Bitcoin Forum

It's just an idea, but I wanted to lay out the framework. The best way to describe it would be to walk you through the network.

* 1) Create an account. This is both a wallet and a profile.
* 2) Play chess against other people in the network.
* 3) Bet coins against your opponent.
* 4) To get coins, you can either buy them or mine them.
* 5) You can mine coins by playing chess.
* 6) Mining is based on proving you played a unique chess game, (proof-of-play?).
* 7) Winner of the game receives the mined coins (plus any bets placed).

Just thought it would be a fun thing to create, and maybe through mining we can solve the chess game-tree. Estimated at roughly 10^123.

On the surface it actually sounds kinda cool.  Could you really make it work or is it just a theory?

Wish I had the skills to do it... Its just a theory for now

i like the idea generally, but its super easy to cheat at online chess.

I second this.  Anyone can download a computer program that can make a move in a second that would beat 99% of players out there.

You will always have cheating in online chess.  :(

Although this likely could be constructed by having conventional mining going on alongside and giving part of the block reward to a chess prize pool(see huntercoin), the chess would end up as little more than a proof of bandwidth mining system. People would start by hooking up chess ais to the game, as even the ability to handle more games alone would yield better profits for even a bad ai over good human players, and since you mentioned unique games are needed, it would quickly degenerate to random moves being integrated, and possibly random moves only eventually as time goes on. The end result is the more bandwith one has available, the more games can be played, and therefore mining ability scales with bandwith.

There you go.
Make it cheat proof and you are really on to something.
I'll play...

A better idea is to organize a chess tournament with grandmasters and put up bitcoins for the prize money.  Can easily be done.

You'll see people doing multi-windows. Like in poker. Or multi-table.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-wicFd1Vmffg/UE806fxw-II/AAAAAAAAAKA/gtR2R7qGV98/s1600/internetinis-pokeris-504e1971a93e1.jpg

http://cdn.jimmakos.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/multi-monitor-setup-fail.png

'nice promotion'idea and not just chess,it would be fine if btc enters the entire sports field ....

This would actually work in person. But uhh.. so does cash. It will be quite some time before Bitcoin replaces cash for things like this.

elke is a freak

havad khan plays like 46 tables at once

Or you can just use chess bot and win every time.

It would be very hard to fight with cheaters.

This is nice idea but it is not 100% fair :)

as players might use so many tools to help their game to win :)

I am on it when it will be possible!

To stop cheating would be a big issue, especially with those chess bots available.

I'm not sure it's possible to eliminate cheating via chess engines, but as a chess fanatic, I would love to see some work on chess, perhaps as a distributed engine.

I'm not sure what you're aiming for. Getting a computer to enumerate possible chess games isn't hard; the problem is that there are so many of them. In particular, to prove that a given game is unique will, in general, require storing all the previous unique games, which will be prohibitively expensive.

If you are aiming for a proof-of-work scheme that involves humans doing the work, then that's quite an interesting idea, but chess isn't suitable because computers can do it better than humans can. Also, to resolve conflicts in a distributable system, you need a way to measure which block-chain has the largest proof-of-work, which means assessing how much effort went into the chess games.

As an aside, in John Varley's Titan SF trilogy, long-distance communication is done by singing to a special plant, that will relay the song to distant plants that will also sing it, provided the plants consider the song to be beautiful enough to repeat. With those plants you could maybe create a crypto-currency based around proof-of-beauty, that would be hard to forge because creating beauty is hard.

They can move computer steps in no time. It doesn't work, may be create some arcade or racing games, and they can win :)

Big fan of chess but online chess for money doesn't work as there are too many programs applications that just make you superior. You could do this with poker as there is a factor of randomness and unknown.

However I love the idea of the combination of crypto and chess. Wish you could come up with something.

good luck.

The internets are funny sometimes, I had almost this EXACT idea about a year ago, but stopped giving it thought due to the cheating issues that have been brought up. The ultimate goal of the program would be to create an extremely enhanced implementation of this:  http://www.engine-cloud.com/

The main difference in my concept for this implementation is that "mining" would be entirely based on Stockfish (integrated into the client) machine games, rather than human vs computer. Still, cheating would be an issue, though less so than human vs computer, unless you're Magnus Carlsen  ;)

As far as BTC's for tournament winnings, I believe the chess world would be very amenable toward this concept.

A chess engine would never suggest moves like those from this masterpiece of aesthetics and artistry:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immortal_Game

so to hack it, all i have to do is create computer opponents, and put all the money i create in a bank?

I really like the idea of integrating online games with bitcoin. As others have said, it absolutely needs to be cheat-proof, so chess is sort of out of the question. Also, why do you need to mine anything? Why not just place simple bets. If a user leaves, they lose.. (maybe add an hour timer in case they lost internet or want to 'come back' into the game because of an accident..)

Got any other game ideas?

5 computers and a Red Bull?
The most I would ever need would be 3 or 4.

Red bulls?

There is a way to circumnavigate around the cheating issue: Let 'em!

If Crypto-chess-coins is going to dole out coins based on some exponential growth system, then along with each game getting harder and harder to play, assuming one is playing against a computer which Ccc controls, Ccc will also control the clock as to how long it'll take before it makes its next move against each and every "miner". Thus, it doesn't matter how long it'll take for a miner to make s/he's move.

The onus will then be on the miners to obtain the best chess program available to garner more wins over time. At some point, when such is more difficult to obtain, more powerful chess programs will need to be created. Imagine, in the future ordering said programs/systems/rigs from Rook Labs or Bishop Studios or Knight Mills or Queens with Clubs.

Who knows! At the end of the day some über-chess program my be devised that wouldn't have been created earlier due to the advent of Crypto-chess-coins.

Now, one's able to envision Solitaire Coin, Backgammon Coin, or even Puzzle Coin, all pegged against a computer opponent with a dual difficulty component incorporated, adjusted depending on the payout schedule.

During the penning of the last paragraph, I envisioned something pertaining to Puzzle Coin, but I see that http://puzzlecoin.com/ is already taken, but from the looks of the site, it could easily be re-branded.

Picture sometime like below that has to be solved via moving the pieces into place, then rewarded once completed. See the beauty of the example? Advertiser's logos (with generated links once solved, then also emailed) are the puzzles.

http://www.mouserunner.net/firefox/games/Moz_Puzzles/previews/Fx_Puzzles_Preview_500.png

I agree!

It now becomes a contest of who can either write the best chess program and/or throw computing power at it.

One way is to use the chess scoring system, and the nodes accept the block created by the highest scoring address at the time.

Nodes can verify all games and scores quickly from the genesis game of course.

Any newcomer who is good can quickly rise to the top due to how the chess scoring works, but as they get near the top they need to beat the best continually to get the top score.

There are a lot of security things to be thought of e.g. shill players who lose on purpose to boost another players score.

There is no need to have difficulty adjustment because it is always as difficult as whoever is playing at the time. And there is an financial incentive for miners as with bitcoin so plenty of "hash power". Or should I say "horse power".

I'm a coder and be interested in helping develop something like this, a prototype at least.

Edit:

Man this is really interesting -E.g.  I just thought would you build a program to try and win all the time or not? Winning all the time would take more resources, so you play less games. Or do you play more games and win 90% of the time. Which would give you a higher score? So much scope for miners to think rather than just throw money at asics like you do with bitcoin. Infact asics would be a disadvantage because you can't change the algorithm when a better one comes out next week.

I was thinking of having 2 parts to mining.

* While your playing, transaction processing is running in the background using your CPU. (can it be limited to smartphones?)
* After the game is done, the network checks your game log against the games previously played. If your game is unique, you earn a coin.

So in essence you are always mining, but only get rewarded probabilistically (instead of probability and effort).

Betting on the other hand is something optional.

I'm up for coding this. Anyone want to help?

All for fun not profit of course  ;D

http://dreamproduction.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/GeekMeet-Timisoara-24h-Coding-Marathon-2010.jpg

Great idea! There are also other fun turn-by-turn games, that can "live" over blockchain like Huntercoin. HUC is little bit slow for action game, but something like chess, monopoly etc will perfectly fit!

If you had some software that could analyse skill level and then match players accordingly could that deal with cheaters? If there is software out there people can use to cheat then we must be able to analyse skill level too.

The major problem I can see with this idea is that people will simply use chess engines against one another and then it won't be a game of skill anymore - much rather a game of who has the best engine and access to large amounts of computational power. Would be nice to see Bitcoin integration with some other skill based games though.

Yes there are algorithms which can detect likelihood of cheating based on your rating.
They work great, but you can never prove 100% if someone is cheating or not,
and proof is required when money is involved and therefore I don't think it would help.

Like I said, let 'em cheat, but, in essence, there is no cheating because Ccc controls the clock. At the end of the game, a player is either rewarded with 0 Ccc due to a lose, 0.5 Ccc for a stalemate, or 1 Ccc for a win.

A player possessing a great chess program may be able to amass more wins, but due to how long it takes Ccc to make its next move, Ccc controls the payout schedule. After X blocks/games, the difficulty, read clock setting, is adjusted determined by how many players, how many wins, and/or other parameters.

For shits and giggles, a tally is kept on the main site to show how games were played to day, how many are in progress, along with total loses, wins, and stalemates (possibly, further broken down by countries).

Of course, at first the games are relatively easy to win, along with being played relatively quickly. But, as more and more blocks of wins occur, the games get more difficult to win, coupled with Ccc taking more time to make its next move.

Shortly, down the road, few will be physically playing the game, though that's always an option, dependent on moves taking ~1 minute or ~5+ minutes. Later, as the difficulty increases, 10/20/etc. minutes between moves become problematic, thus would already be in the bot-vs-bot stage.

Proof of Work, is a given with Ccc. Thus, no issues there.

No pre-mining/playing, with the exception of showing proof-of-concept prior to the official beta release.

I'm just thinking out loud, hoping to see Ccc come to fruition.

~Bruno Kucinskas

Or we can just add a CAPTCHA at the beginning of a game...

yup, quickly becomes computer chess.

It is however a (possibly) good way to incentivize creating technology to win chess games, mostly against other technology, if you think that is interesting. (In 2014, probably not.) Go might be better.

...Of which, is not a bad thing.

What if one were able to pick any completed game, picking some move round as either black or white, then resume play, either playing sans a bot or bot-vs-bot.

Or, what if a player picks some completed game that was lost, resuming play at some point where the score was relatively close (within some %, that is), and turns it into a win, thus enabling the player to earn 2 Ccc for h/his efforts.

If it still results in a lost, some future player can pick it up at the exact same point to see if s/he can turn it into a win to now earn 4 Ccc. Of course, each iteration would definitely take more time between moves.

Again, just thinking out loud, for I love this project.

~Bruno Kucinskas

ChessCoin would never work, even if it did work.  :D


Kasparov and Carlsen:
"What makes you think we have over 51% of the hashing power?"

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-j2ixQ7eZCiI/Un9E8fdsUAI/AAAAAAAAGXo/Af7A3kjhbwA/s1600/kasparovcarlsen.jpg

ChessCoin would never work, even if it did work.  :D


IBM:
"What makes you think we have over 51% of the hashing power?"

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/be/Deep_Blue.jpg


;D

it is possible to spot use of software (cheating). Read up on it. Cheating players need to be banned of course.
integrate ilo for players and allow only games between players of roughly the same strength and it will work. Nice idea.

No it won't work.  Cheating can't be proved, and you could always bet a larger amount on games where you cheat more.

I had the same idea recently. However i lack the skills of making it happen...I would support this idea however.

Cheating cannot be proved as there are so many ways to build a trailer / smthing....
You will spot one - they will create another ... this is how it works.

Hhmm... so how would the proof of work?

I've been thinking about this and it is quite difficult, but probably not impossible.\

If I am Kasparov, and you beat me at chess, I think that is good proof of work. If you lose, then it doesn't prove anything. So winning chess games should be linked to block creation.

You'd need a way to score players so that you know if someone beat a good player (= proof of work) or a bad or unknown player (= proof of nothing).

You'd need a way to prevent or discourage fake opponents too, that lose on purpose to give score to others.

I am thinking of something along the lines of pools of players.

Pool 1 has 10 players, Pool 2 has 100 players, Pool 3 has 1000 players etc.

And you get promoted or dropped down from pool to pool based on your play, with rewards going to winners in the higher pools.

But the details are not completed in my mind yet.