Bitcoin Forum

Hey guys, I'm slowly getting deeper into BTC privacy and I'd like to ask for honest feedback from experienced users:

Is it still worth using coin mixing services like Whirlpool, JoinMarket or Wasabi in 2025?

I understand the concept of UTXO hygiene, but I'm not sure if these tools still offer real benefits now that exchanges, blockchain analytics, and surveillance techniques are way more advanced.

Do you still use them? Or is it better to just use tools like Samourai + Stonewall + manual labeling?

Thanks in advance for your thoughts. 🙏

Yes, it makes sense to use mixing services.
As for the AML score of each of them, it is influenced by many factors, and there is no clear pattern. In essence, it is important how the service, to which you will later send your Bitcoin, checks your coins.

For example, you have Jambler's partners who will always deliver you Bitcoin with a very low AML risk score, because their coins come from mining pools or registered CEXs, so they are considered quite clean.

By the way, altcoin mixer services have started to appear lately, so if you prefer another currency, there are options for that as well.

Definitely mixing your coins makes sense, but it depends on which service you have been using. Because if you have been using CEX and that doesn't accept funds from the mixer, then you will be in trouble. If you don't need to use CEX, then you can use mixers. But keep in mind if you have to do any service where mixing is considered a crime, then it's better to avoid it. You may use a no-KYC exchange to protect your privacy instead of using a mixer.

I have not been using Mixer, so I don't know which Mixer offer clean coins. Coins would come from CEX and miners as well. So you must have to observe the mixers that are suitable for you. Because Binance froze my account due to deposits being linked with a mixer address. Though later they enabled withdrawal, they restricted me to using their exchange.

Yeah it does. Depending on the location you sending to and the source of the mixer (AML score)
Privacy shouldn't be taken for granted. And we have the right to protect our wealth and identity.

It doesn't make sense sending a mixed coin to a centralized exchange but you can to a non custodial wallet.

I think there are people that also make use of DEX too after using a mixer.
Though they are now implementing some compliance protocol so I would advice against such.
 
 

It still makes sense. But the problem with people, they mix coins and then send them back to a CEX that already has their identity details. So what's the point of mixing them if you are still going to send them back to a CEX?

If you are really privacy conscious, then avoid a CEX at all costs. Mix your coins, use DEXs and non-KYC P2P exchanges, and see how coin mixing makes complete sense even in 2025.

Mixing doesn't ensure 100% anonymity with bitcoin, it helps to break the connection with your address and receive coins from different source but government agencies wre going against the mixers even though it's not illegal to mix coins due to the reason like it's used to launder hacked funds on multiple occasions.

So the answer depends on who you want to hide it, if it's about government then mixing won't be enough but it helps with other use cases.

With all the regulations, KYC requirements, and ongoing privacy and security breaches, cutting your reliance on traditional financial transfers is a much better move in many ways, even if you don't immediately see or feel the benefits.

It depends on what you are using. It has been made legal (in the US) to use "privacy protocols" which are in other words, mixers without a central custodian (such as Tornado Cash which was precedent for this afaik). Using a mixer with a central custodian can pose potential flags on centralized exchanges and other services (depending on the service).

They make it much harder for anyone to trace your money on public blockchain protecting your financial privacy and making your Bitcoin more fungiblet. While no system is perfect against advanced tracking these services increase  cost and difficulty for those trying to spy on transactions making it low chances of succeed. It is not just about mixing. using wallets like Samourai with Stonewall and carefully managing Bitcoin (UTXOs) are also good. Many experienced users combine these methods and use other privacy tools like VPNs to keep transactions as private as possible.

I recall reading the same thing before that case happened, although it was ambiguous as far as I can remember. My impression was that the government won't jail anyone who uses or runs such a service as long as they implement sufficient KYC, which is basically against the core idea of a privacy tool. Has it changed recently? Then again, it will be useless if the OP is planning to use this with an exchange, because other regulations can still prompt exchanges to monitor their addresses aggressively.

Thanks to everyone for the thoughtful responses really appreciate the wide range of views. It's exactly the kind of nuanced feedback I hoped for when I lit the initial match here.


That said, I’m thinking about setting up a small experiment watching how different mixers’ UTXOs behave when they’re moved through public non-KYC services, or even when they sit idle. Just for curiosity. I’ve been tracking some wallets manually, but I'm considering a script that compares the "AML karma" of Whirlpool vs Wasabi vs JoinMarket outputs over time.


Would anyone here be interested in that kind of analysis? Or is it too niche?


Also, has anyone tried combining mixed outputs with multisig or OP_VAULT-like setups? Is that OPSEC overkill or just paranoid enough to matter?

Hi @RockBitNBlock

To stay private, mix your coins, then use non-KYC wallets, DEXs, or P2P platforms instead of centralized exchanges.

This kind of analysis is always welcome. Unfortunately, all mixers have been banned from this forum, which is an additional reason why there is less and less talk about this topic here. It was moved to the Altt forum, but it doesn't have nearly as much traffic as here.

Why not? If this could protect you privacy and you don't have any illegal intentions for using this kind of service then you are fine to do it.

But be careful choosing a mixer service since you can see this forum didn't eliminate those type of services to promote their platforms that's why it somehow hard to determine which of them are trusted and which is not.

So better deal with the amount you can afford to let go or do lots of research about what is the best mixer running to avoid getting a problem.

I would say there is a huge but silent demand for open source AML tools for this type of thing. After being burned once, you are quickly forced to engage in alternative methods such as using Monero instead. The risk of sending very badly tainted coins is simply too high with some types of mixers. This would be a very good project/tool.

I don't think that I have seen this.

The real people that need mixers don't make such grave mistakes as;

• Sending mixed coins to CEXs
• Sending mixed coins back to the wallet you sent to the mixer

Op is someone correct in the question he asked. Some people just needed DEX or no KYC  CEX and not mixers in some cases. But many goes to mixer, spends money on mixers and still mix their coins up or end up being in trouble.

I would advise that if you are having much mixed feelings about using mixers, then you can use more privacy features in non-custodial wallets like coinjoin which would assemble UTXOs from different people and form a single transaction that spends back to another address in your wallet. You can do it more than once to improve the chances of your anonymity.

I do not see the need spending back to a CEX when using privacy enhanced programs or features. since you want to maintain privacy, then it is important you make use of non-custodial wallets.

Coinjoin is a form of mixing. Whether the mixer is centralized or decentralized does not pose a difference in terms of whether an exchange will consider the coins high risk. Therefore, your advice does not provide any benefit. Actually a couple years ago there were complaints about this particular thing, people sending coins after coinjoin mixing and the exchanges blocked them.

Whether someone needs to use a CEX or not is not for you to decide. There may be many reasons why users need to do this and we should let them. We can only provide them with relevant information and alternatives, they can decide for themselves. As of 2025, sending coins from a mixer, coinjoin or anything of this kind directly to a CEX is very risky.

If I want to use mixing services, the only one that interest me is that which integrates altcoins such as Monero. I think is better to some extent since Monero have remained a privacy coin till date and will be very difficult to trace compared to mixing with only bitcoin. There are some mixers that have expanded their operations, just like you mentioned about Jambler's partners and I like how the use diverse means to ensure the bitcoin are clean as they are coming from different CEX.

It's a matter of personal preferences. It is certain that there are a lot of people who would appreciate it if they had the option of mixing Ethereum, Litecoin, Solana, etc...

I'm not sure how realistic it is to expect to have an XMR>XMR mixer when Monero already has a high level of privacy. If you mean BTC>XMR, it's no longer a mixer but an exchange, and there are services offered for that, like Trêvoid (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5544046.0;topicseen)

These reasons should answer your question, and they are:

1. The amount you are talking about
2. How the coins got into your hand
3. The purpose of mixing the coins

These factors vary among people, so mixing is still a priority for some people. But certainly not all, depending on their situation with respect to those factors.

As for Exchanges, they might be smart, but mixed coins still penetrate easily. Moving it further among addresses, and even exchanging with different coins among DEX, after the mixers have delivered the mixed coin to you, would make it even harder for exchanges. And don't forget, it's not all exchanges that mandate KYC, so you can do it with different accounts.

Even though it's not illegal? This sound like a war you can never win with you just saying it's not illegal when many people are using mixers to escape from getting caught.

OP is mixer banned in your country? I think this is the best question I can ask you, if it's banned then forget it because you could end up in trouble, you are the only one who knows why you are using mixer.

Don't forget, you are not completely off the radar, it covers your track but there are still some catch, don't use mixer for any crime related transactions, it won't help but yes you are free to use mixers in 2025.

That's right actually, and no I don't believe it has changed recently. I'm not aware of a protocol that achieves KYC whilst simultaneously providing privacy, however it is possible to do this with zk (zero knowledge) proofs, maybe the regulation was done by design to push this kind of creation as it would fit within the framework (that would deserve credit for being so forward thinking).


If this is relevant, a very recent change has revoked the broker rule/requirement for exchanges to provide extensive transaction data (https://www.ainvest.com/news/treasury-revokes-2024-crypto-broker-reporting-rule-easing-compliance-exchanges-2507/), which is a step in the right direction on that subject.

The question you asked is really important and I think there are person that don't care much about privacy.The  mixing tools you made mention of like whirlpool, joinmarket and wasabi are still being used by many but the most important is the method of usage or how we utilise then .despite how active and sharp Blockchain surveillance maybe, if we still know how to make use of this tool it will really help alot.So the tools you mention are very good if we know how to use them.Also I do make use of samourai, stonewall and I do avoid combining UTXOS.Infact it is important to use multiple tools.

Interesting if that was true. I'm fairly skeptical of the overall goal of such rules because they can change their tune and start banning protocols like that too. Hopefully, that won't happen in the future.

I didn't know that. Good to hear, I suppose, although I'm not sure other governments will follow that. I have only used my local exchanges since 2021, and I feel like they've gotten stricter with KYC requirements.

Some time ago, I saw news that sanctions against a mixer protocol had been lifted, and it will paving the way for similar protocols aimed at protecting user data and anonymizing transactions. So, I think it still makes sense to use mixing services in 2025.

Source: Indodax - US Legalize Bitcoin Mixer. (https://indodax.com/academy/as-legalkan-bitcoin-mixer/) (currently in Indonesia Language, we need to translate it to english manually)

However, I suggest you remain cautious in using it, as it also carries the risk of suspension or freezing of crypto assets (especially Bitcoin) if you wish to make further transfers to an exchange, as we know this is a possibility.

Samourai still functions in 2025? I thought they lost and closed down? I don't hrsr about them anymore since I lost some Bitcoin using their service, I was still very new to Bitcoin at the time and I sent some Bitcoin to an address but instead this wallet sent gas fee to the wallet address and kept the $200 as the main gas fee, this was how I lost everything.

I was using Electrum too so It was not my first time sending Bitcoin, how and why they use my balance as gas fee and credited the address with small tinny Bitcoin is unexplained till this day.

I've seen news online where people use 10 BTC to send half BTC, how and why they make such mistake remains a misery for me, maybe someone can explain to me why this happened.

Samurai whirlpool coordinator and website has been taken down, anything related to their service is shutdown. I will not advice anyone to use service like samurai for now, the government has put them on watch list, it's better to use other coinjoin protocols or mixers. That been said.

Another thing I will like to draw to your attention is Bitcoin transaction fee is not the same thing as gas fee, the term has fee is associated with Ethereum, there is nothing as such with Bitcoin. You can either use fee or transaction fee and not gas fee.



Are you sure that is not change address you were given because as far as I know about whirlpool, your output must be uniform unless you are using coinjoin and it's rare for you to receive an output that is smaller than what you gave them. Even if you pay fees, I don't really think that your output should be that small.
There is no way your coin can be stolen. You get what you put, it's either you get less of what you put after deduction of the fee or you get your output (after fee deduction) and a change.

The only way this can happen is perhap coin mixers, this can't happen in coinjoin or whirlpool unless if you are the one that made mistake and deposited less and use the remaining sats to pay fees, you paid more than what was required and everything went to the miners.

I believe that it was less by design and intention, and more by coincidence, though that's my speculation. Maybe someone informed had designed the framework with ZK proofs in mind, though I do believe it's unlikely.


Good to know you found the info useful :)

Unless something is clearly unanimous across the globe, I think that most governments wait to see if something forward-thinking works elsewhere before they introduce it into their own frameworks. In the case of your nation, it can be a case of the government generally being against bitcoin and cryptocurrency, thus implementing harsher/stricter regulations and not really caring about what other governments are doing. That aside, if other governments are bitcoin or crypto friendly, then I am sure that if they want to adopt similar regulations too, they will if it worked positively for another nation.

You are absolutely right. how we use privacy tools is key to their effectiveness. It is great you are using tools Samourai and Stonewall and that you are smart about things like not mixing your UTXOs. Even with advanced tracking on blockchain knowing how to properly use these tools and even using several of them together can still give you much of privacy by making it much harder to trace your funds.