Bitcoin Forum

With all the bad news from vircurex (which includes cryptostocks), is there any place someone could list their project on ?

What about doing direct shares and skipping the exchanges?

Any advice would be appreciated.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=395761.0

Decentralised exchange.
Not at the mercy of a fraudulent exchange operator such as serial scammer kumala

What sort of project is it?

You could try MPEx (mpex.co (http://mpex.co)) or Havelock (havelockinvestments.com (http://havelockinvestments.com)).

A nice place to start is on IRC, #bitcoin-assets on freenode.net http://bitcoin-assets.com/ (http://bitcoin-assets.com/)

Is that supposed to be a joke? MPEx is a scam site that is about to be shut down by the FBI. All the volumes on their are manipulated and users are leaving it in increasing numbers. The owner is being actively investigated by the SEC - it is a matter of time before he is extradited.

OP, be kind to minerpart.  He's been through the ringer.  He "invested" in an elderly alcoholic who was peddling his wares on BTCT.
That got shut down.
So the sideshow packed up and moved to Bitfunder.
...yeah.

To double up on teh lulz, the elderly gent told his "investors" to give him all of their shares ...which they did.

That's hard on a guy, OP.  Give him time to grieve and adjust to his newfound poverty.

*Oh yeah, guess what the investment was called?  You won't believe it, OP!  "Virtual Identity" known as Active Mining.  I shit you not, that's the exact quote, I didn't mean "virtual entity," "Virtual Identity."
In context it's even lulzier: "AMC is a virtual identity totally owned by the Active Mining Corporation (Belize) that represents both itself and its profits." So yeah, imagine trying to live something like that down.

There's a good troll, then.

OP - minerpart is clearly butthurt and not interested in helping you. I agree with Peter Lambert's advice, MPEX seems to be the most robust but also the most difficult to list on (for good reason). Havelock isn't terrible, but you will also have to go through some stringent due diligence questioning (on IRC at least) if you want to list. As with any business, you'll need to establish some sort of personal reputation and get listed in the Bitcoin-OTC Web of Trust on IRC (and have some reputation!) before any serious investor will look at investing.

If you are happy being labelled a scam and raising a few pennies only to run away with them, I strongly suggest the various smaller scamstock exchanges such as CryptoStocks, PicoStocks, and BitcoinBourse. If you like the idea of not complying with any regulation, making scamming extremely easy, I strongly suggest you look at the crazy bullshit that is BitShares and CounterParty. Have fun, and let us know what prison is like if you decide to go this route.

CipherTrade is well worth keeping an eye one.  London UK based, with a strong desire to be regulator compatible.

http://www.ciphertrade.com/

Don't believe all the rumors you hear on this site.


If you are still looking for options, to start a project you could try https://bitcoinstarter.com/ (https://bitcoinstarter.com/), which works something like Kickstarter.

fourhundreadapm/OP

Just so you know Mirceau Popescu the scammer who runs MPEx is a highly active Troll on here with around 15 accounts. He is posting in this thread as:

sporket
rethink-your-strategy

His accounts are not too difficult to spot, they are usually newly registered and almost every post is either attacking/Trolling Active Mining or promoting MPEx.

For Peter here is evidence of the SEC investigation:
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-03-19/gambling-website-s-bitcoin-denominated-stock-draws-sec-inquiry.html (http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-03-19/gambling-website-s-bitcoin-denominated-stock-draws-sec-inquiry.html)

I'm sure many SEC full-blown investigations begin with this sort of contact. Popescu has point blank refused to cooperate with the SEC and has openly mocked their inquiry. What happens next is open to conjecture but he has and continues to brake laws on operating an unlicensed securities exchange under Romanian and US law. If there was hard evidence that he manipulates his volumes I would send it to the SEC. Only an analysis of his software/computers would reveal hard evidence. But he claims to have a huge and growing traded volume going against every trend in stocks and exchanges in the Bitcoin sphere - red flag. He also claims and is listed as a Billionaire, yet he charges access to his blog for $5 a day - red flag. His MPOE is valued at over 400Million dollars - by himself. Reg flags everywhere.  This guy Trolls for up to 16 hours a day yet claims to run a successful business - red flag. He is a dirty Trolling scam artist like no-one else in this industry. He is going to jail, no citation needed.

havelocks probably the best. its slow at times but will give your investors piece of mind when it comes to their security and your intentions. allot of people won't trade on MPEx, not because its necessarily a scam(but this is worrying considering the investigations going on), but more because of the negative PR, the poor site design and the way a few of there management handled themselves on this forum.

Counterparty is another good example. but it just seems like a bit of a nightmare to use compared to the other exchanges, i do believe its the future, but probably not right now.

good luck.

Well now you're just being insulting. I've wandered across his/her posts (mpoe-pr?) and read some of his blog posts, but I am not him. I'm not a big fan of his snark, even though I must begrudgingly admit that he is very often right about many of the scammers. On the other hand, you just sound like a small, angry man, who needs to childishly lash out at me because I don't agree with your opinion. Go have something to drink and we'll talk later, ok buddy? <3 you lots like jelly tots.

My major concern with havelock is how none of the projects listed on there are trading above IPO price - yet havelock interacts with each business by determining when to release funds etc. Now, this concern is valid but it pales in comparison with cryptostock - where the owner is a known thief.

Counterparty looks good on the surface but seems very difficult to use.. and I've yet to find any IPO's on there that have sold more than a handful of shares.

This leaves me in a bind.. I am more inclined to do a direct share issuance, but would appreciate any and all feedback with that approach

This is exactly what I mean OP.

This account was registered today just to back up MPEx. So you are reading the words of Mirceau Popescu - a Billionaire. Can you see the level the guy is on? He is a snidey immature little lost soul. A pathetic creature. That's not my prejudice - it's just factual! If you want to entrust your business to some Romanian guy who thinks it correct to behave like this and thinks it's right to try to destroy other businesses in the Bitcoin community then don't say you weren't warned.

@minerpart:

http://images.dangerousminds.net/uploads/images/thorazine4asds.gif.jpg

"The road to mental health is just around the corner!" ~Dr.Evans

Notlambchop - Mirceau Popescu's THIRD visit to this thread.

MPEx is run by a fool.

Sounds like you two have a love affair..

MP? MinerPart?  Mircea Popescu?  MP?!1!1!
Coincidence?  I think not >:(


"Just the place for a Snark! I have said it THRICE: What I tell you three times is true."

@fourhundredapm:  Nah, he's in an abusive relationship with an elderly gent named Ken.

i don't know all of the securities on havelock as well as i should, but i know PETA trades above IPO price. its also important to note that all of the securities on havelock are serious business propositions, and very few serious business propositions will see a high return in their first six months.

the only exclusion to this was NEOBEE, but as most people know, neobee was a serious proposition but was just handled extremely poorly.

havelock is probably the way to go. if your serious about a long-term business, and you don't mind them having somewhat control of your funds(which is necessary to give security to investors), then speak to their team, they are known to be extremely helpful and truthful with what they can and will provide, and will always work with businesses in there earliest stages to help them get off the ground.

good luck.

Lol, of all the securities being traded on Havelock, PETA is THE ONLY ONE trading above IPO.  Give it time.  Pays to familiarize yourself with the topic you weigh in on :)

inb4 "but ASICMINER!":  That was listed on Havelock @4.5, currently trading @0.50

If Havelock was a casino, the owner would have been lynched by now.

Your claim that "very few serious business propositions will see a high return in their first six months" is absolutely irrelevant.  Serious businesses may not show profit for years, but their share price doesn't plummet within weeks of IPO.  

your missing the point. as i said, serious businesses don't turn over huge profits within their first six months.

havelock offers the best security for investors and an environment where long-term business's can grow. they are the closest thing we have to a real securities exchange in the bitcoin space.

if you want mickymouse securities then head over to cryptostocks.

See edit above:
"Your claim that "very few serious business propositions will see a high return in their first six months" is absolutely irrelevant.  Serious businesses may not show profit for years, but their share price doesn't plummet within weeks of IPO."

Further, Havelock is in teh panic mode.  Its own share price has plummeted since it has missed its profit projections by an order of magnitude.  It's listing junk securities like Seedcoin II -- a startup raising money to invest in startups. <==Not shitting you.

Seedcoin I, of course, is trading below IPO :(

well then the businesses should have set lower IPO prices. this is nothing to do with havelocks competency as a securities exchange.

and im sorry, but how is a hedgefund that invests in bitcoin startups a bad idea? most people would love to invest in bitcoin startups, this gives them a way of doing it without all the hassle and the need for large amounts of funds.

your arguements are baseless. you clearly have no ideas about stocks or securities outside the bitcoin world.

Of course it does.  Vetting ridiculous "businesses" with absurdly high self-valuations is the hallmark of scammy exchanges.

Re. Seedcoin II:  Seedcoin I is failing, with advertised projects backing out.  Is it investing the freed coin into this new promising startup, Seedcoin II?  Hell no.  Why?
So much fail here...

Finally, why would anyone with half a brain hand coin over to a "fund manager" with secure bitcoin exchanges, like Havelock, around?  There's no barrier to entry whatsoever -- feel free to invest lunch money.

And finally finally, re. "no ideas about stocks or securities outside the bitcoin world.":  This is Bitcoin, brah.  The shit that passes for "securities" here wouldn't pass for toilet paper IRL.

thats not the fault of the securities exchanges that the value has gone down, what your forgetting is the fragile nature of bitcoin investors looking for a quick profit; when they find there first dividend isn't coming for a year or they are not getting 100% returns straight away they jump ship. this doesn't mean the exchange is less credible or the businesses themselves are not viable.

there is no barrier to entry? your joking me right? havelock is one of the, if not thee strictest exchange to get listed on and is known for its extensive due diligence.

im done replying to your FUD. your inexperience and lack of understanding of the securities world is laughable.

also, please stop making edits. either say what you men't in the first place or don't say it at all.

Mirceau you haven't got a friggin clue about the real world. Most realworld startups trade below IPO - infact most startups fail! That is 100% the norm - and an in a high risk BTC industry where BTC has fallen significantly that is even more likely.



'Most people who have invested in initial public offerings, or IPOs, in the last three years have lost money. Shares of two out of three companies which have listed during the period are trading below their issue price.'

THAT IS A QUOTE ABOUT REAL WORLD COMPANIES!!
http://businesstoday.intoday.in/story/ipos-trading-below-issue-price-good-picks-in-current-market/1/190091.html (http://businesstoday.intoday.in/story/ipos-trading-below-issue-price-good-picks-in-current-market/1/190091.html)




SO MUCH FAIL? Yes from you!
 :D :D :D :D :D


And you RUN an exchange??? :o :o :o

By "no barrier to entry," I'm talking about investors -- the idiots that would buy Seedcoin.  I have no idea what the vetting process is for Havelock, but just in the last month two securities packed up and said kthxbi! (see COG).

@minerpart: Return to your containment thread.  Or Dr.Benway >:(

Well, shit, I wish I was a billionaire. Seriously. I appreciate the effort you're putting in to this argument, but I genuinely am not "Mirceau Popescu". My account is freshly registered because I wanted to post this: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=579498.msg6386721#msg6386721 without opening my regular account up to scrutiny.

I do not think MPEX is the only exchange or the best exchange or anything like that. I was actually quite fond of BTCTC (and Burnside's other exchange, litecoinglobal, wasn't half bad) before it closed. I liked the approval and voting process, and I felt that it had a lot of potential. I was saddened by its closing. BitFunder, on the other hand, I saw coming a mile away - just trying to get on WeExchange was a ballache for no good reason.

you think a hedge fund investing in major bitcoin startups is a bad idea? and since when should investors have barriers to entry?

as a serious investor, not some kid with a computer, your an absolute idiot.

im trying not to reply back to your stupidity but my restraint is just not as strong as it should be.

OP, if you want some serious advice please contact me. this thread is just turning into a massive troll fest and im not going to be apart of it.

Welcome to bitcointalk.

Seedcoin is not a "hedge fund."  It is a d00d on the intertubes asking you for coin, which he will invest in his "other" startups -- a tired old shell game.  He has no track record, no skin in the game, IRL a "hedge fund" like that would cause plenty of laughter and fingerpointing.  Wake up, bro.

P.S:  You are the one who claimed that Seedcoin (one and now two) removes the [nonexistent] barrier to entry.  In Bitcoin securities, there's no barrier to remove -- invest your lunch money, you financial mogul you :)

I believe you now. I easily recognize Mirceau's style, the ignorance, the conceit, the rather sorry attempts at humour such as that taken at the expense of the elderly and infirm - you are not that sort of character. Accept my heartfelt apologies for even associating you with this despicable excuse for a human being. You are not a Billionaire (and neither is he) and you are not a little lost soul who is about to be locked up for a very long time. Count your blessings!

Mirceau - is this what good PR looks like in Romania? You have zero friends on here except your Troll buddies pankakke and the other guy I can't even remember VE. You make enemies all too easily. You really are a genuine sociopath and a compulsive liar. Everything you say of others is actually true almost exclusively of yourself.

Why are you selling your holdings in MPOE when you explicitly stated in your IPO document that you would NOT sell any of your stake?

Are you trying to run with the little money you are able to grab from your sham of an exchange? When will YOU disappear Mirceau?

minerpart, sometimes I wonder why I made that nice ghetto thread to contain your spergings.  If you keep wondering out and shitting up the forum, I'm afraid I'll have to up ur meds.  This is absolutely unacceptable -- you're not the only patient here.

~*Paging Dr.Benway.  Dr.Benway*~

http://www.bonkersinstitute.org/showpics/thorazsenile.gif

You will be the one needing meds when you are in your US Penitentiary. I'm guessing they will be for anal bruising rather than your untreatable antisocial personality disorder. You may be offered psychotherapy - take it if you can. It may be your only chance you poor little street urchin.