Bitcoin Forum

This has been bugging me to no end.

Investors require personal information of the business during IPO.. If the business is in the US, then it is already breaking the SEC laws. Do investors know this?

Yes. Which is why investing in bitcoin stocks is so shitty.

You only have two options:

A. Invest in anonymous company which will run away with the coins.

Or

B. Invest in company with names and wait for the SEC to shut them down.

Just because names are given doesn't mean they won't scam you. Even if it isn't a scam - most businesses fail. I wouldnt invest into anything unless the return promised was large enough for the gamble.

Many of us aren't in the US. Those that are in the US are seeking ways of compliance with the SEC laws.

I wrote a blog post on this to answer your question. (http://blog.spagni.net/posts/2014-04-28/)

A name gives you some hope to go after them when they turn out to screw you over. If it's a real name you can probably even do some damage to their reputation after the shit goes down.

I read your blog post. That doesn't answer the question regarding the laws in the US.

It answers the question you asked in the title of this post regarding why investors demand personal info. We aren't breaking the law demanding that information, and we aren't responsible for SEC compliance on their behalf. Which is why there's (thankfully) plenty of non-US businesses to invest in:)

If you're in the US, you may want to consider joining all the bright people that are getting out (http://bitcoinpete.com/2014/04/26/exodus-from-egypt/).

I've been thinking about exiting for a long time now :) But where to?

Depends on your situation...if you have the ability to move and start something then European countries that are pro-English are good, as is Hong Kong, Australia, and South Africa. If you have to move and work first, then it depends on the education and skillset you have and where you can find work:)

It's not a total fear from ones safety thats driving my wanting to leave the US - but a mixture of that and coming to terms with the realization that the US is by far the largest evil that exists today. This isnt a game of starcraft where you expand and attack.. We're all human and most of us want peace and harmony.

And then after you choose one of these options, you are betting that the stock gives a greater return than if you just held BTC, which historically has not been the case for many.

This really only leaves opportunity for day-traders, or for potential s-c-c-c-cammers.

I'll be honest with you:

I'm not an investor; i am someone looking for investment. But if i were an investor, I would place it in the following:

1) The Project in question. Will it make money? Is it a great idea?

2) The project's management. Will they get it done?

For me it is a more of a percentage game than anything else.

I disagree. I think there's also scope for:

- Investors who are short on Bitcoin
- Investors looking to diversify their cryptocurrency holdings
- Fiat investors who don't want to hold crypto, but want to invest in Bitcoin-based or Bitcoin-involved businesses
- Fiat investors who don't care about crypto, want to invest in a company, and are happy to to use Bitcoin as a medium of exchange when investing and when earning dividends

That attitude changes after a couple of bad investments or after observing the large number of outright scams and inept management teams here.

Where have you lived OP, other than US?

Re. knowing the identity of the people you send money to:  It helps sometimes.

I've always lived in the US.

But... it's "the largest evil"?  To plagiarize Voltaire, "compared to what?"

I guess we're talking about different types of investors. As far as the scams/inept management goes - it's not just here on bitcointalk (its everywhere)

I'm an investor with plenty to invest.

But nearly every single thing out there is garbage.  So almost nothing touches my money.  Even if it looks mildly legitimate, I probably won't put a dime into it.  For me to want to put money in it I have to be convinced that the risk of scam & getting goxxed is very low while site profitability makes sense on both the investors/owners ends.

So short story is, your question is kind of ridiculous.  Bitcoin is fairly high risk. Investing in a bitcoin company is higher risk.  If you are ok with that, then go ahead and put it in the best place, if you aren't, then don't.  The market will naturally mature in the mean time if its meant to or it will decay.  The larger profitability and risk will be present in the earlier markets.

It's the largest for a number of reasons. 1, because it so happens to be the biggest bully in the playground. Installing dictators, over-throwing democracies..wars for profit..

As for 2, .. well simply it's because I pay taxes into this system, and so I feel like I am sort of an accomplice. I can't talk about other nations, because I am from the US.

1. We'll probably be talking soon, then.

2. Call it ridiculous if you want, but if you've already invested into bitcoin - maybe investing into something that potentially  increases your bitcoins is not such a bad idea (in theory)

Well, yes and no.  The sort of scamming and ~95% fail rate was getting to be a thing on IRL exchanges, and that's what brought about regulation.  Now NYSE has a somewhat smaller percentage of outright scams.

Key word: potentially

Here in the bitcoin world that means you are almost guaranteed to lose your coins.

If you don't own the private keys, you don't own the coins.

Wars have always been fought for profit, even the Crusades.  Also, what democracy has US overthrown lately?

As far as being an accomplice, sure.  There was a guy once who ranted about sharing and loving your neighbor, but he got nailed to a big cross, so that sort-a fizzled.  Great idea, capable d00d, didn't work out.  Might of helped if they knew his personal info, but that's a whole different debate :-\

Anyhow, taxes are unpleasant, but that's what mankind came up with instead to help us plod along.  It ain't that bad, OP, you'll get used to it.

True, if you're a fish sitting down at a poker table in a casino.. If you're there for profit, odds are greatly agains't you. Inexperience doesn't pay well, atleast short term :)

*IF* you can find a Bitcoin business (going back to my blog post from today (http://blog.spagni.net/posts/2014-04-28/)) that will increase your Bitcoins, then it's an awesome deal.

The reality is that for a "Bitcoin business" to truly be a "Bitcoin business" they need to have very few fiat overheads. 99.9% of the businesses that think they're "Bitcoin businesses" really aren't. The investors would do better off (from a fiat perspective) just holding their coins, and they wouldn't run the risk of losing them through goxxing/ineptitude/etc.

https://wikispooks.com/wiki/US_Efforts_to_Suppress_Democracy_since_1945

As for the d00d nailed to the cross: wasn't that his plan?

It's not the paying of the taxes that makes me want to leave.. hell if that was the case I would follow the footsteps of the 1% and use the numerous tax havens and stay in the US. It's the "contributing to a system that I am agains't"

Yes, I agree.. The best businesses are the ones that operate on a huge profit margin.

OP. thanks for that link.  Very powerful stuff.  Here's one for you, since we're laying facts on each other:    http://www.angels-heaven.org/

If you feel strongly about not contributing to wars and shit, here are some options:

1.  Leave US.
2.  Stop working, and thereby paying taxes.
3.  Type about how much you hate war (and other things you feel guilty about) in the intertubes. <==Make sure to do it on a forum about money, that's the best place to do it!
4.  Start a revolution :)

Sorry but I have zero interest in investing in anything mining.  I just came in to comment and offer advice.  I'm already committed to the things I am interested in with a loose eye for other things out there but they have to be really good to win me over (again, which this idea is not).

If I was interested in mining, I would just do it myself.  Total profit share + total control of the coins.  But that isn't the case for me at all.

Spot on. I've been saying this for a while, but with few exceptions (eg. ASICMINER) mining is only profitable from a fiat perspective. Also, any savvy investor who wanted to "get in" to mining would just partner up with (or even employee) a domain expert. They wouldn't throw Bitcoin at randoms on the Internet.

You guys assume too much.