Bitcoin Forum

I've been looking lately into NXT, eMunie and Ethereum; I still have to wrap my head around the details, but from what I can gather so far all of these seem rather solid propositions in paper.

In practice though... I couldn't help but notice that they all share the following:

    Premine: a small stake of the total economy is distributed among founders and friends or otherwise distributed arbitrarily to other people

    Funding & IPO: a portion of the premine is sold for funding purposes on release; prices are fixed and set by the devs on said IPOs.

    Operating like a company: It's seems pretty glaring that the focus is not so much on creating a currency but on creating a sustainable business for the founders, developers and early-early adopters.

By contrast, successful cryptocurrencies like Bitcoin and later Litecoin had no premine and no IPO or funding; they were just open-for-all experiments that grew, not cryptocurrency-businesses. Granted times have changed, and IPOs might make sense now since we know cryptos can work and everyone wants to be aboard the next Bitcoin, but still. This all sounds too much like Ripple, which as far as I'm concerned was a flop.

Am I too conservative in thinking that all of these new cryptocurrencies are doomed to fail despite their technical merits?

The first wave was about technology
The second wave must add marketing in order to be successful
For me, Ethereum cuts it so far

They will never gain adoption/popularity as Bitcoin will. No matter what they do.

Yes and Google will never beat Yahoo and AOL...

Yeah, right... Keep on dreaming!!!

Actually Google is the leader, so is Bitcoin; that won't change anytime soon, if ever.
You are posting random nonsense.

Well, technology keeps moving forward, what if we'll have Quantum computers in near future? Do you imagine how fast we could mine bitcoins then? 21 million wouldn't be a problem..

Do not worry about that. It isn't going to happen that soon , also there is a chance that they won't be able to work with Bitcoin.

As of today the status is:

Bitcoin has a marketcap of 6000M$ and perhaps 3-5 million users
Nxt has a marketcap of 26M$ and perhaps 1000-10000 users(?)
eMunie has a marketcap of 0M$ and 0 users(?)
ethereum has a marketcap of 0M$ and 0 users

Whether that will change is hard to predict, and anyone guessing it right will stand to make a fortune. With regards to premine/IPO I think you're right. Why would a superior concept need millions of investment when Bitcoin itself was boostrapped from 0$? It's actually a good contra-indicator. I don't mind risk-capital pushing things forward. there is a lot of handwaving/marketing going on. again, Bitcoin didn't require that at all, and nowadays it would be very easy for a new protocol to emerge. I'm confident that appropriate meta-protocols and markets will evolve overt time. Exchanges will ban clones / pump&dumps as demand for those coins will fade.

Having said that I don't find that the concepts of the alternatives are "solid", quite the opposite. There are some interesting ideas, but very far from proven. And you can't really reset the bootstrap process/money supply function. A system with a dynamic money supply could be an interesting experiment, though.

Bitcoin was instamined (cousin of the premine) by SN. Personally, I have no problem with a premine as long as the founders are upfront about it and are transparent as to its use. For example, using it to fund activities which bolster adoption of the currency.


I think that the alts are a good thing, regardless of whether they succeed or fail. I'm thinking specifically of the ones which add something to the knowledge space, like the PoS coins, like Ethereum, like NXT. Even if they fail, they are taking risks that the Bitcoin team cannot take and they are breaking new ground, and kudos to them for doing it.

NXT in particular has potential for much wider adoption.

No, that's wrong. bitcoin 0.1 was released on Fri, 09 Jan 2009 17:05:49 -0800 (md5sum dca1095f053a0c2dc90b19c92bd1ec00 ). The timestamp of the gensis block was 2009-01-09 02:54:25 [1]. The famous quote from the genesis block is proof that the launch was after 2009-01-03: The Times 03/Jan/2009 Chancellor on brink of second bailout for banks.

That he owns 10% of the money supply is due to the fact that interest in the beginning was very low, and everything was mined after launch. And he has spend only 50 BTC of it (at least as far as I know). He might as well could have destroyed the coins, but that might have lead to some confusion.

[1] http://blockexplorer.com/block/00000000839a8e6886ab5951d76f411475428afc90947ee320161bbf18eb6048

I have developed an idea for a new type of crypto-currency which will be all community driven. No IPO's, No Pre-Mine and the community will control everything involved with it.

The problem however is that they are not rewarding people in a meaningful way to secure the block chain and in nxt's case of rewarding stake holders increasing rewards based on increasing stake seems fool hardy as all you would need to break the system would be a larger stake than everyone else and to not spend until the remaining coins shoot up in value to some ungodly level ..

I've developed an idea for a new type of crypto-currency which will be all community driven. No IPO's, No Pre-Mine and the community will control everything involved with it.

Hi, there are already community driven coins out ...

check http://crypto-coins-table.com/

In practice these are young projects that require a lot of dev work/maintenance, and the original devs know better what they are doing. Plus I'm not sure if the community would be okay with a copycat for the sake of avoiding premining. But I guess it's worth a try if someone is up to the task.

This post demonstrates that you haven't even read about the fundamentals of Bitcoin yet.

It sounds great in theory... but in practice it will be horrible.

When the community drives a coin fully, it has no direction.  There has to be a leader.

Building consensus is one thing, but letting a community lead without having a direction is another. 

For my money... we have all the technology we need now.  The coin that wins the race will be about planning and marketing.  Like BTC, you should be able to any of the "crap" coins out there and make them a winner simply by doing the work required to make them appeal to the masses.

BTC has a lot going for it, and a lot of drawbacks as well.  That is also true of any of the alt-coins present or in the near future.

I think cryptos could change the world - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H4HW-TP9RD4 - the problem with Bitcoin is - it is too slow and too robusts - it suffers from the mtgox paradox - it was big first, but still has many issues. Especially slow development


Nxt introduction: http://justpaste.it/nxt-introduction-4-journalists

What can bring Nxt? http://justpaste.it/nxt-decentralized-internet

No, Bitcoin isn't slow. Stop promoting Nxt, nobody really likes it.

Couple of points :

Premine isn't applicable to pure poS currencies...no mining, no premine. All coins are created at genesis.
As with NXT: 1 billion coins in a few seconds, and no more will ever be made.

IPO's are tricky. NXT was probably the very first use of an IPO-like structure to distribute a coin (correct me if wrong, pls) but since NXT's launch the use of an IPO has become insanely popular, especially with the more scammy members of our community.

Most of the 2nd gen cryptos have much more in-built functionality than the old-school first gen cryptos. In order to utilise and exploit this functionality, businesses are being set up by the users of 2nd gen currencies such as NXT.

I think you are being too conservative. The possiblities that some 2nd gen systems offer are absolutely amazing....I think that in a few years to a decade (barring a zombie apocalypse) almost all of a persons financial life will run on a blockchain somewhere.

This means not just using the simple money payment/storage/transfer that first gen systems offer, but asset exchanges, blockchain storage, distributed autonomous corporations, contract signing......everything: your mortgage,  your employers business, your investment portfolio, your favourite game, your NetFlix content, your customer loyalty card, will all be under your direct control, accessible via a 2nd/3rd generation blockchain based system.
(I hope this system will be NXT, obviously)

@Lauda: well, there are a few people who like NXT, but that isn't really the point.
You can't turn the clock back by five years, mate: first gen cryptos will become obsolete, 2nd and 3rd gen will take over that functionality and much more.
The only real question is who will be the ultimate leader of the 2nd gen pack : NXT, Ripple, eMunie, Ethereum, MasterCoin...?  

And Bitcoin is slow in comparison with NXT. I can shift NXT from account to account with almost no lag-time in between hitting send and seeing it (unconfirmed) on the recieving account. BTC takes minutes to achieve the same, and getting the required number of confirmations is again slower than with getting NXT transfers confirmed.
I've just spent much of last week trading NXT to BTC to fiat, and NXT is so much quicker to use.    

Not really. The majority don't have interest in second or third gen.
I don't even need to be able to shift NXT like that. Those features are obsolete.

Who is SN?

Satoshi Nakamoto, the anonymous inventor(s) of Bitcoin.

No it was not instamined. Stop spreading nonsense. Bitcoin was released to the public on time. The problem is that nobody really wanted to mine it. That's the peoples fault.

Let's be realistic. People who develop or buy these altcoins just want a quick profit. These coins are made to be pumped and dumped on exchanges because this "free market" allows for it with everyone trying to be the first then Next... That's why they all will fall down.

It's sad to say that, but I think that people who can create the ultimate altcoin are people behind the porn indusry. Because the Porn Industry is the most earning all-over the world and it's the biggest player of new technology, the Internet and file-sharing networks got more popular because of porn. But that seems the porn industry prefers credit cards...

Nxt, nobody really likes it?
Do not speak for everyone.
Old-fashioned guy,
Nxt will change the world

No. Such coins won't gain major adoption. Even Bitcoin is not close to that, even though it is in front of every other alt by far.

put it on the side of a nascar..  ::)

nice subtle advertising lol

Not all the Alts are bad news.  The issue is people don't know the difference between one or the other and hope if they invest early that coin will explode in value. Chances are they won't and people will lose money.  Their are definitely coins worth investing in but don't expect to get rich quick.  It takes time for a coin to get the proper attention it needs to grow and then the financial backing will come for real growth.
The more people educate themselves the more people will prosper.

No, you're not too conservative. The fact is, many people are turned off by IPO's and Premines for a good reason, with an IPO or a Premine, only a handful of people get A LOT of coins, making it absurdly unfair. Just look at NXT's IPO, a little over 70 stakeholders got 90% of the NXT in circulation and the price of NXT is extremely low despite the fact that it's "innovative" just because of it's horrible distribution. It's stupid.
You don't need IPO's or Premines. Cryptos aren't companies, they're currencies.
Any coin with IPO or Premine, I'm out, not even gonna bother with.

90-95% are actually bad. The ones (some of them) that aren't remain in the shadows of these new coins being released everyday.

One of the reason that new alts are pupping out everyday like mushrooms after rain is the hope of explode in value(like happened with bitcoin)and instantly from poor your millionaire .

The only actual IPO of a new coin and code so far is NXT and the price did explode in price. Problem is most 'new' coins are just clones of Bitcoin or NXT. Qora and Exocoin are however real new coins with new code. I personally expect an explosion on the upside. People and the market have a great way of sniffing out genuine from copy and paste crap. NXT also if there was any justice be a few times the price it is now but got the rough end of negative people who were bitter they didn't buy in.

agree, it's not about having a pop in price cause some of the most stupid coins including the country coins have had this. It's the slow burners and the ones that can maintain a price long after the hype has died down. It's like music, the decent bands of each fashion continue on while most don't. the coins I see like this are Bitcoin, Litecoin, Darkcoin, Mastercoin etc basically anything that brings something new or innovative. I hope Exocoin and Qora too as they are genuine new codes that may bring new things to the table but I admit that's my hope at this point cause I bought into them cause I see potential in genuine new coins.

What is the point of pre-mining 2-5% of the coins if the project is open source? Can't someone immediately upon release just create an exact copy paste version that simply isn't premined?

In theory yes. In practice these are young projects that require a lot of dev work/maintenance, and the original devs know better what they are doing. Plus I'm not sure if the community would be okay with a copycat for the sake of avoiding premining. But I guess it's worth a try if someone is up to the task.
 

Another random coin, people shouldn't waste time on this.