Bitcoin Forum

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I saw at Zero Hedge today that apparently some gold dealers will not accept tumbled nor shared BTC.

I do understand that people have their reasons for making their BTC a little harder to track.

But, the gold dealers still have to ship their coins...  So, what's the problem?  This may be a very n00b question, but I always thought a Bitcoin was a Bitcoin.

Are you going to provide a link?

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http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-04-14/priceless

Look for comments by "DoChenRollingBearing" (who?) and "seek".  I am kind of surprised not to have run into seek over here.

It looks like goldsilverbitcoin.com is simply trying to comply with AML/KYC. I don't see any big deal. Here is the actual link: https://www.goldsilverbitcoin.com/anti-money-laundering-policy/

Some piece of information is missing here.  How do they discern a "tumbled" bitcoin, from a "shared bitcoin," from a plain old bitcoin?  They are all the same thing.  If you trace the taint in any bitcoin you hold, it will link back to tons and tons and tons of addresses, some of which that were under your control and some of which that were not.  

Perhaps they can't discern that and are simply giving lip-service to regulators, in essence saying to the public, please do not spend "tumbled" coins here, but if you do, we can't stop you.

How exactly they determine they have been tumbled?

Having your address in a tx with like 50 different recipients might give it away. Although honestly, I don't see how it really has to do with AML/KYC procedures given that even with standard txs no one really knows where its coming from and who its going to anyway.

then you just go through another hop with normal transaction
I find it really impractical to implement.

Interesting, wonder if they would reject an order.

They probably would, since they do have a name for themselves, which anyone can see through.

Well i dont know how they can distinguish tumbled btc from plane btc. But soon they will still recieve some that has been mixed

They use Bitpay so unless Bitpay checks transactions and rejects them this idea of "rejecting mixed coins" is total bullshit.

And if Bitpay has mode where they do this for certain customers then Bitpay will have hell to pay.

Amusing.

No matter what they accept or not, basically their fine print says "We own your ass and you can't actually buy gold from us, you just borrow it on behalf of the government. Be prepared to be goxxed by the government sooner or later, and of course we proactively hand all your data over to them, too". Today's KYC/AML would have been a wet dream for Dictator Roosevelt in 1933. Too bad the terrorist scarecrow had not been invented at the time but the Nazi phantom menace did the trick.  :D

Anyone who buys from a place like that needs to have his head investigated.

If you really believe gold is better than coins, then sell your coins to a local dealer for cash and then travel to Canada or Germany where you can buy $/EUR 10K worth of rare metals with cash, without showing ID.

The only purpose of gold is, to convey value across very bad times. This won't work if "they" can simply go through a list of customer's addresses, visit each one, and offer each a choice between 10 years in prison or handing over the gold for a handful of dollars (like in 1933).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_6102

Btw. does anyone know if cash purchases are possible at gem/coin shows in the USA?

Cheers

Yeah, I think such companies should be boycotted. The whole money laundering concept stands on highly questionable legal ground, as it is merely an auxiliary measure which does not target the actual crime but only possible secondary outcomes from it. As such it is very likely to do more harm to the non-criminal general public than having positive impact on crime. In addition such kind of laws are very likely to be abused.

Money has to flow freely. Crime will happen as long there is mankind, but that's not the fault of money as a mere token of wealth.

I believe this is a non issue, if they are using bitpay there really is no way they are checking this.

was that the order that killed the jedi

almost https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Jedi_Purge#Order_66 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Jedi_Purge#Order_66)  ;D

Paid for my order with well mixed coins.  Got my order (after a long wait).  Report is total bullshit.

But the guy who runs goldsilverbitcoin does seem to take a very long time to fill his orders.  

I recommend other more reputable dealers if you want your metal in a more reasonable amount of time.

There is no way to determine if a bitcoin has been 'laundered' or not.  I should know, as I own BitLaunder.com :-)

That would be just silly. After some time (just like with fiat) everyone would have part of BTC related to this crime or that. If i have 100 BTC and i send 1 BTC to someone, i'd like to see someone proving that exactly THAT 1 BTC is part of some money laundering, and not one of other 99 BTC.
BTC is just nowrking THAT way...

I'm not going to accept blue bitcoins. No way, no how.

I do not like pink bitcoins.  Too frilly.  Won't accept them.

Easy to joke about this, but someone is going to be very angry when they try to buy some gold with BTC and they demand ID and proof of origin of the BTC before they'll either return the BTC or deliver any gold.

One way or another all coins will have been tumbled in the future if people actually continue to use bitcoin for transactions.

What then?

Exactly! More BTC is used, more coins get mixed. No freakin way this can survive long term IF it's even happening right now (which i doubt). It's just not possible.

I'm sure they'll be about as happy when I demand proof of color. Makes as much sense, and it's entirely the merchant's fault. They're not going to be in business long if they try to enforce that policy.

I looked through the document/AML policy (it seemed much to detailed to be a customer facing policy) and did not see anything about tumbled coins.

It did say that it would not accept any transactions in excess of $10k in one day from one customer and that it would collect lots of personal information from you.