Bitcoin Forum

HashFast Technologies is happy to announce our agreement with Bitcoin ASIC Hosting's large hosting clients to convert their order into chips rather than systems. This allows us to deliver their product immediately and provides much higher hashing capacity than originally purchased. This frees up our order chain and will help us service the rest of our customers much sooner.
   
In addition, long-time Bitcointalk.org forum member Dalkore with BitcoinASICHosting.com has recently provided outside input on improving our external communications.  This is to address outstanding community issues and provide outside testing and support documentation for the new Yoli Board using our Golden Nonce Chip (TM). 

Hello Bitcoin,

I want to confirm that in the last few weeks I have been talking extensively with Eduardo (C.E.O. of Hashfast Technologies) to understand and give outside feedback on ideas to address delivery and communication issues.   Outside of almost daily emails, we have had two-hours of in-depth discussions where I could really ask frank questions and get a good feel for what happened, ways to improve and the future.

I can attest that Eduardo is truly concerned with the current situation and really wants to move forward and make good on expectations set forth before.  He has demonstrated his commitment in this first step and assured me going forward things will be different.  I know many will be frustrated and I understand, I did my part as a member in the Bitcoin mining community to help get certainty for everyone.   Before I even started this process, I spent two days reading every comment I could (good & bad) to get a feel for the major issues so please know I care and did not rush into this.  I know I am taking a risk here but I do care about other miners and thought it was the right decision regardless on the reception this announcement gets.

In closing, we have been in constant communication with their engineering department and have independently tested their 3rd generation board design.  For testing we took their reference numbers and other data points and have confirmed their validity under this current design and have reproduced them, along with having some running as we write with no change.   We will be releasing this information soon along with support documentation we developed while going through this process.    We are also working with Hashfast to flesh out a new product design to increase density and performance.



Sincerely,

Dalkore
www.bitcoinasichosting.com (http://www.bitcoinasichosting.com)

Greetings, I am long time friends and business partners with Dalkore; we've started www.bitcoinasichosting.com.  We started this business during our first groupbuy of the Avalon Batch 3s and have strived provide excellent service for our clients ever since.  We've learned that mining conditions and adequate power to matter over everything.

We have many clients who have invested in Hashfast and updated us on their positions.  Understanding the delays naturally we were skeptical when approached by Hashfast directly.

The bottom line is that getting support documentation and testing figures for these units from an external source (us) will be beneficial for the mining community as a whole.

StringTheory

Fuck you, Hashfast_CL ... deleting posts already.

About the only way you can make up the lost value to me - the differences between your promises and reality (i.e. "make good on expectations set forth before") - will be to host, for free, about 6-7 terahashes.  With every day that goes by without delivery, that number goes up.  

(Edit:  Oh wait.  And then there was the upgrade card, still undelivered.  Make that about 8-10 terahashes, off the top of my head.  I suppose it could be calculated.  If Batch 1 had shipped on time, if the upgrades had shipped, and the f*%*#ing MPP delivered in some reasonable timeframe.  You know, the MINER PROTECTION PROGRAM, remember that joke? Edward and Simon's pledge to protect me against network hashrate increases !!!???)

And while you failed to ship, CoinTerra shipped thousands and thousands of machines. Which Hashfast tried to deny and deride, childishly "showing off" their one (1) functioning "Yoli" miner in Austin.  As if it made it a difference.  Losers.

And your e-mailed "apology" to your customers is still denying key aspects of reality. Metaphorically-speaking, Edward and Simon need to have the shit beaten out of them, repeatedly, until they really acknowledge how badly they have fucked up and present a real plan for making amends that meets the approval of a substantial majority of Hashfast's victims.

It doesn't matter if they produce a handful of "Yoli" boards, and give "some" to Dalkore to evaluate.  What difference does that make?  Documentation?  WTF, String Theory?  That won't make one rat's ass of difference to Hashfast's customers, unless HF moves to host petahashes for free for their early batch customers.  Now.

What a disaster.  Edward and Simon, I for one intend to follow your careers and remind your future employers and investors of what you have done.

It's hard to take anything HF says seriously. Eduardo and Simon need to put on their big boy flame pants and address questions personally. Get on the forums or attend meetups and show they are personally accountable and taking real action instead of lip service emails every few months.

There is an announcement that does this.  Coming very soon.  If you can be patient for a short time, everyone will know more.  I didn't know anything 3 weeks ago.  I advocated them getting information to the community.  That is the reason I am involved.   Something has to happen, wouldn't you agree?

-D

I gave up trying to engage with this company, didn't seem interested in how they were rated within the community.

Yes, but how does engaging in some sort of nonbinding discussion (all of 2 hours!) with Eddie and him providing "some" units to you to evaluate make any difference to hundreds of customers who should have received petahashes of power many months ago?  Please specifically explain.  "Documentation" doesn't cut it.

Really.  What's your economic interest in this?  You have "some" boards that likely are more rightly the property of others.  You are apparently set to receive a large number of chips which, I presume, you will use.  I have an unfilled Batch 2 order and the MPP from Batch 1. You say you are doing good for the community, but how, specifically?  That's not sarcasm, it's a real request for an explanation, with specifics.

Can't this really be interpreted as just another person, like the Garret the Teenager, who Hashfast Eddie, the Adult, makes some pledge to, and who then comes forward to testify on Hashfast's behalf, and in the end it amounts to nothing for Hashfast's customers?

This is a self moderated thread.   I will start another thread that will be open for debate instead of open for deletion.
My initial thoughts are that a company that has unresolved debts owing to people really should not be giving certain parties more than they are entitled to.   Receivers do not look kindly to that.    But I am sure the receiver will have a LOT of areas to pursue when they get in there and start demanding documentation.   If I was ever in need of a user name, I would be doing a lot of research on the rights of creditors before putting more money on the table.   

Personally, i have been repeatedly lied to by HF in order to elicit my order and some of these are easy to prove (I was told the same delivery timetable that many others were told and when someone gets the actual order schedule from the foundry, this should be easily proven to be a fraudulent sales practice that was institutionalized (since everyone I have spoken to was told THE EXACT SAME THING).

I think it is in everyone's interest to continue to tell their experiences to the Attorney General of CA and to join the filing we plan to make which we will discuss in another thread.

Hope you don't mind:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=585218.msg6403456#msg6403456

Good and fair questions.   Thank you, I'll explain below so you at least understand my position, why and motivation for even being involved.


Yes, but how does engaging in some sort of nonbinding discussion (all of 2 hours!) with Eddie and him providing "some" units to you to evaluate make any difference to hundreds of customers who should have received petahashes of power many months ago?

The first time my and "Eddie" talked was because my client is a customer of Hashfast and has been waiting since Oct 2013.  Up until that point I only talked to a couple engineers.  We were testing this new board design and through this I voiced many concerns and told them if Eduardo wanted to hear my opinion to call me, he did call.  The first things out my mouth were questions about why the delay and silence which I told him it was unacceptable.  He then told me details on what the issues were and then asked for advice on his plan to try and make the situation right if not at least better than it currently is which has been little.  My thought was if I could advocate communication and telling people why along with a plan to solve it, that would be better for everyone, I hope we can agree that is better than nothing.  Maybe I am wrong here but I wanted to help because I knew the frustration my customer was having and I read all your comments so I know many more did as well.  Please specifically explain.

Also my financial gain in this situation is only being a good vendor to my client.  Every else I am doing because it is the right thing to do, nothing more, nothing less.
 
"Documentation" doesn't cut it.

Of course not, this was just an area I didn't see enough information.   The next major announcement will hopefully be something that will be a positive step.

Really.  What's your economic interest in this?  

Just my client's hardware order since Oct 2013.  That is how I even got in touch with anyone at Hashfast.  Outside of that I may have solicited an email asking about hosting, nothing came of it.

You have "some" boards that likely are more rightly the property of others.

He (my client) has been in line like everyone else.  That characterization of me personally is unfair, I wanted this hardware order shipped back in Oct.

You are apparently set to receive a large number of chips which, I presume, you will use.

This order is a Batch 1 & 2 order just so you know.  

I have an unfilled Batch 2 order and the MPP from Batch 1. You say you are doing good for the community, but how, specifically?  That's not sarcasm, it's a real request for an explanation, with specifics.

The main thing I have asked for that I "know" is helping is two-fold.  1)  Level with the community, admit your mistake and take your lumps  2) Address the compensation issue period.

I hope people can say that is what needs to happen like right now?   I hope that if someone else was in the position as an outsider to try and push this forward, THEY WOULD DO IT.  Well I was in that position and I did, you can flame "me" all you want but I did what I could to help.   Even if people are not satisfied, I hope they think the through counted.  I didn't need to waste my time but I chose too.


Can't this really be interpreted as just another person, like the Garret the Teenager, who Hashfast Eddie, the Adult, makes some pledge to, and who then comes forward to testify on Hashfast's behalf, and in the end it amounts to nothing for Hashfast's customers?

If you are comparing me to them, then you are not paying attention.   People know me, I ain't perfect but I am competent and I don't go around trying to screw people.  If you think it would of been better if I said nothing and did ask for anything, then I think you are in a minority group because others have said "thank you" and "good job".  

In closing, I am going to push for the next statement to be released so people can get more informed on what is next.


Thoughts,
Dalkore

This is just pathetic. Sorry Dalkore, but it doesn't really work this way. You can't come out of no where and start defending the indefensible position hashfast holds.

They lied. They mislead. They almost definitively self mined from January, they shipped one tenth of what CT shipped. They lied to the very face of their customers. Repeatedly. They lied to the office of the AG. Systematically.

They are not changing, they are not trying to make things round, they never will. They are buying time, as they always did.

It's pathetic. But it's an expected move. You can't just hold your hands while the office of your ag gets filled up with referenced complaints against your illegal practices.

I'm looking forward for the deletion of this message - I will take it as an acknowledgement from HF of how ridiculous they are.

And in the case this post wasn't to be removed, feel free to sit back waiting for vague excuses and not a shadow of a valid compensation. Because that is what you are gonna get. It's not HashFast's fault. It's their contractors fault. See?

+1

Why does this smell like HashFast customers are being prepared for something similar to KNC's Plan B?

I suspect that the masterplan for all outstanding orders is that they will be "converted" to hosted mining with this other company.

Am I alone in thinking this?

Please show me the evil in that, because i barely see it. Willingly or not, that's where bitcoin mining is headed. Economies of scale told me so. The only thing that could save us from that is if the number of people willing to lose money mining has more to invest than those agglomerates, that is highly unlikely.

I am not defending their actions at all.  They were downright poor and I don't do business like that   All I am saying is I mentioned to someone at HF while troubleshooting their hardware, that their customer situation was bad and if that wanted some real advice, call me. 

I don't defend lying or misleading.  What I am saying is real mistakes were made and in the next announcement which should be very soon (hello?) will at least clear the air and a plan (not saying it is the best or makes things 100% round) has been worked out and this is serious.  This is all I am saying, the main reason I even agreed to do this is because I am being affected and I know people like this group would decry it no matter what and I am just saying they told me it is real and the details.

Dalkore,

Your first order of business should be to see that HashFast_CL gets terminated. He will undo any progress you make in improving the situation.

FYI - I am not a contractor for Hashfast.  Just to be clear.

I agree, the tone taken from a representative was unprofessional to say the least.   While I read through these posts I swear somehow BFL_Josh was running PR for both companies. 

So still no full bitcoin refunds?

Dalkore.  StringTheory.  Cypherdoc.

"We're bitcoiners just like yourselves, and we're here to help."

still dont get anything better by that update about refunds.

That's sad.. It doesn't matter at this point. HF should be refunding everyone and then some.. Fuck Edward, How many people's lives as he touched in a negative way?? People purchased units with the hope of getting some ROI. Instead, they have been given absolutely nothing.

@Dalkore,

while I do believe company should in general have second chances I find that the 99% of the time they fil just like on their first chance. As much as I would like to believe hashfast has changed and eduardo really feels bad and wants to improve the reputation of the company there comes a tipping point where once its hit it becomes the point of no return. I believe there are many reasons why we hit this point and why I am sure we are far past the point. One example is I know of not one hashfast customer who is happy with them. This could be due to me not knowing to many customers but from everything I have read i have no seen one.

You mentioned you have read the thread which is good, Id also recommend you to read all of the blog posts as well as the hashfast twitter feed. Eventually you should notice as cedivad said that they have a pattern of lies follow by blaming someone else followed by a new lie. Also some of the lies have been erased as well from the twitter account so you may not see all of them. A great example is of a lie is the MPP. The MPP according to hashfast we always supposed to be delivered after the dead line which was january so basically they promised to deliver it in june. They then changed this to January because everyone complained as this was not how the MPP read or how it sounded. Yes you may think that was so nice of them, but its now nearly May and guess where the MPP is nowhere to be found. And guess what the last newsletter said relating to the MPP. It said sorry but your going to get the MPP in June.

Also I would make eduardo aware that giving users 2 Yoli Evo boards in june as the MPP instead of the promised 4 babyjet boards is the exact way a company would screw over there customers. I don't know if the 2 yoli evo boards is true or not, but I have a direct message on twitter from hashfast that tells me the MPP will be that. Also so you know the MPP was a promised 1.6 Terahashes or more. If you look on their site and skim through you will see the 2 yoli evo boards do 800ghash each which sounds right, but I would recommend you read the site closely so you can see the smaller text that hashfast is more/less trying to hide that says "Typical Bitcoin Mining Performance:  675 GH/" which is way less then the promised 1.6 terahashes.

So dalklore, I thank you for coming and attempting to help us out, but you can tell eduardo that if he wants to start making promises good he can start by making the MPP's "Typical Bitcoin Mining Performance" at least 1.6 Terahashes. Once he can fulfill one promise then maybe customers would give him a chance to fulfill another or maybe he can fulfill the promise that was to ship the MPP in January as promised.


Edit: Sorry forgot to mention about the now mass reselling hashfast is doing. I am not sure what you know so far, but from my understanding hashfast can not sell many if any products do to there ruined reptuation so the majority is being done by new sites popping up that are simply reselling hashfast products in new casing. The products that could be going to their batch 1 customers who were promised their MPP months ago.

Feel free to PM or email me and I can tell you any information you would like to know.

WTH Is 1.6TH going to do at this point?

What I will be interested in seeing is whether after the court appoints a receiver (assuming HF can be forced into bankruptcy) what actions will be taken against customers that received preferential treatment/deals etc. at the expense of other customers.
I know from reading other cases that with cash or securities, all the money would be taken back and then redistributed but what about something like this?   Obviously, Dalkore's customer is getting more economic benefit than other customers in the same position are receiving (at this point we are all creditors of this company).
I would think that a person with a large order (let's call it a $1M order for over 250 Sierras for argument's sake) would spend $20,000 on a good lawyers opinion about what would happen if other creditors that DID NOT get any preferential treatment put this company into bankruptcy before spending more money trying to salvage something from the first investment.
Have you done that to make sure you are within the law?

Well taken points.  I have known about this order since ~Oct 2013 (need to get exact date from old emails).  From what I can tell we are early enough so that it would not be shown that we have gotten preferential treatment and I would add that if you knew what I am having to do, it is quite a bit more work and expense than originally expected.   We have waited months like everyone else, nothing odd their, just frustrating. 

Honestly I was surprised we decided to go this route all together. 


-D

I am not pretending I know the answer to that question, just suggesting you find out.   Getting more than you put in is sometimes considered preferential treatment and you are getting many more chips than you originally paid for and one could argue that some of those chips are mine since I paid for them...   That was my point.   Pay a lawyer and ask him though.  I am guessing and was surprised by this article (not that actual article I read but same point and I cannot surf around to find the one).
http://consumerist.com/2010/03/01/some-madoff-victims-will-have-to-pay-the-money-back/

stop your boring announcements and start talking to your customers and answer their support requests
I'll NEVER got an answer from hashlate only automated responses

thats obviously a lie!!! 

@dalkore is that true that you got more chips that paid for?

What are you going to be doing with all those chips? :) Check out sig :)