Bitcoin Forum

Have you guys seen this already? https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/amend-irs-notice-2014-2taxing-virtual-currencybitcoin-property-stifles-new-technologycreates/z7WtKZGY

They only have 770 signatures so far; surely we can get at least the 100k requested from this forum alone! I have to believe that there are at least 100k US-based forum members here.

The petition is not something silly like asking for bitcoin not to be taxed at all, but rather to change the classification so it won't hurt crypto as much. Please take a look and share the link.

It really isn't that bad. As long as you don't cash out, there is nothing to worry about - as far as I know.

Or mine it or transact with it.

Who would sign a petition that say I have BTC, please audit me?

<800 signatures in one week. This petition is never going to succeed.

The problem is if you spend coin, you have to figure out how much the coin was worth at that moment and thus how much you gained by spending it, and at the end of the year pay taxes on all those transactions. This will effectively stop a lot of people from using it at all. Which will in turn hurt the value big time. How long do you think bitcoin is going to last if it's a total pain in the ass to actually use it as a currency? You can't have an economy that only consists of investors and miners jerking each other off.

blockchain.info displays the value at the time of the transaction.

only for bitcoins, or for altcoins as well? and where does it pull the value info from - different exchanges are offering different prices for BTC/USD at any given time.

Bitcoin being classified as property is far, far, far better than having it be classified as currency.

Bitcoin as property = 0% tax most of the time, sometimes up to 20%

Bitcoin as currency = 25% tax most of the time, sometimes up to 39.6%

Frankly I doubt the accuracy of those figure but regardless, I do believe a higher tax rate would be less damaging to Bitcoin (and crypto in general) than massively impractical record-keeping requirements.

OK, so wallet programs need to generate a log, which they probably do already. At the end of a year, you run a program which takes that log, looks at the published price as of each transaction date, calculates your gain or loss, and computes how much tax you owe, or whether you have a tax loss to deduct.

Computers are good at this stuff. If you have a US brokerage account, the broker generates a Form 1099 for you each year, with gains and losses worked out for you. Bitcoin exchanges could offer that as a service.

That's because you are ignorant.  If you don't understand a topic (such as tax law) you should refrain from commenting on it.  Do some research and then come back.

Ohhhhhh okay my mistake, clearly. 0% tax most of the time you say? So clearly you think the majority of users aren't mining, trading to fiat, or spending frequently right? Because all of those would incur tax. So pull your head squarely out of your ass and try not to make deceptive sweeping statements next time.

Is this the much-praised friendliness and broad-mindedness of the Doge community?

No, I haven't ! Going to share it in tweeter  ;)
I am sure we'll get more that 100,000 people to sign it

Where did you get this info? I wonder how actually is this situatuion possible ? I was always sure that IRS and Govn do everything that's better for them not for us and here it looks opposite

Firstly, I'm not really a part of the doge community. I am holding a small amount of doge, that's about it.

Second, if you read the posts, I wasn't the first to be a douche. I respond to hostility with hostility as a general rule.


That's because it's not an accurate representation of what is actually being announced by the IRS. Hence my first comment that I doubt it's accuracy.

When you divest yourself of property, it is an event for the capital gains tax.  The amount that is taxable is the difference.  So if you buy at $100 and spend at $300 you have a capital gains of $200.  That $200 is taxed at the capital gains rate, which is usually 0% but sometimes 20%.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_gains_tax_in_the_United_States

When you divest yourself of foreign currency, it is an event for the income tax.  Again, the amount that is taxable is the difference.  So if you buy at $100 and spend at $300 you have an income of $200.  That $200 is taxed at the income tax rate, which is usually 25% but sometimes 39.6%.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Income_tax_in_the_United_States

There is something wrong with society when we are afraid to speak our minds out of fear of the very people that are supposed to work for us. Any historians want to chime in?

Good luck with this I'm very interested to see what the outcome with this is and hope you can get others on board that don't agree with the changes.

The whole concept of being afraid to let on that you have bitcoin (or other coins) for fear of drawing the IRS' attention is absurd. Here's an idea - don't cheat on your taxes. Then you have nothing to worry about. Even if they did have a special list of people who signed petitions or talked about bitcoin online etc and they were checking it against tax records, if they see you reporting other income/capital gains then why would they audit you unless there seemed to be a discrepancy?

The real problem is we still have 1000s of retards with the "durrr bitcoin is magic money with no taxation durrrr..." idea stuck in their heads.

I am already fully expecting an audit as everything is in this return and they still owe me, so that's not my concern.

 

Why not ask them for evidence that their rules even apply?

The problem with the IRS regulations is that it prevents other people from adapting BTC.

If you do not own/use BTC as of now and would have to keep records of how much you pay for BTC and the value of goods/services that you buy with BTC and pay taxes on any gains (and take a deduction on any losses) then you have little incentive to use Bitcoin.

The more people that use Bitcoin, generally the higher the long term price will be.

This! Unless specifically asked I will never refer to bit coins in any dealings with government.