Bitcoin Forum

Hi guys, suppose i'm a late player into the mining game. I've got a friend with around $30,000 to put into investment, i've got very cheap electric so i'm not fused with energy consumption that much, just wanted some advice on what hardware to go forward with. I see that if i'm heading to mine bitcoins that Antminer S1 are obviously the cheapest gh/s. But take as least 2 months to pay off, would it be more with the difficulty change?

I've also seen that KnC have a titan 300mh/s which sounds good, but i'm not sure about pre orders as wouldn't it become less profitable by the time it arrived here in the UK. The other option is to build a few rigs? any hardware recommendations? any advice would be appreciated :) 

Buy BTC. No doubt about that. I've been mining with ASICS since October (mined with GPUs before) and if I had bought coins instead, I'd would made twice the profit...
And dont take too long cause the price seems to be going up...

Cheers

I would generally agree with this statement. If you're mining then you'll have to cash out to fiat at some point to pay for the electricity which means if the value of BTC goes up you'll have benefited less than you would have if you outright purchased BTC. If the price goes down, you're miners will effectively earn 'less' and you'll still have to convert BTC albeit more and you'll have less BTC holdings. Fundamentally, if you're looking for a profit you'd be better off buying rather than mining unless you're sure that you're getting efficient miners and cheap enough electricity to warrant it.

split it, 70% buy and buy a mini KNC titan :)

Find a casino with a roulette wheel and put your $30,000 on red.  You'll either bust or double your money, and a lot faster than by buying coins or mining.

If you have $30,000 of disposable income then you should invest in Bitcoin when you understand the principals behind why it's revolutionary
If you see it through to the end you're going to get more out of it than any amount of money it's going to be worth in the distant future

If you do this it doesn't matter if you mine or buy the Bitcoins... or in fact work out which one will get you THE most Bitcoins irrespective of what it's going to be worth next week or next year.

If you just want to make a profit in Fiat pure and simple.. Just buy them and sell if and when they go up

No doubt about that.  Buy BTC

Do you want the ultimate answer?

Ok, here it is.

Dunno.

Lotsa folk bought when BTC was at 1500 USD.  They lost their shirts.

Lotsa folk bought when BTC was at 5 USD.  They have, on paper, made a fortune.

So, is buying at 500 USD gonna make you money or loose you money?

Dunno.

Is buying mining hardware gonna make you money or loose you money?

Probably gonna loose you money unless you have really cheep electricity.

Do you think BTC is gonna go up?  Are you willing to gamble that it does?  If so, buy BTC.

Do you have cheap electricity?  Do you think there are going to be no major changes in the mining market over the next half year?  If so, buy hardware.

Otherwise, go to Vegas if you feel risky, buy stock if you feel kinda risky or buy a CD if you want to slowly loose your money to inflation.

I would buy 50 percent coins and preorder two miners from KNC miner...

Neptune third batch at $5500 (sha256)
Mini Titan at $5500 (scrypt)

Put the mini Titan on a scrypt merged multi pool
Put the Neptune in a sha256 multipool

Take the $19k remaining and buy bitcoin.
Take 5 bitcoins and daytrade on cryptsy or mintpal.

Just buy coins. Mining has become so competitive recently that 30k is simply not enough to stay in this game for a long time. BTC was almost $1200 a few months ago and I strongly belive it ll go back to that price and above by the end of this year. So your friend might double his money and more.

However, this is what I would do, so make your own decision.

Neither.

Ask yourself if bitcoin is the currency of the future why is the guy who is selling to you parting with his? Especially for filthy fiat? You will be handing 30k to a miner that conjured units of nothing up from thin air because of an "algo".

The time to buy bitcoin was when the market cap was in the low millions, even at low hundreds of millions. Today fully mined supply puts the value at $10-12billion.

You will sleep better having enjoyed the money on something else. You know like something you may actually need and find enjoyment in. Bitcoin has ruined more lives then it has helped.

Am sure he has mentioned its investment money so i dont see it ideal to enjoy the money on something else. Investment is risk therefore its a risk/reward  question. If it were me, i would have bought Bitcoin as long as the reward is required in the medium to long term because i am optimistic about the BTC at least testing its previous high before a potential decline or a further surge. I have done trading in the forex market and that is one rule that is 90% likely to be obeyed, a high must be tested again before further decline. I have not really studied much about mining but i think when you buy mining equipment you will know the returns and the timeframe therefore it is rather boring for me to invest in mining and also mining hardware has a lifetime. If you check on ebay, the amount of mining equipment up for sale is just too much and it wont cope with the demands nowadays, which is why i would buy bitcoins.

Don't think you have to go all in on one thing only.

My advice would be to spread it around a bit - sure if you want to do some mining yourself go for it.

But also use some to just buy coins directly (many people who have invested big time in mining had wished they had just bought coins instead). If BTC goes back to 1000 you'll sure wish you had some coins on hand instead of fighting an ever increasing mining difficulty.

You could also look into cloud mining which means you don't have to worry about maintaining the miner or electricity costs at all and can begin mining immediately. My personal favorite is PB Mining (http://pbmining.com?ref=bitcoinfuture)  (where it is currently 0.58 BTC for 100 GH/s) but never invest more than you can afford to lose in cloud mining, as the operation may fall through. Never invest more than you can afford in anything Bitcoin related, good luck to you sir ;)

Also, yes pre orders have ruined many people, just do a bit of poking around the forums where people have waited 12 months for BFL ASICs and would have been much better off just holding onto their coins instead. Like 1000% better off.

If I had $30K myself right now, I'd buy BTC directly and hold until the next bubble. Pre-ordering a mining rig is a fool's game, been there and done that and lost my shirt. Just buy BTC now and hold. You can thank me later.

I think that if you're going to buy a SHA ASIC, now is the time to do it when older units are coming out on ebay.  You can have less $ invested and still hash a lot.

I am currenly LOLLING at all the GPUs being sold in bulk on ebay, by people who bought them at elevated prices after Litecoin surged its price.

Now it is a buyers market.  I GPU mine certain Scrypt-N coins, and I only buy GPUs for low low bargain basement discount prices, so if and when I decide to sell my stuff, I have a good chance of recovering most or all of my cash invested in GPUs.  For a few months there, it bothered me to not be adding to my GPU farm, but the high prices of GPUs stopped me, and now I am glad I waited.

Over at the Litecoin forums.org, there's this one dickwad named Jrose120 who, although very knowledgeable about computers, dove in too hard and too fast.  He had the garage in his rented house totally rewired to handle lots of GPUs, he bought several hundred GPUs when the prices were at their highest, built himself a hash farm running 70-90 Mhash, then pretty much dropped off the LTC forums and has been selling off his GPUs, at least some of them, on ebay.

And as if that isn't enough, he did it all on his credit cards and $50,000 from a relative, so he has that pressure on him too.

I don't understand why he pussed out, he is mining different coins now, but if he had stuck with one or two good ones and kept at it, he would have made more return on his investment.

If I were you, I would just buy bitcoin and litecoin with the money. :)

I would start an investment journal like here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=406112.0

Guy has 10,000 USD worth of HBN, with 2% returns every 10 days That's $600 every 10days for you... thats at current market prices for HBN (hobonickels). Hobonickels has a strong community behind it, and many believe it will still go up. Besides HBN this would be my personal journal with 30K

• 8500USD >LTC
• 4000 USD > VERT
• 3000 USD > Peercoin
• 2500USD >BTC
• 1500USD > FTC
• 1500 USD > DOGE
• 1500 USD > Darkcoin
• 1500 USD> Maxcoin
• 1500 USD> Fluttercoin
• 1500 USD > Devcoin
• 1500 USD > Goldcoin

DISCLAIMER: AM NOT A BAGHOLDER

Just buy coins and the above is not a bad idea at all. If I didn't mess so much with miners I would have more bitcoins. End of the year I hope to have a decent stack but in this situation do not mine. 1 may 1 thz starts mining for me I wait that out. But so much mining power getting on the network what you think when asicminer activate there gen 3 farm? Normal miners will by quicker out the game then ever. It has been a racing game since the start if you bet on the right horse you get first in the line and you make plenty off bitcoins thats just how it works. Like gathering in a gold mine. if I had spare money buy bitcoins all the way.

If someone releases a 1000 thz machine you are first? Of course invest but always risk.

not if you instamine for 5 min and then shut down your ring

If I had $30000 to invest  I would try to have as much bitcoins as possible quiclky because I believe in bitcoins.
The best way to have more bitcoins with fiat is to buy shares of mining compagnies earning bitcoins.

Hypothesis

• I WANT to risk my $30000
• I AM a real bitcoin believer
• 2014 BTC = $500
• 2015 BTC = $1,000
• My compagny will reinvest enougth to outpass de difficulty growth

Option 1 - Buy BTC & wait - I buy 60 BTC  ====>      2015 value : 60 * 1000 = $60,000


Option 2 - Buy Shares &  take dividends - I buy 60 shares 1BTC each - Dividend 50% per year
                              2015 value :
                                     Dividends  2014 :  15BTC
                                     Dividends  2015 :  30BTC
                                     Shares      : 60BTC
                                        Total           60+30+15 =105BTC *$1000 = $105,000

And on top...if we are 2015 and BTC = $1000 the value of my shares will be much more than 60BTC. May be 100 I think so it is more $145,000


Option 3 - Buy Shares & reinvest dividends - I buy 60 shares 1BTC each - Dividend 50% per year
                              2015 value :
                                     Dividends  2014 : 15BTC ==>reinvest
                                     Dividends  2015 : 37.5BTC
                                     Shares      : 75BTC
                                        Total           75+37.5 = 112.5BTC * $1000 = $112.500
And on top...my shares worth more 75 ==>130... so may be  $167,500

Only invest what you can afford to lose. My suggestion would be to buy Bitcoins and hold for 1-2 years minimum.

+1.
You should consider it a long-term investment, so don't need to get happy when the price go up 10% a day or get worried when the price go down 10% a day. Just relax and check the price every once in a while ;)

Buy BTC is the way to go..

Keep in mind that without miners - crypto dies.

We NEED miners.

I say spend your money ALL on mining gear.

Just buy the right stuff.

SO MUCH out there is over priced and ridiculous.

If you find the RIGHT gear (and know when to move it and upgrade) then you will be fine.

True.
But even with people quitting, difficulty will drop and mining profitability will go up. So, the mining market will become stable sooner or later.

Don't listen to this guy. He has a limited amount of knowledge and understanding. Investing everything in mining will likely never even ROI.

Hell yea, $30k gets you 20 TH/s worth of miners from Spondoolies lowering my already measly shares, keep him away from my pool!   :P

To any potential 'investors':

'Tis best to buy bitcoins with the money. Don't buy any mining equipment now, because you will regret it.

If you are determined to buy mining hardware, then at least wait until next month when my company unveils the latest and greatest double sha256 miner ever. Seriously, it'll be worth the wait.  :)

You may want to take some cash and buy bitcoins now, however, since that now-famous log price chart suggests the price may rise soon. I tend to side with contrarians, so I'm ambivalent.

Or at least dollar-cost average into the market, a strategy works well in most secular bull markets.

Specs?

Which company is he referring to?

Yes, don't listen to the people telling you to mine. Listen to the people telling you NOT to mine *checks to see those ants are running*

Seriously, leave the mining to those already invested. We miners don't need difficulty to go up anymore than it already is, every newcomer miner that joins in further decrease the amount of bitcoins mined, it's a lose-lose scenario

there are several ways to double your money in BTC business but you have to enough knowledge about your work, price, trading, ASIC companies etc...

They're all very risky however, so yeah I guess if you had information, some luck, and some guts, I guess it could happen. But mining or buying coins are the safest options.

I've been telling people for the last year to not buy ASICs and why, but they refuse to listen, then they cry when BTC hits 7 BILLION difficulty.   I was right all along. :o

Yes, Exactly. My suggestion for starter is just buy BTC, don't trade it if you want safety money,

Buy coins for your $30000, that's the only right way in my opinion. maybe in a year or so It should be like $1000-$1500 or more so you should double or even triple your investment but It still has a risk factor like every profitable investment.

At least bitcoins wont depreciate 15% every 10 days like asic hardware.

For $10000 2% every 10 days is $200 not $600.

Buy BTC... unless it already hit $1,000 when you read this...

Buy BTC

Spondoolies SP30.

The only viable investment in BTC.

The sp30 comes in august.  By then with 22 billion difficulty will roi about $2200

That is if the don't delay it (which they most likely will). It will never ROI, so this would be a bad investment.

and I doubt they will hit the target of only using 2400-2500 watts

They will go. They are serious, not like Knc, the cheap bastards.

yes.

and knc the new bfl lol

They will do the same things that BFL and KNC did. Delays, delays everywhere.

I am confident they will keep their promises.

If not I am doomed!

 8)

They almost have achieved that with the under clocked 40nm chip, SP10.

Why couldn't they with the 28nm?

They have facts. They are serious. They have cs.
Why not succeed?

lol why do you think the diff is going to 22 billion?

LOL You have NO CLUE who I am and what I have done in the bitcoin world.

I been around a LOT longer than you.

I can guarantee that.

Your website looks like a scam.


WOW I can use money to buy things? This is news to me! Where do I send all my bitcoins?

Yeah you better watch out with me ... I will scam the fuck outta you man.

By the way ... thanks for pointing out my OBVIOUS TYPO.

Fucking idiot - you are one of those 'google detective nerds' who think you are smart ... but you really are a fucking moron.

http://i59.tinypic.com/r02j4n.png

Says the guy who feels the need to tell you that money can be used to pay for lunch..

Who are you trying to fleece? Middleschoolers?

You have never been in a fist fight in your life.

I guarantee you ... you wouldn't talk to me like that face to face.

I am done with this thread.  You are a keyboard warrior who has never, ever punched someone in the face before.

Obligatory: do you even lift?

That prediction is pretty modest IMHO.

The difficulty increased to 2,193,847,870 on Jan 24, and it became 8,000,872,136 on Apr 29.
ie. 265% increase in that period (slight more than 3 months), and the sp30 will come in 3 months.

FOR REPS!


srsly though. mining is tough, i bought because the BTC i used were effectively 'free'. I still somewhat regret as I'll likely never get those BTC back. if you have USD to invest in bitcoin, best bet is to buy BTC with them

lol. Reps on recharge!


Lettuce be real tea, w00tcoin is most likely a scammer. Or if his business is not a scam, then it's a terribly run business that has demonstrated nothing except that it should be avoided at all costs. Either way, remember the adage about a fool and his money.

I'm glad w00tcoin declared that he's done with this thread, and I hope he appreciates the irony of accusing one member of being a keyboard warrior while simultaneously trash talking about fisticuffs.

What is the sp30?

A bitcoin miner I believe.

Spondoolies-Tech SP30 5.4 TH/s Yukon shipping in August.

Exactly. You can get 1 for $11,995.00 or 3 for $20,995.00, and get 10% discount if you pay whole amount upfront.
http://www.spondoolies-tech.com/collections/all/sp30

Has this company delivered products before?

I believe no. You can check the official thread  here. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=521520.0

Why do you trust them then?

They have delivered products, and have multiple reviews here.  Pricing is another thing, but they're legit.

Guys, please read some threads before posting gibberish.

Dogie has a S-T guide:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=525469

They have delivered the SP10.

Is the most professional miner at this time.

U can buy an sp30 valued at $12k for under $100 here: http://devcoinauctions.com/blog/auction/sp30-yukon-august-batch-asic-miner-5-4ths/

Go here and invest - you can buy mining MHZ and script - best to go half and half   https://www.eobot.com/new.aspx?referid=17973