Bitcoin Forum

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Yes, ETFs are the recommended method for both low tech people and those that are overall not familiar with the practices necessary to secure your Bitcoin. Keep in mind that mistakes with Bitcoin are not reversible, so I highly recommend educating yourself deeply before you try to do self custody with any significant amount. For the time being you are better off joining us through the ETF. Welcome!

So first of all, you're not late to the game.

Think about it. If you came to the party at $1k, knowing that a year before bitcoin was $100 and a year before $1, you'd think it's done growing and you're late.
3 years later it would be $20k and you'd probably think you're late, but ahead there was 60k, at which point people like you were saying they're late, not knowing that there's 120k ahead of them.

The other thing is considering yourself non-tech. Are you able to use a computer? Do you have a smartphone? If you do, you're capable of holding your own bitcoin.
Of course there are real dinosaurs out there, people who barely know how to operate a TV remote, but I'm sure you're not one of them.

Yes.  Holding it yourself in cold storage is probably best, but FBTC and similar ETFs are certainly much easier to use with your brokerage and much easier to buy and sell, so yes, it is a good way to invest in bitcoin.

Take a look with their custody https://blockworks.co/analytics/bitcoin-etf/tracker

Fidelity use self custody, so if Fidelity Investments fails, you would lost your coins.
Blackrock use Coinbase as their custody, if Coinbase got hacked or fails, you might lost your coins.

Since I know Bitcoin before the ETF version exist, I don't know which way I use to buy Bitcoin, but I think purchase Bitcoin through exchange was never been hard.

Buying and holding whichever shares from either Fidelity or BlackRock is not much different from using an exchange to buy and hold your bitcoin; they both share the same risk unless the investment firms are insured, and we don't know to what extent the insurance can cover if any loss happens.

And if you are just in for buying and selling instantly when profit is added, you can also choose to use any of them, but you can't send out to a private wallet since it's not real bitcoin you are holding in that wallet.

I got into the debate of same subject very recently over Reddit community, where someone suggested buying ETF is same as buying bitcoin but it's Big NO.

Bitcoin is bitcoin, everything else which can claim they are backed by bitcoin but we can't verify them we just need to trust them for storing our money in their custody which is not Satoshi visioned. Bitcoin should be move in the direction of self custody, be your own bank not the same rigged game of trusting someone with our money. Anyway it's just my opinion. :)

Buying a BTC ETF like FBTC is an easy way to get price exposure. Yes, it works when you do not mind technicalities or direct ownership. But you are not actually buying Bitcoin. You are buying a financial product that tracks Bitcoin's price. You do not get real custody, cannot send BTC, cannot move it off the exchange. It is convenient, regulated, but your Bitcoin lives in someone else's vault, and you trust them to let you cash out.

It is fine for traditional investors, and for people who want zero hassle. Just remember, you are getting Wall Street's version of Bitcoin, not the real thing. If you want actual control and self-sovereignty, learn to use a wallet and buy real BTC. Otherwise, the ETF suffices to simple exposure and to the majority of late adopters.. Simply know what you are owning. It is not the initial vision of Bitcoin, yet it is the way of least resistance.

They can be trusted firms but the very first reason for the existence of bitcoin is to eliminate trusted third party aka custodians, fund managers, etc and by inheriting the same system for bitcoin too means we are just stuck with the same risks of being censored, controlled, rigged...

If you own bitcoin, you no need to trust anyone, just you have the complete access to your coins if you store them in a wallet that provide seeds/private keys and you are the ultimate controller of your funds, even if Satoshi wanted he can't do anything but that's not same with the way of ETF, or any custodial way of storing bitcoin.

If you view btc as an investment, yes that’s a good way to invest in btc since you care only for the price, nothing else. From your perspective, this decision makes sense the most.

If you value the tech behind btc and have plans to use it, then you need to own btc itself. You know there are a few nice use cases. You can buy stuff with it, keep your savings in a btc address like it is a savings account… Send money globally without needing permission…

Clearly you are not interested in these and that’s why you made the right decision

At least you already have a good sense of confidence about investing in Bitcoin, even if you decide to buy shares instead of the actual Bitcoin itself, which you can actually store in your own wallet. However, if we're talking about whether it's a good method or not, buying ETF shares is certainly a good option. Moreover, the company you're referring to has a proven reputation, which I believe is beyond doubt. So, if that's what you feel is safest and most trustworthy, then that's the right choice for you.

Everyone has their own approach. However, if you want to invest in Bitcoin and want full control over your Bitcoin, then buying it on an exchange and sending it to your own Bitcoin wallet is the best option.

For now, you're on the right track. And I suggest you also start learning more about Bitcoin so you'll be more familiar with the investment instrument you're entering. I'm sure that once you learn more about Bitcoin, you'll become more confident in your long-term investment.

As long as it fits your need and you don't want to learn about the discipline of self custody then yes.

But if you're interested in self custody basically truly owning your BTC then it's better if you buy BTC directly.

I guess each one come with perks and disadvantage, with ETF you won't worry about taking care of your seed phrase, backing up, etc although you don't truly own your BTC.

If your sole goal in investing in bitcoin is profit, you don't care about decentralization and privacy. There is nothing wrong with investing in bitcoin through an ETF and there is nothing to worry about as some people say. So far, hundreds of billions of dollars have been invested in bitcoin through ETFs, and I believe that people who spend millions and billions of dollars to invest are not stupid and do not know what they are doing. Therefore, you can rest assured when investing through ETFs.
But if you are concerned about privacy and want to have full control over your assets. Investing through ETFs is no longer right for you.


I think investing in bitcoin by holding it yourself through a non-custodial wallet or through an ETF depends on each person's preferences and goals. Both are good and we just need to choose the solution that suits us.

Buying a BTC ETF is not a good idea. When you buy an ETF, you don’t actually own anything , you only own an IOU, a promise that someone else owns the actual asset for you. You have to trust the other party that they really possess the Bitcoin and that they will pay you when you ask for it.

For example, what if things go wrong hyperinflation hits the US, a civil war breaks out, or there is anarchy? How will you then access your money? In such situations, there is a high chance you could lose everything.

On the other hand, when you own Bitcoin on your hardware wallet, you truly own a bearer asset. You can always carry it with you, go anywhere in the world, and exchange it for local currency. You can directly use and spend Bitcoin, which ETFs or IOUs do not allow.

If you've already made up your mind and the advice of others doesn't have any impact then there's really nothing to talk about. You are better off choosing to use a third party rather than having bitcoin in your own hands. But what in the title you are still asking, while from this statement it feels like the decision is final.

You only need to understand this advice that is famous and after that you can know whether buying Bitcoin ETF shares is good?

"Not your keys, not your bitcoins".
https://chainsec.io/nyknyc/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AcrEEnDLm58

How to keep you bitcoin secure in a public world
https://www.bitcoin.com/get-started/how-to-keep-your-bitcoin-secure-in-a-public-world/

Short answer, it's not good.

You're not investing in bitcoin yet, because this are exchange traded funds you're investing on and they are stocks and shares in which their primary aim is to use bitcoin price to determine for their market standards and price as well as the productivity yield upon each investment to either be for gain or lose base on the bitcoin price.

You're also under a centralized financial institution and they are using your own money to buy bitcoin together with other shares as asset and invest on your behalf, they make profits and decide on a cut to offer you on this progress, while on loss, you face it all alone, so why not learn to just invest in Bitcoin for your own self and hold than all these.

Invest or don't invest, it is not important. The more important thing is you don't own any bitcoin or fraction of bitcoin by buying Bitcoin ETF shares.

You can consider yourself as whoever, it's not important, but if you actually own bitcoin (by owning Bitcoin private key), you are good and only need to do remaining steps rightly like how to backup your wallet, and recover it with backups.

You can not trust any company, anyone to keep Bitcoin private keys and stores bitcoins for you. You must do it by yourself, be your self custodian, and have your own bitcoin bank.

Exactly, each has its own pros and cons, none is perfect or absolute. Storing bitcoins ourselves with a non-custodial wallet gives us complete control over our bitcoins, but in return, we have to spend a lot of time managing it. Just one minute of carelessness, one mistake and we can lose access to our bitcoins forever. Meanwhile, if we put our trust in a third party, we will not have full control over our bitcoins and our safety depends on them. But in return, we don't need to spend a lot of time and effort to protect our bitcoins.

Each has its own risks and which solution to choose is up to each individual. "Pick your poison"

It is not a bad decision, and it is better than not buying it that's for sure.

Would i do it? No, that is because i prefer to hold my BTC in my self custodial wallet and i also spend a few BTC sometimes, so i would rather buy BTC than buying shares of a BTC etf. Each to their own, because at the end of the day we would individually choose what works for us.

To my mind, Bitcoin Spot ETFs are a good way for beginners to buy Bitcoins but if they want to HODL bitcoins, then I suggest them to learn more about Bitcoin over time and focus on hardware wallet and how to create a cold wallet and store their bitcoins safely.
In my country, local banks offer ETF investments to their customers. With mobile or internet bank, you can easily move money from your main account to investment account and buy ETFs within seconds. You can also sell them within seconds and immediately transfer money from investment account to main account, all of these are part of the bank's ecosystem and you do not transfer money outside of the bank, which is very handy to my mind, especially for beginners.

I'm not sure if an account called 'BTCETFInvesto' that started this thread is somehow trying to promote ETFs.


This would be ideal for someone who has already purchased shares or ETFs and finds bitcoin complicated. But over time, nothing is safer than managing bitcoins with your private keys.

Maybe OP wanted to hear something that would change his mind, but alas - it wasn't enough, so to speak  ;D

But as Z-tight said, this is at least better than not buying and many times better than many people still being hostile and distrustful of bitcoin, so far.

In my opinion, if OP is new then this is not a bad start and there is nothing to criticize him about. Newbies need more time to learn about bitcoin and once they understand enough, they can convert their ETF into real bitcoin at any time. This is not a big or serious issue and we do not need to be too harsh on those who are new to bitcoin but have already believed and decided to invest in it.

Not a bad ideal buying shares of bitcoin through the ETF. As a non Tech who tend to be buying aggressively with a long term interest, it saves you a lot of stress and a key to insurances so that you don't get driven by Fomo or lack of management because there is a management structure in the firm of being a shareholder with the ETF.

As a bitcoin investor, I do not encourage us to invest and store bitcoin through a third party because that goes against its original criteria. But I have to admit that not everyone knows how to use non-custodial wallets, DEXs...so for those who don't have basic knowledge of technology or are not too confident in their ability to hold it themselves. Buying bitcoin shares through ETFs is a good solution.

I see many people against investing through ETFs but we are not in their shoes and we are not like them. We should not impose our thoughts on them.

You aren't late to bitcoin there is always every opportunity to invest in bitcoin and grow your portfolio gradually. Although to me i wouldn't support investment made through any party or exchange, it would be ideal to make your investment and remain in custodial of your wallet, that is to say that you should make investment and have your keys at yourself than having to leave your investment on exchange where you had no key to your funds. Key in mind that bitcoin price increases gradually as time keeps going, when you understand how bitcoin operates you would never think you are late to bitcoin investment because bitcoin increases every year especially after its cycles.

My advice is to ignore any so called experts and influencers. They don't know anything. Simply by the power of chance someone ends up being correct when there are thousands of different predictions. It is better to use your head and think about these things. There is only 1 thing in the entire existence of humanity that has a fixed supply, it is Bitcoin. Everything else is fake or diluting itself like stuff with collectibles. In an always inflating word where the money printer almost never stops its future looks bright.

You just repeated what I wrote in the first response..

The best investment in Bitcoin is to buy Bitcoin and hold it in your non custodial wallet, because you will have full control of your Bitcoin and you will not have to worry that when the exchange has a problem the Bitcoin you have will be lost. Because whatever credible institution you say it is, they are still a company, and at any time they can get into trouble, and when that happens the Bitcoin you hold could potentially be lost. But this is your choice, if you feel that you believe that they are a trusted institution, just do it buy their ETF shares, only at your own risk.

It comes down to whatever you're most comfortable with.

You own similar financial instruments. You said it yourself that you have money with multiple companies, so it looks like you were asking a rhetorical question. Is an ETF a good way to invest in bitcoin? In your case it certainly is because you trust companies that issue shares, you used to own other financial products, you're new to self custody, you are probably an older guy, able to invest a lot of money but scared of being hacked or losing funds by making stupid mistakes.

For me it's a bad idea, but I used to hold bitcoin back when there were no relatively safe custodial solutions. Right now you can get an insured company with a trillion $ in assets to hold your BTC so, why not?

In as much as this sounds good to you to buy a share of Bitcoin ETF and hold, why not or what stops you from buying Bitcoin directly from any decentralized exchange platform or a centralized exchange platform out there such as Binance or Bybit, and put your BTC in a cold storage wallet such as Ledger Nano X or Trezor model you can also use a free wallet like the electrum wallet if you can't get your hands on any of these hardware wallets and have a full possession of your funds, because not your keys not your cryptos.
It safer to self custody that's the main game.

But it should also be added that using a non-custodial wallet will give us full control over our bitcoins, but that does not mean we will be absolutely safe. There have been many exchanges, centralized platforms that have been hacked, collapsed, and many people have lost their bitcoins because of using their storage services. But there are also many investors who have lost bitcoins because they did not do a good job of security when storing them themselves.

allinvain, a member of our forum also had his wallet hacked and lost over 25kBTC in 2011.

To be fair, being your own bank or using a third party both have their pros and cons.

https://iili.io/FkLjZQ9.md.png
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=16457.0

Personally, I don't consider buying shares in BTC ETF as a way to invest in Bitcoin. I congratulate you for finally deciding to invest in Bitcoin, but I can't congratulate you on your decision to invest in an ETF because I don't see it as any different from investing in banks.

However, if you're the type who doesn't like the hassle of learning the most basic security rules and doesn't care whether you actually own your assets, that's your decision, and you bear responsibility for your choice.

Yes its a good way to invest because when you buy shares, unless someone sell their shares, Blackrock actually buys real bitcoin from their custodian, I think its Coinbase in this situation.

If you cant be bothered with security or you are someone that is not very good with computers its the preferred way to invest because its more secure. Sure there are people who say "not your keys... not your coins" its true but honestly there are way too many hacks and scams going around that buying the Bitcoin ETF is the best solution to some people.

To be fair self custody can be a hassle if we learned from zero, if a person wanted to only profit from holding BTC they can easily use exchange and etf.

There are clear regulation about the instrument they're buying so doing due diligence is great. Majority of people that I know are just using exchange to buy bitcoin and thats it.

I've pursued them to be self custody and what they say is that they're already got too much on their hand to learn about self custody, basically busy people.

As some have said, buying bitcoin and holding it in a non-custodial wallet is the best way and that is true. But that doesn't mean investing through a bitcoin ETF is not good or unsafe.


Many people do not acknowledge this as bitcoin investing because those investing through ETFs do not own real bitcoins. But the irony is that the biggest money flowing into the market and the catalyst that increased demand for bitcoin and pushed the price to $123,000 are ETFs.

Everyone understands this and even supports it as it helped bitcoin price rise to $123,000. But on the other hand, it is puzzling that many people are still willing to complain or even criticize when someone invests through ETFs.
This makes me feel like they are people with multiple personalities  ;D ;D.

In short, investing in bitcoin by buying and holding in a non-custodial wallet, or through an ETF are both good and safe ways.

This is fine if you have just started. Soon, you will also want to hold that actual Bitcoin which isn't far from how you've purchased that FBTC. All you need to have is a wallet and also an exchange account. It might be complicated at the beginning when you're not yet aware of how to do it. But eventually, you'll get used to it and you'll have the idea that it's not that bad to own the actual BTC than the shares. Anyway, as long as you're investing what you can afford to lose, this is just the start and you'll get to know more about Bitcoin.

When you invest in an ETF, you are not buying Bitcoin itself, but only a share in the Bitcoin ETF. Under the terms of the agreement, the ETF (in your case, the Fidelity FBTC fund) agrees to pay you a certain amount in US dollars (if certain conditions are met). This amount is determined in conventional units (namely, BTC) and is converted into dollars on the day of payment. So, in fact, you do not own any Bitcoins🤷

Are you okay with this? If your answer is "yes", then everything is great! From then on, everything will depend on the decisions of other people, which, in turn, will be determined by the current political and economic situation in the United States. For example, under certain conditions, the US government may decide to pay you a smaller amount than specified in the agreement with Fidelity (for example, if it is decided that legal entities and individuals do not have the right to own Bitcoin. Bitcoin can only be a reserve asset managed by the US Federal Reserve).  Also, Fidelity could go bankrupt and refuse to pay you. There could be many more negative events like this in the future. Although, of course, everything could work out well🏛️

Yes, this method of investing is convenient, since you don't have to worry about storing the seed phrase yourself. However, don't be fooled - with this method of investing, you will not become the owner of Bitcoin.🤹

That is true, there is nothing to be worried or scared. Bitcoin will make you some money, and as long as you are doing a good job, you should not be worried about it. Bitcoin has a great future and you will profit from it. I know that it feels scary sometimes when people see it so high, but they need to realize bitcoin is still better than any other investment in the world.

I would say maybe buying yourself a home instead of paying rent could be the better way, you will pay a bit more of course to your mortgage, but at least you own it, and it would be an asset instead of a liability. But aside from that, the best investment in the world is bitcoin, even at this price, long term investment into bitcoin will make you more money.

For a non-tech guy, buying shares of Bitcoin ETFs is a good way to enter the game. Why not? You just want to enter it and you are not a tech-savvy guy but evolve over time. You know, there is one rule in crypto world, not your keys, not your coins. In the end, you want to enlighten yourself more and become slightly more advanced in tech. Creating a Bitcoin wallet is not hard, it's very easy, the hardest thing is to keep seeds safely secured. It only takes few seconds to generate a wallet in Electrum.

I'd agree with this statement but there is a huge difference in market cap when the price of Bitcoin was $1k and now. The market cap was too low during that time and today it's billions of dollars. It can't become 1 million USD from 100K easily. It might hit 200K but I wouldn't expect anything higher than this in 2025-2026.

Many are confident that Bitcoin is best investment even better than buying home because of its past growth and future potential and they suggest ignoring high prices by focusing on long term. While Bitcoin has indeed made many people money it is also very risky and its value can change much unlike house which you can live in or rent out. Ultimately best investment depends on your personal financial goals and how much risk you are comfortable with so it is always wise to spread out your investments and understand risks involved.

It seems like you had another purpose in creating this thread and now you start doing it by trying to spam your thread by advising people to invest in ETFs instead of owning real bitcoins.

I am not against people investing in bitcoin through ETFs because not everyone has enough knowledge and confidence to be able to buy and hold bitcoin in a non-custodial wallet on their own, especially older people who are not tech-savvy. But encouraging everyone to invest in bitcoin through ETFs is a bad idea, it goes against and defeats the purpose of bitcoin. "not your keys, not your bitcoins."


It seems your skepticism is not unfounded.

That's what I said, it's okay and maybe recommended for beginners to buy shares of Bitcoin ETFs because setting up a wallet and securing seed phrases is a little bit complicated process and requires some experience, that's why I think that it's better for them to buy shares of ETFs if they want to don't waste time and invest immediately in Bitcoins and after that I recommend them to learn how to use exchanges, including CEX and DEX and then they have to learn how to create a Bitcoin wallet, how to buy Bitcoin on an exchange and safely withdraw to their wallet address. They also have to learn the difference between Legacy, SegWit and LN addresses and some other type of addresses too or they'll make mistakes and withdraw Bitcoin to the wrong network.

For most people, there's less risk in an ETF compared to you holding and losing your bitcoin. But you'd still be better gravitating towards the latter in the future.

ETFs:
Traditional investments.
You don't actually hold any of the assets, but you hold contracts that you have bought them.
If the counter-party colapses, you would be in some trouble, even though the probability is not very high (depending on the platform of course).
It's good if you just care for increasing your FIAT buying power.

Self-custody:
Bitcoin's whole purpose is to be stored by each one of us individually. It's supposed to be owned by us and no other party.
Bitcoin in self-custody is yours. Truly yours.
It's good if you wanna own your money for the first time in human history, without middle-men and without centralized authorities.

I agree in general with the description but I have to point out one thing. The bitcoin spot ETFs, like ETFs in general, have a close to 0 risk of bankruptcy because even if BlackRock were to go bankrupt, the funds are separated into a custodian. This obligation of separation dates back to the 1940s and there has not been a single case of bankruptcy where depositors lost the funds that were held separately (this sounded familiar but to be sure I have confirmed it with IA).

Sure, and there is also another point, which is that the underlying asset of an index ETF keeps having value even if the ETF provider gets extinguished. For example, if Blackrock offers an SP500 ETF and then disappears, then the companies that constitute the ETF won't necessarily have a problem. I mean, their shares won't be offered to us via the ETF, but the shares won't disappear. The same applies for their bonds of course. In case of bankruptcy, the bond holders are always the first to be compensated.

Honestly it could help you watch or observe how the market works and how it affects your money but as a beginner I personally did not had to go through all this. I just studied and even without being too tech savvy you can learn how and where to buy your bitcoins and to hold them securely. I hope you can just hold bitcoins on your own.

Like Don Pedro Dinero Stated, ETF undergo liquidations not bankruptcy that would cost their customers alot
Hence why many prefer it over exchanges.
But it doesn't rule out the existence of mismanagement either from the ETF or custodian.
Bitcoin ethos. Don't Trust, verify. Many thing can happen in the background we are not aware of.



With the fee, I don't really consider it an option for long term holding. Maybe short term to ride a wave.

using ETF is like owning a Car and rather than using it
You chose to keep it in a truck ridden by another driver.

A car in a truck can't be used for its intended purpose while a personally driven car can.

Many people believe that ETFs are much safer than centralized exchanges. I completely disagree! They are both very risky, not in theory, but in practice.
BlackRock uses Coinbase to hold the Bitcoin that they offer to their clients.
So, if Coinbase gets hacked, then the spot Bitcoin ETF that BlackRock provides will be worthless.
With Bitcoin, if you're not doing self-custody then you are obliged to allow someone else to do custody for you. Someone else does "self-custody" on your coins! It sounds very bad, doesn't it? Well, it is bad!
In short, there is no better option than to have the custody of your own keys. Anything else is risky and, in my opinion, should be avoided.

.

Many were excited about the ETFs, and many still prefer purchasing shares. but it's important to understand that buying bitcoin Etf isn't the same as owning Bitcoin. Though I can't say if it's a good way to invest. Risk aside, you may still be able to make profits along side the crowd. But the key difference here is that as long as a central authority controls the keys you're exposed to the same custodial risks as storing coins on an exchange. True ownership and security only come with selfcustody.

Yes, what I am trying to say is that if Coinbase screws up with their security and they lose their bitcoin that they use in their ETFs, then there is no coming back.

So, it's like trusting them, that they can do self-custody well enough. But it's not like trusting BlackRock, but like trusting Coinbase because it's them who actually hold the coins.

It's not like in stocks and traditional investments, where the underlying asset is more complex. With Bitcoin as the underlying asset, if you just steal it from their address, it's gone forever.

Yea it's never too late to save Bitcoin by DCA and selfcustody will give you true economical sovereignty. It's just 4% of people , up to 560 m people all over the world have bitcoin, and it's still in its adopting phase not a market that's being worked on . Putting BTC on exchange is unsafe, if I recall correctly around $2.2 billion dollar was looted and  43.8 % system bypasses happened because of secret key hacks. So keep  accumulating bitcoin and fix your private key firmly when your offline and HODL For a sustainable and non inflationary path.