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Economy => Economics => Topic started by: Die_empty on August 29, 2025, 03:51:51 PM



Title: The struggle for rare earth metals.
Post by: Die_empty on August 29, 2025, 03:51:51 PM
Crude oil and gas remain relevant mineral resources but we are gradually seeing another dimension of the struggle for resources. The invasion (https://www.cirsd.org/en/horizons/horizons-winter-2025-issue-no-29/the-mineral-wars) of Ukraine by Russia has been associated with the quest for these rare earth metals. Other struggles that could have been related to the drive for these raw materials are the coup in some part of West Africa (https://www.bradley.com/insights/publications/2023/08/africa-and-the-global-race-for-critical-minerals), Donald Trump's intention for the US to take over Greenland (https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c9d5jwvw9nlo) and the US support deal with Ukraine (https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/ukraine-revamps-minerals-sector-eyes-billions-investment-us-deal-2025-05-27/).

I became interested in this topic because of the current happenings in my area. We started seeing an increase in the population of foreigners (mainly Asians) around our community. Most of them are engaging in illegal mining of materials that we don't know. Some of them were arrested and we later discovered that they were mining some rare earth metals.    

Rare earths (https://www.reuters.com/markets/commodities/what-are-rare-earth-metals-why-are-they-demand-2025-02-26/) are a group of 17 elements, including 15 silvery-white metals called lanthanides, or lanthanoids, plus scandium and yttrium. The rare minerals can be divided into strategic and critical. According to the European Union (https://www.reuters.com/markets/commodities/eus-hunt-critical-minerals-2023-12-18/) there are 34 critical raw materials of which 17 are designated strategic.

It is strategic when it is important to the transition to green technologies as well as for the defense and aerospace industry. These materials are highly needed because of a growing global demand, driven by the decarbonisation (https://single-market-economy.ec.europa.eu/sectors/raw-materials/areas-specific-interest/critical-raw-materials/critical-raw-materials-act_en) of economies.

https://ekotox.eu/wp-content/uploads/2025/01/raw-materials.png Source (https://ekotox.eu/critical-raw-materials/)
34 critical raw materials (17 of which are considered as strategic raw materials (dark yellow))

The fight for these materials (https://www.essentialminerals.org/insight/rare-earth-minerals-our-most-strategic-mineral/#:~:text=Simply%20put%2C%20rare%20earth%20minerals,required%20demand%20in%20the%20future.) is fierce between the world powers because they are essential for the production LCD screens, lasers, headphones, microphones, smartphones, space rockets, satellites, defense, and even in some modern cancer treatment drugs. These metals are China (https://www.reuters.com/world/china/chinas-rare-earth-weapon-changes-contours-trade-war-battlefield-2025-06-06/)'s most powerful bargaining power in the tariff negotiation with the US. You can find more of the uses of these rare earth metals here (https://www.cummins.com/news/2021/04/19/what-are-tech-metals-and-rare-earth-elements-and-how-are-they-used).


Title: Re: The struggle for rare earth metals.
Post by: Felicity_Tide on August 29, 2025, 05:17:16 PM
~snip

I became interested in this topic because of the current happenings in my area. We started seeing an increase in the population of foreigners (mainly Asians) around our community. Most of them are engaging in illegal mining of materials that we don't know. Some of them were arrested and we later discovered that they were mining some rare earth metals.    

Moving to another country to extract rare materials without permission already tells that there are flaws in the system.
Some parts of the Asian and Western world has always find interest in other people's rare earth metals, especially in those third world countries. What if someone was actually paid?. It happens a lot in so many third world countries. These foreigners makes a deal with either the government or anyone in charge, in exchange for their earth metals.

Majority of these third world countries don't even utilize these rare metals, which automatically gives advantage to the Asian and western world that knows how to utilize them well. The thing is, all focused has been channeled to Crude. Only a few knows how important these rare earth metals are, and they tend to dominate in that area.

Rare earths (https://www.reuters.com/markets/commodities/what-are-rare-earth-metals-why-are-they-demand-2025-02-26/) are a group of 17 elements, including 15 silvery-white metals called lanthanides, or lanthanoids, plus scandium and yttrium.

This reminds me of the good of days in Chemistry class.
I only learnt 30 out of the 100+ elements in the periodic table because they were often used in calculations. Rare elements were a bit far,  so I showed less interest, and I think scandium is the only transition element that also happens to be a rare earth metal, but never heard of yttrium before.


Title: Re: The struggle for rare earth metals.
Post by: Ucy on August 29, 2025, 05:56:48 PM
Coup against the then Ukrainian President who is probably from Donbas was part of the root causes of Russia intervention in the regions and Ukraine, rather than so called rare earth metals. Crimea decided to become part of Russia through democratic means, a referendum, after the coup. And Donbas was subsequently invaded by Ukraine, and then began a war between Donbas and Ukraine before Russia finally intervened in 2022 to protect donbass and others. Had Russia provoked the coup and the war against Donbas, the whole thing would look suspicious. But it wasn't provoked by Russia which means Russia likely never anticipated having Donbas and others under her protection in order to mine rare metals. It was coup which was done for the purpose of full capture of Ukraine by pro western forces.

As far as I can tell there were attempts to address the issue between donbass and Ukraine, with Russia and others acting as mediators, but recommendations such a decentralization of control of donbas was not implemented. That would have given Donbas some degree of autonomy or independence from Ukraine.



The West Africa coups were as a result of weakening influence of West in the region and the escalation of security issues. It was actually predicted to happen due to the weakening influence. The stronger power which was Russia had to step in after the new West African leaders sought for her help against the terrorism in the region, and some kind of protection from French and others


Trump interest in Greenland was mainly due to growing presence of China, and to some extent Russia.


And USA deal with Ukraine for the resource was a compensation for the hugh free money and military assistant given to Ukraine for the the unprofitable war with Russia.


The primary reasons for the world issues you highlighted are not rare metals but the issue of injustice, rejection of hostile/immoral foreign influence, insecurity,etc.
Natural resource such as rare metals can be found everywhere on Earth. They could aswell be blamed for the cause of such crisis in any part of the world


Title: Re: The struggle for rare earth metals.
Post by: Dunamisx on August 29, 2025, 06:20:37 PM
https://ekotox.eu/wp-content/uploads/2025/01/raw-materials.png Source (https://ekotox.eu/critical-raw-materials/)
34 critical raw materials (17 of which are considered as strategic raw materials (dark yellow))

The fight for these materials (https://www.essentialminerals.org/insight/rare-earth-minerals-our-most-strategic-mineral/#:~:text=Simply%20put%2C%20rare%20earth%20minerals,required%20demand%20in%20the%20future.) is fierce between the world powers because they are essential for the production LCD screens, lasers, headphones, microphones, smartphones, space rockets, satellites, defense, and even in some modern cancer treatment drugs. These metals are China (https://www.reuters.com/world/china/chinas-rare-earth-weapon-changes-contours-trade-war-battlefield-2025-06-06/)'s most powerful bargaining power in the tariff negotiation with the US. You can find more of the uses of these rare earth metals here (https://www.cummins.com/news/2021/04/19/what-are-tech-metals-and-rare-earth-elements-and-how-are-they-used).

It is better that we start to appreciate what nature has for us in abundance, because some are not having the privileges other countries are having when it comes to the abundance of natural resources, especially the crude oil and other natural elements found in abundance, we keep exploring them and using them, not minding if they could actually one day be in extinction or not, but because they are what the nature offers to us, we cant deny their abundance to humankind, because if it were to be man, things could have gone wrong soo much to an extent we cant have more access to them.


Title: Re: The struggle for rare earth metals.
Post by: Ucy on August 29, 2025, 06:28:01 PM
Excerpt from Wikipedia on the democratic referendum by Crimea to join Russia
Quote
The official result from the Autonomous Republic of Crimea was a 97 percent vote for integration of the region into the Russian Federation, with an 83 percent voter turnout, and from Sevastopol there was also a 97 percent vote for integration with Russia, with an 89 percent voter turnout.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Crimean_status_referendum#:~:text=The%20official%20result%20from%20the,an%2089%20percent%20voter%20turnout.

Majority of Donbas voters voted to join Russia too. This is about a legitimate right to be free from injustice and oppressive forces not about so called rare earth


Title: Re: The struggle for rare earth metals.
Post by: WillyAp on August 29, 2025, 06:33:04 PM
It's not the rare earth which is lacking, the processing is the issue. In a world where there are no enemies the market rules the material is processed where it is cheapest. In an increasingly belligerent world a country needs to pay for processing if they like to have those materials. 


Title: Re: The struggle for rare earth metals.
Post by: Fortify on August 29, 2025, 07:01:15 PM
If you dig a little deeper below the surface (excuse the pun), you'll find that while they have the label "rare earth metal" the majority aren't actually that rare. They can be extracted in lots of other locations, but they are often discarded byproducts of different mining operations. In order to extract the rare elements you need to build extensive refining systems which require a lot of capital upfront. China created these processes and scaled them up massively, but they are replicable elsewhere. The only reason other countries did not both was because they can be rather messy, toxic and China was previously a pretty reliable supplier of raw ingredients - but now they're stuck in a trade war they've decided to restrict the flow


Title: Re: The struggle for rare earth metals.
Post by: fillippone on August 29, 2025, 08:05:54 PM
If you dig a little deeper below the surface (excuse the pun), you'll find that while they have the label "rare earth metal" the majority aren't actually that rare. They can be extracted in lots of other locations, but they are often discarded byproducts of different mining operations. In order to extract the rare elements you need to build extensive refining systems which require a lot of capital upfront. China created these processes and scaled them up massively, but they are replicable elsewhere. The only reason other countries did not both was because they can be rather messy, toxic and China was previously a pretty reliable supplier of raw ingredients - but now they're stuck in a trade war they've decided to restrict the flow

Recently, a huge reserve of rare Earth was discovered in Sweden. This deposit could be worth billions and shift the geopolitical balance between Europe and China. Yet that deposit won't be dug and used due to enormous environmental concerns about mining operations. The cost for a clean extraction would be too high.


Title: Re: The struggle for rare earth metals.
Post by: Churchillvv on August 29, 2025, 08:26:31 PM
I recently learnt new things about the struggle in Africa especially my country Nigeria, that the poverty we face isn’t just a mere cause of bad leadership but also a structure raised and maintain by some countries that claims to be superior for reasons that are not justifiable like causing chaos and crisis or even wars in other countries through some so called AID organizations like the IMF, etc However, the core reasons for trying to provide such help is to in-debt the countries with this rare mineral resources especially crude oil and some metals to keep them in a situation where they will keep asking for help while they illegally mine and export resources which would have been used to enrich this countries like Nigeria to themselves, especially the use which has been found to be a major sponsor of a terrorist group called boko haram using the USAID organization while they go ahead to mine Tons of Golds in this regions.

Perhaps, it’s now clearer to us that no country wants to genuinely help every one is after the resources in this countries which they indirectly destabilize.


Title: Re: The struggle for rare earth metals.
Post by: Accardo on August 29, 2025, 09:01:30 PM
In this era of computer chips the semiconductor industries are the hottest and make the most money, and rare earth enhances the production of semiconductors. That was why Trump told Zelensky to pay back the money they owe USA with rare earth. The US government wants to dominate the semi conductor industry, and have companies from Taiwan (TSMC) build plants in the US to avoid tarrif.

The demand for rare earth is very high and miners would go extra mile to get them, many of them are walking down to different African countries in search of the material. It's wrong to steal raw materials without the consent of the government and the chief owners of the land. I often wake up to news of foreigners getting arrested and deported back to their respective nations.


Title: Re: The struggle for rare earth metals.
Post by: coupable on August 29, 2025, 09:11:46 PM
Coup against the then Ukrainian President who is probably from Donbas was part of the root causes of Russia intervention in the regions and Ukraine, rather than so called rare earth metals. Crimea decided to become part of Russia through democratic means, a referendum, after the coup. And Donbas was subsequently invaded by Ukraine, and then began a war between Donbas and Ukraine before Russia finally intervened in 2022 to protect donbass and others. Had Russia provoked the coup and the war against Donbas, the whole thing would look suspicious. But it wasn't provoked by Russia which means Russia likely never anticipated having Donbas and others under her protection in order to mine rare metals. It was coup which was done for the purpose of full capture of Ukraine by pro western forces.
I agree with you that the goals of Russia invading Ukraine wasn't mainly for rare earth metals, but this reason became essential later in negotation file with USA and Europe. Russia first goal is to forbid NATO from setting power army in its frontieres after Ukraine showed its ambitions to join the military ally with NATO. Putin decided to invade Cremea before invading all other regions to create like a safe armyless land between the two countries. Usually there is no single reason to start a war.


Title: Re: The struggle for rare earth metals.
Post by: Die_empty on August 30, 2025, 05:31:35 AM
Natural resource such as rare metals can be found everywhere on Earth. They could aswell be blamed for the cause of such crisis in any part of the world
Natural resources might not be the only cause of these conflicts, but at least you agreed they are part of the problem. 

Recently, a huge reserve of rare Earth was discovered in Sweden. This deposit could be worth billions and shift the geopolitical balance between Europe and China. Yet that deposit won't be dug and used due to enormous environmental concerns about mining operations. The cost for a clean extraction would be too high.
This is another aspect of the discussion. Exploration of these raw materials would cause more harm than good. One will begin to wonder which technology the US will adopt to explore the resources in Ukraine when exploration starts.


Title: Re: The struggle for rare earth metals.
Post by: abhiseshakana on August 30, 2025, 11:05:40 AM
Crude oil and gas remain relevant mineral resources but we are gradually seeing another dimension of the struggle for resources. The invasion (https://www.cirsd.org/en/horizons/horizons-winter-2025-issue-no-29/the-mineral-wars) of Ukraine by Russia has been associated with the quest for these rare earth metals. Other struggles that could have been related to the drive for these raw materials are the coup in some part of West Africa (https://www.bradley.com/insights/publications/2023/08/africa-and-the-global-race-for-critical-minerals), Donald Trump's intention for the US to take over Greenland (https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c9d5jwvw9nlo) and the US support deal with Ukraine (https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/ukraine-revamps-minerals-sector-eyes-billions-investment-us-deal-2025-05-27/).

I became interested in this topic because of the current happenings in my area. We started seeing an increase in the population of foreigners (mainly Asians) around our community. Most of them are engaging in illegal mining of materials that we don't know. Some of them were arrested and we later discovered that they were mining some rare earth metals.    

Rare earths (https://www.reuters.com/markets/commodities/what-are-rare-earth-metals-why-are-they-demand-2025-02-26/) are a group of 17 elements, including 15 silvery-white metals called lanthanides, or lanthanoids, plus scandium and yttrium. The rare minerals can be divided into strategic and critical. According to the European Union (https://www.reuters.com/markets/commodities/eus-hunt-critical-minerals-2023-12-18/) there are 34 critical raw materials of which 17 are designated strategic.

It is strategic when it is important to the transition to green technologies as well as for the defense and aerospace industry. These materials are highly needed because of a growing global demand, driven by the decarbonisation (https://single-market-economy.ec.europa.eu/sectors/raw-materials/areas-specific-interest/critical-raw-materials/critical-raw-materials-act_en) of economies.

https://ekotox.eu/wp-content/uploads/2025/01/raw-materials.png Source (https://ekotox.eu/critical-raw-materials/)
34 critical raw materials (17 of which are considered as strategic raw materials (dark yellow))

The fight for these materials (https://www.essentialminerals.org/insight/rare-earth-minerals-our-most-strategic-mineral/#:~:text=Simply%20put%2C%20rare%20earth%20minerals,required%20demand%20in%20the%20future.) is fierce between the world powers because they are essential for the production LCD screens, lasers, headphones, microphones, smartphones, space rockets, satellites, defense, and even in some modern cancer treatment drugs. These metals are China (https://www.reuters.com/world/china/chinas-rare-earth-weapon-changes-contours-trade-war-battlefield-2025-06-06/)'s most powerful bargaining power in the tariff negotiation with the US. You can find more of the uses of these rare earth metals here (https://www.cummins.com/news/2021/04/19/what-are-tech-metals-and-rare-earth-elements-and-how-are-they-used).

The world today is changing rapidly, and keeping up with these changes is equally crucial. In 1992, when China was just opening up and modernizing its industry, Deng Xiaoping said, "The Middle East has oil, China has rare earths." This phrase has since become a new "geopolitical doctrine" for China. At the time, the world was still preoccupied with oil as an instrument of power (OPEC, the 1970s oil crisis). But Deng had already foreseen that rare earths would become the new oil of the 21st century.

China immediately took strategic action by investing heavily in rare earth exploration and production. It built and monopolized refining, making the world dependent on China. It established a selective export policy, using rare earths as a diplomatic bargaining chip, and integrated industries: rare earth products went directly into domestic manufacturing (technology, energy, military). Today, more than 80% of the world's rare earth supply is still processed in China. Thanks to Deng Xiaoping's long-term vision, China has become the gatekeeper of today's most strategic minerals. In the future, there will be a shift from oil diplomacy to rare earth diplomacy, born of the transformation of the global economic structure. The primary driver of this shift is technological progress. Rare earth minerals such as lithium, cobalt, neodymium, and dysprosium are at the heart of electric batteries, solar panels, autonomous vehicles, even AI and military technology. Without them, the transition to a "green economy" would be impossible.

Countries that once dominated the OPEC region now face competition from countries possessing critical mineral reserves. China, for example, controls more than 60% of global rare earth production and over 80% of its refining. This gives Beijing a "geopolitical weapon" that is equal to, if not more strategic than, oil in the past. Developing countries in Africa, Latin America, and Southeast Asia are now the focus of attention. Like Saudi Arabia in the oil era, the Democratic Republic of Congo, Chile, and Indonesia have become new hotspots due to their abundant cobalt, lithium, and nickel reserves. Rare earth minerals are not only crucial to the economy but also to the defense industry. Missiles, fighter jets, satellites, and radar all require these materials. Therefore, control of critical minerals becomes a direct part of national security strategy.

Let's see if these countries will suffer a more updated and upgraded version of the resource curse in the future, where countries with reserves can become trapped in foreign exploitation without sustainable domestic development. In the next 10–20 years, global diplomacy will likely shift toward a mineral cartelization, similar to OPEC, but focused on lithium, cobalt, and rare earths. China will be the rare earth hegemon, while the US and Europe will be challengers. Developing countries will become the arena for competition; whoever can escape the raw material supply trap will rise to become a major geopolitical player. In other words, the global power map will be determined not by "who has the most oil wells," but by who can control the rare earth mineral supply chain that underpins future technologies. "Whoever controls rare earth minerals controls the future of global technology and energy." Chinese President-for-Life Xi Jing Ping firmly holds control of these rare earth minerals, just as America maintains the dollar. These rare earth minerals serve as China's secret weapon to prevent America from overtaking them, as the majority of America's rare earth mineral needs are supplied by China.


I agree with you that the goals of Russia invading Ukraine wasn't mainly for rare earth metals, but this reason became essential later in negotation file with USA and Europe. Russia first goal is to forbid NATO from setting power army in its frontieres after Ukraine showed its ambitions to join the military ally with NATO. Putin decided to invade Cremea before invading all other regions to create like a safe armyless land between the two countries. Usually there is no single reason to start a war.

The argument between Trump and Zelensky during his visit to America, as well as Trump's pressure on Zelensky to end the war, stemmed from Ukraine's inability to pay the war costs incurred by the United States. The rare earth mineral map Zelensky provided was based on Soviet-era mineral data and has not been verified by modern means. Most of Ukraine's rare earth reserves are based on Soviet-era geological surveys and have not been revalidated since Ukraine's independence. The majority of deposits, including those containing rare earths and lithium, are located in areas under Russian control. Zelensky offered Trump a winning plan, while the reality is that rare earth reserves are virtually non-existent. These reserves may not be economically viable due to high extraction costs and the need for advanced refining technology. Therefore, none of Ukraine's rare earth reserves are internationally recognized as economically viable.


Title: Re: The struggle for rare earth metals.
Post by: fillippone on August 30, 2025, 11:48:44 AM

This is another aspect of the discussion. Exploration of these raw materials would cause more harm than good. One will begin to wonder which technology the US will adopt to explore the resources in Ukraine when exploration starts.

The Western world has been exploiting the resources of other nations for centuries. Lastly, it was China that handled all the industrial processing. Now the Western world points fingers at China because its CO2 emissions and pollution are unbearable. Too lazy.
I am wondering how Trump's plan to recover some industrial processing power will fit into this rhetoric, but it's a long shot, versus the incredible dynamics of his positions.


Title: Re: The struggle for rare earth metals.
Post by: Lida93 on August 30, 2025, 05:46:00 PM
Moving to another country to extract rare materials without permission already tells that there are flaws in the system.
Some parts of the Asian and Western world has always find interest in other people's rare earth metals, especially in those third world countries. What if someone was actually paid?. It happens a lot in so many third world countries. These foreigners makes a deal with either the government or anyone in charge, in exchange for their earth metals.
The exploitations of rare raw materials/metals  from the third world mainly by the Western countries and later followed by some of the Asian countries  didn't really started today. What do you think was the motive for colonisation in the first instance? So they be able to have access and exploit these resources, and today we still have it in that form through a system of neocolonialism. Where some native authorities aid in these illegalities behind closed doors.


Title: Re: The struggle for rare earth metals.
Post by: coupable on August 30, 2025, 06:11:03 PM
I agree with you that the goals of Russia invading Ukraine wasn't mainly for rare earth metals, but this reason became essential later in negotation file with USA and Europe. Russia first goal is to forbid NATO from setting power army in its frontieres after Ukraine showed its ambitions to join the military ally with NATO. Putin decided to invade Cremea before invading all other regions to create like a safe armyless land between the two countries. Usually there is no single reason to start a war.

The argument between Trump and Zelensky during his visit to America, as well as Trump's pressure on Zelensky to end the war, stemmed from Ukraine's inability to pay the war costs incurred by the United States. The rare earth mineral map Zelensky provided was based on Soviet-era mineral data and has not been verified by modern means. Most of Ukraine's rare earth reserves are based on Soviet-era geological surveys and have not been revalidated since Ukraine's independence. The majority of deposits, including those containing rare earths and lithium, are located in areas under Russian control. Zelensky offered Trump a winning plan, while the reality is that rare earth reserves are virtually non-existent. These reserves may not be economically viable due to high extraction costs and the need for advanced refining technology. Therefore, none of Ukraine's rare earth reserves are internationally recognized as economically viable.

Do you mean that Ukraine had no way to encourage USA but to offer its rare metals map in exchange for logistic and military support? I think you have a point here. All the facts valid what you just said. Those metals are not economically considered accessible so neither Trump or Putin looks really interested on them. While Zelensky has no other offer to give mainly to US because he already garanted the continious support from Europe for geostrategic reasons.


Title: Re: The struggle for rare earth metals.
Post by: retreat on August 30, 2025, 09:42:34 PM
Rare earths are currently a major focus for many developed countries because they are a crucial resource for supporting several strategic industries, such as high-tech industries, defense systems, and others. The importance of these resources is growing, especially with the increasing global demand for advanced technology, leading many developed countries to pay high prices just to obtain these resources.

However, the problem is that despite the importance of these resources, not all countries have the capacity to manage them. Most countries that possess these resources, especially developing countries, are exploited by developed countries that need them. For example, my country is willing to grant the United States access to rare earth mining and exports, as a bargaining chip against high import tariffs.

While these rare earths are crucial today, developing countries that possess these resources but lack the capacity to manage them may simply become "cash cows" for developed countries that need them.


Title: Re: The struggle for rare earth metals.
Post by: abhiseshakana on August 31, 2025, 02:43:55 PM
The Western world has been exploiting the resources of other nations for centuries. Lastly, it was China that handled all the industrial processing. Now the Western world points fingers at China because its CO2 emissions and pollution are unbearable. Too lazy.
I am wondering how Trump's plan to recover some industrial processing power will fit into this rhetoric, but it's a long shot, versus the incredible dynamics of his positions.


Trump can sell this issue for domestic political gain (attracting working class and industrial votes), but in terms of execution, the US still lags far behind China in the rare earth mineral supply chain. His rhetoric is strong, but the global structure still favors China, which has already established a dirty industry with high socio-environmental costs.

Possible scenarios for Trump's future actions are:

- Simply a symbol of resistance to Chinese dominance. (Rhetoric) The emphasis remains on America First, creating the impression of protecting American workers. However, in practice, rare earth mineral processing remains difficult due to high costs in the US, strict environmental regulations, and the global industry's dependence on low Chinese prices. Ultimately, the US may only develop a small refining capacity but still send concentrate to Asia for processing.

- Coercing the domestic rare earth mineral industry with protectionism through import tariffs, subsidies, and military contracts. Civilian industries (electric cars, green energy) are also encouraged by the availability of domestic supplies, but costs remain high, making American finished products less competitive than Chinese ones. The US has seen limited growth in the military and strategic high-tech sectors, but it cannot completely replace China's dominance in the global market.

- Trump's Energy Doctrine: Return to Fossils, Ignore Green.
Trump prefers shale oil and gas as the basis of national energy, making rare earth minerals a lesser priority. Trump likely views green energy and electric cars as a global elite agenda that is detrimental to the US. In this scenario, the US mines only a limited amount and remains dependent on global supply chains (including China). This means rare earths become merely a political campaign issue, not a pillar of industrialization.

China is already far advanced in developing a rare earth mineral ecosystem from upstream to downstream, despite its high pollution levels. The US under Trump tends to be caught between political ambition and cost realities.If Trump focuses on military protectionism (scenario 2), the US could gain a new foothold. But if it falls into scenarios 1 or 3, industrial recovery will be merely rhetoric for his voter base, without overturning China's dominance.


Do you mean that Ukraine had no way to encourage USA but to offer its rare metals map in exchange for logistic and military support? I think you have a point here. All the facts valid what you just said. Those metals are not economically considered accessible so neither Trump or Putin looks really interested on them. While Zelensky has no other offer to give mainly to US because he already garanted the continious support from Europe for geostrategic reasons.

The fact is that Ukraine does not have rare earth mineral reserves as promised by Zelensky (the amount is small and if the map is updated the location of rare earth minerals is not in Ukraine but in the territory controlled by Russia). This made Trump angry and felt that US involvement in the Ukrainian war was not profitable, because Ukraine could not pay the costs of war support that had been incurred by the US.


Title: Re: The struggle for rare earth metals.
Post by: Webetcoins on August 31, 2025, 03:52:23 PM
The Western world has been exploiting the resources of other nations for centuries. Lastly, it was China that handled all the industrial processing. Now the Western world points fingers at China because its CO2 emissions and pollution are unbearable. Too lazy.
I am wondering how Trump's plan to recover some industrial processing power will fit into this rhetoric, but it's a long shot, versus the incredible dynamics of his positions.
Just because one did a bad thing, doesn't justify other doing a bad thing. Western world and their colonization is the reason why they are so rich.

If you go back a thousand years ago, the gap between Europe and Asia wasn't as big as this, but now when you look at it, it's bigger, that is because of resources being plundered by them.

Should we be okay with another nation doing that? Absolutely not, that's still bad, call for reparations if you want, but not illegal mining.

I would say, a simple solution is right there; all of western world rejects ALL Chinese companies from selling in their nations, until they fix their CO2 emissions, suddenly, China will be the cleanest nation in the world to be allowed to sell again.


Title: Re: The struggle for rare earth metals.
Post by: Sticky Bomb on August 31, 2025, 08:59:32 PM
The western world have long been exploiting underdeveloped countries of their precious metals from time immemorial, they approach with a bid to develop the countries in terms of UBE(Universal basic education) and investment into the economy of the country to deceive the common man thereby secretly reaching agreements with the corrupt leaders of such underdeveloped countries to be exploiting them of their natural resources. Countries in which their leaders refuse them, they incite some unrest in them and eliminate such leaders while making the people believe the leader was bad. They come as friends with smiling face while their intentions are not in the interest of those countries they approach.

Same reason western countries are displeased with the BurkinsFaso president's rejection of their hand of friendship knowing fully well they were after the gold richness in the country. They go around making the world believe that they are his friends and he is rejecting them while in reality the are wolves that wanted to prey on the country abundance but were casted out of the Burkina faso economy after the military takeover


Title: Re: The struggle for rare earth metals.
Post by: STT on August 31, 2025, 11:46:49 PM
Used in expensive missiles also I believe.  USA or many places could be the source of rare earths because they aren't rare, its about gigantic amounts of pollution and cheap labor that makes it possible.   I would hope there are ways to work around the exact need for such rare earths, alternate designs that rely on them less.

  I believe in time it wont quite the stranglehold it might be today, Ukraine probably should work to establish trade in this way if it stops the war via commerce that would be ideal over less productive  uses of elements like warfare.


Title: Re: The struggle for rare earth metals.
Post by: Mate2237 on September 01, 2025, 07:03:27 PM
The so called wars that are going on in the world is all about resource control the world super powers is struggling to decide which countries will become a dominant force in the world, that is why we are even seeing most of the alignments that are going on in the world because they know that any country that has control of these rare earth metals which improves in technology.



Unfortunately Africa has been on the center of these because Africa has suffered in the hands of these big countries what is disturbing to me is the way that these people has manipulated Africa leaders by corrupting them and even funding terrorism just to make sure that they destabilize the peace and unity of Africa just to make sure that they have unhindered access to these minerals.


Title: Re: The struggle for rare earth metals.
Post by: Moreno233 on September 01, 2025, 09:46:51 PM
Used in expensive missiles also I believe.  USA or many places could be the source of rare earths because they aren't rare, its about gigantic amounts of pollution and cheap labor that makes it possible.   I would hope there are ways to work around the exact need for such rare earths, alternate designs that rely on them less.
The reason they ate called rare is because they are not commonly found in large deposits in many places. The more you have them, the more it is to advance in technology. That is why wherever you see them in commercial quantity, the West will come for them even if it means creating wars in those places, they will not spare any effort to do that. That is why you are terrorism ravaging West Africa where these metals are found in commercial quantities.


Title: Re: The struggle for rare earth metals.
Post by: fillippone on September 01, 2025, 09:53:16 PM
The Western world has been exploiting the resources of other nations for centuries. Lastly, it was China that handled all the industrial processing. Now the Western world points fingers at China because its CO2 emissions and pollution are unbearable. Too lazy.
I am wondering how Trump's plan to recover some industrial processing power will fit into this rhetoric, but it's a long shot, versus the incredible dynamics of his positions.
Just because one did a bad thing, doesn't justify other doing a bad thing. Western world and their colonization is the reason why they are so rich.

If you go back a thousand years ago, the gap between Europe and Asia wasn't as big as this, but now when you look at it, it's bigger, that is because of resources being plundered by them.

Should we be okay with another nation doing that? Absolutely not, that's still bad, call for reparations if you want, but not illegal mining.

I would say, a simple solution is right there; all of western world rejects ALL Chinese companies from selling in their nations, until they fix their CO2 emissions, suddenly, China will be the cleanest nation in the world to be allowed to sell again.

It doesn’t work like that.
Firstly, China has to go through exactly the same steps the Western world took. It might be shorter in time and quicker to learn, but they have to go the full route without skipping anything.
Secondly, the kind of retaliation you suggest would immediately be broken by some opportunistic player. It’s not a credible mechanism.


Title: Re: The struggle for rare earth metals.
Post by: alegotardo on September 02, 2025, 01:57:06 AM
Crude oil and gas remain relevant mineral resources but we are gradually seeing another dimension of the struggle for resources. The invasion (https://www.cirsd.org/en/horizons/horizons-winter-2025-issue-no-29/the-mineral-wars) of Ukraine by Russia has been associated with the quest for these rare earth metals. Other struggles that could have been related to the drive for these raw materials are the coup in some part of West Africa (https://www.bradley.com/insights/publications/2023/08/africa-and-the-global-race-for-critical-minerals), Donald Trump's intention for the US to take over Greenland (https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c9d5jwvw9nlo) and the US support deal with Ukraine (https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/ukraine-revamps-minerals-sector-eyes-billions-investment-us-deal-2025-05-27/).

Do you know what saddens me most about this rush for new gold?

As you said... it greatly affects illegal mining, foreign influx, environmental impact, local communities and others. These populations that have no power to dictate rule and prevent these "invasions". But there are worse... small countries ended selling out to major powers and giving up their sovereignty on exchange for investment promises that donot materialize.

Africa, for example, suffers greatly from this. They've already accepted billion dollars deals with China and the US and in return almost nothing are done to improve the situation of the population that living there. The goverment that should protecte them ended up selling their land for a few quick dollars that ended up being misinvested or stolen from the population through corruption.

Your account touches it very important point: how local communities are affected by a global dispute that in practice is far beyond their control. This relationship between illegal mining, foreign influx and environmental impact shows how geopolitical play unfolds within the borders of countries that lack the power to dictate the rules.

Its the same old vicious cycle: a country is very rich in its natural resources, but it canot exploit them without being exploited at the same time.


Title: Re: The struggle for rare earth metals.
Post by: Die_empty on September 02, 2025, 08:07:10 AM
The Western world has been exploiting the resources of other nations for centuries. Lastly, it was China that handled all the industrial processing. Now the Western world points fingers at China because its CO2 emissions and pollution are unbearable. Too lazy.
I am wondering how Trump's plan to recover some industrial processing power will fit into this rhetoric, but it's a long shot, versus the incredible dynamics of his positions.
Just because one did a bad thing, doesn't justify other doing a bad thing. Western world and their colonization is the reason why they are so rich.

If you go back a thousand years ago, the gap between Europe and Asia wasn't as big as this, but now when you look at it, it's bigger, that is because of resources being plundered by them.

Should we be okay with another nation doing that? Absolutely not, that's still bad, call for reparations if you want, but not illegal mining.

I would say, a simple solution is right there; all of western world rejects ALL Chinese companies from selling in their nations, until they fix their CO2 emissions, suddenly, China will be the cleanest nation in the world to be allowed to sell again.
Claiming that the reason why they are not fully engaged in mining and processing is because of CO2 emissions and pollution, yet buying from China is hypocritical. For Europe to stop depending on China for these resources, it needs to get alternative suppliers. So the only way out is to get involved and make the process clean, if possible. New technologies that will make mining operations environmentally friendly would have to be discovered so that Europe can mine these resources domestically. China and Russia might have dominated the rare earth sector in Africa, but Europe can make it competitive by giving better deals.     


Title: Re: The struggle for rare earth metals.
Post by: Emjay24 on September 03, 2025, 11:16:53 AM
~snip

I became interested in this topic because of the current happenings in my area. We started seeing an increase in the population of foreigners (mainly Asians) around our community. Most of them are engaging in illegal mining of materials that we don't know. Some of them were arrested and we later discovered that they were mining some rare earth metals.    

Moving to another country to extract rare materials without permission already tells that there are flaws in the system.
Some parts of the Asian and Western world has always find interest in other people's rare earth metals, especially in those third world countries. What if someone was actually paid?. It happens a lot in so many third world countries. These foreigners makes a deal with either the government or anyone in charge, in exchange for their earth metals.
Sometimes these foreign companies do it smartly, but it's still robbery. Now they come into the country with one excuse of handling a different contract, then they secretly scout for where these rare earth metals are and when they detect some costly ones, they find a way of buying the properties, sealing the whole environment and secretly turning it into a mining and extraction site.


Title: Re: The struggle for rare earth metals.
Post by: The Sceptical Chymist on September 03, 2025, 02:38:50 PM
I became interested in this topic because of the current happenings in my area. We started seeing an increase in the population of foreigners (mainly Asians) around our community. Most of them are engaging in illegal mining of materials that we don't know. Some of them were arrested and we later discovered that they were mining some rare earth metals.    

It's kind of sad that I get most of my world news from posts on this forum, but nevertheless I'm thankful that there are people here from all over the globe and that members like you write about thing like the above, which would probably never be reported on the TV news where I live (so thanks).

And being somewhat of a chemistry geek, I found that pictogram (or whatever the hell you call it) informative; some of those elements I was aware of in terms of their industrial importance--like copper and the platinum group metals, but bismuth and gallium and a few others I had no clue about.  So people are just barging into your area to dig up these metals?  That has got to cause some serious tension, not to mention legal issues.  I'm trying to picture that happening in the US, and my guess is that any foreign miners might last a day before law enforcement booted them out on their asses.  Man oh man.

<snip>

Ugh....I would have merited your post, but after looking way back in your post history it seems clear you've either studied English very studiously or you're getting some help from this forum's dreaded nemesis, AI.


Title: Re: The struggle for rare earth metals.
Post by: alegotardo on September 03, 2025, 04:46:43 PM
Ugh....I would have merited your post, but after looking way back in your post history it seems clear you've either studied English very studiously or you're getting some help from this forum's dreaded nemesis, AI.

My English is basic.... At the past I used full translation and tools to write a perfect text... but I was warned about the dangers about this.
Today I use Google translate for some words or shorts sentences at my own ideas. Now I noticed that my past text have some errors.... I apologize, but I am here to practice and share ideas, not to write perfect English :P

I just sorry for lose the merits, but otherwise I am calm!


Title: Re: The struggle for rare earth metals.
Post by: jackpotmaster on September 03, 2025, 05:05:54 PM
Recently, a huge reserve of rare Earth was discovered in Sweden. This deposit could be worth billions and shift the geopolitical balance between Europe and China. Yet that deposit won't be dug and used due to enormous environmental concerns about mining operations. The cost for a clean extraction would be too high.
Classic European dumb take, slowly going towards self-destruction and irrelevance with each passing year..

It doesn’t work like that.
Firstly, China has to go through exactly the same steps the Western world took. It might be shorter in time and quicker to learn, but they have to go the full route without skipping anything.
Secondly, the kind of retaliation you suggest would immediately be broken by some opportunistic player. It’s not a credible mechanism.
Learn what? Do you really think that the Chinese think the same as the people in the West? Have you ever been to China?  ::) The problem of the Western mind is that it makes so many assumptions regarding the world, assumptions that it believes are the objective truth of reality. The Chinese will not take any such lessons from the West as there is no lesson here. Exploiting others works well. Why should they stop behavior that is the definition of capitalism?  ::) China is the next super power, and they will dictate the terms. They don't need to follow what the West wants.

And being somewhat of a chemistry geek, I found that pictogram (or whatever the hell you call it) informative; some of those elements I was aware of in terms of their industrial importance--like copper and the platinum group metals, but bismuth and gallium and a few others I had no clue about.  So people are just barging into your area to dig up these metals?  That has got to cause some serious tension, not to mention legal issues.  I'm trying to picture that happening in the US, and my guess is that any foreign miners might last a day before law enforcement booted them out on their asses.  Man oh man.
Yeah they are the less common ones, bismuth is pharma and cosmetics I think and gallium is widely used in electronics. You could hear about it if you watch some physics shows.


Title: Re: The struggle for rare earth metals.
Post by: punk.zink on September 03, 2025, 09:18:54 PM
The Western world has been exploiting the resources of other nations for centuries. Lastly, it was China that handled all the industrial processing. Now the Western world points fingers at China because its CO2 emissions and pollution are unbearable. Too lazy.
I am wondering how Trump's plan to recover some industrial processing power will fit into this rhetoric, but it's a long shot, versus the incredible dynamics of his positions.
Just because one did a bad thing, doesn't justify other doing a bad thing. Western world and their colonization is the reason why they are so rich.

If you go back a thousand years ago, the gap between Europe and Asia wasn't as big as this, but now when you look at it, it's bigger, that is because of resources being plundered by them.

Should we be okay with another nation doing that? Absolutely not, that's still bad, call for reparations if you want, but not illegal mining.

I would say, a simple solution is right there; all of western world rejects ALL Chinese companies from selling in their nations, until they fix their CO2 emissions, suddenly, China will be the cleanest nation in the world to be allowed to sell again.

It doesn’t work like that.
Firstly, China has to go through exactly the same steps the Western world took. It might be shorter in time and quicker to learn, but they have to go the full route without skipping anything.
Secondly, the kind of retaliation you suggest would immediately be broken by some opportunistic player. It’s not a credible mechanism.


REE = Rare Earth Element
REM = Rare Earth Mineral

The essence of business is maximizing profits with minimal capital. This is the application of economic principles, namely optimizing the use of limited resources (capital) to achieve maximum results or profits through effective and efficient management, not just minimal sacrifice. This is achieved by reducing production costs, seeking appropriate market opportunities, and marketing products intelligently. Free markets, as a result of liberalism and democracy, also apply economic principles: increasing market access, encouraging innovation and energy transfer, enriching consumer choices, creating jobs, and increasing foreign exchange. Although there are economic principles within free markets, such as comparative advantage, fair competition, and maximizing profits and minimizing losses, many countries perceive them differently (exploitation, new forms of colonialism, hegemony). The problem, however, is simply a different starting point. Because developed countries build their systems and developing countries follow suit, developing countries have no option but to change the established system.

Since 1840, China has experienced repeated military invasions by imperialist powers, and each war ended in defeat. However, the war against Japanese aggression united the nation for the first time and ended in total victory, restoring China's self-confidence. This victory marked the beginning of the Chinese people's journey towards independence, prosperity, and progress. China subsequently became a founding member of the United Nations (UN) and a permanent member of the Security Council, marking the first time in modern history that China participated in shaping the international order as a great power.
China's role in fighting Japan and being a key ally of the United States in the Pacific War/World War II has been largely forgotten. The memory of the war taught a bitter lesson: that underdevelopment made China vulnerable to attack, which drove China to accelerate scientific and technological innovation.

Simply put, the industrial era can be seen in America, Europe, and China. The time interval is easier to understand. Furthermore, the complexity of post-war national development is very complex, based on priorities and limitations.

For REE itself, Deng Xiaoping made it a national asset and then utilized geological and cost advantages to support domestic industrialization with a pragmatic, non-militant approach, focusing on building domestic processing capacity by preparing a large production base and processing chain. Meanwhile, Xi Jing Ping made REE a geopolitical instrument and strategic value chain: consolidation, export control/export-regime, foreign investment to secure supply & move processing capacity and technology to the BRI corridor. China also uses processing technology assistance to bind regional partners, with coverage of Africa (mine consolidation & concessions), Southeast Asia (investment and processing facilities), Eurasia/Central Asia (sources & transit), and Oceania/Latin America (strategic mines).


Title: Re: The struggle for rare earth metals.
Post by: The Sceptical Chymist on September 03, 2025, 11:37:17 PM
Yeah they are the less common ones, bismuth is pharma and cosmetics I think and gallium is widely used in electronics. You could hear about it if you watch some physics shows.

Bismuth is definitely used in pharmaceuticals like bismuth subsalicylate (Pepto Bismol, the pink stuff used for upset stomach), and for some reason there's a tiny voice ringing in my head that it might also be used in nuclear medicine--but in any case, I still had no idea that demand for it had grown.

And gallium....man, I was just re-reading Plastic Fantastic, a book about the physics fraud Jan Hendrik Schon (I don't know how to put that pair of electrons over the 'o' in his last name, as he's from Germany, lol) and early on there was mention of research being done with copper gallium selenide.  The physics of it has to do with n-type conduction, which is way beyond anything I studied in physics when I was in college, but my point is that it was studied decades ago by researchers in the semiconductor field and by this point might have actual utility in electronics--though that's just a guess on my part.

The above book is an excellent one, by the way, even if it goes back a few years.


Title: Re: The struggle for rare earth metals.
Post by: alegotardo on September 04, 2025, 12:57:18 AM
Yeah they are the less common ones, bismuth is pharma and cosmetics I think and gallium is widely used in electronics. You could hear about it if you watch some physics shows.

Bismuth is definitely used in pharmaceuticals like bismuth subsalicylate (Pepto Bismol, the pink stuff used for upset stomach), and for some reason there's a tiny voice ringing in my head that it might also be used in nuclear medicine--but in any case, I still had no idea that demand for it had grown.

~~~

Physics neverhas my favorite field, so I'm sorry cant contribute to this topic. But now that I've see you talking about it, I've come to realize how these elements can seem "harmless" or even secondary... like bismuth, which is more for medical use or the allium for electronics, but when we look it at global scale, we see what they are critically important. But only in very few countries, and they end  become important elements for sectors that sorely lack them.

I need sayd to reinforcing the initial idea of ​​the OP... local comunities are pressured to allow uncontrolled miner, whicht is sometimes even legalized but with ridiculously low money and  will later become a resource of enormous value and strategic importance.

My question... why other countryes, more serious and honest can't join this fight too? Why don't they invest in these mining countries to build local factory that process these raw materials and generates wealth instead of practically stealing them?


Title: Re: The struggle for rare earth metals.
Post by: Darker45 on September 04, 2025, 01:47:29 AM
In the game of rare earth minerals, China is significantly ahead of the US, its closest rival. Looking at the numbers--China's 70% dominance on production and 90% on refining--and considering how this battle plays a significant role in the overall war of global dominance and power, it seems the world is about to be Chinafied.

It helps that China is a dirty player that's laser-focused on the game than on anything else. It's also a big factor that they can send human robots to do the dirty job illegally in many parts of the world. And since they don't care if their citizens are sacrificed in the process, arrested in foreign countries for illegal mining, because they have an unlimited supply and people are dispensable, their dominance is continuous. But it helps that the country has so much leverage in dealing with other countries so that their citizens are simply deported once arrested.


Title: Re: The struggle for rare earth metals.
Post by: justdimin on September 04, 2025, 04:09:50 PM
Claiming that the reason why they are not fully engaged in mining and processing is because of CO2 emissions and pollution, yet buying from China is hypocritical. For Europe to stop depending on China for these resources, it needs to get alternative suppliers. So the only way out is to get involved and make the process clean, if possible. New technologies that will make mining operations environmentally friendly would have to be discovered so that Europe can mine these resources domestically. China and Russia might have dominated the rare earth sector in Africa, but Europe can make it competitive by giving better deals.     
While that is true, finances matter into this. I mean if finance wasn't an issue, we could have all these people just end up with building solar panels and wind turbines all over, in an instant, in 2 years, and would cover need of energy within, simply. Resources and finances matter. China has a lot, and sells cheap, so if Europe doesn't buy from them, they buy limited, and they buy expensive. That is why it's important to make that distinction and you are not going to end up finding that easily, it's going to be trouble.

We should expect this to take some time, but for that to work properly, we need to arrange it to be a lot different, and not like this. So focus on how to do better and get a lot better results for sure.


Title: Re: The struggle for rare earth metals.
Post by: Alpha Marine on September 04, 2025, 10:04:56 PM
It helps that China is a dirty player that's laser-focused on the game than on anything else. It's also a big factor that they can send human robots to do the dirty job illegally in many parts of the world. And since they don't care if their citizens are sacrificed in the process, arrested in foreign countries for illegal mining, because they have an unlimited supply and people are dispensable, their dominance is continuous. But it helps that the country has so much leverage in dealing with other countries so that their citizens are simply deported once arrested.

Another reason why they've been able to do this is that they always appear like friends of the countries they're taking these rare earths from, especially African countries. They paint the US and the West as the bad guys and present themselves as the saviours of the countries. They're beating the US at its own game; it's almost interesting to see.
We can see how they lead the de-dollarisation campaign, all this is part of their ploy to present themselves as the saviours of these countries the US is marginalising, meanwhile, they're doing exactly the same thing, if not worse than what the US are or was doing.

They are also very smart in using the weaknesses of these countries to their advantage. They know how cheap labour is in those countries, so they go ahead and pay very little because no matter the amount they pay, there's always a long queue of workers willing to work.
I always wonder how people see them as the good guys. There are no good guys in this game.


Title: Re: The struggle for rare earth metals.
Post by: Ivystar5 on September 04, 2025, 10:30:44 PM
So people are just barging into your area to dig up these metals?  That has got to cause some serious tension, not to mention legal issues.  I'm trying to picture that happening in the US, and my guess is that any foreign miners might last a day before law enforcement booted them out on their asses.  Man oh man.
In most African countries where illegal mining happens, there is always a catalyst to it and some facilitators whom is probably in the government or have some level of power in the countries, so it's about privatisation there has led to illegal mining to erupt to such extent and yeah sure it's perhaps enough to cause a general tension in the country yet such informations are not covered by the news or media's unlike the US where everyone is keeping an eye on the environment.


Title: Re: The struggle for rare earth metals.
Post by: Darker45 on September 05, 2025, 01:18:59 AM
~snip~

Another reason why they've been able to do this is that they always appear like friends of the countries they're taking these rare earths from, especially African countries. They paint the US and the West as the bad guys and present themselves as the saviours of the countries. They're beating the US at its own game; it's almost interesting to see.
We can see how they lead the de-dollarisation campaign, all this is part of their ploy to present themselves as the saviours of these countries the US is marginalising, meanwhile, they're doing exactly the same thing, if not worse than what the US are or was doing.

It's quite easy for them to do that because, first, the US has long been bullying other countries and, second, they come with gifts that don't carry a long list of conditions.

China would build you bridges and airports and ports without asking you to change your style of governance, improve human rights condition, boost freedom of the press, and so on. They don't care much if you're a dictator who kills dissidents in a country that treats women poorly, doesn't educate children, and so forth.

And so they're easily welcomed. And so they're freely allowed to desecrate foreign lands mining rare earth minerals.

Quote
They are also very smart in using the weaknesses of these countries to their advantage. They know how cheap labour is in those countries, so they go ahead and pay very little because no matter the amount they pay, there's always a long queue of workers willing to work.
I always wonder how people see them as the good guys. There are no good guys in this game.

They even carry with them their own laborers. That's the chinese way. Poverty in their country is so rampant chinese contractors and huge businesses enter foreign countries bringing with them their own disposable slaves who do all the dirty and inhumane jobs 24 hours a day 7 days a week.


Title: Re: The struggle for rare earth metals.
Post by: Jostern on September 05, 2025, 06:46:31 AM
I agree with you that the goals of Russia invading Ukraine wasn't mainly for rare earth metals, but this reason became essential later in negotation file with USA and Europe. Russia first goal is to forbid NATO from setting power army in its frontieres after Ukraine showed its ambitions to join the military ally with NATO. Putin decided to invade Cremea before invading all other regions to create like a safe armyless land between the two countries. Usually there is no single reason to start a war.

The argument between Trump and Zelensky during his visit to America, as well as Trump's pressure on Zelensky to end the war, stemmed from Ukraine's inability to pay the war costs incurred by the United States. The rare earth mineral map Zelensky provided was based on Soviet-era mineral data and has not been verified by modern means. Most of Ukraine's rare earth reserves are based on Soviet-era geological surveys and have not been revalidated since Ukraine's independence. The majority of deposits, including those containing rare earths and lithium, are located in areas under Russian control. Zelensky offered Trump a winning plan, while the reality is that rare earth reserves are virtually non-existent. These reserves may not be economically viable due to high extraction costs and the need for advanced refining technology. Therefore, none of Ukraine's rare earth reserves are internationally recognized as economically viable.

Do you mean that Ukraine had no way to encourage USA but to offer its rare metals map in exchange for logistic and military support? I think you have a point here. All the facts valid what you just said. Those metals are not economically considered accessible so neither Trump or Putin looks really interested on them. While Zelensky has no other offer to give mainly to US because he already garanted the continious support from Europe for geostrategic reasons.
I think the US wouldn’t be helping Ukraine and also the European Union wouldn’t be helping them without knowing there is something they will stand to achieve in aftermath of the war, we know rare metals are quite enormous in Ukraine, I think they must have promised US access to this mineral resources that is why the US seems to be helping and supporting them, and Vladimir Putin knows this things that is why he is also fighting to have possession of this land, Donald Trump meeting with Vladimir Putin they must have discussed the conditions of stopping this war, and Putin might also be asking for the lands where this reserves are, Trump would know this things and it would be a factor of stopping the war.


Title: Re: The struggle for rare earth metals.
Post by: Lucius on September 05, 2025, 10:42:43 AM
~snip~
This is another aspect of the discussion. Exploration of these raw materials would cause more harm than good. One will begin to wonder which technology the US will adopt to explore the resources in Ukraine when exploration starts.


Do you think that the US, with its current policy, will care at all about what kind of technology will be used in the mining of all those rare materials? I'm sure they won't worry too much about environmental protection, because they don't worry too much about it even in their own backyard.



~snip~
I would say, a simple solution is right there; all of western world rejects ALL Chinese companies from selling in their nations, until they fix their CO2 emissions, suddenly, China will be the cleanest nation in the world to be allowed to sell again.


That's impossible, the world depends on China much more than many people think. As many as 7 of the 10 largest seaports are located in China, and the cost of their workforce and the productivity they achieve make them extremely competitive in the world. Just look at how many smartphones are produced in China every year, and what they have been doing with their car industry in recent years is fascinating.

By the way, do you think China is not investing in renewable forms of energy?

China is the world's top electricity producer from renewable energy sources. China's renewable energy capacity is growing faster than its fossil fuels and nuclear power capacity. China Installed over 373 GW of renewables in 2024, reaching a total installed renewable capacity of 1,878 GW by the end of the year. The country aims to have 80% of its total energy mix come from non-fossil fuel sources by 2060, and achieve a combined 1,200 GW of solar and wind capacity by 2030.


Title: Re: The struggle for rare earth metals.
Post by: coupable on September 05, 2025, 07:45:31 PM
I agree with you that the goals of Russia invading Ukraine wasn't mainly for rare earth metals, but this reason became essential later in negotation file with USA and Europe. Russia first goal is to forbid NATO from setting power army in its frontieres after Ukraine showed its ambitions to join the military ally with NATO. Putin decided to invade Cremea before invading all other regions to create like a safe armyless land between the two countries. Usually there is no single reason to start a war.

The argument between Trump and Zelensky during his visit to America, as well as Trump's pressure on Zelensky to end the war, stemmed from Ukraine's inability to pay the war costs incurred by the United States. The rare earth mineral map Zelensky provided was based on Soviet-era mineral data and has not been verified by modern means. Most of Ukraine's rare earth reserves are based on Soviet-era geological surveys and have not been revalidated since Ukraine's independence. The majority of deposits, including those containing rare earths and lithium, are located in areas under Russian control. Zelensky offered Trump a winning plan, while the reality is that rare earth reserves are virtually non-existent. These reserves may not be economically viable due to high extraction costs and the need for advanced refining technology. Therefore, none of Ukraine's rare earth reserves are internationally recognized as economically viable.

Do you mean that Ukraine had no way to encourage USA but to offer its rare metals map in exchange for logistic and military support? I think you have a point here. All the facts valid what you just said. Those metals are not economically considered accessible so neither Trump or Putin looks really interested on them. While Zelensky has no other offer to give mainly to US because he already garanted the continious support from Europe for geostrategic reasons.
I think the US wouldn’t be helping Ukraine and also the European Union wouldn’t be helping them without knowing there is something they will stand to achieve in aftermath of the war, we know rare metals are quite enormous in Ukraine, I think they must have promised US access to this mineral resources that is why the US seems to be helping and supporting them, and Vladimir Putin knows this things that is why he is also fighting to have possession of this land, Donald Trump meeting with Vladimir Putin they must have discussed the conditions of stopping this war, and Putin might also be asking for the lands where this reserves are, Trump would know this things and it would be a factor of stopping the war.


From the start, it was USA who pushed toward this war. The goal is to minimize powers of Russia. The solution is to sacrifice the whole region to fight in proxy for her. What to do? Invite Ukraine to join NATO which Russia wouldn't accept enemy armies on its frontieres. Behind the scenes, Europe found itself forced to support Ukraine to forbid Russia from expanding the invasion and to curb its expanding powers as well. The whole situation is strategic based till now. The rare metals appeard later when talking about solutions to stop the war after USA and europe got convainced that it's an expensive war that no one would benefit from except the east camp. What to do? Let's arrange with Russia and blackmail Ukraine.


Title: Re: The struggle for rare earth metals.
Post by: Findingnemo on September 05, 2025, 07:59:02 PM
I watch regular updates about the current market and rare earth metals often come up in the discussion and it looks like China controls most of it that is why Trump is not being aggressive against China as he was before. And if those metals are really that important then China is already holds a huge edge and they can influence any geopolitical trade deals at this moment.


Title: Re: The struggle for rare earth metals.
Post by: abhiseshakana on September 06, 2025, 02:01:12 PM
From the start, it was USA who pushed toward this war. The goal is to minimize powers of Russia. The solution is to sacrifice the whole region to fight in proxy for her. What to do? Invite Ukraine to join NATO which Russia wouldn't accept enemy armies on its frontieres. Behind the scenes, Europe found itself forced to support Ukraine to forbid Russia from expanding the invasion and to curb its expanding powers as well. The whole situation is strategic based till now. The rare metals appeard later when talking about solutions to stop the war after USA and europe got convainced that it's an expensive war that no one would benefit from except the east camp. What to do? Let's arrange with Russia and blackmail Ukraine.

The United States never pushed Ukraine into war with Russia, nor did it invite Ukraine to participate in NATO expansion. Ukraine's domestic initiative was the primary driver of its desire to join NATO. Political support from the United States and certain NATO allies facilitated and legitimized Ukraine's desire. This, of course, met with strong opposition from Russia. Russia's reaction changed Ukraine's security dynamics and strengthened Ukraine's resolve to seek Western protection.

The large-scale invasion remained Russia's sole decision. Even before 2022, Russia had demanded legal guarantees that Ukraine would never join NATO, a demand rejected by the US and Europe as a violation of the principle of state sovereignty. The US was a key actor in supporting Ukraine after the Russian aggression, but it did not instigate the war. The narrative that the US encouraged the war was used more by Russia and its allies, including China, to justify their military action.


Title: Re: The struggle for rare earth metals.
Post by: free-bit.co.in on September 06, 2025, 02:20:09 PM
I watch regular updates about the current market and rare earth metals often come up in the discussion and it looks like China controls most of it that is why Trump is not being aggressive against China as he was before. And if those metals are really that important then China is already holds a huge edge and they can influence any geopolitical trade deals at this moment.


According to the US Geological Survey, total global rare earth production is 90 million tons. Of which, China not only accounts for 50% of the total supply (44 million tons) but is also the world's leading producer, accounting for 60% of global refined rare earth output.

But I don't think Trump is being less aggressive with China just because of rare earths, but simply because they've become so big. China is challenging US dominance in every aspect, especially in technology. They are fully capable of engaging in a full scale confrontation with the US, which is why Trump seems to be backing down from China. Because that would also cost the US dearly.


Title: Re: The struggle for rare earth metals.
Post by: Zigabel on September 06, 2025, 09:04:40 PM
But I don't think Trump is being less aggressive with China just because of rare earths, but simply because they've become so big. China is challenging US dominance in every aspect, especially in technology. They are fully capable of engaging in a full scale confrontation with the US, which is why Trump seems to be backing down from China. Because that would also cost the US dearly.
The challenge China is putting up is one that is causing the US to not slow down on the ear because they want to prevent an escalation to other aspects such as security and probably other points of authority which may cost the US their position as the world power. If China ever has a reason to engage in full scale confrontation, it is good to hit the US hard because the likes of Russia and others may want to support and it will be too much for them alone even though  they have the best of technologies.