Bitcoin Forum

http://finance.caixin.com/2014-04-25/100670605.html

• PBOC requires commercial banks and 3rd party processors to cease services dealing indirectly with BTC. E.g. OKCoin alternative recharge channel, Alipay, etc.
• The only remaining banks offering BTC services (Bank of China; China Merchants Bank, BTCChina and Huobi) must immediatly close their fiat deposit channels
• Bitcoin exchanges (and their banks) must halt BTC to cash withdrawal. Read: Fiat withdrawal channel.
• Alipay has already terminated all services dealing with Bitcoin (as of April 24).

Update (April 26)

http://www.weibo.com/2149945883/B1wQbdDTM?mod=weibotime

Shut up.

Banks...not government.

Edited

Translation sucks balls, i can't read this thing.

What about bank transfers for example in BTC China? BTC China was not touched by any notice from PBoC, so what about now? Are CNY bank deposits halted now?

Updated official Caixin link. Feel free to use your own translator. Google sucks balls.

So predictable...

May 10 is the final final final final final final ban...honest.

Okay, the correct translation is this: Central bank bans fiat deposits AND withdrawals (cash), effectively killing all fiat channels related to BTC.

I'll have a translated version soon. Stay tuned

Is that not what they aimed to do on the first ban?

1st ban was ban fiat deposit via bank transfer and 3rd party processors directly related to BTC payment.
2nd ban is ban fiat deposit via bank transfer, cash withdrawal, 3rd party processors directly and indirectly (read: coupons, vouchers, prepaid cards, OKCoin "bypass" methods) related to BTC payment. But this time it is a definite ban (lol)

In the most basic terms, they're doing everything they can to kill all fiat channels in/out of BTC. In other words, China will be out of the game extremely soon. There will be no more capital flowing in China markets soon, people will want to withdraw ASAP.

Amazing how you just show up out of the blue to enlighten us with this news, just as the price is going down!  Uncanny the timing!  

I'm so glad that you are not affiliated with those idiot troll day traders that have to make up FUD in order to get the price drop that they need to make a quick buck a few days from now.  I'm sure that no one in China will buy a single bitcoin after today, as the charts will clearly show.


/sarcasm
 ::)

Didn't a Chinese bank official earlier state that it's impossible to ban btc? I guess this could really slow down the market there, but I don't think they can kill it off completely.

I don't think you realize how severe the consequences of Caixin news can have on BTC price.

If the news are true and they ban fiat withdrawal channel, most Chinese traders will have NO CHOICE but to withdraw in the small window between NOW and MAY 10 at the highest price they can sell their BTC off


They never planned to ban BTC as a commodity trading item. Never.

On May 10th there will be another rally, just like April 15th.  ;D

Dream on. Article clearly states that the Central bank emphasizes that fiat withdrawal channel must be halted. Who will pump BTC? Huobi always led the rallies.

now is time for exchanges to move offshore completely

I was just being being sarcastic, as on all previous China deadline dates either nothing happened (Jan 31st) or it rallied (April 15th). I wouldn't be surprised if the Chinese manipulators did this again with their fake volume.

Why would you need to withdraw fiat when you can hold BTC and use the Xapo debit card anywhere MasterCard is accepted?  That card should be usable in most larger locations in China.

http://techcrunch.com/2014/04/24/xapo-now-offers-the-first-credit-card-linked-to-your-bitcoin-wallet/

This has got to be another hoax. Someone was bored with the stability.

look at the price plummet as a result of this news.....

Yeah, this is ugly

Still in confounds of channel - supsecting slight retrace up now. https://i.imgur.com/BzeHhG1.png

If we fall below $420-$440 Support Zone on Stamp, thing will get ugly. (Targets then: $305, $250).

Again, thanks to Halczy from Reddit who kindly translated the news into readeable English.. OP has been updated

Banks = Government in China

And by the way...

Fuck China, or more specifically the bullshit corrupt Chinese Government.



Every bitcoiner should be extremely happy.  China will be out of the game soon.

troll

The real question is: What will be the next Chinese workaround?

They already have a bitcoin ATM, maybe people will finally start using them causing, a definate need for ATMs. But then again, maybe they will ban them as well.
We can always set up internet-based shops outside China that can convert a product order into a fiat recharge in an exchange. Kinda like selling crack under the counter in a sigaretshop :D

Anyway every ban will be countered with a workaround. BTC is too strong :D

China consumes and produces far too much than deemed to be insignificant. All exchanges follow China. As much as we all hate the corrupt, rotten, brutal and communist Chinese dictatorship, the Chinese working poor would be better off with BitCoin. So to see BTC fail in China will be anything but good.

Those workaround is a deterrent to big money.

All exchanges follow China because they are idiots. A lot of websites already claimed that they won't publish or take into account data from huobi and okcoin because . what do you know. their volume is soooo fake.

Also , actual use of Bitcoin in China is indeed insignificant.

BitCoin is full of haters. That's why so many switched to DogeCoin. Also dumb, but a lot more charming community.

That's why the Dogecoin price dropped too.

Amazing how news like this can break just as Huobi looks to break out of the channel to the upside.
Not that Caixin have a source with a position or anything but.

I wouldn't blame the Chinese officials for this mess. Those who are to blame are the Chinese exchanges, who are trying to evade the laws and desperately trying to keep their business going
Chinese officials said their stance already in December, that they don't want to see any business activity involving bitcoin. Now they are gradually toughening the laws until everyone finally catches the drift. It's the greedy owners of houbi, btcchina and okcoin, who are trying to pretend that everything is ok and there is nothing to worry about. This is the reason why there is so much confusion on the subject. Those who paid attention, know from December, that the markets in China are running on borrowed time. An efficient market would have reacted strongly on this information, not jump back on-board every time Leon Li and Bobby Lee tell that they have a good feeling that everything will be ok.

+1

all these bans. they affect the man in the street. not the man in wall st.

china be buyin' the govt doesn't want competition from its citizens ;)

No.

Stop falling for this BS from China. They are clearly making these announcements (if they are even real) to manipulate the market. They were supposed to ban it by Chinese New Year (end of January) then at the last minute had an announcement saying they changed their mind. This has happened several times now, with them reversing course a few days later. Obviously they are making these announcements to get cheap Bitcoins and then sell them a few days later when the price rises due to reversal. See the following article:

http://www.survivalmonkey.com/threads/who-is-benefiting-from-all-these-china-bitcoin-rumors.46316/

Bitcoin is one of the purest forms of market capitalism and communist China is using it to make fools of Americans. Wise up people!! You were smart enough to buy BTC in the first place, stop falling for this blatant manipulation. China has already created plenty of problems for the mainstream American economy. I thought Bitcoiners were smarter than the average sheeple.

Chinese authorities don't manipulate the price, they just want to ban bitcoin, but they know they can't.
Instead, they are choking the exchanges to death, which isn't much of a problem in this bear market,
because not much new fiat was entering the exchanges anyway, but would make the next bull market
unable to sustain growth. So smart money moves out of China now, in anticipation of worse to come.

This is actually kind of funny  ;)

Remember what Buffet says? .. secretly buying BTC :)

Can't agree more.  I check out the speculation forum for anything interesting, and all I ever see is one of these retards talking about China every other week.
The new rule for every time something is posted about China should be for the op to be committed to a mental institution, since there is clearly something wrong with the mental processes of these people. 

US government and wallstreet should get in that  fake news manipulation scheme ASAP!
Dont you guys agree?

What next? banning p2p trade by stating it illegal?

forwarding news = being retarded

let me guess you're a permabull who doesnt want to face the truth

why is btc even worth more than $200 now? one word: china!

theres a reason why western price is coupled with huobi. china is too important for btc.

I don't care, I've made money every time asshats like you talk about China.  It is probably my only saving grace when to comes to my bitcoin decisions.
It is getting out of control though that people like you sit there with diarrhea of the mouth, trying to scam people out of their bitcoins every other day.
I face the truth every day, and have had very little faith in bitcoin for a while now. 
I'll have some faith again when I don't see market crashes every time someone post about China.

Weird. If you seriously think my word on the speculation forum has any effect on the market book, you're delusional. I'm just reporting the news, that's all. In no way am I trying to "scam" people out of their btcs, lol

In fact im probably more morally correct than those permabulls who spam "to da moon", "last chance to hop on the train" everytime theres a little spike on huobi even if were in a long term down trend in a market with no new capital flow etc

http://www.weibo.com/2149945883/B1wQbdDTM?mod=weibotime


Fiat deposit completely frozen for BTCChina now*

I believe someone already said "Shut up".

-B-

Who cares? Ban it already. China is just repeating the whole 'isolation' mentality that impeded their growth for a good 1000 years.
Besides, communist ideology and 'big brother" mentality is incompatible with long term innovation.
As a result, more and cheaper BTC for us and cheaper miners as well.
Perhaps, China is about to crash hard and that's why authorities are closing any possibility for the capital flight.
Rich chinese simply will have to go to Macau to get rid of yuans for dollars.

Thats also true. Things not going well in China


ill shut up after china is done with btc

It's times like these where Bitcoin cultists show their true colors.

Deposits will soon be removed from the Chinese exchanges, users will have some time to withdraw their funds, and this story will be behind us.  Until ALL the Chinese exchanges stop doing business, this will continue to drag on.  Can't blame them for trying what they can to continue on, but at some point enough is enough.  They aren't allowed to accept RMB (CNY), and there is no financial innovation they can use to avoid it.

The future for China is a decentralized exchange which matches buyers/sellers and is hosted off-shore.  The exchange will not touch fiat currency, only BTC.  The BTC will be held in escrow as one party sends money to the other.  When both parties agree that the Alipay / bank transfer has been received by the BTC seller, the BTC will be released to the buyer's address which they provided before-hand.

This business model is effectively impossible for China to regulate and will eventually lead to a full-out ban on Bitcoin.  However, such a ban will be very difficult to enforce.

Watch them dump their coins  ;D ;D ;D

^^ Your model is probably the only solution left for Chinese exchanges. a localbitcoins-like exchange.

Again, there's a few problems with the original exchange model (HK-hosted, transfer to HK)

1. Max limit of $50K transfer to HK exchanges yearly per citizen
2. Immediate 4% loss on any order/transfer between mainland / offshore (CNY conversion) (this is enormous!)

Therefore it will be very tricky for the exchanges to bypass #2, unless they somehow find a way to do Escrow between citizens in mainland. And if they do find a solution, the workaround will prob. be banned again.

Even with this solution, capital input with greatly be reduced (localbitcoins), as they just trade BTC between themselves. There's no new fresh money entering the market. To withdraw, you must find a buyer. To buy, you lose 4% off the bat

It's a really fucked up situation up there

After they all dump, we'll probably finally decouple from Huobi and return to pre-China bubble price (with the addition of new western infrastructure)

This thread is living in the Stone Age:
The BTC market has already adjusted to China, and the short-term bottom was over 2 weeks ago.

Good news from China will make the market very Bullish (news from other places can do the same)
How much more power does the bad news have?

I think you've misinterpreted the business model for a decentralized Chinese exchange.  China has much more advanced Person-to-Person payment methods than the Western world.  People can make instant, irreversible transfers through Alipay for a few cents, and all you need to pay money to another person is their Alipay number. 

This "exchange" does not touch the fiat currency.  It is sent directly from buyer to seller.  The exchange simply matches buyers and sellers, and once a deal has been arranged they hold the BTC in escrow.  The BTC could be uploaded beforehand to save time, and be held on accounts, but this is not essential. 

When the exchange confirms that the BTC is in escrow, they provide the buyer with the seller's Alipay number.  The buyer now sends the money via Alipay to the seller.  Ideally, the buyer/seller are acting in good faith.  Once seller has received the money, the seller confirms this and the BTC is released to the buyer.

The exchange will be responsible for dispute resolution and will take a fee from the BTC being held.  The exchange will NOT be hosted in China, and therefore will not be breaking any laws.  It can be hosted in Australia for all it matters.  Just can't be on Chinese soil, since it would be shut down.

The "exchange" should record successful transactions and give +1 feedback for each successful transaction done by a buyer/seller.  Conversely, they should give -1 point for any party which enters a transaction and does not fulfill their end of the deal.  Fraudulent usage of the dispute system should result in a "Trade with caution" status on a user's profile.  Prevent users from signing up with the same Alipay number on multiple accounts.

Timber  ;D ;D

This is actually good news for the long term. Good riddance, China.

Did the possibility even occur to you that there is another way to withdraw money from the exchange? Hint: This isn't the same as the stock exchange where you would lose your money should the fiat channel be closed because you can't get your stocks out.

Since you say "NO CHOICE" (sic) I am wondering if you have even a basic understanding of Bitcoin.

That would be beautiful.

Absolutely, and it would be much easier to use than Localbitcoins.  Localbitcoins' main downside is that the most commonly accepted payment methods are not processed online.  The buyer must either go to a bank and deposit cash into the seller's account, or meet them in person.  Either way, you can't sit down at your desk and buy a Bitcoin.  That makes the process much more tedious.

In this model, the buyer does not need to leave his desk.  By trading a reputable online seller, a buyer is able to buy Bitcoins in minutes.  Likely even more quickly than they can right now (it takes ~1 hour for money to hit exchanges in China through bank transfer atm).

Once someone has Bitcoins in their wallet, they can take them to any exchange and trade.  You can trade Bitcoin on BTC-e / Bitstamp / Cryptsy in China, so long as you have Bitcoins.  The "exchange" we are speaking of (which is actually more of an escrow than an exchange) is only used for cashing in / out of Bitcoin.  Anyone looking to speculate on BTC price / day trade should bring their coins to an off-shore Bitcoin exchange.

The passive aggressive reaction to unwelcome news, the jerkish attitude to the messenger bearing said news (sorry y3804), and the pure bile poured over China and the Chinese in this thread (and the forum in general)  is nothing short of depressing.

Grow up, Bitcoin investors. You didn't whine when China pushed us to 1000+, so now that they put in the reverse gear, you should bear* it with some dignity as well.


* yea, couldn't resist the pun, sorry :)

+1

What is frustrating is the lack reliable information. In the future we maybe look back and think "well, they did give us a fair warning". Another thing I find interesting is that last week there were multiple failed attempts on the Chinese exchanges to drive the price up. The way the Chinese bulls were held down did not look natural to me and I think they failed was because the western exchanges did not really follow. So the resent drop is in my opinion because of failed attempts to raise the price and because of bad news. This week I think that quite a few people on the Western exchanges got caught around $480-$490 (before the bad news), and these people seem to be holding like champs. To me is another indication that Stamp is currently leading. Unless we get more bad news I think the price will slowly go up from here. I would be interested to hear if you agree or disagree with this analysis.

I guess it's the attitude and the glee of the messenger. I mean, what are people even doing here if they share Krugman's opinions about Bitcoin?

And frankly, these guys are getting boring and irritating - I read this BS *every* time in a bear market. But so far, every bear market has been a bear trap.

Agreed...if it is to be believed that these threads are not being pushed so as to manipulate the market then i assume that y307.954 and his other mates will turn bullish or (support bitcoin) once they have a fill price they are happy with or

They are just permamnent assholes .....why dont you just fuck off out of our community ..instead of continually trying to what "DESTROY" crypto .. is this teh right word ??? because really i dont get what your purpose here is ??

If you hate crypto so much ..theres the door -> take you negative chinese shit & mastubate on chat roulette ... I am a bit over buying the same donkey time & time again with the chicken little chinese FUD

 :P

You said it...
Wait...I still want cheap miners-0.619 BTC ($1.57/GH/s). Can anybody else, but chinese have such prices-of course, not.
With that said, who cares if recharging is banned in the mainland when they can transfer 50K/year to HK. I don't think that anybody except top 0.01-0.1% are investing more than that yearly in BTC. No problem.

Biodom - exactly!  :)

There is 1000 million Chinese. If only 1 million Chinese transfers 50k per year to HK and buys BTC, that would be $50 000 000 000 per year; far more than enough.

Plus the local trades and the shadow banking and many other avenues; there are trillions of bored capital in China and if Chinese WANT they will find a way

Question is, do they still want it? Probably...there is just too much liquidity, the PBOC cannot stop this long term.

Let me explain why the $50K / year limit is largely irrelevant to Chinese Bitcoin users.

#1 - Chinese citizens will still need to wire this money to an exchange after converting it.  PBOC will likely ban international wires to popular BTC exchanges.  Cutting off BTC-e, Kraken, Bitstamp, etc. would not be difficult.  By announcing that banks cannot be used to send money to Bitcoin exchanges, they could even potentially pull back wires which have been received by Bitcoin exchanges from Chinese bank accounts.

#2 - Chinese are using Bitcoin to avoid currency controls.  The people who really need Bitcoin have used up their limits in FOREX ($50k/year)

#3 - International wires cost money ($40 each on average), and are difficult to send.  You must physically go to a bank, wait in line (China lines, they're long as hell), and fill out all the information for the receiver.  It's a complicated process, especially when someone has not sent a wire before.  Right now, Chinese citizens can fund their exchange accounts with a few clicks of their mouse.

If the best option for someone in China is going to the bank, converting CNY to foreign currency, and sending a wire to a Bitcoin exchange, then the Chinese system is crippled in a big way.  These guys are used to 1 hour online deposits and 0% fees.

The level of denial here is amusing.

Look. China has exchange controls. Exchanging yuan for currencies outside China is restricted. For a brief time last fall, Bitcoin was a safe, easy way around those restrictions. That caused the Bitcoin runup from $100 to $1000. Then the People's Bank of China (equivalent to the U.S. Treasury plus the Fed) decided to shut that down. They issued clear guidance to that effect. Some Bitcoin enthusiasts, both inside and outside China, didn't get the message. The PBOC gradually took stronger measures. Now they're issuing direct orders to individual banks not to deal with Bitcoin, directly or indirectly.

There are still some people here fantasizing that the shutdown isn't happening. Get real.

Or, is the banks of China controlled by a Central bank that is controlled by IMF and Worldbank that is controlled by USA/Rothschilds/FED?

And the state News just don't Reach us in the west?

Could be, as far as I know, cuz I can't Reach chinese newspapers :(

PBOC is quite independent of the IMF, WorldBank, or the USA/Rothschilds/Feds. Only in the fertile imaginations of conspiracy theorists, if you ask me, and I DO have a very suspicious mind.

I respect your opinion, but this is a new technology. Chinese nerds get just as excited about it as American nerds. Nothing is going to stop Chinese people from finding a way to get into Bitcoin.

Alright. I do see though how FEDs would want americans to claim BTC before anyone else though, and from there my thoughts awoke :)

Dream on. They can't even get into Google, Facebook, or Youtube. (http://ieeeitss.org/unsubscribe.html)

I would not be at all surprised if the Great Firewall of China started blocking Bitcoin wallet traffic.

Coinffeine. The exchange is distributed.

They can with a VPN. They don't necessarily want to because Weibo is more useful for a chinese than Facebook. But there is no chinese version of Bitcoin.

Just like American users have to wire funds to foreign Bitcoin exchanges, no difference there.

Of course it is more difficult and that is why BTC is 400, not 1200.

Your logic is circular. If banning BTC is just to prevent capital flight, then there is no reason for PBOC to worry about wires to exchanges, as long as the 50K limit is enforced (because that, according to you, is the entire reason for the ban).  ;)

i think there are only few insiders who know exactly what's going on... i doubt this ban was due to capital controls.. because the volume is miniscule to even affect yuan's stability and price of bitcoin would've fluctuated wildly across various exchanges due to buying and selling to move funds across(buy here, dump there, buy there, dump here)... also it's easy for PBOC to see how much money is going in and going out of exchange's accounts since every transaction is documented locally unlike offshore exchange. Now if this was all cash transactions then this ban wouldn't have any effect since all you do is bring suitcase full of yuans and start purchasing bitcoins, but then that kind of operation would've been shutdown without warnings by now...

anyway capital controls can easily be circumvented via all kinds of accounting tricks, overinvoicing, shady money exchangers, triads and etc.. if chinese currency controls were that effective you wouldn't see property bubbles mainly driven by wealthy chinese or countries granting citizenships to chinese with at least USD 1 million in cash. Illegal capital flight is unstoppable because it's the politburo itself that's corrupt to the core and needs it. Most of the middle class families too try to emigrate for better future but their amount is small to even acknowledge it as a problem. i personally don't know the exact reason but it just seems to me some kind of regulatory movement by PBOC and manipulators are simply taking advantage of that by creating more fud... it could be be a blessing in disguise since there are so many offshore places to resume trading.. look at btce that already started CNH trading pair...

also if illegal capital really went to bitcoin, we would've had ath of at least 10,000 usd or more and not 1000 since the amount of illicit money waiting to get out of china is humongous i don't think even exchange volume would've been enough to cover that... anyway that november climb to 1000 usd was purely due to clever manipulative trades that were possible due to 0 fees...  if you notice dumps are only localized if this was true panic you'd see big red candles on btce and bitstamp daily...  :D but so far all i see tall red candles mostly on local chinese exchanges so that tells me coins are staying and it's just to create illusion of panic...