Bitcoin Forum

Bitcoin => Hardware wallets => Topic started by: fillippone on June 05, 2025, 10:36:07 PM



Title: TANGEM WALLET: An Innovative Seedles Cold Wallet Setup
Post by: fillippone on June 05, 2025, 10:36:07 PM
    The Tangem Wallet has an innovative and unique approach to the most challenging aspect of owning Bitcoin, managing a private seed.
    Tangem decided to package an industry-grade secure cold wallet into a credit card form factor, delegating the management of the seed phrase to the companion app, whose backup is mandated to the physical card itself without the user being able to know the phrase in the first place.
    This unique approach removes the weaker element, the human being, from the chain of control of the seed, both simplifying the usage of Bitcoin and elevating the security standard.

    Note that the Tangem wallet is capable of handling many different cryptocurrencies, but in this review, I will focus only on Bitcoin, without exploring the many features available for the shitcoins. I will focus only on the seedless option, as it is the most innovative one, just understand that a "classic" seed option is present, but in this case, the mechanism would be much more like a conventional Hardware wallet.

    Of course, I am a big supporter of self-custody and private seed management. See for example my thread:

Securing Your Seed Phrase with Washers (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5389446.msg59506339#msg59506339)

Finally, of course, I didn't get any funding or any provision from Tangem Wallet or anyone else. This review is only the product of my commitment to this forum. I found an interesting concept and wanted to share it with you guys.




Table of Contents

1. Foreword: what is a cold wallet?  (#post_Uno)
2. Physical Design (#post_Due)
3. Setup Process (#post_Tre)
4. Everyday use  (#post_Four)
5. Disaster Recovery (#post_Five)
6. A word about shitcoins (#post_Six)
7. Who can benefit from Tangem the most? (#post_Seven)
8. Pros and Cons - Expanded (#post_Eight)
9. Final Remarks (#post_Nine)



1. Foreword: what is a cold wallet?

A cold wallet is a wallet architecture that allows the seed not to be in an online device ever. The signing of the transactions happens entirely offline. The online part only asks for the offline part, through a secure connection, the signing of the transaction, and broadcasts it, once the offline part has returned the cryptographic signature. In this process, the seed is never exposed online.

https://talkimg.com/images/2025/01/22/WkMmT.jpeg (https://crypto.com/en/university/crypto-wallets)
Source (https://crypto.com/en/university/crypto-wallets)

There are a few main types of cold wallets, every one has its own specific pros and cons

Type
Pros
Cons
Hardware Wallet
  • Very secure (private keys never exposed)
  • Easy to use with UI/UX
  • Widely supported by wallets & dApps
  • Portable and durable
  • Costs money (typically $50–$200)
  • Can be lost or damaged
  • Needs backups of seed phrase
Paper Wallet
  • Totally offline and immune to online hacks
  • Free to generate
  • No hardware dependency
  • Easy to lose, tear, or destroy
  • Inconvenient to use for transactions
  • Not beginner-friendly (can be misused)
Air-gapped Computer
  • Ultimate security (fully isolated from the internet)
  • Flexible (can run custom offline wallet software)
  • Can store many wallets securely
  • Expensive to set up
  • Requires technical expertise
  • Not portable
  • Complex transaction signing process

Tangem tries to solve the trade-off between the hardware wallet and the paper wallet.

Type
Pros
Cons
Tangem Wallet          
  • Totally offline and immune to online hacks        
  • Free to generate
  • Easy to use with UI/UX
  • Can store many wallets securely
  • Costs money (typically $100)
  • Can be lost or damaged, but has backups.
  • Needs backups of seed phrase



2. Physical Design

https://talkimg.com/images/2025/06/04/UXibXG.jpeghttps://talkimg.com/images/2025/06/04/UXiptD.jpeg
Tangem Box
Opening the box, you see a brief instruction sheet.
https://talkimg.com/images/2025/06/04/UXiDcf.jpeghttps://talkimg.com/images/2025/06/04/UXiO0Z.jpeg
The Tangem Card is then revealed.
I choose the 3 black card setup.

The Tangem card's design is minimalist, featuring a slim profile with dimensions comparable to the one of a credit card, only barely thicker for durability. It's made from a high-quality plastic material that feels premium to the touch. The card's front typically displays the Tangem logo, and the back includes the card's serial number, NFC symbol, and some essential legal information. A variety of designs are available. I chose the black design which features a totally black, anonymous card, that make the card less obviously relatable to cryptoproducts if found in the wild.

https://talkimg.com/images/2025/06/04/UXiqJ3.jpeghttps://talkimg.com/images/2025/06/04/UXixS9.jpeg
The Tangem Card is a nicely embossed Logo
The other two cards are completely black
https://talkimg.com/images/2025/06/04/UXi0pw.jpeghttps://talkimg.com/images/2025/06/04/UXieM8.jpeg
The Back of the main card has only some drawing, the other two are completely black.
The cards are almost thick as a normal credit card.

The card is nearly indestructible, can be submerged, and is not damaged by X-rays (can safely be scanned at airports) or extreme temperatures. The card is also water-resistant, and dust-resistant, and can operate in extreme temperatures, making it suitable for various environments. The cards have been certified with an IP69K certification.

This durability adds another layer of practicality for users who might want to take a cold wallet with them, without worrying too much about the environment that might be in contact with the device.  
In case of faulty cards, Tangem provides a 25-year product Replacement Warranty.

The wallet interacts primarily with NFC technology, which supports a tap-to-use mechanism. This feature makes it user-friendly and inherently secure since the card must be near a device for any transaction, reducing the risk of unauthorized access. The absence of a screen, while a security concern for some, contributes to the wallet's sleek design and portability, encouraging users to carry their assets with them as easily as they would cash or cards.

This air-gapped operation greatly reduces the risk of attacks from malware or from hacking, as the wallet never exposes sensitive information.
Tangem uses secure cryptographic protocols for each communication: every data transfer between the wallet and the smartphone is cryptographically secure. In case of loss or theft, private keys are inaccessible thanks to physical and software isolation in the design of the workflow. This elevated protection level makes Tangem a viable solution for everyone who wants to have a secure, yet practical solution to store their digital wealth.



3. Setup Process

The setup process for Tangem is quite straightforward. Upon receiving your cards, you download the Tangem app, available for both iOS and Android devices, which guides you through creating a new wallet or importing one. The Tangem App firstly checks the authenticity of both the Secure Elements and the firmware in the Card. Once this has been verified, the App authorizes the Secure Elements to generate the user’s private keys securely within the card's Secure Element.
The secure element is compliant with the EAL6+ security certifications and is developed in collaboration with Samsung Semiconductors. The chip supports multiple cryptographic operations, ensuring that even if the card were to be physically compromised, the data within remains secure.

The user can generate your seed phrase in three ways:
  • Seedless: You let TRNG - True Random Number Generator included in the secure element to generate the seed. The seed is generated and stays within the Secure Element and never leaves it. The Seed never gets online. With this configuration, Tangem is a cold wallet.
  • Traditional Seed: You use the App to generate the seed and you import the seed in the Tangem Card. The Tangem is actually a Hot Wallet.
  • Import your Existing Seed Phrase in the Tangem Card. Tangem
    has to be considered a Hot Wallet, as you need to input the seed in a mobile phone that is probably connected to the internet, it will be later connected to it.


Once you have chosen your preferred method,  the app prompts you to tap your card on your phone.  


https://talkimg.com/images/2025/06/04/UX8sBq.pnghttps://talkimg.com/images/2025/06/04/UX8IkP.png
First screen of the Setup Process
A brief introduction to the wallet
https://talkimg.com/images/2025/06/04/UX8FD2.pnghttps://talkimg.com/images/2025/06/04/UX8zVz.png
Overview of the meain features ...
... and its security model


Repeating this operation for all the cards in your possession allows you to have a backup for your cards, in case you lose one.



https://talkimg.com/images/2025/06/04/UX8PhI.pnghttps://talkimg.com/images/2025/06/04/UX8jD3.jpeg/td]
First screen of the Setup Process
A brief introduction to the wallet
https://talkimg.com/images/2025/06/04/UX8CZC.pnghttps://talkimg.com/images/2025/06/04/UX8Q3b.png
Overview of the meain features ...
... and its security model


I highly recommend a seedless solution only if you order more than one card, otherwise, your funds would be locked in the tangem wallet in case you lose your cards, as in this scheme, the card is the only means you can actually move the funds.
As an alternative, you can opt to create a traditional seed phrase, but this is not mandatory, adding to the wallet's appeal for those who might be overwhelmed by the responsibility of managing such phrases. This more common solution is exposed to the pros and cons of seed management you should already know.  
As the microchip, the Tangem firmware is not open source, and it has been audited by a third-party company. The firmware is not updatable and is permanently written in the Tangem Chip.
The App on the other hand is open source and gets regular updates.


https://talkimg.com/images/2025/06/04/UX8Hmm.pnghttps://talkimg.com/images/2025/06/04/UX8SJW.png
You need to create an access Code
FaceID integration
https://talkimg.com/images/2025/06/04/UX8ZpJ.pnghttps://talkimg.com/images/2025/06/04/UX81nw.jpeg
Select the token of your interest
Your functioning wallet (I already received some funds)

The setup process is very easy and straightforward: during the process, I made some errors, primarily removing the cards too soon or exposing the wrong card: the app recognized the problem, and guided me toward the solution and the correct setup.


4. Everyday use

User interface, as you can see, has been designed with a simple and accessible design and language, this makes Tangem wallet particularly suited for experienced users and beginners as well, being particularly clear and tutoring about the choices and steps to be made.

If you want to spend money from your Tangem wallet, just prepare your transaction on the app, then Tap the card.
 The app constructs the raw transaction The card and app exchange data; the app sends the unsigned transaction, and the card’s secure element signs it with your private key.

The signed TX is sent back to the app, which immediately broadcasts the signed TX to the network.
The transaction is signed without the seed never leaving your card!

Of course, this simplicity came at a cost, For crypto newcomers, Tangem significantly reduces the learning curve associated with managing private keys and seed phrases. The app's interface is designed to guide users through transactions with clear, step-by-step instructions. However, for advanced users, there might be a trade-off; the simplicity might lack some of the customization or detailed control options found in other wallets. For example, while sending a transaction, I wasn’t able to set up a fee in Satoshi that wasn’t round: either 1 or 2 Satoshi, not 1.1. While not particularly compelling, this is only an example of a feature that is almost standard in any major wallet.



5. Disaster Recovery

What happens if you lose a card?

If you lose one of the cards in your Tangem Wallet set, the impact depends on which and how many cards you still possess, as well as whether you set up a seed phrase during activation:

1. Tangem Wallet Structure and Redundancy
    
  • Tangem Wallets are sold as sets of 2 or 3 physical cards, each of which contains an identical copy of your private key generated during the initial setup process. This redundancy ensures that losing a single card does not immediately lock you out of your funds.
  • During the initial activation, you decide how many cards to include in your backup (typically 2 or 3 cards, each with a copy of your seed depending on the number of cards you bought). Keeping these cards in separate, secure locations is crucial to prevent total loss.
 
2. Losing a Single Card
    
  • Access Remains Intact: As long as you still have at least one of the remaining cards from that set, you can continue to access and manage your funds exactly as before. The lost card by itself cannot be used to drain your assets, because any transaction still requires scanning one of the remaining genuine cards plus your PIN.
  • No In-Place Replacement: You cannot “add” a brand-new card to an already-activated wallet. In other words, once a set is initialized, its private key is cloned only on those cards you originally chose. If you want to restore full redundancy (e.g., return from 2 cards back to 3), you must purchase a new Tangem set and transfer your funds to that fresh wallet.
  • Security Considerations: If you suspect the lost card has fallen into malicious hands, it’s wise to move your entire balance from the old wallet into a newly created one (with new cards). That way, even if someone somehow obtains the lost card, they cannot use it to access your assets.


3. Losing All Cards in a Wallet Set
  • Without a Seed Phrase (Tangem 1.0 or no seed setup): If your Tangem Wallet was never linked to a seed-phrase backup and all cards are lost or stolen, the private key is gone forever. There is no way to recover access, and your funds become irretrievable.  
  • With a Seed Phrase (Tangem 2.0 or Tangem Ring): If, during setup, you opted to generate a BIP-39 seed phrase, you can use that phrase to restore the same wallet (and its private key) on another Tangem-compatible device. In that scenario, losing every physical card does not doom your funds—simply create a fresh Tangem Wallet (or use a software wallet that accepts the same seed), enter the exact 24-word phrase, and you regain full control.  

4. Access Code Protections
  • Each Tangem card requires a PIN (access code) before it will sign any transaction. Even if someone finds your lost card, they can’t immediately move your funds without guessing the PIN. After multiple failed attempts, the card enforces delays to prevent brute-forcing.  
  • If you forget your own access code, you can reset it only if another card from the same wallet set is available. At least two cards are needed to reconfigure or recover an access code.  

5. Lost Phone vs. Lost Card
  • Your smartphone is merely an interface; it does not store your private keys. If you lose your phone, your funds remain safe—just install the Tangem app on a new NFC-enabled handset and scan your remaining card(s) as before.
  • Conversely, losing all cards equates to losing the private key itself (unless you have the seed).

Source: Tangem Blog (https://tangem.com/en/blog/post/lost-tangem-wallet/)


What happens if someone finds your card?

If someone finds a Tangem card, here’s what they can do with it:

1. View the public address and check balances
  • By tapping the found card on any Tangem-compatible app, an attacker can read its public address (since the card holds both private and public key pairs). Knowing this address, they can look up your balance and transaction history on the blockchain or in any wallet explorer.
    In other words, they learn exactly how much crypto is stored “behind” that card, but they still don’t have the private key.

2. Cannot extract the private key or seed phrase from the card
  • Tangem cards store private keys inside a secure element; those keys can’t be exported or copied out under any circumstances. Even Tangem engineers cannot extract them. Because of this, an attacker cannot clone your wallet or recover your seed phrase solely from having the physical card.

3. Cannot move funds without the access code (PIN)
  • Every Tangem card requires the user to enter an access code (PIN) before it will sign any transaction. Without the correct PIN, the card simply won’t authorize outgoing payments.
  • If someone tries random PINs, the card enforces an increasing delay after each incorrect attempt—after six wrong tries, it adds a one-second delay per subsequent guess (capping at 45 seconds). This makes brute-forcing the PIN practically impossible.
  • Even if they somehow guessed the PIN, they’d only be able to sign transactions on that single card. If you had already moved funds off that wallet (e.g., after noticing the card was lost), there wouldn’t be anything left to steal.
4. Could attempt to reset the card—but only if they know the access code
  • If an attacker somehow already knows your PIN (e.g., found written down elsewhere), they could use the card to reset it back to factory settings. That wipes out any seed-phrase link and private key, essentially destroying the wallet—but it still does not send funds anywhere.
5. No risk of “silent” key extraction or malware hacks
  • Tangem’s secure element is designed so that the private key never leaves the chip. Even a sophisticated “man-in-the-middle” on the NFC interface can’t siphon the key—everything happens inside the chip itself.

Without knowing the PIN, resetting is impossible: the “Forgot your code?” flow itself requires scanning one of the other backup cards in your set.
In short, they cannot hack the card remotely; they must physically enter the correct PIN to sign a transaction.



6. A word about shitcoins

Tangem supports an extensive list of cryptocurrencies, which is continuously expanding. This includes not only mainstream cryptocurrencies but also less common tokens, which are managed through token lists within the app. This broad support is facilitated by the wallet's ability to interact with various blockchain networks directly, ensuring that even as new tokens are launched, Tangem can potentially support them with updates to its software.

One of the standout features is the wallet's integration with decentralized apps (DApps) and DeFi protocols via WalletConnect, a protocol that allows secure communication between wallets and DApps. This integration means users can engage in staking, yield farming, or even play blockchain-based games without needing to expose their private keys.

Users are also allowed to Swap, or Trade, tokens directly inside the Tangem Wallet. Fees are not cheap, but the convenience of having direct conversion between any token is definitely a plus for less experienced users.



7. Who can benefit from Tangem the most?

  • Travelers: The tangem form factor makes it ideal for travelers who wish to carry their crypto securely without the bulk of traditional hardware wallets.
  • New Crypto Users: Tangem's user-friendly setup and operation make it a go-to for those just entering the crypto space.
  • Multi-Currency Holders: those with a diverse portfolio appreciate Tangem's support for a wide array of cryptocurrencies.



8. Pros and Cons - Expanded

Pros:
  • Mobility: The card form factor and NFC technology make it one of the most mobile-friendly hardware wallets.
  • Security: With no known security breaches and high-level certification, it offers robust protection for digital assets.
  • Multi-Card Safety: having a seedless wallet avoids the technicalities of seed management and custody. All is delegated to the card's physical backup. Backup and phone constitute a dual-part system almost unbreakable.
Cons:
  • App Dependency:All operations are managed via the app, which could become a single point of failure if not managed correctly. This is not a pure cold card, meant to be unattended for years.
  • IF YOU LOSE ACCESS TO ALL YOUR CARDS, YOUR FUNDS ARE GONE. As you have to take care of a backup of your seed in a traditional setup, you have to be careful of your cards in a seedless setup. Backing up a card is by the way easier as the card is not sufficient to spend your coins
  • Physical Deterioration: even if the cards are very well built, are not prone to physical damage and the warranty of the Tangem is 25+ YEARS, they contain electronic components that could be prone to failure. It’s better to periodically check the integrity of the cards (maybe at a multiyear-length interval).
  • COST of Disposal: In case you want to move your coins to a new Hardware wallet, your only option is to move the funds. There are privacy and economic considerations. Moving funds exposes your funds to on-chain analysis, which is a privacy-endangering situation. Also moving funds requires paying some fees, which is of course not desirable. If you had a seed, you could move Wallet simply by importing the seed in the Tangem.



9. Final Remarks

Tangem Wallet stands out in the crowded space of cryptocurrency hardware wallets by offering a unique blend of security, simplicity, and style. It's particularly appealing to those who value ease of use alongside high-level security, making it one of the best options for everyday users who want to manage their cryptocurrency safely without the complexity of traditional hardware wallets.

However, for users requiring more granular control over their transactions or those heavily involved in the NFT ecosystem, other solutions might be more suitable. Despite these limitations, Tangem continues to evolve, with updates to its app and support for new cryptocurrencies, showing a commitment to staying relevant in a rapidly changing crypto landscape.

In summary, Tangem Wallet isn't just a tool but an innovative solution aimed at cryptocurrency security, that can be both sophisticated and user-friendly, challenging the industry to rethink how we secure our digital wealth.


Title: Re: TANGEM WALLET: An Innovative Seedles Cold Wallet Setup
Post by: Findingnemo on June 05, 2025, 11:05:22 PM
First of that's a well-explained review, thanks for that.

I am not an expert to know how and where these cards possess the generated keys but it looks like they are safe because no battery involved here that affects the life of a cold wallet in general which makes it a good one for long term as well as for day to day usage without going for a hot wallet that increases the risk of losing our bitcoin in many ways.

But the con is we must keep the cards as backup to access the wallet and if we lose there is no way to recover, making it not suitable for actual storage for crypto, just only that we might use in real soon.



Title: Re: TANGEM WALLET: An Innovative Seedles Cold Wallet Setup
Post by: Charles-Tim on June 05, 2025, 11:27:59 PM
Cons
Costs money (typically $100)
Can be lost or damaged, but has backups.
Needs backups of seed phrase
Needs backups of seed phrase is not a con.

This air-gapped operation greatly reduces the risk of attacks from malware or from hacking, as the wallet never exposes sensitive information.
According to what I saw about it online, before the seed phrase backup is done on the cards, it requires Internet connection. Is it true? For the seed phrase backup, it is displayed on the phone. The phone that can mistakenly be online or that people might not on the airplane mode while setting it up.

The secure element is compliant with the EAL6+ security certifications and is developed in collaboration with Samsung Semiconductors. The chip supports multiple cryptographic operations, ensuring that even if the card were to be physically compromised, the data within remains secure.
This is one of the initial reasons I was not a fan of Ledger Nano. Trezor maintain the open source even after they have secure element in Safe 3 and 5. Why are other wallets not following the step?

But the con is we must keep the cards as backup to access the wallet and if we lose there is no way to recover, making it not suitable for actual storage for crypto, just only that we might use in real soon.
You can go for the seed phrase backup option in a way you will see the seed phrase displayed on the phone screen.


Title: Re: TANGEM WALLET: An Innovative Seedles Cold Wallet Setup
Post by: JiiBs on June 05, 2025, 11:39:52 PM
Opened this thread and was about reading on but, when I saw how long it was, I jumped to the summary at the bottom and then back to read up from the beginning. To be frank, it was an interesting read and review as, most of my curiosity was answered along the lines just as they developed.

Like Charles-Tim, one of my concerns was
This air-gapped operation greatly reduces the risk of attacks from malware or from hacking, as the wallet never exposes sensitive information.
According to what I saw about it online, before the seed phrase backup is done on the cards, it requires Internet connection. Is it true? For the seed phrase backup, it is displayed on the phone. The phone that can mistakenly be online or that people might not on the airplane mode while setting it up.

Having it in a mobile device that would have internet on it during the setup. I guess the right idea here would be, turning the internet data service off or WiFi before going through the pairing the cards to the wallet that is, right?

Another of my concerns was the NFC technology as mentioned; haven’t seen some videos on social media where NFC enabled devices were just brought close to card holders bags and possibly their pockets and have transactions confirmed raised concerns for me but,
The fact that the transaction would be originated in the app and only signed with the card thereafter before it’s finally broadcasted gives me some great comfort. In essence, as a card that holds the key to several coins, having to do an on app initiation of a transaction, you get to define currency to be spent and ensures every transaction is intentional, removing the risk of anyone just getting in contact with your card to sign a transaction as it’s got to be done both ways. Kind of like, the multisig facet.

Given that the card is made of high quality plastic and labeled to be almost indestructible, how would it do with fire though, what’s the melting point for the card if you’ve got any idea and would heat affects its internal components like, the chips even without the card melting?

In all, the over all design looks good and the black card is sleek, I like it!


Title: Re: TANGEM WALLET: An Innovative Seedles Cold Wallet Setup
Post by: Lillominato89 on June 06, 2025, 04:59:20 AM
Congratulations fillippone!
A truly impeccable review, perfectly written and explained point by point as a review should be.
My English is not the best, but I did not quite understand what material it is made of? Is it durable?
You who physically have it at home, does it feel durable to the touch?

It would be a shame for such a beautiful and well-designed wallet to be lost through the use of less than excellent materials, with the risk of breaking or deteriorating.
OK there are another 1 or even 2 backups, but this makes me think even more.
This wallet was created to eliminate the weak link in the chain of storage of funds, but by duplicating or even tripling the backup you risk exposing your funds to the hands of malicious people (just to give you an example).

I once again congratulate fillippone, who always with constancy and dedication keeps this forum active and gives us valuable tips


Title: Re: TANGEM WALLET: An Innovative Seedles Cold Wallet Setup
Post by: babo on June 06, 2025, 05:40:38 AM
    The Tangem Wallet has ~~~
Interesting version of a coldwallet/hardware wallet.
There are some not insignificant innovations in the sector that aim to make everything simpler and safer for the user. Well done fillippone.
But I don't think I've seen the website or the price of this wallet, I expect this technology to want a little more money.[/list]


Title: Re: TANGEM WALLET: An Innovative Seedles Cold Wallet Setup
Post by: fillippone on June 06, 2025, 09:31:17 AM

But the con is we must keep the cards as backup to access the wallet and if we lose there is no way to recover, making it not suitable for actual storage for crypto, just only that we might use in real soon.

Every solution of course has a trade off.
This is the management of the physical cards, which might be easier than managing a seed phrase. A black card is much more disguising, than a list of 12 or 24 words.

And yes, you are correct, this cold wallet actually makes it a little bit less difficult to spend from it.
I wouldn’t use it for my main stash, but it offers an higher degree of security compared to an electronic hot wallet, which exposes online the seed.


Title: Re: TANGEM WALLET: An Innovative Seedles Cold Wallet Setup
Post by: Aanuoluwatofunmi on June 06, 2025, 11:30:20 AM
I hope this TANGEM WALLET get the required exposure for use, just as the way we have been used to other hardware wallets, because its actually part of the solution in which people needs to have their asset under a cold storage, hardware preferably to some, thanks to fillippone for sharing with the community on this newly introduced wallet, i hope all the forum mega threads on wallet find it suitable to include among the list of most recommended hardware/cold storage wallet.


Title: Re: TANGEM WALLET: An Innovative Seedles Cold Wallet Setup
Post by: fillippone on June 06, 2025, 03:18:00 PM
Cons
Costs money (typically $100)
Can be lost or damaged, but has backups.
Needs backups of seed phrase
Needs backups of seed phrase is not a con.



Of course it is not a con, but it is something to manage and pay attention to.
But I see your point, and I will try to better describe this concept.

According to what I saw about it online, before the seed phrase backup is done on the cards, it requires Internet connection. Is it true? For the seed phrase backup, it is displayed on the phone. The phone that can mistakenly be online or that people might not on the airplane mode while setting it up.


I didn’t try the seed option. I tried only the seedless way.
I think my device actually was online when I setup that. For sure I didn’t remember any advice of getting in airplane mode.
Having said that, this wouldn’t be much more added security, if Tangem were a malicious organisation, nothing would prevent them to make the app (which is open source and  audited, btw) to transmit the seed at a later stage.


Title: Re: TANGEM WALLET: An Innovative Seedles Cold Wallet Setup
Post by: Becassine on June 06, 2025, 11:01:41 PM
Something I think might be interesting to add is that Tangem Pay will likely be available at the end of the year. (You can also join  the waiting list  (https://tangem.com/en/cardwaitlist/)). Tangem Pay will initially be available in the European Union and the United Kingdom at launch. Tangem plans to expand availability to other jurisdictions in the future, potentially in more than 160 countries where Tangem wallets are already available, but no specific list of additional countries has been published for Tangem Pay.

Quote
Tangem Pay is an upcoming self-custodial payment solution developed by Tangem that integrates directly with Visa's global payment network. It will allow users to make crypto payments at millions of Visa-supported terminals worldwide.


 What is Tangem pay ?  (https://tangem.com/en/blog/post/tangem-pay-visa/)


Title: Re: TANGEM WALLET: An Innovative Seedles Cold Wallet Setup
Post by: babo on June 07, 2025, 08:07:17 AM
I didn’t try the seed option. I tried only the seedless way.
I think my device actually was online when I setup that. For sure I didn’t remember any advice of getting in airplane mode.
Having said that, this wouldn’t be much more added security, if Tangem were a malicious organisation, nothing would prevent them to make the app (which is open source and  audited, btw) to transmit the seed at a later stage.

seedless stuff is really cool, it really inspires me, but after so many years of using seed maybe I'm not ready to use seedless stuff yet

elysium made a very nice experiment to have a sort of fixed data, like pylons, that if always used in the same order give you an equal seed

example if you put
email, your password, your date of birth and more get a seed
but the nice thing is that you don't have to remember the seed but only the data you wanted to use


Title: Re: TANGEM WALLET: An Innovative Seedles Cold Wallet Setup
Post by: ranochigo on June 07, 2025, 08:33:11 AM
Another of my concerns was the NFC technology as mentioned; haven’t seen some videos on social media where NFC enabled devices were just brought close to card holders bags and possibly their pockets and have transactions confirmed raised concerns for me
NFC is quite secure, and moreso with the fact that the environment that the user is using it in probably doesn't allow for any subtle eavedropping. Cloning the NFC doesn't prove to be useful because its encrypted data and they have proven it before. It is secure enough.

However, I personally wouldn't want to introduce another attack vector. It would still prefer for my HW wallet to be wired and for the data transfer to be more secure.

IMO, blind signing is the biggest drawback for me and it really helps for me to be able to physically confirm my transaction details on a separate device. Tangem provides no protection against this, nor for your environment to be perfectly safe.


Title: Re: TANGEM WALLET: An Innovative Seedles Cold Wallet Setup
Post by: dkbit98 on June 07, 2025, 06:14:57 PM
I don't like Tangem wallet and I would never recommend it to anyone.
First of all Tangem code is closed source, and they had serious security incident in the past when private keys got leaked from their Tangem app.
Another reason I don't like Tangem is that you can only use it with their app, so there is no way to use any third party wallets.
In case Tangem company goes bankrupt there is good chance coins will be lost.

There are good alternative devices in similar card format liek Satochip and Keycard, that are both open source.
They provide much better alternative for backup with encrypted cards like Seedkeeper.


Title: Re: TANGEM WALLET: An Innovative Seedles Cold Wallet Setup
Post by: Findingnemo on June 07, 2025, 07:33:35 PM
There are good alternative devices in similar card format liek Satochip and Keycard, that are both open source.
They provide much better alternative for backup with encrypted cards like Seedkeeper.
But I don't think they use NFC (not sure). There was a similar one but it's from a different wallet provider. I am trying to remember the name even asked chatgpt to find it's name with no success so if someone remembers tha,t then please post it. All I can remember is it's from a Singapore-based one.

It's good to know that Tangem had security flaws, but OP suggested that it is a convenient and better option than a hot wallet for our smartphone, as it provides better security for our small stash than being connected to the internet all the time.


Title: Re: TANGEM WALLET: An Innovative Seedles Cold Wallet Setup
Post by: dkbit98 on June 07, 2025, 07:42:00 PM
But I don't think they use NFC (not sure).
You can clearly see this on satochip.io website main page - Powered by an NFC chip card.

It's good to know that Tangem had security flaws, but OP suggested that it is a convenient
Silly statement since people lost their coins because of dumb convenience.
https://www.bitdegree.org/crypto/news/tangem-wallets-critical-security-glitch-exposed-user-keys-via-emails

Tangem is only good  for people who are not using their brain  :P


Title: Re: TANGEM WALLET: An Innovative Seedles Cold Wallet Setup
Post by: m2017 on June 08, 2025, 03:07:02 PM
The Tangem card's design is minimalist, featuring a slim profile with dimensions comparable to the one of a credit card, only barely thicker for durability. It's made from a high-quality plastic material that feels premium to the touch. The card's front typically displays the Tangem logo, and the back includes the card's serial number, NFC symbol, and some essential legal information. A variety of designs are available. I chose the black design which features a totally black, anonymous card, that make the card less obviously relatable to cryptoproducts if found in the wild.
This is a mimicry of standard bank cards. This wallet looks promising from the point of view that you can carry it with you every day and not arouse suspicion (if accidentally discovered by other people).

The only thing is that this card can be stolen, thinking that it is a bank card. :)

The card is nearly indestructible, can be submerged, and is not damaged by X-rays (can safely be scanned at airports) or extreme temperatures. The card is also water-resistant, and dust-resistant, and can operate in extreme temperatures, making it suitable for various environments. The cards have been certified with an IP69K certification.
But the card is still subject to burning/melting, right? What is its melting point?

It would be great if the card was made of a flame-retardant material.

The user can generate your seed phrase in three ways:
  • Seedless: You let TRNG - True Random Number Generator included in the secure element to generate the seed. The seed is generated and stays within the Secure Element and never leaves it. The Seed never gets online. With this configuration, Tangem is a cold wallet.
  • Traditional Seed: You use the App to generate the seed and you import the seed in the Tangem Card. The Tangem is actually a Hot Wallet.
  • Import your Existing Seed Phrase in the Tangem Card. Tangem
    has to be considered a Hot Wallet, as you need to input the seed in a mobile phone that is probably connected to the internet, it will be later connected to it.

Seedless: but if you lose/damage the card, then access to the contents of the wallet will be lost forever.
Traditional Seed: App on the phone? This is a great way to compromise the seed phrase.
If it is possible to do this on a PC (preferably without an Internet connection, for example, via Bluetooth, but better via cable), then there are no questions.
Import your Existing Seed Phrase in the Tangem Card: The same. Dangerous for compromise.
Option 4 from the perspective of a potential client: I like option 1, but with the ability to have a backup for recovery.

What happens if you lose a card?

If you lose one of the cards in your Tangem Wallet set, the impact depends on which and how many cards you still possess, as well as whether you set up a seed phrase during activation:

1. Tangem Wallet Structure and Redundancy
    
  • Tangem Wallets are sold as sets of 2 or 3 physical cards, each of which contains an identical copy of your private key generated during the initial setup process. This redundancy ensures that losing a single card does not immediately lock you out of your funds.
  • During the initial activation, you decide how many cards to include in your backup (typically 2 or 3 cards, each with a copy of your seed depending on the number of cards you bought). Keeping these cards in separate, secure locations is crucial to prevent total loss.
 
2. Losing a Single Card
    
  • Access Remains Intact: As long as you still have at least one of the remaining cards from that set, you can continue to access and manage your funds exactly as before. The lost card by itself cannot be used to drain your assets, because any transaction still requires scanning one of the remaining genuine cards plus your PIN.
Hmm, having additional cards containing an identical copy partially solves the backup issue. But again, I wouldn't consider this option for long-term storage. Only as a temporary "pocket money" for the duration of the trip.

I think this device is a very good idea. Everyone has smartphones and the industry will develop in this direction (hardware wallets for smartphones). Therefore, it was only necessary to eliminate the problems that arise in this case. Card just allows to close the issue with the security of the mobile crypto wallet.

I think that this is a good solution, for example, for traveling as an alternative to carrying the main HW device with you.

Now imagine that instead of a card there will be a ring (like a tangem ring). This gives compactness, mobility and ease of use. With one swipe of your finger, your transaction will be confirmed and most importantly, without the threat of a wallet in the app on the phone. I think the hardware wallets industry will move in this direction (instead of a card there may be other forms, for example, a keychain or something like that). I would like to have the ability to customize. For example, the company sends a "blank" of the card in the form of a capsule, which I can place in any object that fits the size.


Title: Re: TANGEM WALLET: An Innovative Seedles Cold Wallet Setup
Post by: Zwei on June 08, 2025, 08:36:09 PM
Silly statement since people lost their coins because of dumb convenience.
https://www.bitdegree.org/crypto/news/tangem-wallets-critical-security-glitch-exposed-user-keys-via-emails
hardware wallet, exposed emails, and logged private keys should never be in the same sentence. holy smokes, this is even worse than ledger, and i thought that was as bad as a hardware wallet could get.
how can anyone still trust this shitshow hardware wallet with their coins?

Tangem is only good  for people who are not using their brain  :P
can't disagree with that.


Title: Re: TANGEM WALLET: An Innovative Seedles Cold Wallet Setup
Post by: m2017 on June 10, 2025, 04:15:43 PM
Tangem is only good  for people who are not using their brain  :P
But now they will be the majority in this niche. The era of techies in the cryptocurrency industry is a thing of the past. A flood of ordinary people and philistines has flooded into this area, for whom use should be elementary simple and convenient. This is what will be able to create mass payments.

Payments in crypto should be, 1st of all, simple and convenient, from the position of an ordinary user. HW device manufacturers will also move in this direction.


Title: Re: TANGEM WALLET: An Innovative Seedles Cold Wallet Setup
Post by: odolvlobo on June 10, 2025, 10:16:25 PM
2. Losing a Single Card
The lost card by itself cannot be used to drain your assets, because any transaction still requires scanning one of the remaining genuine cards plus your PIN.

That statement is confusing to me. How is the lost card protected? It can't be used because 2 of 3 cards are necessary, or because a PIN is required? Can you clarify?


Title: Re: TANGEM WALLET: An Innovative Seedles Cold Wallet Setup
Post by: fillippone on June 11, 2025, 05:37:31 AM
I don't like Tangem wallet and I would never recommend it to anyone.


This one is a review, I am considering ups and downs of this solution. I am not recommending it, but I think it has an higher degree of security of the standard hit wallet everyone has on their phone. I am not recommending Tangem as a primary backup solution. I hope this is clear in my OP.


First of all Tangem code is closed source, and they had serious security incident in the past when private keys got leaked from their Tangem app.


I might add it to the OP.
Do you think this is a good explaination of what happened?

You are referring to a bug discovered December 2024 in Tangem’s mobile app: when users created a wallet using a seed phrase, the app mistakenly recorded the private key in plain text in its log files. These logs were optionally sent when users contacted support through the app—meaning that, in those cases, private keys could be emailed to Tangem staff.

Tangem stated, "no private keys were compromised, no user funds were lost, and no accounts were accessed.”.
The issue only affected users who:

  • Created a seed‑phrase wallet; and
  • Contacted support through the app within 7 days of creation.

That was fewer than 0.1 % of users.

Seedless wallet users were never affected, as their private keys are never handled by the app.

Tangem patched the bug immediately in app releases, disabling any logging of private keys. They erased all suspect logs and emailed attachments from their systems   And Notified affected users directly, encouraging them to take precautions. Last but not least, they reinforced security practices, including inviting independent researchers via their ongoing bug bounty program.

The bug has been fully resolved in current app versions, and logging of private keys is no longer possible. The issue did not affect seedless setups, which remain Tangem’s recommended option. Tangem continues to undergo independent firmware audits (most recently by Riscure in 2023), and the private key always stays inside the chip.




Another reason I don't like Tangem is that you can only use it with their app, so there is no way to use any third party wallets.
In case Tangem company goes bankrupt there is good chance coins will be lost.
This is not a risk.
Tangem as a firm is never involved in the store of your coins, no Tangem server is needed to move your assets, and in case you need to recover your fund, you will always be able to do so following this guide. (https://tangem.com/en/blog/post/after-the-apocalypse-how-tangem-wallet-will-function-without-tangem/)



There are good alternative devices in similar card format liek Satochip and Keycard, that are both open source.
They provide much better alternative for backup with encrypted cards like Seedkeeper.

If ii have some time, I can add a paragraph on those solution, doing a quick comparison.
Thanks for pointing out



Title: Re: TANGEM WALLET: An Innovative Seedles Cold Wallet Setup
Post by: satscraper on June 11, 2025, 06:56:36 AM
I've had my Tangem cards for over a year now, and I have to say that I'm quite happy with how they perform especially for on-the-go use.

Quote from: satscraper


What I would add to OP's nice review is that Tangem's SE namely, S3D350A is manufactured by Samsung.



The chip is flashed once during production and contains many monitoring sensors, including those responsible for detecting third-party interference.


What’s also interesting about this chip is that it includes as many as five TRNGs:



Title: Re: TANGEM WALLET: An Innovative Seedles Cold Wallet Setup
Post by: babo on June 13, 2025, 07:24:34 AM
very interesting, I follow these technical discussions with pleasure
I'm asking myself a little question, let's say a provocation

It is estimated that current addresses can easily become broken in 5 years at this rate of quantum computing growth
so I wonder if it doesn't make sense to wait for a wallet like that, since in 4-5 years we'll have to change


Title: Re: TANGEM WALLET: An Innovative Seedles Cold Wallet Setup
Post by: fillippone on June 13, 2025, 09:48:08 PM
very interesting, I follow these technical discussions with pleasure
I'm asking myself a little question, let's say a provocation

It is estimated that current addresses can easily become broken in 5 years at this rate of quantum computing growth
so I wonder if it doesn't make sense to wait for a wallet like that, since in 4-5 years we'll have to change
In the next 4/5 years you can use Tangem wallet if you want more security compared to an hot wallet. When the QC will be so powerful to break a cryptographic key, then we will have to upgrade. When QR Bitcoin will be released, then we will need again to rebuild all the wallets.
No rush.


Title: Re: TANGEM WALLET: An Innovative Seedles Cold Wallet Setup
Post by: satscraper on June 14, 2025, 05:50:43 AM
very interesting, I follow these technical discussions with pleasure
I'm asking myself a little question, let's say a provocation

It is estimated that current addresses can easily become broken in 5 years at this rate of quantum computing growth
so I wonder if it doesn't make sense to wait for a wallet like that, since in 4-5 years we'll have to change


I'm still trying to fully grasp the implications of quantum computing. One thing I'm uncertain about is whether quantum computers will be able to break addresses without violating the fundamental Landauer's principle (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Landauer%27s_principle), which could theoretically limit any computational device even quantum one. On top of that, some research  (https://journals.aps.org/prl/abstract/10.1103/PhysRevLett.125.160602)suggests that quantum effects could actually result in higher energy dissipation compared to the theoretical Landauer limit, with estimates indicating an increase by a factor of 30. If this holds true, it raises the question of whether it's technically feasible to realize such computational schemes in the near future.



Title: Re: TANGEM WALLET: An Innovative Seedles Cold Wallet Setup
Post by: babo on June 14, 2025, 12:16:40 PM
In the next 4/5 years you can use Tangem wallet if you want more security compared to an hot wallet. When the QC will be so powerful to break a cryptographic key, then we will have to upgrade. When QR Bitcoin will be released, then we will need again to rebuild all the wallets.
No rush.

I think we will have to move the funds to more resistant addresses, nothing magical and nothing astronomical, no rocket science
I wonder if this wallet will support them after, otherwise I'll keep mine until it changes permanently that's all

I'm still trying to fully grasp the implications of quantum computing. One thing I'm uncertain about is whether quantum computers will be able to break addresses without violating the fundamental Landauer's principle (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Landauer%27s_principle), which could theoretically limit any computational device even quantum one. On top of that, some research  (https://journals.aps.org/prl/abstract/10.1103/PhysRevLett.125.160602)suggests that quantum effects could actually result in higher energy dissipation compared to the theoretical Landauer limit, with estimates indicating an increase by a factor of 30. If this holds true, it raises the question of whether it's technically feasible to realize such computational schemes in the near future.

I honestly think we will reach unimaginable computing powers with quantum computing, it implies a real paradigm shift from 1/0 to an even more powerful fuzzy logic
Of course, nobody has a crystal ball and in my opinion 4/5 years is very optimistic, a click-bait title
but we don't know if AI can evolve to the point of making a significant contribution


Title: Re: TANGEM WALLET: An Innovative Seedles Cold Wallet Setup
Post by: dkbit98 on June 14, 2025, 10:29:16 PM
It would be great if the card was made of a flame-retardant material.
I have seen metal cards before, so it's not impossible to make them, but I would never use Tangem cards even if they are indestructible  :P

hardware wallet, exposed emails, and logged private keys should never be in the same sentence. holy smokes, this is even worse than ledger, and i thought that was as bad as a hardware wallet could get.
how can anyone still trust this shitshow hardware wallet with their coins?
It's much worse and I think this is not the only time they leaked customer information.
I don't understand how people can ignore this and still use tangem, but I guess they like to live risky and on the edge.

Tangem stated, "no private keys were compromised, no user funds were lost, and no accounts were accessed.”.
This is not true.
People lost coins and they posted publicly about that, tangem is only covering things up.
Even if they fixed the ''bug'' it showed how they are amateurs.

This is not a risk.
Tangem as a firm is never involved in the store of your coins, no Tangem server is needed to move your assets, and in case you need to recover your fund, you will always be able to do so following this guide. (https://tangem.com/en/blog/post/after-the-apocalypse-how-tangem-wallet-will-function-without-tangem/)
It is a risk, and I have to say that this comic style ''guide'' is one of the worse thing I saw in my life.
If you have to joke about ''aliens'' and 2069 and Gamma Cephei, than they have serious mental issues.
Problem with tangem is much bigger than I expected, back and recovery is a serious thing.



Title: Re: TANGEM WALLET: An Innovative Seedles Cold Wallet Setup
Post by: fillippone on June 15, 2025, 01:23:20 AM
I have seen metal cards before, so it's not impossible to make them, but I would never use Tangem cards even if they are indestructible  :P
[/quote]

It's much worse and I think this is not the only time they leaked customer information.
I don't understand how people can ignore this and still use tangem, but I guess they like to live risky and on the edge.

This is not true.
People lost coins and they posted publicly about that, tangem is only covering things up.
Even if they fixed the ''bug'' it showed how they are amateurs.

It is a risk, and I have to say that this comic style ''guide'' is one of the worse thing I saw in my life.
If you have to joke about ''aliens'' and 2069 and Gamma Cephei, than they have serious mental issues.
Problem with tangem is much bigger than I expected, back and recovery is a serious thing.

Wow, you really hate this product.
You claim that people lost money in the “bug” accident, and Tangem covered this up. If you have some evidence, please point me in the correct direction, so I can check and eventually add this to the OP, as it would be a pretty much serious thing to report.

Regarding other aspect, I think is a misunderstanding here.

Would I use Tangem to store my big stash? No. Seedless storage is not an option in this case.
Would I use Tangem to store a low percentage of my stash on my mobile having an extra layer of protection keeping my seed offline all the time, without worrying of a backup? Yes. Seedless storage is an option for the money I can afford to lose if something random happens.

Would I go with all my bank account on my wallet? No never.
Would I go with a few hundreds buck in my wallet? Yes, if I want to have the convenience of a quick, private , payment without worrying to much if my wallet gets stolen or lost.

It’s a fine balance, convenience vs security. And there are many use cases where I think the first outweighs the seconds. In these cases only, I think Tangem is a good option.


Title: Re: TANGEM WALLET: An Innovative Seedles Cold Wallet Setup
Post by: satscraper on June 15, 2025, 07:49:05 AM
People lost coins and they posted publicly about that, tangem is only covering things up.
Even if they fixed the ''bug'' it showed how they are amateurs.


This is not accurate. No one lost their coins. What actually happened was that some users noticed the flaw in their mobile app's code. This could potentially affect the small number of users who set up their Tangem using SEED i.e. preferred to have not seedless wallet , and contacted support within one week of setup without carefully reading the automatically generated, relevant message content in the app.

Even if they fixed the ''bug'' it showed how they are amateurs.

 ;D ;D ;D

By that logic all software developers could be considered amateurs. Even Satoshi could be, as bitcoin had bug, even Linus Torvalds could be, since Linux has had plenty of bugs some of which went unnoticed for decades, even Foundation devices could be, as their firmware had bug. I'm not going to proceed with other narrations. No software is completely bug free. Show me the complex software that has zero bugs.


Title: Re: TANGEM WALLET: An Innovative Seedles Cold Wallet Setup
Post by: dkbit98 on June 15, 2025, 08:42:18 AM
Wow, you really hate this product.
No I don't hate tangem, I am simply using my head and doing a research.
Tangem is insecure closed source piece of ship with many secure flaws, and it is making people more lazy and more stupid.
Sorry, I forgot to mention another security flaw in tangem that is identified by donjon team:
https://www.ledger.com/tangem-genuine-check-bypass-on-android-application

You claim that people lost money in the “bug” accident, and Tangem covered this up.
Dude, they publicly admitted that KEYS GOT LEAKED!
This is worse than losing actual coins, but you are choosing to trust tangem instead.

This is not accurate. No one lost their coins.
Not your keys = not your coins = not your tangem.
Simple.

PS
Last time I checked tangem even had NO Coin Control... and it's 2025  ::)


Title: Re: TANGEM WALLET: An Innovative Seedles Cold Wallet Setup
Post by: fillippone on June 15, 2025, 09:21:59 AM

PS
Last time I checked tangem even had NO Coin Control... and it's 2025  ::)

It has no coin control.
But which mobile wallet has?
I might be wrong here, but every mobile wallet I used didn’t offer this feature.
I do agree their wallet app is pretty basic: I tried to set a decimal value of fees in Sats/vbyte and it wasn’t possible.

When comparing Tangem, I think a fair comparison is not electrum desktop or sparrow, but an average mobile hot wallet.


Title: Re: TANGEM WALLET: An Innovative Seedles Cold Wallet Setup
Post by: dkbit98 on June 15, 2025, 10:04:06 AM
It has no coin control.
But which mobile wallet has?
Satochip has coin control, and it's open source hardware wallet in card format.
Plenty of mobile wallets support coin control, and I will name few of them here, Nunchuk, Blue wallet, Green, Envoy, Ashigaru, Aqua wallet, etc.

When comparing Tangem, I think a fair comparison is not electrum desktop or sparrow, but an average mobile hot wallet.
Than I will use any FREE open source hot wallet, instead of paying for tangem.


Title: Re: TANGEM WALLET: An Innovative Seedles Cold Wallet Setup
Post by: babo on June 16, 2025, 09:19:47 AM

PS
Last time I checked tangem even had NO Coin Control... and it's 2025  ::)

It has no coin control.
But which mobile wallet has?
I might be wrong here, but every mobile wallet I used didn’t offer this feature.
I do agree their wallet app is pretty basic: I tried to set a decimal value of fees in Sats/vbyte and it wasn’t possible.

When comparing Tangem, I think a fair comparison is not electrum desktop or sparrow, but an average mobile hot wallet.

ah it doesn't have coin control?
mmmm in fact dkbit98 is right, both ledger and safepal have control
not to mention the old and always criticized electrum
the fact that it doesn't have this thing leaves me a little perplexed honestly
Do they have it in their roadmap or do they just not want to implement it?


Title: Re: TANGEM WALLET: An Innovative Seedles Cold Wallet Setup
Post by: satscraper on June 18, 2025, 09:18:51 AM
Do they have it in their roadmap or do they just not want to implement it?

This is still a sealed book. They haven’t even managed to implement support for multiple Bitcoin addresses, despite promising it over a year ago. It seems their focus is mostly on adding more tokens to the Tangem wallet and developing TangemPay, which is reportedly in the testing phase. I’ve seen a few YouTube reviewers who received Tangem Visa card for testing and have already shared their first impressions of TangemPay.


Title: Re: TANGEM WALLET: An Innovative Seedles Cold Wallet Setup
Post by: Pmalek on June 18, 2025, 03:57:29 PM
Tangem seemed like an interesting concept but the key leakage is the worst thing that a hardware wallet can do. If we agree that a hardware wallet is a device that is supposed to keep your keys safely on said device, Tangem doesn't meet this requirement. It might have been for a short time and the problem might have affected only a small part of their users, but it's a huge no-go.

Plenty of mobile wallets support coin control, and I will name few of them here, Nunchuk, Blue wallet, Green, Envoy, Ashigaru, Aqua wallet, etc.
Even Electrum mobile has a weird concept that can be considered as coin control. They allow you to freeze coins and addresses, leaving the one/ones you want to pay from unfrozen. Like I said, a weird way to implement coin control.


Title: Re: TANGEM WALLET: An Innovative Seedles Cold Wallet Setup
Post by: babo on June 19, 2025, 09:58:22 AM
Do they have it in their roadmap or do they just not want to implement it?

This is still a sealed book. They haven’t even managed to implement support for multiple Bitcoin addresses, despite promising it over a year ago. It seems their focus is mostly on adding more tokens to the Tangem wallet and developing TangemPay, which is reportedly in the testing phase. I’ve seen a few YouTube reviewers who received Tangem Visa card for testing and have already shared their first impressions of TangemPay.


no thanks then I'll pass
this kind of stuff really disgusts me honestly, I've compromised too many times I would like to avoid those who make their main business selling tokens
I buy your hw because I don't want any hassle and you focus on tokens
it means you don't care about the wallet

step


Title: Re: TANGEM WALLET: An Innovative Seedles Cold Wallet Setup
Post by: Becassine on June 20, 2025, 08:19:08 PM
Meanwhile, Tangem has been shortlisted for the WAIBsummit in its "Most Trusted Wallet Award" category. https://waibsummit.newcampus.com/nominees

I don't know how they make the selection, since the Bitbox is missing. That's weird, isn't it?

And the wallets are quite different from each other too. I don't know, I've never heard of this summit.


Title: Re: TANGEM WALLET: An Innovative Seedles Cold Wallet Setup
Post by: HodlRoad on June 21, 2025, 06:45:26 AM
Another reason I don't like Tangem is that you can only use it with their app, so there is no way to use any third party wallets.
In case Tangem company goes bankrupt there is good chance coins will be lost.

I get your concerns, but one important thing to note: even if Tangem shuts down, the wallet won't become useless. While the app itself isn't fully open source, Tangem has published their SDK on GitHub, so it's possible to build a custom app manually. You can do it yourself or ask a developer to help. The key point is that the private key is stored securely on the card itself, not in the app. So as long as you have the card, you can still access your funds even if the official app disappears.


Title: Re: TANGEM WALLET: An Innovative Seedles Cold Wallet Setup
Post by: Pmalek on June 21, 2025, 07:27:45 AM
Meanwhile, Tangem has been shortlisted for the WAIBsummit in its "Most Trusted Wallet Award" category. https://waibsummit.newcampus.com/nominees

I don't know how they make the selection, since the Bitbox is missing. That's weird, isn't it?
Many quality brands are missing from that list. Nothing about that deserves to be called a trusted wallet list. I have never heard of Youhodler but it looks like a crypto tech company. Ledger is on the list and this company hasn't radiated trust the last couple of years. The other two "wallets" are for the OKX and Bitget exchanges. And last but not least there is Tangem.

Maybe those who pay the most get a nomination and stand a chance to win the award.


Title: Re: TANGEM WALLET: An Innovative Seedles Cold Wallet Setup
Post by: libert19 on June 21, 2025, 08:06:39 AM
...The issue did not affect seedless setups, which remain Tangem’s recommended option...

I never felt safe with their seedless option, what if cards stop working? Tangem does look confident that their cards will keep on working but what if one day they don't? You'll be dusted.


Title: Re: TANGEM WALLET: An Innovative Seedles Cold Wallet Setup
Post by: satscraper on June 21, 2025, 08:08:58 AM
Another reason I don't like Tangem is that you can only use it with their app, so there is no way to use any third party wallets.
In case Tangem company goes bankrupt there is good chance coins will be lost.

I get your concerns, but one important thing to note: even if Tangem shuts down, the wallet won't become useless. While the app itself isn't fully open source, Tangem has published their SDK on GitHub, so it's possible to build a custom app manually. You can do it yourself or ask a developer to help. The key point is that the private key is stored securely on the card itself, not in the app. So as long as you have the card, you can still access your funds even if the official app disappears.

I’d like tp elaborate a bit your post and, at the same time, this topic to clarify for others how Tangem app operates under the hood.

First, the Tangem app is open source software. This means that even if the Tangem company were to shut down, the community could audit, fork, and maintain the app independently.

Second, the app’s ability to function does not depend on Tangem’s servers. Instead, the app communicates with various blockchains using public RPC/API endpoints with built-in redundancy of 3–5 public servers per supported blockchain. If one server goes down, the app automatically switches to another, ensuring continued access to supported assets and relevant blockchain data. One of the services Tangem uses for this decentralized connectivity is GetBlock:


Therefore, if Tangem company were to shut down, the cards would continue to function as intended.


Title: Re: TANGEM WALLET: An Innovative Seedles Cold Wallet Setup
Post by: fillippone on June 21, 2025, 04:57:14 PM
Meanwhile, Tangem has been shortlisted for the WAIBsummit in its "Most Trusted Wallet Award" category. https://waibsummit.newcampus.com/nominees

I don't know how they make the selection, since the Bitbox is missing. That's weird, isn't it?
Many quality brands are missing from that list. Nothing about that deserves to be called a trusted wallet list. I have never heard of Youhodler but it looks like a crypto tech company. Ledger is on the list and this company hasn't radiated trust the last couple of years. The other two "wallets" are for the OKX and Bitget exchanges. And last but not least there is Tangem.

Maybe those who pay the most get a nomination and stand a chance to win the award.

I guess you are right.
In other industries, there are similar prizes, and the award gets to the person who pays the most the organizer of the prize itself.
You can buy your own prize by buying a few tables at the gala dinner of the award ceremony, in a terrific circular reference.

Sad to see a similar approach in such a critical topic as signing device security.


Title: Re: TANGEM WALLET: An Innovative Seedles Cold Wallet Setup
Post by: dkbit98 on June 26, 2025, 05:10:44 PM
Even Electrum mobile has a weird concept that can be considered as coin control. They allow you to freeze coins and addresses, leaving the one/ones you want to pay from unfrozen. Like I said, a weird way to implement coin control.
That exist on Electrum desktop version also, but I don't see anything wrong with that.
You can always import keys in any other wallet and send those coins, it's not like they are actually locked.

I get your concerns, but one important thing to note: even if Tangem shuts down, the wallet won't become useless. While the app itself isn't fully open source, Tangem has published their SDK on GitHub, so it's possible to build a custom app manually.
Nobody is going to do that.
Even for more popular discontinued wallets nobody ever made fork that actually works and have updates.

First, the Tangem app is open source software. This means that even if the Tangem company were to shut down, the community could audit, fork, and maintain the app independently.
I don't care if app is open source if it is crap, and if it is combioned with closed source firmware junk.
You don't mix pure water and mud expecting it stay clean.

Therefore, if Tangem company were to shut down, the cards would continue to function as intended.
No they won't, and I predict you will see that in near future.
They simply can't compete with open source alternative like Satochip and Keacard.


Title: Re: TANGEM WALLET: An Innovative Seedles Cold Wallet Setup
Post by: satscraper on June 26, 2025, 06:11:45 PM
I don't care if app is open source if it is crap, and if it is combioned with closed source firmware junk.

Then I may assume that you equally don't care about Visa and Mastercard credit cards because they also rely on proprietary and closed source firmware. Did you ever use bank cards? If yes, then you are inconsistent.

No they won't, and I predict you will see that in near future.
They simply can't compete with open source alternative like Satochip and Keacard.

You probably meant Keycard.

Regarding open source alternatives. I think your should be cautious about saying "can't." For instance, Windows isclosed source OS, yet it has successfully competed with Linux, which is open source. I have a few machines, some running Ubuntu and others running Windows. Capable hands can cope with any OS ;).

And after all, I’ve addressed the technical matters, but it seems like you want tp transfer it into belief plane rather than argue substantively.



Title: Re: TANGEM WALLET: An Innovative Seedles Cold Wallet Setup
Post by: Pmalek on June 28, 2025, 07:19:12 AM
Even Electrum mobile has a weird concept that can be considered as coin control. They allow you to freeze coins and addresses, leaving the one/ones you want to pay from unfrozen. Like I said, a weird way to implement coin control.
That exist on Electrum desktop version also, but I don't see anything wrong with that.
Electrum for desktop has proper coin control, allowing you to pick which coins to spend from and no one ever has to use the freezing option unless they want to. Electrum on mobile doesn't. If I have 10 UTXOs on my mobile Electrum app and I wish to spend from one, I have to freeze the remaining nine. On the desktop version I just spend the one I want to. That's why it's an unusual and weird solution. It's not weird to have a freeze option. It's weird that it's the only way to use coin control.

For instance, Windows is closed source OS, yet it has successfully competed with Linux, which is open source.
That might not be the right way to put it. Despite someone's feelings towards Windows, the reality is that Windows has a much bigger market share than all other OSs combined. So it's not Windows that is competing with others, it's open-source alternatives that are successfully or unsuccessfully competing with Windows when it comes to taking their piece of the pie and userbase.


Title: Re: TANGEM WALLET: An Innovative Seedles Cold Wallet Setup
Post by: satscraper on June 28, 2025, 10:22:54 AM

For instance, Windows is closed source OS, yet it has successfully competed with Linux, which is open source.
That might not be the right way to put it. Despite someone's feelings towards Windows, the reality is that Windows has a much bigger market share than all other OSs combined. So it's not Windows that is competing with others, it's open-source alternatives that are successfully or unsuccessfully competing with Windows when it comes to taking their piece of the pie and userbase.

Agreed. This is open source Linux that is trying to compete with closed source Windows, rather than the other way around. In general, I find it a bit unreasonable to be completely obsessed with the idea of open source without considering other important factors, just because the fact that software is open source, doesn't automatically make it superior. Open source projects can be just as buggy as closed source ones. For example Linux and Electrum had also their issues.


Title: Re: TANGEM WALLET: An Innovative Seedles Cold Wallet Setup
Post by: Kagaru on June 29, 2025, 08:11:33 PM
I think those who romanticize open source as something that is always better by default are not wrong, yet, one should remember that it all comes down to how a particular software is built and maintained as well as supported, so that always one might be able to testify to the superiority of open source. open source allows great freedom and this is great bearing in mind that this offers a lot of transparency but this does not always offer the best user experience particularly to the ordinary user who simply wants to everything to work well. Windows took the stage due to its ease and wide host compatibility and accessibility usability not due to its closed source nature. Well, both the models are strong, it is not a matter of one being better automatically.


Title: Re: TANGEM WALLET: An Innovative Seedles Cold Wallet Setup
Post by: satscraper on July 04, 2025, 10:56:50 AM
Michael Batuev, VP of Global Products at Tangem on 2025 Paris Blockchain WEEK:


Key notes: TangemPay will be launched this year, relevant app will allow users to manage multiple wallets, swaps, buying crypto with fiat, converting crypto to fiat, and more. Visa involved  transactions are authorized via a smart contract that ties to the cardholder’s data.



Title: Re: TANGEM WALLET: An Innovative Seedles Cold Wallet Setup
Post by: fillippone on July 05, 2025, 10:46:17 PM
Michael Batuev, VP of Global Products at Tangem on 2025 Paris Blockchain WEEK:


Key notes: TangemPay will be launched this year, relevant app will allow users to manage multiple wallets, swaps, buying crypto with fiat, converting crypto to fiat, and more. Visa involved  transactions are authorized via a smart contract that ties to the cardholder’s data.



I can't remember if we already stated that Tangem Pay has nothing to do with Tangem wallet. Completely different products, infrastructure, business line, target customer, and customer needs.
Only similarity: made by Tangem.


Title: Re: TANGEM WALLET: An Innovative Seedles Cold Wallet Setup
Post by: satscraper on July 06, 2025, 06:44:02 AM
Michael Batuev, VP of Global Products at Tangem on 2025 Paris Blockchain WEEK:


Key notes: TangemPay will be launched this year, relevant app will allow users to manage multiple wallets, swaps, buying crypto with fiat, converting crypto to fiat, and more. Visa involved  transactions are authorized via a smart contract that ties to the cardholder’s data.



I can't remember if we already stated that Tangem Play has nothing to do with Tangem wallet.


Sure, Play has nothing to do with Tangem wallet  ;D

Regarding Pay, Tangem CEO holds the opposite view.



The cards designed for POS payments i.e. utilizing Tangem Pay technique will generally differ from regular Tangem wallet cards, though they’ll share some basic elements.

As for the mobile app, it seems they’re simply enhancing it to support Visa-eligible cards. I’d expect both types of Tangem cards to use similar key generation and backup methods, despite their different purposes.





Title: Re: TANGEM WALLET: An Innovative Seedles Cold Wallet Setup
Post by: fillippone on July 06, 2025, 07:29:12 AM

Regarding Pay, Tangem CEO holds the opposite view.



My understanding of the situation, reading the above statement, confirm my toughs: Tangem Wallet is meant to interact directly with your funds and smart contracts.
Tangem pay adds a “Visa Layer” to it, but it will be done via a different card and app.
At least, this is my text comprehension.



Title: Re: TANGEM WALLET: An Innovative Seedles Cold Wallet Setup
Post by: satscraper on July 06, 2025, 11:38:24 AM

Regarding Pay, Tangem CEO holds the opposite view.



My understanding of the situation, reading the above statement, confirm my toughs: Tangem Wallet is meant to interact directly with your funds and smart contracts.
Tangem pay adds a “Visa Layer” to it, but it will be done via a different card and app.
At least, this is my text comprehension.



You got it right.

The slide in Michael Batuev presentation lists the main features of their app relevant to Tangem Wallet:

  • Order card
  • User onboarding
  • Activate card and wallet
  • Backup
  • Check balance
  • Transaction history
  • p2p payments
  • User authentication
  • Wallet management
  • Card management



Title: Re: TANGEM WALLET: An Innovative Seedles Cold Wallet Setup
Post by: Pmalek on July 06, 2025, 03:48:27 PM
I assume those will be physical VISA cards and not virtual cards. Either way, that surely means KYC, AML checks, SoF inquires, and you name it. I don't buy into the our cards will be self-custodial notion until I see the fine print. They are not going to allow anyone to deposit and pay whatever they want and there will surely be geographical and political restrictions to who can use it.

Not that long ago, the AQUA VISA card was being marketed as the next best thing. Turns out it's very restrictive with many countries banned from using it.


Title: Re: TANGEM WALLET: An Innovative Seedles Cold Wallet Setup
Post by: satscraper on July 06, 2025, 06:25:39 PM
I have found the latest Tangem's roadmap.

According to what it says users can expect that the long-awaited also by me personally multiple address support has to be implemented pretty soon. It's stated for some release in Q3 which has already begun. From my point of view such feature as 'Send via Swap' coming in July will also add points to Tangem.


P.S. The latest release of Tangem mobile app is5.25.0 (https://github.com/tangem/tangem-app-android/releases/tag/v5.25.0) which was dropped out 4 days ago.








Title: Re: TANGEM WALLET: An Innovative Seedles Cold Wallet Setup
Post by: CamilaStar on July 07, 2025, 10:24:25 AM
Michael Batuev, VP of Global Products at Tangem on 2025 Paris Blockchain WEEK:


Key notes: TangemPay will be launched this year, relevant app will allow users to manage multiple wallets, swaps, buying crypto with fiat, converting crypto to fiat, and more. Visa involved  transactions are authorized via a smart contract that ties to the cardholder’s data.



I can't remember if we already stated that Tangem Pay has nothing to do with Tangem wallet. Completely different products, infrastructure, business line, target customer, and customer needs.
Only similarity: made by Tangem.

Your actually right.
Tangem pay and tangem wallet are very separate products with their different purposes and audience This tangem wallet is actually a secure self custody solution for holding crypto, while the Tangem pay is mainly on fast, everyday payment.


Title: Re: TANGEM WALLET: An Innovative Seedles Cold Wallet Setup
Post by: babo on July 07, 2025, 03:39:19 PM
I assume those will be physical VISA cards and not virtual cards. Either way, that surely means KYC, AML checks, SoF inquires, and you name it. I don't buy into the our cards will be self-custodial notion until I see the fine print. They are not going to allow anyone to deposit and pay whatever they want and there will surely be geographical and political restrictions to who can use it.

Not that long ago, the AQUA VISA card was being marketed as the next best thing. Turns out it's very restrictive with many countries banned from using it.

exactly even if it is a very beautiful and very complex system, everything breaks down from that point of view, namely the KYC and AML check
having these becomes quite an exercise in style, since it takes little to be burned

It can have some use cases for sure, but it's not for me.. I tend to reject everything that is KYC now


Title: Re: TANGEM WALLET: An Innovative Seedles Cold Wallet Setup
Post by: satscraper on July 09, 2025, 12:35:14 PM

exactly even if it is a very beautiful and very complex system, everything breaks down from that point of view, namely the KYC and AML check
having these becomes quite an exercise in style, since it takes little to be burned

It can have some use cases for sure, but it's not for me.. I tend to reject everything that is KYC now

I use crypto cards like Wirex to pay at POS terminals, and I find it very convenient. All these cards need KYC, so using TangemPay cards that connect directly to my Tangem app doesn’t really make a difference for me. That said, people are different and all are free whether to have such option or not. I think TangemPay cards will find their customers.


Title: Re: TANGEM WALLET: An Innovative Seedles Cold Wallet Setup
Post by: Becassine on July 09, 2025, 10:52:12 PM
With the European travel rule, states want to track and identify BTC addresses, and that doesn't seem to bother the majority of people.

Despite everything, Binance is losing a few customers in Europe due to the numerous and improbable documents that the platform now requires. Tangem Pay will, of course, have an audience that isn't bothered by KYC because the ultimate goal of this audience is solely to make a profit. This audience isn't particularly interested in anything else, I think.

Some CBs linked to platforms have been banned in France because it's not easy to recover the 30% flat tax with people who pay with this type of card. TangemPay will certainly have difficulty establishing itself in France, unless Tangem sends the statements directly to the tax authorities and the tax authorities then inform the taxpayer of the amount to be paid. Some will undoubtedly be in for some surprises.


Title: Re: TANGEM WALLET: An Innovative Seedles Cold Wallet Setup
Post by: fillippone on July 10, 2025, 05:04:13 PM
I have found the latest Tangem's roadmap.

Just preventing some other user comment: it's 2025q3 and still no coin control.
It's a feature that I would like to be implemented, maybe activating some "expert mode" feature, not to clutter the UI for the beginners.


Title: Re: TANGEM WALLET: An Innovative Seedles Cold Wallet Setup
Post by: dkbit98 on July 10, 2025, 05:50:48 PM
Then I may assume that you equally don't care about Visa and Mastercard credit cards because they also rely on proprietary and closed source firmware. Did you ever use bank cards? If yes, then you are inconsistent.
::)
You are comparing bank cards for money that you don't own, system that is fully centralized, with bitcoin, decentralization and open source.
I don't use card payments much, and I prefer cash as better alternative.
You can't use open source for something that doesn't exist.

For instance, Windows isclosed source OS, yet it has successfully competed with Linux, which is open source.
Dumb comparison because wind0ws is older and it had monopoly for years.
They even forced PC manufacturers to allow only win0S to be installed on their devices.



Now back on topic, and reminder for everyone:
Tangem is closed source garbage so don't use it.

Go Satochip, Go Keycard and Go open source.


Title: Re: TANGEM WALLET: An Innovative Seedles Cold Wallet Setup
Post by: satscraper on July 11, 2025, 06:56:59 AM
I’d like to highlight one feature of Tangem that I personally find valuable, i.e.commission-free stablecoin swapping. This is made possible through the Changelly platform, which offers competitive market prices for nearly any coin or token you may want to exchange within Tangem. The swapping process is almost instant, making it a seamless experience without any hassle. I highly recommend this wallet for anyone looking for a reliable and convenient solution on the go.



P.S. Don't go to amateur solutions like Keycard.


Title: Re: TANGEM WALLET: An Innovative Seedles Cold Wallet Setup
Post by: babo on July 11, 2025, 07:03:56 AM

exactly even if it is a very beautiful and very complex system, everything breaks down from that point of view, namely the KYC and AML check
having these becomes quite an exercise in style, since it takes little to be burned

It can have some use cases for sure, but it's not for me.. I tend to reject everything that is KYC now

I use crypto cards like Wirex to pay at POS terminals, and I find it very convenient. All these cards need KYC, so using TangemPay cards that connect directly to my Tangem app doesn’t really make a difference for me. That said, people are different and all are free whether to have such option or not. I think TangemPay cards will find their customers.

clear clear
It also depends on which country in the world you live in. If you live in a country that heavily taxes capital gains, I don't think you'll find many supporters.
in any case it's an excellent service, nothing to say

I was just saying this because many people, like me, don't like to give out their personal data easily.


Title: Re: TANGEM WALLET: An Innovative Seedles Cold Wallet Setup
Post by: Pmalek on July 11, 2025, 03:23:49 PM
I’d like to highlight one feature of Tangem that I personally find valuable, i.e.commission-free stablecoin swapping. This is made possible through the Changelly platform
Commission-free swaps seem attractive at first but using a service like Changelly to do it through doesn't. Like ChangeNOW, those are selective scammers. They are legit enough to not be called complete scammers but love to hustle their users every now and then and when the spoils are worth the negative press. I would be very careful with them, and use them with small amounts only and as a last resort if there was no better service around for the same swap I needed to do.


Title: Re: TANGEM WALLET: An Innovative Seedles Cold Wallet Setup
Post by: fillippone on July 11, 2025, 09:40:16 PM
I’d like to highlight one feature of Tangem that I personally find valuable, i.e.commission-free stablecoin swapping. This is made possible through the Changelly platform
Commission-free swaps seem attractive at first but using a service like Changelly to do it through doesn't. Like ChangeNOW, those are selective scammers. They are legit enough to not be called complete scammers but love to hustle their users every now and then and when the spoils are worth the negative press. I would be very careful with them, and use them with small amounts only and as a last resort if there was no better service around for the same swap I needed to do.

It always depends on the feature required by the wallet.
I wouldn’t find this useful, as I don’t use the token swapping inside the wallet.
Also, the more you use that wallet, the more you understand which feature are Uruk for your particular seeeeer


Title: Re: TANGEM WALLET: An Innovative Seedles Cold Wallet Setup
Post by: satscraper on July 12, 2025, 05:44:06 AM
I’d like to highlight one feature of Tangem that I personally find valuable, i.e.commission-free stablecoin swapping. This is made possible through the Changelly platform
Commission-free swaps seem attractive at first but using a service like Changelly to do it through doesn't. Like ChangeNOW, those are selective scammers. They are legit enough to not be called complete scammers but love to hustle their users every now and then and when the spoils are worth the negative press. I would be very careful with them, and use them with small amounts only and as a last resort if there was no better service around for the same swap I needed to do.

Wow, thanks for warning. I didn’t know about this. I’ve used Tangem’s built-in swapping feature a few times and everything went smoothly those times, so I thought the services they use were quite reliable. I didn’t swap large amount no more than $100 but now I’ll definitely think twice before doing it again. It might be better to not paying attention on zero commissions they offer and just use external exchange services instead.



Title: Re: TANGEM WALLET: An Innovative Seedles Cold Wallet Setup
Post by: babo on July 12, 2025, 07:45:57 AM
I’d like to highlight one feature of Tangem that I personally find valuable, i.e.commission-free stablecoin swapping. This is made possible through the Changelly platform
Commission-free swaps seem attractive at first but using a service like Changelly to do it through doesn't. Like ChangeNOW, those are selective scammers. They are legit enough to not be called complete scammers but love to hustle their users every now and then and when the spoils are worth the negative press. I would be very careful with them, and use them with small amounts only and as a last resort if there was no better service around for the same swap I needed to do.

Thanks for the heads up. I was always afraid these people might be this smart. Or pretend to be smart.
I don't take any risks because I don't have large amounts, but I've always asked myself the question: if someone were to exchange, I don't know, 10 bitcoins, would they still do the exchange?
You answered me.


Title: Re: TANGEM WALLET: An Innovative Seedles Cold Wallet Setup
Post by: libert19 on July 22, 2025, 07:37:07 AM
^ You talk of 10 Bitcoins, meanwhile I can't trust these instant exchanges even with single exchange of 10k usd.

I’d like to highlight one feature of Tangem that I personally find valuable, i.e.commission-free stablecoin swapping. This is made possible through the Changelly platform
Commission-free swaps seem attractive at first but using a service like Changelly to do it through doesn't. Like ChangeNOW, those are selective scammers. They are legit enough to not be called complete scammers but love to hustle their users every now and then and when the spoils are worth the negative press. I would be very careful with them, and use them with small amounts only and as a last resort if there was no better service around for the same swap I needed to do.
Wow, thanks for warning. I didn’t know about this. I’ve used Tangem’s built-in swapping feature a few times and everything went smoothly those times, so I thought the services they use were quite reliable. I didn’t swap large amount no more than $100 but now I’ll definitely think twice before doing it again. It might be better to not paying attention on zero commissions they offer and just use external exchange services instead.

Nothing should happen with hundred dollars or even few thousand I guess, as Pmalek said — spoils must be worth negative press — they would not want to ruin their name for little amounts.


Title: Re: TANGEM WALLET: An Innovative Seedles Cold Wallet Setup
Post by: satscraper on July 23, 2025, 08:41:38 AM
^ You talk of 10 Bitcoins, meanwhile I can't trust these instant exchanges even with single exchange of 10k usd.

I’d like to highlight one feature of Tangem that I personally find valuable, i.e.commission-free stablecoin swapping. This is made possible through the Changelly platform
Commission-free swaps seem attractive at first but using a service like Changelly to do it through doesn't. Like ChangeNOW, those are selective scammers. They are legit enough to not be called complete scammers but love to hustle their users every now and then and when the spoils are worth the negative press. I would be very careful with them, and use them with small amounts only and as a last resort if there was no better service around for the same swap I needed to do.
Wow, thanks for warning. I didn’t know about this. I’ve used Tangem’s built-in swapping feature a few times and everything went smoothly those times, so I thought the services they use were quite reliable. I didn’t swap large amount no more than $100 but now I’ll definitely think twice before doing it again. It might be better to not paying attention on zero commissions they offer and just use external exchange services instead.

Nothing should happen with hundred dollars or even few thousand I guess, as Pmalek said — spoils must be worth negative press — they would not want to ruin their name for little amounts.

Agreed. That's why I'm swapping no more than a couple of hundred at a time. I know Tangem isn't the only wallet that relies on Changelly many online exchanges also use its swapping service. Even some crypto card providers depend on it, so any loss of reputation would be extremely costly for Changelly's business.

BTW, Tangem allows to select a few other services at swapping. ;)

 


Title: Re: TANGEM WALLET: An Innovative Seedles Cold Wallet Setup
Post by: fillippone on September 08, 2025, 10:10:21 PM
According to Tangem's CTO, the TANGEM WALLET is safe from the latest Supply Chain attack:

https://talkimg.com/images/2025/09/08/UnKd1C.png (https://x.com/lazutkinandrew/status/1965164771751461055?s=61)


Discover more here:

Ledger CTO warns of a potential mass attack taking place (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5558478.msg65785095#msg65785095)


Title: Re: TANGEM WALLET: An Innovative Seedles Cold Wallet Setup
Post by: babo on September 09, 2025, 01:33:09 PM
the incredible thing is how many packages are involved and above all how much time it took them to set this thing up
This is why the open source world needs those who benefit and profit from it to get some money back.

It seems to me like the problem that arose months ago with libxz which introduced a backdoor, because they are few and voluntary and nobody puts money into it


Title: Re: TANGEM WALLET: An Innovative Seedles Cold Wallet Setup
Post by: dkbit98 on September 09, 2025, 08:29:44 PM
According to Tangem's CTO, the TANGEM WALLET is safe from the latest Supply Chain attack
Andrey Lazutkin is basically saying Trust Me Bro to his customers, just like they trusted him when keys got leaked over their tangem app ::)
It's interesting to see how closed source devices are one the first to say that everything is fine and they are not affected.


Title: Re: TANGEM WALLET: An Innovative Seedles Cold Wallet Setup
Post by: satscraper on September 10, 2025, 12:28:57 PM
According to Tangem's CTO, the TANGEM WALLET is safe from the latest Supply Chain attack:

https://talkimg.com/images/2025/09/08/UnKd1C.png (https://x.com/lazutkinandrew/status/1965164771751461055?s=61)


Discover more here:

Ledger CTO warns of a potential mass attack taking place (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5558478.msg65785095#msg65785095)

I believe hackers do not use constant addresses and tend to change them frequently. Because of this Blockaid's database might struggle to keep the pace with hackers' addresses which leads me to assume that connecting to Web3 wallets via Tangem's WalletConnect may still not be entirely safe. As for Tangem's own services, I believe they are safe, primarily because they don't rely on JavaScript frameworks.


Title: Re: TANGEM WALLET: An Innovative Seedles Cold Wallet Setup
Post by: fillippone on September 10, 2025, 09:02:53 PM

I believe hackers do not use constant addresses and tend to change them frequently.

In this specific case, the address list was hardcoded in the libraries: the program then selected the address best matching the original one to deceive the user in using a visually similar, but diffrent address.


Title: Re: TANGEM WALLET: An Innovative Seedles Cold Wallet Setup
Post by: satscraper on September 11, 2025, 05:57:39 AM

I believe hackers do not use constant addresses and tend to change them frequently.

In this specific case, the address list was hardcoded in the libraries: the program then selected the address best matching the original one to deceive the user in using a visually similar, but diffrent address.

I understand that, but my remark was more general, i.e. relying on third party like Blockaid is the weak point for the Tangem as well as it is for any hardware wallet without its own display. Even if Blockaid’s techniques helped in this specific case, that doesn’t guarantee it will protect users in all situations. That’s why I never use WalletConnect when working with my Tangem.


Title: Re: TANGEM WALLET: An Innovative Seedles Cold Wallet Setup
Post by: dkbit98 on September 17, 2025, 04:13:03 PM
Here we go, another proof that Tangem wallet is NOT SAFE to use, and it is vulnerable to brute force attacks.
Donjon team tested this and they provided plenty of information in their latest blog articles.
Weak 4 digit PIN is very easy to crack, so donjon team is recommending switching to stronger 8 digit PIN with 1 digit, 1 letter and 1 symbol.
For more information read the full article:
https://www.ledger.com/blog-brute-force-attack-tangem

PS
I would also remind everyone that Tangem is closed source, so they should switch to opensource alternatives like Satochip.
Satochip in combination with Seedsigner is 100 times better option for hardware wallet, and encrypted seed backup.


Title: Re: TANGEM WALLET: An Innovative Seedles Cold Wallet Setup
Post by: satscraper on September 18, 2025, 06:24:47 AM
Here we go, another proof that Tangem wallet is NOT SAFE to use, and it is vulnerable to brute force attacks.
Donjon team tested this and they provided plenty of information in their latest blog articles.
Weak 4 digit PIN is very easy to crack, so donjon team is recommending switching to stronger 8 digit PIN with 1 digit, 1 letter and 1 symbol.
For more information read the full article:
https://www.ledger.com/blog-brute-force-attack-tangem

PS
I would also remind everyone that Tangem is closed source, so they should switch to opensource alternatives like Satochip.
Satochip in combination with Seedsigner is 100 times better option for hardware wallet, and encrypted seed backup.

I had no doubt about that, even without Donjon team testers. Only the fools would choose 4-digit PIN for their hardware wallet. My Tamgem’s PIN is 12 digits long. :P Since I only use it for on-the-go operations and keep no more than few hundred EUR (in crypto) in it, I’m not too concerned about its closed-source nature. For larger sums I use Passport Core.


Title: Re: TANGEM WALLET: An Innovative Seedles Cold Wallet Setup
Post by: dkbit98 on September 18, 2025, 09:44:30 PM
I had no doubt about that, even without Donjon team testers. Only the fools would choose 4-digit PIN for their hardware wallet. My Tamgem’s PIN is 12 digits long. :P Since I only use it for on-the-go operations and keep no more than few hundred EUR (in crypto) in it, I’m not too concerned about its closed-source nature. For larger sums I use Passport Core.
You are an exception from the rule.
I could bet that majority of people are using 4 digit pins, and they are probably using something like their birth year or date, don't ask me how I know that ;)
Javacards are much safer option compared to tangem, they are already used in SIM cards, credit cards, Satochip, Keycard, etc.
  


Title: Re: TANGEM WALLET: An Innovative Seedles Cold Wallet Setup
Post by: fillippone on September 19, 2025, 06:25:39 PM
Here we go, another proof that Tangem wallet is NOT SAFE to use, and it is vulnerable to brute force attacks.
Donjon team tested this and they provided plenty of information in their latest blog articles.
Weak 4 digit PIN is very easy to crack, so donjon team is recommending switching to stronger 8 digit PIN with 1 digit, 1 letter and 1 symbol.

My pin is a combination of uppercase, number and symbol longer than 12 characters.
But I guess here, we just learned why a screen in a signing device is a non negotiable feature.

Rightly so, Tangem is suggested only for a few hundreds euros.