Bitcoin Forum

I read most of the thread Jr65 started with the inflammatory subject and decided to plagiarize it.  I will not post a single block of text but apologies in advance for grammar and typos.


Bitcoin was intended to be decentralized and peer-to-peer.

• Mining is no longer decentralized or peer-to-peer.  Individuals for the most part are done.  From here on in it will consolidate more and more with fewer and fewer players backed by big investors (Private Equity, Hedge funds, Banks)
• Scalability of bitcoin seems dubious and there does not appear to be a robust development plan to re-architect fundamental issues with the protocol.  Just patches and fixes.  Blockchain is currently 16.5 GB in size and will easily be 50 GB within a year.  http://stormcloudsgathering.com/bitcoin-what-youre-not-being-told (http://stormcloudsgathering.com/bitcoin-what-youre-not-being-told)
• Businesses are uneasy about adopting bitcoin because it is too unpredictable and unstable.  May go up or down hundreds of dollars in a moment’s notice.
• Over the past 6 months I’ve noticed very tight computer driven arbitrage happening between Bitstamp, BTC-e, and Huobi.  The total market cap and daily volume is nowhere near big enough to resist manipulation.  Since it’s not government backed or regulated, well the best of the best are free to manipulate it as much as possible.  I can only imagine how the different camps manipulating it are battling it out.
• Russia, China, and other corrupt authoritarian/totalitarian governments will likely stifle anything that challenges their control of banking and the flow of money within their countries.  Only those in the inner circle are allowed to launder...
• There are 650,000 stolen bitcoins out there that are likely being sold off on a regular basis providing steady downward pressure.

Bitcoin end is nigh…

Disclosure, I completely got out of bitcoin back in January.  Don’t plan to re-enter.  Providing my perspective for others to consider.  I’m sure long term holders will say “good riddance”, “more cheap coins for us”, and “HODL!”  I’d encourage anyone who is digging in harder and harder to really step back and take stock of the overall situation.

I got in because I loved the concept of bitcoin and recognized the inevitability of it.  A digital nongovernmental peer-to-peer currency will happen.  I just don’t think bitcoin will be it.  Many have pointed out its likely to be a footnote like Napster is to music distribution.  I agree.

Great post overall. But prepared to get trolled by hodlers. Many think that pointing out the deficiencies of bitcoin as it stands right now and for the predicted future makes you anti-crypto. That is not the case for most everyone.

Also it is hilarious to see hodlers/cultists say "don't sell", like you know it is cool to openly try to inflate the fiat equivalent while fear mongering about fiat and governments at the same time. If you say "don't buy from used-bitcoin salesmen" then you must be a banker. Welcome to Bitcoin Scientology Club.

You mentioned someone on ignore, therefore you go on ignore. Also, shut up.

^^ Probably a FED or NSA employee who is against crypto

Man I love how knowledgeable newbies have become these days.  We have come along way and we should be proud that they have so much to contribute to the discussion.. lol   The end of Bitcoin has been near so many times according to you fools I can't wait to see you when the fuse reaches it's end and your crying for what used to be considered dust haha.

You're an idiot. You shouldn't have "gotten out" in January.

You should have shorted.

Now you'd have 50%+ more fiat. To invest in the "real" digital currency in the future.

Excellent post. Your change in sentiment towards Bitcoin mirrors my own.

Except for one thing. Because The Man will tighten his grip around Bitcoin I believe that no matter how low it goes, it will stay afloat and markets of sort in Bitcoin will continue to persist and slowly grow providing the slither of a backbone of real world economic transactions that any unit of exchange requires to keep it relevant. Once Bitcoin is fully 'owned and patented' by establishment finance, then it will most likely be pumped. Perhaps just in time for the US squeezing some misfortunate nation's balls economically, with Bitcoin offering the essential 'go to' means of capital flight out the country.

I see Bitcoin ultimately as a financial weapon of mass destruction, being set up to be aimed firmly at non-USD compliant nations. Satoshi Nakamoto worked for NSA. PHACT!

Whatever makes Mat turn bull is OK in my book.  ;D

+1

+1 all newbies become pillars of wisdom these days

Who cares if it becomes 50gb? This question is ofcourse one of the major dangers but listen:


50gb means SAFETY. Nobody can steal that wallet from Your PC.

50gb is about 10% of a normal or even small harddrive


And when it becomes 500 gb, who cares? By then we will use Exchanges and apps in another way, we dont have to hold that 500gb on Our pc anymore all we need is for a Companies/banks server to do it for us while maintaining Our Security logging in.

Dear OP,

Thanks for your eloquent and well-articulated post.

Has it not occurred to you that there is a significant amount of capital invested in bitcoin? This capital has been invested by intelligent, knowledgeable and experienced people. While the price is "correcting", this investment is growing month by month.

Has it also not occurred to you that bitcoin is a fluid development? Changes to the protocol and the core code can, and will change, over time? This means that any killer features that may occur in an alt-coin or side-chain can be integrated into bitcoin if they have high enough merit and utility value.

Yes, I agree right now that bitcoin does not scale. If we were to try and put 1000 transactions per second through it then it wouldn't work. Is it impossible in the future to put massive volume through it? I don't think so. It's not an impossible problem to solve.

Does a large blockchain matter? No. Look at wallets like electrum, mycelium, Multibit. I think you may well look back on this post in three years time and regret your decision to cash out. Although in reality, right now you are in a very, very fortunate position. You luckily cashed out at a great time, but you could buy in now with the same amount of fiat that you cashed out in and have double your coins. You could even average in over the next 4-12 weeks and still be sitting on a nice position.

Think about it a little more before seller's remorse sets in. Think about the fundamentals of bitcoin. When it becomes apparent in the next year or two that debt-based fiat currency and quantitative easing will not work long-term, bitcoin will rise and people will gasp and kick themselves for not investing now.

Thanks. Good job! Jr65

If you are only interested in the price then you made a good move getting out in January. Not posting then, or not proving you sold means this thread is a transparent attempt to induce further fear driven selling today. Why? Certainly not to help others 'see the light'. Actually only so you can buy in again lower. Pathetic frankly.

At least Mat actually admits he is here simply to trade the price to gain wealth.

I've been involved in bitcoin since 2010.  Registered on this forum at the same time as "counter" and well before Hunyadi and crocko.  I just don't post a lot.  You made the incorrect assumption that I was new based on my post count.  Hopefully you have not made an incorrect assumption that bitcoin could never ever fail...

@inca
I'm not sitting on the sidelines waiting to go back in with the coins I earned from mining.  That was my intent after getting out in January.  I watched for 2 Months.  In that time I noticed the tight computer driven arbitrage get more apparent on all the major exchanges.  I don't think arbitrage is a bad thing but the price seems to be being propped up by computer driven trading as well which wreaks of manipulation.  Over the last two months we've learned more about MtGox, Russia and China.  As I look around I see lots of downside and very little upside.

Maybe it will recover in a year or two.  If we see some real development happening to make the core code and protocol better.  Maybe...  More likely something better will surface.  Something peer-to-peer and decentralized.  At least that is what history has shown us.

''Maybe it will recover in a year or two.  If we see some real development happening to make the core code and protocol better''

But you gave uss a Final Final warning for long-term holders.....lol.

Sory but youre whole post is just pathetic from a guy who is in from 2010 -.-

I disagree with the centralization comment....

If I had 10 million dollars ASCI, CPU, GPU, fucking 5 1/2 floppy I could afford to be one of the largest miners..  Why was the average person getting so many BTC with such crappy mining gear 4 years ago.. almost no one was mining it and no one rich was mining it...

Primecoin is protected from centralized mining because it is CPU friendly right, right, RIGHT?!?!? Oh I just bought 1000 I7's oh look at that I'm mining 20%.....

it's time for new 2.0 cryptos to step up... http://nxter.org/nxt-solutions-financial-decentralization-financial-freedom/

The future of money, speech and internet - Nxt:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H4HW-TP9RD4

OK, bye.  Putting you on Ignore so I don't have to see the bitter rants of a guy who sold too early.


It's as if you read my mind...

Do you have any proof (and I do mean any) that 650,000BTC were stolen from Mt. Gox and that this occured within the last six months?  I mean real, factual proof.

The MtGox's lost coins, all 650K of them, were not really lost. They were stolen by Mark K and his cohorts over the last few years. The "malleability" hackz never happened, at least at MtGox. It was pure greed that led to the implosion there.

50 GB = 1 full bluray torrent. I download several weekly, nonissue.

Either that, or they disappearo-d during the hack in 2011.  Personally I believe the concept of 650,000 BTC being recently stolen from Mt. Gox and waiting to be dumped on an exchange absolutely foolish and I have trouble giving any credence to people who make this claim.

No proof of course that the 650,000 were stolen.  Based on the facts that are known that seems most likely.  My guess is it was back in 2011.  It could have been multiple hacks over the past 3 years.  Whether it was 1 hack or 10 hacks; in 2011 or 2013 doesn't really matter.  Most likely 1 or more hackers or groups have a lot of coins to get rid of.  They will be very careful to sell slowly and cover their tracks.

If Bitcoin is going to become a real monetary instrument/currency then it will have to even out eventually.  That is, it's won't go up forever.  I'll wait until I see the price is stable for a long time before getting back into Bitcoin.  That price could be $100, or it could be $10,000.  As far as I'm concerned if you're in it for profit, you're just gambling.  If you're in it to make a statement, then you won't mind the price going up or down.

So let me get this straight:

you saw Jr65 make a shitty thread that arrogantly gave a "final warning" as if he had any fucking clue what he was talking about

saw him get reamed in the thread for it

And instead of posting in THAT thread, you arrogantly post ANOTHER "final warning" thread?

Yes, that is what he did. Shitty? You don't even know how to capitalize words or use periods. Go get your G.E.D. You need it, badly!

You were here in 2010? You are a millionaire now, aren't you?

You did buy lots of bitcoin for nothing and sell them all for millions, didn't you?

Please say so. Because that would make me trust your advise a lot more.

If there's no proof, why are you using that as a selling point for your argument? Also: What are these known facts?  I'm trying to be polite in asking for something, anything to back this up, but there appears to be absolutely no concrete evidence that the coins are in fact "missing" in whole, part or otherwise.  Further, it does matter when (if) they were stolen.  

If 650K BTC were stolen in 2011 it'd be well beyond the realm of liklihood that they're still sitting somewhere untouched.  If they were stolen in November of 2013 then that's a hugely different scenario than the allegedly stolen coins being in control of some malicious party in, or since 2011.  You say you were around in 2010, so you're then familiar with the size of walls back then.  Walls in the 10's of thousands cropped up all the time and were worth very little in terms of fiat relative to today.

Are you serious about using this as your reference?

You get a 3 TB drive for the price of a gas fill-up. Most people burn that in less than a week.

it's like Napster? are you sure about that? seems quite different to me....

You give up too easy.

He could use skills like this to strengthen his heart and confidence in his own abilities.

http://cdn.gifbay.com/2013/07/matthew_mcconaughey_being_weird_the_wolf_of_wall_street-65358.gif

I did not get involved in bitcoin to get rich quick.  I figured there was a decent chance that it might yield a very good return but that wasn’t why I decided to get involved when I did.

I’ve been deeply involved in many aspects of computing and technology over the past 30 years.  Sometimes in a business context and sometimes a purely technical context.  We are living within the epoch of the digital revolution and globalization; every bit as transformative to society as Industrial Revolution or Neolithic Revolution.

In the past couple decades we’ve seen how that has transformed media like music, movies, television, and newspapers.  It has also transformed how we shop.  The classic manufacturer, distributor, wholesaler, reseller, retialer model has compacted in most cases to direct or nearly direct to manufacturer.  Communications from land lines to mobile phones and mail to email or other electronic messaging systems.  etc.

None of these are as consequential or as potentially transformational as in the banking and financial areas of society.  It could liberate many people from corrupt and oppressive systems in their own countries.  Based on how the information age impacted those other areas its likely to make it easier to get loans and get a lower rate which should allow more smart hard working people a better chance at prosperity.

Good things that I was happy to help support and will continue to do so.

It's ironic that bitcoin FUDers even post in this forum. The fact that you are thinking about bitcoin enough to even go out of your way to post in a bitcoin thread means that even the FUDers are still obsessed with bitcoin enough that they want back in. The fact that you're spending time here means deep down you really DO still believe in bitcoin. You don't find too many atheists in church every Sunday morning.

Also when I read the coindesk articles (comment section)
there are people (mainly people who never heard of bitcoin) say stupid things like bitcoin is a ponzi and then below him is a more experienced member (who know about bitcoin) who corrects them and counters their point successfully.

I sold out with same concerns as Opening Post. Length and exponential growth of blockchain etc. and bought some physical gold and silver.

Since then I've decided bitcoin may end up being centralised yet there may be big profit still to be had riding the bitcoin bull for a few more years, therefore I've bought back in, with a bit less than I had before. However I will periodically use bitcoin profit to add  physical precious metals.

I think bankers will switch to supporting bitcoin the more controlled it gets so I see it as a safe bet for profit but not the utopian end of central banking we all dream of.

Physical gold and silver are what I prefer in the end. Physical silver (not gold) is real money all through history and it is the Achilles heel of the financial system. In the meantime I am still open minded about the possibility of bitcoin and fairly certain there are huge profits to be made.. but fearful it could turn against us.