Bitcoin Forum

I saw this over on reddit: (I can't even wrap my head around jumping behind the NXT asset exchange, talk about exposure!)

[–]WishingUponWhiskey 2 points 9 hours ago
You have previously mentioned in a interview with Forbes that you are very intersted in a "Bitcoin version of the stock market" and having the ability to conduct more than just simple transactions via a blockchain.
NXT - the first second generation cryptocurrency is doing this with it's new features being launched in the upcoming weeks and months. Have you looked into it and / or considered accepting it for overstock?
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PatrickByrneOverstoc 11 points 8 hours ago
I am a bit confused about what you are asking. My fight with Wall Street came about because I became convinced in 2004 that the market's mechanisms for clearing and settling trades had been corrupted by bad elements. It all started there. Hence, the peer-to-peer aspect of Bitcoin et. al. deeply attracats me.
I do not know NXT, but I am interested in finding (and even potentially investing in) efforts to create a peer-to-peer capital market. In fact, if a good solution emerges, you might even see Overstock be the first issuer of a stock or bond in such a market, just to help things get going! (Incidentally, we were the first to do a Dutch auction IPO, for precisely that reason.)
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WishingUponWhiskey 3 points 8 hours ago
The solution that you are requesting is exactly what the NXT decentralized Asset Exchange is all about (it launches in 10 days).
Here is a link to a comprehensive article explaining the NXT Asset Exchange
If you are interested in learning more you can learn more at http://mynxt.org or contact me at nxtorganizer@gmail.com
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PatrickByrneOverstoc 9 points 8 hours ago
Contact me about this.
Patrick@overstock.com
(RHIP)


That Patrick Byrne seems like a pretty smart guy!

The idea of a decentralized platform is something that could very well be as big as bitcoin, the idea is so revolutionary that I think it will become bitcoin 2.0. No need for a third party for anything ever online... not just financial transactions... can you imagine that?

Let's see if Nxt will be the one to deliver it with, starting with their Asset Exchange. Nobody in their right mind should still be trading on traditional exchanges when Nxt AE comes out in 5 days.

Overstock coming in is just the first step... every business with a little business of vision will jump in once this goes mainstream.

By the way, Nxt has been in contact with Overstock CEO.

Hasn't Ripple already done this? You guys are a little slowwww  :-*

What exactly has Ripple done?

Kind of a misleading title.  You ran an ambush to try and advertise NXT to someone that doesn't know what it is.

Real topic should be, "Patrick Byrnes has no idea what the hell NXT is"

Is it true ? If no, I'll buy some . Don't want to miss Bitcoin2.0!

The NXT Asset Exchange together with the multigateways and the Digital Goods Store will be a total game changer.

Let's see this in 5months, but i am really optimistic, Patrick Byrne will be the first of a large queue.

First of all we need more volume and transactions for NXT.

This coins should be used somewhere

Create a P2P decentralized capital market.

Actually it is in operation RIGHT NOW and has been working for over a year now.

Hasn't Ripple already done this? You guys are a little slowwww  Kiss

There are 3 already http://chromawallet.com/  http://www.mastercoin.org/ https://www.counterparty.co/  with stocks and securities issued.


NXT is the biggest hyped joke of all. Low quality code. Very insecure and this guy http://87.230.14.1/nxt/nxt.cgi?action=3000&acc=4747512364439223888 mined  23298 out of total 127960 blocks. Cryptos used to be about decentralization and now people buy whatever. Cryptos centralized, checkpointing etc. Nobody is thinking anymore This is a complete joke premined public ledger luring noobs. Dont forget that majority of coins are cornered. (71 individuals bought the entire stake for 21 btc)

The fact that mastercoin and XCP asset exchanges didnt take the world by storm is obvious. The 10+ minute blocktime. You simple cant trade cryptos at that time frame.

Now, without waiting for 1000TPS in Nxt crypto platform, Nxt can right now, immediately start pushing the FASTEST Decentralized Asset Exchange. 10 times faster in fact.

So, NXT AE is 10 times faster than the competition and it will be getting multisig protected crypto assets AND it will be getting even faster.

NXT has the most man years of development of any crypto other than BTC. This will continue.The crypto's value is best measured by the number of developers. And that's why Nxt is the most promising cryptocurrency that ever existed

~1000 people has about 50% of all bitcoins.

1) Has nothing to do with the discussion
2) Citation? We dont know that
3) Even if it is true it doesnt undermine bitcoin security and decentralization of the mining network
4) Is still not a reason to promote junk coins like NXT

If you buy 90% of all nxt's, security and mining (forging) will be fine.
NXT has many features and more perspective than other 99% altcoins.

Yeah right how is that? I buy them I split them into multiple wallets. Try forever until I get a couple of blocks to "forge" in a sequence which is known so I can perfectly plan this in advance. Double spend them on all exchanges and bankrupt them. Ohhh I forgot there is a centralized checkpointing system. You are right I cant do that even with 90% of the coins with the centralized check pointing "invention". NXT is the most unsecured shit.

LOL.  You might not want to get confused with Peercoin.

centralized checkpoints are problem of Peercoin or Blackcoin, but Nxt solved this:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BwAGADgnQcrtM3g1cU1VSHZtTGM/edit?usp=sharing
- see pages 17 and 20

Care to explain if I own 90% of the coins split them into thousands of accounts or whatever the optimal number is I will not get forge a couple of blocks to double spend big on exchanges? From what I read it is also transparent so I can plan in advance any attack.

That one gave you away as FUD spreader  :D

Can you even read java?

jean-luc et al. turned Nxt's code into a very clean, high quality software.

Where are the unit tests? Where are the comments? Where where....

+1

+1440  Great comment.  Yep, I recognized this from day one.  Back in Dec. when I first saw Nxt's community and development, I knew it was different and was likely going to be a game changer.  All these fools buying into these hyped coins like Blackcoin are literally just buying a nice logo.  I just wish Nxt could shake away all these FUDsters.

Ripple is not decentralized. It is distributed.

Comments? Have you ever read Clean Code? http://www.amazon.de/Clean-Code-Handbook-Software-Craftsmanship/dp/0132350882

There is so much FUD. Because people don't know what NXT is. They just shout something without any good argument.

Purple nurple is clearly uneducated when it comes to NXT. Dont worry though he clearly has his guard up for some reason. Purple needs to take a bit of time to understand NXT. i know this because he still thinks NXT is poorly distributed lmao. He couldnt be further from the truthm NXT currently has brilliant distribution and continies to do so each and every day topping bters top spot for volumes. but heck what do i know its not like ive witnessed every thing that has gone on since last november.

v nice,oh :)

Depends on which part you look at and how you exactly define these terms. In the sense of "market place" it is definitely decentralized in the sense that anyone can issue any asset without asking for anyone's permission and trade that freely.

This remark must have got stuck in bitcointalk's timewarp tunnel from January.

ThePurplePlanet is therefore hereby nominated as the thread's "Dalek in Residence'...

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/841/dck8.png (https://imageshack.com/i/nddck8p)

How fast are NXT transaction speeds?

I am seeing mixed information. Ripple network transactions clear/confirm in about 5 seconds, and that includes distributed exchange and cross-currency payment.

Ripple Labs also has a fleet of top notch talent, spanning code and business development, backing both the protocol and network. And... they even have an award winning economist on the board, as well as having been highlighted as a potential ACH payment alternative---from individuals of diverse interests, spanning between the W3C and St. Louis Fed. Also, before I forget, here are the investors (https://www.ripplelabs.com/investors/) and startup incubator (http://www.crosscoinventures.com/).

LoL. I like the "award winning economist" bit. If you'd wanted to kill your brand stone dead you'd have made a good attempt at it with that bit of PR right there  ;)

Thankfully, apart from the "top notch talent", NXT doesn't have any of this crap which is why it's becoming so popular.

It is an organically grown network from the ground up which engenders participation and stakeholdership from all who care to contribute. Despite that, it has a well co-ordinated and productive developer core who have consistently delivered results according to "roadmaps" from months ago.

Not an easy thing to do.

NXT transaction are confirmed within 1 minute on average. Faster is more insecure in a really decentralized manner.

That is why Ripple has 5 seconds confirmations; it is not decentralized.

Well, I run a Ripple server and anyone is free to do so as well - Ripple uses https://ripple.com/wiki/Consensus, not PoS (?) as NXT, so it is very much able to have faster confirmations, it simply uses a different technology.

All of these networks and technologies have massive potential. As far as "2nd gen's" go, there isn't going to be one which "wins" and others which "loose". Currencies - maybe - but once we're into the realm of things like network services and asset exchanges your talking about sectors which require and accommodate diversity.

This is just the start - there will surely be a growth industry around this type of technology and everyone will have their "Overtstock" moments.

Agreed. I think this is a rare and healthy perspective in the community. At this point, I am doubtful there will ever be a winner-takes-all cryptocurrency. Next generation systems that support external currencies are an interesting space. I love seeing all of the emerging competition, and feel that the new next gen multi-currency systems have a lot to offer here. It is great seeing NXT available on the Ripple network.

I am glad this didn't turn into a Ripple vs. Nxt flame war as I was afraid it might.
Although I also had to snigger when ThePurplePlanet emerged from his time warp. :D

At this point, friendly competition seems a much better idea. Spurring each other along and coming up with multiple solutions to a problem is good, and there is no "winner" or "loser".

It's very very early days yet for ALL 2nd Gens, and there will be pitfalls for us all. I have no doubt about that. :)

The world really is crazy, changing too fast .

Agreed. Nxt is a step backward.

Exactly.  But this won't happen unless the 70+ initial investors open up their purse. 

Ahh, so you agree with FUD and stuff that is just plain untrue.  I'll make sure I never listen to your advise in the future, thanks.

That is your prerogative. I have tried Nxt myself, I just didn't find anything to like about it. Has the ridiculous 1 Nxt minimum transaction fee been eliminated at least?

It will be removed. First, we need to pass 132K to be able to split 1NXT into many NXTQUANTs. After that, we can adjust the fees.

The fees are too high and are only benefiting the first few investors. It's difficult to see Nxt as anything more than a pyramid scheme. Widespread initial distribution of pure PoS coins remains a problem.

So we have Nxt, where I proofed that 40% of all existing NXT were redistributed just in first month:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AgAGADgnQcrtdHRrV3V3Z1lzOXVEMWtqdElUaEtqV1E#gid=13

And Bitcoin, where only 22% of all existing Bitcoins were redistributed during first 4 years:
http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2012/10/78-percent-of-bitcoin-currency-stashed-under-digital-mattress-study-finds/

No it doesn't. You just buy it at the going rate. End of problem.

Thats what I did.

I don't buy the idea that you're alluding to that "initial distribution" is an issue for NXT or any other POS currency - at least not an insurmountable one. There have been as many advantages to having some big initial accounts as disadvantages. For example, the coin got off the ground for a start which it probably wouldn't have otherwise. Secondly, the development effort was capitalised by much of the initial issue and this has lead to things happening on time and more or less according to the specifications envisaged at the outset.

As a previous poster remarked, NXT is now becoming spread out - at least as successfully as some other established cryptos. And anyway, if your that worried about initial distribution you shouldn't be in cryptos at all or any widely investment for that matter. The asset can end up in a few people's hands even though it doesn't start out that way and vica versa.

What matters is how much you've got, not what everyone else has got.

yes i agree, misleading title

Yes it does. I prefer PoW/PoS hybrids because imo PoW is likely to result in wider distribution than initial PoS. Nxt is a horrible investment for new investors imo because forged transaction fees go to the large initial accounts. This is unlike a typical PoS model where someone can at any point invest and almost immediately see a return. I have no financial stake in Nxt's success or failure. I tried it and found it lacking.

I thought the point of NXT was the asset exchange and the scripting language they're building etc. There's no money to be made from forging for the average person, but I don't think that's the point. There's no money to be made from opening my web browser and leaving it running all day either, but it doesn't cost anything 'extra', and I can use my web browser to complete useful tasks.

NXT looks like being very 'useful' one day, and it's relatively cheap, so once those useful features have been included people will buy more NXT TO DO THINGS, not to forge. Pointless expensive POW calculations are an endangered species in a world where energy use is under the spotlight. I'll have the NXT client open all day because I'll be using the exchange, and it won't cost me any extra power, but my actions will still help secure the NXT network. Brilliant idea - make a crypto client 'useful', actually do something and not just burn electricity 24/7 for nothing.

NXT is a completely different model. I think many people are still missing the fundamental aspects of NXT. The distribution of NXT will naturally follow the addition of useful services on NXT, and that starts very soon.

I've even read that NXT will have games built on top it, so people will be running the NXT client while they're playing a game. As long as people think of the piddling forging amounts they're going to miss the NXT train. At 2 cents each, it's still cheap to buy a ticket.

Agreed. So why would I invest in it when I can invest in something that will pay ME. I have no incentive to enrich the first few Nxt investors. That is not the case with any of the better PoS coins.

Why invest in a postage stamp? Because you can use it to send a letter. Most crypto currencies are just tokens that can't be used for anything. You can buy things with bitcoin, but not much with any of the others.

Why invest in NXT?
-Because you can list an asset on their exchange
-Because you might want to play a NXT game and buy some in-game features
-Because you want to use the NXT digital goods store to buy something
etc etc

One reason right now why you should consider investing in NXT is the price looks to be going up a lot higher very soon once all these features are finished, but for me it's because POW coins don't do anything. Primecoin calculates prime numbers, which is cool, but NXT actually does things, and that's good for crypto currencies in general.


I like POS coins like hobo & TEK and philospherstones, but NXT takes crypto to a whole new level.

Don't see this next level thing at all...unless you meant next level of pyramid scam? The wallet seems clunky and amateurish. The problem with this pyramid design is the original investors didn't allow any incentive for new investors to make anything at all on their investment.

I don't get the mindset that has accepted bitcoin isn't a pyramid scam, and can accept its high concentration of ownership amongst a few hundred people, but those same people KNOW that NXT must be a scam, and so isn't worth a risk at 2 cents.

New investors at 2 cents can expect a  good chance of massive price increase, and the fact that all 1 billion NXT exist now, so there's no inflation, makes price increase over time a near certainty with all the useful features that will run on NXT. Present marketcap of 22 million USD. In 2 years NXT marketcap will be somewhere between 1-5 billion, at least.

Wallet is clunky for sure, but that's changing now too. The latest version release wallet is far better than anything I've seen, and it will soon include the asset exchange too, so it's a wallet and an interface for the exchange at the same time, so you could buy/sell bitcoin, doge, peercoin etc all from inside the NXT wallet interface.

Can you play a game over the bitcoin network? Can you run an ebay site on bitcoin? These type of services are being coded right now. Useful things have value, and NXT is going to be useful.

The problem I think is many people focus on the 73 people who got lucky, and they feel envy, and that clouds their thinking. NXT has very good tech & a growing user base, and it's dirt cheap at 2 cents each.

The "...but bitcoin blah blah" argument is real thin. It's not 2009 anymore. Bitcoin is the center of the crypto universe and without it we wouldn't be discussing Next's poor distribution. I can't change the events of 2009, but I can make decisions about fledgling altcoins today. My opinion on Next is that it's a poor investment with little incentive to compel someone to swap their bitcoin for it.

I see your points, maybe you will feel comfortable to swap your bitcoins for Nxt clones with "fair" distribution. There are already quite a few of them. They copy the code from Nxt, so they have the same functions as Nxt which are much more advanced than those in bitcoin. The clones have a bright future according to your arguments.  :D

Heard about attack of the clones and all this allegedly advanced utility. I eventually get around to looking at each altcoin. The "bitcoin 2.0 super mega ultra deluxe new and improved" thing gets old. I don't need my cryptos to make my breakfast or provide me with hookers and blow contacts.

And the "unfair" of the capitalization has been exist for a very long time, we should have got it right long before 2009. It's really too bad we didn't.

well, a lot of things are not necessary. many people live a good life in small villages without internet access.

Then don't buy now. Buy a couple of months later with other fudsters and trolls when the price is x10 from now and rising.

Amazing news. Finally real world whales turn their looks into future of cryptocurrencies. Go Nxt.

Pretty sure Blackcoin removed checkpoints.  I think Whitecoin is going to try decentralized checkpoints and leverage pruning off of that.

Still the NXT fanbois didnt answer the most important security question regarding security. if I own a bunch of coins split them into many accounts I will wait until I get a sequence of 10 blocks and doublespend. Anyone can do it. The less coins you have the more you wait for the stars to align. This means that there is no cost to double spending unlike POW that if you try for a period of time you spend so much money on hardware and electricity that it is more profitable to be honest. NXT is not a solution to the byzantine generals problem and probably is the worst proposal out there from the PoS side. I like the idea of PoS but I m looking for a secure method that introduces cost to double spenders.

I missed the 2009 bitcoin train....and so did thousands of new (post-2013 to present) crytpo-addicts looking for an investment train to ride. It's important to consider that so much of the 2013 rise of bitcoin was social, regardless of the technical flaws that even bitcoin, yes holy bitcoin, can not avoid. I will not underestimate the power of social movement and NXT is drawing a LOT of attention.

Ripple provides a place for me to buy and sell btc IOU's and/or iou's for virtually anything.
How often do I need that service?
Almost never.

All the FuD still comes from people who don't understand NXT.

I can't blame them. New technology is often threathening to the previous succes like Bitcoin.

I follow NXT since december. And since then I have read all these negative comments you wrote her 50 times now. It has been answered by the developers of NXT.

In the meantime. NXT is getting stronger en stronger every day. No matter how much you try to spread FUD. They will improve.

NXT has not finished developing yet. So don't talk about features of NXT that aren't implemented yet. Right now, we have a client where you can see your balance and you can forge.

Come back in two months and see a totally different NXT. But you will already be too late to buy in. Because YOU don't know what the devs are working on right now.

And I'm not going to tell you what they are working on. Find out yourself =)

NXT is still relatively young, give it a year and you will see wonders!

All the fud still comes from Jr.Member accounts tops. Mostly form Newbies. So basically it's just some noobs who just go through the forum and post fud to every other coin: "scamcoin", "shittycoin" and so on.

No, that's BS.  I personally have a dislike for NXT because I think it too closely resembles "The Creature from Jekyll Island".

It's not like I'm broke and can't buy some.  I just think it's origin is likely to make it a non-starter for the world at large.

Ok, and what's your problem with Nxt. It's the most advanced coin out there at the moment. Nothing even close is good enough to compare with Nxt.

There are Qora and eXo going to be launched soon and a couple of similar to Nxt coins: NEM and NXTL but all those coins are being developed buy just a few devs. Nxt community is huge with lots and lots geniuos at their fields people that work on tens of projects based on Nxt. You might not realise scale of Nxt.

Read this, for instance https://nxtforum.org/alias-system/separating-out-account-aliases-into-a-different-transaction-type/msg7956/#msg7956
"I'm just one guy and I think I will end up with about a dozen services this year, just extrapolating what dozens of teams will be able to do."
That's what Nxt is. If you don't understand it, then you're missing something truly great.

From your signature:
https://primedice.com/modals/deposit.html
AKA: "deposit BTC here to be issued BTC.Primedice IOUs that you can use only in one centralized service for gambling"

The market for BTC IOU trade is a bit lower than 2 million BTC/month (http://bitcoincharts.com/markets/), for BTC on the block chain only about 5-10% of that (https://blockchain.info/charts/estimated-transaction-volume?daysAverageString=30) and that does even include transactions to and from BTC IOU issuers (= exchanges).

Pure fantasy. There is no way you are going to get 10 blocks in a row without spending millions of dollars on buying nxt  (perhaps billions of dollars since prices will increase if someone is buying that many nxt )  If we are playing these "what if" games, then what if I buy 90% of mining rigs -- then I will control all the bitcoins and double spend all I want,

Yeah, right.

Come back once you have 90% of Nxt, then I will take your "what ifs" more seriously.
 

I have some Nxt, so let's hope it will grow :)

That is certainly a problem.

However, it is not a problem of Nxt. It is a problem of those narrow-minded "investors" that only strive to pull out profit from it and nothing else.

Let me put it that way:
 - if you only want get profit and then get out when investing, Nxt is the wrong place.
 - if you want to get profit AND by doing that honestly supporting a decentralized economy, Nxt is the right place.
 - if you want to get profit, to support a decentralized economy AND to contribute ideas, code and initiative, Nxt is definitely the right place.

Nxt is not only a coin but it is also plenty of more. We do Nxt not for ourselves but for all of the people. So, please, when discussing properties of Nxt, do it without that short-term-minded thinking.

Well done.

I wonder why people do not understand that easily that buying mining equipment or buying Nxt is actually the same. I needed to explain it here (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=560012.0) over and over again, nobody actually understood it. (Or my English is too bad)

Your english is good enough. People (not including trolls) are just lazy, they don't do their research and learn. They just put their doubt out and wait for others to feed them. If others do not (This happens a lot, it's really time consuming and frustrating, like CfB said, he cannot take care of every one who don't understand simple things) then they just claim it's a serious problem. Only when Nxt becomes mainstream and the price is high enough, they will think there is a reason and take their doubt only as their doubt not a fact.

After reading some posts across the forum about Nxt, I am really surprised that why I never heard someone complaining that people with more money in bank earn more bank interest and never met someone who dreams becoming rich only by earning the bank interest.

Someone said the creator of NXT actually has all of this coin as the 71 individual were not real people...

There are initial investors with their real name revealed, do some search.

Someone said the creator of Btc actually has all of this coin as the thousands individuals are not real people...

Fail argument, stupid member detected

Orly? So his bs is a solid point and my argument failed? Who is actually stupid then?

SELL, PEOPLE!

You fail to comprehend the point. You can pull an attack miultiple times even with 5%. In fact you can even pull an attack with any number of coins given enough time with NO cost for the attacker, unlike PoW is the point you dont comprehend.  

This account has 5% of NXT and forged http://87.230.14.1/nxt/nxt.cgi?action=3000&acc=4747512364439223888 23390 of 128719 blocks. He can split the account into multiple blocks and get very often many blocks in a row. I dont know why you cant see it.

Also, it will be extremely easy to pull Bitpay payments type of attacks that accept btc instantly. You can easily reverse an instant transaction with one confirmation.

I m tired arguing with fanbois. You like NXT fine. Just dont tout it as something revolutionary or as secure as PoW. It is just a public ledger. Not a solution to the byzantine generals problem. I stop here. Have fun.

You forgot to take your pills?

http://f5.s.qip.ru/FK151wIV.png

It's very cheap right now. I have doubled my Nxt investment with profits from shitcoins

I really love the website http://nxtcommunity.org

You can clearly see which features are coming up and on which block time

So you have losses on next to date and you've doubled down? Are you sure you're dumping the right coin?

I don't know about what he's dumping but he's certainly buying the right one. (At the right time).

On what do you base that assessment? All the stake he's going to get?(nope) The exchange rate has done nothing but fall, what's going to change that?

Buy low, sell high. Buy when everybody sells and sell when everybody buys. If you don't understand it, you've got no future in trading.

Nxt, Btc, Ltc, Qrk and all other coins are very cheap atm, they're falling since January so it's the right time to buy. Especially for Nxt and Btc.

That's not remotely correct.

The exchange rate started in the low thousand satoshis. Since then it's oscillated between 3000 and 12000 satoshis depending on fundamentals - i.e. whenever there's been a new phase announced in the NXT technology network then the price has gone up.

We are approaching just such a phase now, so the price has started to rise and the market depth has turned around to the upside.

That's what I base my statement on.

Odd. I'm looking at a cryptsy chart now that indicates it began at 9000 on or near it's first day of trading and it's never gotten back to those levels. It was falling faster then it is currently prior to the small bump in March. Perhaps that's what you're referring to?

It didn't trade on Cryptsy until mid March and at that point had just hit one of it's highs because of the launch of the new "Offspring" client wallet.

Prior to that it had traded at lows of 3000 Sats and even 1000 going back to December.

Furthermore, you might have had a point if the price declines had reflected fundamentals in the project, but they do not. They reflect the increase in liquidity that's now available at the lower levels which has allowed early holders to realise much of their holding which they were unable to do before. This is in fact major progress believe it or not since it's getting the currency "out there" in larger amounts and mitigates the "distribution problem" which NXT bashers never fail to remind people of.

I think that even if the price dropped another couple of thousand sats, it wouldn't affect many of the holders since they're more interested in product development than price speculation at the moment and that is more than meeting expectations right now.

Looks like it hit cryptsy on March 2 and is in a sustained downtrend ever since. There's not even any PoS available to partially make up some of those losses. An investor could have purchased HBN on the same day at 17.5k and have significant gains at this point PLUS lots of stake interest.

Yes. It's more or less been on a sustained downtrend since it hit Cryptsy on March 2nd.

That's not a problem in itself. The question is how do you account for it ?

I've accounted for it and I'm buying  ;)

We are not in control of the price dude

I am not worried about the future of NXT and I don't put money in it that I cannot afford to lose

If he splits the accounts (with each account having less nxt than one account with larger amount), he is going to forge less than what he is doing now. There was already statistical analysis on that in larger thread. If someone has link, post it please.

No, your argument is flawed. You can NOT forge more with exact same amount of total nxt if you split them. You have better chances of forging more blocks if all your nxt is in one forging account.

Go buy 5% of nxt (will cost you 1 million dollars -- if prices don't go up while you are buying that many nxt) then come back here showing the "attack". If you succeed, the prices will drop and you will lose your 1 million dollar investment. That's the problem with these "what if" scenarios. They are not practical.  People who have that much  at stake have an incentive to protect the network without any shenagginings. It's in their own best interest to protect the network.  That's why it's called proof of stake.  

Vertcoin has been saying PoS is not secure... but i think it all depends on what if .... PoW is not secure if there are too few miners.

He don't know what he was talking about.

One cannot attack Nxt that way even if he is unreasonable and do not care about the money.

Perfect crime. Spend several billion dollars, buy 90% of all coins and try to destory the currency. Maybe in ThePurplePlanet's Universe it sounds normal. Or maybe he should just take care of his mental health a little better.

it is possible with 90%+ (I mean after the transparent forging is fully implemented), it is impossible with 5%.

I lolled hard with your post, but i lolled because it is so true.

The title is so misleading it almost does more harm than good:
"NXT promoters desperate for attention! and willing to deceive!!"  :D

I also doubt whether one can buy up to 90%+ (or something close to 90%) even with plenty of money. There will be people who will not sell all of their stake no matter how much the bid is. Just think about that the difference between $0.1 billion and $10 billion is meaningless for most people, they just cannot spend so much.

ThePurplePlanet made the argument that you can perform a 51% attack with less than 51% of the stake, which seems to be true to me, as long as transparent forging is not yet implemented.

But the same goes for bitcoin, you can perform a 51% attack with only 5% of all hashing power IN THEORY, but you would have to get extremely lucky, thus it's not a practical attack.

Let's say ThePurplePlanet buys 5% of Nxt (price will skyrocket and this will cost him millions of dollars). Now he wants to doublespend on vircurex or bter or dgex. Bter and vircurex require 20 confirmations, and withdrawals on dgex are even checked manually after a longer period.

His chances of forging 20 blocks in a row are 0.05^20 or something like 0.00000000000000000000000095%, or am I mistaken? He'd have to wait a looooooong time till he succeeds.

If you think it is theoretically possible, please describe how, step by step precisely, be as specific as possible, don't use ambiguous or general text.

dude I'm on your side, I think it's not feasible. I used numbers, not general text.

Goal: forge 22 (20 is not enough i think, because first confirmation in Nxt counts as zero) blocks in a row and cheat vircurex. The attacker withholds his chain and spends Nxt on the main chain (not forged by him) AND on his own chain. After 20 confirmations, his transaction is confirmed on the main chain. He now reveals his secret chain, which is longer than the main chain. Thus, the main chain get's orphaned, and his secret chain is now the main chain. He spent the Nxt on 2 chains, both with 20 confirmations, both accepted on vircurex.

His chances of forging 1 block with 5% of stake is 0.05. His chance of forging 22 blocks in a row is 0.05^22. This is so low that he and his great-great-grandchildern will die before succeeding.

EDIT: Let's end the off topic soon.

With the same probability I could get so extremely lucky that Satoshi would send me his million coins.

UPD: Just in case, my address is 1HyvPpAnmLpg5zLnR9k5dUDQfzi8ENWAdi  :)

excatly  ;D or that I will be able to fly today

First, forge 20 blocks with 5% stake, the chance is 0.05^20, which will need 1/0.05^20 / 60 / 24 / 365.25 = 1.99*10^20 years, the age of the universe is 1.37*10^10 years, so that's 1.45*10^10 times of the age of the universe. I don't know how the universe is like when he finally forge 20 blocks in a row. But since we are talking the theoretical possibility, so let's just go on.

I don't know how you deduce that his secret chain will be longer than the main chain, you need explain this. and even he somehow get the main chain orphaned, the transaction is still there if it has not expired (exchanges can require the deadline is long enough) and will be confirmed again.

So, I don't see how he can double spend even theoretically.

absolutely right!


The time between blocks is probabilistic, right? It just averages on 800 blocks a day. So there's a chance that the main chain is sometimes growing slower than the chain of the attacker?

It's just a guess. Can you enlighten me?

Thinking about it, isn't there already a mechanism in place that prevents one from forging too fast on a fork? Thought I heard something about it in the past.

As said, I'm just playing devil's advocate here, I think Nxt is perfectly fine and secure.

I don't know the details how Nxt works currently, but when the transparent forging is fully implemented, the time between two blocks will be exactly 60s, so the secret chain cannot be longer than the main chain, and the main chain and the secret chain can also be differentiated easily by seeing how many stakes involved in forging. I also recall CfB once said about the TF that the attacker who skips his turn of forging on the main chain to forge a secret chain will be recorded on the blockchain and penalized, others will see that and refuse to accept his secret chain.

Agreed, with transparent forging it will be impossible to cheat. I think the devs will probably favor the approach that punishes an evil forger if he doesn't reveal a block after 60 seconds. As penalty, his forging power will be reduced to zero for a certain amount of time. Plus everybody will know the IP of the attacker.

" Bad elements" is rather hard to tell exactly what it is. At point when you can't say exactly what it is maybe someone is just paranoid. But bad elements are the transactions and regulation in wrong places while still keeping open holes in law for all kind of acctions that are just wrong.

NXT always were looking interesting but it is hard to see right now its important impact.

Did anyone contacted the CEO after AE has been succesfully lauched? Since it's working now he could actually see how great it is.

Ask uniqueorn at nxt forum. He is managing this stuff.

Thanks!

That's what I've found: "I've been in direct talks with them for days now, all I ask is that people stop speculating. The spreading of this has gone pretty far (articles popping up, our competitors discussing it etc.). We do not want to drive them away. I have already supplied them with all of the info and have continuous updates with them. I will let the community know once there is anything official."

https://nxtforum.org/general-discussion/price-speculation/msg18103/#msg18103 (https://nxtforum.org/general-discussion/price-speculation/msg18103/#msg18103)

"Byrne ends keynote with big news: "I'm exploring [listing Overstock] on a block chain kind of stock exchange."

https://twitter.com/coindesk/status/467233469857533952

Time will say it! Meanwhile Nxt is in third place and maybe jumping into second by the end of 2014. Let's give the time to make it clear.

actually Cointropolis is trying to remove DGS because it conflicts with some deal he's involved with.

-bm