Bitcoin Forum

These other companies that have followed Michael Saylor's strategy that are also beginning to buy bitcoin to hold in their treasury to cause a pump on their company's stock, what does everyone speculate on this? Will this create another overinflated bubble that will pop and cause bitcoin to dump similar to the bubble pops before?

There is a hedgefund manager who has lost money from his hedgefund's investments who is presently creating a treasury company. I am very much aware that this is for an altcoin, however, this can also be created for bitcoin and the argument is similar. Will this be the next big bubble pop?



Joe McCann, the founder and CEO of crypto hedge fund Asymmetric Financial, is set to become the CEO of a new Solana (SOL) crypto treasury company called Accelerate according to pitch documents seen by Unchained.

The firm intends to go public via a SPAC with the blank check vehicle Gores X Holding.

For McCann, news of this new venture comes at an awkward time, as he has been the talk of the crypto industry over the last day because of reports that Asymmetric’s liquid fund is down 80% so far this year. The broader crypto market is up by almost $600 billion year to date and bitcoin itself set an all-time high above $123,000 last week.

Read in full https://unchainedcrypto.com/new-solana-treasury-company-raising-1-5-billion-to-be-led-by-joe-mccann/

Well isn't it what the historical logs of Bitcoin shows? I mean it's a speculated asset for all we know, and then we will have the bear (market is down) and the bull run (price is pumping). Same story with altcoins although we have seen that it has decoupled already with Bitcoin so who knows what's going to happen for them in the long run. But for Bitcoin market, the only thought we have is that we might see super-cycle. But for me it will still be the same pattern or cycle, we will have a huge bull run every 4 years. Supply is going to dwindle overtime and so there will be a race for us and those hedge fund companies to get as much as they can. And as what Saylor preach, just continue to accumulate, the longer the bigger and then HODL. So bubble pops and then the a new cycle begins. Unlike the tulip bubble centuries ago, when it pop, it didn't have the chance to recover because of the circumstances.

Bitcoin would have to take a huge pullback to get Michael Saylor to liquidate his positions but with these other companies it might not be possible. They are buying near the top and if it peaks and they are forced to liquidate it can cause a huge liquidation event kind of like Mtgox 2014, November 2018, Covid 2020, or FTX 2022 bankruptcy.

With Bitcoin there is always something to pop the bubble. Who knows, in 2026 it might be all these companies creating these treasury companies. I don't know how the rules are exactly and when and if they would need to liquidate their crypto however it doesnt seem like a safe investment to keep stocks in those companies when it starts to crack.

It seems unbelievable that you have been a member of this forum for so long. There would be a bubble if bitcoin were worthless. You think bitcoin is worthless? On the other hand you don't seem to understand how bitcoin treasury companies work.

I think bitcoin can never undergo a bubble pop because of bitcoin volatility and total decentralization. I think we need to understand what Bubble pop does before we correlate it with bitcoin, this is act is when a coin suddenly or rapidly pumps up due to hype and then dumps immediately. Bitcoin cannot have a bubble pop because bitcoin price pump isn’t base on hype but rather on real demand through utility and adoption.

Bitcoin volatility has continued to be more stable to such a place where it cannot dump to some certain price again. Most of this coins that experience bubble pops are those that usually are just centralized like the coin is been held more by few investors, this coins you will see one holder holding more than 5% of the coin and when they sell it affects the price or bubble pop happens when everyone sells after the hype dies down.

In all of this cases bitcoin doesn’t have any of these reason to have bubble pop, no single holder has more than 10% holding of the coin, investors can not sell at the same Time as most have even embark on holding for a very long time. In most bearish market bitcoin can realistically only fall like 65% down and this is if it is accompanied with bad fundamentals

So yes bitcoin cannot go through Bubble pop

I am also very surprised with bbc.reporter for this kind of topic. I read this link but I do not know how it is even related to bitcoin and what he is talking about. I mean this in total and the link:


What I know is that bitcoin is not a bubble at all, it is an asset and it is the best performing asset since 16 years ago.

600,000/20,000,000=0.03 so your 1 percent is off as 3 percent is 3x 1 percent.

and Mike Saylor has 3%

My bad the calculations was off, I wanted to write 10% because even Satoshi had more than that with approximately 5% plus as his holdings

I'm also convinced that Bitcoin is not a bubble; it never has been, and it never will be.
This may happen to some altcoins whose market value has inflated far beyond their intrinsic value, but I don't see this example applying to Bitcoin.
Bitcoin is an asset with real value and grows over time. Also, don't forget that Bitcoin is inflation-resistant due to its limited supply.

Robert Kiyosaki predicted that Bitcoin was a bubble and would burst a long time ago, but he has so far failed.

It also very much is unbelievable that you do not understand what are market bubbles or you cannot believe that market bubbles will be an occurrence on very speculative markets similar to bitcoin. Considering that a -70% or more dump from the top that has occurred already 3 times on bitcoin is not a bubble pop? This would be very headshaking if you say this, I reckon.

https://i.ibb.co/Xf7CKqkJ/image.jpg

In any case, it appears that there are people replying in this thread do not know what is a market bubble and it also appear they define a bubble as something similar to a ponzi.

You are getting it wrong. We are no more in 2016 or when you are talking about. If bitcoin is $120000 and you think it will get to $36000 which is 70% of it value taken? I do not think so.

But what if bitcoin get to $36000 again? That does not take its increasing value nature away. Bitcoin will later get to all time high again and again which makes it not to be a bubble pop.

Refer to altcoins when you are talking about bubble pop. It is altcoins that would be pumped, get dumped and not get to all time high again. That makes altcoins bubble pop.

@_act_. It appears that you also do not understand the definition of a market bubble and you also have not understood what was written in my original post or what this implies. Your arguments are incorrect because your thoughts on what is being argued is wrong.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9C61bjGk4k

Pop!  8)

Been hearing about this since I've entered newly to the market. Many did said that bitcoin's a bubble and when it bursts, it will never get back again.

Did it bursts? is it a bubble? these people will never stop in saying that and they'll have hard time to accept that it's growing naturally and isn't in a bubble. The house and real estate is.

That guy just trying want people to go in panic so that he can buy more. He's more known into silver and bitcoin and that's why if he's saying that bitcoin might burst, it's due to his own personal agenda for wanting to buy more.

https://www.talkimg.com/images/2025/07/26/UHU0tD.jpeg


Judging by the responses in the thread, I'm not exactly the one saying unbelievable things. FYI, for years it wouldn't be the first time I've talked in this forum about the difference between a bubble as a Ponzi scheme and a bubble as an overheated market that values assets well above their objective value.

If the "Bitcoin treasury companies" get overleveraged and finance bitcoin purchases through debt, then it poses a risk to the entire market that when the price goes south and reaches a certain level, those companies will be forced to sell. And when they do a mass sell-off, the price would go even lower, triggering another liquidations.
So I'm not a big fan of such companies getting too much share in the market, and that's what their strategy essentially is, i.e. keep buying bitcoins, so the price keeps going up, so their assets value increases so they can raise/borrow more funds to buy more bitcoins.
If this model doesn't collapse, in a long enough time scale, such entities will be holding the vast majority of bitcoins in existence (excluding lost coins etc), while the "normal" users will only have a small fraction of the supply left for them. It sounds like a good news for the price at first, but do we really expect people to trust a coin which value can drop overnight by over 90% if the shareholders of one of such companies decide (or are forced) to sell? Or if they get hacked etc?

So for those who are into bitcoin for a short or medium-term profits, companies with such business model are very good news, but for long-term holders or those who are into Bitcoin for more than just a quick financial gain - not so much.

nope once the bubble bursts that the end of what is in question.

BTC would no longer be an investment option

btc is not and has not had a bubble burst.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDjFE0SrBU0

above happened is what happened to tulips as an investment product.

 not btc.


by the way if it does happen to btc it would be if someone invents a new math yet to exist that can solve sha-256 as if it is magic.

It appears there are still people who have not understood what is the definition of a market bubble and also arguing that because bitcoin has reached some acceptance from the government and from traditional finance then it will not die. I am sorry, however, on a very long time horizon our society including bitcoin might not exist and it might be studied as another bubble, the other definition, similar to the South Sea bubble on 1720.

It is very headshaking that humans are very arrogant and have forgotten the realities of life. In any case, the definition of bubble I am using is a market bubble only where they form on bull markers causing prices to be unsustainable. But according to this article it might not occur this year.



Bitcoin price has long followed a familiar rhythm: every four years, a halving slashes the new supply of coins, setting off a bull run. Then, when the price gets too frothy and sentiment a pinch too euphoric, traders take profit and the price nosedives into a bear market.

That playbook is now dead, according to Matt Hougan, chief investment officer at Bitwise.

“The forces that have created prior four-year cycles are weaker,” Hougan said on X on Friday. “The halving is half as important every four years, the interest rate cycle is positive for crypto, and blow-up risk has attenuated.”

For Hougan, the structural forces behind Bitcoin’s classic boom-and-bust cycles — like the halving’s impact on supply — are weakening. Meanwhile, a new macro and regulatory environment is working in Bitcoin’s favour.

Read in full https://www.dlnews.com/articles/markets/experts-explain-how-bitcoin-price-cycle-is-changing/

Thats not a bubble pop in Bitcoin but a premium failure in the companies who buy BTC and hope to gain more in stock valuation then they just purchased on the Bitcoin.   For as long as that worked, its a great strategy and when it doesnt it will stop.

Thats not to say that the Bitcoin itself was only rising from companies buying it for holding.  Its just a normal dynamic that when one company finds some advantage others will compete with that method whatever it might be.   
  So I dont think BTC suffers greatly but it might lead to some weakness if previous buying or speculative holding of this type were to unwind, I dont believe thats been the majority or only buying this year so far as I know.   I generally rate the consumer the average public non commercial user as the main driver of the market overall.

Of course, don't let reality spoil your anti-capitalist prejudices. Strategy's debt is not convertible to bitcoin, so what you're saying is nonsense, besides the fact that it fluctuates between 15 and 20%, which is a very healthy ratio under financial standards. Another thing you'd have to explain is how, in the previous bear market with a 75% decline and debt convertible into bitcoin, Strategy didn't sell a single bitcoin, but you say so much nonsense based on prejudice that I'm sure you're not going to let reality debunk it.


Sure, you keep doing your thing.

I love that the Bitcoin price dropping to $115K is now considered the bubble popping. We were just at $77K a few months ago and at $17K a few years ago. I think a lot of folks need to zoom out and understand what is happening. The Dollar is falling apart and melting into a pool of tears in slow motion for the world to see.

That's it and it will be a sad moment for them if they will witness that day when Bitcoin reaches that price and, they'll finally say that they give up.

I am imagining that this is going to be the reaction when that time and price come.

https://media.tenor.com/1B8vjIqzmtEAAAAe/say-the-line-bart.png

They cannot say that again when it's proven and Bitcoin speaks for itself at that time.

language matters

it will retreat a lot from the peak

I 100% believe that.

My definition is when a bubble burst it is done kaput and over with.


You are saying a bursting bubble is the down point in the 4 year cycle

btw so far if you go out ten years it is ever upward

so using a 10 year viewpoint their is no 4 year cycle.




below  from my other posting in a different section





"every 10 year viewpoint the gains are huge."

so based on a 10 year viewpoint BTC has always been in a bull market

find me any day since day one that ten years later BTC has not whaled or bulled

It depends on how they're all going about buying Bitcoin, are they also buying it in accumulation stages or are they buying to pump the market with their big purchase because I think time will come when this companies will begin to make their purchase more publicly because they want to affect the market. Not everybody is going to come with a genuine mindset to the market and that's why what they're doing might become a problem later. The institutional investors are gaining lots of market shares and soon they'll be having more control than they should be having because the market still has lots of influencing from public images like companies and individuals.

Hehehee if you read my original post, there was no declaration or argument that the present price is a market bubble already. I was only asking for everyone's speculations and thoughts that because there are more companies from traditional finance that are following Michael Saylor's strategy, I only asked will this cause much hype on bitcoin and the cryptospace which will also cause a big pump creating an overinflated bubble? My other question was will this be the cause of another big dump similar to what we have witnessed before on 2021 and on 2017?

This was the original post. Everyone should read this before getting triggered hehe.



These other companies that have followed Michael Saylor's strategy that are also beginning to buy bitcoin to hold in their treasury to cause a pump on their company's stock, what does everyone speculate on this? Will this create another overinflated bubble that will pop and cause bitcoin to dump similar to the bubble pops before?

There is a hedgefund manager who has lost money from his hedgefund's investments who is presently creating a treasury company. I am very much aware that this is for an altcoin, however, this can also be created for bitcoin and the argument is similar. Will this be the next big bubble pop?

Bubble is a shit term that attracts a lot of attention.

For me and many bubble means the tulip craze and once burst it never recovered.

So using bubble as a title will certainly trigger me.

My question to you is will Bitcoin beat the dow jones ten year hodl always turns profit.

The dow jones industrial index had a fifty year streak of ten year hodl always makes money.

So far Btc has a streak of 2009 to 2025 july  every day you buy tens year later a profit was made.

It is a six year win streak can we reach 50:years like the dow did.

What was the precious bubble that popped? Don't get me wrong but your post may be perceived as saying that Bitcoin is a bubble which I don't think is right. Obviously, you are saying that companies leverage on Bitcoin for the growth of their shares, if that be the case, has there been any company that ran into problem through this approach thereby justifying your use of the word bubble?

well 2013 Nov peak it offloaded and took months to down way down to under 200
and  2017 Dec peak if offloaded and took months to go under 4000
and 2021 double peak it then off loaded and took a long Time to go under 16,000


the tulip bubble https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulip_mania

1 bulb may have sold for


Basket of goods allegedly exchanged for a single bulb of the Viceroy

all of the below
Item   Value


Two lasts of wheat   448ƒ
Four lasts of rye   558ƒ
Four fat oxen   480ƒ
Eight fat swine   240ƒ
Twelve fat sheep   120ƒ
Two hogsheads of wine   70ƒ
Four tuns of beer   32ƒ
Two tuns of butter   192ƒ
1,000 lbs. of cheese   120ƒ
A complete bed   100ƒ
A suit of clothes   80ƒ
A silver drinking cup   60ƒ


Total   2500ƒ

above from wiki


this is a maybe and if it did happen this price never recovered to that height


anyone comparing BTC 'bubble' to tulip bubble should have "I am a moron" tattooed all over their body

BTC is a tool used to distribute power use world wide via mining.

So what is that worth ?

Well electric power has value.

And moving it around and making sure it is nowtshunted into nothing has value.

Think water fall power
Think solar power
Think wind power
Think nuclear reactor power

all of them you do not shut down when no one needs a/c

and btc allows that excess power to be used.


what is it worth to the world well right now over 117k a btc.

Tulips never had that use so tulips never recovered in price.


Now do you want to argue BTC is over valued in terms of its true value maybe maybe not.

Do you want to say BTC has more used value than a power switch that makes money okay.

Calling it a bubble is well over used, its slang and misattributed because the analogy does not fit.  Very common, far more maybe a decade ago was constant mentions of ponzi scheme and it has to be this or pyramid was a trigger word again its basically slang that people get stuck on.

It appears that my mistake on this is not making it very much clear that I am implying a market bubble only. I never said bitcoin is worthless.

I will change the title hehehhe.

Also, the question I want to ask everyone is will these new digital asset treasuries that we are presently witnessing become the next much hyped storyline that will cause a market bubble where the people will be caught again buying during a market bubble pop?

its a trigger word. as was shown in this thread.


BTC 10 year hodl method still perfect and always up

frankly the question we all could use an answer to is:  how long does the 10 year hodl = always make profit = true?

Sincerely for decades now bitcoin is never worthless and if this comments is going directly to altcoin then that could have been a separate talk altogether than referring to bitcoin as something worthless, of course it's so shameful for a member of this forum who has spent years over here to still believe and have the fate that bitcoin is worthless. Check from historical data they would understand that bitcoin is never worthless has proven beyond every reasonable doubt about other investment when comparing ROI to others such as Gold many more.

I think the type of accumulation doesn't matter but it should be about the type of sell-offs. If it is in gradual process only then the it won't cause like a bubble that has been popped off but it is only if the sell-off is instant. We always see it in the headlines when a big company buys or sells but if according only on what is written above by @bbc.reporter, then market is not their priority. Their actions can still affect the market.

There is no rule on how much BTC one can own and we must not worry about them having more, I mean they surely can struggle because the more they buy, the more the price also increases. Also not all are willing to sell their BTC's to them easily.

I reckon another reason for people being triggered by bubble pop might be because they might have begun using much leverage on their trades and the pump has not been very much similar to the pumps on 2017 and 2021 as I have argued with @pooya87 before.

The aggregate open interest can be observed on Coinalyze. It is presently in an all time high. It can be speculated that the market is beginning to be overleveraged.

https://coinalyze.net/bitcoin/open-interest/

Yeah, I completely reject the tulip‑mania comparison. We cant say Bitcoin a flower, it is the global value network that is driven through energy, utility and decentralization. Tulips had null utility,, in Bitcoin, there is both secured digital scarcity, carrier of settlement, and renewable grids get incentivized by devouring surplus power produced through wind, solar, and hydro plants, which would otherwise go to waste. Tulips crumbled where Bitcoin has gone through several cycles of $100 K. When people compare Bitcoin to tulip bulbs, it is easy to see that they neither understand what money is nor about power or innovation, let alone the protocol that will outlast speculative florals.

@₿itcoin. Agreed on rejecting the Tulip mania comparison, however, who has implied that this thread is about Tulip mania? This thread is about speculating when the present market will become over inflated and when this will begin to dump.

I was making a speculation that this might begin when many of these companies in Wall Street will follow Michael Saylor and make their companies become digital asset treasuries with a different mandate. Michael Saylor's mandate is to buy and never sell bitcoin. However, what are these other companies mandates? We cannot be quite certain if they will be something similar to Michael Saylor and Microstrategy.

There are also other digiital asset treasuries that have spread to begin buying altcoins. This Tom Lee might be the cause of the bubble pop on Ethereum.



Tom Lee reckons investors are overlooking one of the most important trends inside the crypto treasury craze: the aggressiveness with which a handful of companies are buying up Ethereum.

“There’s true scarcity in Ethereum right now,” the Wall Street strategist and chairman of BitMine Immersion Technologies said in an interview with DL News.

But it’s not just the asset — “it’s the velocity at which we’re accumulating it,” he said.

Read in full https://www.dlnews.com/articles/markets/tom-lee-bitmine-chairman-touts-ethereum-scarcity/

I do always have the same thoughts in mind that these fellas would be keeping on saying about bubble burst or even having those words about being dead then at the time that they've been left out
then this is where they would be having those regrets and telling that bubble will burst soon and everyone would be crying. Come to think that market do have those corrections and whenever it do happens
then for sure they would be having those impressions that they were right but eventually the market do make out those recovery and breaking new all time highs then this is where they would be having in mind "here we go again". For sure there would come a time that they would be that giving up and then suddenly change hearts.  ;D

This article has very much expressed the purpose on why I have created this thread and begin a discussion on when and how the next big market bubble will form and how the market bubble pop might occur.

I am very much aware that everyone will be triggered again, however, if we are being honest with ourselves, markets have always gone up to form a bubble and it had always gone down after the bubble pop. 



The last ‘traditional’ bubble cryptocurrencies experienced was in Q4 2017, characterised by double or even triple digit % days, an influx of new participants such that exchanges couldn’t keep up with demand, speculative ICOs, record volumes, new paradigms, new heights and first class flights. That was the last, mainstream, traditional retail bubble culminating 9 years after the first “trustless” peer-to-peer currency was created.

Fast forward 4 years, and crypto’s second major bubble was larger, more complex, layered in a new paradigm of algorithmic stablecoins (Luna Terra), with a sprinkling of re-hypothecation crime (FTX, Alameda). Such was the ‘innovation’ that few really understood how the largest retail Ponzi-esque collapse worked. But as in every new paradigm, participants were convinced this was a new form of financial engineering, a new form of innovation, and if you didn’t get it, no one had time to explain it to you.

Little did we know at the time, that Michael Saylor’s Microstrategy born in 2020 would be the seed that sprouted institutional-grade re-positioning into BTC after its dramatic collapse in 2022 [1]. So much so, in 2025, Saylor’s “financial alchemy” is now at the heart of marginal buyer demand in cryptocurrencies today.

Much akin to 2021, very few truly understand the mechanism behind this new paradigm of financial engineering. Although few understand, a growing number are more wary after previous experiences of what feels and smells dangerous; but how this happens, along with its secondary effects is what makes the difference between knowing something may be wrong, and capitalising on it.

What is a DAT at the base level?

Digital Asset Treasuries (DATs) are pretty simple vehicles. They are traditional equity companies whose sole purpose is to purchase digital assets. New DATs simply raise money from investors, selling shares in their company, and using the proceeds to purchase Digital Assets. In some cases, they continue to sell equity, diluting existing shareholders to use the proceeds to continue purchasing Digital Assets.

I don’t see a multitude of different paths for this to play out, it seems clear to me there are only three paths, and one logical conclusion:

DATs continue to trade at premiums to mNAV, the flywheel continues, insatiable demand drives crypto higher. It is simply a new paradigm driven by financial alchemy.

DATs begin to trade at discounts, unwinding until there are forced liquidations and chapter 11’s, total destruction.

DATs begin to trade at discounts, and begin to be forced to sell underlying assets to re-purchase shares/service debt & operating costs. This unwind becomes recursive, until these DATs reduce in size creating DAT ghost companies.

Read in full https://josephayoub.substack.com/p/dats-not-going-to-last

Bitcoin is not in a bubble so there is nothing to burst. If anything it is extremely undervalued for what it is. If people understood the fiat and inflation scam Bitcoin would be worth tens or even hundreds of millions. :) Unfortunately, probably less than 1% of the population knows anything about these things.

There is nothing wrong with any of this, that is healthy market behavior that is called a correction. Overleveraged and non competitive entities should be regularly cleaned out, that is the only way for a market to remain healthy and continue to mature.

This is different from individual people doing this when Bitcoin was at a lower price how? It is the same game just using different players and different scale, nothing changed. You can't even comprehend the number of people who were in Bitcoin during the right time and sold for plenty of random and mostly stupid reasons.

 ::)

That person probably also forgot that FTX was selling paper-Bitcoin, which was actually what started last cycle's crash because they didn't have their users' Bitcoin when those users started to withdraw in panic.

Plus he didn't consider the FACT the Chad Saylor has been doing Strategy's strategy for FIVE YEARS. Chad Saylor KNOWS what he's doing, don't worry.

Everthing in that "article" may be using some facts, BUT his conclusion in what "might happen" to Strategy is based on opinion, and perhaps, bias.

FUD

Like the august sell off last year I still think the extremes are possible and you have to be ready for that, though its been a year since and the grand momentum of the 200 week moving average for BTC has risen this kind of sharp sell is still a possibility as Bitcoin remains volatile often with speculative flows.

We cannot only focus on the positives with the big highs and massive targets possible, its only fair and balanced to be realistic in seeing the negative extremes remain possible also.    I mostly blame the failure of FIAT for this, August 2024 selloff came from the Japanese Yen sending shock waves through markets I think, Bitcoin is part of that chain recoiling in shock events or fears.

Bitcoin itself is not the bubble, its been a consistent grower over a decade now, its gone further then the tech bubble of the 90's and can grow further.   I only wish for Bitcoin to continue to serve and be useful to the ordinary 'poor' user, if it became elite and overly held just by billion dollar entities then it clips my optimism tbh.
   Some of the prices do end up being too much and will not last, when we reach that point I'm not sure but I only fear when people stop calling it a bubble then maybe I do have to start worrying myself.

This is another article on digital asset treasuries where the writers have expressed their speculation that some of these dats might not be sustainable and much of them might not have a mandate similar to Microstrategy where Michael Saylor has very much made it very clear that he will never give the command to dump bitcoin held by Microstrategy.

These other digital asset treasury has not declared a promise similar to Michael Saylor. A promise from Saylor which we can be certain that will be a promise that will never be broken.



We take a look at some of the crypto treasury companies and talk about the structure of some of the latest deals and why people choose to invest in them. We look at how PIPE investors can make handsome profits when the treasury companies trade at a significant premium to mNAV. We briefly review some of the advisory agreements, asset management agreements and management incentives in place to grow the mNAV premium. We analyse the impact passive funds could have on the sector and how Vanguard could be the final bagholder for the successful treasury companies.

In our view, the end game here is that many of these companies eventually trade at a significant discount to mNAV and become zombies once again, potentially still paying significant fees, just like $GBTC. However a select few may make it. By “make it” it likely means that the companies achieve significant scale such that passive funds such as Vanguard and State Street become the largest shareholders, before the premium to mNAV eventually potentially declines to near 1.0x or lower.

Another more simple takea way from this report, is just to buy the ETFs.

Read in full https://blog.bitmex.com/treasury-company-advisory-agreements/

It appears that these digital asset treasuries are not the only speculated occurrence that might begin a type of market bearishness. There are other speculations that a recession in the American economy might be nearing already and it is speculated that this outflows on the bitcoin ETF that is being witnessed might be proof that the fear on the market is beginning.



Spot ether exchange-traded funds (ETFs) logged their fifth straight day of outflows this week, shedding $952 million in total and over $787 million in the four-day week alone.

Friday accounted for the sharpest decline, with $446.71 million leaving these ETH-linked funds. Spot bitcoin ETFs, in contrast, posted $246.4 million in net inflows over the past week. The contrast is notable, as funds investing in the flagship cryptocurrency saw $751.1 million in net outflows last month.

Its recent drawdown is likely related to a broader return from risk assets. That came after weak U.S. jobs data furthered expectations the Federal Reserve will cut interest rates later this month, along with growing fears of a recession.

Read in full https://www.coindesk.com/markets/2025/09/06/spot-ether-etfs-shed-usd952m-over-5-days-as-recession-fears-grow

it is the simple realization eth is a shit coin.  and it went from 1400 to 4950.


so people that got in low just a few months ago are dumping.  not bearish at all just shit 💩 turning into diarrhea.

Exactly. Many funds that were chasing shitcoins are down bad, because they included a mix of allegedly good coins like ETH and many the new big thing narratives. Many of those are useless and were just short-lived on hype. Most projects that were doing very well in the last cycle are down terribly still. Most will never recover.

Bitcoin is different, Bitcoin does not care. Bitcoin is not built on hype, on funding, on presales. That's why none of these news are relevant to us.  8)

It appears that the bubble pop is on the digital asset treasury company and not on the asset in their treasury heheheheh.

In any case, I speculate that if it will be cheaper for Microstrategy to buy the company behind the digital asset treasury to own the bitcoin in their treasury, Michael Saylor might certainly consider this tactic to collect more bitcoin. It will not be shocking to witness this in the next news updates.



Bitcoin treasury narrative gets ‘annihilated’ for firm as stocks collapse over 96%

One of the most hyped Bitcoin treasuries is imploding.

Nakamoto Holdings, which merged with healthcare company KindlyMD in August, crashed more than 50% on Monday, just days after its PIPE shares unlocked last week, allowing insiders to dump their stock on the market.

Shares for Nakamoto are down 96% from its May peak. Today, they trade at $1.50.

Now, Nakamoto’s collapse won’t kill the Bitcoin treasury trade, but for retail investors who bought the top — and its accompanying hype — the lesson is expensive but clear: not every company can be a MicroStrategy.

Read in full https://www.dlnews.com/articles/markets/nakamoto-nosedives-in-blow-for-bitcoin-treasury-narrative/

It appears that people are also beginning to have the realization that Tom Lee's digital asset treasury on Ethereum is also not very good. I cannot say the word mentioned in the article because there will be members of the forum who will certainly be angry at me.

You can read the words mentioned in the source of the article.



Tom Lee's ETH Thesis is

Source https://x.com/rewkang/status/1970782770805813392?s=12

This is not the bubble pop, however, this was certainly a reminder that much of the leverage can be liquidated, the market can go down, and the scams will begin to be exposed.

What will presently be the next FTX or Luna? Similar to my argument before, it might be some of these digital asset treasuries. Do not triggered by this prediction, similar to the people who got triggered in the prediction that FTX might be the next one to bite the dust heheheh.

and binance can do it to help BNB

THIS was a coordinated attack by some big players.
many coins tanked across the board.

@philipma1957. If this a coordinated attack, who are the attackers and what was being attacked? If what was being attacked is Binance, I reckon it is not working. However, there people questioning Binance's solvency in social media. However again, this might also be part of the coordinated attack hehehehe.

In any case, the contrarian in me is speculating that the cryptospace will pump and chase the pumps on gold and stocks and create the market bubble before the pop hehehe.

ETH has had a good cycle, but its rise has been largely due to treasury companies, most of which are failing to create value for their shareholders. If Michael Saylor’s Strategy collapses, Bitcoin will be affected but not to the same magnitude as altcoins will be when the ponzinomics behind these treasury companies fall apart.

Stablecoins and RWAs might be a good narrative but they don’t meaningfully increase the value of the ETH currency. Bitcoin, by its nature, will remain useful as an alternative to fiat, so even if another major crash like FTX happened again, it will recover much faster while altcoins will get annihilated as their buyers disappear.

Saylor's failure will absolutely destroy the entire market, it seems. I think he'll also burst the bubble if he continues to do so aggressively. It's not a good thing if micro-strategists are on the verge of bankruptcy when their average buy price becomes above the BTC market price, but it's still relatively safe right now.

ETH has a growing ecosystem, and so does Solana. They have a growing ecosystem, and RWA exists on these two chains, as well as other ecosystems within the protocol. And we even have a lot of innovation on the Bitcoin network as well. But unfortunately, developers create their own governance tokens, limiting the utility of the main coin, but the burden accumulates on the main chain. This cycle is definitely very bad for ETH. Yes, you're right, the price increase is only due to treasury companies and ETFs, while there is very little retail.

I would assume that no person, not a single person, not even satoshi, can make bitcoin go to zero. So there is no need to be worried, at worst case we are going to have a crash in the market, and if you have no cash to invest that is a bad thing, but try to find some, do a garage sale if you have to, just get rid of whatever you can, if not just then end up with a bunch of better ways to make some money, starve yourself for a few months if you have to and eat only one meal that is cheap, I am not joking.

BUT NEVER TAKE LOANS, everything but that is acceptable. Then invest after the crash, at a very low price, and wait for it to recover, because even if we fall from here to 10k, I still would think that it will go back here one day so I will buy a lot more.

It seems like market makers are trying to re-assess assets and prepare for the next big move. I understand that the pressure started when traders who traded short futures were beaten, and secondly, those who held long positions were also cleaned out. Is this just the beginning of what can be considered a "market warm-up" before a hard and deeper fall, coupled with Trump's indecisiveness regarding tariff policies with China and now the public will be asking when the potential for a major reversal will begin again.

I very much disagree that ethereum had a good performance in this bull market. It is presently not above the all time high from the bull market before. If it had a very good performance, this should be more than 2x of the last all time high.

This is a similar argument on bitcoin. It is presently not more 2x above the last all time high and much of the buying done on this is by Michael Saylor. If he did not buy as much bitcoin as he has done, I speculate the price would still be under $100k.

In my opinion, the market will be down in prices as part of long term economic cycle.

Everything is down right now. At the peak of its bull run ETH tripled in price from where it was in April. That is objectively good performance. If the standard is being 2x above previous all time highs, then almost no altcoin can be said to be performing well since many years. Even Solana, whose memecoin meta was the dominant narrative in altcoins for a while and went up 30x in two years, has performed badly by that standard.

For altcoins, it’s going to be very hard to go above prior highs due to there always being more and more competition. There are new blockchains launched every month and new tokens every day. ETH will go higher over time, but with the amount of dilution from other altcoins, we have to keep expectations realistic.

@FinneysTrueVision. I disagree that the performance of Ethereum is good. This has not performed similarly to the bull markets of before. If this will continue, I reckon there will be new seasons of Ethereum Killers until there will be one that will take the 2nd spot in coinmarketcap.com.

In any case, this is where I will begin to speculate that there will be no dump anymore heheheh. If banks and traditional finance analysts begin to declare something about bitcoin, we should begin to become contrarians hehehehehhe.



The cryptocurrency has been in a slump ever since renewed tension between the US and China billowed into capital markets, wiping out $19 billion in leveraged positions across crypto in a single day.

Now, as it trades at around $108,000, crypto’s top asset has an inescapable trip below the six-figure mark, according to Geoffrey Kendrick, head of digital assets research at UK-based bank Standard Chartered.

“The question now is how far does Bitcoin need to fall before finding a base,” Kendrick said in an October 22 note to investors.

“A dip below $100,000 seems inevitable.”

Read in full https://www.dlnews.com/articles/markets/bitcoin-faces-inevitable-dip-to-100k-says-standard-chartered/

There might be more bad news that might be published on November because some of these digital asset treasuries' stocks have dumped from their all time high when they announced their cryptocoin strategies similar to Microstrategy heheheeh.

However, I speculate that it will be a chance to buy cryptocoins on low prices before another pump that might occur until December.



Nakamoto Holdings, the Bitcoin treasury firm led by Bitcoin Magazine CEO David Bailey, has seen its stock collapse by over 98% since its May high after a wave of investor selling linked to its $563 million private investment in public equity (PIPE) deals.

However, its financing model, which involved selling heavily discounted shares to private investors to fund Bitcoin purchases, backfired when a large batch of PIPE shares became eligible for sale in September. The resulting flood of sell orders cratered the stock price, erasing billions in market value, Bailey said in a recent interview with Forbes.

Read in full https://cointelegraph.com/news/nakamoto-stock-collapses-95-after-563m-pipe-deals



There are people on social media that have declared that there digital asset treasuries that have begun to dump bitcoin. Does anyone have a proof on this or is this fud?

What is everyone's speculation on where bitcoin's price will end on 2025? Will we witness another pump or has market bubble pop begun? This will be another headshaking occurrence because it very much appears that the people in the cryptospace have not changed. On social media, they are very much bullish and waiting for another pump. Are these influencers really bullish or are these influencers using their followers as exit liquidity again?

If more of these smaller digital asset treasuries will sell their bitcoin to buy back and save the price of their stock, I reckon it would be very good for them to be the first to dump than become the forced marginal sellers. If they become forced marginal sellers, this would make them sell on a lower price and this will also cause the price of bitcoin to dump lower than the expected low support.



The Bitcoin treasury boom is slowing down.

Public companies added just 14,400 Bitcoin worth about $1.4 billion to their balance sheet in October, the lowest monthly total of 2025 and a sharp, 63% drop from September’s 38,035 Bitcoin, according to data compiled by BitcoinTreasuries.net.

Private companies added even less — about 3.5 Bitcoin for the month.

The dramatic slowdown comes as the premium that made Bitcoin treasuries attractive to investors has collapsed.

Strategy’s mNAV — the ratio between its market capitalisation and the Bitcoin it holds — has fallen to 1.1x, from 1.8x in May. For the sector’s most prominent company, those aren’t auspicious numbers.

And Strategy isn’t alone in its trouble. MetaPlanet, the largest treasury in Asia, is down $30 million on its Bitcoin purchases, while France-based Sequans communications sold 970 Bitcoin to recoup some of the losses it suffered in its stock price.

Read in full https://www.dlnews.com/articles/markets/bitcoin-treasuries-suffer-their-worst-month-on-record/

If I look at this possibility, it seems like Asymmetric Financial Corporate Adoption, and it makes perfect sense for Joe McCann, founder and CEO of the Asymmetric Financial crypto hedge fund, to do so because he sees a huge opportunity right now, while also following in Michael Saylor's footsteps by buying and holding BTC on a large scale. If I see how McCann & Asymmetric operates, it will be more of a high-risk hybrid crypto fund model. If I'm right, the risk of further bubbles could be higher due to the leverage and aggressive return expectations, which of course, positively increase the risk of bubbles in the market. This is very different from the pattern Michael Saylor designed. This is not a model that creates comfortable market conditions like Michael Saylor did.

@NewRanger. If I am not mistaken, Joe Mccann is the same person who had a hedgefund that was very much mismanaged and had much losses. I have heard that he was forced to close this hedgefund because it did not have the cashflow anymore to continue.

In any case, similar to what I have argued before, Michael Saylor and maybe Tom Lee's digital asset treasuries will be the survivors. The others might be forced to dump some of their cryptocoins to buyback the company's stock.

News update.

It appears that Japan is imposing a limit on companies under their jurisdiction from using similar investment tactics that is being used by Microstrategy and other digital asset treasuries. They might be very much be in speculation that these companies can become exit liquidity for cryptocoin holders hehehehe.



Japan Exchange Group Inc. is mulling measures to limit the growth of listed digital-asset treasury companies, as concerns deepen over losses connected to the crypto hoarding frenzy.

Since September, three listed Japanese companies have put plans to start buying cryptocurrencies on hold due to pushback from JPX, according to one of the people. Those companies have been told their fundraising abilities will be restricted if they pursue buying crypto as a business strategy, the person said.

Read in full https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2025-11-13/japan-exchange-is-looking-at-ways-to-curb-crypto-hoarding-firms