Bitcoin Forum

Our goal is to be the preferred method to pay and get paid globally in the Internet gaming industry. We have created an extensive network of licensed sportsbooks and casinos from around the world, and you can play at all of them with the convenience of the bitcoin network.


Over the next fews months, the Cointeller Network will continue to grow as we add the best sportsbooks and casinos. Our goal is to have 50 members in the Cointeller Network by the end of 2014.


We aim to go above and beyond creating the largest network of reputable BTC sportsbooks and casinos. We will provide the best possible betting experience for our players through our staff of VIP Hosts, each of whom has received extensive training to provide a better customer experience. Our VIP Hosts work for Cointeller, not the sportsbooks, and are available to help you with anything you need.


Cointeller takes the security of our customers' deposits very seriously. We keep all customer deposit wallet addresses in cold storage, and you can always verify your deposit's safety via any blockchain website. In addition, customer deposits and winnings at any Cointeller Network site are guaranteed by Cointeller.


We maintain balances at all sites in our network, and our customers are free to open accounts at any of them at any time. Using bitcoin allows for fast, same day deposits and withdrawals, and we allow our customers to move between the sites in our network just as easily.


Feel free to ask any questions you may have in this thread, we are excited to join the community at BitcoinTalk and will be visiting here often!

Sooo you are like a go between for the user and the casino? So if the casino goes rogue and doesn't pay will you pay the user since you told them the casino was safe? Funds are supposed to be ssfe with you guys and your chosen sports books so I would assume so!

Exactly, we are able to mitigate our risks to any single site in the Cointeller Network, and we pass that on to our customers.

Perhaps more importantly, we are allowing bitcoin users to access "traditional" sportsbooks and online casinos that have not offered bitcoin as a deposit or withdrawal option.  These sportsbooks are not new to the gaming industry, and we believe they offer a better customer experience than one is accustomed to in the bitcoin gambling industry.  We let the Cointeller Network Sportsbooks focus on offering the best lines, limits, and other offerings while we focus on providing easy access for our customers.

A few questions:


1) From the FAQ on site -

"Do I need to provide any forms of identification, proof of residence, or other personal information?
Cointeller will ask for any personal information or identification. Customer privacy is one of our founding principles and we will never collect personally identifying information from any customer."

Since these 2 statements contradict, I assume "will ask" is supposed to be "will not ask"?


2) I'd like to find out what books are available before I become a member.
Why isn't that info available?


3) "Cointeller takes the security of our customers' deposits very seriously. We keep all customer deposit wallet addresses in cold storage, and you can always verify your deposit's safety via any blockchain website. In addition, customer deposits and winnings at any Cointeller Network site are guaranteed by Cointeller."

This is great that you guarantee payment.
There's only one problem - who are you and why I should I believe you'll be around next week?

I find your guarantee an empty statement.

Please provide proof of some sort to give me a reason to trust that you will follow thru on that.
.

4) Based on the books listed in the Peeps Place thread that you are involved with, I don't see any legitimate stable book that I am aware of.
The only legitimate established ones are "coming soon" - Pinnacle and Bookmaker.

How soon is "coming soon"?

Can you be more specific?

How are you able to mitigate your risks?

Of the books of yours I see listed in Peeps Place thread, only 2 are even listed at SBR:

ABCIslands  = Rated C

InstantActionSports  = Rated C

"SBR recommends players choose sportsbooks with a minimum rating of B+"

"C- to C+    Average service and some risk to players funds."

Gogo PP

Lots of good questions, here are some answers.

Thanks for spotting that typo, we are fixing it now.

The books in the Cointeller Network are listed on the Cointeller.eu website under a section named Network, they can also be found here: http://cointeller.eu/network (http://cointeller.eu/network)

We are negotiating with a number of sportsbooks.  I can’t provide any specific timeline in regards to a particular sportsbook.  You might see some of these on board as early as next week while others might not join the network until end of the summer (Closer to football season).  Our goal is to have 50 books up by the end of the year.

Mitigating risks?  We are assuming responsibility for all balances involved in the Cointeller Network.  Rather than engage in business with just a few sportsbooks, we have contracted with a large pool of sportsbooks and agents.  Bet sizes are reasonable but not excessive, you will typically find maximum bet sizes of around 4 BTC in most packages at this time.

Ratings (especially SBR's) are subjective and often times reflect whether a rating site conducts business with a sportsbook. Additionally, ratings usually include a number of factors : financial solvency, customer service, bet variety, customer limits.  I would look at payout reports from customers for a better way of rating individual books.

In the case of the Cointeller Network, all funds backed up by Cointeller. Cointeller is in some cases contracting service through an agent of the sportsbook, not the post up division of the sportsbook.  In the case of Cointeller,  rating of the sportsbook is irrelevant since these accounts are booked by agents of book.

This is no different than SBOBitcoin, by the way.  Open an account with them and you are betting at Pinnacle,  but is Pinnacle booking your action?  No, you are being booked by an agent of Pinnacle.  So the A+ rating of Pinnacle is of little benefit.   Your only question should be, “do I trust Cointeller to stand behind the balance of my [Book name here] account?”  We believe the answer to that question is a firm yes, but we recognize that the burden of proof falls upon us to prove this.  We hope to grow our reputation and your trust over time through quality service and payout reports from players.


Thanks for asking the tough (and most important) questions, we will be here to answer more!

Cointeller, just to clarify, all deposits and bets are done through your site meaning we don't have to create accounts on the individual bookmaker's sites?

That is correct, you deposit once with Cointeller, and then you are free to disperse your balance across the various sites in our network as you wish.  Also, both your balance at Cointeller.eu and your balances at any of the sportsbooks are kept in BTC or mBTC, balances are never converted to fiat.

Wow, that is fantastic! Please get Pinnacle on board ASAP - that bookmaker alone would take interest in your site "to the moon" as they say  ;D

"This is no different than SBOBitcoin, by the way.  Open an account with them and you are betting at Pinnacle,  but is Pinnacle booking your action?  No, you are being booked by an agent of Pinnacle.  So the A+ rating of Pinnacle is of little benefit."

I disagree.

If I use SBOBitcoin or any other agent and get an account with Pinnacle, Pinnacle is booking the action and the A+ rating (and mainly, their history, reputation, my knowledge and previous dealings with them) make me feel secure that the money is there to cover my bets.
If I win X dollars, Pinnacle pays the X dollars to SBOBitcoin or any other agent, and the agent pays me with the money received from Pinnacle.

The danger is whether the agent will pass the winnings back to me without stiffing.
[And then whether Pinnacle (or any other sportsbook using agents) will take responsibility].

The agent is a conduit, telling Pinnacle they'll pay Pinnacle for my losing bets (with my post up funds in the case of SBOBitcoin or yourself), and telling me that you'll pay me my winnings with the money Pinnacle gives you.

So imo at least I don't have to worry about whether Pinnacle has the funds to cover my winnings.
I have to worry about the agent being honorable and passing the funds from Pinnacle to me.

Whereas if it's a shaky book, there's the chance the book goes under in the future.
Then the agent could be put in a difficult financial situation trying to cover winning bets themselves.
So a bad situation is more likely.

Our statement regarding the agent - pinnacle relationship is overly broad, there are many arrangements as to how agents and their parent sportsbooks conduct business.  We would like to respect the arrangements of agents and their parent sportsbooks regarding individual details, but comparing the bet limits an agent's account takes vs the bet limits at the parent sportsbook usually signals which type of relationship exists.

In our situation, we are placing ourselves between many sportsbooks and sportsbook agents, all of whom we have vetted and have met our requirements to be added to the Cointeller Network.

This is truly an innovative concept being done here. I will definitely take part once I see some events I want to bet on.

If it's a pay-per-head shop, which apparently many of your books are, then yes the agent is booking the bets.

If it's Pinnacle, SBOBet, IBCBet, Bookmaker, then the sportsbook is booking the action, and the agent is getting a commission based on player loss.

I'd feel much more comfortable with one of those books, than with an unknown company giving me an account with an unknown agent.

As Cointeller has mentioned in this thread, SBOBitcoin.com has been doing this for about 6 months already.


"This is truly an innovative concept..."

Agents have existed for a long time.

Some agents receive a volume percentage instead of percentage of losses.

As of right now everyone needs to know that this place is offering books who have screwed players in the past, I have read horror stories from some of the books. The rest of the books are just some bobo no name books that nobody ever deposits at. How can they encourage people to deposit as horsesh-it places, it says a lot about this Cointeller, I also like how they are trying to guarantee players money at these sh-it books. Of course they can't get good books yet to agree to this they are new, why would books want to trust coins and personal info with them. Hopefully it works out but any of these bonuses that come from these books are beyond risky even for me and I try out everything.

Legions36,

You raise some interesting points.  I’ll try to respond to them. 

The term “agent” is a confusing a term within this industry with a mostly pejorative connotation.   The truth is an “agent” can be bookmaker with hundreds or thousands of customers, booked through a site he has contracted to do service/write his customers or it can be a little guy who operates at the bottom end of the food chain, meeting up with small number of local players hoping to extract a small percent of player losses.  In the case of all the sites on the Cointeller Network, the accounts are being booked by large, established bookmakers with a very large customer base.  In the future, I will probably be more inclined to describe our bookmakers as “pph bookmakers” as opposed to “agents.”  Both terms are accurate but the term “agent” is confusing and unnerving for many.  The owners of Cointeller.eu as well most of the bookmakers on the Cointeller Network have been in the offshore industry for over a decade.  Many of these individuals have worked with one another for years.  There is not a bookmaker on the list that Cointeller does not feel comfortable guaranteeing.


Additionally, you will not see any large bet sizes or ridiculous bonuses.  Initial maximum bet sizes will be in the 4-6 BTC range.  This will grow in time.  At the moment, no bookmakers are allowed to offer a bonus to players on the Cointeller Network.   There are a few pph bookmakers who are willing to offer a introductory bonus and others who are dead set against it.  Allowing bonuses to be offered by a few pph bookmakers is a a real disincentive to other potential bookmakers Cointeller is currently negotiating with.   At some point, small, on-time time bonuses will be allowed .   Cointeller is focused on gradual sustained growth.

 We realize trust is not awarded without a spotless history of prompt payouts and excellent customer service.  In the months and years to come, you will see more established, well known books appear and a lot of “bobo” books.  There is no difference in terms of risk associated with any of these books.  We realize some players like to see more well known books, while other (mostly sharp) players desire off-screen pph offices with unique numbers.  We believe Cointeller offers something of value for all types of players. 

interesting concept here.  I didread the thread but might have scanned a few things.

My question is this one.

Once a client  joins through the cointeller.eu site  (which appears to only need an email  and a password)

you can then send bitcoins from your personal wallet to your cointeller account   (identified by your email and password)

then how do you line shop at all these books?  how do you see what games they might have?  if you dont have an account at any how do you look around
and choose stuff to bet on?

is it all somehow  dispalyed in the cointeller site after logging in?

------------------------------

Our customers identify the books they want to play at.  We assign them an account at those books.  They are free to move their coins as they please, throughout the Cointeller Network of books.  All of the betting is done on the websites of those sportsbooks.

could a person just say..open up one at all 9?

Yes, of course.  You may have an account at each sportsbook .  Each sportsbook has a minimum deposit amount.  Those amounts are listed on the cointeller.eu website.  Sorry to say none of our books have horses at the moment.  :'(

I'm still a bit confused as to how this works. So we open an account with Cointeller and deposit BTC to Cointeller. Do we then have to personally open accounts at each of the books we are interested in (and go through their verification procedures, send in ID, etc) or is this all handled by Cointeller?

No verification, No ID.  You are completely anonymous.  We provide you with the accounts from the sportsbooks. 

it looks like about 4 of them offer horses?  why do you say they dont?

Each bookmaker can enable/disable horses/or casino.  No one has come forward with a horses version yet.  I will keep an eye out for that.  I know DirecBet has horses, have you tried them?

they dont really have a horse book..they have to win prices on select cards...DGS horse.dog software is what is needed for a bitcoin book like most of the post up and credit books have...

Ok now it's time to consider to show some proof to all the good stuff u r saying. U say u have been in the industry for years as well as your bookmakers right? Then allow SBR or Peepsplace to look into your history more and verify everything u say to be true.
I cannot agree with what u said about SBR ratings as most of the time they are spot on, even though I don't agree with everything they have done. This raises a flag that u find the need to downplay the years they have been around. I have been with them for years and almost always followed them with good results.
Also u don't go for bonuses? This makes don't add up right, I love bonuses and feel if I want a bonus from a place then I deserve the right to have this.
What do u think about what I have said here? I also really hate that u feel all those books u have now are A+, when they really aren't even mediocre at best, the best thing they could offer players are bonuses and u won't even allow that. So people have no reason to use them when we can get better odds at other places.

Anybody have any good experiences with these guys? Considering using them.

I'm not surprised you like bonuses, most players do.  We are offering an anonymous betting service.  IMO, offering bonuses along with anonymity is foolish .  If our bookmakers want to offer such a product, I would advise them against doing it.  If you find solid betting services that offer BTC and bonuses I would you encourage you to take them.

Your analysis of A+/C- books ignores the fact that our vast majority of sportsbooks are pph bookmakers who have contracted to pph offices to write their action.  This is completely separate from the post up division of sportsbooks you are reading about. We have an established stable of bookmakers who are interesting in adding additional customers not start up sportsbooks throwing bonuses at the masses in an attempt  to instantly grow a customer base.

I appreciate your carefulness and the fact you don't know anything about us.  For your own sake, please maintain the same level of caution when you are offered BTC, bonuses and low juice.

Your response alone tells me something is up with u. Your already on the defensive and I have seen this before from places to end up screwing people. GL
People u guys need to be careful playing here. Hopefully I'm wrong. I will sit back and get more feedback from established players here before I put a penny with u, I have so many places to choose from before going to u.

Over the next few days we are going to point out some lines and prices offered within the Cointeller Network that differ from the general market and might increase profits.


Thursday May 1:

528 Golden State Under 210 currently offered at ABC Islands.  We predict the current market price of 209.5 will be trending downward, getting 210 makes this a very attractive position.



By becoming a Cointeller member, you gain access to these lines and more.  Add to your repertoire, go beyond the on-screen, public, post up books, and start betting like a sharp with Cointeller.eu.

I like the idea so I'm trying to think of an added benefit to using this service. Could you middle a bet at two books?  That is, are the odds at books in the network sometimes different so you can get over 209 and under 210.5 on a given nba game?

Are the transfers instant when you deposit and withdraw from a certain book?

Finally I do need to see someone posting that they've used the service before I would consider depositing.

Your top book is Jazz(ABC Islands)...who's Philadelphia agent almost bankrupted them because he buried all the cash in plastic pipes in the back yard in BROAD DAY LIGHT in front of all the neighbors
Than they went and bought that dump-card room/casino/Whore house in costa rica and have continued to lose money on it

Not my top choice for the Escazu strip mall sportsbooks

But to be fair they are trying to come back and have had no pay out issues and have, last i heard paid everyone they owed
But still top management has made some very bad choices

You get Mickey or Tony(If your legitimate than you know who they are and what books they own) to post in this thread that they have met with you and vouch for your company
than i will be the first to sign up
I post all over sportsbook forumville
go over and check some of my post/threads
shouldn't be to hard to figure out my handle
otherwise i would advise everyone to proceed with extreme caution


 

How do you guys protect yourselves vs sharps ?

I sent a message 3 days ago and still have no answer.
I also sent some bitcoin to my deposit address, and my account has not been credited yet.

If anybody is thinking of using this service, I would recommend to wait.

OP logged in his account last time on May 31, which is probably not a good news to you...
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=319428

Update from Cointeller.eu,

We have been in the process of revamping our support staff and support processes.  A number of support tickets submitted via our customer dashboard were marked as Completed by a member of the support staff when in fact they had not been addressed.

We have finished working through these support tickets, if you were affected by this, or if you have any questions, please do not hesitate to contact us via this forum or the customer dashboard.

We will soon be releasing our live customer support chat system, which should allow for much better support and addressing of issues.

On a brighter note, we have been steadily growing since the launch of the Cointeller Network, and despite this temporary lapse in support our customers seem to be very pleased with the wide array of betting options available to them.  We hope to have some great news on new additions to the Cointeller Network soon!

This was posted in another thread, but since the World Cup is so popular right now we thought we would copy it over here:

Many of the sportsbooks in the Cointeller Network are primarily focused on sports that are most popular in North America.  You may find that some of these sites might have better odds and more beatable lines on World Cup games than the typical European sportsbooks!

For example, ABCWagering, one member of the Cointeller Network, [was] offering Algeria +1.5 goals at a price of Even Money, while Pinnacle Sports and BetFair [were] charging 9 cents or more.

Line shopping is incredibly important in order to profit at sportsbetting, and Cointeller.eu is here to help!


In addition, time and again customers are complaining about tickets not being graded quickly.  Each of the sites in the Cointeller Network uses industry-leading sportsbetting software with clerks standing by to grade each game as it finishes.  It takes a long time to work out all the kinks in proper sportsbetting software, as a Cointeller customer you can take advantage of sites that have been around for a long time, whose software has already had these common bugs worked out!

Here is another update on Cointeller.eu's series about Line Shopping.  Getting the best lines and prices is critical to making a profit in sportsbetting.  Many of the books in the Cointeller Network have a large percentage of their players in North America.  Could this offer some opportunities for Cointeller.eu customers to get a great price on today's USA vs Belgium World Cup game?

If you favor Belgium, the answer is definitely yes.  Two books in the Cointeller.eu Network, Instant Action Sports and BetOasis, currently have Belgium listed as +112 (2.12) on the 3-way ML and a spread of -0.5 goals at a price of +106 (2.06).  These prices are better than any public book you will find listed on your favorite odds websites and we expect these prices to continue climbing as books attempt to balance the public action coming in on USA.

By becoming a Cointeller member, you gain access to these lines and more.  Add to your repertoire, go beyond the on-screen, public, post up books, and start betting like a sharp with Cointeller.eu.

Stay tuned for more posts in our Line Shopping series!

Another great example of the value of line shopping:  One of the Cointeller.eu members, Vrapo, is offering Belgium +105 on the 3-way ML.  Currently most offshore books are somewhere between +100 and -105.  When you are trying to make a profit sportsbetting, every cent counts!

Get access to these lines and more today at Cointeller.eu - Join now! (http://cointeller.eu)