Bitcoin Forum

Are we done developing better asics? I havent heard any new news of upgrades... Are we about done? Have we decided we cant fit any more hashing power into such as small chip and it be power effective? Or have I just not been paying attention? Also, if there is a new wave coming out, what are the specs going to be (TH/s, Power consumption, etc.)?

They just came out with 1-3TH/s ASIC so it might take sometime until they deliver it all and come out with 4-10 TH/s asic :)

When will they ever run out of things to upgrade xD?!?!

yes. soon knc will be setting up their own mining farm.

knc already has a private mining farm.

As to the ASIC's Spondoolies-Tech has a 5.4 TH machine in the works due to be ready to ship in August of this year. They also have said they are working on their third generation miner that would have so much TH that other miners will be obsolete.

Close you eyes. And imagine a 5.4 TH/s miner. 18 months ago. *Mind explodes*

If I could have convinced my parents back then that Bitcoin was a great investment, I would just buy the bitcoins instead of the miners. Today I'd probably own a huge mining farm.

50 T/H worth of mining power will get you about 3 bitcoins per month in January 2015.  Think about that.  We're talking at least tens of T/H early next year and hundreds of T/H later on in 2015.  This should not be too much of a surprise since just last year a 5 G/H Jalapeno was actually worth something in the beginning of 2013.


By the way, a 5.4 T/H miner delivered in August will only get you back about 6 btcs.

...and 50T/H will need about 50KW of electric power ...at current efficiency of 1W/1GH...and will cost you ...@$0.10/KWh * 720 * 50 = #3600 ... ???

BTC @ $1200 is about breakeven ...Overhead...hosting etc...is extra... ::)

Hard to believe that mining will be the same by the end of 2014...

I'm actually getting 16.2 TH

with the large GH farms/neptunes and other stuff coming out ..ie probably all the same week at this point...

just could not justify 21k for a 16.2th unit (which is spoonigneles or whatever it is called)

it is gonna get really really ugly chasing the GH i need to mine ..ghost this summer imho

me GH wise I'm sitting on the fence

(no need to throw rocks i did my 'stupid' for the year and got a Titan ....sigh)

but its like a dog chasing a car...assuming i catch it...the car will just drag me down the road anyway

(i know my analogies suck..but getting too too hard to keep up with the big boys and GH arms race)

so we also serve who sit on the fence (gh wise) and scratch head//////?????

Searing

Good luck...

Do you have spare 16-18-20KW electric power available ...like 160-200Amps 110V...

Or $1200 per month for electric bill ...or leasing fees...?

It is NOT so simple, kid... I wish too... ;)

About how many months between wave releases of new asics is it?

I'm assuming that one of these will happen:  1. much more efficient ASIC's are created   2. price of btc keeps mining reasonable   3. difficulty increase rate will drop

If he ordered 3 x SP30 Yukons, which I think he did, then he would only need about 7.5 kW.

It's hosted in their facility. 7.5 kW is not much.

Try 1200 per 3 months.

The thing is, they're rapidly approaching the efficiency barrier if they haven't already hit it. There are physical limits to what can be done with the chips. Once the limit is reached it becomes how much you can cram into a package without melting itself into a pile of slag.

NO ...you try $1200 PER UNIT per 3 months...you are buying 3 SP30 bundle ...right... = $1200 per month...out of your mom's pocket...kid... ;D

It's alright. It's more than you ever made working at Mcdonalds  ;D

Toward the end of last year Cointerra's Terraminer IV caught my eye when they promised 2 T/H for $6,000.  At the time, only the May batch was available since Jan, Feb, Mar, and Apr batches were already sold out.  I was waiting until I saved up enough money to get it but then it sold out.  I knew getting the June batch would be too late so I bought coins instead.  While I was holding on coins, I found out about Bitmain's Antminer S1's for the first time.  The people who bought these machines already made their ROI by March, before Cointerra even delivered their 3rd and 4th batches.  I traded my coins for Antminers in the middle of March and am in the process of at least trying to make my ROI back.  The moral of this story is that even though pre-orders sometime seem like a good deal, there is no predicting what other miners may come out before the pre-orders are released.  I am glad that I was not able to order the May batch of Cointerra's machine since it will not even come close to getting the ROI back at the price of $6,000 and I would still be waiting to mine instead of being able to mine with the Antminers right now.

I think 10T machine will coom soon

We should prepare for it

I got the impression that so far most of the ASIC advances have been from moving to more advanced production methods, from 65/55nm chips down to 28nm which seems to be the current generation. The actual design of a SHA256 hashing ASIC is pretty simple so there isnt much room for optimisation there, the next generation of ASIC chips may be the last to offer any significant improvement in TH/kW and initial cost per TH. Of course then it comes down to whoever can keep their power/cooling/maintenance cost the lowest which favours the datacentres and centralisation of hashpower which noone wants. Although there might then be potential for someone to produce a USB type miner/hardware wallet combo for bitcoin users to run at home - generates income and keeps your btc secure whilst decentralising the network :)

Anyway, my point being that after this summer's new ASIC chips are released and shipped we might see the hashrate level off and track the btc/USD price, at least until 12nm or whatever ASIC fabs become available.

there's multiple ways for people to improve the asics.   one way is to get to smaller geometry (65nm to 40nm to 28nm, to 20nm to 16nm etc)...   another way is to improve the circuit or architecture...  another way is to optimise the design (using custom cells, or even going full-custom), which allows you to use smaller, lower power transistors.   it may be a simple circuit but there's still ways to optimise it and for companies to show their innovation and engineering prowess.  sometimes they optimise around delivery date, sometimes they optimise for density, or for power consumption... there's lots of dynamics at work and opportunities for creativity.

In war it's a fatal mistake to assume that you are a lot smarter than your enemies. History has proven this over and over.

The commercial world is exactly the same, and arrogance usually gets rewarded with failure and defeat. If the Israelis think they're the only people around that can design efficient asics, then they're in for a rather rude awakening.

5.4 T/H at the end of August will not mean sh*t.  It will only generate about 7 bitcoins before becoming obsolete... and how many bitcoins did it take to buy the machine?

most reliable profit calculator I've found https://cex.io/calc

well mining 'legal' under IRS rules last year and this year with deductions of 50% OFF  full equip costs 1st year rest in 5 years this was 2013 (and likely to pass again 2014 in congress i heard on the news today) 2014.....with the equip last year and in the pipe this year...it will work out ..at least for what I've done so far (I like to mine)

with electricity  and depreciation of tax burden by use of equip purchase  up to 100% for 5 years (i assume bitcoin will last that long as well as I hold and hope btc price per coin goes way up!) *heh* * my CPA says "I'm really just a Farmer" lol*

If I can  basically keep 6 coin out of every 10 coin I make. if i can run the equip out to the 100% depreciation still a pretty good deal at 50% off the 1st year
even if i find that ambitious in the long run...mining wise...i pay some to the IRS after equip is deducted but pay 2.3x as much in elec so not a big deal
the taxes paid for equipment  for the depreciation stuff imho

how the guidelines are set up as of last year and this year ...i expect it in USA taxes to change in 2016 but will play this game 'legal' as long as possible

only real regret in my area no one else to bitcoin mine co-op with..this would be a lot more fun with a group of guys in the biz together...would be a hoot!

Searing

there will always be faster hardware, I take the middle road and go from there.

 ;D

It's actually $5,350 for one 5.4 TH miner. It can actually go up to 6.5 TH, but 5.4 is the guaranteed Hash rate. I'm buying 4 of them which is over 20 Th. The hash rate does not increase 50% every month. It barely jumps 2 billion ever month. You can say what you want, but i'm the big miner here. You're the guy with the antminers. I'm here with the huge ass money generators. I should return over >50 BTC. I'm going to keep 50% and spend the other 50% to buy more miners. Only 11 bitcoins to buy the miners...

At the time of the original post, the price of bitcoin was about $450.  For what you would pay to pre-order the spondoolies, you can just buy 47.5 bitcoins outright; without paying additional costs for the huge electric bill.  Have fun with your huge ass heat and noise generators.

To get back on the original point of this post, please have a look and good read at this article:

http://www.extremetech.com/computing/178529-this-is-what-the-death-of-moores-law-looks-like-euv-paused-indefinitely-450mm-wafers-halted-and-no-path-beyond-14nm

It's very interesting to say the least!

yeah you may have a point i'm in the usa mining legally (don't get me started on how that happened but it got the bank and irs off my bank seeing my 'legal' bitcoin tax return for 2013..so i'm taking it as a win..sorry....the zombies got me the rest of you run away


anway I DO have to pay 25% of whatever I mine at the time it hits my block address as income....I can however take off ALL in equip depreciation last year it was 50% this year may be the same...usually 20% for 5 years (hey as long as guidelines stay as they are written)...so SUPPOSEDLY I can get a lot of my equip costs back..but in my unigue case I bought equipment as a hedge at the first of the year due to the fact I make 50 to 75 coins mining and btc tops 1k a btc..i could be in some serious hurt to the tax man

it an't much....but it is a hedge as long as i'm legal and/or until they change the rules back to 20% captial gains on coin only and equip risk is your own....etc

last year anyone will mine at home anyway imho

again my situation is unigue..backed into being legal and it saved my butt...but then again....looks likely i'll pull out of this ok...IF BTC survives as a business for next 3 yrs or so
etc etc...if not i'll just make a bigger splash then you guys when i fall out of orbit (good to have goals)

so it goes..i do know some people that trade gold/silver that mine legal for their other biz reasons etc but there are few of us in usa in this position most are sitting imho
till 2015 when rules hopefully (likely) will be more sensible and then they will 'gasp' announce to the IRS what a good year they had ;) was my plan..alas

remember me when you get past the guard towers and to the trees...i be caught...(damn it)

Searing

Lol..

Hey bitcoin is at a nice 578 price! Probably just going to sell my preorders and buy and sell all day long! Day trade!

Yes that was back in April. It's a month later already almost June. I own lots of ant miners that I leave in a data center in Quincy, Washington for 0.03 Cents a KW. I've profited almost 43 bitcoins within the last month sir.

I'm confused. Only a month ago you had no "big mine" and you're already at 40btc profit?

How exactly did you go from needing parents permission to buying $100k+ worth of hardware?

Edit: After some serious sleuthing it appears we are dealing with a multimillionaire or a chronic bullshitter.




(lol. custom pcbs for 1100 chips)




10 chips is some serious bulk.




Sorry for the off-topic posts but this is just too much fun.

Have your fun Jimmothy. I don't talk real business on the forum. Also you're a stalker!

Somekindabitcoin =      multimillionaire + lives at home with mom  = troll

I stand corrected on one aspect of my earlier posts.  SP10 by Spondoolies seems like a slim margin of profit is possible; since the price of bitcoin now is almost $600.  At this price, it is slightly better to buy the machine + pay for electric bills than to just buy coins outright.  However, upon reading reviews, it sounds like the SP10 is much louder than other miners and some people have buyer's remorse over the noise.

Do you know if this is still the case? and if so how much is the miner again?

SP10 is $2,800 for 1.4 T/H.   According to the cex.io calculator, set at 30% difficulty increase per month, a 1.4 T/H miner will get you about 5 btcs before the electric costs equal the profit made by the machine(if the price of bitcoin goes up, then you can run the machine longer).  Right now, you can just buy 4.8 btcs with $2,800 without paying for the electric bill or dealing with the noise or heat.  So, no, I do not believe it is profitable to buy the miner anymore.  

nothing to write home about, the next few years should be interesting though.

I do hope that mining will still be feasible for me next year.  I would really like to buy a small(tiny) warehouse and stock some miners in it.  I just really like being a part of the mining system.