|
Title: Question for First Pirate Savings and Trust Post by: fgmnp on January 13, 2012, 11:18:45 AM d
Title: Re: Question for First Pirate Savings and Trust Post by: imsaguy on January 13, 2012, 02:48:37 PM Hi Pirateat40 I have some questions. I thought I should ask them publicly so that entire community would benefit from your answers. (1) I love the idea of making 1% a day. It is great. Just too good. We have all been cautioned growing up that "too good to be true" means .... I probably just need to sit down and find out some concrete questions for you. (2) You seem to have a great business that needs a storage of btc, to keep operating. For this store of btc, you are paying out 40 times what you borrow per year. (1% per year means some 4000% annualized.). If I were to borrow $100, why would I want to pay out $4000 in a year back? Wouldn't it be cheaper to borrow the same $100 from a bank, and pay them, say, $108 at the end instead of $4000? That is, why not borrow the moeny from a bank instead of us? Why not use that money to buy some btc for your btc storage? Surely, I'm misunderstanding something. I would appreciate a clarification. (3) You indicated that you sell these btc to local people. What local person has such a continual and huge demand for btc that even the overheads (your reserves) exceed thousands of btc? I'm sure your bank is not a ponzi scheme where you'd pay person 1's interest using person 2's deposit. I'm sure I misunderstand something. I know you are a senior member of your community, and have excellent ratings. I would appreciate your clarifying my doubts to me. I guess, mainly, question (2), and perhaps (3). Thanks very much, and sincerely deego -- Ok, I'm gonna jump in.. 1) Isn't a question. 2) Banks want all sorts of documentation. "Why do you want the money?", "How are you going to use the money?", "How are you going to secure the money?" Generally speaking, banks don't want to loan you the money unless you don't need the money. Could you imagine the looks the bank would give if he said he wanted to borrow $10k or whatever to use to make a bitcoin business? It'd be the same question your wife/girlfriend/significant other asks you.. "Why are you playing with that silly play money?" 3) Have you ever done large scale mining? Do you know how hard it is to regularly dispose of large quantities of btc without getting screwed? If you live in a population center that's large enough, you can find regular buyers that will meet you in person and pay so you don't get screwed by all the different reversal methods popular on electronic transfer sites. Pirate might very well buy those coins from large scale miners, charge a fee because he's making it easy for them, and then sell to other people. The people he sells to might be people sending money to other countries because there's fewer fees when switching from USD->BTC->Eur or rather than wiring money home to Mexico via Western Union, they are using BTC. There are many possibilities. If he reveals too much, he reveals the secret sauce and then other could clone his business and cut into his profits. Title: Re: Question for First Pirate Savings and Trust Post by: finway on January 13, 2012, 02:59:28 PM These are my questions too, "too good to be true".
Waiting for pirateat40's answer. Title: Re: Question for First Pirate Savings and Trust Post by: chungenhung on January 13, 2012, 03:09:29 PM Let me jump in
Question 1: Too good to be true is all fake? Do you remember when bitcoin was taking off and climbing to $30? To a regular person, that is too good to be true, and yet, IT IS TRUE. I told all the people I know to buy mining machines, and nobody believe me. In the end, I got 7 free rigs, and they got nothing. Remember, no risk = no reward. If you think this is too risky for you, then you shouldn't join. But if in the end pirate turned out to be 100% legit and gave back all the funds, those people that invested would grow 100BTC to say 50,000BTC. Question 2: By using BTC in all transactions, pirate will be protected against wild exchange rate swings. Imaging he borrow $1000 to buy 100 BTC at $10/BTC on MtGox. He then sold 50BTC for $250, and another 50BTC unsold because a buyer backs out. Then, the BTC price plummets to $5/BTC. He then exchange 50BTC back for only $250. He can't pay a $1000 loan from the bank with $500 + $250. If you borrow in BTC, pay back in BTC, you could care less how much BTC price swings. Title: Re: Question for First Pirate Savings and Trust Post by: jamesg on January 13, 2012, 03:10:31 PM I think the answer is simple enough. If you think it's too good to be true, go somewhere else to lend your bitcoins.
The only reason you have made this post is because you want to give in to your greed and lend him money if it opens up again. Title: Re: Question for First Pirate Savings and Trust Post by: chungenhung on January 13, 2012, 03:14:46 PM I think the answer is simple enough. If you think it's too good to be true, go somewhere else to lend your bitcoins. Totally agree. Too good to be true? then move on.The only reason you have made this post is because you want to give in to your greed and lend him money if it opens up again. I once offered to pay $10,000 to my friend, just for scanning a piece of paper. Nothing illegal whatsoever, and he got the paper and would probably take him 2 minutes to do it. He thinks it is too good to be true, and never scanned it. Title: Re: Question for First Pirate Savings and Trust Post by: copumpkin on January 13, 2012, 03:15:48 PM If he reveals too much, he reveals the secret sauce and then other could clone his business and cut into his profits. Exactly. We aren't investors here, and he owes us no explanations of what he's doing to generate his high profits. If you don't like that, you can easily not lend to him, or withdraw your money if you're an existing lender. Perhaps pirateat40 will have a better answer than that, but in his original thread he already stated that he didn't want to answer questions about his arrangement, so I'm not sure how you expect a new thread asking questions again to change that, unless you just didn't read the original. Title: Re: Question for First Pirate Savings and Trust Post by: teek on January 13, 2012, 03:16:59 PM I'd bet he is facilitating trade in a market where bank loans are not an option, and the service he offers his clients comes at a premium because they (his clients) also don't have options.. other than shipping packages of hard currency.. read between the lines.. There is tons of money to be made moving money around..
Title: Re: Question for First Pirate Savings and Trust Post by: finway on January 13, 2012, 03:32:48 PM Why not borrow in USD ? Ponzi scheme, no doubt. ;)
Title: Re: Question for First Pirate Savings and Trust Post by: teek on January 13, 2012, 03:36:19 PM Why not borrow in USD ? Ponzi scheme, no doubt. ;) BTC *is* the business.. Title: Re: Question for First Pirate Savings and Trust Post by: imsaguy on January 13, 2012, 03:36:26 PM Why not borrow in USD ? Ponzi scheme, no doubt. ;) As already explain, BTC/USD is too volatile. It's better to price everything in BTC so loan balances vary with the exchange rate. Don't make accusations without evidence. Title: Re: Question for First Pirate Savings and Trust Post by: imsaguy on January 13, 2012, 03:37:31 PM I think the answer is simple enough. If you think it's too good to be true, go somewhere else to lend your bitcoins. The only reason you have made this post is because you want to give in to your greed and lend him money if it opens up again. "Current available space for the storage plan is: 765 BTC" It is open and I have sent a lot of coins myself. I trust Pirate but if he is willing to give out more info I will listen. Thanks. Probably because someone or multiple someones did a withdrawal. He's almost always at 0. Title: Re: Question for First Pirate Savings and Trust Post by: chungenhung on January 13, 2012, 03:53:38 PM Why not borrow in USD ? Ponzi scheme, no doubt. ;) As already explain, BTC/USD is too volatile. It's better to price everything in BTC so loan balances vary with the exchange rate. Don't make accusations without evidence. The beauty of BTC is..... the IRS don't know what the heck is BTC. Title: Re: Question for First Pirate Savings and Trust Post by: Turbor on January 13, 2012, 04:00:36 PM For me it was too much risk and not enough information. I like to know peoples names and some background info. It would be interesting to know how much is in the pot already. I don't think the store grews because of withrawls... Some people build up trust for many years and fuck you over when you expect it the least. Not saying Pirate will do it but anything is possible. For me and everyone i spoke with 1% per day is too good to be true.
Title: Re: Question for First Pirate Savings and Trust Post by: pirateat40 on January 13, 2012, 04:18:16 PM You all should be ashamed of yourselves. We didn't even get 50 posts this time before someone else jumps on the "What's going on eh?" boat.
I'm a pirate, if you don't like what you see, take your coins and walk the plank. This will be my last message on this thread. Enjoy :) Title: Re: Question for First Pirate Savings and Trust Post by: copumpkin on January 13, 2012, 05:28:12 PM -- 2) Banks want all sorts of documentation. "Why do you want the money?", "How are you going to use the money?", "How are you going to secure the money?" Generally speaking, banks don't want to loan you the money unless you don't need the money. Could you imagine the looks the bank would give if he said he wanted to borrow $10k or whatever to use to make a bitcoin business? It'd be the same question your wife/girlfriend/significant other asks you.. "Why are you playing with that silly play money?" Imsaguy, fair enough. But, you'd figure someone who seems to deal in buttloads of cold hard cash would have "friends" who would be very happy to loan him $20k for a "giant 50%" yearly interest. A 50% that is much cheaper than the 4000% currently being offered. A 50% that is much cheaper even if he ignores his fluctuating needs for storage space and doesn't pay back for 5 years. So, are we saying that the need to avoid btcusd price fluctuation explain the remaining difference, the difference of 3950%? In-person "friends" of that sort who are willing to lend you those quantities of under-the-table cash with no obvious collateral typically demand interest rates in the ballpark of what pirateat40 is offering, and furthermore start forcibly taking your family and limbs as "collateral" if anything goes wrong. Perhaps he could get better interest from that sort of person, but as much as I joke about having thugs with baseball bats, this sort of business is a lot more pleasant for a borrower. Title: Re: Question for First Pirate Savings and Trust Post by: imsaguy on January 13, 2012, 05:31:02 PM -- 2) Banks want all sorts of documentation. "Why do you want the money?", "How are you going to use the money?", "How are you going to secure the money?" Generally speaking, banks don't want to loan you the money unless you don't need the money. Could you imagine the looks the bank would give if he said he wanted to borrow $10k or whatever to use to make a bitcoin business? It'd be the same question your wife/girlfriend/significant other asks you.. "Why are you playing with that silly play money?" Imsaguy, fair enough. But, you'd figure someone who seems to deal in buttloads of cold hard cash would have "friends" who would be very happy to loan him $20k for a "giant 50%" yearly interest. A 50% that is much cheaper than the 4000% currently being offered. A 50% that is much cheaper even if he ignores his fluctuating needs for storage space and doesn't pay back for 5 years. So, are we saying that the need to avoid btcusd price fluctuation explain the remaining difference, the difference of 3950%? When I first started loaning to pirate, it was $1-$3. We're now over $6 and who knows how high it could go next month. 3950% isn't that crazy when you start figuring in all that. Title: Re: Question for First Pirate Savings and Trust Post by: Maged on January 13, 2012, 05:46:00 PM (2) You seem to have a great business that needs a storage of btc, to keep operating. For this store of btc, you are paying out 40 times what you borrow per year. (1% per year means some 4000% annualized.). If I were to borrow $100, why would I want to pay out $4000 in a year back? Wouldn't it be cheaper to borrow the same $100 from a bank, and pay them, say, $108 at the end instead of $4000? Put even more plainly than everyone else: no bank makes loans in BTC. If one existed (that could actually meet his demand), I'm sure he would have just used it.That is, why not borrow the moeny from a bank instead of us? Why not use that money to buy some btc for your btc storage? Surely, I'm misunderstanding something. I would appreciate a clarification. Title: Re: Question for First Pirate Savings and Trust Post by: imsaguy on January 13, 2012, 05:48:19 PM Put even more plainly than everyone else: no bank makes loans in BTC. If one existed (that could actually meet his demand), I'm sure he would have just used it. +1 Title: Re: Question for First Pirate Savings and Trust Post by: Turbor on January 13, 2012, 05:56:28 PM If he's an early adopter he could manipulate the market. With 200k $ you do what you want, with 500k you're god. OMG i think he's the BITCOIN MANIPULATOR ;D ;)
Title: Re: Question for First Pirate Savings and Trust Post by: notme on January 13, 2012, 06:41:20 PM First of all, even IF you reinvest all interest payments (many don't) it's closer to 3500% as he only compounds every 3 days. For many of his clients, it's only 365% interest. Borrowing USD to buy BTC is risky. Consider the following situation:
Step 1. Borrow $20k from a friend. Promise $30k Step 2. Invest in about 3000 BTC @ $6.5 Step 3. BTC returns to $2 Step 4. Turn $6000 into $30k to pay back your friend In an entirely plausible situation, you're 50% loan has just ballooned into a 500% loan, worse than many of the loans P@40 has already. 5% on a currency conversion is not unheard of, even for legit business. It seems very likely to me that he could easily make 1% daily on his money. I only offer this information because I beat you to the punch so their's no way you can knock me off the list :-P. |