Bitcoin Forum

Thought this would be better as a discussion and didn't want to hijack someone's thread...

I don't at all claim to be an expert, I'm just learning and overwhelmed by information overload...and I'm trying hard to get the gist of it but I recognize a lot of this is challenging for me to understand...and I've literally been absorbing information for 3 or 4 days straight...and I STILL have questions just on getting signed up and getting started, and the answers I'm getting help about 45% but leave HUGE gaps in what I need to know. That's because I genuinely desire to know and learn.

Joe Blow...not so much.

And it got me thinking about Mainstream America (or any population, but mainly ours because they're long on dumbass, short on connect the dots, with the attention span of a carrot)...and how this is going to happen.

How exactly is the mainstream public supposed to feel excited about bitcoin when they get handed this kind of information from tech and dev nerds on how to secure their money?

Mainstream public is used to "here's my card/scan/receipt/done" and an online account they can keep up with their purchase and balance...and a password...and somebody else to make sure their stuff is secure.

Downloading stuff and all this encryption and python talk isn't going to help BTC win popularity points. That is over the head of most of mainstream.

So, pretend Edith Bunker or Rose Nylund, or Anna Nichole Smith or Jessica Simpson or Ann Coulter or Sarah Palin or Kim Kardashian or Honey Boo Boo wants to start buying bitcoin...

Please share how you'd explain bitcoin and how to use it with them because that's about the mentality level of the ones who will make or break btc becoming a long term "thing" in life.

How would you handle it?

Say you encounter one of them, or your grandma, or someone who isn't much of a techno nerd and doesn't spend a lot of time online...please offer your easy 1-2-3 walkthrough that would help them go from zero knowledge to off and running with the rest of the "insiders" in the shortest amount of time - without expecting them to read anything more than the "terms of service" or whatever.

I see this as a huge barrier to mainstream use...even though I've pointed out the google glass and eaze app coming soon...might be a snap to nod twice and make a bitcoin transaction but I can see an instant breakdown when Joe Blow goes, "okay, wtf is bitcoin?"

Your walkthroughs are welcome... ;D

Bitcoin is evolving and becoming more user friendly.  It will happen fast as entrepreneurs rush to take advantage of the opportunities unfolding.

Part of the answer to making btc more user friendly will be apps, hardware wallets, etc. 

You are still early.

Bitcoin is not ready for mainstream yet.  Everyone here can be considered still an early adopter or speculator.

Eventually we will have super secure hardware wallets that backup to your computer/cloud account.  We will have exchanges with good business practices and security that won't get knocked out by a mere hacker. We will have seamless payment system integration around the world.  Public won't need to know how anything works.  All that matters is the balance showing on your hardware wallet and knowing only you can unlock it with your fingerprint or voice command.  All of these things very smart people are beginning to work on now.  They should be ready in about 5 to 10 years.

We are all visionaries who can see the future.

Welcome!

I think I'll need to search who Honey Boo Boo is. :)

To be honest I don't think I would recommend it right now to someone who wasn't willing to put in the effort to keep themselves secure and make good choices.

It does need to happen before Bitcoin can be considered a success, but it's going to take time and support by real companies with a real marketing budget.

What you're seeing now is like the early days of the Internet, with just academics on it, doing everything in complex text mode interfaces and talking gobbledegook. But worse than that even, because with Bitcoin you can send your funds instantly to someone else with no possibility of getting them returned.

Because it's so early, very few of us pioneers are good at marketing and training, but with greater adoption and promise of profit comes companies that can afford to hire that talent. You can already see it with companies like Bitpay and Coinbase. Look at this new Trezor hardware wallet that is shipping pre-orders now. It promises to be just this gizmo that makes things work in a simple way that a lot more people can understand.

So right now I think I would limit my explanations of Bitcoin to what it is and how it works, but stress that if they want to get involved at this stage they will need to do some learning and that isn't for everyone.

People did not trust fiat currencies at first, but the person behind them managed very well to get them accepted by the populace.
Also, services like Coinbase are actually very simple and secure (they keep 97% of their Bitcoins in cold storage, and they were recently audited).

But even if Bitcoin never gets mainstream adoption, there's a bright future for it. It still represents quite less than 1% of the world economy, and I'm sure that a considerably bigger percentage than that has the intelligence and interest in economy needed to realize the value that is Bitcoin; how flawed fiat is, and how cryptocurrencies offers an easy way out of that system.

Don't. If you want to keep a parcel of faith in humanity ;)

That would be spawn of this... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yatEoutYoww and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dzt7oCFN3ek (I don't care what anyone says, they're all products of incest, inbreeding or bestiality one...) that this country thought needed to have their own tv show.

Related somewhere in a short line to this guy - the one with the actual talent  ;D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uzae_SqbmDE

and as disturbing as it is, they're the sub level mainstream america (embarrassing as it is). I have no fear that they'll ever end up on this forum, but they'll end up in walmart as a second home...

if bitcoin replaces 1% of world's fiat, each coin would be worth about $70,000

Explaining bitcoin to "Joe Blow" today would be like trying to explain the internet to "Joe Blow" in the 1980's.  They aren't going to get it, it's going to go over their head, and it's going to seem like a "techie" thing for "geeks" and "nerds".  Of course, a few decades later and now even the most simpleton of individuals seems to have figured out how to post updates on Facebook, and twitter.  Many jocks get their sports information from the internet, the online retail marketplace is huge, and email has all but replaced the post office.

Bitcoin is in its infancy as a technology protocol.  There will be many layers of usability built on top of the current protocol.

I reckon it depends how financially literate a person is. If they can handle a bank account number and transferring money between accounts, then they should be able to relate to bitcoin addresses, transfers and transactions fees. If they can handle the idea of foreign exchange markets and rates, then btc's price in relation to other currencies should be okay.

The problem is with people who don't really understand about bank accounts, and have never dealt with currency transactions. "What? the price of bitcoin changes? every day? My money is going a number? what?"

Did Honey Boo poo really say something about btc?  ???

Electronic money, a bit like paypal, but no fees. You can pay for everything from your phone and it's very secure. <insert idiot rapper name here> uses it all the time.


DONE

I'm not really convinced. I have a relative who is extremely smart - a member of Mensa, financially literate, would never fall for a financial scam etc. … But they are from the pre-Internet age and are just not confident nor competent with computers, and can't seem to apply their skills and logical reasoning from others areas into that one.

As a result they do stupid things online. They are irrationally scared when their computer does or tells them something unexpected, and they are inappropriately trusting of things that they see online that on the surface sound convincing. Their computer has been infected by malware several times.

I cannot imagine this person successfully and safely using Bitcoin as it stands today, and while I have been able to explain Bitcoin to them and I believe they do have a good grasp of how it works in theory, I would never suggest that they get involved until the point when they don't need to think about it to be involved, because everyone is involved.

There are fees:
"Really low fees, especially for large transactions" is much more accurate.

Don't overcomplicate it for "accuracy". That is where everyone goes wrong when they try to explain bitcoin.

When your idiot uncle buys a laptop and asks how the internet works, do you explain low level programming, networks, protocols etc? No, you tell him to double click on that thing, type in google.com and he is on the internet.

People's elevator pitch for bitcoin should be on the same level if they want people to get it.

Fine, then say "low fees".
Same number of words, without the gross inaccuracy.

Electronic money, a bit like paypal, but much lower fees. You can pay for everything from your phone and it's very secure. <insert idiot rapper name here> uses it all the time.

DONE

There, go forth and spread the (abbreviated) word of bitcoin to the masses.

I'd suggest they read about bitcoin, then ask any questions they have, then read again, and have someone walk them through how to use and secure bitcoin. Even then BTC may not be suitable at this stage for laymen. It's probably for the best too, as they might end up losing them, and lead to more negative publicity.

TTsssssttt
And here I thought you had actual video of Honey...
 :'(

I would start by asking them to explain the bank routing system as well as how debit transfers work and how your transaction is secured.

You know...just so you have a starting point.

In re. the first video link: If a person figures out how to market Bitcoin to its 1,140,595 viewers, they, and their family, would never have to work another day in their life, for they've uncovered the nirvana marketing secret.

Then again, it could be just as simple as convincing Honey Boo Boo to embrace Bitcoin, then discuss it to her viewership. But, Honey Boo Boo doesn't hold a candle to https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V3ROsVTKVDw with her 24,323,618 views.

I think that paying $1,000 USD via BTC to a hundred Honey Boo Boos (only $100,000 USD total would have to be outlaid), Bitcoin users would explode to tens of millions of active users, some of which losing said precious without any way to retrieve them.

WTF is Honey Boo Boo ? :o

Ain't got a clue, but only if there were some sort of search engine thingy on the internet so that one could hunt it down. Sadly, it probably be years before such is created, let alone it probably be too expensive to use. May I suggest asking one of your Facebook or Twitter fans if any one of them ever heard of such an animal? I'm guessing it's related to a Honey Badger or Wolverine.

Back to that yet-to-be-developed-search-the-internet-thingy. If it is developed, I hope they call it Sextillion, for that's all the internet is good for anyway - SEX & Tillion-like products.

http://www.miazo.com/img_work/miazo_tillion.jpg

Sometime in the future, we hope people can send money over the internet thingy at very little or no cost. That would be grand! It could be called CoinNets or something similar.

Ahh We need bitcoin to have commercials now I think the bitcoin foundation,  need to do TV AD avertising. Im kinda shock with all the btc being made no one has thought of it. 

Sent a few mBtc to Bitcoin100 on your behalf for making me laugh ;D

Thanks, bud. I was hoping that my post would bring a smile to others, not meant as a diss toward whom I quoted.

Bitcoin is similar to bacon in the sense that they are both epic.  :P

Seems it is some kind of a TV serial in US, which majority of the people in rest of the world have never heard about. The problem with US people is, they think, they are at the center of the universe and rest of the world are very interested about their products. Hopefully Bitcoin World is not US centric...

Nah.

Many of us just think that the average reader of an internet forum can figure out how to use and internet search engine.

Sounds like if Honey Boo Boo is to appeal to the non-US masses it needs to be spoon-fed because they certainly won't do their own research.  ;)

U missed the point Danny. Will u care if Mehr Tarar or Rakhi Sawant says WTF is Bitcoin ?

It's a fat person and a kid, and they are for some reason way overdressed... There, I researched it for you with my über internet skills.

And you either missed the point or didn't bother to read the original post.

If you had, you'd have seen that the discussion is about whether bitcoin is too complex and difficult for the average person to understand.

The names "Honey Boo Boo", "Joe Blow", "Edith Bunker", "Rose Nylund", "Anna Nichole Smith", "Jessica Simpson", "Ann Coulter", "Sarah Palin", "Kim Kardashian", and "your grandma" were all used as examples of average people.  This is obvious from context even if you don't bother to search for any of these names on the internet.

Careful:
If you spoon-feed Honey Boo Boo she will spit the food back out in your face.  ::)

Yesterday OP asked the same question in another thread and I gave the answer...

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=558099.msg6089237#msg6089237

I never opposed the idea of taking bitcoin to the masses ...rather that would make my coins more valuable. Here my Q was simple and straight forward which probably does not deserve the reply Bruno made...

WTF is Honey Boo Boo ?

You are correct.  In general, trolls do not deserve any sort of reply.  I should take my own advice on that matter and stop this discussion here.

We have drifted significantly away from the topic of the thread and are likely to have all of these posts removed by a moderator anyhow.

Before they ask the questions they have it is better to read about bitcoin twice first

who is Honey Boo Boo? Sounds stupid

of course it's like bacon. Sleep well Honey Boo Boo!

They wont do an internet search, but we have to ...to know who they are ...if we dont ...some Hero Member will call us Troll :D

She is a fat, spoiled American child who ended up in a "stupid" TV show.

So this Honey Boo Boo is an example of the average people in America? Good to know :D

The OP seems to think so.  It is up to each individual to determine for themselves how much they trust the opinion of the OP.

Based on some of the other posts that I've seen from them, I don't value their opinion very much on any topics.

FYI:
Sarah Palin & Kim Kardashian are not nearly as smart as "Joe Blow".

Isn't this joke about USAnians getting a bit old? I don't have to look far to see overweight and ignorant people in the EU. And in fact, some of the most open minded and kind people I have met were people who moved to my country from the USA.

My wife asks me questions like that about bitcoin

Perhaps they moved away from the USA because they were open minded and kind people?
I Love some things about the USA, but the "average American" is pretty scary these days.

FTFY

 ;D

I still have some optimism about the "average person", but education needs to radically improve soon.
Pooblic Sckool hads an effection on my ebilaties.

i hate comparing gold/paypal to bitcoin.. but its what average joe understands.

so: walkthrough
1) gold is not insured by a government should you lose it, you cant simply ask your bank for a new lump of gold in the manner you ask for a new debit card. you need to learn how to secure and look after gold yourself.

telling people the combination to your safe is risky, ptting your gold into a strangers safe is even more riskier, gold is not like FIAT at all.

2) be aware that gold prices change alot more then FIAT prices

3) replace the word 'gold' with 'bitcoin' and you are getting the picture.

4) metal is heavy and takes effort to move between people, having to use postal services to transport it. bitcoin is not metal. its computer code. which can travel the world in seconds, like email. so imagine where posting a letter became email, where instead of packaging it up into a box to send on a truck, a program on your computer sends the valuable message instead.

5) if you have ever used paypal you have a username and password to get to play around with your wealth, the username is your identity. and the password is your proof that the identity belongs to you. where you are safe to tell people your username so they can send you funds. but never ever tell anyone your password. Well bitcoin is similar. the public key is your username. you can have millions of them if you want and you dont even need to register or fill in lots of forms to get the keys. the private key, that is your password. DONT TELL ANYONE

6) the private key is the most important thing of all. the private is not only the proof of access but the final public key is created via the private key. you can make, as i said before many private keys and they all generate a public key that only responds to that private key

7) if talking about public and private has started to lose your understanding then replace public with username and private with password. to get you back on track.

8) if you want to go into more detail on how the transactions work, read-on. or use this point as a chance to make yourself a coffee

9) imagine a cashiers cheque. it has a payee line, an amount and a bunch of numbers along the bottom to represent who it is from. when cashing a cheque. a clearing house service will check the FROM information to ensure funds are available. the clearing house will take a few days changing the balance of where the funds came from. and then crediting you with that amount. the banks instead of just reading the ledger of every cheque ever processed to see who sent what to who. to get a proper balance of who owns what at any point in time. they have a separate "balance" database that corresponds to the ledger of.. 'cheque stubs'.
with bitcoin its similar at the start it needs to know where the funds came from and that the person is authorized to send them, the amount being sent, and the recipients details. BUT instead of having a easy to use "account balance" database that can be manipulated (printing money) the proof of value held is done purely by adding up and subtracting the ledger/cheque stubs to get the total.

10) most of you new people dont need to know all the intricate details of how cheques work. same for bitcoin. as long as you know that it does work and is safe. well bitcoin is ALOT safer then cheque clearing and bank account balances in this respect.

11) the even better part is that there is not one single bank/clearing house that has all the copies of the ledger/cheque stubs. with bitcoin anyone has the entire ledger/cheque stub listings and anyone can, with the right program/website be able to check the total value currently held by any public address.

12) this stops people/banks from tampering with it, because if the millions of people who have a copy, notice a single ledger/cheque stub listing that has been altered or does not show the value previously existing in that persons previous ledger/stub. it would be ignored.

Look at everything that is happening. Read my thread on this and you will see bitcoin isn't really going anywhere. At most it will replace Paypal, but people are very self deluded and believe that it "HAS TO" replace Paypal or become bigger. No it doesn't have to become bigger or have more volume. It's all supply and demand. Right now there isn't much demand.


Here is an excerpt from my thread I think will provide insight on a truthful look at btc.

""Personally, I incur 0% fees per year on my credit cards. All of them have no annual fee, no fees for bank transfers ever on my cards, no late payment fees ever for an unlimited amount of times, 1 and 2% cash back on everything(one of my cards is 1% but it is MasterCard I have to sometimes use), I get 5% cash back on purchases in the rotating 3 month categories(I  have 4 credit cards all linked to one b ank account, and whichever card has the 5% off of whatever I am buying I use that). So it becomes extremely wrong to advocate Bitcoin be used for rich/middle/lower middle class people. I only make 47,000 a year Salary, I am 24 years old, 2 years out of college and I am at my first "REAL" job, to tell me to use Bitcoin and get some fees converting from Fiat to BTC, then I spend the BTC, then guess what??? I need more BTC, lets incur more fees converting from Fiat to BTC. Don't you see BTC is really for poor people? If poor people only use BTC back and forth between each other it would be wonderful, but that isn't going to happen for a long long long time, 10s of years later maybe, MAYBE people will all be tech savvy. MAYBE. But BTC doesn't solve any problems for the majority of people and you know it.""


If you wanna read my thread head over to https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=558479.0 as i am directly talking about this kinda thing.

I have to tell you, Number 4 is wrong. People buy and trade on futures of gold and on IOUs. This is done electronically too, you don't need to ever have the gold, and chances are when you buy it you will not be receiving it unless you opt to choose for that (most people don't because it is easier to sell later).

There are many studies that show being overweight is actually healthier than being average weight. Maybe we are on to something! Or maybe we all sit at a desk for our jobs and commute too much and don't sleep enough and have no energy to do anything, + all the fat in foods and horrible stuff we eat also. :)

The problem with this is that you have to trust a third party to honour the IOUs, and rely on overpaid middlemen to do the transfer. Bitcoin is much more practical in that regard, so I think Franky's argument #4 is quite valid.

what you are talking about is not true value.. but fake value.. basicaly making a bet.. its not a store of value.. thus my walkthrogh was talking about actual stores of value. meaning actual gold ownership. not a bet/gamble on a price.

take for example the winklevoss project.
the want people to invest into winklevoss.. not to buy bitcoins directly but to invest into winklevoss, where investers are hoping that winklevoss value will rise because the twins hold X amount (owned by only the twins) and the profits come from the business valuation after a price rise.. not based on investors having bitcoin and the investors own possessions have risen in price.

anyone investing into winklevoss, does not own a single bitcoin. they own a balance amount on a database on a winklevoss server..

do not be tricked into these fake schemes that are not real stores of wealth. they are purely to make more FIAT profits based on gambling. not hoarding rare materials directly.

Triple facepalm:
The value of the USD is down ~97% since the birth of the Federal Reserve and you claim "BTC doesn't solve any problems for the majority of people."
You have not convinced me.  :P

you dont incur fee's but the retailer does..where the hell do you think you get your 5% cashback from.. if they dont charge 5% to customers in interest. then they charge it to retailers. the rule apply the other way. where customers are charged a small fee, the retailer pays less fee's

either way there is a large 2.5%+ swing in price.. bitcoin is far cheaper. EITHER for the customer or the retailer, depending on which card payment provider they have.

bitcoin is also useful for preventing chargebacks which also cost retailers money. retailers receive the customers ACTUAL value far sooner then a credit card provider can give it.

USD is down 97%.... to those that do not understand what this means.. try putting a dollar into context of the price of car fuel, a loaf of bread, average rent/mortgage price.

then price those items from the date of the birth of federal reserve. and you will see that the dollar value has changed alot.

basically a loaf of bread has not been the same price for decades. neither has car fuel or average rent/mortgage

The irony here is that BTC is not "real" value either.   Its a credit someone received for solving a math problem.

You are mistaken, and clearly don't understand how bitcoin works.

So how do bitcoins come into existence?   

And let's not forget the value of trust...

The fact that every single person who's ever heard about bitcoin - outside the ones who came up with the concept of bitcoin - immediately bristles up over the decentralization unregulated "wild west" anonymous aspect as a BAD THING shows how extraordinarily they've been raped, dicked over, and financially fucked around by their own government and financial centers throughout their entire lives that they trust NOBODY with their money - and how brainwashed we've all become to that fact. We know it when it's pointed out but it's all we know, so we're automatically distrustful of the LACK OF central authority...scared to take on real responsibility of pure freedom.

For what it's worth, people of the wild west, pre regulation and central authority, were 99.999% more trusting of their fellow man than they are now...all because of the regulation and central authority conditioning us to embrace and welcome being fucked over and bankrupted and in some countries, welcoming and actually putting up with communism and dictatorships....and kings and queens and princesses - (what, are we, 10?) and religious masters.

Pretty said, eh?

We're all such a jaded lot!  ;D

bitcoin has usefullness.. it fill a need some people have that banks or other things dont offer.
gold has usefullness.. it feels a need for jewellers and electronic manufacturers

as long as there is a need, there is a value

if we were to use your opinion, then gold is only a credit for the guys with excavators and sluice machines, getting the metal out of the ground..........

the irony is that your here on a website about bitcoins, but you seem to not own any.. if you do have bitcoin. then please send your valueless/useless bitcoins to 'seans outpost' donation address..

if you do have bitcoins and you dont wish to donate your coins to a good cause, then you admit that bitcoins do hold a value for you to prefer to keep them.

What you are are trying to say is.   If there is demand there is a market price.

If a $10 gold coin has only $1 worth of gold then the exchange value of that coin is $10 but its intrinsic value is $1.  But that instrinsic value is based on the gold market.   Like electronics makers demanding gold to make electronics.

A better example is stamps. 

A $1 stamp issued by USPS is worth $1 as the exchange value.  But if they don't accept it anymore its worth nothing. I has no intrinsic value.

However,  some stamp collector may pay $1000 for the same stamp if its rare and collectible. Its speculative value is $1000

You're mistaken if you think bitcoin has any properties that make it a store of value.  Its $450 because someone is willing to pay that much.   It could be $10000 or zero.   Same as an ETF share.   Neither is more "real" than the other.   They are both speculative instruments

So why does a newly minted coin silver dollar cost 50 of them to own? Why shouldn't we just pay a buck for it?

Its only worth a buck if you spend it as legal tender.   The seller can sell it at whatever price.   I wouldn't buy it but some collector might

I wouldn't buy it either. If they said it was a 25 dollar round, you pay s/h and if I could spend it as 25 bucks maybe  ;)

Back on topic:
Honey Boo Boo used some of her BTC to buy Mom a snack.
http://amradaronline.files.wordpress.com/2013/07/pp_sandwichpigzillapumpkin.jpg

im just facepalming your failures to understand bitcoin and now your misunderstandings of value..

i am not even going to try teaching you the truth.. so now please just hand over your worthless bitcoins to 'seans outpost' and get on with your life back in the FIAT world. you obviously dont want to be part of bitcoin

Which is worth more?

The BTC or the paper wallet with the private key?  ;D

LOL.   "Fiat world". As if there is any choice.   Grow up child

There's always a choice. The only thing tying us to the fiat world, is our voluntary contribution to it.
Being free is as simple as saying no to those who oppress our ideals, and having the balls to keep walking an unpaved road. Especially now, thanks to the great minds who gave us Bitcoin as a tool of resistance.

Most people are lemmings; It's hard for many to blaze a new trail, but I like it.
"An unpaved road is not as hot in the Summer sun" ~Anon

well i get paid in bitcoin, i buy things in bitcoin.. food, car fuel, drink.. pay rent etc etc.. my world is not fiat dominant.

now have a nice day, kid

You realize BTC isn't legal tender?    As a debtor,  you can't force the creditor to accept BTC as debt payment.   That means IRS,  your landlord, the bank that holds your mortgage,  stores where you buy food,  clothes,  etc..

As the creditor, you have to accept legal tender (USD)  for all debts.   If my tennants pay me rent in USD,  I can't refuse and force them to pay me in BTC, bananas,  gold nuggets, blowjobs or anything not legal tender.

This is the real world.   Grow up and accept it.  It not voluntary.   Its a legal obligation.

There is no choice but to use fiat.  You can barter between private parties but thats about it

I doubt you pay taxes in bitcoin

So what

Some landlords do accept BTC as payment, as well as lawyers, stores selling food and clothes, and there's a service that allows you to pay bills in bitcoins. Keep in mind that Bitcoin is still very young and people are just beginning to see its potential and to trust it. Adoption is still growing exponentially.

And even if we can never pay taxes in BTC, it does not matter. Bitcoin IS the superior currency. As more and more people realize this, its value will grow, the US dollar will get weaker, so these few things that can't legally be paid with Bitcoins will be trivial expense for those who held the coins for long enough - and its value will continue to grow as long as fiat currencies exist.

All is always voluntary, that's the main characteristic of humanity. And trade between private parties is way more significant than trades with the government.

many landlords have accepted blowjobs and other sexual favours when single women fall behind on their rent.

but due to your lack of knowledge of bartering and the real world, it is totally obvious that your stuck in your own little bubble..

i have one question, if you dont hold any value in bitcoin and you have no desire in having an alternative to FIAT.. then ... why are you even on this forum??

I already said you can private barter.  

There is no voluntary trade w govt.   It is a legal requirement to pay taxes on income.   Failure to do so can result in fines and/or jail.

Do you guys pay taxes ?  How is it you cannot comprehend this.   Taxes create demand for USD

USD might weaken but not because of BTC.   Even if BTC become the unofficial currency of USA,  at the end of year everyone will need to buy USD to pay taxes.  Whereas nobody needs to buy BTC for anything other than speculation

Im here to educate people about economics.   My very old and retired father got a tip to invest in BTC.  He was told that it was "digital gold".  "Price never can go down cause deflationary design".  "Currency of the future".   This was when BTC was like $1000.  Glad i told him to stay away.   It got me thinking that there are a lot of bitcoin pumpers out there preying on greed of uninformed investors

I don't want to people get suckered in this pump and dump and lose their money.

My stance is that cryptos have a future as a transfer mechanism but not store of value.   Im mostly  intersted in crypto for academics.   Ripple shows most promise to me

I see that banking is broken but I believe solution is more regulation not less.   Not anarchy nor lassiez faire capitalism,  not wild west currencies.  Fiat is not the problem.   BTC is a fiat by definition!   The problem is derivatives

This thread proves/suggests no one around here (including me) cares at all about Honey Boo Boo.

You sound just like a troll named anonymint.

He does seem pretty smart.   But his politics is way different than mine.

I hate the fact that in Bitcoin world, any dissenting opinion = TROLL FUDSTER

Whether you're the same person is irrelevant, I've exposed your agenda just like I exposed his.  Game over.

It didn't used to be that way:
In June 2011 (the crazy peak of the first big Bullish wave) this forum was flooded with Troll FUD'sters for the first time.
The "good old days" were instantly over.

I  kinda disike that show, supporting idiotic people who do nothing but show off.  I dont know but that shows makes me feel shameful in being an amerian.

They make me want to take a bath. In bleach and acid. For 6 hours just to make sure I got it all off of me.  ;D

bitcoin is a FIAT?? OMG!!!!!!! you are really.. i wont even say the word because you being one, insults others of that same descriptive group.. more so then the word itself..


fiat is basically legal tender, controlled and ruled by government. but hey, let me make a nice little thing for you to memorize. To half understand what fiat is

US fiat is Federally.Insured.And.Trademarked by the US

bitcoin does not have one central body of power.

i will say however that there are some people that want to sell out so they would be deceptive when the price is high to be able to get out easily. making the person buying in lose out. but the rest of us are normally honest and try to keep the true facts alive and to correct people who are wrong. i feel sorry for your father who could have bought in a couple months earlier or a couple months later at the low price. but the truth is no investment is a perpetual rise, which would never drop. and you as a so called economist should know this.

i might apologise for my open minded, straight talking replies, and the manner to which i correct you. but i prefer to get the truth known before FUD spreads, then to hold back purely to be 'nice'

Never watched it, and it still makes me feel shameful to be an American.

https://d3819ii77zvwic.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/honeybooboo.gif

http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--kqa13lnm--/18jaep346gy2ijpg.jpg

Oh ewwww...


My heartfelt, most humble apologies for bringing Honey Boo Boo to Bitcoin Island.

I've learned my lesson. It won't happen again.


*shivers*

Need another bath

Picture says a 1000 words?
*shivers also*
My heartfelt, most humble apologies...
It's OK we all make mistakes.

By that definition you posted BTC is fiat.  BTC is not convertible to anything.  Fiat means "let it be done".  Means its created from nothing.  USD is created out from debt.  BTC is created when some solves a math problem.  1BTC = 1BTC.  Its not convertible to gold or silver or grains or anything.  The only difference about BTC & USD is that USD is created out thin air by the govt.  BTC is created out of thin air by miners.  The other difference is USD is legal tender and BTC is not.  A point which I've made repeatedly.  The reason why this important is the demand for USD is  a legal requirement to pay taxes.

Honey Boo Boo changed my philosophical outlook on life. I now firmly support forced sterilization for the Deep South.

LOL no doubt!

And again, my apologies to the btc community.

 ;D

My apologies for the photos.
They do get the point across...