Bitcoin Forum

Hi, hope you’re all doing well. Before you start calling me a newbie, or whatever it is you call a freshly created account, let me introduce myself and explain why I’m here. Business dev by trade, I work with multiple SMEs on their management and operational transformation as a consultant. I develop strategy, improve processes, and cut costs. Every day I deal with individuals who, for many years, have been building businesses, employing families, and adding value to communities, while giving up the most precious limited resource we all have: time. They all have something in common, they depend on governments, banks, and large institutions, which hold back their growth and take away power whenever it suits them. Economically, I’m liberal, pro-capitalism, and fully in favor of decentralizing power. I’m a Bitcoin holder and strongly believe in the technology behind it. That said, I have plenty of questions about all the hype surrounding it and the direction it’s heading.

So I decided to create my account to ask you guys, if you think BTC true potential, of giving individuals financial independence and direct control without relying on banks or large institutions, is being undermined by speculation and the lack of real-world applications?

There are use cases, utilities for Bitcoin and many applications related to Bitcoin - of course, scam or Ponzi applications that try to attach Bitcoin to their names for scam attempts are all not included here.

Useful websites and resources about Bitcoin. (https://bitcoin.org/en/resources)

Speculations?
There is freedom and Bitcoin blockchain as well as Bitcoin market are for everyone. You can invest money in Bitcoin with solid belief in its future or you can purchase bitcoins with pure short term speculation for profit and don't plan to stay in Bitcoin market a long time. It's freedom together with diversifying choices.

^ Yep, to each his own.

BTC has a place for everyone to try it out one way or another, and that's the beauty of it..

It's a matter of philosophy I suppose and cuts both ways. If Bitcoin is truly free to do with as you please, then it's only natural that most people find its liquidity and volatility attractive to speculate on. Was true a decade ago, true today, just in multiple volumes and instances. Practically, it's the price of adoption, of recognition. Besides, if the network is as strong as many of us believe in it, then this undermining only affects it short term. When bears happen, speculators get purged, presumably, and the ones remaining are using it as they always have. If speculation results in ultimate demise, then the proof of concept for Bitcoin is... disproved.

P.S. Hope you stick around, you gotta "earn" that right to not be called out as a newbie ;)

Volatility becomes less and less of a factor, imo, because BTC's cap only goes up, and institutions stick to it like to honey.

I agree that it's truly something of a price for BTC to become more mainstream, and much faster than without these institutions.

Pro-capitalism and decentralization power? Doesn't stand well. Capitalism is good in many ways but bad in many ways as well. Capitalism is good at first, everything goes smoothly, there is a competition, the quality of life goes on but over time, everything becomes centralized because we, humans, are social animals. Those rich people who earned more money, don't want to give back more money, they want even more for themselves and try to leave people without money, that's what's happening in our ages.

I don't understand this question well. If you want financial independence, XMR and some other coins are better option to my mind because Bitcoin is becoming centralized compared as time goes and technology advances. It's also speculative as hell but it doesn't mean much for me because I'm here with a long-term game plan. Financially, it's one of the best investment choice, it always rises.

Stability and security = BTC.

Anonymity = XMR.

I don't think that speculation is affecting Bitcoin. Assets lie gold are also speculative and it has not affected its relevance. People will always want to make money from Bitcoin and we cannot stop them from speculating. Bitcoin is just a new invention. Its adoption and use as a currency in increasing gradually. You don't expect it to happen overnight.   

Government policies are the main impediment Bitcoiners face. Some countries are making laws that is forcing people to use Bitcoin through middlemen. Claiming that they are fighting or preventing money laundering and terrorist financing laws like MiCA are targeting decentralized crypto platforms.

 

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Maybe because you're not being informed about the bitcoin network to an extent makes you think in this manner, because bitcoin has come to stay and remained, there is nothing we can do to change the narratives of what bitcoin already serves, because its the need in which the people truly needs and they cant afford to do without, nothing is affecting the real world application of bitcoin as it continue to serve on the needs of the people in the financial economy.

Bitcoin is truly used more than just for speculation, especially now.

And things are going to get better with each year coming, in my opinion..

Thanks to everyone for sharing your views. Many of you have already seen and still see, the trends in Bitcoin’s current use right? Let me broaden my thinking a bit more and respond to some of you:

Speculation, yes. And not just on the asset’s price, but also on what it supports and where it’s being used. I’ve got nothing against people doing it, freedom means exactly that. But here’s the thing, there are so many problems that could be solved with the proper use of this asset, without even giving up control over it, but instead, most are chasing the quick buck, the 1000%, the gambling, the trading, the easy, I'm I right?


And yes, capitalism and decentralization can absolutely work together. Capitalism, by definition, is a free market system based on private property and the voluntary exchange of labor. Nothing stops it from operating in a decentralized environment where competition increases and monopolies shrink.

Once again, beyond the big institutions, funds, banks, etc. where are the SMEs and individuals using this or other tools to actually compete?


About the newbie I hope so. Thanks  ;D

Bitcoin is a very speculative currency but the good thing about Bitcoin is that it always rises. Doesn't matter how big the crash is or how severe the restriction is, if the bubble busts, this coin rises again every time, especially in every 4 years, after halving.
At the moment, Bitcoin is easy to speculate but it's because Bitcoin is a new currency and people don't have knowledge about it. The last example of easy speculation was when SEC leaked that they were going to approve Bitcoin Spot ETFs but I believe that over time, Bitcoin will be more stable and less speculative because it will be more mature, market cap will be higher, people's knowledge and experience will be better and if something ridiculous won't happen, then everything will be fine.

It rises and falls but you are right if you say something like Bitcoin long term trend is always bullish which I agree. If your saying lacks this important information and condition, it's not accurate as Bitcoin is very volatile with falls, rises and also crashes that more popularly occur in bear markets.

Bitcoin sell-offs history. (https://www.visualcapitalist.com/bitcoin-historical-corrections-from-all-time-highs/)

It is easily to demonstrate it by using this Bitcoin Yearly Candle Chart which simply visualizes this fact that is clear enough so that it is undeniable fact.
https://charts.bitbo.io/yearly-candles

If you are doubting real-world applications, then it is clear to me that you don't fully understand Bitcoin yet. Bitcoin's existence itself is the biggest killer real-world application.

You are confusing the location of the problem. This is not a problem of Bitcoin, it is a problem of society. Bitcoin is the best tool that we have ever had, expecting it to fix society is just crazy thinking.

It has never been as good as it is now, but people still find reason to complain. It is amazing how messed up humans are. If someone wants things to be better than they are, make it happen and stop whining online.

I agree that the existence of Bitcoin is already revolutionary, but that’s just the starting point. A tool only changes the world when it’s used to build something, and that’s where I see room to take BTC further.


I don’t expect Bitcoin or other crypto to fix society. What I want is for us to use the best tool we’ve ever had to create real value, not just let it sit there while we debate how great it is.

I feel that bitcoin has less spending places. Currently only casinos and exchanges and those who buy gift cards to spend on merchants. The remaining portion goes into speculation, long term holding.

If things change such that merchants are accepting bitcoin directly, a lot of things will change. Firstly the price will go haywire and the secondly the speculation will come under a lid.

For now we just have to bear with it and continue our resolve of collecting bitcoin. How you use bitcoin will conclude whether bitcoin has sold its soul to speculation or something bad or not.

A lot of people call BTC a 'free' currency, that is to say people are free to use it as they want, without any third party control of course, and that includes the speculators. I don't don't see how speculation is a problem, as many people tend to suggest sometimes, i.e. it doesn't stop anyone from spending their BTC, using it i a p2p way, setting up their own node, etc.

Truth be told, it is going to be hard to find a bitcoiner who isn't using BTC's volatility to make profits on their investments, what is wrong with that? Absolutely nothing.

Bitcoin was once intended this way, but many of those who stored, mined or earned never used it for this purpose. Rather, they used it for speculation or sale, or stored it as an investment.
I have many crypto friends, but at first we did not exchange crypto, neither for services nor for gifts. And there were few services accepting crypto.
But in the modern world, I learned what unreliability of banks is when they block the money that I gave them for storage.
I also saw what it is like when money transfer services stop working, all at once. And then I fully understood how much cryptocurrencies, and Bitcoin in particular, defend our freedom.

I agree that speculation is part of the freedom BTC gives. My point is, if 90% of people only see it as a quick-profit asset, we’re wasting its potential as a driver for business and real financial independence.

Not quite literally, but it can be said that the greater interest has become in price, volatility, and speculation.
Since Bitcoin's price rose significantly, people began to pay attention to Bitcoin for speculation, not for its primary goals of decentralization, financial independence, and complete control of assets.

The large companies that entered the Bitcoin space also did not enter to create decentralized Bitcoin applications. Rather, they entered for profitable investment by buying more and more and setting aside strategic reserves to raise their company shares.

Speculation has always been part of any valuable asset’s journey and you have to also note that it’s human nature to chase profit. However, I don’t think that automatically means Bitcoin has “sold its soul.” Yes, the noise from price predictions and trading hype often overshadows the deeper conversation about decentralization and self-sovereignty.

But the last time I checked, the fundamentals haven’t changed, Bitcoin still works the same way it did when it was created. What I think is really missing is more focus and investment in building tools, services, and integrations that let people use Bitcoin in their daily lives. If we push in that direction, speculation won’t kill the vision instead it will just be the background noise.

There are so may speculations about Bitcoin all the time and important question is does all these come true? I think majority of speculations about Bitcoin go wrong since bitcoin has it's own way of moving. A classical example dates back to Dec 2017, when price of Bitcoin was at it's ATH of 19k and their were predictions that it will be 100k in 2028 but in Dec 2018 we saw price of Bitcoin went down to 3500$.

There are hundreds and thousands of speculations about Bitcoin at a time, if one or two go true it doesn't mean Bitcoin has "sold his soul" to speculations.

I believe everything is built around speculation.  There is no development if there is no speculation; every new idea and invention, systems are built with speculation.  I do not think that Bitcoin has sold its soul to speculation, but rather it has been part of its soul.

This is also the reason there are lots of people coming from different walks of life who come to Bitcoin. They wanted to explore this speculation, verify it, and possibly gain a reward/benefit by taking advantage of this feature.  This is not limited to the market price of Bitcoin but also to the technology, philosophy, and application of Bitcoin.

Just like what @buwaytress stated, if one day the speculation within Bitcoin is proven to be unrealistic, then Bitcoin will eventually be forgotten.

A lack of real wrld application you say? that alone denies your earlier statement that you are an holder of bitcoin that believes in it decentrlization. crtainly, the hype about bitcoin and the speculation on what it next price will be is just what it is because of the potential that holders have on it. as long as investors look at bitcoin from the point of view of being profitable at it, they are going to continue speculating bitcoin price and as adoption also increses, the fact still remains that bitcoins relevant as a means of solving global financial problem will still remain top at the conversation of the usefulness of bitcoin.

you can't stop speculation since it is coming from multiple angle. it is either those that are bullish about bitcoin continues to hype it and reemphasize the need for it adoption or that those that are agaisnt it try to be bearish about there speculation which is going to lead to moreconversation on what bitcoin next price will be. with that and the FOMO that newbie investors experience, bitcoin still remains a relevant asset not just in the now but also in the future to come.

Holding BTC and believing in decentralization doesn’t mean I have to ignore its lack of real-world applications. In fact, it’s because I believe in it that I want to see it used more actively. Speculation will always exist, but freedom also means pushing for its use beyond just price hype.

How is it undermined by speculation? Do you know that there are statistics showing how much bitcoin is on exchanges? For many years this has been dropping and is currently around 2.2m, so only 10% of all bitcoin in existence is used for short term speculation. You can see the graph here: https://www.coinglass.com/Balance

Should the majority really care what the minority is doing? Let them speculate if they want.

What real world applications are you referring to Bitcoin was designed to serve a purpose by the originator of Bitcoin and that was to server as a store of value where people can use it as a digital currency.



I think that you should get this straight first because if you should talk about real world applications Bitcoin that Bitcoin was designed to solve a problem first it's just now that people are getting to see the opportunities that Bitcoin holds that is why Bitcoin has become a big time business or assets that people are rushing to own and for the information Bitcoin has come too far for anyone to be hyping it or run on speculation Bitcoin trajectory or growth profile is there for anyone to fact check

People always try to make it seem like it's an abomination for bitcoin to be a speculative asset and hold it instead of using it as a currency. I don't understand the obsession.
Less than 4% of the world population holds bitcoin, and even fewer than that accept bitcoin as payment, so how are we supposed to use it as a currency? Or do they insinuate that we shouldn't hold bitcoin since there is no way to use it as a currency? If I go to a place that accepts bitcoin, I would gladly pay with bitcoin, but I've not seen any.

Bitcoin can be a speculative asset and still be a currency at the same time. With more growth and adoption, more people will begin to accept bitcoin as a currency, and people will gladly pay with it.
Satoshi is the biggest holder of Bitcoin, so how can it lose its soul if the creator is holding it?
Folks applaud people like Michael Salor and turn around to say that bitcoin has lost its soul.

Bitcoin is not like altcoins, so having a get rich quick mentality while investing in Bitcoin might backfire. Bitcoin is profitable when it is given a long term approach. And I am sure that majority of members in this forum knows that Bitcoin is a long term investment.



It's a good deed to push for the use of Bitcoin as a currency. So many individuals and businesses are using and accepting Bitcoin because they want to promote the currency. But just as you cannot stop anyone from using the dollars the way they like, the same thing applies to Bitcoin. In some countries where there is high inflation, dollars are used as a speculative currency. People will use Bitcoin as the wish, that's the beauty or freedom and decentralization.

Thanks everyone for the replies, looks like a good title makes all the difference, especially when it’s your first post.

That's true, Bitcoin was designed as digital cash and a store of value! But those are just tools, not the end goal. There are dozens of real-world applications including enabling SMEs to receive cross-border payments instantly without high fees, funding small projects directly from individuals without banks, creating community-based lending systems, paying freelancers globally, supporting merchants in unstable economies where local currency collapses, etc etc. For me that's the beauty of Bitcoin. Store the value, use it as an asset or collateral to build/buy more freedom for your family :)

Retailers are still at the helm of hodled BTC, and that's a good thing.

I hope it will stay that way going forward, but I doubt it, seeing what is happening.

Man,

I usually never reply to these topics, but this comment is so well written.

Cheers, mate  8)

OP's comment really shows of what BTC is truly capable of when the time comes (because as of now, surely, it can do all of these things, but not on a scale imagined, imo), it's an alternative for so many spheres and ways of doing things..

Did I hear you say "Lack of real world applications"? You are mistaken Bitcoin to some other digital currency.

Bitcoin is already used for international transactions, payment gateways to facilitate sending and receiving of money in business, cross border trade, store of value, and in making donations during crisis without a third man. So, I think you should recheck the statement you made and correct.

I do think it's more about not wanting to find some real cases to BTC, other than those that tie up directly to its price, not the abilities it has due to its values that are still upheld.. But that's okay, because we can always learn about these and understand the cases you and others would present.

 8)

Thanks guys :)


I’m aware BTC is already used for that and more. The issue is that most of these use cases are dominated by large companies and 3th parties not by individuals or SMEs, which actually make up the majority of the world’s economy. The potential for Bitcoin is to truly empower small businesses and everyday people to operate independently, and that’s the gap I’m highlighting.

You don't need to be stressing yourself about the idea some newbies have about Bitcoin. Most of these people don't bother to read that is why they will keep asking funny questions about Bitcoin and how they don't find it too appealing. Everyone has different opinion about Bitcoin and since it's their personal opinion, there is nothing bad about that.
Anyone that still don't understand what really application Bitcoin has should take a quick look at the Bitcoin white paper so that they can have an obvious understanding of what Bitcoin is and some of these applications. It has bring about a revolution that can not be halted.

Welcome to the forum!

If a system exists that can provide financial independence to the individuals. What's wrong in it?

If a system is available to break you free from the banking cartel, what's wrong in it?

If a system is available to bless you with financial anonymity, what's wrong in it?

What other real world applications you are referring to? What else do you need?

Don't you think that providing anonymity, financial independence is enough as great user cases?

Who is going to teach the newbies if you dont do that? I see your point but the main reason why we have this knowledge is because someone was willing to share it so its in our position to do some, even if its not mandatory.


I believe there are more than enough resources online for newbies to learn. Its just that, most of them are reluctant to do research before making assumptions. It wont tear a piece from their flesh.

In this case, I think it all depends on each person's perspective, but the majority of people here or those who are interested in Bitcoin still have almost the same belief that Bitcoin can change our finances for the better, even if it only refers slightly to financial freedom, but everyone wants to change their finances with Bitcoin as the object.

Regardless of whether the current speculation is one form of freedom, everyone has their own thoughts, and we cannot control others' thoughts, whether they like Bitcoin or the speculation surrounding it or not. In this case, we are all aware that ultimately, this is one form of expression toward something. This includes Bitcoin, as I mentioned earlier, everything depends on perspective, and we express that through the speculation we believe in.

Bitcoin is actually a game of speculation, due to its high volatility and uncertainty. But there’s only one advantage of bitcoin, it has all the potentials to grow and succeed in the market, despite how banks and government are trying to visualize it as a non-valuable asset.

Now seeing that bitcoin could easily get affected by market news and sentiments, I think that’s also one characteristic of bitcoin. But at the end of the day, it will always recover from any negativity, not because it has huge potentials to survive, but because bitcoin is actually bound to lead our future, through its limitless success and profits.

I don’t think so. Financial independence is achieved by many because of bitcoin. They get to double or even triple their funds and more importantly bitcoin protects their money from inflation so they can see the growth of their assets over time. This allows them to plan for the future and possibly retire a lot earlier because they have the sufficient funds.

Your concerns should tilt towards a position outcome, one certainly is, the speculations about Bitcoin wouldn't go away anytime soon

It seems your perspective is completely different from most people here. While you want bitcoin to be used and applied in more real life as its original purpose was to create a peer to peer currency, providing and protecting our privacy. But unlike you, 99% of people here come to bitcoin with the sole purpose of making a lot of money and becoming rich. Not many people actually care about decentralization as much as they claim, so don't be surprised when many people disagree with your thinking, bitcoin lacks practical applications.

To me, at this stage bitcoin is still only used as a speculative asset, it really lacks real-world applications. That is one of the main reasons why it is highly volatile.

I believe that Bitcoin is just a form of capital harvesting and a form of currency that is bound to appear in the economic cycle. Without Bitcoin, other virtual currencies with the same nature as Bitcoin will appear. Therefore, the fundamental reason is the economic environment of capital intervention, which gave birth to Bitcoin.

I don't think the speculative characteristic undermine its vision.

Instead, the speculative characteristic making people attracted into bitcoin and later learn about its vision which is financial freedom and so on.

I even think that it's volatile because it's not relying on banks and large institutions in the first place, it just exist and let the market decide its value.

Honestly, I like this version of bitcoin better, where volatility is a normal phenomenon.

It becomes less and less of a factor anyway, because it's hard to move such a giant to a big extent, so to speak.

And, truly - BTC is not controlled, it lives for itself, basically, thus, the price fluctuations are a byproduct of that.

If bitcoin's volatility is due to its independence from banks or institutions, then its volatility has not decreased over time because bitcoin has so far retained its decentralized nature.
But compared to before, bitcoin's volatility has decreased significantly. So I think bitcoin is volatile because it is highly speculative and manipulated by financial forces. Previously, bitcoin could drop 85-90% during bear seasons or increase x2-x5 in short periods of time, but it is clear that volatility has decreased significantly as market cap has increased. The larger the capitalization, the more difficult it is to manipulate.


It's not just you, we all love the volatility of bitcoin and that's why we are here. Simply because we can leverage that to generate higher profits.

..And we also wouldn't be able to do anything about it, so we should rather cherish the possibilities because of it ;D

Bitcoin being a highly speculative element since its value can rise and fall drastically due to news and market temperament. Volatility makes it risky and at the same time, people seeking growth and opportunities pool towards it. I concur that even when banks and governments have been skeptical about Bitcoin, they have been quick to pounce back after any misfortuns. Its decentralized design provides it some form of staying power: its increasing use. There are no guarantees, but its possibility to change money as we know it surely makes people interested and optimistic.

BTC is guaranteed to rise in price and value because the more time passes, the more people and institutions come to it and see it as something worth working with: volatility or not, BTC becomes viewed as something worth the shot, and the demand increases every year.

I'll answer your question with my personal opinion. I believe Bitcoin's true potential lies in its value, which has the potential to surge significantly over time, or cycle after cycle. This is based on Bitcoin's historical value, which we can see reaching a new all-time high every cycle, and this is influenced by halvings and adoption. Halvings can be said to be a cycle that significantly impacts Bitcoin's value, as we know they make Bitcoin increasingly rare. Meanwhile, Bitcoin adoption is starting to spread from companies, countries, and institutions. This is also part of Bitcoin's potential, especially if the entire world adopts it. If you want to learn about real-world applications, it's only a matter of time. Overall, not many people are familiar with Bitcoin, so I think strategic reserve is just a start to make that happen. I hope you understand some of what I've said, and perhaps this can be the right answer. And as a suggestion, I think this is a potential we should capitalize on in Bitcoin.

We recognize that ETF and large financial institutions are increasingly dominating the bitcoin market, which is considered a deviation from Bitcoin original purpose as a financial revolution that prioritizes complete control. Speculation is inevitable, with rapid price fluctuations resulting in inefficiencies for everyday transactions. However this doesn't mean Satoshi vision is dead, as we individuals, still have full control over our asset.

Retailers still have more than institutions, so all as gud, imo, we shouldn't sway toward the doomsday scenarios in that instance.

Sure, but as long as you can get the 10% up and back down daily, and THIS price? And hey, with leverage, derivatives make even the 1% bumps either way nice for speculation.


Not really what I said, but well, yes, if Bitcoin eventually fails the test of time (within which speculation had to be present), then well, the experiment was a nice journey.

Everything that absolutely bears the name of currency is prone to be associated with speculations as such thing could change in value in the future, it becomes a center of discussion, prediction and even a piece of exchange in every medium of financial negotiation.

The nature of Bitcoin cannot exist without speculation because it drives the force behind Bitcoin success story, where every buys and sells, demand and supply comes from.

Let people with doubts speculate negatively about bitcoin. True believers will stay low and quiet because they are certain that bitcoin can be trusted not just short-term but long-term. Besides, those who invest and trust Bitcoin earn profits, while doubters get nothing. For more than a decade that Bitcoin has existed, and it was enough for them to realize they were wrong. The adaptation may be slow, but at least it is consistently growing. It may take longer, but at least we are in that direction.

Well, it’s good to know you aren’t entirely new in the Bitcoin or cryptocurrency space and have done a lot with several crypto innovative projects that not only made the space stronger, it indeed improved life’s of communities, that’s a good one.

However, your subject title doesn’t really depict Bitcoin. Don’t know what you mean when you say, Bitcoin has a soul..?!


There isn’t exactly a lack of really world application except for the fact that, this aspects to its application has gone through very limited and stunted growth. This is largely due to the fact that, Bitcoin isn’t just a currency but an asset with many practicing hodling.

Which is true, if we're concerned about decentralization of bitcoin we should be participating to keep it by doing self custody, that's the only way.
If we just complaint without doing any action, then we're lying to ourselves. We're part of the retailer and the one that keep decentralization of holders.

The ETF is here to bring the inflow, DCA and self custody is the way to counter the centralization that ETF brought.

Speculation means trying to determine the price of something , a commodity or a currency ,for which there is a market. Bitcoin is particularly interesting because it can be traded on a completely free market 24 hours a day.

For example, currencies, gold, stocks, or commodities are usually traded only during business hours. Another difference is that anyone can trade Bitcoin directly, whereas trading other assets typically requires an authorized broker.This is why the Bitcoin market is much livelier and more volatile, it is driven largely by the emotions of ordinary people For example, in other markets like stocks, if a share drops by 10%, trading might be temporarily halted to let people calm down. But with Bitcoin, trading never stops, 24/7.

I recently watched a presentation by Bitwise Chief Investment Officer Matt Hougan, where he showed a long-term chart displaying major bull and bear markets with large drops. Everyone assumed it was a Bitcoin chart, but they were surprised when he said, ‘No, this isn’t Bitcoin . this is a long-term chart of gold.

https://youtu.be/c2943HNLYhc?si=fok9qNQEsE5q-1bo

First speaking of financial independence, it takes alot to attain that level of financial independence where you no longer need to work hard for money, rather money works for you while you sit back and relax in self satisfaction. I am sorry to break it to you that Bitcoin alone might not guarantee financial independence, especially in this present times. You need the long term mindset in addition to a good speculation to be able to make good profits.

Speculations has nothing to do with the control you have over your assets. You can speculate for profits, while still being in custody of your private keys. Except for people who don't really care about decentralization, they just want to make profits and that's all.