Bitcoin Forum

A lot of people still think quantum computing is something way off in the future, but honestly the pace of progress has been surprising. It’s moving faster than most of us expected.right now, bitcoin and most other cryptocurrencies are built on elliptic curve cryptography . The problem is, once a public key shows up on-chain, a powerful enough quantum computer could, at least in theory, reverse it and figure out the private key.
Now,i  am not saying this happens tomorrow,but if bitcoin does not upgrade its cryptography in the next 3–5 years, the risk gets very real. Quantum hardware is improving step by step, and once it crosses a certain threshold, the current security model won’t hold up.
We’re talking about the world’s fifth largest asset here. If it doesn’t adapt, the idea that its security could collapse almost overnight and bitcoin price will go to zero.

No, Bitcoin is not in danger. There have been more than enough topics about quantum computing and how it could be used to break classic systems, if quantum computing were to ever become more than what it is now. And that is a big IF.

I already wrote my answer to what I think about this topic in this post: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5543225.msg65391122#msg65391122

We are all scared of the boogyman that does not yet exist and may never come into existance. It is all just FUD, as I see it.

@OP: please read and comment in one of the NUMEROUS existing threads on this. We don't need yet another...  ::)

And personally, myself and many many other knowledgeable folks here do NOT think it is imminent danger from QC. Yes eventually something will need to be done in the coming decades but not right now.

Okay I think post like this on quantum risk and shii is getting too much
Where did you get the info that in the next 3-5 years a quantum machine that can do those would be existing?
I still can't recall why only Bitcoin
When it's not the only secure system that faces the risk of quantum technology
Banks, government and other big institutions face the threat of the growth in quantum technology.

If you're just about Quantum Computers, let me tell you we're still off by 10 years before we get quantum processing power that can crack Cryptocurrencies and pose Tremendous Risk to Bitcoin, however it's best to be safe, always invest in a large diversified Portfolio and keep your coinz in a ledger or a physical/Cold wallet,  there will be time for bitcoin to be in shambles, but knowing people, it'll get back up very fast, back on its' feet, unless there were to be a third impact like Satoshi's address being milked, or third parties like (blackrock, Vanguard, Tesla, MGSN, Etc) manipulating the markets (which is already happening by the dozen bundles), Bitcoin is by People, For People, we should not let Major Corps hold a large sum of it, or else we're talking Monopoly. today they hold around 16% of the total Bitcoin Vol there is (with other corps not mentioned here ofcourse), If they decide to bond and sell at once, bye bye bitcoin for a couple months, blown back 10 years, probably sit at 40K, but ofcourse most people will see this as an opportunity to HODL even more Bitcoin, which can be very profitable in a couple years time.

another thing that can be risky for Bitcoin is probably non-adoption, if people decide to put their money elsewhere, we're talking shorter daily trades, lesser volumes, but for that to happen we're looking at a new cryptocurrency that has better utility and safety than Bitcoin, with the variable of how many coins there is as a maximum supply

So you expect us to have some quantum hardware that can break elliptic curve cryptography in 3-5 years? How did you come to that conclusion?  You mentioned a certain threshold. Do you even know what threshold you are talking about?  Most experts and big tech companieslike IBM and Microsoft are on a timeline that has this happening between 2035 and 2045.  The consensus is that the odds of such a quantum computer existing before 2035 are almost nil.

And you think bitcoin would be allowed to face any difficulties?
I don't think so because, whenever the developer noticed any turbulence within the network then there could be possibility for upgrade, and such would never happened that soon. Beside I don't imagine seeing bitcoin price dropping to zero due to the strong development of an altcoin project which I think might not even hold a strong position for long.

If you’re not an expert who can really see the vulnerability of the network with quantum computing, then I suggest don’t panic and don’t just believe everything you read. Bitcoin adoption has been growing, and more institutional investors are trusting it. Even some countries are already considering it as part of their national reserves.

Now think about it, do you really believe they don’t know about quantum computing? The question is, why would they still invest if they see it as a real threat? That’s just simple logic.

It is not, stop opening these stupid threads already. This forum badly needs a demerit system.

Exactly.

This is just a mere speculation without any proven statistics to back up your allegations about Bitcoin, claiming if it doesn't have an upgrade, it's likely to crash in next 3 to 4yrs. Because the truth of the fact is that we have had many people make such allegations about Bitcoin being in danger and yet Bitcoin crosses the said deadline. Which literally shows how independent Bitcoin is as a decentralized digital currency, whose existence not tied to whatever cryptography upgrade.

People tend to focus only on Bitcoin, but they often overlook the fact that cryptographic systems are not used solely by Bitcoin, but by many sectors globally. This is not just a Bitcoin issue, but a global one.
In particular, regarding the development of quantum computers, as far as I know, their progress is still largely based on projections. So far, we haven’t seen any real implementations that truly threaten modern cryptographic systems.
So this shouldn’t be overblown, because even though quantum computers are developing rapidly, developers have already considered solutions to anticipate such possibilities.

I’ve been seeing a lot of threads like this popping up, so I wouldn’t be surprised if one day a new altcoin called “Quantum Coin” shows up.  :D

@OP. There has been a lot of scary threads like this made 5-6 years or more ago. Talking about quantum computers and how it can decode the private keys and wallets of everyone.

And they've also mentioned that it's in the near future but where are they now? I am not looking for a fact that I want them to decode already but, it's been talked a lot before and it's putting scare to some that don't have trust to Bitcoin's network.

And look up until now, it is still standing and going strong. We can't deny the fact that quantum computing is already here but I don't think btc developers are just sitting around not to do anything to combat this threat. Given that this market may indeed face its absolute phase, but for now, let us take advantage of what it can offer to the people.
So before such threat happens or can totally eradicate this market, I am sure that the btc developers already found a way how to mitigate and stop such threats. For now, enjoy the opportunities that it brings to the market and be grateful that we have crypto in today's generation.

If quantum computers is a threat, China has got it already and the tech giants that we know of and have been part of our daily lives, they have it for sure.

Whether it's their goal or not, they are able to based on what these people are talking about and how they define what quantum computers are.

We've got enough of the scare that they've said long time ago and that's why, for those who have heard of it already. This is a little to be worried with.

I don't think that we will be in danger about quantum computing or hardware. But for sure, Bitcoin developers have been discussing the possibility in the future about quantum computing and could be developing a counter-measure. They are not ignorant of this issue.

And if you look at it the solution is very simple: replace the vulnerable cryptography with quantum-resistant algorithms.

Threads to read:

• Emerging Solutions for Quantum Computing Threats (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5469172.0)
• Quantum Computers Can Not Defeat Bitcoin, not even The Bitcoin Network (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5472673.0)
• Bitcoin will be vulnerable to Quantum Computers in about 2 years (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5434706.0)
• Quantum computing and the future of bitcoin. (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5502389.0)

Discussions on possible security threats from quantum computers are not new and have already been discussing in many recent years. I don't mind too much about it as I know Bitcoin is a decentralized project that is built up by a decentralized developer community with full capacity of making necessary upgrades to deal with quantum computers and it won't be beaten and broken by quantum computers.

In Bitcoin I trust.
In Bitcoin decentralized developer community, I believe.

Bitcoin will soon increase its rank to higher onethan the fifth position, and discussions are about Bitcoin without its past, present and future rank in market cap.

If I remember correctly, bitcoin, banking systems and government security systems all use the same algorithm like SHA-256, ECDSA or AES, and just different implementations. But the funny thing is that the media continues to report and warn about the risks that QC can pose to bitcoin and cryptocurrencies. No article or news about the development of QC can harm the security system of banks, governments. Obviously, someone is deliberately spreading this misinformation with the intention of attacking the crypto industry, rather than giving a real warning.

Yeah this kind of fear mongering reeks FUD.

Bitcoin being quantum resistance is definitely a good thing but quantum computer are still dealing with the error from quantum tunneling, decoherence, and high error rates.

I'm pretty sure we're still far from quantum computing and even if quantum computing exist, shouldn't the tradfi sector be more worried because thats where it's the most vulnerable.

First, the price of bitcoin may be affected by quantum computer being able to be used to get access to some coins but know that bitcoin price is never going to zero.

Second, know that there are post quantum proposals already. Let us see how this would be.

Third, make sure you do not reuse bitcoin address so that you will not be affected if something like that happens.

There has been a lot of discussion about this issue as well as rumors that QC can harm bitcoin have been circulating for years, this is not new. But as you can see, everything is still just rumors (FUD), nothing more.

So no offense, but I think if you don't believe in Bitcoin, you believe it's in danger and will one day be wiped out by quantum computers. You just sell all your bitcoins and leave the market, you will be safe.

Even if big corporations that developed quantum computer can solve the encryption, doesn't necessarily means they will do it. There's legal problem that follows.
However I see it as just another fud like everybody else in this topic, it's the same like china bans bitcoin fud, since that doesn't work anymore now the bitcoin haters are switching narrative to QC, something that most of them don't even know.

I'm still holding my bitcoin tightly much like how Microstrategy, Blackrock, and bunch of other big players are doing, I don't think it's a concern for now.

Bitcoin has been under threat for its entire existence. If at first these were threats from governments (which is gradually decreasing), then in the future new threats may arise, such as quantum computers or something similar, related to the development of technology.

And how do you imagine the "adaptation" of bitcoin will look like? Rewrite the entire source code and launch the project anew using modern technologies that can protect against quantum computers or something like that? From a technical point of view, bitcoin is already outdated, and over time it will become even more outdated. But nothing can be done about it, since people "believe" in this asset in the form in which it is. Bitcoin 2.0 (as a way to refresh bitcoin from a technical point of view) will be like another fork - no one needs it and useless for the general public.

Theoretically, the price of bitcoin can fall to zero from any news. Something similar has happened more than once in the past, with the caveat that the price did not fall to zero, but still, the falls were very significant.

So what are we worried about? Post-quantum cryptography options have already been created. The whole question will be how costly it will be to implement the new cryptography in terms of replacing equipment, if necessary. To find a private key using a public key, over the entire key space (not over a separate range, unlike in the famous puzzle), you need to have a computing power of several thousand qubits, and add twice as many qubits to correct errors. At least, that's what I read somewhere about Shor's algorithm. In my opinion, this level of progress is still far away (more than 5 years).

Bitcoin is not in danger. Even if that comes, the developer will have a way out to solve that matter. Quantum computers are still in development and may not be available to the public soon so that gives time to the developers to prepare all things necessary. Maybe in theory, a quantum computer can figure out the private key but still, that will not happen so soon.

To be honest, I don't imagine what will happen in the future because that is beyond my expectations. I will let it come and see the solution that will come from the developer. I believe Bitcoin can handle this especially since we have many capable developers behind Bitcoin that will make sure everything runs well.

This is just one of many FUDs spread by enemies of Bitcoin.
When it comes to quantum computing  I’m not an expert in that field, but I’ve listened to people who are. Quantum computing that could actually threaten Bitcoin is at least 50, and probably even 100 years away.

Another thing traditional banking and fiat systems are much more vulnerable to quantum attacks than Bitcoin.
So, when we start seeing banks, Visa, Mastercard, and other fiat institutions upgrading their systems to be quantum-resistant  that’s when we’ll know the threat is getting real.

And even then, they’ll need to do it 20–30 years before Bitcoin does, because Bitcoin’s cryptography is already much stronger and more robust.

Really, are you afraid? I am not at all. I will say don't worry; if something like this happens, we can hard fork the Bitcoin blockchain to upgrade it. Bitcoin developers aren't just sleeping. And even if quantum computing systems become true, that would take a couple of decades. This isn't really easy to calculate using the Elliptic Curve Digital Signature Algorithm (ECDSA). I will advise you to engage in some other discussions on the forum that has been created about quantum computers.

The current quantum computing system isn't enough to break ECDSA right now. Because the current quantum computer has a few thousand noisy qubits, and if it does want to break ECDSA, then it needs at least millions of physical qubits. In the meantime, I believe Bitcoin developers will find the solution to quantum threats. A lot of institutional investors are involved with Bitcoin; before something happens, they will work together with Bitcoin developers. So stay calm.

OP, I would say your worries are unnecessary.

While none of us are QC experts and cannot provide conclusive evidence that your concerns are unfounded. But I want you to know that big institutions are managing trillions of dollars like Blackrock or top tech companies like MicroStrategy, Tesla. They have a team of experts and I believe they would not be stupid enough to pour billions of dollars into bitcoin without doing thorough research on it.
It can be said that the fact that corporations, organizations and even governments are investing in bitcoin is the clearest proof of how safe bitcoin is and there is no threat from QC as many rumors you are reading and spreading.

So focus on accumulating bitcoins, don't waste time worrying about its safety, because bitcoins are very safe.

What danger? I disagree with you and anyone who thinks QC can be dangerous for bitcoin.

Theoretically, it is not wrong to say that QC could threaten bitcoin as well as the entire crypto industry, but we also need to be realistic that, so far, it is all just theory and rumors. QC has never, not even once, posed a real threat to bitcoin in the past 16 years and will not even be able to harm bitcoin in the next decade. That means Bitcoin technology is decades ahead and many times more advanced than quantum computers.

Quantum computing is a slow technology, it is not as advanced and superior as many people are hyping it to be. Because if it were really that superior, it would threaten Bitcoin already, without having to wait another few decades.

Bitcoin currently can be analyzed from various perspectives, considering some potential risks and opportunities.

Bitcoin price has been fluctuating , with a recent decrease, this valatility can be attributed to factors affecting the market and global economic conditions and development.
Some of the factors affecting Bitcoin price are Regulatoryenvironment,micro economic conditions, market sentiment

Yes the changes in investors attitude and emotions can affect Bitcoin, investors should always stay informed and adapt to changing market condition.
 Untimely whether Bitcoin is in danger or not I think that
Depends on one perpertives and Risk tolerance.

But how do you know that no one is working to improve bitcoin's security? The more it becomes popular, the more people gets interested to work in the crypto industry. Now Information technologists or developers are very in demand and many students are getting more interested. So I at least have some hope towards the new generations that they can find ways to improve and even make bitcoin's security a lot stronger or strong enough to work against challenges like you have mentioned.

To be honest, they should be afraid of their money stored, the existence of quantum computers will make bitcoin the safest assets, because logically banking is easier to break, because the banking system of the security system is not as long as it is on Bitcoin.

The people were not aware of their position, they frightened Bitcoin but had no awareness of the security of their money at the bank.

Oh look, it's THIS thread again!  ::)

You think bitcoin teams are folding their hands since they heard this news of quantum hardware computer, since you know bitcoin have you see long bullish season like this one that touched $124k? So just relax your mind about the information that will not come to reality in three years time or five years time because bitcoin price has frustrated their plan already, and even though it comes out in the future, it will not have the capacity to expose users privacy keys, I believe you know that majority of world leaders are storing their funds in bitcoin these days and they will not sign any agreement documents that will make quantum hardware computer to exist global.

Bitcoin was "in danger" 10 years ago and Bitcoin is still "in danger"(according to multiple doom and gloom prophets, who keep spreading FUD).
When quantum computers becomes a thing, do you really believe that the Bitcoin developers would just sit and do nothing?
What about online banking. I'm not an expert, but I do believe that it's totally possible for a quantum computer to just brute force and find out your bank account credentials. What happens with online banking, when quantum computers become a thing? Nobody asks that question, but everyone is really "concerned" about Bitcoin being "destroyed by quantum computing".
And no, I'm not one of the Bitcoin maximalists, who believe that Bitcoin is perfect and BTC will exist forever. Nothing is perfect and nothing exists forever in this universe.

Some people cry more than the bereaved. The government, banks, airlines, and major industries should be more worried about quantum computing than Bitcoin.

There is still time to devise countermeasures against the threat of these powerful computers. Hopefully, the Bitcoin system will be a transition to post-quantum cryptography.

Although I don't believe in quantum computers because everything is still just rumors, so far. But I think if it can pose a threat to the banking system, bitcoin will be hard pressed to avoid those threats as well.
Banking is a centralized system and upgrading becomes easier when it does not require community consensus, and is protected by laws and governments. So it is very unlikely that quantum computers could threaten them.

To be fair, bitcoin and banking are the safest and most secure systems in the world because they use the same powerful algorithms, and both have their own pros and cons. So if quantum computer could decode those algorithms, both would be at risk, not just one.

The media mentions existing quantum computers.
Is it possible to run a solver for some elliptic curve with toy parameters on one of them,
which would require about a dozen operations on a classical computer? With technical details.

Every single user who responded to this thread seriously is a dirty spammer. No surprise there.  ::)

I really do understand what you are saying about quantum computers, however I believe it is too early to be entertaining such fears that quantum computers will make bitcoin cryptography to become vulnerable to attacks. There is no doubt that there has been an improvement in quantum computing but it hasn't gotten to were it can make bitcoin cryptography susptible to attack. I believe before such occurrence would be possible bitcoin developer would have advanced to a more higher form of Cryptography that even quantum computers can't break. So it won't be easy  to make the price of bitcoin to collapse overnight.

Although it is still in the research stage today, it is not impossible to create such things. Similar things have happened in the past. When we wondered whether iron could fly safely in the sky, people in the past also thought the same way before understanding the technology. However, once it was created and succeeded, everyone became believers.

We might be talking about the encryption system used by Bitcoin and also by banks. If banks use the same encryption as Bitcoin, it is likely that it would be resistant to quantum computers or at least difficult to hack. However, if they do not, it would not be difficult to hack, even if protected by regulations.
Precisely because it is centralized, the money in banking is not in a secure state where they have control over the money you own; they can freeze or manage your money as they please.

My friend, there's nothing easily broken about the current system. A quantum system requires over 10 million qubits (a "bit" that can be "0" or "1" simultaneously in superposition) for a Shor algorithm. IBM Condor currently has a little over 1,000 qubits. In my opinion, even at best, we're still around 15 years away. Furthermore, as we all know, we've received SegWit and Taproot updates for Bitcoin. With SegWit, we've made wallets much cheaper and more cost-effective. As a community, we already have developers working on quantum issues. Simply put, with a new BIP, quantum wallets could come into our lives. Satoshi was so forward-thinking that he constantly gave the community the opportunity to push Bitcoin forward with new additions. This alone demonstrates that Bitcoin isn't selfish, but something created for the community.

The field of quantum computing is not yet fully ready for use:  McKinsey  estimates that 5,000 quantum computers will be in operation by 2030, but the hardware and software needed to tackle the most complex problems will not be available until 2035 or later.

I don't feel panicked at the moment, because thinking too much about fear makes you stupid. Honestly, I think we need to be smart and find the best sources for reference. Quantum computers are not a serious problem for crypto users. Although I do think that technology will become more sophisticated, I also think that Bitcoin will reach a consensus to survive. IMO


Source: https://mitsloan.mit.edu/ideas-made-to-matter/quantum-computing-what-leaders-need-to-know-now#:~:text=The%20current%20field%20of%20quantum,to%20a%20November%202022%20report.

Bitcoin is already quantum resistant. Being able to quickly generate endless amount of keys, and not holding large amount of bitcoins in single or not-very-secured address that it becomes economically attractive to attack, is a feature/method that makes it extremely difficult or non-viable for the most powerful current and future computers combined to attack.

Why bother about something which might never happen? These are just pointless assumptions as of now which is why it's best to focus on the present issues such as centralization,  manipulation etc op.

BTC has survived so many huge obstacles so far and it will continue doing so somehow until the end of time if you ask me. Live in the present people.

Sometimes, when you see the comments of many people on bitcoin, it seems that bitcoin is going to be destroyed in a day or two. But they don't know or see where Bitcoin's journey has come from and where it is today. Bitcoin has gone through many bad times and has gradually become stable. This journey was not so easy for bitcoin, and suddenly someone comes and thinks like this. Then it really gets upset, and they sit around making baseless comments.

This becomes a topic for years now but to avoid this kind of discussion, you better research first if it's really possible or maybe ask AI about the info if you're lazy enough to deep dive information. In just few clicks, you can literally know all the information that it's still impossible even for few years and the core team are doing something about this to secure BTC.

I get it, majority of the media outlets are creating articles about quantum computing but of course you can also search about it if it's feasible. Of course, as a part of the crypto community, research is very crucial, we need to be updated about knowledge.