Bitcoin Forum

I don't have much content to give here, and neither do I know in-depth about provably fairness, but little do I understand is that — provably fairness means, your rolls aren't manipulated and results of your rolls are fair (cmiiw).

Question being, if casino you play on has provably fairness checker or it gives you data that you can use on online tools to verify your bets (for ex, https://www.btcgosu.com/tools/provably-fair-verifier/) ; now how many times you actually verify your bets? And is provably fairness really important to you or can you do without it?  

On irrelevant note: For good while I read it as, 'probably fair' instead of 'provably fair'.

I think pretty much all the respectable casinos are provably fair.

That basically means that they are not manipulating the odds.

It doesn't mean that the odds are good for the gambler though, the odds are still better for the casino.

As non technical knowledge user, I don’t often verify my bet because I don’t have any idea how to verify it even by using the tool to verify it. I mean I don’t know how the system works.

I only rely to other user that keep using the games. The more players that will use means more eyes to check the provably fair system being use by the casino.

There’s always someone that will notice if the game is scam if casino attempts to tamper it. And most importantly I play only on reputable casino to avoid any issue on games PF system.

I have never checked my bets, but it is enough for me that this system exists and technically literate users will 100% find a catch if suddenly the casino starts playing unfairly. In fact, I focus only on the casino's reputation, everything else is of little importance. I think any player would avoid casinos with bad reviews regardless of whether they have provably fair or not. But anyway now it seems to be the standard for everyone.

That's a very good question because when the game has a Return To Player, for example 95% RTP, you know that you'll get back 95% of your bets and the rest 5% goes to the casino, so does it really matter whether results are fair or not? I might sound like one in a million but for me it's not super important. In general, I would love to bet on a provably fair casino because I don't want to get cheated but it's not the highest priority for me. I'm here to enjoy the process with the few bucks that I have.
By the way, RTP and House Edge guarantees casinos a profit, so, why should they be lying?

Recently I was in a small town on the border of a state where casinos are allowed, and a state borders on it where casinos are prohibited. And I saw many casinos near the station, which were in the courtyards of buildings. And I am sure that all the slot machines there are not honest. I know the mentality of the local people, and believe me, if they have the opportunity to make the game as dishonest as possible for gamblers, they will do it.

Most people does not even know what provably fair games are. Also some people know about it but almost all of them will not verify anything. They even do not know how to verify it. But I know that some people have the time to verify it but they are not many. Also it is worth to include that with the provably fairness, almost all gamblers are losing. No need to correct me about expected value or return to player, I know what they are also.

On irrelevant answer, yes, the expression "probably fair" can be a good red flag about the knowledge of the poster or the quality of the casino, depending where you read it.

Answering your main question, I don't have much knowledge nor time to verify myself the fairness of the casinos I use, but I rely on the knowledge of a great number of users more skilled than me, like when I choose open source software instead of their privative alternative. So yes, when I look for a casino I focus on 1) the user base and 2) the "provably fair" claim.

During involved on online gambling casinos i have never checked or verify my bets that because i trust the casinos where i was play so, that's why checking the reputation of the casino is more important for me rather than checking my bets whether it provably fair or not because when i play at trustable casinos automatically all of my bets potentially will be provably fair because i am sure too trusted casino will never manipulate the system to make their costumers lost because those casinos know if they do that it will ruin their reputation which eventually they will lost the trust from the players

Honestly, I dont really pay attention to provably fair or bother verifying my bets. For me, gambling is more about the fun, the rush, and the entertainment rather than digging into the technical side of things. I know some people value transparency and want to check every outcome, but personally, I don’t see the need if Im already choosing to gamble, I’ve accepted the risk that comes with it. As long as the platform feels trustworthy and I enjoy the experience, plus Im more inclined on physical casino than online one. Its quite fun and more comfortable gambling with.

Of course, that's great and important, but how can they verify it so that they can be declared truly fair in their games? Surely we must understand what indicators are reviewed by BTCgosu as evidence that a game in a casino can be said to be fair?

I am quite confident in my casino so far; there have been no irregularities in the games I have played while gambling at the casino, but I am unaware of other games available at the casino where I play, as that is not my concern.

I can bet it that many of us have not been aware of this that probably that players can actually check on access the status is their bets if they are fair or not.
As regards to my own practice, I don't either do this fairness of bets verification rather I relies on the casinos reputation in the general overview with other users reviews commentaries in the casino sites.
Basically most os us stand to believe that once a casino is said to be reputable then every of it services with their customers will be fair.


Nomatter what there is necessity to do our own research even while there are those who may tend to guide and give us updates about the platforms because the risk will always be at individuals experience which means you can be mislead or you solely rely on someone to trust the legitimacy of a casino.

Don't either be relented to see one victimized because staying concious that a trusted platform as long as it is regulated can compromise. You don't also be to trust developers with what you can not afford to loose because anything is possible to happen.

Provably fairness was a must in this industry until 2016-2018 I think. Reputable crypto dice platforms were all provably fair and they stated it on the front of their web pages, because gamblers cared about it. However, as the industry went mainstream, provably fair feature stopped being mentioned and right now I don't even know if it's still implemented.

The public was more demanding and concerned before. In fact, everything which becomes massified, doesn't maintain the same quality and efficiency of before. Internet is another good example of that. And the same goes with food brands too, so naturally it wouldn't be different with gambling industry.

Now provably fair isn't important anymore, because the social influencer's word is enough.

There is no gambler who would like to play in a casino where they know that they are being cheated. Gamblers on the platform may not take too seriously using the probably Fairness Checker tool, but the moment they start seeing complaints from other gamblers online who are being suspicious of the casino of foul play, many more people will pay attention to verifying bets.

It is important to every gambler IMO.

It’s easy to verify if everything is fair using tools and you can check everything on the blockchain if the codes are match based on the bet description.

I don’t play much probably fair games because most of the time it’s just a pure luck games and not enjoyable at all. Only blackjack is what I like on provably fair games but the rest is ignored.

Live games is much better and easy to verify since you are playing virtually against real dealer.

Well I guess someone can try this out for any new casino, they wish to play. Though I don't see it much necessary because we play on third party platforms, they can choose to do alot behind the screens just to make sure you don't win much. And since we signed up to enjoy our selfs some things at just better left unsaid. That way we can just move on with the probability of what ever we get as result we get from the games we choose to play.

For me, so I don't go through the stress of checking the probably fairness I just rather play on casinos I know. Those with alot of reputation. I usually avoid playing on new casinos due to many reasons best know to me..

I have heard so much about it but I have not been able to make anything out of it. I have been playing different slots in different and not only those that claim to be provably fair gives me more wins than others, this makes me wonderful what it actually means and why I have to make in a consideration in my gambling. In summary, I do not notice any difference in that.

As for me, casino games are not about profit, so i play just to lose some money and relax. For me it is not something important - to know if my rolls are fair. The only thing that is matter for me in such games - is to win something time to time.

The only thing i don`t like is to play card games in casino with bots, i always feel doubts if casino knows my hand or next cards we would see.

That is not important to me. I don't search for that and choose my games by feeling. Mostly I play slot games which I just check from the casino's list of games.

I don't verify my bets because that can waste my time just checking my bets. I can not enjoy my gambling time and just busy with that. Even if I check and get provably fair, I still need luck to win. So that will not be important for me.

It’s important if you are playing on casino that still new and no solid reputation since provably fair games can be used to exploit users that doesn’t know how to verify fairness of the game.

But if you are playing on reputable casino I think this is not a big deal anymore to check frequently since casino will not put their reputation on the line considering that they will surely win in the end without cheating due to house edge.

In general, it’s still advisable to regularly check whether the game is provably fair since casino usually provide checker too in the casino.

If a gambling site is manipulating, people will start to suspect from how they continue gambling but they continue to lose without a single win. Although gamblers can also notice this on all gambling sites including the ones that have provably fair games. As for me all care about is what people are saying about a casino. If they are saying it is good, having good customer service, including having good deposits and withdrawals, with trustworthy reputation, I can make use of the site.

Regardless of whether it's important or not for players, at least some casino sites do have that system.

Since it can be verified, any attempt to make the result fraudulent is unlikely to happen.

To prove something fair, you need evidence, and so far, no one can argue otherwise. But if we're talking about probabilities, like in the case of roulette, how do you prove fairness? It's simply a matter of calculating the probability of a certain number or color coming up, but that doesn't mean you have mathematical certainty of success.
In this case, how could the casino prove anything?
The same system applies to sports betting, and so the scope narrows down to games like slot machines, where probability still determines the win but is based on mathematical calculations, where the machine collects money and, as soon as it reaches the payout percentage, pays the first player randomly.
In any case, all respectable casinos do not manipulate any type of game, precisely to avoid losing their reputation.

Sometimes it could look as if it is probably but it is provably and that is casino terminology for games or odd not manipulated. Gamblers look for casino that will be fair to them and not manipulate the out come of their game or spin and if that is noticed on a casino, I believe such casino will go down because they will lose customer from the positive rating that will reduce. That's why top casinos here keep to the standard of being fair in their system. Otherwise, the reputation board is there to open an accusation thread on any casino who try to cheat on customer.

My understanding of "Provably Fair" is that the outcomes of the games are
completely random. This would also apply to Roulette since its just another
game. Particularly when its online.

---

Does it mean something to me "Provably fair" It didnt until I created my account
with the Winna.com platform and I read that its a PF one, that made me curious
about that concept, I think its only fair that a casino should be PF!

It's very important for me. I want some of my money back as much as possible, and not like I am being robbed by the online casino. I don't actually check numbers, but I do know that the highest RTP comes from Pragmatic Play.
Still, this is not an accurate measure, and they could just be showing numbers. It's up to us to check while we are playing which games has the highest probability of giving back as soon as possible while we are playing.

I dont need provably fairness in sports betting. Of course it is very important when paying casino games.

The reason why I dont care about provably fair in sports betting is because i can easily verify the outcome of the game, which is obviously in the pitch where they are playing the game. The casino cannot manipulate the outcome of the game, they can only interfere by reducing the odds or increasing the odds to mitigate the risk of losing before or in-between the game.

Yes, especially casinos with high popularity.

Proven fairness or non-rigging doesn't guarantee a gambler's win. Ultimately, losses will always far outweigh wins.

Ultimately, the house edge still far outweighs the gambler's chances of winning. We agree on this, and it's a fact.

I think provably fair is the minimum baseline that people should be accepting from any casino in the crypto space, but it's not always offered when playing things like slots - as it breaks the illusion that you have a chance of winning when the user is constantly reminded of the tilted odds. I'm not sure if there are any reputable companies out there who can give their stamp of approval and be trusted by users, or who cannot have their certification manipulated after running an audit. Maybe it would be better to stick with such games if you want to know the outcomes are not being manipulated by the casino because you might have a more guaranteed win rate that is clearly defined.

This is easiest way to avoid being scam because reputable casino makes everything transparent and fair for the sake of gaining trust of the players.

They are gaining a lot when players keep wagering on the casino in the long through the house edge and from losses of players that is inevitable.

There’s also a lot of available review online from reputable casino which you can use as basis to their reliability.

I used to verify my bets few years ago when I was still new with provably fair system, I tried it due to curiosity of my bets especially when it comes to long losing streak as well as to long winning streak.
Although I do not use it frequently, it does not mean that it is not important, fairness of the game is always important as we can check our bets when we feel something wrong with the results.
If casino claim that their game is provably fair, there should be a way to verify the results/bets so it can be used as one consideration when we want to choose a casino.

If the casino has a provable fair system then it means that the casino can be trusted and the results are not going to be manipulated. Once I found out that this is something that that casino has I don't really have to do a check everytime before gambling because I know that the casino isn't going to cheat and I would also accept the fact that winning is only based on luck. But in a case where the casino doesn't have this then there's no transparency

In general, transparency is very important to me so provably fair systems do make a difference in my opinion of places. For the games with systems that are not easily calculated by an end user (such as Blackjack) with a decent grasp on math can only be verified by regulators and that's a whole headache to expect to trust if the casino is entirely online and in a different country for example.

Offering a system that you can verify at any time goes a long way to resolving that worry and gives me confidence in any institution even if I won't necessarily verify every bet.

I think it is necessary but not all that important, if you get to know how fair your games were judged or something, it will only inform your risk mostly and your stance with such casino but asides that, nothing much will be done with the information, except for poker players and other casino games, regular sports betting and others have their fairness open as seen on the tickets you bought.  Other casino games are the ones with which you may need that provable fairness to know how much edge the casino has got over you so as to inform your strategy and risk like I mentioned earlier.

Like other members, it is not that important to me in terms of playing. I would like to play whenever I feel like it. It doesn't influence me that much, and I just refresh my seed sometimes to make sure that it's neutral in some way for my feelings. It's not a foolproof plan to profit, but it's how I play.

It takes integrities to stay fair and how do you fairness in a case like this? I guess it's how transparent the casino maybe with the public without controversy of manipulation. Having this thoughtful I'd doubt if there's even such as provable fairness.
I don't know if there was a feature that one can actually verify the fare rate of his game before finalizing your bet but even if being aware, you're still going a use tool that might not be reliable with it functions. Don't forget that such tools lie too. I don't even have time for all that, I'll only lookup towards their reputations via term's and services.

I don't check my bet if it's provably fair with the use of online tools. I just place my bet and forget about how the outcome will be play out. This is the reason why I prefer using a reputable casino for my gambling activities because I know that their system will be provably fair and there will be no manipulation on the outcome of my bet.

I love betting more on sportbet because there's no way the casino can manipulate the outcome of the matches that is been played and seen by everyone on the screen.

Since I started betting, I've never verified my bets; honestly I don't even know how. It feels like too much of a hassle. I rely solely on trusted online sites and pay attention to user reviews. For me that's enough to assure me that the games are fair. Besides I'm just a small bettor, so I don't worry too much about it.

Indeed, sometimes as a gambler, I also feel that casinos are not fair enough. Losing streaks with very few wins, and those wins being small multipliers. I also have the thought that casinos manipulate the games. But when I get a decent win, that thought disappears.
I think what needs to be arranged is our mindset. If we feel that casinos are unfair or manipulate things in favor of the casinos, it's better not to bet on casino games. If casinos have proof of fairness checks, I’m also not sure if gamblers will check them. The choice that most people make is to choose casinos with a good reputation.

Every gambling casino seems to be provably fair in their odds and this is the common mentality we also have been having towards them, but it do occur to me sometimes that even if we discover one not to be provably fair, what are we going to do, obviously nothing than to go for another gambling platform, that is even if we can afford to, all these are just unnecessary findings we may just do away with and focus more on gambling for fun.

sure bro!! provably fair is more useful in casino games where players need proof that the results are not somehow being manipulated. but in sports betting like you said!! the fairness is already shown on the ticket so it does not change that much. at the end of the day provably fair is just like an extra layer of trust for the player but not everyone bothers to check or use it anyways. the thing is most gamblers only care about if they win or lose and don’t even pay attention to how the system is working behind the scenes. but for those who play poker, slots or other casino games, knowing that the game is provably fair can give them more confidence and peace of mind. it is not as if it might stop losses!!! but at least they know the platform is not cheating them somehow, which is very important in the long run.

I believe this too. If they're lucky, they are lucky and if they lose, they'd lose. As long as it's done from a reputable casino, they won't think twice if there's provably fair applied to them because they'd mostly believe that there is.

Like OP said, there are tools. But you can do that and just check in your casino if there's a way to do it or ask the support. If you're solely relying to trust, I wouldn't blame you too if that's done on a reputable one. Although it won't bother you a lot of time by doing so.

While i am sure that most reputable crypto casinos are provably fair, it does not hurt to confirm this yourself, because it is easy to do. You can do this at the end of some of your game rounds, to ensure everything was done fairly and then you can continue playing without verifying future rounds.

However, i don't think a reputable casino that obviously has the 'edge' over their customers would attempt to ruin their reputation by rigging games and cheating their customers

Saying it's probably fair means nothing if it isn't. I don't usually check, I just deposit and bet. Maybe I'm making a mistake here and should pay more attention to the details. It's like the fine print that almost no one reads.

 
Provably fairness is something not to worry about as a gambler but then alot of gamblers are very much intentional about that due to some outcome, but if a casino tends to be trusted and reliable I feel there's more guarantee but then when i place bets sometimes I don't depend on that to get a win this why a gambler needs to get a different mindset in regards to this.

You have said it all, reputable casinos won't try to cheat the system, they will try to maintain their reputation by making sure that the games are fair. Even if customers don't check it won't matter or even if customers decide to check it will still result that they are fair with the games and they don't cheat, because they know that once they try it and the customers finds out that they will lose the reputation they have laboured so hard to build over the years. And a casino is nothing without it's loyal customers.

I also have not checked my bet before with any tool, but if such tool do exist and people use them, then it's fine by them if they are comfortable with it. But where the problem lies is that the gambler will always feel uncomfortable and cheated all the time, the gambler will not play comfortably without having the mindset that the house need to be checked if they are really Fair or not. I prefer to bet with what I can afford to lose even if am Cheated or not. Because if I use such tool to check my history, I may get heart attack. And the funny thing is that even if you are cheated by the house, you can't still do anything.

And while that's true. That doesn't mean there ain't so many other ways that casinos can actually rig their games to favour them without nobody finding out, especially when it involves casino games that are luck based, like the slot machines, the roulette and a few other games. The truth is that, it's not really possible for casinos to be 100% transparent.

I know how to check the fairness of the results and even tried it for learning purposes but it is not something I do on regular events nor do I really check whether the casino is right by saying provably fair. But this is one important thing when it comes to choosing a casino, if we can't verify the fairness then there will be some kind of hesistation with in us whenever we bet and if we lose then we may even start thinking that the casino is intentionally doing it and making me loss so to avoid this false belief and to live by the words of satoshi, "Don't Trust, verify".

The question is, if you use a tool to verify the fairness of proven bets and it is proven that the casino has indeed been cheating, what can you do in this case? Will the casino acknowledge these results, which prove the casino is cheating, and refund your losses?

Trusted casinos won't rig bets, and casinos that rig bets won't refund your money. So, what's the point of this tool? I expect it has only one benefit: casinos that use this tool are considered somewhat reliable.

While this might be a good feat to check for the fairness of the casino games, I think those considerations are for professional gamblers who are keen on verifying the nature of games they energy in to increase their profitability potentials.

Check or no check, if luck is against you, you'll still lose very well. I don't have time to verify all these. I come around this the casino with a budget and to have fun so whichever way it goes for the day, I take it as my luck.

if you have trust issues with casinos, or if you're so afraid of losing your money unfairly, there's one simple solution: stay away from gambling. yes, if you're someone who chases after your money like this, i don't think you should be involved in gambling at all. what do you expect from a game that is designed specifically to make money off you, with the odds stacked against you? i think it's all about satisfying ourselves. even though we know it's our own fault we lose, maybe it suits us that way.

casinos don't need these kinds of tricks to take your money. all they need is for you to play. you know this too. how many of us are actually making a profit in the long run from these kinds of games of chance?

I don't have the need to know if a casino is fair or not, I think that playing in one that is sufficiently reliable and has a good reputation is enough, since the house always has the advantage, and being a casino with a good reputation I doubt that they would be carried away by greed, also I believe that nowadays everything is verifiable, and that although most of us are not interested in verifying it, there will always be a certain group of people or government agents keeping an eye on this from time to time.

Professional gamblers use the provably fair algorithm alot to verify their games and know what's in for them in a specific house. Playing a casino with no provably fair or that fakes it is similar to a devious sector where the gamer has no right of their own. With that policy it strengthen the eligibility of the house and assures the gamer that they'll be credible at all times and keep to the percentage kept aside for gamblers. Provided through the policy, gamblers are clarified of always losing to the house, but would win a certain percentage of their wagered amount, it's a clear business policy that should be verified by the gamer just to be sure of the house's credibility.

For me, it's just a waste of my time, because what I hope for in gambling is just luck, and dream that one day I will get the jackpot, to be honest, I never verify and look at the details. The most important thing for me is the smoothness of the transaction.

what are normally Advice people is that you should gamble in a place that you know the method so that you will not regret after gambling, so many persons who is into gambling do not know they come of gambling there are into before the participate in gambling and that is why most of them do regret after participating in gambling, if you know that you are not good with a lot game I will advise anyone to go to the game that he or she knows quite well so that it will not experience a much loss during it participation in gambling. Why people don't make any profit for the gambling or the game the gambled on is because there are not conversant with the particular gambling the gambled with

The few times I've been involved in gambling that depend on luck, like Plinko and many others, I never checked before or after whether the game was provably fair. All I did was just put money in, choose the game, and have fun playing. I even knew before playing that it would be a losing bet. So that way, when I lost, I wouldn't get upset and I wouldn't chase losses. I also wonder how many people check to see if the game is provably fair. Maybe the number doesn't even reach 10% of all players.

Yeah it's important, provably fair is one thing that I will consider before gamble rather than license.

I might not check regularly my bets, but when I suffer lose streak that makes me angry, I will try to verify my bets. At least I know if it's fair and verifiable, so I have no accept if I was not lucky.

If people don't care with provably fair, do people don't care with RTP rate too?

I think so too, I also love to play at casinos that are used by many people, and have a good reputation, especially for some casinos that have connections on our forum, and even several times I have seen on this forum resolving some misunderstandings between casinos and their users, so I feel that some casinos that have partnerships here are highly recommended. Luckily, I have never had any problems with the casinos I have tried on this forum, so I also feel that the casinos which have partnered with this forum will maintain their reputation, I hope that this will always be the case. So, I feel that my method is also one of the safest way to choose a casino like you do, so, we can also find out some information related to these casinos here, especially if there are issues regarding the fairness, cmiiw.

Well, you'll stop playing on rigged casino further and might as well make others aware of this scammy casino to save them from falling for the fraud.

While makinuse of a very popular casino the likelihood to check  if their games are provably fair would hardly stick with you because the idea that its an already popular casino and there would be person other than you who would have done that already hence their popularity. The only time gamblers get worried about how fair the system of a casino is, is when they're using a newly established casino that is still struggling with the industry competition.

if you are just looking for luck & a good payout then provably fair crypto math seems extra to you. keep in mind provably fair means that you can confirm the RNG & game results using cryptography so no one can cheat not even the site itself. The only thing it does not fix is ​​KYC or withdrawal problems & it also does not guarantee that the operator will pay you, that is a different trust issue. so if convenience is your priority then you are on licensed sites with a good track record in cashouts but if you are really after fairness provably fair casinos are better.

But are you not scared that the casino will just cheat you for better odds? If there is no probably fair then the casino can make you lose at any time becuase they control the cards before they are drawn.

I would not play a game without probably fair with a lot of money because you can not trust it completely. Just like with bitcoin that we need to verify with our nodes, it's the most important thing in a world where money is so powerful so there are a lot of bad people trying to scam and have more edge on you.

Provably fairness in casino games is very important to every experienced gambler that already knows the things that should go on while gambling, that's why gamblers are very skeptical in using new casino or casinos that doesn't have a good reputation because if you are using a reputable casino, you won't have a double thought whether the games are being rigged or not but for casino that doesn't have a good reputation, you can always think that they are not being fair.

It is not enough that the casino will use this term as an advertising ploy to attract new players. If casinos adhere to the principle of provable honesty, then the player should be able to independently verify the result of the game.

I'm just a small player, that's why I don't care about proving fairness, besides gambling is a place for cunning people, and only a few are truly honest, both for casino owners and players, even so, if I were a big player, I would definitely care about it and play at an officially licensed casino.

The reason why you mostly find gamblers leaving one casino to the otherr is a thing of reputation. Reputation is an integral part of every brand in all industries. It is what brings more people to knock at your doors when they could have easily worked away. The same thing works well in the gambling industry like other industries. The next question is how do you build that reputation, it is by working hard to remain in the industry for a very long time doing the same business and making innovations in the industry, are the ingredients that will bring that trust base and reputation. And once a company has the needed components.

If you hadn’t asked, I would’ve forgotten about it. Lol. I think the last time I checked was before the pandemic. Actually, I only play in reputable casinos, so I don’t really bother much with checking my bets. But of course, it’s still very important for me that a casino is provably fair and I guess the majority, if not all players care about that too. Maybe because I stick to reputable casinos, I’ve been comfortable playing without needing to check my bets, even the red ones. And with years of playing, whether I check them or not, I understand how gambling works, so I don’t feel the need to verify every time.

Well, being able to know with proof that the outcome of our bets on every game including slot and casinos games is fair actually gives a good feeling, atleast, you are very sure that the reason you lost a bets was simply because you were unlucky and not maybe because the game's algorithm must have been manipulated by the casino and or game providers to ensure that that game does not give winning as at when one is lucky and ought to have won..

Provably fair is the real beauty of gambling, and should be treated as one of the most important aspect of it, we all enjoy gambling because we believe that it's not the owner that choosed who wins, but the system which we trust to be 100% fair.

Every reputable casino we have are provably fair, and this is one of the things that you must consider before making use of any casino...Any casino without this isn't safe to make use of because that results would always be manipulated...when playing casino games we all know that the house edge is high in a lot of these games, bottom line is, the house has more advantage but some scam casinos can take advantage of this and totally make winning impossibe

It becomes more difficult to verify the more you keep playing, because the number of games will also keep increasing.

For me, when I have a long history and I want to check provably fairness of the game, I tend to just pick them randomly - I could take the last one and a few others that are close to it and then pick some others too. I can just pick them like that and then check them if. I don’t think there’s anyone that would want to start going through 50 games to verify the fairness.

It's few casinos that is not a scam casinos, so what I'm saying is that almost all the casinos have similar functions and plan's, I will say that almost every casinos right now is a scam one, unless that you follow their kyc procedure, some casinos will hold you when you have not verify your account but the process whereby you have verify your account I don't think that casinos can scam you, because they don't have any cogent excuse to withhold your funds.

I haven't come across any casino platform where results are manipulated especially in sport betting, so you mean result of a prediction will just certainly changed and manipulated to go against you, if example, gambler predicted arsenal to win against Liverpool, and suddenly, the arsenal won the game but your predictions had been changed and manipulated to Liverpool win or draw while leaving your prediction red and failed.

Do something similar in my explanation above happened before? I haven't encounter such, but if it occur, does that mean gambling platforms is not provably fair?

To me it is important a casino gives their gamblers a minimum number of selected games which can be proven to be provably fair. It does not take much time or too much technological scrutiny for one to learn how to verify one's session.
As a matter of fact, that is one of the reasons I like the selection of games developed and published by Stake, most (if not all of them) and inherently provably fair, so one can wager with little worry on whether there is something fishy going on with the game one is playing, one just focuses on the thrill and have a good time.

I would only try non-provably fair slots if they have a very attractive design and animations.

True, it doesn’t fix KYC issues but, that’s completely out of that space you know, it’s on a niche of its own.

Provably fair is supposed to prove that the games you gamble on aren’t manipulated and the house edge isn’t way much than it would be considered okay.

However, not so many gamblers, myself included is good at verifying this. It’s more of a casino thing though and sports betting gamblers wouldn’t care very much about it.

The first thing that experience gamblers ask for on a casino is the probability fairness of their game's, this is very necessary because the whole thing will ball down to how fair the games system are that is what guarantee player safety of fund's and vet placed, that is what give players level playing grounds, between them and the casino.

I can only count with one hand the times when I actually verified my bet's result. It was not even borne out of the need to verify the fairness of the result, it was mainly to try doing it and to try checking whether their claim is true or not.

But even if I don't do it often, I think it is a very important feature in a casino. You cannot just trust a casino blindly. It is always best if there is a way to prove a casino's fairness claim. I don't have to verify each time a bet is settled. It's enough that I and the rest of their users can do the verification any time they want.

It's good that you haven't encountered any casinos that fix the results, but they do exist. Personally, I expect that large, reliable casinos don't do this.

As for sports betting, I doubt that the casino is fixing the results because they can't change the outcome of the match, of course. However, there can be fixing in gambling games other than sports betting.
If you're certain that the casino is fixing the results, there's nothing you can do but move to another casino.

Best advice always if you are feeling casino is having something which is bringing loses for you without wasting any time moving to any other casino is best bet for any person because its never been ideal approach to waste your money on any place which is not fair.
Sports betting is completely another thing where mostly casino have nothing to do because result is coming out on many sites where they are no chance of bringing changes but in gambling games its always possible and this happen few years back while they were not able to stay in market because peoples never like things like these.
Due to their business model its never been easy for reputable casinos to do any trick just new and those are having not good business done mistakes before having their unwanted end which never give them good results anymore.

It’s not practical to check every single result, however, if you have a bad streak that makes you think something is off, it’s a good idea to do the verification on your recent results. Sometimes the immediate reaction is to blame the casino for cheating you, but if you don’t have proof, that accusation will not be credible. There has been some cases where gambling websites claimed to have zero or near zero house edge for certain games and it turned out that there was some manipulation going on.

I haven't checked for probably fairness in a casino before and I don't know if I can do so that is why I rely on reputable casinos for gambling. I know that the house edge will always be there but a reputable casino will be fair in their house edge and gamblers won't be exploited. If a casino is not reputable that is when gamblers that chooses to use their site for gambling need to verify if they are probably fair. Fairness is important for casinos because gamblers loses more than what they win, if unfairness is added to it by any casino that would be wickedness on their part.

Being completely honest, I’m probably not going to take the time to make sure that every game I play is provably honest. That is why I think playing at a reputable casino is important. I’m sure that casinos I play at have had their share of audits in order to reach the position to where I’d consider playing there.

Exactly, I would do the same any time a of any day, a popular casino who isn't provably fair won't become popular, as many people are using such platform their secret will be out very fast, this is why using a popular casino is the best thing a gambler can choose to do.

The dangers of using a new casino is

1. The games they have on their platforms might be straight from the casino and not reputable game providers.

2. New online casinos aren't out for too long, so far no reputation is been built, they can easily decide to shut down anytime if they want.

A casino that's been out for long has better chances of serving their customers right than brand new online casinos.

Everyone would want to ensure that they are not cheated. If casinos add a tool that could help bettors check the fairness of their games, it's a welcome development. You might trust reputable casinos, but sometimes their games a provided by third parties. Therefore, the option of checking the fairness of games could be a way to check these third-party game providers. I know it might be time-consuming to engage in these tasks but doing it occasionally might not be a bad idea.   

You don't need to verify everything, I don't think anyone is going to do this because imagine having to verify 1000 games a day. But just having the system in place means there is less chance for corruption and for the casino to game the system because they know there is a chance one user makes a code to check all games and finds one or two bad games which is going to kill the casino for good and its reputation

Many people run code that verifies all games so you don't need to check all of them manually which is a waste of time and a lot of work.

Provably fairness matters a lot to me. I'm very picky when it comes to casinos. I gamble because I want to have fun and how will I have fun if I'm getting lied? If the casino lies to me and my loss is a result of their cheating system, it will upset me a lot.
To be fair, I'm not here with the aim of making money from the gambling but I want to have fun, fair fun. If I win the money, nice, that's very good but if I lose, I'll know that it was fair and square, so I'll sleep happy that night.
Btw I sometimes verify my bets, not always but sometimes, definitely. I usually play live blackjack and I don't need to verify anything here because these live games are 100% fair.

That's what am saying, gamblers that has already known what they are expecting from a casino would go for a reputation casino because they trust that the casino would not be biased to chance the supposed results to their own favour because already the system is designed to favour them more and it will be very terrible to alter the system again which will leave the gamblers with very micro winning or no winning at all.

Yeah, your understanding is correct.

Basically provably fairness is that it can proven that the random system follows a specific random distribution.

In a simple way, you can think that they have a "fair dice", that is, if you throw the dice many times, you will have a 1/6 chances of getting, say, a number 1.

Casinos here are provably fair so I don't need to verify my bets. I never verify it because I play at reputable casinos and many people use the casino. I believe the casinos here will not rig for their members because that will be related to their reputations.

But if you want to verify your bets, you are free to do but that will need time because you will check one by one your bets. You will not focus on enjoying your time in gambling but you will verify the bets. But that will be okay if you don't mind doing that.

It used to be more important for me back when I still played a lot of provably fair games, but now it's not as much because i've mostly been playing games coming from software providers.

I still check my bets whenever there's a third-party tool or verifier. I just rarely pay attention to it because it's very rare to find something wrong with casinos and their original games.

Such thing would never happen because it's very easy to notice the casino cheat the gambler.

Probably fair in slots means the results are random. If we're talking in sports, it should be about the match, if it's fixed match, then it's no longer fair anymore. What I see some bookie cheat the gamblers is they void the bet when the gambler guess correctly.

Provably fair is important, do people want to gamble on manipulated system?

In the specific case of roulette, it can't be defined as fair. I can define it as fair if I know it costs me 10 and I earn 20 with my effort, and therefore it can be defined as fair investment > effort > result.
How can something that relies on a higher probability of success without any mathematical calculation be defined as fair? I'm definitely the one who can't grasp the concept.
Instead, I define something as fair as: roulette has collected 100% and 80% of the takings are returned as a prize to the players completely randomly.
In this case, I demonstrate that the game fairly, without any mathematical calculations, distributes a percentage to the players (as per the rules).
ps. I can't view winna.com

I'm in your same shoes. Imagine checking on the probable of every of your games and it's verified provably but yet the outcomes of your games hasn't been going at your favour at all, I'm sure you'll begin to doubt the provably of verifying games in the casino.
I really don't find this concept comfortable for myself. I rather only consider playing on the casino's that're highily recommended reputable than being skeptic about the casino's reputations at every single games I plays.

Which tool/website are you referring to? Is there a dedicated website that tracks how a game works? I can't remember if there's a tool like that. Last time I checked, some casinos offer the code to verify, while others buy a script from others, so we can assume the code is more or less the same. I don't think those 1000s games are unique to each other to begin with, at best they offer modification or different UI while the logic is similar to other similar games. CMIIW.

Yes, definitely!!!

Provably Fair is a super useful feature of many people underestimate until to day they actually need it :P
Obviously, no one will manually check every bet, but the simple fact that there is a feature for you to independently audit already your games, significantly changes the casino's relationship of trust with its players, you don't agree me? Who would provide a self verification tool on a platform that cheats on results? That would be terrible for the casino's reputation.

Without Provably Fair everything will depend 100% on the platform's good faith, and that's where the reputation thing comes in: "Oh... but the casino is a well established, it's trustworthy, and blah blah blah." But it's like with cryptocurrencies: "You should not trust, you should verify." This is one of the key concepts of decentralization... anyone can verify the veracity of information.
I think we should all remember that trust is built both on honest actions and on the ability to prove those actions.

Now I don't focus on this, but simply choose online casinos and bookmakers from the list of companies that are provided on our forum.
Nothing prevents gamblers from choosing from this list. Because even if problems arise, you can not only try to get a settlement from the support service, but you can also write here by creating a topic. And the manager who is a representative of this company will immediately answer all misunderstandings. I have already encountered this several times here, and the settlement has always been quick.

That is why I love sports game there is nothing like provably fair game, when a sport game, such as football or basketball any other games that involve ball, you can track down to know what they are manipulated or not in fact, since they are mostly live matches and you could watch and see whether is actually what you picked or not. But in casino games you wouldn't know whether they are manipulated or not that is why most people keeps tracking their games to know whether they are maneuver or not.

Even a reputable casino can make mistakes and enter into agreements with providers who turn out to be unreliable. I think it’s just something to keep in mind and not to forget about this possibility. It doesn’t mean you need to obsess over checking every single game, but it’s better to assume that something like this can happen, so that if it actually does, you won’t be too disappointed.

Correct, it’s very hard to track every bet if provably fair since games that usually use this system is fast phase game. Some casino also have time limit on when you can access your betting history since delete it to free some space.

I believe checking the initial bet before playing long term is the smart move so that you can have assurance that your whole game is fair.

Hash seed is not frequently changing so everything is as is fair once you check it.

Yes, one of the reasons why we are better off playing at a casino that has a good reputation is so that we don't have to bother trying to find out whether the casino is proven to be fair or not, for me a good reputation is enough to convince myself, and also I don't really care about that actually, because winning is not a priority for me, but of course I will also be very happy if I manage to win, the most important thing for me is that I feel entertained in the game process.

I prefer well known casinos. But for random games i use so small sum that i lose more time checking the game than if i just forget it.

If i have no wind for a long time - i will change casino - maths says that i have to win time to time, and TRP says that it must be not to rare. And you`re right about gamblers feed back and casinos` reputation. I prefer well-known casinos too.

I don't know which casino you use, so I can not recommend anything. But if you know how to code software you can make one that checks all games to make sure the result is legit and if it's not you can just report this to the casino or to the communities like bitcointalk so they give you a compensation or get blacklisted for cheating players

If you search for provably fair on github you see many examples of codes to use and to make your own

True, if you are not meticulous then someone that used the same casino have done it already. And that's why it's no longer that important for us when we have sole trust to that casino.

Not only that, we're mostly concerned in our withdrawals rather than verifying the games that we've played on them. It's the most important thing that many gamblers are thinking of and we can't deny that matter.

Provably fair also gives a kind of psychological comfort for players because when you know there is a system that can be checked you play with less doubt and more confidence this doesn’t mean you are guaranteed to win but at least you are not fighting against a rigged machine the results are still random but random in a verifiable way and that’s the key difference. Many players ignore it because they think big casinos won’t risk their names by cheating but history shows that even well known houses have manipulated odds in the past so having a tool that proves fairness is like having insurance you may not use it every day but when you need it you will be glad it’s there it becomes less about trust and more about mathematics and transparency which is exactly what makes crypto gambling unique.

So even if most people don’t bother verifying often the existence of provably fair is already shaping the industry it forces casinos to be more honest or risk being called out it empowers players to not just be passive consumers but active checkers of fairness and that in itself is a big shift.

It is all right to lose while gambling, but will you still be entertained if you lose in an unfair game? Just because you are gambling for entertainment does not mean it is okay to play in a casino that does not have solid proofs of being fair.

Although I agree with you that a good reputation is often enough, it is of course much better if a casino gives every user the ability to verify the fairness himself. 'Don't trust, verify' is the Bitcoin motto that many practice even in gambling.

In my opinion, this is a very personal issue. You can simply trust the casino and not worry about it, or you can choose to check the results every time you bet. If you don't feel comfortable, you can also switch to another casino you consider more trustworthy. Still, I believe most people don't check that all the results are correct.

Players always run to a trustworthy casino like birds to houselights. There'll be no essence going through the check, analysis, or verification if the house has proven to keep their own side of the bargain. Which is literally what provably fair is all about.

Right, most gamblers don't even check whether results they are getting are fair and there is nothing wrong going on with their numbers, but only because the majority of people do not do it, it does not mean it should not be an option to be able to verify fairness on one's favorite casino games, you know.
There should always be an option for anyone to cryptographically check fairness on casinos.

It reminds me a bit about the debate on freedom of speech in the United States and also on privacy. Only because one does not have something to say, it does not mean there should not be warranties for others to be free to say whatever they want...

Yes, I think it's just the fact that doing due diligence is actually boring.

Most people just want to have fun, entertainment, etc. They don't want to think.

I guess it's in the interest of the casinos to keep things like that.

But it can serve our best interests doing that on our own if we know the procedures to arrive at it, it would boost out confidence the more that we know for our own that we're definitely using a platform with provably fair games than whwn we deoend on others.

Our concerns for withdrawals are mutual. withdrawals makes the heart of a gambler happier as it's the next appropriate thing to follow after an entertaining time of gambling subsequent to a lucky profitable wins made.

The major reason most people gamble is not just about fun and yes they tend to have fun but when there money is not doubling as they think you would start seeing that interesting could began to decrease due to low expectations of how they should feel of having their results. But whenever it's not as planned they felt disappointed then channels it to having fun while in them they aren't that pleased with what they sees.

The odds will always be in favor with the casino, that’s for certain. It’s their business so they will do everything to make it thrive. It’s just that with provably fair games, you can’t experience being rigged nor cheated, because that’s the ultimate goal of provably fair games, to serve fairness and justice for everyone who’s gambling.

Correct. Provably fair system guarantees that the result is fair based on winning percentage set on the specific bet and its completely random based on the code design to determine result.

The odds of the game is always based on the settings while the advantage of the casino comes on the payout which they will apply the house edge.

So a 50% winning chance should be 50-50 result.

Yeah, that's right.

But I would have expected that being provable fair would be a requirement to get the license to operate in any country, really...

I mean, if you can't prove that your machines are giving you a fair result, then of course they could just scam everyone.

Provably fair is important for players especially those who plays regularly with huge bankroll.  As a person who gamble, even though I only have a small bankroll, provably fair is also important to me. I do not regularly check the hashes but I do once in a while just for curiosity. It is probably because I trust the casino platform I am playing with.



I agree that the program/machine should be tested for its provably fair before it is implemented in any licensed casino platform.  As far as I know, there is a regular audit to ensure that the program/machine is functioning as declared.

Provably Fair is very important in the online world, especially in Bitcoin casinos I think it is a must have. Most of the casinos that do not have Provably Fair are suspicious and opaque. Because with it you can check the server seed, client seed, nonce etc. yourself and understand how the results are determined. So the casino cannot change the odds without your knowledge after you place your bet. You may be lazy in using verification tools or blindly trust your casino, but if we all do this, the casino will always take advantage of our stupidity. Whether we verify or not it does not make PF useless.

However I agree that PF is not a perfect shield, some casinos abuse it or create the illusion of fairness (marketing rather than implementation) so reputation and audit should always be checked. So yes, it should be optional for those who want to verify, and for others it is still important because it keeps the industry honest.

I rarely bet on statistics, so I almost never track or check stats like corners, cards, fouls, shots, throws, and so on. But I think if there were serious discrepancies, there would be a lot of information about it. Besides casinos, there are also official sources that keep complete statistics, and I believe casinos rely precisely on this official data. They cannot change it in their favor because that would harm the casino’s reputation.

If we doubt the casino's fairness reputations towards every single games from players, how guaranteed is the external tool to check this fairness status? I just keep asking because at the end of it'll the tools will propagate panics amongst casino's and users and it'll be improvable to be trusted since it's individually created tool that the casino didn't approve provable in their own platforms. So the tool can't be convinceable to prove it genuineness.

If Bitcoin is about sending a receiving money, not trusting but verifying. Then gambling with Bitcoin should also be about not trusting blindly but also to verify one's outcome and have a clear idea on what is going on.

When you mention audits, I don't know who that could be implemented since audits are a type of commerce of trust, let us say. There are companies with profit out their trustworthiness and their reputation is their best assets, but Bitcoin and Bitcoin gambling should not need to rely on an auditor for us to gamble calmly, without assuming there something wrong with the software of casino games.

Sadly, casinos and game providers will never feel comfortable enough to provide the source code of their games and make them free software.

In the early days of online crypto gambling, provable fairness is a very important factor as most casinos were operating anonymously and without license. Nowadays, very few gamblers are using this provably fairness tool or so it seems. It is now more on the reputation and credibility of the casino, on how they give trust to a specific casino. Because it is time consuming if you will verify every bet. So the notion that a licensed and reputable casino won't jeopardize their reputation, would always abide the provable fairness in their system at all times.
It may be important but with the current scenario, most are just depending on how credible and trustworthy the casino is.

Yeah, I think at the end of the day the casinos will have the advantage any way.

Might as well concentrate on having a good time, getting good entertainment value for the money.

If a "better" game is more boring, then I don't really see the point of playing that instead.

A game should be engaging and exciting, if it’s boring, hardly anyone will play it for long.Being able to verify the fairness of a game is a great opportunity. I think it’s useful both for the casino itself, as a way to build trust and promote its services, and for the players, since it’s an interesting and reassuring option.

Well, I think you are correct, many gamblers now are not devoted to using any tool for checking fairness of a game but rather trust the credibility and reputation of a casino before they can comfortably play on that casino without have the doubt of whether the casino is being fair or not in the games offered. Since I started gambling, I have not checked but I make sure I use reputable casinos.

The casino is always telling us that they are not cheating people and are provably fair to everyone. But the question that always appears in our mind is, are they telling the truth? But despite some doubts and uncertainty about being provably fair, we still trust them. Of course, not those questionable sites. Not those fixed games and not those casinos that are known for cheating.

While provable fairness is very important for us. It's also important not to be fooled by big bonuses and other attractive offers because they always have an exchange.

I don't really check the fairness, I try it first and spend 100 rolls with the minimum amount. That's how I see how fair a game is, and sometimes the whole slot provider will be affected by what I decide.

In slots, I stick with slot providers who give a good return. Not Pragmatic, I don't like that. It has good returns only early in the game, but as it goes on, it will be on a losing streak for a very long time, unless maybe you refresh the whole thing, and the algorithm will change.
Anyway, in today's slots, most games are high volatile, it's difficult to find a game where you will really feel the back and forth fight for money.

Casinos have huge promotional departments that specialize in how to try to gain maximum trust from each gambler, and I heard that this is why they often give away free sets of things, poker T-shirts and all sorts of paraphernalia with the logos of their organization. Their goal is to become not just a partner of the gambler, but literally a friend. And this is the best way to then conclude a profitable "cooperation" so that the gambler does not go to another online casino. Many gamblers find it difficult to ignore this and be interested in searching for proven honesty of the casino.