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Bitcoin is a speculative investment, and most speculative investments get dumped during major economic crashes. Since bitcoin is so young and hasn't been around any major financial crash (09-13 was a global bull market) it has given some the delusion that it is economic crash resistant, but it likely isn't.

Unless they *agree* to continue using it, which is where its value comes from, which is the point of its existence - to protect from the other currency being devalued to the point of a crash...

We already *agree* that one piece of paper with a 1 on it is worth a dollar and a 20 on it is worth 20. Our agreement to use it at all is the only reason it's exchangeable for goods and services.

The thing you're leaving out is that people dumping investments in a crash is because they only have one option. Nobody can spend foreign currency here (or elsewhere) outside the exchange. I can't take a peso to the laundromat.

The next crash of the dollar will be catastrophic for this country and others still clinging to it as a reserve *because* there is no other option, they don't have a choice and when the Titanic sinks, so do they.

Bitcoin is the alternative...and because it's established itself as a currency with value (i.e. all the people who agree to trade it for goods and services), it's a strong secure buffer to put their money into. Even if fiat decreases value, they'd be more inclined to exchange it for the currency with holding value and rising value...the equivalent of the lifeboat the comes along and saves the ones willing to make the jump off the sinking ship.

Nobody had a choice in 2007-2008 when the US treasury was robbed by the FED and banking cartel and wall street criminals.

A year later, someone provided a choice and 5 more years later, here we are, growing businesses and investors *agreeing* that bitcoin value is worth a ton more than fiat value.


I can easily see a time when bitcoin becomes the world's reserve currency and that would bring back real competition and industry in the world.

Not so soon, the governments are there for a reason

Governments are also there by consent of the people. If they fuck up and crash the economy while people have a choice of currency, the consent will be withdrawn. There's a revolution taking place...each little hub of society is revolting in some form or another...they're not using guns and war, they're using technology and social networking on a global scale and gradually removing their consent to be governed.

It's gonna be a very, very different world 6-10 years from now...

Economic collapse worse than the great depression as many predict. Sure, the most valuable assets will be food, fuel, ammo, and crypto.  ::)

If there is a true economic collapse Bitcoins will mean nothing...

People will switch to the barter/trading system for goods/services.

Food, Shelter, Medicine and Self Protection will be valued the most.

Keep santa safe.

not crypto

ammo yes, lots of ammo

if u don't have guns ur in trouble

Nah, in the dark years to come where we're eating our own faeces and being terrorised by gangs of bodybuilders wearing antlers, the perfect way to relax will be to use up some precious diesel or force grandma to pedal to generator so we can send electronic units of account to each other.

Newbies reading threads like this, please do not get sucked into the hype. This is currently a very expensive game and you will have the chips stacked against you. Do your due diligence, so you don't look silly starting threads like this in the future which you will be forced to do once you get sucked in. The $ is the ultimate end goal for all these salesmen. Be VERY VERY careful.

Says the person who registered two weeks ago...

You guys think ammo will help you when war breaks out? running shoes would serve you better.

Crypto currencies may be useful. we cant know for now. there will be demand for a globally backed currency in such a situation. If the internet survives, bitcoin will survive.

In that situation I know I'd trade fuel and fuel for crypto. Who can resist what amounts to a number in your virtual wallet? Hell I'd jack off all over the computer screen in glee. What riches.
You can take your running shoes I'll take the ammo.

Peter Schiff is a goldbug who's been singing that same song for decades. He may eventually be right about the economy, but his timing is off. He is trying to sell gold. He's a Jew gold salesman. I generally like him and agree with much of what he says, but he's a freakin salesman.

Some of us 'newbies' are not in for the speculation. It is only if you do not truly understand what Bitcoin is, that you might tempted to think it's nothing but a game, a scam or a ponzi whatever however you want to call it. Bitcoin CAN be used to speculate, to scam or for a ponzi scheme, just like paper fiat money. You don't warn people not to get into the 'hype' that is fiat do you?

Just because someone is an author and a CEO does NOT mean he knows what he is talking about. They have been expecting inflation to go through the roof ever since QE started. The US inflation is around 2.5% annual and shows no sign of going up any time soon. Peter Schiff may be a smart guy but he is clearly wrong. Yes, the US economy will hit a rough patch here and there. Economy goes through  cycles, up and down, repeat, rinse and cycle again. So, I guess he will be right half the time, like anyone else.

This is going to be fun. OK help me TRULY understand Bitcoin. Sell it to me.

By the way how much did you pay for it(just curious), but you don't have to divulge this part. I understand.

Sure these usurpers are there by consent of some people. Sure as hell not my consent. They are where they are mostly because people don't care enough to send usurpers where they belong. How do you express dissent in a so called "modern democracy"?

So you think when the dollar loses it's status as reserve currency and nations everywhere are dumping them, this will be a signal for everyone holding Bitcoin to flee into USD?

I very much respect Peter Schiff, but I think he underestimates the power of the government to spin markets. They will do *anything* to prevent a crash. That may include "socializing" the economy step by step, turning it into a pure command economy in the course of the next 10 years or so. Eventually, the West will go the way of Argentina and Venezuela, but this will take a while. The US still has the war machine to prevent anyone from undermining the USD.

To illustrate that, here is a Bloomberg quote about the easing of sanctions against Iran as a response to their agreement to stop developing nukes:

Obviously the fuss about Iranian nukes was mostly about that: Iran cannot trade oil for gold. They must trade it for USD like everyone else. Or else.

We even have to assume that the US will eventually lash out against China and even Russia with nukes when things get ugly and they lose their Dollar empire.

Just keep in perspective what each site is selling.

Schiff is selling gold.

Bloomberg, Business Insider, Motley Fool, etc. are selling stocks and funds.

Most of the other media is selling socialism.

First and foremost, what is your current understanding of bitcoin and how technically proficient are you? I recently explained bitcoin to my 82 year old grandmother using the email analogy and she immediately gets it, "you know, like how we were exchanging letters before and now we're exchanging emails?". Not only she gets it, but she can even see how any newfangled thing can be speculated, it's just human greed, and like any good responsible grandmother, told me to "not speculate and better save up on those bitcoins". So to me Bitcoin is never a gamble and I'm not in it to profit, well, not in the way of speculating at least, but a transition to cryptocurrency which, like it or not, is here to stay. Plus I never paid a single cent directly to acquire my bitcoins.

US economy goes down then it will take all other countries economy down too. Then we can go back to killing each other over food.

When I was in the jungle of Bolivia, the only two currencies were alcohol and coca leaves. But I'm guessing that since we don't have coca leaves here in America, then the two currencies (in the event of an economic meltdown) would be alcohol and pot. I should start stocking up now.

Actually it'd be alcohol and cigarettes over pot. More smokers in the usa than stoners  8)

Inflation is here : increase of the money supply, stock market and it is exported

Peter Schiff predicted the dotcom bubble in 2000 and the real estate bubble, he was one of the only one; he was very precise and his predictions were correct
He is not predicting a crisis, he is saying the crisis never ended and the gov/FED didn't let the crisis to happen which would have been better than what we will face

Do you think the FED can print without any negative consequences or unwind QE without any negative consequences?
Do you think the gov liabilities are sustainable??


He is saying that

Not any more I think.  But I would definitely add brass and lead to the list of worst-case currencies.

These things are matters of degree.  An economic downturn is unlikely to result is social disintegration, in and of itself.  A collapse of the USD, for example, would not be an apocalyptic scenario in practice.  Surely an apocalyptic scenario might precipitate a collapse of the USD, but the converse does not seem to be highly probable.

A crash may be planned.  That is one of the most direct means by which one can gain control of the material wealth of a society when one has control of the monetary system:  Successive planned cycles of inflation and deflation.  Recently the Fed board have been making noises about taking action against asset bubbles.  This may be telegraphing their intention to crash the stock market.  

I speak hypothetically and subjunctively.  I do not claim this is a current plan.  I merely observe that it might be.

The crash is so over-due it's really hard to tell how much longer it can be delayed:
4 weeks
or
7 more years?
Both are possible...

Stopped reading right there. The guy is an idiot (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5qdkPlwvrc), has been predicting imminent economic doom for what seems like forever. He has been featured from schizophrenics like Alex Jones and that's not even the worst part. Worse he's uphold as some sort of guru from Libertarian armchair economist types, an insufferable mixture.

He's been right about as many times as a broken clock is right twice a day. The crisis was no surprise in serious economic circles there are plenty of saner individuals who actually had valid explanations for the thing.

cannot agree more

Bitcoin may actually prevent the kind of stone age collapse to which you refer.  If it does not, then that will be because the event precipitating the collapse eviscerated the networks, as e.g. an X-class solar flare.

Actually, I recant...I forgot recreational use was legalized so yeah, stoners definitely coming out on top  ;D

IT IS TIME TO BUY BITCOIN, PRICES MAY EVEN GO LOWER. IT ALL DEPENDS ON THE TIME FRAME OF THE PRICE MANIPULATORS.

2.5% annual inflation is from the actual method of calculation...  Dont get fooled by those flalse number..  Lookup inflation as it was calculated in the 1980's

You'll be surprised that inflation is really high, and actual.. just hidden and tricked !

It isn't even hidden that well and it is going to be so high that even the tricked official numbers will get pretty high in the coming year, Yellen is not going to do the right thing, she is going to do what she believes in and what she said she would if it gets tough : more QE

In a true zombie apocalypse scenario I would go for vodka and fuel. As someone who's seen the collapse of the USSR, vodka is the way to go. Maybe whiskey, to account for local traditions :) Guns are only required for those who already have lots of whiskey and fuel, to protect those - or if you are planning to go on the offensive.

Seems like those predicting the collapse of anything, are pretty much always wrong.

As I recall, Obama was supposed to "destroy america" in his first term.  When he didn't he surely was "free to destroy america" in his second term because of structural changes in govt.

He didn't.

I told everyone before he got elected that we'd be alive and well after both terms. 

Life goes on.  People are crazy.

-B-

It can collapse with riots and martial law without having a total collapse of the society


In the 50's the average american had a life approximatively twice better than now if you disregard technology : 2cars, few loans, owning house, usually the man was working and paying for college wasn't a big deal

There will be laws for this in the future obviously

Well if the economy is going to collapse throwing people under the bus while getting your assets out and claiming the system is secure in order to get out safely makes the most sense.

Watched a great documentary a month or so back called Inside Job - check that out, particularly if you're in the US. There are a number of places online you can watch it free.

It was an eye opener for sure to see the whole issue dissected so closely...since we can't line them all up on wall street and just assassinate them, the next best thing is to bankrupt them and force the value of what they covet to zero.

Bitcoin is a huge weapon to make it happen.

Property and Gold are not "going to zero", so many/most wealthy people will survive pretty well.
Sadly, many innocent people will be hurt badly when the economy goes down.

Absolutely

US inflation is a disaster waiting to happen. Just like the housing bubble took a while before it hit, inflation will hit. It's not even a question if it will hit, the real question is when will it hit?

No matter what you do to prepare, make sure you have something to fall back on when dollars and other fiat are worthless. Food, shelter, farmland, diesel, weapons, tobacco, liquor, coffee, tea, chocolate, sugar, gold, silver, bitcoin are all better investments than dollars.

It is nice to see that most of the community is aware of what is going to hit us

I feel for all the nice people that are not going to be prepared at all, I hope they won't draw the wrong conclusions
Those who predict what will happen say it is because the state is rigging the economy, when the crash will happen the state will say we need more state bc that is always its only response to everything : control