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Economy => Economics => Topic started by: Reatim on September 24, 2025, 12:32:52 PM



Title: the system is backwards
Post by: Reatim on September 24, 2025, 12:32:52 PM
why is it that the wealthy ones usually exempt from paying taxes? when you are rich, you can basically pay no taxes and it will not be considered illegal exactly. you will not be filed a case if you avoid paying taxes no matter how. sometimes you are even exempt like for example living in uae or in monaco, the wealthiest people do not need to be paying taxes. but why is that? aren't the wealthy ones supposed to be paying more? instead it is the ones from middle class or lower that are paying so much for taxes

is there a reason why the rich are the ones that can escape taxes?


Title: Re: the system is backwards
Post by: bettercrypto on September 24, 2025, 12:48:36 PM
What? rich people exempt from paying taxes? Do you know what you are saying op? I don't know if you understand what you are saying here in the topic you made. Because as far as I know if you don't pay taxes you can be charged as tax evaders. And all I know that are exempt from taxes are non-government organizations like the Foundation, Then another thing, whether rich or poor, they all pay taxes because these are the regulations in all countries around the world. It is also not true that wealthy people are exempt from taxes that must be paid, and besides all the goods that we buy,
you also know that there are taxes that consumers also pay.

Then what I also know is that the governments of each country survive on taxes, this becomes the source of funds for all countries around the world,
and if those who sit in government are bad, the taxes they collect from the constituents under their jurisdiction will only go to useless things.



Title: Re: the system is backwards
Post by: Dunamisx on September 24, 2025, 12:57:02 PM
why is it that the wealthy ones usually exempt from paying taxes? when you are rich, you can basically pay no taxes and it will not be considered illegal exactly.

By law, they were not exempted, but by the virtue of the immunity cover, they were protected and prevented from paying tax, i government official can easily address an issue over any citizen and easily run a check to know if such individual has been paying tax or not, while the government official don't have the same experience on this manner, because they have what protected them.

In my country, you will see the way the citizens are been embarrassed for expired driving documents, while if you check the government officials, most of them don't even have one not to talk of getting it expired, they drive through the cities in and out and no one stops them to check.


Title: Re: the system is backwards
Post by: Zlantann on September 24, 2025, 05:00:02 PM
why is it that the wealthy ones usually exempt from paying taxes? when you are rich, you can basically pay no taxes and it will not be considered illegal exactly. you will not be filed a case if you avoid paying taxes no matter how. sometimes you are even exempt like for example living in uae or in monaco, the wealthiest people do not need to be paying taxes. but why is that? aren't the wealthy ones supposed to be paying more? instead it is the ones from middle class or lower that are paying so much for taxes

is there a reason why the rich are the ones that can escape taxes?

Most of them are skillful in tax avoidance strategies. The rich can afford to hire smart financial advisors who can identify loopholes in tax laws. They know how to move their wealth to tax-free nations or establish companies in Offshore tax havens. They also take advantage of tax deductions and credits available in their countries.

There is also a political angle to these tax policies. Most politicians are rich or have connections to wealthy individuals. In fact, some of them were sponsored by big business owners. So, tax laws have to be made to favour these powerful individuals.   


Title: Re: the system is backwards
Post by: mindrust on September 24, 2025, 05:04:59 PM
It is becase the rich has options unlike the poor. The rich can take their assets and move to some other country which offers better deals while the poor are stuck in their home country. The poor have no bargaining power. None. The rich can threaten the governments and the governments need the rich and their assets. That's why taxing the rich will never work because no matter what the governments do to tax them, the rich will take the necessary steps to protect their wealth. Taxation works only on the poor. The alternative is simply not possible. In a way, this current taxation system is a way to stop the poor from getting rich. It is nothing else. It is because if everybody was rich, nobody would have to go to work. If nobody works, who is going to bake bread? Somebody has to wage slave so some other lucky basturds can do nothing and consume the stuff which other people produce. Wealth is all relative.


Title: Re: the system is backwards
Post by: Despairo on September 24, 2025, 05:24:17 PM
@mindrust answered correctly, the rich have more options, hence they can escape from taxes.

Recently working abroad for low middle class people is very popular, but not all of them can work abroad. They need to pay language courses and exam, which they don't even have any money for that, I haven't even mention about the flight ticket, funding for blocked account etc.

What? rich people exempt from paying taxes? Do you know what you are saying op? I don't know if you understand what you are saying here in the topic you made. Because as far as I know if you don't pay taxes you can be charged as tax evaders. And all I know that are exempt from taxes are non-government organizations like the Foundation
You're correct, but I do understand what @OP tried to say, he was just not clear enough.

Rich people are still getting taxed, actually government are happier because they will earn more. But, rich people have an option to hire tax consultant, lawyer and bribe the government, those two thing really powerful, the amount spent for them might be less than their total taxes.


Title: Re: the system is backwards
Post by: tabas on September 24, 2025, 05:38:26 PM
why is it that the wealthy ones usually exempt from paying taxes? when you are rich, you can basically pay no taxes and it will not be considered illegal exactly. you will not be filed a case if you avoid paying taxes no matter how. sometimes you are even exempt like for example living in uae or in monaco, the wealthiest people do not need to be paying taxes. but why is that? aren't the wealthy ones supposed to be paying more? instead it is the ones from middle class or lower that are paying so much for taxes

is there a reason why the rich are the ones that can escape taxes?
Because they know how tax works and how the system works with a loophole. And with that, they know how to escape being taxed heavily and only pays a little from the huge profits that they're getting. I think one incentive that we can think of is that they are employing a lot of people. But those employees are the ones that are being taxed rightly compared to them that knows how to escape being taxed heavily. We have to accept it that there is more incentives to the rich and that's why they are becoming richer than a normal person that works hard everyday, barely survive.


Title: Re: the system is backwards
Post by: Salahmu on September 24, 2025, 05:40:46 PM
why is it that the wealthy ones usually exempt from paying taxes? when you are rich, you can basically pay no taxes and it will not be considered illegal exactly. you will not be filed a case if you avoid paying taxes no matter how. sometimes you are even exempt like for example living in uae or in monaco, the wealthiest people do not need to be paying taxes. but why is that? aren't the wealthy ones supposed to be paying more? instead it is the ones from middle class or lower that are paying so much for taxes

is there a reason why the rich are the ones that can escape taxes?

I have not been in that country or no there taxes format or if the wealthy people are tax free but however except the country do not imposed it on them will it work that way, paying taxes is not something everybody could be aware of those that's doing it especially countries with high technology, everything can be done online while some persons will be feeling that wealthy people are not paying. In my country taxes are applicable to both rich and the poor and as a wealthy person doing a business without paying, the government agencies will definitely stop your business and charge you almost a double of what you owe them. they do not charge the poor more than the rich because if calculating how there transactions work the rich always pay high.


Title: Re: the system is backwards
Post by: Findingnemo on September 24, 2025, 07:11:42 PM
why is it that the wealthy ones usually exempt from paying taxes? when you are rich, you can basically pay no taxes and it will not be considered illegal exactly. you will not be filed a case if you avoid paying taxes no matter how. sometimes you are even exempt like for example living in uae or in monaco, the wealthiest people do not need to be paying taxes. but why is that? aren't the wealthy ones supposed to be paying more? instead it is the ones from middle class or lower that are paying so much for taxes

is there a reason why the rich are the ones that can escape taxes?
There are two type of taxes such as direct and indirect tax.

Indirect tax is just same for everyone and they have to pay it no matter what and there is no exception or legal way to avoid it on most cases.

But the direct tax, such as income tax that is where the real game begins and taxation is multi multi-layered complicated system with too many loopholes just for the right people to exploit it, which is completely legal because the system is designed for the rich by the rich so it's obvious who they are giving an edge.

You want a way out? No one is stopping you from moving to Dubai where you pay zero tax. :P


Title: Re: the system is backwards
Post by: coolcoinz on September 24, 2025, 07:44:47 PM
The deal is, you need to be self-employed. That's one way to avoid some taxes, even when you're an average earner. Rich people are usually smart or they employ smart people to manage their money for them.

When you're an employee, your employer has to pay taxes for hiring you. He pays some social security for you, insurance, also taxes for the money you're earning for him and he has to put some of that burden back on you. When you self-employ you can earn more for doing the same work because you're not sharing the burden with your employer.
When you register your own business you can register it as a partnership and here's where the fun begins. You can start a corporation that has a board of directors with only you as the only member. You can have a supervisory board where someone that you trust signs everything. The money managed by the supervisory board is used by the company, so it's not taxed, but the company can buy things that the board of directors want as long as there's a vote and the supervisor agrees to it.

So, let's say you want a new car. You write to the supervisor that the board has voted for a purchase of a new company car and the supervisor signs it. The car is not bought in your name but in the name of the company. You can use it as long as you like and pay 0 tax as long as you don't sell it to anyone and the company doesn't go bankrupt.
You want some cash for fuel? The board decides how much company funds you can spend on fuel every month and that's also tax free because you're using that car for work not pleasure ;)
 
Google tax optimization. There are companies that do it for you and let you save a lot of money.


Title: Re: the system is backwards
Post by: Solodoski on September 24, 2025, 07:48:42 PM
The rich are not exempted from paying tax, but they just know how to find ways to pay reduced tax, because they have the money and also understand the way the system works. They have the money to hire a good tax adviser,  that can help them pay less amount of tax than the actual amount.
Sometimes the government also overwrite their tax, because their money is needed to run the system and that can also be based  on connections. The truth is that they are not exempted from paying tax, but they find a way to maneuver it and end up paying a little amount.


Title: Re: the system is backwards
Post by: r_victory on September 24, 2025, 10:59:56 PM
The rich pay taxes, and they pay a lot. Here in Brazil, the taxes levied on business owners, for example, are what prevent many hirings and often even compromise business growth. What can happen are deductions in the tax amounts that must be paid if donations are made to charity, public-private partnerships, or participation in government programs.

It's a way to pit the rich against the poor and vice versa. Depending on a company's revenue and tax regime, the tax rate can reach 30%. For individuals, the tax rate can reach 27.5%. Some companies, known as MEI (individual microentrepreneurs), fall under a tax regime with a fixed monthly rate, not a percentage, but a fixed amount.

In Brazil, there's no such thing as not paying taxes, except for those earning less than the minimum wage, who are exempt.

Note: I used entrepreneurs as an example because it is their businesses that generate the wealth they have.


Title: Re: the system is backwards
Post by: GeorgeJohn on September 24, 2025, 11:03:38 PM
why is it that the wealthy ones usually exempt from paying taxes? when you are rich, you can basically pay no taxes and it will not be considered illegal exactly. you will not be filed a case if you avoid paying taxes no matter how. sometimes you are even exempt like for example living in uae or in monaco, the wealthiest people do not need to be paying taxes. but why is that? aren't the wealthy ones supposed to be paying more? instead it is the ones from middle class or lower that are paying so much for taxes

is there a reason why the rich are the ones that can escape taxes?
it depends on the country that you will find yourself because most countries that does not have regulation, or rule's they are the country but we know bother for a rich man to pay a tax but a country whereby everyone is equal neither you are a rich man all you are command you must abide on the rules and regulation of that country, because then seems everyone to be equal, that is why they don't have any segregation or they don't have a rich man tax and the poor man tax


Title: Re: the system is backwards
Post by: JiiBs on September 24, 2025, 11:03:58 PM
why is it that the wealthy ones usually exempt from paying taxes? when you are rich, you can basically pay no taxes and it will not be considered illegal exactly.

In a country where taxes are levied and collected properly, I don’t think anyone is exempt no matter your status in the society, not even the rich.

Although, there are times and some wealthy people that don’t pay well enough taxes as we would have hoped them to pay and that’s not because they refuse to pay but, they have a better understanding of the system and how it works.

These guys are able to find a loophole and exploit it for their own benefits. Secretes they share with their friends and the poor have no idea of it so, they keep paying a lot of taxes by the week.


Title: Re: the system is backwards
Post by: Iroh on September 24, 2025, 11:39:26 PM
The rich is not exempt from paying taxes. They too are required by law to pay tax and can actually be taken to court over the evasion or refusal to pay tax where you'll be fined. The rich has at their disposal, lawyers who can look for any legal loophole which then would be exploited into paying little to nothing in taxes.
The interesting part is when the government gives tax breaks to large scale businesses and corporations to supposedly encourage more investments in the country which should then lead to more job openings. These corporations would gladly accept the tax break without doing anything differently. This has happened countless times. It's also no surprise as the government and the rich pander to themselves.


Title: Re: the system is backwards
Post by: Ivystar5 on September 24, 2025, 11:46:46 PM
is there a reason why the rich are the ones that can escape taxes?
There is no one exempted from paying tax but some rich people who knows how to run their ways around finds a rout out of paying tax and it's a legal rout which they follow, such as making some charity donations that the rewards are not paying tax for some reasons or in some ways, so it's really not that they are not paying tax but they already paid the tax through the donations. this is basically from my perception, from interviews and podcast I have watched.


Title: Re: the system is backwards
Post by: BitHodlers on September 24, 2025, 11:47:39 PM
why is it that the wealthy ones usually exempt from paying taxes? when you are rich, you can basically pay no taxes and it will not be considered illegal exactly. you will not be filed a case if you avoid paying taxes no matter how. sometimes you are even exempt like for example living in uae or in monaco, the wealthiest people do not need to be paying taxes. but why is that? aren't the wealthy ones supposed to be paying more? instead it is the ones from middle class or lower that are paying so much for taxes
A good part of a deep red pilling process with Bitcoin is the realization that most of the things in the world are completely broken and backwards.

is there a reason why the rich are the ones that can escape taxes?
Corruption through power.

@mindrust answered correctly, the rich have more options, hence they can escape from taxes.
And who created these options and why are they not closed? Because the rich bribe the politicians to create laws that give them options. That's all there is to it. They essentially paid to get tax exemptions. Just because there is no direct law that talks about exemptions it does not mean that they didn't effectively manage to do that. A lot of the people in this thread are wasting time talking about the fact that there is no real exemption.

Most of the ways of avoiding taxes for the rich are known and they are easily shut down but nobody is doing it. Have you not understood the world yet? You can pay to get almost anything as long as you have enough money.


Title: Re: the system is backwards
Post by: Samlucky O on September 25, 2025, 02:16:39 AM
why is it that the wealthy ones usually exempt from paying taxes? when you are rich, you can basically pay no taxes and it will not be considered illegal exactly. you will not be filed a case if you avoid paying taxes no matter how. sometimes you are even exempt like for example living in uae or in monaco, the wealthiest people do not need to be paying taxes. but why is that? aren't the wealthy ones supposed to be paying more? instead it is the ones from middle class or lower that are paying so much for taxes

is there a reason why the rich are the ones that can escape taxes?
I don't think that's true, but if it's true then it could be some few rich guys that can do that, because majority of rich guys even pay higher tax according to their level of investment in such country. although there could be some rich loan evaders who has not been noticed by the government or tax agencies but I believe this rich folks could be among the currupt Rich people who pay their way out. I believe in most currupt countries the rich always have their way of boycotting the law since they have money. But we can not use that to generalize All rich people to assume they are tax evaders.


Title: Re: the system is backwards
Post by: AprilioMP on September 25, 2025, 04:01:59 AM
why is it that the wealthy ones usually exempt from paying taxes? when you are rich, you can basically pay no taxes and it will not be considered illegal exactly. you will not be filed a case if you avoid paying taxes no matter how. sometimes you are even exempt like for example living in uae or in monaco, the wealthiest people do not need to be paying taxes. but why is that? aren't the wealthy ones supposed to be paying more? instead it is the ones from middle class or lower that are paying so much for taxes

is there a reason why the rich are the ones that can escape taxes?

By definition, tax is a mandatory contribution intended for the benefit of the state and its citizens. If it's mandatory, there are no exceptions, including for the wealthy or non-wealthy who meet the requirements for taxation.
I don't know the exact details of tax rates and implementation in every country, but basically, once the requirements are met, anyone, regardless of their social class, must pay taxes.

Wealthy individuals who don't pay taxes are considered illegal, although I don't deny that such groups exist in every country, and they usually try to avoid taxes through various means.


Title: Re: the system is backwards
Post by: davis196 on September 25, 2025, 07:29:29 AM
why is it that the wealthy ones usually exempt from paying taxes? when you are rich, you can basically pay no taxes and it will not be considered illegal exactly. you will not be filed a case if you avoid paying taxes no matter how. sometimes you are even exempt like for example living in uae or in monaco, the wealthiest people do not need to be paying taxes. but why is that? aren't the wealthy ones supposed to be paying more? instead it is the ones from middle class or lower that are paying so much for taxes

is there a reason why the rich are the ones that can escape taxes?

The reasons are two. Lobbyism/corruption and "tax heaven" offshore jurisdictions. The first one is more important than the second.
There are lots of tax loopholes in the legislation, which helps the rich people to legally avoid paying high taxes. If there are no tax loopholes, a rich person could simply move his funds to a "tax heaven" jurisdiction. The system cannot be changed, because the wealthy will always have a huge influence over the politicians and law makers. Capitalism turns into an oligarchy. This is inevitable. This is a hidden bug in the system.
You are kinda wrong about the rich people paying NO taxes. Most rich people are actually paying taxes, but they must pay more.


Title: Re: the system is backwards
Post by: Curious T on September 25, 2025, 09:06:13 AM
It is not true that wealthy people don't pay taxes. They pay more taxes than the poor. Most countries use the Progressive system of taxation. This means the more you earn, the higher the percentage of tax you pay on your income. There is also the regressive tax system, where everybody pays a flat rate no matter what they earn.

Some countries use both types of taxes on different taxes, but in most countries, income tax is usually a progressive system.
In the regressive tax system, people don't pay the same actual amount, but they pay the same percentage. The difference is, it weighs more on a person earning $500 a month to pay 10%, than it does for a person earning a million.


Title: Re: the system is backwards
Post by: BitHodlers on September 25, 2025, 03:53:53 PM
I don't think that's true, but if it's true then it could be some few rich guys that can do that, because majority of rich guys even pay higher tax according to their level of investment in such country. although there could be some rich loan evaders who has not been noticed by the government or tax agencies but I believe this rich folks could be among the currupt Rich people who pay their way out. I believe in most currupt countries the rich always have their way of boycotting the law since they have money. But we can not use that to generalize All rich people to assume they are tax evaders.
By definition, tax is a mandatory contribution intended for the benefit of the state and its citizens. If it's mandatory, there are no exceptions, including for the wealthy or non-wealthy who meet the requirements for taxation.
I don't know the exact details of tax rates and implementation in every country, but basically, once the requirements are met, anyone, regardless of their social class, must pay taxes.

Wealthy individuals who don't pay taxes are considered illegal, although I don't deny that such groups exist in every country, and they usually try to avoid taxes through various means.
You are missing the point, read my previous post. What the law says is useless when there are many exceptions using certain structures. All of the tax loopholes were created by politicians for the rich people. This de facto makes it a tax exemption. They paid, they got what they needed and now they are using it. Instead of the whining about loopholes for decades, they would be closed otherwise. It is very easy to close most of the loopholes but they don't want to.

It is not true that wealthy people don't pay taxes. They pay more taxes than the poor. Most countries use the Progressive system of taxation. This means the more you earn, the higher the percentage of tax you pay on your income. There is also the regressive tax system, where everybody pays a flat rate no matter what they earn.
How naive can you be? Do you believe everything that the news tells you too? The rich pay more taxes, good one.  :D :D


Title: Re: the system is backwards
Post by: Samlucky O on September 25, 2025, 04:33:25 PM
Snip

You are missing the point, read my previous post. What the law says is useless when there are many exceptions using certain structures. All of the tax loopholes were created by politicians for the rich people. This de facto makes it a tax exemption. They paid, they got what they needed and now they are using it. Instead of the whining about loopholes for decades, they would be closed otherwise. It is very easy to close most of the loopholes but they don't want to.
The last I checked I didn't quote you, telling me to read your post is what I don't get, except you are not telling me something. I wonder why another person will create thread while another person is taking it  up seriously than the op.


Title: Re: the system is backwards
Post by: BitHodlers on September 25, 2025, 05:51:06 PM
Snip

You are missing the point, read my previous post. What the law says is useless when there are many exceptions using certain structures. All of the tax loopholes were created by politicians for the rich people. This de facto makes it a tax exemption. They paid, they got what they needed and now they are using it. Instead of the whining about loopholes for decades, they would be closed otherwise. It is very easy to close most of the loopholes but they don't want to.
The last I checked I didn't quote you, telling me to read your post is what I don't get, except you are not telling me something. I wonder why another person will create thread while another person is taking it  up seriously than the op.
Good way to dodge admitting you are wrong like most people who responded to this thread. OP did not respond to this thread again so anyone who responds is taking it up seriously.  :D The fact of the matter is that the rich have exempt themselves from taxes. There is no debate there. Some users even responded that the rich pay more taxes. Funny to see poor people defending the system and the rich, everything is working exactly as designed.


Title: Re: the system is backwards
Post by: alastantiger on September 26, 2025, 11:55:57 AM
It is not true that wealthy people don't pay taxes. They pay more taxes than the poor. Most countries use the Progressive system of taxation. This means the more you earn, the higher the percentage of tax you pay on your income. There is also the regressive tax system, where everybody pays a flat rate no matter what they earn.

The wealthy have a way of avoiding taxes and it works for them that the poor don't know about. Some poor do know about them but they don't have the resources to make use of those ways because they don't have the money. The rich are cheating the poor and the government are helping because it benefits them too. The wealthy make use of charities to avoid taxes and they aren't doing it because they want to help the poor. I don't like the flat rate system and I don't think it should be practise more.

It's unfair and also favour the rich. Taxes should be calculated on percentage of your income so that someone earning lesser pay a lesser tax and the people receiving the larger share of the money in the economy should pay more taxes. That way, everything will be balanced and we won't be taking more form the poor when it should be the rich contributing more to help grow the economy.


Title: Re: the system is backwards
Post by: WillyAp on September 26, 2025, 02:36:11 PM
Every poster who thinks he's able to predict the behavior of wealthy people is declaring his/her ignorance about the subject.
Hardly everyone is thinking a little further, I wonder why?


Title: Re: the system is backwards
Post by: meser# on September 26, 2025, 04:17:19 PM
Poor is poor because he doesn't know how to steal. Some of the rich can avoid from paying a lot of taxes why because they know how to avoid but on the other hand poor can't because in some countries they pays before gets the payment. I'm not blaming rich people I'm blaming the system if everyone follows this path then everythink can be collapse. No common education, healt, safety system will work as must be.


Title: Re: the system is backwards
Post by: BitHodlers on September 26, 2025, 07:28:50 PM
Every poster who thinks he's able to predict the behavior of wealthy people is declaring his/her ignorance about the subject.
Hardly everyone is thinking a little further, I wonder why?
What to expect from the lowest denominator of the poor? If they knew things, they wouldn't be poor. If all else fails they can always blame inheritance and demand communistic redistribution.  :P

Poor is poor because he doesn't know how to steal. Some of the rich can avoid from paying a lot of taxes why because they know how to avoid but on the other hand poor can't because in some countries they pays before gets the payment. I'm not blaming rich people I'm blaming the system if everyone follows this path then everythink can be collapse. No common education, healt, safety system will work as must be.
This has nothing to do with it. Theft is something that is defined by the law. The rich people are not stealing things, in the topic of taxes that would be tax fraud and usually it ends up wrong. The really rich do not need to commit tax fraud, those is usually done by the less powerful and smart. The really rich buy their exemptions and then legally pay less.

Actually now that you bring up theft, depending on the company type poor people are stealing a lot. They just aren't smart and never use their stolen money to improve their situation. I know for a fact that in the construction business the workers steal a lot.


Title: Re: the system is backwards
Post by: meser# on September 26, 2025, 08:16:21 PM
Poor is poor because he doesn't know how to steal. Some of the rich can avoid from paying a lot of taxes why because they know how to avoid but on the other hand poor can't because in some countries they pays before gets the payment. I'm not blaming rich people I'm blaming the system if everyone follows this path then everythink can be collapse. No common education, healt, safety system will work as must be.
This has nothing to do with it. Theft is something that is defined by the law. The rich people are not stealing things, in the topic of taxes that would be tax fraud and usually it ends up wrong. The really rich do not need to commit tax fraud, those is usually done by the less powerful and smart. The really rich buy their exemptions and then legally pay less.

Actually now that you bring up theft, depending on the company type poor people are stealing a lot. They just aren't smart and never use their stolen money to improve their situation. I know for a fact that in the construction business the workers steal a lot.

If you cannot run exemptions in the tax administration correctly and fairly, the result will theft. That company and those rich people are actually stealing from the pockets of those poor people by using the backwards of the system until they discover. For instances in my country, many companies' taxes deleted by the goverment without proper explaining (which is supporter companies to current government). So they get the exemption from government but is this fair and square? Nope if you ask any Turkish people about this incident they will share the same thing. Neither you or me can't sure %100 in everywhere this tax administration is running fairly and correctly, right? Not all of the rich steal like that but there are many of them like that bro :)

Your view is right I'm not saying you are right poor people can steal also but not as much as the rich. Thats why poor stay poor (by this conversation) :)


Title: Re: the system is backwards
Post by: SUPERSAIAN on September 26, 2025, 08:25:06 PM
Rich people know and employ many methods of tax evasion. They're not exempt from taxes; they simply find ways to lose track of their money. Rather than pay taxes, they use lower amounts to smuggle money out. The tax havens I've heard of before are exactly what this is all about. The reason the rich evade taxes is purely because they exercise power and, with that power, engage in corruption.

This is common practice in almost every country.


Title: Re: the system is backwards
Post by: goldkingcoiner on September 26, 2025, 09:43:29 PM

is there a reason why the rich are the ones that can escape taxes?

Because the system is built by them for them. That is the easiest explaination. But if you wanted a more practical reason it is that they know how to play the system, mainly being born in a family who has been doing it for ages and educating their children to do the same. A normal citizen could use the same short-cuts if they knew about them but they are more worried about their monthly costs and salary. So it is a lack of motivation.


Title: Re: the system is backwards
Post by: slapper on September 26, 2025, 10:21:18 PM
The rich avoid paying taxes due to hierarchy. They are the ones who are at the table of bargaining rules. The rules are passed down to you and me after the inkh dries. Individuals discuss fair share, yet fairness has never been a political slogan. The rich are not evading but rather avoiding, legally. It is morally compromising. Structurally, it is efficiency: wealth moves where it is not punished

States allow this since they are more afraid to lose investment than they are to squeeze their citizens. A billionaire who flees New York makes more headlines than ten thousand workers who are unable to pay rent. The stationary will always be overtaxed and the mobile undervalued by governments. And the rich are the most mobile of all

The psychological reality is that middle and lower classes are left to bear the burden of civic responsibility. This is roads and schools, this is health care, and all funded by the people who cannot run away. The lowest contributors are the ones who use the system the least (billionaires who live in gated compounds, fly with their own planes, send their children to high-priced private schools). The ones who rely on public goods contribute the most

https://www.talkimg.com/images/2025/09/26/UQJuLZ.png


Title: Re: the system is backwards
Post by: coupable on September 26, 2025, 10:49:59 PM

is there a reason why the rich are the ones that can escape taxes?
From where did you get this fantastic idea that all rich people are tax evaders? In which country people can escape from paying taxes wether for their activity or for their wealth? In the countries you mentioned there are rich people from arround the world and the government moderate the economic space to benefit from those rich people by applying taxes. Taxes are almost one of the major funding ressources for the national budget that makes the country what it does actually is.


Title: Re: the system is backwards
Post by: STT on September 26, 2025, 11:18:44 PM
The system is indeed upside down screwed up and down but you shouldn't buy the old line of blame rich people, especially if you come to conclusion to oppose those who run successful businesses.   If they already passed the test the free market can fail a company on, politics is not the arbiter of good and bad it makes itself out to be.
   Nobody in politics truly believes this rhetoric no matter what speeches they make, they need the tax and they need the revenue so their true opinion will be the opposite.

  Business can leave, people with enough money can choose to live wherever they like its only us the working poor who are often chained to the ground paying tax no matter what its wasted on.

The original system was better, no income tax because people shouldn't be forced to jump those hoops while just trying to survive.  You tax the companies always and the tax is within the price you pay for any product.  Then all government is left to do is protect the borders, not be chasing people in circles for the few pennies they earn an hour.
  That whole game is what will never make sense, its inefficient and its counter productive to discourage hard work.


Title: Re: the system is backwards
Post by: savetheFORUM on September 27, 2025, 08:58:03 PM
Good way to dodge admitting you are wrong like most people who responded to this thread. OP did not respond to this thread again so anyone who responds is taking it up seriously.  :D The fact of the matter is that the rich have exempt themselves from taxes. There is no debate there. Some users even responded that the rich pay more taxes. Funny to see poor people defending the system and the rich, everything is working exactly as designed.
In which situation do they get tax exemptions? They might have exemptions maybe by a few percentage but that's because they already are paying that tax elsewhere. Like for eg, you might pay 5% tax on the restaurant bill and you might get rebate or exemption for that 5% in your annual filling. This does look like exemptions but somewhere they already have paid the required tax. Governments are not fool to exempt rich people and tax poor people as they too have to think about their economy.

There is no hiding from taxes. Those who find ways to ignore taxes are caught some or the other way. Maybe not now, but they would be noticed maybe after 5 or 7 years. They would not risking avoiding taxes and will always pay their taxes no matter what. Middle class will pay a minimum due and will get their taxes cleared. The number of tax defaults have reduced drastically over the years considering the strict actions taken.


Title: Re: the system is backwards
Post by: el kaka22 on September 28, 2025, 01:01:23 PM
There is a simple way to increase taxes a lot, and force these rich folks and companies to pay more taxes without making them leave your nation; exit tax. If you have a huge and successful company in a nation, and you put a giant exit tax, then it makes no sense to leave that nation. Imagine you make a billion dollars a year, and you pay nearly no tax because you claim to also spend that much, then the government says you are going to end up paying tax based on revenue now, not the cost, which is horrible for a business, who knows how much they are spending, right?

Well, you would want to either close shop, or go somewhere else. If you close shop, that is fine, government can't make you continue. But if you want to go somewhere else, they could ask for 10 years money in advance, and suddenly it is not lucrative to leave.


Title: Re: the system is backwards
Post by: WillyAp on September 28, 2025, 01:07:51 PM
In which situation do they get tax exemptions?

You don't pay taxes on credits. There is a loophole if you will. It should give people payed wages an incentive to try. 


Title: Re: the system is backwards
Post by: aylabadia05 on September 28, 2025, 01:22:45 PM
<snip>

is there a reason why the rich are the ones that can escape taxes?
There's no reason for the wealthy to escape tax evasion if the system is implemented according to applicable regulations, unless they are simply avoiding paying taxes.
Taxpayers are legally required to pay taxes on their assets, regardless of the amount, because taxes ultimately return to the people in various forms, such as public facilities used by the public, and lower education and healthcare costs.

Taxes imposed by government institutions, as stipulated in regulations, will be implemented as intended. If someone escapes, it means something is not working as it should and should be investigated with suspicion of potential abuse of the system.


Title: Re: the system is backwards
Post by: wozzek23 on September 30, 2025, 08:23:24 AM
I would strongly oppose to what you say. Wealthy people are the ones paying taxes no matter what they do. If not, they do face consequences or either they have to live a normal life pretending they are poor. I don't think any wealthy personal will do this. Instead, they would prefer paying taxes and live a secure and stressfree life. They don't have to worry about taxes if their earning sources are genuine. No matter how strong your connections are or what your political position is in the society, you still have to pay taxes or bear the consequences.

Middle class or poor people already have a very limited earning sources and even the feds will not pressurise them to pay heavy taxes. The taxes they pay will be minimum or some might not even pay anything. They can escape but wealthy person can never escape from paying taxes.


Title: Re: the system is backwards
Post by: Rikimaruu on September 30, 2025, 08:55:15 AM
why is it that the wealthy ones usually exempt from paying taxes? when you are rich, you can basically pay no taxes and it will not be considered illegal exactly. you will not be filed a case if you avoid paying taxes no matter how. sometimes you are even exempt like for example living in uae or in monaco, the wealthiest people do not need to be paying taxes. but why is that? aren't the wealthy ones supposed to be paying more? instead it is the ones from middle class or lower that are paying so much for taxes

is there a reason why the rich are the ones that can escape taxes?

Rich people actually pay taxes, the law and government make more money from these people than the poor, what do you mean they don't pay taxes? There are ways to avoid taxes if you are rich, maybe thats what you talking about? It comes with some caviat, I  remembered when Robert kiyosaki said he has a way of not paying taxes and, his point is actually on leveraging debt and structuring finances through corporations to legally reduce taxable income.

Not all rich men are this smart, not all rich men knows that using debt to access wealth without triggering taxable event is a big deal, I believe every real estate owners or builders should understand better, instead of selling an appreciated asset in the real estate business which will incur capital gains taxes, they can take out a loan against the assets value.

If you don't know now you should now, that borrowing money is not considered as an income, it will not be taxed.


Title: Re: the system is backwards
Post by: jaberwock on October 02, 2025, 04:50:33 PM
It is not true that wealthy people don't pay taxes. They pay more taxes than the poor. Most countries use the Progressive system of taxation. This means the more you earn, the higher the percentage of tax you pay on your income. There is also the regressive tax system, where everybody pays a flat rate no matter what they earn.

Some countries use both types of taxes on different taxes, but in most countries, income tax is usually a progressive system.
In the regressive tax system, people don't pay the same actual amount, but they pay the same percentage. The difference is, it weighs more on a person earning $500 a month to pay 10%, than it does for a person earning a million.
You are wrong in 2 parts. The "legal" documents show that if you do make more, then you pay more taxes, that part is true. However, you are forgetting two things that makes it near impossible for them to pay taxes.

First of all the rich own companies, their money isn't cash that come into their accounts like us poor folk, when I have a salary, my tax is automatically cut from it, but when you end up with a rich persons company make money, they can show costs and legally make it a break even company and not pay taxes, even if they do not have that much costs, they can just write "RnD company in Malta got paid 100 million dollars from us" and that's just their company (Nike does exactly this).

Secondly, when the rich wants to take some money out of their company, because they want to buy a 13th mansion or something, they just take a loan from the bank, and then they pay the banks loan with their company profits. That way, they made zero dollars, because bank paid for it, and they just paid their debt to bank. So they end up with no profit, and no tax.


Title: Re: the system is backwards
Post by: Mate2237 on October 02, 2025, 07:00:16 PM
How can you expect a poor man and a rich man to have thesame treatment in a country. This is not possible because the rich contribute allot to the economic developments a country this is the reason why most countries have preferential treatment to the rich.


But just to put the records straight the rich still pays taxes the countries that you mentioned have special tax policies which is targeted at attracting the rich to come over to their countries. This is because these countries wants the rich to come and invest in into their economy.


Title: Re: the system is backwards
Post by: GeorgeJohn on October 02, 2025, 07:12:00 PM
why is it that the wealthy ones usually exempt from paying taxes? when you are rich, you can basically pay no taxes and it will not be considered illegal exactly. you will not be filed a case if you avoid paying taxes no matter how. sometimes you are even exempt like for example living in uae or in monaco, the wealthiest people do not need to be paying taxes. but why is that? aren't the wealthy ones supposed to be paying more? instead it is the ones from middle class or lower that are paying so much for taxes

is there a reason why the rich are the ones that can escape taxes?
I haven't experienced that a wealthy is exempted from paying  tax, I think that people that is exempted is people that is involved in the governing Council of the country such as politicians and the negatives of the Parliament,

Any wealthy somebody that owns a company will pay tax because tax is one of the things that generate revenue to the country, so even though you are a politician in well organized country and you owns a company or any industry you must to give or pay a tax to the government, except its a corrupt nation that's sentimental.


Title: Re: the system is backwards
Post by: M47AK16 on October 02, 2025, 08:42:50 PM
First of all the rich own companies, their money isn't cash that come into their accounts like us poor folk, when I have a salary, my tax is automatically cut from it, but when you end up with a rich persons company make money, they can show costs and legally make it a break even company and not pay taxes, even if they do not have that much costs, they can just write "RnD company in Malta got paid 100 million dollars from us" and that's just their company (Nike does exactly this).

Secondly, when the rich wants to take some money out of their company, because they want to buy a 13th mansion or something, they just take a loan from the bank, and then they pay the banks loan with their company profits. That way, they made zero dollars, because bank paid for it, and they just paid their debt to bank. So they end up with no profit, and no tax.
Yeah, this is how corporates and then rich people hide their revenue to pay lesser taxes. Even it is not illegal as per law, they are enforcing individuals or salaried to pay more taxes. So, not a legal thing in my opinion or at least not morally a right thing. If corporates pay taxes as per their original revenue then I guess there would be lesser burden on individuals.

Talking loans for expanding business is common but using the same to escape from taxes sounds newer to me. I read Warren Buffet pledges his won company's shares to his day to day life but not by selling his shares. So, he never needs to pay taxes for his income. All income are in shares and using same shares to avoid taxes as well.


Title: Re: the system is backwards
Post by: Curious T on October 02, 2025, 10:24:56 PM
First of all the rich own companies, their money isn't cash that come into their accounts like us poor folk, when I have a salary, my tax is automatically cut from it, but when you end up with a rich persons company make money, they can show costs and legally make it a break even company and not pay taxes, even if they do not have that much costs, they can just write "RnD company in Malta got paid 100 million dollars from us" and that's just their company (Nike does exactly this).

What you said are just ways corporations and wealthy people use to avoid taxes, this doesn't mean they don't pay taxes or they pay less than the poor. They still pay taxes, they only look for ways to not pay more than that. The company pays different forms of taxes. They can't just magically declare numbers that are not true or say they made less profit just to avoid paying tax. It is audited and when they're caught they pay dearly for it. There is a difference between tax evasion and tax avoidance. Tax evasion is illegal.

Secondly, when the rich wants to take some money out of their company, because they want to buy a 13th mansion or something, they just take a loan from the bank, and then they pay the banks loan with their company profits. That way, they made zero dollars, because bank paid for it, and they just paid their debt to bank. So they end up with no profit, and no tax.

Where did you get this information? The way they escape paying tax here is on their income. The money is recorded as borrowed money, so its not taxable, but to if they build a "13th mansion" with the loan, they have to pay property tax for that building. The idea that the rich don't pay tax is flawed. They pay taxes

The government give tax brakes to some companies for various reasons like attracting investments and creating jobs, but this has been heavily criticized. Thee are also tax credits. This is somethin Amazon has used very well to reduce the tax they pay. Its basically just when the government reduces how much tax you're going to pay because you did something significant for the community with your money. 


Title: Re: the system is backwards
Post by: STT on October 02, 2025, 11:45:17 PM
If the house you own is paying taxes, most people would argue they are paying taxes not the house.  Same is true of owning companies who pay taxes, you are being taxed no doubt.

What is easy to say is the giant amount of tax on everything is everywhere, what is worse of all is the destruction of currency which punishes the poorest people of all because they cant even earn money and not lose it overnight they cant save properly or anything much without it being gifted back to government.


Title: Re: the system is backwards
Post by: Antotena on October 03, 2025, 12:04:40 PM
why is it that the wealthy ones usually exempt from paying taxes? when you are rich, you can basically pay no taxes and it will not be considered illegal exactly. you will not be filed a case if you avoid paying taxes no matter how. sometimes you are even exempt like for example living in uae or in monaco, the wealthiest people do not need to be paying taxes. but why is that? aren't the wealthy ones supposed to be paying more? instead it is the ones from middle class or lower that are paying so much for taxes

is there a reason why the rich are the ones that can escape taxes?

There is difference between avoiding tax and evading tax, avoiding tax is a way people reduce their tax, it's not like they don't pay the tax, they do but instead of going through the simple route, go through other ways that can cut down their tax to the bearest minimum. Tax evasion on the other hand is a big crime, if you don't pay your tax, you will be sued and you can get jail for evading tax completely, even your business can get shutdown when you evade tax.

You know one thing been a wealthy person, you are at advantage with many things. For example, the governments doesn't tax borrow money, if you have an asset you can use it as collateral and take a loan, use the borrow money for whatever you want to do, you will not be paying tax for the capital but the profit generated, you can pay back the capital and still hold your asset until when you are ready to sell your asset, this is one of the advantages of been a wealthy person, using money to look for more money.


Title: Re: the system is backwards
Post by: Synchronice on October 03, 2025, 12:45:16 PM
why is it that the wealthy ones usually exempt from paying taxes? when you are rich, you can basically pay no taxes and it will not be considered illegal exactly. you will not be filed a case if you avoid paying taxes no matter how. sometimes you are even exempt like for example living in uae or in monaco, the wealthiest people do not need to be paying taxes. but why is that? aren't the wealthy ones supposed to be paying more? instead it is the ones from middle class or lower that are paying so much for taxes

is there a reason why the rich are the ones that can escape taxes?
What's the point of being wealthy? To be able to afford and to be able to do things that others can't do. Being wealthy means being powerful because we live in a society where money means everything and people will do anything to get that money, so, wealth controls everything. Since this is the case, it automatically means that power is in their hands and logically, they do whatever they want. That's why rich people don't pay taxes, they own the money and control the society, they have the power in their hands and when you have the power, you decide the fate.


Title: Re: the system is backwards
Post by: justdimin on October 03, 2025, 06:28:43 PM
What's the point of being wealthy? To be able to afford and to be able to do things that others can't do. Being wealthy means being powerful because we live in a society where money means everything and people will do anything to get that money, so, wealth controls everything. Since this is the case, it automatically means that power is in their hands and logically, they do whatever they want. That's why rich people don't pay taxes, they own the money and control the society, they have the power in their hands and when you have the power, you decide the fate.
There is a limit to that though. Like if you spend 50 million on a great mansion, and then you spend 10-15 million on some cars, and you buy some great company for 100 million that makes you money, and put aside some money at some simple vanguard or bonds or gold type of shit that gives you small returns, at that point, you are done? Like what else can you really want?

You have let's say a billion dollars networth, spent 200-300 million on shit, and then rest is making you money, that's literally enough to live the way you want to live however you want. Private jet rides for a dinner in Paris? You can afford it, or you want to buy a summer house? Can afford it. All in all, there is nothing that can stop you at all. After that, after that billion dollars, rest is just for power tripping, nothing more.


Title: Re: the system is backwards
Post by: Fortify on October 03, 2025, 09:10:04 PM
why is it that the wealthy ones usually exempt from paying taxes? when you are rich, you can basically pay no taxes and it will not be considered illegal exactly. you will not be filed a case if you avoid paying taxes no matter how. sometimes you are even exempt like for example living in uae or in monaco, the wealthiest people do not need to be paying taxes. but why is that? aren't the wealthy ones supposed to be paying more? instead it is the ones from middle class or lower that are paying so much for taxes

is there a reason why the rich are the ones that can escape taxes?

This is the fault of governments and competitions between governments to draw in as many rich people as possible, by offering certain perks. It's how places like Monaco and Dubai were able to attract millionaires/billionaires - no income tax, no sales tax, etc. but it's detrimental for the most developed and civilized societies where many of these people make the most profit. It's a very difficult problem to solve, but places like the EU and North America can put pressure on smaller nations that act as tax havens or allow citizenship to be easily bought for tax avoidance purposes. Frankly some of them should be banned or face heavy restrictions upon re-entry, because they would soon get bored of the fakeness of places like the UAE if they were stuck living there forever.


Title: Re: the system is backwards
Post by: slapper on October 03, 2025, 10:09:49 PM
The system is indeed upside down screwed up and down but you shouldn't buy the old line of blame rich people, especially if you come to conclusion to oppose those who run successful businesses.   If they already passed the test the free market can fail a company on, politics is not the arbiter of good and bad it makes itself out to be.
   Nobody in politics truly believes this rhetoric no matter what speeches they make, they need the tax and they need the revenue so their true opinion will be the opposite.

  Business can leave, people with enough money can choose to live wherever they like its only us the working poor who are often chained to the ground paying tax no matter what its wasted on.

The original system was better, no income tax because people shouldn't be forced to jump those hoops while just trying to survive.  You tax the companies always and the tax is within the price you pay for any product.  Then all government is left to do is protect the borders, not be chasing people in circles for the few pennies they earn an hour.
  That whole game is what will never make sense, its inefficient and its counter productive to discourage hard work.
Capital is a non-perishable commodity, labor is location-specific. Companies are registered in Delaware or Ireland, billionaires have five different passports, and in the meantime, the person with $35k on his hands is subject to review because the algorithm identified his bank account activity

However, accusing the system is not who made it like this. The carried interest loophole, the 1986 tax reform, and the step-up basis of inherited wealth. People who passed your free market test and then instantly went out of their way to rig the next round, lobbied those into existence. Good-faith market participation and successful business are not equal and assuming that we are doing it is how we got in this situation

The nostalgia about your pre-income-tax years does not acknowledge that robber barons literally owned towns during the period in question. Corporate script, Pinkertons busting unions, child labour in the coals wanted that's what unmoderated capitalism looks like