Bitcoin Forum

EDIT: I am leaving the content of this intact for historical recorcd, but in the end. The was the events.
A small issue with one of the many methods of withdraw that TradeHill uses went south. During a previous discussion and resolution to a problem, I was told that public notice of problems with withdraw or deposit methods would be put up in place at the first sign of issue. TradeHill did that, but however a hickup in the system affect my withdraw on a different method.
HOWEVER. After hearing from some other members as the reason for my withdraw as well as responsability, the withdraw was reversed and sucessfuly withdrawn via Yankee and his BitInstant. As if this moment, I would like to point out that TradeHill is the ONLY exchange to not put its customers in the seat of proving fault and looking into the matter on their own. Noy


Hey Jared!
Remember all the problems you had about not telling people until it was to late that certain withdraw methods were broken? We had a bunch of emails about it? Well guess what? My Paxum didnt come in for the second day.

No refund yet...

I've been waiting over a week for my check withdrawl. No email response, and afaik check still hasn't even been written.

Im going to make sure this is handled. I dont care about not being able to cash out. I care that I wasnt not notified until after I made the request and inquired as to where it was that the method I had chose was currently unavailable and no offer to cancel it.

Why do the exchanges keep using Paxum given the problems they have with keeping their Paxum accounts funded.  They really don't seem to research this stuff very well before they add new deposit and withdrawal methods.

If you start looking for non reversible methods you'll find that Paxum is one of very few.
Checks / ACH can be reversed. Money orders / Cashier's checks can be faked and even if the bank discovers it 2 weeks later they will pull the funds out of your account. I don't have to go in to Paypal. The list goes on. The only thing non reversible (for the most part) in traditional banking is wire transfers and of course cash deposits. Banks hate both of these.

This is the big reason we liked Dwolla, it was simple, cheap, fast and non reversible. When it turned out to actually be reversible despite claims and we were losing a lot more than the commissions we generate we had to shut it off.


In regards to not giving prior notice that we were suspending withdrawals by check: we weren't given any notice by our bank that it was getting cut off. We're in the process of bringing it back as soon as possible and anticipate shipping checks in a few days.

Paxum deposits not getting credited in a timely matter is completely internal. Someone most likely skipped over your transaction and I will look in to this and get an answer.

Jered

STILL NOTHING

Shakaru I am with you.  I don't get it.  Here is my thread:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=57295.0 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=57295.0)

Why can Jered answer you on this thread but you can't get any kind of response from the company?  You know, it's not rocket science to answer your customers.  It's just not that hard.  We are not talking about a company with millions upon millions of customers.  Why not answer e-mails within the day they are sent?  Or gosh, so a lot of stuff is broken at Tradehill and people are needed elsewhere.  But you can't get somebody to clear your backlog of emails the next day?

So, Jered- why doesn't Tradehill answer e-mails?  Does it seem that your priorities are out of line if you spend time answering public forum threads but you don't FIX what is obviously broken?

I have over $600 in la-la land (also known as my Tradehill account) and I have bills to pay for my business.  Things happen; I get that.  What I don't get is why Tradehill will not answer me.  I don't get why they can't mail checks like they say they will.  And I don't get why they have this arrogant attitude when they are stalling me.

It seems that they might be in a bit of a financial bind and they are using customer money for their "float".

Still nothing. Thanks for all the broken promises.

Its far from the first time. The first FEW times I let it slide. Last time I had to call out TradeHill publically on the mess and behold, addressed it correctly then. Yet, next transation, same crap, worse problems. What I dont understand is that you guys can bite 1% on my coins you have hostage and have BitInstnant compleate it. Or you could refund my withdraw. Or you can reply? Or something more than the "We screwed up again." email.

Shakaru,

Obviously your personal financial situation requires you to have your money instantly. If you werent going thru this dire need for the funds, you may have given TradeHill some more slack.

You cannot count 'days' rather you must count 'business days' when banks and companies are open. You made this post on a Friday, and now its Monday morning in California.

TradeHill made an announcement last week that their accounts were frozen and working to get new and backups set up. For a small start-up that takes 100% of their man power. Having known that, you need to connect the dots here. Paxum clearly advertises on their site that wires take 3 days to receive and 3-4 days to process. If this was MtGox, you wouldnt get your money for weeks history has shown. At least Jered has responded to a few of your emails!

I usually don't like to get involved, but Im familiar with your situation and working to help you as best I can.

Let's resolve this first, you and I via PM. Once you have your money you can rant and rave to TradeHill all you want, but this post wont change much.

-Charlie

I dont want to rant and rave. I just want the practice of notifying only after inquiry, of when a method is unavailable.. Other, I actually rant and rave about the service. I like how atleast TradeHill responds and takes action. I like how when there was the previous issue, a pulbic announcement was made once the issue is resolved.
Also, you can see that evern with this mess, I still use tradehill for my wallet.
Also, Yankee, thank you for the help. ALL OF IT!: )

No problem! This is why we have a community, so we can help each other with the good and bad.

Jered just cancelled your request for withdrawal. Send me a PM and we can arrange and instant and free payout for you.

Charlie

I noticed and thank you both. Pulling out btc to mtgox to mtgoxusd and then you you. Thank you again

Thanks Shakaru and Yankee, there is no reason this should have taken so long to resolve and it rests completely on us. I'm glad we got it sorted out. Thanks for using TradeHill and the good words.

I also appreciate the patience everyone gives us when dealing with the banking issues. When they decide to close an account not only do they close it without warning it's often without an explanation which is extremely frustrating.

Jered

"TradeHill made an announcement last week that their accounts were frozen and working to get new and backups set up."

How would the average guy like me know this?  I was not given this information via e-mail.  I didn't see a notice when I logged into Tradehill.  I emailed to ask about it and my emails were never returned- and still have not been.

It was and still is on the first page of General Discussion in these forums.

Yankee that is all good and well, but is that how you would expect your clients to get their information?  An e-mail would have been nice considering the gravity of the situation.  A notice upon signup would have been a good reinforcement- just in case.  But posting the information on a public forum and just expecting everyone with a check withdrawal in progress to go there seems very amateurish.

Still waiting for Jered to answer my e-mail. 

I have check withdrawals going back to the 29th of December and until I came here I had no idea that they were not being processed.  So I guess I am not surprised at the lack of communication from Jered.  That has been the rule at Tradehell.

That sucks you guys have been having problems.

I've written a good number of emails to TradeHill in the past and I've never been disappointed.  Their check to me also arrived very quickly.  It really sucks when your money is tied up because it can be a very helpless feeling, but so far Tradehill has been the most observably reliable exchange in my opinion.  They make me feel too safe when I shouldn't feel that way.  That's really a compliment, but I think a lot of us feel too safe with Bitcoin in general, even though we understand the risks.

Stuff like this is gonna happen, but I'd feel a lot safer with a TradeHill holdup than a Gox holdup, or a holdup on some newer exchange.

I think that is the problem with Tradehill- lack of consistency.  For some people this is just "bitcoin money" like spare change.  But as a business owner I have to look at it this way.  All of the income from my business from the 29th of December to today is being held by them and they still will not answer my emails.  This is money that I would use to pay suppliers and buy more inventory.  

I would like to take this time to thank the staff at Tradehill for coming through in time, and most importantly of all, Yankee of BitInstant. As some of you may know, my heath is crap and while Jared was unaware, the withdraw I had made was intended to cover my cost as I had already payed a good ammount of out pocket so that I can get good care out of a good facility (f*cking US health system). Because of this, it was possible that I would not be able to cover my rent, but make sure thoese who I am responsable for, are taken care of.
I want to say that my tone of actions to Tradehill was stress induced, and I do still support them as my exchange of choice. The bigest reason for this is that no other exchange would take the actions needed to help out its clients. I was a former user of BitBux because of its Conceirge service and while it is not advertised, I do have to say that the level of support and respect I get from TradeHill should be considred as such compared to other exchanges.

Jared, I appologise for my tone and words and still only ask that you notify customers of an issue, and/refund them in the need if a funding option is not available. Im not even asking this to be pickey, but if this is done, you will have everyone coin in your exchange. MtGox acts like a bulley on the playground stealing lunch money because they know that no one will listen. You take responsability in a mannor that I not only respect, but that I will will promote.

If you want a exchange that REALLY listens to its customers. That cares to keep you as a client. That IMHO has repeatly rose up when other exchanges require the user to provide proff than look through its own records (Mtgox.....) Then use TradeHill. Yes, no exchange is withouts its problems, but atleast TradeHill has taken care of every bitcoin and cent with me to satifaction and while with some resistance as is almost required with this economy, has been a literal life saver.

Jared, check you inbo.

Shakaru- how did Charlie at Bitinstant help you?  I only see OKpay and Paxum to withdraw- did you use one of these in conjunction with Bitinstant?

No, we spoke privately and I helped him resolve it.

Feel free to PM me, I can do my best to help you as well

Charlie

Thanks Charlie, I didnt know what to tell him on that one.

That sucks you guys have been having problems.


That said: Don't gamble with money you can't afford to lose.

Not gambling when its a payment is it?

+ 1 to that...

to another point.. i made a request for check since dec 30th - hopefully i'll somehow get to see the check next week sometime... mining bitcoin may not be my main income but having that earned money is definitely nice since it is earned...

I went with tradehill because i can get a check from them and i hope that everything will be resolved - it's already going through hoops to get mtgox to bitinstant to trade hill... i dont want to get like 10% taken out of the money i mined since it's hard earned cash... not to mention having your bank info verified, etcetc... it's a hassle and i'm not that comfortable giving out those info...

Three days ago I tried to withdraw my funds--around $1100 US--to OKPAY.  They have neither moved the funds, nor do they answer email. Tell me again why I'm not supposed to feel ripped here?

When our bank account was closed we were forced to wait for a check to arrive in the mail. We then need to deposit that check and when it clears send cash to OKpay. A significant portion has cleared and we'll begin sending the checks / okpay out soon. Paxum may take slightly longer due to it taking up to a week for them to credit our wire depending on the time it gets sent. The bottle neck in all of this is the traditional financial institutions. We're looking for alternatives around this.

Jered

Still: at the very least you should answer emails on Tradehill.  To have to come here and wonder where my money is is not correct.  I've been to other sites to notify people that this is happening, but I'm not an official representative of TradeHill and this is very discouraging.

First of all, I really dont want to be rude. But you guys have a blog, and you could have at least explained that issue.(Paxum & OKPay)
However you put up a blog post explaining your banking difficulties and empowering people to ask questions via email - yet you dont seem to answer them. Well, no wonder people feel ripped.

We should have gone in to detail about Paxum / OKpay. We didn't expect them to be a problem but the volume exceeded our expectations. In regards to answering emails we get to them as fast as possible but when there is a problem we receive hundreds or more daily. We're working through the backlog currently and will be caught up soon.

I'll make sure to post on the blog more frequently in the future and as quickly as possible when something comes up.

Jered

How about updating the blog now Jered? I mean, you are able to post here so why not on the TH blog? You obviously have the motor skills to operate a keyboard so what letting you? Maybe that will slow down the stream of emails you are getting.

Jeez, relax.

There's obviously a reason he hasn't updated the blog yet, possibly because he's working on a resolution as we speak.

We're all start-ups here, and far from perfect.

-C

From someone who has the sentence "It's Your Money! Why Wait?" in his signature I would have expected some more empathy in the current situation.

Do you have any money currently being held by TradeHill?

Do you have any money current being held by us?

I'm not sure why you expect empathy from me. Shakaru had an emergency that required his funds from TradeHill as soon as possible, having been told about this emergency I did everything I could to resolve this problem.

if you have a similar issue or emergency, I'd be happy to help you as to the best of my ability, but to bash on Jered for not updating the blog this second...Im not sure why empathy is required.  

Forgive me haste, I just dont like trolling

Admittedly I sounded like a dick when making that post towards Jered but nothing I have stated there is untrue. Jered does seem to have the time to inform people here on the forums individually but yet cant find the time to release a statement on the TH blog. Yes, everyone is human and far from perfect but its now almost at the point where its getting ridiculous and there is nothing wrong with making my feelings about that public. Yes, I am pissed off, for a good reason.

The trouble this has caused me so far is that I am late on a few bills which had to be payed and that I had to borrow money from some friends to be able to do grocery shopping. Yes, its not as bad as having to pay medical bills for cancertreatment but it still makes a big impact on my life. I have around 3000$ stuck saying in Processing since the 2nd of Januari. I have contacted you by PM a few days ago to ask if you could help me out but havent received a response yet.

Your right.


What? When? I never got a PM from you.

EDIT: Just checked again, sorry about that bud I was in China for a week so some things I may have missed. Responding now..

No change at all on the Tradehill forum.  Now going on seven days where my money has not been returned to me.  I've notified other forums that use bitcoins of this.  Interesting that TradeHill doesn't seem to have a problem with funds going *in*. 

Whats the issue?

Jered,

My Paxum withdrawals are waiting from Jan 9 and Jan 11. When withdrawing it was told that it will take 24 hours.

My ticket #1500 is "awaiting assignment" since Jan 13.

I understand there can be different kind of issues with Paxum etc. I just need to be aware how much it can take when doing a withdrawal. Whenever it is 1 day, 1 week, or 1 month, all of us would just like to know beforehand. We'd just like to be always aware of any ongoing issues.

I'm very disappointed.

My wiretransfer is still stuck saying 'Processing'.



I guess that announcement was just rubbish then, or not Jered?

The issue is I want my money back, and they won't give it back.  We get nice excuses, but I personally feel ripped off.  A lot of us don't want to say that, hoping beyond hope that it will be returned if we 'play nice' but that is total BS.  It's been a week, I've requested my funds be sent to OKPAY, and they don't do it.  They don't answer email.  We get this friendly spokesman on here, but I don't want nice words, I want my money released.

duckfeet: exactly!

Jered: Why do you only give money back to cancerpatients and not to us? Why are you not telling us what is going on? You know what were all thinking: "Is Jered running with our cash?". I dont mind delays but I hate being kept in the dark.

My check is still "In Processing" since december 30th. First they say will be sent the 9th or 10th. Then it's the 12th or 13th. Then they say it's been sent as of the 17th and we should recieve them "at the end of the week" which is right now, but as far as I know the check still hasn't even been written let alone mailed and I certainly wouldn't be recieving it now.

Trade Hill, I understand things like this will happen. I'm not desperate for the money you're holding, but no one likes their money in limbo. My biggest issue is that you keep saying again and again that it will go out on a certain date but it never does. I have zero faith in any date you give from this point on. They are meaningless words. I would have been much happier if you said either you do not have an estimated date, or a date much longer than expected to give you a cushion. But telling me "just a few more days" for weeks is very unprofessional.

He has stopped answering my emails.  Maybe this is all a scam to buy him time?

Since Jered has stopped communicating has anyone considered using the white pages to contact some of his family in California?  This might be the best way to get him to engage. 

What a pathetic excuse for a human being.

It's the weekend, we shouldn't expect a response until monday afternoon California time. We don't need to be harassing the mans family.

This is my livelihood.  My gemstone and jewelry sales are how I pay for living expenses.  To have my cash tied up for over three weeks with no reasonable explanation is not acceptable.  Jered posts here on the forum so why can't he answer my questions?  If he has time to participate in conversations here he also has time to answer his customers.  Why has he ignored my emails? 

It may be that calls to his family are the only way to get to him.

I didn't want to post right away, cuz I was pissed, but I finally got my money returned, thru OKPAY.  So it wasn't total rogue, just a terrible inconvenience.  And OKPAY was just about as bad, in the amount--and  way--they requested 'verification' of who I was.  They kept wanting me to verify this, then verify 'that' and god help me if they ever go bad, as they have enough information on me to steal my id without breaking a sweat...why they needed pictures is beyond me.  And I still blame it all on TradeHill, who during all this, wouldn't send us checks anymore, and OKPAY and PAXUM were it...

BTC were just a currency to me and many others who are forced to use the underground economy to get the medicines we desperately need to function.  To to the U.S.'s ancient and undefensible insistence upon governmental control of the drugs we use, we have to go outlaw.  But most transferable currencies are traceable.  BTC are not, or not 'easily' anyway.  But still, TradeHill had a meltdown which many of us suffered through, but by not mailing us our withdrawal amounts, it defeated our desperate need for anonymity just to get our money back.

In any case, I got mine finally, notified my friends on other sites how to get their money, in exchange for way too much info to another flybynight outfit...but anyway, hope everybody else finally got theirs, and didn't loose too much in the process...