questions of any existent of large, elite/trusted member-run alt farms initially, and now even if your post you suggested that alt/farming happening through merit sources) is something you now admit you are "starting" to feel is happening.

As far as I am aware, my raise of awareness through my posts are working...why? Because once again, a lot of what I say is already out in the open for everyone to see, and dig further into. I want my threads not to be new revelations, but nails in coffins. If it means you will try to hurt my credibility every time I post on the topics, so be it. Time will favor me, not you :)

So what? It was a mistake. He admitted it as such. I red tagged the appropriate account (the contractor), which is more than you did. Now its time to move on. Nobody owes you anything BTW. If you feel this was a disgrace to the forum and you don't trust the admin then you should just move on as this obviously isn't the place for you. Whining about it won't fix anything.


Again, words are extremely cheap. Anybody can say anything. You should back up every accusation you make with hard evidence. If you can't do this, your words have no value whatsoever. Nobody should have to remind you about this. As an adult on the internet, you should know this already.


You are so massively full of shit its not even funny. Again, nobody owes you anything. Its on you to gather evidence to support your claims, not on anybody to answer jack shit for you. If I don't want to answer your questions its because I think you're a jackass. Just making piles of allegations without a sliver of proof to back them up. Truly pathetic.


I did not say this. Stop twisting my words to fit your personal agenda.

yes ok I understood what LoyceV said
but I still don't understand the rotation proposal, it seems to me with too much effort
maybe I'm a little limited in my imagination, this could be it, I don't rule it out at all
In my opinion it would be an effort that is not rewarded

As i have expected that the Community is not happy with that kind of Idea and suggestion i will be locking this Topic now to prevent any kind of spam !

Thank you for all that left there opinions about that whole Idea and the pros and contras about it.
It was just an Idea and has nothing to do or against all active Merit Sources to be clear.
Really appreciate every one and the lot of Merit Sources that try to give and doinf there best for the Forum and the Community.

Wish you all a nice and good Weekend !